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burlinvermon
03-28-2012, 05:06 PM
in western astrology, if a planet is in dark,bright or mixed degree , what does it mean?
is a planet in fall/detriment/pitted/dark or mixed degree malefic? is a planet in dignity/strength/elevated/regular/bright benefic?
if mars is in dignity/strength,is mars a malefic or a benefic?

dr. farr
03-29-2012, 03:04 AM
According to ancient (up through Renaissance times) astrology, the qualities of specific degrees of the ecliptic have an influence upon the expression of the qualities of planets posited in them:

-elevated degrees enhance the + qualities of planets and reduce - qualities
-pitted degrees mean that the planet's expression is inhibited, largely blocked, and tend to be neutralized, whether for good or for ill
-azimene degrees make a planet "crippled", so to speak, in its capacity for expression, and tend to bring out - planetary qualities
-bright degrees enhance the capacity for a planet's expression; they are also considered to enhance the + qualities of a planet and to reduce the - qualities of a planet
-dark degrees do the opposite: they inhibit a planet's capacity for expression, and tend to decrease the + qualities of a planet and to increase the - qualities of a planet
-mixed degrees give an "average" quality of capacity for expression to the planet in them; they favor a mixture of both + and - qualities of the planet

In Traditional Western astrology, all of the above degree-qualities are considered as accidental dignities or debilities (elevated degrees and bright degrees were considered accidental dignities, pitted, azimene and dark degress were considered accidental debilities/detriments)

These degree-concepts are unique to Western astrology (they are no longer used in Modernist astrology)-there is a somewhat similar concept in Vedic regarding a special kind of navamsa, but nothing comparable to the above regarding specific degrees.

What about when a degree involves a couple of these degree qualities?
-azimene quality supercedes pitted/elevated and bright/dark
-pitted and elevated quality supercedes bright/dark

burlinvermon
03-29-2012, 04:02 PM
According to ancient (up through Renaissance times) astrology, the qualities of specific degrees of the ecliptic have an influence upon the expression of the qualities of planets posited in them:

-elevated degrees enhance the + qualities of planets and reduce - qualities
-pitted degrees mean that the planet's expression is inhibited, largely blocked, and tend to be neutralized, whether for good or for ill
-azimene degrees make a planet "crippled", so to speak, in its capacity for expression, and tend to bring out - planetary qualities
-bright degrees enhance the capacity for a planet's expression; they are also considered to enhance the + qualities of a planet and to reduce the - qualities of a planet
-dark degrees do the opposite: they inhibit a planet's capacity for expression, and tend to decrease the + qualities of a planet and to increase the - qualities of a planet
-mixed degrees give an "average" quality of capacity for expression to the planet in them; they favor a mixture of both + and - qualities of the planet

In Traditional Western astrology, all of the above degree-qualities are considered as accidental dignities or debilities (elevated degrees and bright degrees were considered accidental dignities, pitted, azimene and dark degress were considered accidental debilities/detriments)

These degree-concepts are unique to Western astrology (they are no longer used in Modernist astrology)-there is a somewhat similar concept in Vedic regarding a special kind of navamsa, but nothing comparable to the above regarding specific degrees.

What about when a degree involves a couple of these degree qualities?
-azimene quality supercedes pitted/elevated and bright/dark
-pitted and elevated quality supercedes bright/dark

did bonatti only use smoky,dark and pitted degrees and only to gauge the strength of the moon?
are azimene degrees used only if the querent has very obvious disability?

what influence upon the expression of the qualities of planets, smoky,void,degrees of increasing fortune,feminine,masculine degrees have?

were pitted,elevated,dark,bright,azimene,smoky or mixed degree used in natal,horary and event astrology?

if mars is in dignity/strength(aries,scorpio),is mars a malefic or a benefic? if jupiter is in detriment/fall(gemini,virgo),is jupiter a malefic or a benefic?

