Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
Title. I'm wondering what the reasons are behind the good and bad houses.
Why is the 2nd house good and the 3rd bad?
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Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
Yes, but the 9th house is good and the 8th house is bad.
(Good and bad = dignity and debility, respectively.)
(Good and bad = dignity and debility, respectively.)
Frank
Well-known member
If you stop thinking in terms of "good" and "bad" this will come to you more easily. It's not all black and white - there are shades of colors involved.
Rebel Uranian
Well-known member
OK, maybe there are people in this world (as opposed to other ones) who don't read parenthesis after all.
Frank
Well-known member
I read it. You need to realize that not just ONE Essential or Accidental dignity or debility make something immediately good or bad. There are a myriad of factors to survey.
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
There are good and bad houses and then there's a separate consideration of strong and weak houses.
Ninth is a good house, but weak. Eighth is a bad weak-ish house. Second is a bad weak-ish house. Third is a good, weak house.
Ninth is a good house, but weak. Eighth is a bad weak-ish house. Second is a bad weak-ish house. Third is a good, weak house.
Fragoso
Well-known member
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Humanitarian
Well-known member
No houses are either bad or good, really, but it's a yes in Traditional Astrology. This Earth is never either 100% black or 100% white, because everything is grey, and it can be either dark grey or light grey, never completely either white, black or grey (Nothing is exactly 50% and 100% when we compare dichotomies). Dignity and debility doesn't corresponds to good and bad, because the concept of good and bad is a separate concept from dignity and debility, since dignity/debility dichotomy is about how comfortable a planet is in a sign/house/degree/term/decan/et cetera inside your natal chart. 3rd house is actually more dignified than other cadent houses other than 9th house, because this house can see the Ascendant well in a Ptolemaic aspect (sextile). 2nd house is averse to the Ascendant, but it's the best aversed house to Ascendant because it is about the value of yourself, and if it's about anything of yourself, it's themes are connected to the Ascendant and not averse (Positionally aversed to the Ascendant though)
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Since the beginningSince when?Those ideas aren't correct.
Fragoso
i.e. TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY
- this thread is on our traditional board
i.e.
a reminder of our Traditional board rules for newbies/beginners:
",,For discussions on Traditional Astrology only.
Note: Typicallytraditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew & Renaissance eras.
The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation
and more on prediction.
Traditionally there ARE bad/good houses
The foregoing comment
is a combination of traditional & modern ideas
"..Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.,"
***Please Read Before Posting On This Board***
This is the Traditional Astrology forum. Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is the home for traditional astrologers. It was created so that traditional astrologers can discuss traditional astrology with each other, without having to justify it to non-traditionalists or be...
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.
Humanitarian
Well-known member
2nd house is a good-ish weak house, because this house is the most dignified and positive house that's aversed to the Ascendant
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
***Please Read Before Posting On This Board***
This is the Traditional Astrology forum. Out of all the different boards in this forum, this one is the home for traditional astrologers. It was created so that traditional astrologers can discuss traditional astrology with each other, without having to justify it to non-traditionalists or be...
www.astrologyweekly.com
The foregoing comment in its entirety
is a combination of traditional & modern ideas
"..Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.,"
on FOR EXAMPLE - one of our GENERAL ASTROLOGY BOARDS
NOTE for beginners
TRADITIONALLY 2ND HOUSE IS GATE OF HADES
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The suns backside
Banned
So Mars in the second house is not considered weak using your logic? But is is considered opposite of rulership, so bad?
Humanitarian
Well-known member
Second house is a slightly good, weak house for me, and yes, Mars in there is bad, because it's the opposite of rulership.
The suns backside
Banned
Oh so just opinion, right, I thought it was an actual rule by how you wrote your post.
No. The places are neither good nor bad. They are either effective or ineffective.
The effective places are those that aspect the Asc which are the 4th, 7th and 10th by square/opposition and the 5th and 9th by trine. The 11th is considered effective because it aspects the Asc by sextile. Doesn't the 3rd place also aspect by sextile? Yes, but there is a difference between the 3rd and the 11th. The 3rd is a cadent place. The 11th is succedent.
There's no such thing as detriment. A planet is either in the sign it rules or it isn't. If you don't believe that, go read Hadrian's chart. "Detriment" didn't keep him from being emperor and it certainly didn't keep him from being a good emperor and there are a million other charts that disprove it.
