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tsmall
03-31-2012, 01:42 AM
Or chronocrators. I've only just begun reading about their use, and from what I've read the broadest outlines only give the major planetary periods as occurring for everyone at the same age. Moon is the first, since I think by it's nature changes quickly, and so rules the first four years of life. Mercury has the next ten years, because it is the planet most associated with learning, reason, and speaking. Venus is next with 8 years, governing adolescence and physical maturation to the age of 22, followed by the Sun who gets 19 years, or early adulthood. I think perhaps the Sun gets this period because it is when most of us are really becoming "ourselves," and in the natal chart the Sun gives the best representation of the inner self. At 41, Mars takes over for fifteen years and the best description I have read of this is "unfortunate." Jupiter, planet of wisdom, gets the next twelve, bringing us to age sixty-nine when Saturn takes over. Some of what I've read says Saturn has us until death, while another view is that Saturn has us for 30 years. I imagine then that if we are fortunate, the cycle would repeat with the Moon beginning at age ninety-nine?

What I haven't yet seen is an example of a chart outline of each of these periods, and whether or not the condition of these planets in the natal chart will help to give an overview, with due consideration given to other predictive methods such as profections and solar returns (or even primary directions) of how the native can expect each planetary period to go.

As an example from my own chart, both Venus and Sun are in fall, but Mars is exalted. Would it be reasonable to think that the condition of each planet, as well as how it is aspected, would give clues as to what one could expect from each "age?"

JUPITERASC
03-31-2012, 02:29 AM
Two thousand years ago astrology was less "psychological" and more "predictive" and so the idea of Hellenistic astrology is that it is more of a predictive system used to determine events in the life of an individual – i.e. when they occur and how beneficial/detrimental the particular events may or may not be to the native.

The condition and meaning of each of the seven visible planets (i.e. Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn) in the natal chart is determined after thorough and exhaustive analysis. It takes time unless you have the assistance of modern software programs such as that provided by Curtis Manwaring who wrote software in consultation with Robert Schmidt at Project Hindsight that is available at http://www.astrology-x-files.com/


Rumen Kolev also provides some great software choices that reduce the considerable work load http://www.babylonianastrology.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1


Numerous timing procedures are utilised for the forecasting of events as signified by planets.

“Circumambulations” is used to demarcate sections of time in the native's life. Each period is governed by a different planet, known as a “time lord”, and effects during that period correspond to the condition and meaning of that “time lord” aka planet in the natal chart. The method has been compared to that of the Vedic dasha lords.

Zodiacal aphesis, decennials, quarters of the moon, profections, planetary periods and ascensions as well as solar returns are then used to get more detail on particular years/topics - their indications are always determined by the “time lords” established by “circumambulations” and cannot contradict those particular "time lords".

Transits are last on the list and considered solely within the context of beneficial or difficult periods already determined and/or established by the various time lords.


Some time ago on another thread I posted a link to a detailed explanation of Hellenistic style delineation by astrologer Maria Mateus which was originally recorded at The Blast Astrology Conference in 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O6xObhK6M:smile: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O6xObhK6M)

tsmall
03-31-2012, 02:39 AM
So it would seem that in order to truly be able to predict events, we would need to understand the natal chart as well as the several time lord periods and the planets activated before we can realistically use profections and solar returns to actually predict events? Without the use of one, the other two remain a guessing game? The difference, perhaps, between being able to suppose a bad time relating to a certain part of the native's life, and being able to say you will get married, or have a child, or something else particular?

JUPITERASC
03-31-2012, 02:49 AM
So it would seem that in order to truly be able to predict events, we would need to understand the natal chart as well as the several time lord periods and the planets activated before we can realistically use profections and solar returns to actually predict events? Without the use of one, the other two remain a guessing game? The difference, perhaps, between being able to suppose a bad time relating to a certain part of the native's life, and being able to say you will get married, or have a child, or something else particular?
Exactly. Hellenistic methods as understood two thousand years ago are not only detailed but also exhaustively thorough when correctly utilised - the Maria Mateus video is well worth listening to a few times to get some idea of the method. Having said that, Maria Mateus is an original thinker who adds her own personal style - nevertheless the approximately hour long video is full of useful information/insights that anyone can immediately begin to practice - otherwise there's the free Valens which I shall re-post for anyone who is unaware of its availability http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf :smile:

dr. farr
03-31-2012, 03:26 AM
It is the same in Vedic dasa systems: the quality of the time period is determined by the condition of the dominant planet (dasa lord, or "time lord") in the natal chart.
The Hellenist and later Persian (Islamic Persian) firdaria or "chronocrator" periods find their match in the various Vedic dasa systems; however, there are substantial differences between the time-periods accorded each planet in the Hellenist firdaria system vs the various Vedic dasa time-periods systems.