i will post the lists of the degrees,please tell me if the lists are accurate


azimene degrees


Aries: none
Taurus: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Gemini: none
Cancer: 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
Leo: 18, 27, 28
Virgo: none
Libra: none
Scorpio: 19, 28
Sagittarius: 1, 7, 8, 18, 19
Capricorn: 26, 27, 28, 29
Aquarius: 18, 19
Pisces: none

dark degrees


Aries: 3, 16
Taurus: 3, 30
Gemini: 7, 28
Cancer: 14
Leo: 10
Virgo: 5, 30
Libra: 10, 21
Scorpio: 3, 30
Sagittarius: 12
Capricorn: 7, 19, 22, 30
Aquarius: 13
Pisces: 6, 22, 30, 18

bright degrees


Aries: 8, 29
Taurus: 7, 15, 28
Gemini: 4, 12, 22
Cancer: 12, 28
Leo: 30
Virgo: 8, 16
Libra: 5, 18, 27
Scorpio: 8, 22
Sagittarius: 9, 19, 30
Capricorn: 10
Aquarius: 9, 21, 30
Pisces: 12, 28

smoky degrees


Aries: none
Taurus: none
Gemini: none
Cancer: 20
Leo: 20
Virgo: 22
Libra: none
Scorpio: 24
Sagittarius: 23
Capricorn: none
Aquarius: 4
Pisces: none

degrees of increasing fortune


Aries: 19
Taurus: 3, 15, 27
Gemini: 11
Cancer: 1, 2, 3, 4, 15
Leo: 2, 5, 7, 19
Virgo: 3, 14, 20
Libra: 3, 15, 21
Scorpio: 7, 18, 20
Sagittarius: 13, 20
Capricorn: 12, 13, 14, 20
Aquarius: 7, 16, 17, 20
Pisces: 13, 20

masculine degrees


Aries: 8, 15, 30
Taurus: 11, 21, 30
Gemini: 16, 26
Cancer: 2, 10, 23, 30
Leo: 5, 15, 30
Virgo: 12, 30
Libra: 5, 20, 30
Scorpio: 4, 17, 30
Sagittarius: 2, 12, 30
Capricorn: 11, 30
Aquarius: 21, 27
Pisces: 10, 23, 30

feminine degrees


Aries: 9, 22
Taurus: 5, 17, 24
Gemini: 5, 22, 30
Cancer: 8, 12, 27
Leo: 8, 23
Virgo: 8, 20
Libra: 15, 27
Scorpio: 14, 25
Sagittarius: 5, 24
Capricorn: 19
Aquarius: 15, 25, 30
Pisces: 20, 28

void degrees


Aries: 24, 30
Taurus: 12, 20
Gemini: 16, 30
Cancer: 18, 30
Leo: 25
Virgo: 10, 27
Libra: 30
Scorpio: 14, 29
Sagittarius: none
Capricorn: 25
Aquarius: 25
Pisces: 25

dr. farr
03-30-2012, 08:55 AM
Pitted and elevated degrees were also known as degrees of increasing fortune or degrees of decreasing fortune; I have provided a numeration/corrected list of these as a sticky in the dignities/debilities subforum of the natal astrology forum, entitled "Elevated and Pitted Degrees:

-you are correct in the listing of azimene degrees

-yes elevated and pitted degrees, azimene degrees, and bright/dark degrees, were used in natal, horary and event astrology (in the West) up through the 17th century, albeit in an ever more infrequent application as the centuries passed-they were most applied in Hellenistic and the early through middle Islamic era, and somewhat into early Renaissance times.

Bright/dark/mixed degrees received various other names over the centuries; smokey = dark, luminous = bright, light = bright, void = mixed, faint = mixed

The lists of these bright/dark degrees provided above are not correct (actually they are partially incorrect) and they do not jibe with the chart numeration method we now universally use in Western astrology. I shall provide a posting of the (Hellenist and early Islamic ear) bright/dark degrees in the dignities/debilities sub-forum in the near future.

burlinvermon
03-30-2012, 03:28 PM
Pitted and elevated degrees were also known as degrees of increasing fortune or degrees of decreasing fortune; I have provided a numeration/corrected list of these as a sticky in the dignities/debilities subforum of the natal astrology forum, entitled "Elevated and Pitted Degrees:

-you are correct in the listing of azimene degrees

-yes elevated and pitted degrees, azimene degrees, and bright/dark degrees, were used in natal, horary and event astrology (in the West) up through the 17th century, albeit in an ever more infrequent application as the centuries passed-they were most applied in Hellenistic and the early through middle Islamic era, and somewhat into early Renaissance times.

