PDA

View Full Version : Profections (Praxis)


Omnisphericus
02-24-2012, 06:03 PM
I've already opened 2 threads on the traditional astrology forum where I tried to practically measure the value of the traditional astrology techniques .

The first is about Hyleg and Alcocoden which you can find here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46808

On this thread we tried to investigate the different approaches and theories of this predictive technique as was given by different authors in the past.
The thread is still open for practice (and theory as well) on the charts of already death persons/celebrities.

The 2nd thread I've open was about the Arabic/Greek Lots on which we investigate the theory of eminence and fame shown in the chart.
This thread you can find here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47124
It is still open for investigating and deepening the knowledge (theoretical and practical as well) of these ancient techniques.

Another subject that is fascinating me is the subject of Profections. They are also very colorful in variety of sub-themes and opinions of authors upon it.
I saw that tsmall has already opened a thread on this subject, which you can find here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41112

I hope that we can use both threads for discovering the value of this technique, of which I would try in this thread to follow the earlier example of my earlier 2 threads on which I tried to make summary and practical exegesis of the particular subjects.
So, here I will try to summarize the different approaches by authors step by step, alongside with practical analyse of a charts of the celebrities ranged with AA.

I'm inviting you to participate with me in deepening the knowledge of these ancient and medieval techniques and discover the beauty that lies in it, the beauty of knowing more about the Cosmos and Us.

Omnisphericus
02-24-2012, 06:27 PM
As many years as the nativity should spin out, we pass these through from the hour-marking zōidion [sign], giving the first year of engendered time to the Hōroskopos [ascending sign] and the second to the post-ascension of the Hōroskopos [2nd place], and so on for the rest in the following zōidia [signs], until the 12th number should be completed.

This is the basic technique given by Paulus of Annual Profections of the Ascendant, i.e. profection of the Ascendant from one sign to the next for each year of life. The Ruler of the Sign in which the Ascendant is falling in that particular year is called 'The Lord of the Year".
This technique is quite simple and you do not need to calculate degrees, only signs.
If you are born with Aries rising, on the Solar Return the next year (when you are 1 year old) the Profected Ascendant would be in Taurus and the Lord of the Year would be Venus.

The Ages 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, 96 and etc., are the 'Profection Return' (to invent a title xD), the Ascendant in those years is the same as it was at the birth, so the Lord of the Year is the same too.

Years 1, 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73, 85, 97 are given to the 2nd sign from the Ascendant.

Here's a chart:
27162

The Lord of the Year is having the same function as the Lord of the Year at nativity. It is most significant planet, ruling the place where the Soul (the Sky) and Body (earth) are merging (at the Ascendant).

Here's what Paulus says about the Lord of the year in profections:

...falls to Virgo. Hermes (Mercury) is the lord of the year. We examine the [star] of Hermes, how it lies in the nativity, and which of the stars make a baleful aspect to it, and which look ahead at the zōidion where the year has chanced to be, and which were configured with it in the nativity...

Omnisphericus
02-24-2012, 07:08 PM
I found out a time Line of Whitney's life/career and I want to try this technique given by Paulus.
Her first (debut) album was released in the year 1985.
I've made a chart for her birth day in august 1984.

Look at the BeWheel. The inner planets are from the Natal Chart and the outer wheel is for the Profected year in 1984-1985.

For now, we will look only at the profected Ascendant and its ruler: the lord of the year.

27167

The Ascendant is in 8Sagittarius in 10th, up there in Elevation. And as it will progress throughout the year (1984-1985) will reach her Natal Mc at 18Sag.

The Lord of the Year (Jupiter) is in fall (in Capricorn) but in good profected house (11th!).
Well, it is conjuncting the natal South Node.
I think that Ascendant being up there in MC is a quite strong deal in itself, and is showing the Beginnings of her Elevation to the throne of being the pop diva.


(I will continue with the timeline later when I have the time)..

JUPITERASC
02-24-2012, 07:31 PM
Another subject that is fascinating me is the subject of Profections. They are also very colorful in variety of sub-themes and opinions of authors upon it.
I saw that tsmall has already opened a thread on this subject, which you can find here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41112

I hope that we can use both threads for discovering the value of this technique, of which I would try in this thread to follow the earlier example of my earlier 2 threads on which I tried to make summary and practical exegesis of the particular subjects.
So, here I will try to summarize the different approaches by authors step by step, alongside with practical analyse of a charts of the celebrities ranged with AA.

I'm inviting you to participate with me in deepening the knowledge of these ancient and medieval techniques and discover the beauty that lies in it, the beauty of knowing more about the Cosmos and Us
Omnisphericus the discussions engendered on the two threads you have already initiated are of great value in clarifying the interesting ideas of (a) the assessment of Vital Force of the native as well as (b) Eminence Indicators in the natal chart. The Profection technique is at least two thousand years old and may have - not unexpectedly - 'morphed' or altered subtly over the centuries - due possibly to translation from one language to another. Nevertheless it is clear these techniques are of great value when studying charts that have reliable birth times.