In the West, progressions, profections, transits, SR's, and firdaria have all developed as seperate discrete predictive methods; in Vedic astrology, dasa periods are incorporated along with transits and even SR's, into a unified approach where one technique checks and illuminates the other techniques used in the predictive work.

tsmall
03-31-2012, 03:35 AM
It is the same in Vedic dasa systems: the quality of the time period is determined by the condition of the dominant planet (dasa lord, or "time lord") in the natal chart.
The Hellenist and later Persian (Islamic Persian) firdaria or "chronocrator" periods find their match in the various Vedic dasa systems; however, there are substantial differences between the time-periods accorded each planet in the Hellenist firdaria system vs the various Vedic dasa time-periods systems.

In the West, progressions, profections, transits, SR's, and firdaria have all developed as seperate discrete predictive methods; in Vedic astrology, dasa periods are incorporated along with transits and even SR's, into a unified approach where one technique checks and illuminates the other techniques used in the predictive work.

Well, it's just my uneducated opinion, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me not to take a unified approach to predictions. Maybe that's why Vedic astrology has a much better reputation for being able to predict actual events? Not that the methods are better, but that there is in fact a unified approach?

JUPITERASC
03-31-2012, 04:08 AM
Well, it's just my uneducated opinion, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me not to take a unified approach to predictions. Maybe that's why Vedic astrology has a much better reputation for being able to predict actual events? Not that the methods are better, but that there is in fact a unified approach?
Although I'm no expert either I shall say that IMO you may be onto something there tsmall :smile:

dr. farr
03-31-2012, 09:24 AM
Yes this could well be the case. We find a similar sentiment expressed by early Modernist (Western) pioneers like Charles Carter, who recommended that at least 3 predictive techniques be applied before making prognostic delineations.

byjove
03-31-2012, 01:50 PM
Well, it's just my uneducated opinion, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me not to take a unified approach to predictions. Maybe that's why Vedic astrology has a much better reputation for being able to predict actual events? Not that the methods are better, but that there is in fact a unified approach?

I would absolutely love to see this. :biggrin: There are a few things to note though, those discussions raise the fiercest of arguments here, I can't imagine in conferences, it would be important to preserve knowledge and not lose it in standardisation (e.g. local dialects vs. mother languages) and I note that even in science, an unfortunate enemy (they laugh all the time at us) has extreme diversity...I've heard one scientist say that quantum physics is a new box that scientists put all the things they don't understand. My point is and I'm sure you know this is that some diversity is natural.

I agree though I have long advocated some standardisation or agreements. Valens explains more about chroncrators very well.

tsmall
03-31-2012, 08:26 PM
I would absolutely love to see this. :biggrin: There are a few things to note though, those discussions raise the fiercest of arguments here, I can't imagine in conferences, it would be important to preserve knowledge and not lose it in standardisation (e.g. local dialects vs. mother languages) and I note that even in science, an unfortunate enemy (they laugh all the time at us) has extreme diversity...I've heard one scientist say that quantum physics is a new box that scientists put all the things they don't understand. My point is and I'm sure you know this is that some diversity is natural.

I agree though I have long advocated some standardisation or agreements. Valens explains more about chroncrators very well.

Hmm, I think I may have miscommunicated my meaning. I agree that even among traditional astrologers there will always be diversity, and "high level discussion" :wink: about technique. Rather, I meant that the various predictive systems can't be applied as separate, discrete methodologies. It makes more sense to use them all in concert.

JerryRR
03-31-2012, 09:04 PM
"The first problem we face is that there were at least twelve different systems for generating Time Lords,so that several different Time Lords would be operating at any one time.Each astrologer would have his own preferred system and some systems were more popular than others."

"At the moment,because so few astrologers use them,there is no generally accepted way to use Hellenistic techniques."

From his article,"Time Lords in Hellenistic Astrology." by James Brockbank (2001)

J.R.

tsmall
03-31-2012, 09:28 PM
"The first problem we face is that there were at least twelve different systems for generating Time Lords,so that several different Time Lords would be operating at any one time.Each astrologer would have his own preferred system and some systems were more popular than others."

"At the moment,because so few astrologers use them,there is no generally accepted way to use Hellenistic techniques."