Bright/dark/mixed degrees received various other names over the centuries; smokey = dark, luminous = bright, light = bright, void = mixed, faint = mixed

The lists of these bright/dark degrees provided above are not correct (actually they are partially incorrect) and they do not jibe with the chart numeration method we now universally use in Western astrology. I shall provide a posting of the (Hellenist and early Islamic ear) bright/dark degrees in the dignities/debilities sub-forum in the near future.
the lists i quoted are bonatti's. i will read that,when you post the correct lists of these bright/dark degrees.

i've read on skyscript that there are 4 degrees,
dark,bright or light,void or mixed or faint and smoky,i quoted.

what influence upon the expression of the qualities of planets, smoky,feminine,masculine degrees have?

are my lists of smoky,feminine and masculine degrees accurate?

if mars is in dignity/strength(aries,scorpio),is mars a malefic or a benefic? if jupiter is in detriment/fall(gemini,virgo),is jupiter a malefic or a benefic?



These are considered for the ascendant and Moon in horary and natal judgements in determining physical structure and capability. Lilly writes:

Light or dark

Let a sign ascend in a Nativity or Question, if the Ascendant be in those degrees you see are called light, the child or querent shall be more fair; if the degree ascending be of those we call dark, his complexion shall be nothing so fair, but more obscure and dark; and if he be born deformed, the deformity shall be more and greater; but if he be deformed when the light degrees of a sign ascend, the imperfection shall be more tolerable. (CA., p.117)

Void

And if the Moon or the degree ascending be in those degrees we call void, be the Native or Querent fair or foul, his understanding will be small, and his judgement less than the world supposes, and the more thou conferest with him, the greater defect shall be found in him. (CA., p.117)

Smoky

If the Ascendant, the Moon or either of them be in those degrees we call smoky, the person inquiring or Native, shall neither be very fair nor very foul, but of a mixed complexion, stature or condition, between fair and foul, between tall and of little Stature, and so in condition neither very judicious or a very ***. (CA., pp.117-118)

dr. farr
03-31-2012, 02:52 AM
The Bonatti lists are different than the earlier Hellenist/Abu Mashar and al-Kindi lists (different than the original lists) Lilly and others followed the Bonatti lists. Further, none of those lists are corrected for our modern sign numeration (they started their signs @ 1 and ended @ 30; modern sign numeration-now universally used-starts @ 0 and ends @ 29:59:59; some the degrees given in the old lists are off by 1 in every case)

As Al-Biruni (11th century) mentions, bright/dark/mixed degrees were sometimes applied for actual color "predictions", which is what Lilly did; this is, however, not the principal use by the ancients of bright/dark degrees, which had to do with effects upon the expression of planetary qualities (and also relative to the manifestations of conditions/events indicated by Lots)

Male/Female degrees are another matter, seperate from the azimene/elevated/pitted degree and bright/dark/mixed degree considerations.

Relative to your Mars and Jupiter example questions: to me (according to my understanding) if Mars or any other planet is in strength (net dignity) it = a benefic, and if any planet is in weakness (net detriment) it = a malefic; so in your example, Mars would be a functional benefic and Jupiter would be a functional malefic.

SniperBomber328
03-31-2012, 04:36 AM
That means my Mars is benefic by nature! He is in the 1st Scorpio, occidental, in its own Triplicity, direct in motion , free of combustion and the Suns beams and in the 20th degree of increasing fortune. Too bad he is also squared by Saturn in the 4th Aquarius.

tsmall
03-31-2012, 04:55 AM
That means my Mars is benefic by nature! He is in the 1st Scorpio, occidental, in its own Triplicity, direct in motion , free of combustion and the Suns beams and in the 20th degree of increasing fortune. Too bad he is also squared by Saturn in the 4th Aquarius.

Mars square Saturn isn't always a "too bad." You just delineated your Mars. Do the same for Saturn, check the houses affected, and then decide if it's "too bad." If Mars is a benefic for you, he might just make your Saturn better.

SniperBomber328
03-31-2012, 07:14 AM
Mars square Saturn isn't always a "too bad." You just delineated your Mars. Do the same for Saturn, check the houses affected, and then decide if it's "too bad." If Mars is a benefic for you, he might just make your Saturn better.

Well my Saturn is a functional benefic as well, considering he is diurnal, domicile, in the 4th, in its own Triplicity and free of combustion. Despite the fact that he is retro.

powerion
03-31-2012, 08:06 AM
1 azimene
3 dark and a void in tarus,,spoooky

dr. farr
03-31-2012, 09:28 AM
1 azimene
3 dark and a void in tarus,,spoooky

Are those your chart placements?
Also, remember to use the corrected sign numeration (such as I have given for pitted and elevated degrees in my thread on the subject)
For example, with the uncorrected lists 20 Scorpio is given as azimene; however with the corrected sign numeration it is 19 Scorpio which is azimene, not the 20th...

dr. farr
03-31-2012, 09:32 AM
Well my Saturn is a functional benefic as well, considering he is diurnal, domicile, in the 4th, in its own Triplicity and free of combustion. Despite the fact that he is retro.