As you have already said above, Profection has 'a variety of sub themes' and, as ever, there are varied opinions as to methods of Profection - I applaud your intention to highlight may of these variegated methods and thus to bring clarity to this perennially intriguing topic.

Thank you for taking the time to present this information - much appreciated! :smile:

DreamingTheSeas
02-24-2012, 07:33 PM
Good job (as always) Omni!! I just wish to see more expert people in the Traditional section so they could help us with their knowledge.

JUPITERASC
02-24-2012, 07:44 PM
Good job (as always) Omni!! I just wish to see more expert people in the Traditional section so they could help us with their knowledge.
It is said that "Quality is better than Quantity" DreamingTheSeas and we do have Omnisphericus! :smile:

JUPITERASC
02-24-2012, 08:00 PM
This is the basic technique given by Paulus of Annual Profections of the Ascendant, i.e. profection of the Ascendant from one sign to the next for each year of life. The Ruler of the Sign in which the Ascendant is falling in that particular year is called 'The Lord of the Year".
This technique is quite simple and you do not need to calculate degrees, only signs.
If you are born with Aries rising, on the Solar Return the next year (when you are 1 year old) the Profected Ascendant would be in Taurus and the Lord of the Year would be Venus.

The Ages 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, 96 and etc., are the 'Profection Return' (to invent a title xD), the Ascendant in those years is the same as it was at the birth, so the Lord of the Year is the same too.

Years 1, 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73, 85, 97 are given to the 2nd sign from the Ascendant.

Here's a chart:
27162

The Lord of the Year is having the same function as the Lord of the Year at nativity. It is most significant planet, ruling the place where the Soul (the Sky) and Body (earth) are merging (at the Ascendant).

Here's what Paulus says about the Lord of the year in profections:

Omnisphericus, correct me if I'm wrong but I had better mention at this stage that I notice that dr. farr has posted on another thread some time ago that he 'finds Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method' - however, dr. farr seems to be saying that it is the Egyptian method that starts the count at 0 but that Paulus of Alexandria differed and began the count at 1, so we need some clarification methinks! :smile:
The place where the count starts, ie the first house, can make a difference: the Egyptian method (which ahs always been the dominant one, and is the one followed by Valens) begins the count at 0 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 0) Paulus of Alexandria differed, and began the count at 1 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 1) I myself have followed the Pauline profection (all of the available authors have chosen to follow the Egyptian method of starting @ 0, including Lehman, Ben Dykes, etc)

In my experience I have found Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method .

Omnisphericus
02-24-2012, 08:24 PM
Thank you for your encouragement guys, I really appreciate!
I'm a student not an expert though. But the enthusiasm to learn is great in me and I have this need to share with all of you what I have found fascinating; this character trait of mine is pushing me to post all this techniques here.
Also, I want to go to the roots of something, to find its core!
I honestly believe that our desire to learn will spontaneously lead us to become 'experts' about these stuffs some day.

Omnisphericus, correct me if I'm wrong but I had better mention at this stage that I notice that dr. farr has posted on another thread some time ago that he 'finds Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method' - however, dr. farr seems to be saying that it is the Egyptian method that starts the count at 0 but that Paulus of Alexandria differed and began the count at 1, so we need some clarification methinks!

I'm not familiar with the truth behind these two statements. It would be good to invite dr.farr to this discussion to point to us the sources of his thesis.

tsmall
02-24-2012, 09:48 PM
Yet another terrific learning thread, Omnisphericus. I don't know if you are familiar with this pdf from Clelia Romano?

http://www.astrologiahumana.com/profectionsvalens.pdf

I am very new, and so curious. Valens and his contemporaries appear to move the planets in their yearly profections as well as the ASC. Did later medieval astrologers not do the same?

Moog
02-24-2012, 11:04 PM
There seems to be many variations on the basic profection technique. An acquaintance of mine did a recent blog series examining some of them, might be useful or interesting for readers of this thread;

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/tag/profections/

Omnisphericus
02-24-2012, 11:26 PM
Yet another terrific learning thread, Omnisphericus. I don't know if you are familiar with this pdf from Clelia Romano?

http://www.astrologiahumana.com/profectionsvalens.pdf

I am very new, and so curious. Valens and his contemporaries appear to move the planets in their yearly profections as well as the ASC. Did later medieval astrologers not do the same?

I've read the article just yesterday! :)

The medieval astronomer-astrologer Eleutherios Zebelenos says:

The general signs of the completion >profection< are the foundations which proceed, year after year, from sign to sign: beginning from the horoscope or from the culmination or from any star. The star that is the lord of the sign in which the completion arrives, starting from the sign of the horoscope of the nativity, year after year, is the chronocrator or the Lord of the Year

This passage seems to show that the medievals too profected from other points then the ascendant.