From his article,"Time Lords in Hellenistic Astrology." by James Brockbank (2001)

J.R.

Interesting quote, Jerry. I am getting a sense that there were different systems used for different reasons, same as today. I notice that the article you quote was written eleven years ago. I wonder if the author might have changed his mind in light of how much more interest has been recently generated in Hellenistic techniques?

Moog
03-31-2012, 10:39 PM
It's the same with the dasas, there's bunches of different systems. The most popular and accepted is the Vimshottari system which is pretty ubiquitous.

I think a lot of Jyotishis will use two or more systems in parallel

JUPITERASC
04-01-2012, 01:46 AM
Hellenistic timing procedures are complex – however there are two techniques known as “periods” and “ascensions” which are central to varying kinds of enquiries made by Hellenistic astrologers and which - in their simplest form - are reasonably straightforward to explain and/or use to determine when certain planets or configurations become “busy” and therefore produce events.

Omnisphericus has already demonstrated some of their use in calculations in relation to longevity at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47191:smile: (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47191)

Events/busy times occur (1) at the completion of the planet’s minor period (2) at the completion of the ascensional time of the sign the planet occupies or (3) at the sum of its minor period and ascensional time as well as (4) at other times involving combinations with the domicile lord.

Each planet is assigned a specific number of years for its natural period of rulership. The effects associated with each planet - as indicated in the promise of the natal chart - are activated at the completion of the planetary period.

There are sets of periods for each planet and I attach a table illustrating those that was originally provided by Omnisphericus on another thread at this link http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46808&page=3

tsmall
04-01-2012, 11:32 PM
Each planet is assigned a specific number of years for its natural period of rulership. The effects associated with each planet - as indicated in the promise of the natal chart - are activated at the completion of the planetary period.



The effects associated with each planet only present or are activated at the end of the planetary period? Could you elaborate on this idea? To me that suggests for example that the activation of the Moon's effects would only happen after the age of 4 (see my OP.) Is that accurate? It makes more sense to me (but I know nothing about anything. :cool:) that the planet's effects, aspects, et cetera, would be felt when that planetary period is activated...:annoyed:

JUPITERASC
04-02-2012, 12:59 AM
The effects associated with each planet only present or are activated at the end of the planetary period? Could you elaborate on this idea? To me that suggests for example that the activation of the Moon's effects would only happen after the age of 4 (see my OP.) Is that accurate? It makes more sense to me (but I know nothing about anything. :cool:) that the planet's effects, aspects, et cetera, would be felt when that planetary period is activated...:annoyed:
tsmall fwiw as I understand the situation, and I'm no expert, there are a number of potential calculations. e.g. let's focus on a particular aspect - choose just one aspect from your own chart - which I seem to recall you have posted on the forum already some time ago... you also calculated your chart both Sidereally and tropically, so we could calculate the chronocraters sidereally as well as tropically and then you can decide which delineation you prefer. Not necessary to repost the chart - just state the sign and house position of two planets in aspect - e.g. a square aspect - and provide the latitude (i.e. degree North or South of the Equator):smile:

tsmall
04-02-2012, 01:17 AM
tsmall fwiw as I understand the situation, and I'm no expert, there are a number of potential calculations. e.g. let's focus on a particular aspect - choose just one aspect from your own chart - which I seem to recall you have posted on the forum already some time ago... you also calculated your chart both Sidereally and tropically, so we could calculate the chronocraters sidereally as well as tropically and then you can decide which delineation you prefer. Not necessary to repost the chart - just state the sign and house position of two planets in aspect - e.g. a square aspect - and provide the latitude (i.e. degree North or South of the Equator):smile:

Since this student is 18 mos. into a supposed Mars period (Mars gets the native starting at age 41?) we could look at Mars square Sun. It's a very close aspect, within 15'. This is particularly apt, since Mars takes over from the Sun. I'm not sure if you mean the lattitude of the planets, or the lattitude of my place of birth? So I include both. Lattitude for place of birth is 32n26. Lattitude of the Sun (based on the additional tables provided at astro.com) is 0*0'0" N, and Mars is 2*41'23" S.

For anyone else reading, tropically I have Sun at 2*15' Libra and Mars at 2*38' Capricorn. Sidereal places Sun at 7*56' Virgo, and Mars at 8*19' Sagittarius. Sun is in the same sign as the ASC in both zodiacs, and so is in the first house (Sun is above the ASC in both.) Mars, again in whole sign, is in 4th in both charts.