Vedics (at least Parasara) regarded retrograde as = to exaltation:w00t:! (I have discussed this, and also my current uncertainty re to retorgrade, in posts on a couple of other threads)
Also for the Vedics, the nature of the aspect is not + or -, but rather the malefic or benefic qualitiy of the PLANETS IN the aspect; so, by that reasoning, if both your Mars and Saturn are defacto (functional) benefics in your chart, then the square between them actually enhances their combined benefic influences! These outlooks are, however, quite at variance with our Western consideration of these matters, which is another reason why I am an eclectic in my own outlook on astrological matters.

(Disclaimer: this response is presented only as comparative information related to Traditional Astrology and is not intended to lead this discussion away from the intent of this Traditional Astrology forum, nor to be critical of Traditionalist Western astrological concepts and methodologies)

burlinvermon
03-31-2012, 03:04 PM
The Bonatti lists are different than the earlier Hellenist/Abu Mashar and al-Kindi lists (different than the original lists) Lilly and others followed the Bonatti lists. Further, none of those lists are corrected for our modern sign numeration (they started their signs @ 1 and ended @ 30; modern sign numeration-now universally used-starts @ 0 and ends @ 29:59:59; some the degrees given in the old lists are off by 1 in every case)

As Al-Biruni (11th century) mentions, bright/dark/mixed degrees were sometimes applied for actual color "predictions", which is what Lilly did; this is, however, not the principal use by the ancients of bright/dark degrees, which had to do with effects upon the expression of planetary qualities (and also relative to the manifestations of conditions/events indicated by Lots)

Male/Female degrees are another matter, seperate from the azimene/elevated/pitted degree and bright/dark/mixed degree considerations.

Relative to your Mars and Jupiter example questions: to me (according to my understanding) if Mars or any other planet is in strength (net dignity) it = a benefic, and if any planet is in weakness (net detriment) it = a malefic; so in your example, Mars would be a functional benefic and Jupiter would be a functional malefic.

what do you use male/female degrees for? are my lists of male/female degrees accurate?

on skyscript they say that there are 4 degrees including smoky,do you know these smoky degrees?

can you please post the corrected lists?

if both your Mars and Saturn are defacto (functional) benefics in your chart, then the square between them actually enhances their combined benefic influences!
even if it is a square or opposition? vedic or western astrology?

dr. farr
04-01-2012, 03:27 AM
skyscript lists are from Reformation times (Lilly), which are further derived from 13th century Bonatti lists; these are different in many instances from the earlier Hellenist and Islamic transitional era lists AND the skyscript lists do NOT correct the given numeration to our modern sign numeration.

In comparison of the developing historical sources regarding light/dark degrees, it is clear to me that smokey developed as a sub-catergory for dark degrees; the original degree quality allocations really only fall into 3 fundamental categories: bright, dark and mixed.

Male/female degree allocations were primarily used as part of determining a given planet's strength (being accidental dignities or debilities) A male planet in a male degree was given additional +, but in a female degree was given a -; and vice versa fro female planets; also m/f degrees were used somewhat in horary delineations as well.

Several allocations of m/f qualities to the degrees were developed: the oldest (still known or extant) by Valens used duodenary (2.5 degree) areas, starting with male for + polarity signs and starting with female for - polarity signs, alternating thereafter in each sign.

Both in ancient (up to contemporary time) Vedic astrology and in the system advocated by Al-Biruni (11th century), each degree was allocated m/f quality: for + polarity signs the 1st degree = male, 2nd degree = female, etc; and for - polarity signs the 1st degree = female, 2nd degree = male, etc.
In my opinion, the Vedic and Al-Biruni m/f degree-quality allocation system should be the preferred method.

(relative to your quotation from my Mars/Saturn square statement, that would be from the Vedic point of view; in Western astrology a "bad" aspect even between benefics would tend to = a negative influence)

SniperBomber328
04-01-2012, 11:49 AM
Farr mind looking at my chart real quick to see whether my Mars falls in an Azimene Degree or Fortunate Degree. I can't for the life of me figure it out. I have looked at both the numeric systems (i.e where they start at the 0'00 degree and 1'00 degree), but still it makes me feel uneasy despite convincing myself that it falls in a fortunate degree.