Omnisphericus
02-24-2012, 11:27 PM
I found out this great article by italian scholar Giuseppe Bezza:
http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.articoli.profezione/profezione.html

In it he gives introductory considerations on the derivation of the word "Profection".
He is of thinking that the word apparently comes from Latin profectio, the verbal noun of proficiscor, which has the literal sense of "starting" and the metaphorical meaning of "origin"

It seems out that the word Profection is derived from the latin 'perfectio' which in combination with the Greek teléiôsis means literally Completion or Accomplishment (see the quote in the post above this one).

G.Bezza makes a conclusion on the origin of the word:
Therefore, we can arrive to the conclusion that the word "profection" is a corruption of an Arabic term which is properly translated both in Byzantine world and in the Latin West by two corresponding words: teléiôsis, perfectio. Nevertheless, we should notice that none of these translations fully express the meaning of the original Arabic word, intihâ', which means "end", completion.

Next in his article G.Bezza is discribing the chapter IV of Valen's Antology,a chapter in which he speaks about the Profections.

There are two terms which he uses itnerchangebly: "Hands over" and "Takes Over".
So, for example if we have Aries rising, and in the 2nd Place we have Taurus with Saturn in it. The next year Taurus will come to the place of the Ascendant and Aries would go to the 12th place.
Valens would say: "The horoscope Hands Over to Saturn, and Saturn receives the Horoscope". In other words, the horoscope passes its own nature to the following sign alongside with the planet which is in (in this case Saturn).

tsmall
02-25-2012, 12:06 AM
Next in his article G.Bezza is discribing the chapter IV of Valen's Antology,a chapter in which he speaks about the Profections.

There are two terms which he uses itnerchangebly: "Hands over" and "Takes Over".
So, for example if we have Aries rising, and in the 2nd Place we have Taurus with Saturn in it. The next year Taurus will come to the place of the Ascendant and Aries would go to the 12th place.
Valens would say: "The horoscope Hands Over to Saturn, and Saturn receives the Horoscope". In other words, the horoscope passes its own nature to the following sign alongside with the planet which is in (in this case Saturn).

This is where I start to be confused. I don't understand how in this case Saturn receives the horiscope, if Saturn is in Taurus. Wouldn't Venus receive the horoscope and become Lady of the Year, and Saturn becomes angular, but retains any dignity he may or may not have natally? Also, isn't it Mars, as ruler of Aries, that is handing over to Venus? It seems like it should be easier to understand, but for some reason for me not so much.

Omnisphericus
02-25-2012, 01:09 AM
This is where I start to be confused. I don't understand how in this case Saturn receives the horiscope, if Saturn is in Taurus. Wouldn't Venus receive the horiscope and become Lady of the Year, and Saturn becomes angular, but retains any dignity he may or may not have natally? Also, isn't it Mars, as ruler of Aries, that is handing over to Venus? It seems like it should be easier to understand, but for some reason for me not so much.

Lady/Lord of the year is the planet ruling the ascendant in this case Taurus and Venus.
Saturn stays in 2nd house but its Sign (Taurus) moves to the Ascendant, therefore Valens would say: 'The horoscope (ascendant) was hands over to Saturn". Therefore Saturn receives the Horoscopes (Ascendant). Because Saturn is naturally staying in Taurus.
I think that your confusion lies in the word 'horoscope', Valens (and many other in that time) called the Ascendant - Horoscope.

I think that the other part of your confusion is because you think that the Ascendant was given to Taurus (and its ruler Venus).
In the case of Taurus being the Ascendant in that particular year, I think Valens would say: "Taurus takes over the horoscope".

I'm not quite sure yet, it is confusing for me too.

dr. farr
02-25-2012, 05:24 AM
It is my understanding that the Pauline profection count starts at 1 (the ascending sign being 1), from Greenbaum's "Late Classical Astrology"; this same procedure (if I understood the Greenbaum translation correctly) of starting the count in profection at 1 rather than @ 0, is specifically mentioned in the Harranian Thabit ibn Qurra's work, "Ghayat el-Kawakeb" (Way-or Path-of the Planets")*

Certainly the majority (perhaps every) Hellenist (Valens, Maternus, etc) used the Egyptian profection starting the count with 0 (for the ascending sign), but I understand that Paulus differed in this as he also differed in using a multiplier of 13 in determining dodekatemorion rather than the multiplier of 12, as used by all of the other Hellenist authors as the "Egyptian" dodekatemorion method.

In any event, I have always used the profection method starting the profection count at 1 (rather than at 0) and it has worked very accurately for me; in a particular approach to gochara (transits) in Vedic astrology, the profection of the natal ascendant is used to determine the functional benefic/malefic planets for that profection year: in this ancient Vedic method, the count also begins @ 1 (for the natal ascending sign)

Regarding the "handing over" question, to my understanding this simply means that the chart is turned to put the yearly profected ascendant into the natal ascendant position (ie to make it the first house), doing so in sequence for each subsequent year (regardless of the count method: 0 or 1-you might be using) But I take this in a different sense (although the effect is the same), eg, the natal ascendant (say Aries) in the next year becomes Taurus: so Taurus is the profected 1st house and the previous 1st house (Aries) now becomes the 12th house, in that year, and so on around the wheel.


(*in one of the profection methods found in "Astronomica", 14 AD, Manilius talks about giving the 1st year of life to the Sun sign, so my reading of this method-maybe I'm mistaken-nonetheless is starting the count at 1, rather than at 0; in the Manilius methods profection year to year is started from the natal Sun sign, month to month from the natal Moon sign, and day to day from the natal ascendant; thus in this method, at any given time you would have 3 operative profection elements: planetary lord of the yearly profection sign + planetary lord of the monthly profection sign + ploanetary lord of the daily profection sign; notice how this concept as elaborated by Manilius is so similar to the commonly used "dasa" periods of Vedic astrology, where we have a main (mahadasa) lord+a sub (bhukti) lord+ a sub-sub (antar) lord, operative during any given period of time)

PS: Notice in the Whitney Houston whole sign chart, by Pauline profection (that is, by starting the profection count at 1) her ascendant has profected into her natal 12th house at the beginning of her 48th year: thus Lord of her 48th year is Saturn, which is also placed in her natal 12th house; that makes the profected 12th house also fall under Saturn (the profected 12th house is Capricorn), and this profected 12th house contains the natal SN; notice also that the Lord of her 48th profection year (which is also the Lord of her profected 12th house), Saturn, was retrograde and in a pitted (blocked) degree, at the time of her passing.
Notice also that her profected 8th house is Virgo, and that at the time of her passing Mars was transiting that sign (old time astrological doctrine that serious/fatal accidents cannot happen unless Mars has a connection)

Omnisphericus
02-25-2012, 05:38 PM
dr. farr thank you for your replay. I will give it more attention when I have the time. I'm happy to see you here on this discussion.

Omnisphericus
02-25-2012, 11:14 PM
27184

In the chart you can see BiWheel.
In the inner wheel is the natal position of the planets, on the outer wheel it is profection for the day of the murder of this young lady X.

It is a sad story. It is a young girl 21 years old which was stubbed more then 50 times by her boyfriend in her apartment. She passed away immediately.
The boyfriend was so cruel and after he stubbed her acted like nothing happens and went with his friends on a drink.

Lets look first at her birth chart.
As you can see she has Moon on IC and Mars on MC in partile opposition.
The last aspect (prior the birth) Moon has made was with the Sun in 8th and the next (exact) aspect which the Moon is gonna make is with that Mars on MC (Mars is associated with Knifes). The last aspect is showing the condition prior the birth, the next which the Moon is applying is showing a condition (or event) post birth.
You can see also Saturn in 10th. The two Malefics on the public scene up there (this murder was widely known because the murderer later on escape from jail and etc.). Btw the murder happened in small country and it was popular (MC).
Saturn is ruler of 6th, Moon of 12th, Sun of 1st - the Body (in 8th).

Ok, these are natal indicators.
Lets now look for the profections of the exact date exact hour of the murder.

Look the Moon on the Ascendant. Bonatti says: "Moon kills when on the Ascendant".
Look then where the profected ASC is, it is on natal Saturn up there in 10th!
Look what we have on DC: MC, Mars and Saturn.

So, those natal malefics in 10th alongside with the MC came on DC (partner stubbed her and this become publicly known, famous death).
Mars is showing the murderer, Saturn Death and MC the publicity.

Profected South Node and North Node are coming (applying) to the opposition of Moon and Mars on Ic-MC natally.
Next, the Fortuna and Venus in 6th near the natal North node.

Omnisphericus
02-25-2012, 11:21 PM
I once heard one hermetic astrologer saying: "Angles are places of Power", for better or worse!
The old masters has associated the Ac with the body and MC (the sky) with the Soul.
In a way, on the angles is spreded our Life, our Soul or Spirit.
Afflicted angles always shows something significant as we can see in the chart above.

Omnisphericus
02-25-2012, 11:36 PM
Look now at the TriWheel.
The inner wheel is natal, in the middle are profections and on the outer wheel are transits.

Transiting Mars on 1st!
In the natal chart that Mars is showing the Opposition to her (Moon).
In the profected that Mars is in 7th showing her boyfriend.
And in the transit that Mars is in 1st, showing the stubbing knife into her body.

Look at that Saturn (ruler of natal 7th - partner). Saturn is in 7th in profections and in transits.
Transiting Moon and S.N on profected Asc and natal Saturn on MC.

Too many indicators.

And if someone is admirer of the modern planets, then one can look at that Pluto in Scorpio making square to the Ascendant.

Omnisphericus
02-26-2012, 12:03 AM
27187

Look now at Natal-Profections-Solar Arc- Transits.

Look how the Body - Ascendant is afflicted!
There she has Profected Moon, Directed South Node and Transiting Mars.
Directed Sun in 8th.
Profected South Node on MC, Directed Fortuna on Mc, Transiting Venus on MC.

dr. farr
02-26-2012, 02:37 AM
dr. farr thank you for your replay. I will give it more attention when I have the time. I'm happy to see you here on this discussion.


I'm happy you are providing such excellent information on this (and your other) threads! Thank you for doing so!

Profection is my #1 preferred predictive method (followed by simple symbolic progressions and my rather radical approach to Solar Returns)
Combining profection with transit positions (mostly as transit ingresses through the profected houses) can hardly be surpassed (in my opinion) for predicting likely influences and circumstances during the profection year.

dr. farr
02-26-2012, 02:44 AM
Look now at the TriWheel.
The inner wheel is natal, in the middle are profections and on the outer wheel are transits.

Transiting Mars on 1st!
In the natal chart that Mars is showing the Opposition to her (Moon).
In the profected that Mars is in 7th showing her boyfriend.
And in the transit that Mars is in 1st, showing the stubbing knife into her body.

Look at that Saturn (ruler of natal 7th - partner). Saturn is in 7th in profections and in transits.
Transiting Moon and S.N on profected Asc and natal Saturn on MC.

Too many indicators.

And if someone is admirer of the modern planets, then one can look at that Pluto in Scorpio making square to the Ascendant.


Dragon's Tail in the natal whole sign first house-one of the oldtime indications for this position is "may shorten the life"! My late wife had this position (SN in whole sign first house) and she passed away at 57 years of age.

Omnisphericus
02-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Dragon's Tail in the natal whole sign first house-one of the oldtime indications for this position is "may shorten the life"! My late wife had this position (SN in whole sign first house) and she passed away at 57 years of age.

dr. farr look at the thread on Hyleg and Alcocoden where I investigate the death of a one month old baby. This baby seems that does not have Hyleg (3rd differentia chart) and the S.N. is very close to the Asc.
You are right about S.N.

JUPITERASC
02-26-2012, 09:09 PM
To all: Interesting hour long talk entitled "Profections with Maria Mateus" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O6xObhK6M&feature=related:smile:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O6xObhK6M&feature=related)

Omnisphericus
02-26-2012, 09:47 PM
To all: Interesting hour long talk entitled "Profections with Maria Mateus" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O6xObhK6M&feature=related:smile:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O6xObhK6M&feature=related)

Thank you JUPITERASC! :)

tsmall
03-05-2012, 12:56 AM
Lady/Lord of the year is the planet ruling the ascendant in this case Taurus and Venus.
Saturn stays in 2nd house but its Sign (Taurus) moves to the Ascendant, therefore Valens would say: 'The horoscope (ascendant) was hands over to Saturn". Therefore Saturn receives the Horoscopes (Ascendant). Because Saturn is naturally staying in Taurus.
I think that your confusion lies in the word 'horoscope', Valens (and many other in that time) called the Ascendant - Horoscope.

I think that the other part of your confusion is because you think that the Ascendant was given to Taurus (and its ruler Venus).
In the case of Taurus being the Ascendant in that particular year, I think Valens would say: "Taurus takes over the horoscope".

I'm not quite sure yet, it is confusing for me too.

I am still not sure if Taurus can take over the horoscope, as Taurus is a sing and only planets can "rule?" I am hoping someone can offer an explanation?

Also, perhaps I missed it, but isn't it important to consider the condition of the planets both handing over and taking over in order to draw conclusions about what will happen in a given year? For example, a malefic planet, in domicile/exaltation and well aspects assuming control of the chart would make for a better year than say a benefic in detriment and/or poorly aspected?

JUPITERASC
03-07-2012, 01:48 PM
I think that your confusion lies in the word 'horoscope', Valens (and many other in that time) called the Ascendant - Horoscope..

fwiw - the word “Horoscopus” in Greek means “Hour marker” - and is how Valens and other astrologers two thousand years ago were accustomed to describing the degree of the Sign marking the hour of the birth of the native - i.e. in today's terms “The Ascendant Degree” :smile:

WIKIPEDIA Etymology states:

“The word Latin horoscopus, ultimately from Greek ὡρόσκοπος "nativity, horoscope", literally "observer of the hour [of birth]", from ὥρα "time, hour" and σκόπος "observer, watcher".

In Middle English texts from the 11th century, the word appears in the Latin form, and is anglicized to horoscope in Early Modern English. The noun horoscopy for "casting of horoscopes" has been in use since the 17th century (OED).

In Greek, ὡρόσκοπος in the sense of "ascendant" and ὡροσκοπία "observation of the ascendant" is in use since Ptolemy (Tetrabiblos 33, 75)”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horoscope

Omnisphericus
03-17-2012, 03:05 AM
I am still not sure if Taurus can take over the horoscope, as Taurus is a sing and only planets can "rule?" I am hoping someone can offer an explanation?

Also, perhaps I missed it, but isn't it important to consider the condition of the planets both handing over and taking over in order to draw conclusions about what will happen in a given year? For example, a malefic planet, in domicile/exaltation and well aspects assuming control of the chart would make for a better year than say a benefic in detriment and/or poorly aspected?

Hi :)

I was off for a while due to lot of work and a little free time for internet. I will come later with practical explanation on your question :)

Omnisphericus
03-17-2012, 03:06 AM
fwiw - the word “Horoscopus” in Greek means “Hour marker” - and is how Valens and other astrologers two thousand years ago were accustomed to describing the degree of the Sign marking the hour of the birth of the native - i.e. in today's terms “The Ascendant Degree” :smile:

WIKIPEDIA Etymology states:

“The word Latin horoscopus, ultimately from Greek ὡρόσκοπος "nativity, horoscope", literally "observer of the hour [of birth]", from ὥρα "time, hour" and σκόπος "observer, watcher".

In Middle English texts from the 11th century, the word appears in the Latin form, and is anglicized to horoscope in Early Modern English. The noun horoscopy for "casting of horoscopes" has been in use since the 17th century (OED).

In Greek, ὡρόσκοπος in the sense of "ascendant" and ὡροσκοπία "observation of the ascendant" is in use since Ptolemy (Tetrabiblos 33, 75)”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horoscope


Thank you for the explanation :)

tsmall
03-17-2012, 03:38 AM
Hi :)

I was off for a while due to lot of work and a little free time for internet. I will come later with practical explanation on your question :)

Thanks. :smile: There's been quite a lot going on in my little corner of the Universe as well, including quite a bit of extra working.

Omnisphericus
03-18-2012, 06:50 AM
I am still not sure if Taurus can take over the horoscope, as Taurus is a sing and only planets can "rule?" I am hoping someone can offer an explanation?

Also, perhaps I missed it, but isn't it important to consider the condition of the planets both handing over and taking over in order to draw conclusions about what will happen in a given year? For example, a malefic planet, in domicile/exaltation and well aspects assuming control of the chart would make for a better year than say a benefic in detriment and/or poorly aspected?

I wanted to find a quote by Valens but don't have much time to search through the text.
However, I found a little example of what is actually handing and what is taking, in the article: 'A new traditional technique to predict correctly events of the year" by Clelia Romano. Article that can be found for free on her website
http://www.astrologiahumana.com/newtechniquetoprediction.pdf

In this article she gives an example:

'...lets admit that Jupiter is located in the natal ASC and the Moon is in the 2nd house.
In the 13th year (as well as in the 25th in the 37th and etc.) Jupiter hands over to the Moon (my accentuation with bold types). To hand over has a meaning of to give room or apply to.'

So, the planet which naturally (in natal) stays in the space (house) is handing over to the planet and sign which took that space now by profection.

tsmall
03-19-2012, 04:16 AM
I wanted to find a quote by Valens but don't have much time to search through the text.
However, I found a little example of what is actually handing and what is taking, in the article: 'A new traditional technique to predict correctly events of the year" by Clelia Romano. Article that can be found for free on her website
http://www.astrologiahumana.com/newtechniquetoprediction.pdf

In this article she gives an example:


So, the planet which naturally (in natal) stays in the space (house) is handing over to the planet and sign which took that space now by profection.

Ah, this makes much more sense than the idea that the sign "took" over. Thank you for remembering, and for answering. :smile:

byjove
03-22-2012, 11:34 PM
Hmm I'm a little confused. I just checked a really bad year I had a few years ago, and Venus was the lord of the year. I checked a brilliant year, probably the best year of my life, and Venus was the lord. How can she have an opposite effect? The same with Mars. Now if you use Pluto instead that changes things, but Mars for Aries and Scorpio and there's a great year and a terrible year. Are these years significant enough? These are the years that MADE me, the best things happened, and the years that BROKE me, lonely times, times when things failed and I was very afraid of outcomes. I don't get it. I have checked count from 0 and 1 and neither hit the nail.

Also, does anyone know anything about the philosophy behind it? Why does a sign come to the ascendant?

Moog
03-22-2012, 11:47 PM
Could someone who does use profections and finds them useful perhaps do a quick demonstration of profections that really hit the nail on the head? That would be smashing.

tsmall
03-23-2012, 12:08 AM
Could someone who does use profections and finds them useful perhaps do a quick demonstration of profections that really hit the nail on the head? That would be smashing.

We really need a like button here.

byjove, I think that profections were not intended to be read as stand alone charts. I haven't quite figured out all of it, but I <think> that the SR chart for that year, as well as the ability of the ruling planet (and I would imagine the condition of the exaltation ruler, and host of other factors) to actually have control over the profected 1st will tell you much about the year. If we take all these factors into consideration, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see profected years with the same natal house ruler (Venus, to use your example) have completely different effects.

JUPITERASC
03-23-2012, 02:50 AM
Hmm I'm a little confused. I just checked a really bad year I had a few years ago, and Venus was the lord of the year. I checked a brilliant year, probably the best year of my life, and Venus was the lord. How can she have an opposite effect? The same with Mars. Now if you use Pluto instead that changes things, but Mars for Aries and Scorpio and there's a great year and a terrible year. Are these years significant enough? These are the years that MADE me, the best things happened, and the years that BROKE me, lonely times, times when things failed and I was very afraid of outcomes. I don't get it. I have checked count from 0 and 1 and neither hit the nail.