JUPITERASC
04-02-2012, 01:39 AM
Since this student is 18 mos. into a supposed Mars period (Mars gets the native starting at age 41?) we could look at Mars square Sun. It's a very close aspect, within 15'. This is particularly apt, since Mars takes over from the Sun. I'm not sure if you mean the lattitude of the planets, or the lattitude of my place of birth? So I include both. Lattitude for place of birth is 32n26. Lattitude of the Sun (based on the additional tables provided at astro.com) is 0*0'0" N, and Mars is 2*41'23" S.

For anyone else reading, tropically I have Sun at 2*15' Libra and Mars at 2*38' Capricorn. Sidereal places Sun at 7*56' Virgo, and Mars at 8*19' Sagittarius. Sun is in the same sign as the ASC in both zodiacs, and so is in the first house (Sun is above the ASC in both.) Mars, again in whole sign, is in 4th in both charts .
I'm a student also tsmall! As I understand the situation, for this particular application of the Hellenistic technique known as Ascensional Times, we need to find the Ascension Time for the sign of each planet involved in this aspect (i.e. Mars square Sun) at the latitude of your place of birth.

I link to an Ascension Time Table courtesy of Project Hindsight Robert Schmidt who provide it free at http://www.projecthindsight.com/images/TablesPDFs/Tb2-AscensionTimes.pdf

I'm posting this before doing any calculations as you are probably keen to begin the calculations for yourself - takes a while to write it all out :smile:

tsmall
04-02-2012, 01:54 AM
I'm a student also tsmall! As I understand the situation, for this particular application of the Hellenistic technique known as Ascensional Times, we need to find the Ascension Time for the sign of each planet involved in this aspect (i.e. Mars square Sun) at the latitude of your place of birth.

I link to an Ascension Time Table courtesy of Project Hindsight Robert Schmidt who provide it free at http://www.projecthindsight.com/images/TablesPDFs/Tb2-AscensionTimes.pdf

I'm posting this before doing any calculations as you are probably keen to begin the calculations for yourself - takes a while to write it all out :smile:

I always knew that learning astrology was going to require math. That's fine, but...I see the table, however I'm not sure how to read it. I assume that the first column, for latitude, is position of the nativity? If that is so, then we get the ascensional time of Virgo/Libra as 36*26', and Gemini/Capricorn as 29*17'. As I was always good with linear algebra, is there a formula to follow?

JUPITERASC
04-02-2012, 02:38 AM
I always knew that learning astrology was going to require math. That's fine, but...I see the table, however I'm not sure how to read it. I assume that the first column, for latitude, is position of the nativity? If that is so, then we get the ascensional time of Virgo/Libra as 36*26', and Gemini/Capricorn as 29*17'. As I was always good with linear algebra, is there a formula to follow?
The ascensional time of a sign is the amount of time that it takes for a sign to fully ascend over the horizon, as measured by the number of equatorial degrees that rise over the eastern horizon during the same time. Although it takes two hours for thirty degrees to ascend over the horizon, because of the obliquity of the ecliptic, it takes more or less than two hours for different thirty-degree intervals of the ecliptic to ascend over the horizon. This interval of time is also dependent upon geographical latitude. The ascensional time is then converted to degrees, and in Hellenistic timing methods, one degree of time is equated to one year of life.

Following the Ascensional Time as shown in the previously attached link to a table of Ascension Times for 32 degrees latitude

(1) Regarding Virgo/Libra we note 35*12'

(2) and for Gemini/Capricorn we note 29*43'

(3) and for Cancer/Sagittarius we note 34* 39'

So therefore, for Tropical Sun Libra Mars Capricorn we simply add the two figures 35* 12 + 29* 43' = 64* 55'
converted to years using degree for a year we get 64 years 11 months

and for Sidereal Sun Virgo Mars Sagittarius we add 35*12 + 34* 39 = 69* 51'
converted to years using degree for a year we get 69 years 10 months 6 days

So the chosen aspect of Sun Square Mars activates Tropically at 64 years 11 months and Sidereally at 69 years 10 months 6 days


Valens also tells us that we can not only halve the times but we can also divide the times into thirds as well:smile:

Therefore this aspect activates at these ages also:
(a) Tropically by halves at 32 years 5 months and 2 weeks
(b) Tropically by thirds at 21 years 3 months 20 days
Tropically by thirds at 42 years 7 months 10 days

(c) Sidereally by halves at 34 years 11 months 3 days
(d) Sidereally by thirds at 23 years 3 months 12 days
(e) Sidereally by thirds at 46 years 6 months 24 days

Because we used the table for exactly 32 degrees rather than 32* 26 the above calculation is imprecise by 26' which converted to time is 5 months 6 days (although take into account that must be halved and divided by thirds as necessary)

Travel back in time and check out what occurred at those various ages if you have reached them as yet:smile:

powerion
04-02-2012, 12:44 PM
@_@ talk about figuring out the past I cant imagine going back and doing all that...lol props.