See my Mars is in the 20th degree Scorpio. The Azimene degree is in the 19th degree, and the Fortunate degree follows up in the 20th degree. The chart I have attached, I think uses the old numeric system (again i.e 0'00), but any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

mohit325
04-01-2012, 02:31 PM
nice information

dr. farr
04-02-2012, 02:37 AM
Sniperbomber:
Using corrected sign numeration (ie the numeration we use today) and taking early sources (Manilius, Valens, Maximus, Abu Mashar, Al-Biruni and Ibn Ezra) for the degree (and degree area) allocations, your Mars @ 20 Scorpio is:

-in the hora (half of a sign) of Cancer
-in the Manilius decan of Pisces
-in the duodenary of Cancer
-it is not in an azimene degree
-it is not in either a pitted or elevated degree
-it is in a dark degree ("shadowed" degree)
-it is in the Egyptian term of Jupiter

burlinvermon
04-02-2012, 06:15 PM
skyscript lists are from Reformation times (Lilly), which are further derived from 13th century Bonatti lists; these are different in many instances from the earlier Hellenist and Islamic transitional era lists AND the skyscript lists do NOT correct the given numeration to our modern sign numeration.

In comparison of the developing historical sources regarding light/dark degrees, it is clear to me that smokey developed as a sub-catergory for dark degrees; the original degree quality allocations really only fall into 3 fundamental categories: bright, dark and mixed.

Male/female degree allocations were primarily used as part of determining a given planet's strength (being accidental dignities or debilities) A male planet in a male degree was given additional +, but in a female degree was given a -; and vice versa fro female planets; also m/f degrees were used somewhat in horary delineations as well.

Several allocations of m/f qualities to the degrees were developed: the oldest (still known or extant) by Valens used duodenary (2.5 degree) areas, starting with male for + polarity signs and starting with female for - polarity signs, alternating thereafter in each sign.

Both in ancient (up to contemporary time) Vedic astrology and in the system advocated by Al-Biruni (11th century), each degree was allocated m/f quality: for + polarity signs the 1st degree = male, 2nd degree = female, etc; and for - polarity signs the 1st degree = female, 2nd degree = male, etc.
In my opinion, the Vedic and Al-Biruni m/f degree-quality allocation system should be the preferred method.

(relative to your quotation from my Mars/Saturn square statement, that would be from the Vedic point of view; in Western astrology a "bad" aspect even between benefics would tend to = a negative influence)
do you follow the vedic point of view?(mars/saturn square statement)

do smoky degrees mean anything?(in natal, horary or event charts)

do the lists i posted on this thread have the corrected numeration to our modern sign numeration?(not skyscript)

if it is not the corrected numeration(signs started at 1 degree and ended at 30 degrees), so on the lists "1" degree would mean "0 degrees" by the current sign numeration(ie, 3 aries a dark degree would be 2:00 to 2:59)?

are the male/female degrees lists i posted bonatti's? how do you use these degrees?

what are the + polarity signs and - polarity signs? are male degrees positive and female degrees negative by Al-Biruni and vedic astrology?

SniperBomber328
04-05-2012, 02:08 PM
Sniperbomber:
Using corrected sign numeration (ie the numeration we use today) and taking early sources (Manilius, Valens, Maximus, Abu Mashar, Al-Biruni and Ibn Ezra) for the degree (and degree area) allocations, your Mars @ 20 Scorpio is:

-in the hora (half of a sign) of Cancer
-in the Manilius decan of Pisces
-in the duodenary of Cancer
-it is not in an azimene degree
-it is not in either a pitted or elevated degree
-it is in a dark degree ("shadowed" degree)
-it is in the Egyptian term of Jupiter

Thanks so much Farr! I have one question though, when I looked at the list for degress it say's the 19th degree is Azimene and the 20th degree is an Increasing Fortune (IF) degree in Scorpio. Hm....I better recheck that database. Thanks also for adding in the extras, really appreciae you taking the time.

dr. farr
04-06-2012, 08:17 AM
I would like to suggest to the thread OP and to our Moderators that this thread might be much more appropriate to the Dignities and Debilities subformum, and would ask to consider moving this thread to that subforum.
Sincerely,
Richard L. Farr

Thanks to our Moderators for the move:joyful:!!