Also, does anyone know anything about the philosophy behind it? Why does a sign come to the ascendant?
Moog posted a link to this website which has a great in-depth series on the rationale and use of profections - remember Moog?!
http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/astrological-predictive-techniques-1-profections-intro/
We really need a like button here.

byjove, I think that profections were not intended to be read as stand alone charts.

I haven't quite figured out all of it, but I <think> that the SR chart for that year, as well as the ability of the ruling planet (and I would imagine the condition of the exaltation ruler, and host of other factors) to actually have control over the profected 1st will tell you much about the year.

If we take all these factors into consideration, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see profected years with the same natal house ruler (Venus, to use your example) have completely different effects.
Exactly, there are yearly, monthly, daily, even hourly profections - as well as the Hellenistic solar return (which is very different from the solar return as we understand it today) - all of which are to be read in tandem with the natal chart as well as transits

and it is all there, free in Vettius Valens pdf online as I have frequently posted http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf

And I note dr. farr has (on another thread) just provided us with a succinct explanation as to Venus varying effects when lord of the profected year byjove:smile:
Remember to profect all the chart elements, not only the ascendant, and then correlate the profected positions to the natal ones.

Also, just as in SR and progressions and even transits, not every year will be dramatic or a stand-out one; many years will be pretty much just "average", for most people at least, with nothing especially outstanding happening, either way.

Then their are the "big years", dramatic years; these should be seen in whatever predictive method we might be using, such as profection...

Moog
03-23-2012, 03:47 AM
I had forgotten about Ant's Profection examples. One of the things I like about his blog is that he shows you something with the techniques.

Unfortunately, I think, unless I'm getting something completely wrong, he's made some mistakes with his numbers there.

I'll need to look in the morning, my brain struggles with basic maths even when I'm not tired.

byjove
03-23-2012, 11:29 AM
Hi Jupiter,

can you tell me which thread the varying effects of Venus has been discussed? I just raced through my recent subscribed threads and the pages within each thread and I don't think I'm subscribed...I'd love to read it though and figure this out. :whistling:

Omnisphericus
03-30-2012, 09:11 AM
Hmm I'm a little confused. I just checked a really bad year I had a few years ago, and Venus was the lord of the year. I checked a brilliant year, probably the best year of my life, and Venus was the lord. How can she have an opposite effect? The same with Mars. Now if you use Pluto instead that changes things, but Mars for Aries and Scorpio and there's a great year and a terrible year. Are these years significant enough? These are the years that MADE me, the best things happened, and the years that BROKE me, lonely times, times when things failed and I was very afraid of outcomes. I don't get it. I have checked count from 0 and 1 and neither hit the nail.

Also, does anyone know anything about the philosophy behind it? Why does a sign come to the ascendant?

Profections are not meant to read standalone. There are lot of different variations what to do with the profections once you look at them. One of the variation which Zoler thought to his students is to take the Lord of the Year (of the profection ascendant) and find it in the Solar Return chart, where it stands and its state; from there to compare that planet and its state in the solar return to the state of that planet in the natal chart.

So, one of the possibilities is to make this mix of techniques:

1. Find the Profected Ascendant of the year and its Lord
2. See what planets do you have (if you have) in radix (natal) in that sign. wether you have malefics or benefics, or no planets at all. Then look to the Lord of the year and who is witnessing it in the radix (with which planets resides in the same sign or is in aspect). Look also if the Lord of the Ascendant in Profections, is in bad celestial state (i.e. it is in fall or detriment), this gives bad functioning of that Lord (Planet) in the particular year.
3. Look at the Solar Returns and find the state of the Lord of the Profection Ascendant in that chart.
4. Always! consider the radix state of that planet. Nothing can be delivered which is not promised in the natal chart.

This is not Profection example per se, but perefections are included in it and I will demonstrate here how the techniques can be mixed. The chart is of the famous Macedonian singer by name Tose Proeski who died in 2007 in a car accident at age of 26.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/522225_3559572664947_1141702982_3455411_252457143_ n.jpg

I hope that the chart would be seen here, if not the birth details are as follow:
25 January 1981
Prilep, Macedonia
11:15 AM

In 2007 Tose was in the Mercury/Mars Fridaria.
Mars - the ruler of the sub-period is the ruler of natal 12th and 7th.
The death was caused by his sleepy driver (ruler of 8th in 6th Stationary).
Marsin radix is a malefic out of sect in 10th with the Light of the Time. The ruler of the Fridaria period and subperiod are in close conjunction.
Because the both rulers of the Fridaria period are in conjunction in the radix, they came together in the Profections of the year (2007), the profected Ascendant was in Leo. Cauda Draconis and the Sun were also at the Ascendant.
The Transiting Jupiter and Moon were in natal 8th. The Sun in natal 6th.