JUPITERASC
04-02-2012, 07:56 PM
@_@ talk about figuring out the past I cant imagine going back and doing all that...lol props.
The Last of the Time Lords http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI7g4EEl4mk&feature=relmfu:smile: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI7g4EEl4mk&feature=relmfu)

tsmall
04-03-2012, 10:30 PM
Following the Ascensional Time as shown in the previously attached link to a table of Ascension Times for 32 degrees latitude

(1) Regarding Virgo/Libra we note 35*12'

(2) and for Gemini/Capricorn we note 29*43'

(3) and for Cancer/Sagittarius we note 34* 39'

So therefore, for Tropical Sun Libra Mars Capricorn we simply add the two figures 35* 12 + 29* 43' = 64* 55'
converted to years using degree for a year we get 64 years 11 months

and for Sidereal Sun Virgo Mars Sagittarius we add 35*12 + 34* 39 = 69* 51'
converted to years using degree for a year we get 69 years 10 months 6 days

So the chosen aspect of Sun Square Mars activates Tropically at 64 years 11 months and Sidereally at 69 years 10 months 6 days


Valens also tells us that we can not only halve the times but we can also divide the times into thirds as well:smile:

Therefore this aspect activates at these ages also:
(a) Tropically by halves at 32 years 5 months and 2 weeks
(b) Tropically by thirds at 21 years 3 months 20 days
Tropically by thirds at 42 years 7 months 10 days

(c) Sidereally by halves at 34 years 11 months 3 days
(d) Sidereally by thirds at 23 years 3 months 12 days
(e) Sidereally by thirds at 46 years 6 months 24 days

Because we used the table for exactly 32 degrees rather than 32* 26 the above calculation is imprecise by 26' which converted to time is 5 months 6 days (although take into account that must be halved and divided by thirds as necessary)

Travel back in time and check out what occurred at those various ages if you have reached them as yet:smile:



I started to "travel back in time," then realized that I had a big question...how do we define months? I'm thinking that with our modern timekeeping methods, the years won't matter, as we have "leap year" to correct for the difference between a calendar year and a sidereal year, but are months lunar months (28 days) or are they calendar months? Considering we are using methods that were developed and described before our current calendar system was developed, would it be better to convert everything to days?

JUPITERASC
04-03-2012, 10:37 PM
I started to "travel back in time," then realized that I had a big question...how do we define months? I'm thinking that with our modern timekeeping methods, the years won't matter, as we have "leap year" to correct for the difference between a calendar year and a sidereal year, but are months lunar months (28 days) or are they calendar months? Considering we are using methods that were developed and described before our current calendar system was developed, would it be better to convert everything to days?
In this case tsmall, IMO to experiment does no harm! The 360 degree Zodiac circle - whether tropical or whether sidereal - does not in any event exactly correspond to our "solar year" of 365.256363 days... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI&feature=related however I'm no expert so that is simply my opinion :smile:

dr. farr
04-04-2012, 04:03 AM
In profections (and similar calculations) Paulus Alexandrianus and Olympiodorous (4th to 6th centuries, so Late Classical period) used 30 day months.

JUPITERASC
04-05-2012, 03:43 PM
I started to "travel back in time," then realized that I had a big question...how do we define months? I'm thinking that with our modern timekeeping methods, the years won't matter, as we have "leap year" to correct for the difference between a calendar year and a sidereal year, but are months lunar months (28 days) or are they calendar months? Considering we are using methods that were developed and described before our current calendar system was developed, would it be better to convert everything to days?
Perhaps Vettius Valens heard you tsmall...time traveling Ancient Greeks may not be an unusual phenomenon... here's what Vettius Valens advises in an online pdf translation courtesy of Professor Riley available free, gratis and for nothing at http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf:smile: (http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf)

QUOTE
9. The Universal Year. The Year with Respect to the Distribution: How Many Days It Has and How It Must Be Calculated.

Since the universal year has 365 1/4 days, while the year with respect to the distribution has 360, we subtract the 5 intercalary days and the one-fourth of a day, then we find the number of years. Only then will we make the distribution. (We calculated in this way for the previous nativity.)