Wames
04-28-2012, 03:46 AM
Dr. Farr,

Re: Welled/pitted degree malefics. I'm reading Intro to Traditional Astrology by Ben Dykes and he quotes Abu Ma'shar pg. 345:

[Abbr. VII.55] Therefore, in the signs there are certain degrees which are called "wells," for the reason that if prosperous stars fell into them, they wholly lose [their] virtue. [56] Even the malevolents are changed [there] so that they would not have the power to harm, [but rather] they benefit. [57] But, however, in certain hours their malice is increased in that same place.

[Gr. Intr. V.21.1129-44] Wherefore in the signs are degrees which are called "wells." And if some one of the planets fell into those degrees of a sign (that is, so that it does not fall in front of or behind it, but in it), its beauty and look will disappear, and it will be made weak by its signification. In fact, if fortunes fell into them, their being will be in the way we have described in terms of weakness. But if the bad ones fell into them, their signification will be weakened, and perhaps it will have signified accidental fortune on account of its weakness over evil, and perhaps the nature of that malice will be strengthened.....

Do you consider malefics that are pitted less harmful for the native?

Also, the skyscript degree list http://www.skyscript.co.uk/deginf1.html has 15 degree Cancer both Lame and IF and 17 degree Aquarius Deep and IF. Would this make those degrees neither + or - and make them neutral?

Thanks.

dr. farr
04-28-2012, 04:11 AM
Dr. Farr,

Re: Welled/pitted degree malefics. I'm reading Intro to Traditional Astrology by Ben Dykes and he quotes Abu Ma'shar pg. 345:



Do you consider malefics that are pitted less harmful for the native?

Also, the skyscript degree list has 15 degree Cancer both Lame and IF and 17 degree Aquarius Deep and IF. Would this make those degrees neither + nor - and make them neutral?

Thanks.


1) The majority of Hellenist and Islamic-transitional era authorities considered welled/pitted/deep (all synonyms) degrees to move toward neutrality, ie, malefics less so, benefics also less so; Ibn Ezra and, to a more conditional and limited extent, Abu Mashar, considered that welled/pitted/deep degrees increased the malefic influence of malefic planets

2) I follow the majority outlook (of the oldtimers) and absolutely regard malefics in the pitted degrees to be less potentially detrimental to the native, so I answer "yes" to your question. I also consider malefics in Elevated degrees to be largely altered away from having malefic influences.

3) Note that in most of the published tables of these degrees the old-style sign numeration is used, which can be misleading since the sign numeration universally used today is different: they start signs at 1 and end at 30, we now start signs at 0 and end at 29:59:59; so the listed degrees in the available tables must be taken back by 1 degree (same goes for the published lists of terms, whether Egyptian or Ptolemaic, even Lilly's list of terms) Same also for the generally given lists of exaltation and fall degrees: eg, in oldstyle numeration the exaltation for the Moon is given as 3 Taurus: however, this is equivalent to 2 Taurus in our modern sign numeration!

4) there is (or was) a hierarchy applied to how to evaluate the degrees relative to one degree representing several qualities:

a) Azimene ("Lame") supercedes all other degree qualities
b) Pitted or Elevated supercedes Bright/Dark
c) the light quality (Bright, Dark, Mixed/Void) comes in as last place in the delineative hierarchy relative to each specific degree

IF = increasing fortune: this is a synonym for an Elevated degree: and Elevated degree CANNOT also be a "DEEP" or DF (decreasing fortune) degree, which is the same thing as a Pitted degree. NOTE that later authors altered the earlier Pitted/Elevated and Bright/Dark/Mixed lists, and also applied other terms (like IF and DF) for these degrees, which can be confusing to the student who is not aware of the historical development of these degree allocations and meanings of the terms used.

My list of Elevated & Pitted degrees on my thread in this Forum section is corrected for our modern sign numeration, and I have taken these degrees from the list which I consider most reliable, ie, that of Ibn Ezra (12th century AD)

Wames
04-28-2012, 05:10 AM
Thanks Dr. Farr! Excellent info! :biggrin: The Avelar and Ribeiro book "On the Heavenly Spheres" uses the present day numeration and Ben Dykes and Skyscript use the tables presented in the ancient books. Also, the Avelar/Ribeiro book doesn't have the Azemene/Lame degree list. They repeat the pitted list from figure 6 on page 224. Just a small error. Thanks again.