Next, Curtis Mainwaring says:
"First we profect the ascendant at the rate of one sign per year. If the year leaves off at the sign of the prenatal lunation or the squares or diameters of these, the times are dangerous."

Valens says:
"And especially if, these things being so, Kronos should be found in the 4 declines (cadent houses) of the nativity, and the support concurring, death will follow closely thereupon and bodily weakness and bloodshed and precarious sicknesses or hidden troubles, falls and sudden dangers."
Tose's Saturn (Kronos!) was in his natal 6th (the driver - his slave or the one who works for him?!)

Lot of Crisis

Valens says of this: "And wherever it should fall out, when Kronos (Saturn) comes to be there (by transit?) or in the squares or diameters there will be death or a precarious climateric pertaining to the body or action. And similarly also if the climaterical year should come to be in the ascending or descending place (of the Moon - nodes) or their squares."
Tose's Lot of Crisis falls in Virgo and the Transiting Saturn was then in Virgo.

Lot of Destroyer

In Tose's chart falls exactly at the place of the Sun (5 Aquarius) in direct opposition to the pre-natal lunation at Leo.

According to Critodemus, "When the Moon sees the lot of the destroyer, it causes violent deaths, and worse if the Moon should be found in zoidia that have limbs cut off."

In Tose's chart Moon sees the Lot of Destroyer with a Partile (applying) Trine.

Omnisphericus
05-03-2012, 07:37 PM
In my last posts here I've tried to give explanation of the hellenistic method of profecting which is done by Signs.
Here I want to mention another Method in which Profections are done by house.
There will not be many differences in respect to the signs ruling the houses (assuming there are no intercepted signs), but the difference can be seen in the planets position in houses (i.e. their Local Determination).
For example, if I have 4th House Libra, and my Mars is in early Scorpio but still 4th house, that same Scorpio will be in the 5th (house) by Hellenistic Methods, but in the medieval method this will be 4th house Mars.
The difference is that when 4th house comes to the Ascendant in the particular year, that Mars would be in the Profected Ascendant for that year.

Profecting by house is very good predictive method. I'm using it in mix with Firdaria and Solar Returns.
Monthly Profections are also very valuable indicator of more specific events occurring that year.

Bonatti recommends to us to use following profections of the Planets and Points for certain indications:

Sun for honors and dignities of the native.
Moon in order to see the state of the body and soul.
MC for profession or skills and the professional services.
Part of Fortune for knowing the Native's wealth.

You can profect every house. Profect 2nd house to see the financies of the native in the following year (or month!).

Profections can be very good mixed with Solar Returns.
In fact, the Lord of the Year of the Profected Sign/House is very prominent factor both in the natal chart and in the Solar Revolutions.

Omnisphericus
05-04-2012, 01:30 AM
Monthly profections are very easy thing.
Once you have choose the year you want to Profect you can cut the year in monthly pieces.
Lets say that I want to know the general state of my 28th burthday.
If I have Cancer Ascendant, the 28th year would come to the 5th house Scorpio and the Lord of the Year would be Mars. If that Mars is natally in 4th than we can say that the year is all about the Home, Family stuff. The native will be into the Home and Family, his Dwellings this year.
Mars rules 10th also so this year will be about the Career also: "Rearranging the Career from Home" is one of the possibilities, or "rearranging the goals and taking over the Destiny in Life".
Mars also rules 7th by Exaltation so this year will be all about partnerships and business associates too.
This is the yearly profection.
Now lets move to the Monthly Profections.
5th house Scorpio is the First Month in the year, that is from the beginning of the birthday up to the following month the same day.
So if I'm born in 23 January, then 5th House Scorpio will be my First Month up till 23 February.
Because the year is all about 5th house matters (and 4th too) primarly, we would seek for event in the following months.
We would seek for event when the Profections by Month would come to the House where the Lord of the Year is. That is in the 12th house (because 4th is 12th from 5th).
Also, important months are:
23 March through 23 April (because it is the Month of the 7th house Capricorn - exaltation of Mars).
23 June to 23 July because it is the house of Aries.
And as I said:
December to January 2013 because it is Mars who isi n the 4th house.

Omnisphericus
05-04-2012, 01:47 AM
This is also a fine tuning technique.
This is a division of the Monthly Profections, each house rules 2.5 days.
12 X 2.5 = 30

Lets take the same above example of the Cancer Rising.
Yearly profections in his 27th birthday in January 23th were in 4th House Libra.
Moon is there and Venus ruler of 4th is in 6th.
Houses to consider are: 4th/6th/9th Pisces/11th/

From 23 June to 23 July is the Pisces 9th House Monthly Profection.
Lets say that event happened in 10th July.
We start calculating.
Lets group them by two houses = 5 days.
9th and 10th house - 5 days
11th and 12th - 5 days
we are now at 03 of July.
1st nad 2nd house - 5days = 8th of July.
10th of July corresponds to the rd house: event relating to the native's ideas and home happened during these days (3rd house and 4th mixed).