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Moog
01-19-2012, 07:32 PM
How much importance do you give to these factors?

JUPITERASC
01-19-2012, 07:48 PM
How much importance do you give to these factors?
Planetary Days and Hours are automatically calculated by many astrological software programs and are considered useful, particularly for Horary as well as Electional astrology :smile:

Kaiousei no Senshi
01-19-2012, 07:54 PM
Yeah, they're very useful in electional and horary astrology, but I don't really see them used much in natal throughout tradition.

Moog
01-19-2012, 08:22 PM
I should have been more specific, I did mean natal, really. I use them for horary, but I'm mainly interested in Natal astrology.

Thanks for your replies :smile:

Culpeper
01-19-2012, 09:46 PM
I cannot recall ever using the planetary days and hours in natal astrology. However, with electional and horary they are important. It seems to be something like the void-of-course moon which is not considered in natal charts.

Mark
01-20-2012, 02:29 AM
I don't usually bother with them, but, when I do have reason, I don't use the Western attributions. The Chinese/Tibetan pillars and such seem to be much better suited to the task. One could use both, of course, but I haven't found that to be necessary.

P.S. Hey, it's somebody's tradition. :joyful:

dr. farr
01-20-2012, 05:24 AM
Chinese astrology is really "big" on day and hour (meridian hour) for natal.
These considerations (day/hour) play a small part in natal jyotish (Vedic astrology) and, to my knowledge, not much if any of a role in Western natal (certainly not in Modernist, and very minor-if any-in Traditionalist natal delineation; Hellenists used some consideration of these factors for natal, but not much)

eternalautumn
09-16-2013, 05:27 PM
Has anyone found a reference to the use of planetary days and hours in nativities?

Couldn't the day ruler be taken as some sort of chart ruler? Also, the nights have their own rulers as well, underneath the authority of the day (24-hour) ruler (I assume); would they take precedence for a nocturnal birth?

Couldn't we match the hours ruling a particular day or night to the houses of a chart? Equating the 1st house with the 1st hour, the 12th house with the 2nd hour, etc...? Could this give us useful information? Is there a sound philosophical basis for making the connection?

(Doesn't this remind you of chronocrators?)

JUPITERASC
09-16-2013, 05:54 PM
Has anyone found a reference to the use of planetary days and hours in nativities?

Don't the hour rulers equate with the houses for a given 24-hour period/chart? Couldn't the day ruler be taken as some sort of chart ruler?
I use two of Rumen Kolev's software programs 'Placidus 7' and 'Porphyrius Magus' and each time I calculate a chart, BOTH the day ruler AND the hour ruler are clearly displayed above the chart image - along with other astrological data as well http://www.babylonianastrology.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1 :smile:

tsmall
09-17-2013, 05:12 AM
Has anyone found a reference to the use of planetary days and hours in nativities?

Couldn't the day ruler be taken as some sort of chart ruler? Also, the nights have their own rulers as well, underneath the authority of the day (24-hour) ruler (I assume); would they take precedence for a nocturnal birth?

Couldn't we match the hours ruling a particular day or night to the houses of a chart? Equating the 1st house with the 1st hour, the 12th house with the 2nd hour, etc...? Could this give us useful information? Is there a sound philosophical basis for making the connection?

(Doesn't this remind you of chronocrators?)

The day rulers have nothing to do with diurnal or nocturnal, but they do have their place. Note that the days of the week as we know them are named after certain planets, for certain reasons.

As to the hour ruler, yes, you are partially correct. In determining the chart ruler, even Lilly gives "points" (I hate Lilly's points, lol) for the hour ruler in a nativity.

E.g. In my chart, the hour ruler (in addition to other considerations) is Jupiter, and by being hour ruler/watcher of the nativity, Jupiter is made my Lord of the Geniture.

I may likely be incorrect, but it would take calculating the hour rulers (because they are not based on a 24 hr. clock, but rather the length of day vs. night, divided) and so would have trouble mapping to the houses.

eternalautumn
09-17-2013, 04:55 PM
The day rulers have nothing to do with diurnal or nocturnal, but they do have their place. Note that the days of the week as we know them are named after certain planets, for certain reasons.

Well, since we calculate the day and night hours separately, the first hour of night has a different ruler than the first hour of day, which I figure could be important. Its at least noticable enough that Ive found it noted on a few different sites across the web.

What are the reasons for each day being named after a planet? I knew that they were, just wasnt aware anyone knew why the.4th day was Mercury's day, for example.

As to the hour ruler, yes, you are partially correct. In determining the chart ruler, even Lilly gives "points" (I hate Lilly's points, lol) for the hour ruler in a nativity.

E.g. In my chart, the hour ruler (in addition to other considerations) is Jupiter, and by being hour ruler/watcher of the nativity, Jupiter is made my Lord of the Geniture.

So, if the day and hour ruler are included in an almuten calculation they must be important enough to stand on their own in a way, right?

I may likely be incorrect, but it would take calculating the hour rulers (because they are not based on a 24 hr. clock, but rather the length of day vs. night, divided) and so would have trouble mapping to the houses.

Well, as far as I know, to calculate the hours you start from sunrise of the day and measure to sunset, then divide by 12 for the day. For the night its sunset to sunrise. Seems pretty easy to me to match the first hour with the first house, second hour with the twelfth, etc, for either day or night, depending on the chart sect. But what could we do with that?

JUPITERASC
09-17-2013, 05:15 PM
If you don't mind my asking, would you share how you like to formally or informally employ the two rulers in your analyses?
Planetary Day and Hour is related to Traditional astrology - so there are Traditional rules governing their use :smile:

These rules are easily found from multiple sources - for example here's a link that may be useful to you

Planetary Hours in Renaissance Horary and Electional Astrology http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planetaryhoursrenaissance.html

eternalautumn
09-21-2013, 09:48 PM
I'm so sure there's more to be found here. Ugh. So frustrating.

It would be interesting to set up a weekly schedule based on the days and hours. Perhaps monthly or yearly too. We could make it even more specific by tying in the nativity and chronocrator periods. How cool would that be?

tsmall
09-22-2013, 02:05 PM
What are the reasons for each day being named after a planet? I knew that they were, just wasnt aware anyone knew why the.4th day was Mercury's day, for example.

Well I'm certainly no expert. Each day being named after a planet? I'm sure you can see the correlation? Astrology isn't just a predicitive science, it is also a time keeping method. There is some speculation that astrology has its roots in early agricultural calendars. Each day is named after a specifc planet because each planet has a day over which it presides, or rules. Notice that, no matter which day you start with, they follow in order of the "faces" of the planets. Why do you suppose we have the term "face?" Perhaps because if you are "in the face" of something it means that someting is watching you?

eternalautumn
09-22-2013, 05:07 PM
Well I'm certainly no expert. Each day being named after a planet? I'm sure you can see the correlation? Astrology isn't just a predicitive science, it is also a time keeping method. There is some speculation that astrology has its roots in early agricultural calendars. Each day is named after a specifc planet because each planet has a day over which it presides, or rules. Notice that, no matter which day you start with, they follow in order of the "faces" of the planets. Why do you suppose we have the term "face?" Perhaps because if you are "in the face" of something it means that someting is watching you?

Right, I just thought you said you were going to explain how the 4th day became Mercury's day, for example, etc.

Can you elaborate more on the faces? I thought the planets were in Chaldean order...

JUPITERASC
09-22-2013, 05:18 PM
The origin of the names of the days are explicitly planetary in medieval Latin:

i.e.

dies dominici (Sunday, the lord's day)
die Lune
die Martis
die Mercuri
die Jovis
die Veneris
die Saturni.


In English the Teutonic equivalents of the Greek and Latin gods have been used for some of the names of the days

i.e. Tuesday is Tiw's day, the Teutonic god of war
Wednesday is Wotan's day
Thursday is Thor's day
Friday is Frigg's day.


As we can see the sequence and names of the days of the week are not in the Chaldean order, but nevertheless the sequence and names of the days of the week are closely connected to the Chaldean order :smile:

Two processes interact to produce the sequence of the days of the week:

(1) the fact that the planetary hours follow the Chaldean order

and

(2) the fact that the planet that rules the first hour of each day rules the whole day and gives the day its name http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planetaryhoursarticle.html

tsmall
09-22-2013, 05:21 PM
Right, I just thought you said you were going to explain how the 4th day became Mercury's day, for example, etc.

Can you elaborate more on the faces? I thought the planets were in Chaldean order...

Well, I do believe I said I'm no expert?

The easiest way is to see it.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

You would expect the days to run in Chaldean order, but they don't. However, if you look at the table of the faces, no matter where you start you are looking at the planets in the order of the days of the week. Why? I don't know. Who came up with that? I don't know. All I know is that you can see it.

eternalautumn
09-22-2013, 05:29 PM
No worries tsmall, I think it may be a minor miscommunication.

I see what you mean about the faces, and it is pretty neat. But am I correct in that it only works if you look at all the first faces in order, or the second, etc., instead of 1,2,3...? I wonder what it means...