If you don't believe he was a good emperor, he relinquished some of Trajan's conquests, granted citizenship to people in many of the provinces, started a federal civil service system, reorganized the military introducing a code of conduct and discipline and morale, and he was big on education. He issued an edict establishing a school in every province and he funded them. He was the first of the Five Good Emperors during the Pax Romana.
Detriment is a nothing-burger that someone messed up because they didn't know what they were doing and then the idiot Arabs and Persians made it worse, and then the moronic Medieval astrologers really messed it up.
Outlook
Well-known member
there can never be any such thing as good or bad. the interpretation or grading as such is entirely dependent on opinion and the position of witness or position of bystander, to the trait being exhibited.
for example a person who has Sun in detriment or fall by sign…or the Sun in house positions regarded as such (7th being one example)…is purely fictitious and purely opinion from witness perspective.
the people born in Aquarius and Libra ….and etc house positions….. dont think themselves as being weak. They have different wider markers of self identity that allows them wider perspectives with distinguished abilities to allow them to empathise with other identities. they can walk a mile in your shoes. its actually a **** good thing! they have worked hard at that ability through eons.
ditto mars in libra from a politician working his skill at creating conflict to serve the purpose of redefining a system and thus getting more out of it by shifting the goal posts….isnt doing any such bad act! let me tell you its high skill! there is no mars detriment from a high skill and inter personal maneuvering to gain ground in discussion or argument…or cause one! except from the losing side of course! But then peace and harmony is only good 50% of the time. after that its stagnation and destruction. we need the flurry of discord…the 50%. the mars libra agitators bring in fresh air and provide growth points to avoid decay. how would you label that ‘bad’?
but we, who have a fixed unwavering, unaltering behavioural definition, find it hard to pin them down and we, the crowd…. who cant deal with their earned skill at shape shifting….define this as ‘bad‘! we need to pigeon hole. box them.
etc to all other positions, aspects and terms of ‘bad’, ‘fall’, ‘detriment’.
everything in this dimension and consciousness of One, is composed of the self same energy. it is all 50:50 positive, negative force to create electromegnetism for function. therefore which side you see and identify with, is entirely your own responsibility and viewpoint. its neither right nor wrong. it is just your viewpoint. it changes.
of course we have and use these terms in astrology to signify certain things. typically its a marker of disruption, energy distrubance potential. potential for exhibition of non standard traits! but they arent bad.
for example a person who has Sun in detriment or fall by sign…or the Sun in house positions regarded as such (7th being one example)…is purely fictitious and purely opinion from witness perspective.
the people born in Aquarius and Libra ….and etc house positions….. dont think themselves as being weak. They have different wider markers of self identity that allows them wider perspectives with distinguished abilities to allow them to empathise with other identities. they can walk a mile in your shoes. its actually a **** good thing! they have worked hard at that ability through eons.
ditto mars in libra from a politician working his skill at creating conflict to serve the purpose of redefining a system and thus getting more out of it by shifting the goal posts….isnt doing any such bad act! let me tell you its high skill! there is no mars detriment from a high skill and inter personal maneuvering to gain ground in discussion or argument…or cause one! except from the losing side of course! But then peace and harmony is only good 50% of the time. after that its stagnation and destruction. we need the flurry of discord…the 50%. the mars libra agitators bring in fresh air and provide growth points to avoid decay. how would you label that ‘bad’?
but we, who have a fixed unwavering, unaltering behavioural definition, find it hard to pin them down and we, the crowd…. who cant deal with their earned skill at shape shifting….define this as ‘bad‘! we need to pigeon hole. box them.
etc to all other positions, aspects and terms of ‘bad’, ‘fall’, ‘detriment’.
everything in this dimension and consciousness of One, is composed of the self same energy. it is all 50:50 positive, negative force to create electromegnetism for function. therefore which side you see and identify with, is entirely your own responsibility and viewpoint. its neither right nor wrong. it is just your viewpoint. it changes.
of course we have and use these terms in astrology to signify certain things. typically its a marker of disruption, energy distrubance potential. potential for exhibition of non standard traits! but they arent bad.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Good point well made
illustration of traditionally EFFECTIVE PLACES for beginners, using MERCURY
contrasting with AVERSION - AVERSION is ineffective