10. The Breakdown into Longer and Shorter Periods: the Years, Months, Days and Hours of Each Star. The Use of These Periods in Nativities.
By taking one-twelfth of the year (or of each period) we can discover how many days each star/sign allots.

For example: Aries allots 15 years. One-twelfth of 15 years is 15 months. Next one-twelfth of 15 months is 37 1/2 days.

Next one-twelfth of 37 1/2 days is 3 1/3 hours.

Aries allots these time-periods during its period of rule. The allotments of the other stars will be found in the same way. If anyone uses this system, he will find the overall, the yearly, and the monthly chronocrators, as well as the daily and hourly chronocrators. We will append the time divisions for each star worked out in detail so as not to
confuse our readers:

Star ..........................Years................ Months.............Days .................Days+Hours
Sun .......................... 19..................... 19......................47 1/2...............3 days 23 hours
Moon....................... 25..................... 25......................62 1/2...............5 days 5 hours
Saturn...................... 30..................... 30......................75 .....................6 days 6 hours
Capricorn................. 27..................... 27......................67 1/2...............5 days 15 hours
Jupiter...................... 12..................... 12......................30 .....................2 days 12 hours
Mars ........................ 15..................... 15......................37 1/2...............3 days 3 hours
Venus ...................... 8...................... 8 ......................20 .....................1 day 16 hours
Mercury................... 20..................... 20......................50 .....................4 days 4 hours

tsmall
04-05-2012, 09:26 PM
So, Valens is saying to drop, or disregard (subtract the 5 intercalary days and the one-fourth of a day) and then calculate the planetary periods? I think I need to find and read that section of The Anthologies for myself...and take some time to wrap my mind around it. :unsure:

Thanks, JUPITERSC, for doing the work to find the correct reference!

tsmall
04-06-2012, 11:28 PM
The ascensional time of a sign is the amount of time that it takes for a sign to fully ascend over the horizon, as measured by the number of equatorial degrees that rise over the eastern horizon during the same time. Although it takes two hours for thirty degrees to ascend over the horizon, because of the obliquity of the ecliptic, it takes more or less than two hours for different thirty-degree intervals of the ecliptic to ascend over the horizon. This interval of time is also dependent upon geographical latitude. The ascensional time is then converted to degrees, and in Hellenistic timing methods, one degree of time is equated to one year of life.

Following the Ascensional Time as shown in the previously attached link to a table of Ascension Times for 32 degrees latitude

(1) Regarding Virgo/Libra we note 35*12'

(2) and for Gemini/Capricorn we note 29*43'

(3) and for Cancer/Sagittarius we note 34* 39'

So therefore, for Tropical Sun Libra Mars Capricorn we simply add the two figures 35* 12 + 29* 43' = 64* 55'
converted to years using degree for a year we get 64 years 11 months

and for Sidereal Sun Virgo Mars Sagittarius we add 35*12 + 34* 39 = 69* 51'
converted to years using degree for a year we get 69 years 10 months 6 days

So the chosen aspect of Sun Square Mars activates Tropically at 64 years 11 months and Sidereally at 69 years 10 months 6 days


Valens also tells us that we can not only halve the times but we can also divide the times into thirds as well:smile:

Therefore this aspect activates at these ages also:
(a) Tropically by halves at 32 years 5 months and 2 weeks
(b) Tropically by thirds at 21 years 3 months 20 days
Tropically by thirds at 42 years 7 months 10 days

(c) Sidereally by halves at 34 years 11 months 3 days
(d) Sidereally by thirds at 23 years 3 months 12 days
(e) Sidereally by thirds at 46 years 6 months 24 days

Because we used the table for exactly 32 degrees rather than 32* 26 the above calculation is imprecise by 26' which converted to time is 5 months 6 days (although take into account that must be halved and divided by thirds as necessary)

Travel back in time and check out what occurred at those various ages if you have reached them as yet:smile:



JUPITERASC, I am curious as to why we need to add the ascensional times to see when the aspect is activated. Won't each of those planets be activated based on the ascensional times of the signs in which they find themselves?

JUPITERASC
04-06-2012, 11:41 PM
JUPITERASC, I am curious as to why we need to add the ascensional times to see when the aspect is activated. Won't each of those planets be activated based on the ascensional times of the signs in which they find themselves?
Those are the instructions as outlined by Vettius Valens - and since he died two thousand years ago IMO any individual speculation along those lines can be neither proved nor disproved:smile: