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tsmall
10-04-2011, 02:02 AM
I have <another> silly newbie question...when looking at profections, does bringing the profected house to the ascendent change the accidental diginity, by house placement, of the planets? For example, if the year ruler (or any other planet) is in a cadent house natally, but comes to be in a fixed or angular house, does it then change it's ability to act for that year? Also, if the profection changes the sect of a planet, would that have an influence on the chart?

Culpeper
10-04-2011, 05:08 PM
That is how the profection works. You count around the chart until you find the house of the year you want. You make that the first house. In this new chart the planets in the new angles are strong and effective that year. The planets that are found in cadant houses will be ineffective. If the sect has changed take that into account as well.

The essential dignity stays the same. The classical astrologers considered the so called accidental dignities to be more important because they are horoscopic: That is part of the natal chart. The essental dignities are zodiacal, and used to find the houses ruled by the planets.

JerryRR
10-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Hi Tamara,
I suggest reading,"Classical Astrology for Modern Living." by J. Lee Lehman.Chapter 14 covers Profections,eg Age 42 is 7th House.

J.

JUPITERASC
10-04-2011, 05:27 PM
Hi Tamara,
I suggest reading,"Classical Astrology for Modern Living." by J. Lee Lehman.Chapter 14 covers Profections,eg Age 42 is 7th House. J.
also the original Valens http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf :smile:

tsmall
10-05-2011, 02:36 AM
That is how the profection works. You count around the chart until you find the house of the year you want. You make that the first house. In this new chart the planets in the new angles are strong and effective that year. The planets that are found in cadant houses will be ineffective. If the sect has changed take that into account as well.

The essential dignity stays the same. The classical astrologers considered the so called accidental dignities to be more important because they are horoscopic: That is part of the natal chart. The essental dignities are zodiacal, and used to find the houses ruled by the planets.

Thank you!


Hi Tamara,
I suggest reading,"Classical Astrology for Modern Living." by J. Lee Lehman.Chapter 14 covers Profections,eg Age 42 is 7th House.

J.

OK, I will look into purchasing this one. :smile:

also the original Valens http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf (http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf) :smile:

This one I do have, and am <slowly> making my way through. :cool: Unfortunately, I really want to know everything, immediately, and of course, that is not the way astrology, or any other subject, works.

dr. farr
10-05-2011, 03:17 AM
The place where the count starts, ie the first house, can make a difference: the Egyptian method (which ahs always been the dominant one, and is the one followed by Valens) begins the count at 0 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 0) Paulus of Alexandria differed, and began the count at 1 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 1) I myself have followed the Pauline profection (all of the available authors have chosen to follow the Egyptian method of starting @ 0, including Lehman, Ben Dykes, etc)

In my experience I have found Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method.

tsmall
10-05-2011, 03:33 AM
The place where the count starts, ie the first house, can make a difference: the Egyptian method (which ahs always been the dominant one, and is the one followed by Valens) begins the count at 0 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 0) Paulus of Alexandria differed, and began the count at 1 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 1) I myself have followed the Pauline profection (all of the available authors have chosen to follow the Egyptian method of starting @ 0, including Lehman, Ben Dykes, etc)

In my experience I have found Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method.

dr. farr, I have Ben Dykes Introductions to Traditional Astrology, but admit that I have not yet gotten to the part on profections. To make sure I understand what you are saying, if the 1st year (according to Pauline profections) means the year of the ASC, would that mean that this year, for me (at 42) profectionally (is that a word? it should be...) would bring 8th, and not 7th to the ASC?

JUPITERASC
10-05-2011, 04:46 AM
Whereas the difference is that Valens and many now termed Hellenistic Astrologers time profections as follows:

The ascendant is considered as being time of birth so from birth to the cusp of the 2nd house is considered to relate to the first year of life: from cusp of 2nd to cusp of 3rd encompasses the second year of life (ie from age one to age two) and so on around the natal chart returning to the Ascendant for the twelfth year of life:smile:

dr. farr
10-05-2011, 05:23 AM
With Egyptian profection the ascendant (1st natal house) comes back around at ages 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72 and 84 years of age.

In the lesser known Pauline profection the ascendant (1st natal house) comes back around at ages 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73 and 85 years of age.

So, at age 42, by the generally followed Egyptian profection method the ascendant for the 42nd year would be in the natal 7th; however in Pauline profection the ascendant for the 42nd year would fall in the natal 6th house.

Alice McDermott
10-19-2011, 12:59 AM
Solar Fire enables you to calculate Profections for the actual day of an event. I find these little profections very, very accurate and have started to work with them for timing.

For example, when my son got married the profected true North Node was conjunct his natal Sun, profected Jupiter was conjunct his MC and profected Saturn, ruler of his 7th house, trine his 7th cusp.

Alice

dr. farr
10-19-2011, 02:35 AM
Yes, I find profection to be the most accurate of our predictive tools working from the natal chart (with simple symbolic progression coming in a close second, and the 2 worked together really productive of impressive results); the question is which system of profection to follow-Solar Fire I believe uses the Egyptian method, counting the birth ascending sign as year 0; probably 99% of those using profection follow this method: I have had good results with it too, but have come to prefer the Pauline profection as I have described it in earlier posts.

Alice McDermott
10-20-2011, 11:51 PM
Yes, I find profection to be the most accurate of our predictive tools working from the natal chart (with simple symbolic progression coming in a close second, and the 2 worked together really productive of impressive results); the question is which system of profection to follow-Solar Fire I believe uses the Egyptian method, counting the birth ascending sign as year 0; probably 99% of those using profection follow this method: I have had good results with it too, but have come to prefer the Pauline profection as I have described it in earlier posts.

Hi dr farr

Do you know of a program that will calculate the Pauline system for daily Profections?

I love to try new techniques, but found the general approach to Profections a little to vague for me - but when I realised Solar Fire would calculate their daily movement and they had exact 'hits' for important events in the life I was sold on them.

They can be so accurate that it can boggle your mind. They even connect into the charts of other members of the family:

For example, when my oldest son's sister was born he had profected Ascendant-South Node exactly conjunct her natal MC; profected Venus conjunct her Descendant; profected Mars conjunct her Neptune (there is a story to this one - she had Neptune in the 8th house and died of more or less drowning during the Darwin Cyclone of 1974, my eldest son has always felt responsible for her death as, during a fight, he told her he wished she was dead a few hours before it happened).

At the birth of his first brother he had Profected Sun conjunct his brother's MC; profected Ascendant square his brother's North Node - and this brother was induced!

At the birth of his 2nd brother he had Profected Sun conjunct his brother's Venus; profected Neptune conjunct his brother's Ascendant; profected Descendant conjunct his brother's Mars and profected Venus square.

All of these contacts were under one degree.

If I have exact times of birth I now use Daily Profections and Daily Age Harmonics for timing more than any other method.

Alice

byjove
03-22-2012, 03:06 PM
I've just come back to this topic now and I wonder about the philosophy behind it? Why does a sign or place take over/represent/have control of major affairs in a life and why a year?

I've just reconstructed the years of my life using both the Egyptian and Pauline profection and I get some correlation with both, but not enough. There are a few significant years where I don't see the bang I should. Is it just a matter of following the ruler of the sign that represents the year, observe the natal position for clues etc.? I'm surely missing something.

Vista
03-22-2012, 03:25 PM
Solar Fire enables you to calculate Profections for the actual day of an event. I find these little profections very, very accurate and have started to work with them for timing.

For example, when my son got married the profected true North Node was conjunct his natal Sun, profected Jupiter was conjunct his MC and profected Saturn, ruler of his 7th house, trine his 7th cusp.

Alice

I have Solar Fire version 7.3. Could you tell me where one would find this option of calculating profections?

Vista
03-22-2012, 03:28 PM
Yes, I find profection to be the most accurate of our predictive tools working from the natal chart (with simple symbolic progression coming in a close second, and the 2 worked together really productive of impressive results); the question is which system of profection to follow-Solar Fire I believe uses the Egyptian method, counting the birth ascending sign as year 0; probably 99% of those using profection follow this method: I have had good results with it too, but have come to prefer the Pauline profection as I have described it in earlier posts.

Is there significance when the ASC is brought to the current years profection? Also, is there any difference when one is born at the beginning of January, i.e. instead of showing age 36 bringing the ASC to the first house it's shows age 37. I suppose it's based on Pauline or Egyptian method?

JUPITERASC
03-22-2012, 09:05 PM
I've just come back to this topic now and I wonder about the philosophy behind it? Why does a sign or place take over/represent/have control of major affairs in a life and why a year?

I've just reconstructed the years of my life using both the Egyptian and Pauline profection and I get some correlation with both, but not enough. There are a few significant years where I don't see the bang I should. Is it just a matter of following the ruler of the sign that represents the year, observe the natal position for clues etc.? I'm surely missing something.
byjove Omnisphericus has a great thread entitled "Profections (Praxis):smile:
This is the basic technique given by Paulus of Annual Profections of the Ascendant, i.e. profection of the Ascendant from one sign to the next for each year of life. The Ruler of the Sign in which the Ascendant is falling in that particular year is called 'The Lord of the Year".
This technique is quite simple and you do not need to calculate degrees, only signs.
If you are born with Aries rising, on the Solar Return the next year (when you are 1 year old) the Profected Ascendant would be in Taurus and the Lord of the Year would be Venus.

The Ages 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, 96 and etc., are the 'Profection Return' (to invent a title xD), the Ascendant in those years is the same as it was at the birth, so the Lord of the Year is the same too.

Years 1, 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73, 85, 97 are given to the 2nd sign from the Ascendant.

Here's a chart:
27162

The Lord of the Year is having the same function as the Lord of the Year at nativity. It is most significant planet, ruling the place where the Soul (the Sky) and Body (earth) are merging (at the Ascendant).

Here's what Paulus says about the Lord of the year in profections:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47191

byjove
03-22-2012, 10:43 PM
Thanks again, I'll get stuck in!

dr. farr
03-23-2012, 02:38 AM
Remember to profect all the chart elements, not only the ascendant, and then correlate the profected positions to the natal ones. Also, just as in SR and progressions and even transits, not every year will be dramatic or a stand-out one; many years will be pretty much just "average", for most people at least, with nothing especially outstanding happening, either way.
Then their are the "big years", dramatic years; these should be seen in whatever predictive method we might be using, such as profection...

MSO
03-23-2012, 04:09 AM
So if I understand this correctly, when the planets and points are profected into different signs, you treat them as if they're in those signs in the natal chart with regards to the power they have that year (this is assuming you use whole signs)?

So if my Sun which is natally in Libra 3rd House was profected all the way around into Virgo 2nd House, the Sun would play only a moderately important part of this year due to being in a succedent house?

dr. farr
03-23-2012, 04:21 AM
Yes that could be part of it; but the Sun profected into Virgo would be delineated as the Sun influence (ie, Sun in Virgo) for that profection year; profected planets relating by conjunction to natal planet positions (like in transits/progressions) are also of prime importance for the profection year. So in your example: Sun porfected into natal Virgo, and say Jupiter is in the natal Virgo: so we would look at (profected) Sun conjunct (sign conjunct like the Hellenists used) natal Jupiter, as operative in that profection year (ie, defacto Sun conjunct Jupiter influence in that profected year)

MSO
03-23-2012, 04:23 AM
So you would delineate a profected chart by comparing it to the natal and looking for aspects (or just conjunctions)? And you would delineate the profected chart as if it were a natal chart for that year? Seeing as to how the Sun would always be in the 3rd House (in the profected chart) you'd only look at the sign its in, right?

dr. farr
03-23-2012, 04:33 AM
Yes (to all of your questions) that's my understanding of using profection charts-at least that is the way I do it:w00t:!
I use only profection conjunctions (sign conjunctions included) with the natal planetary positions; also any profection planet longitudinal conjunction with a star.

!4C
02-17-2013, 01:09 PM
With Egyptian profection the ascendant (1st natal house) comes back around at ages 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72 and 84 years of age.

In the lesser known Pauline profection the ascendant (1st natal house) comes back around at ages 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73 and 85 years of age.

So, at age 42, by the generally followed Egyptian profection method the ascendant for the 42nd year would be in the natal 7th; however in Pauline profection the ascendant for the 42nd year would fall in the natal 6th house.So what is the deal with the 1 year offset in the Pauline method? It's like saying life doesn't start until you survive the first year trial period. :lol: More seriously, does it discount infancy as creation phase and not a valid growth phase? I think some programming begins after birth (at least lower brain) but the brain is still in physical development up to at least 1.5 years, so there is some over lap. I'm not sure about the particulars. I'm not a human development expert, but the implications are interesting.

JUPITERASC
02-17-2013, 02:15 PM
So what is the deal with the 1 year offset in the Pauline method? It's like saying life doesn't start until you survive the first year trial period. :lol: More seriously, does it discount infancy as creation phase and not a valid growth phase? I think some programming begins after birth (at least lower brain) but the brain is still in physical development up to at least 1.5 years, so there is some over lap. I'm not sure about the particulars. I'm not a human development expert, but the implications are interesting.
I was also taught to check our PROFECTIONS. That's where each year you graduate a SIGN for your rising so that every 12th year (since we start at ZERO) we repeat our natal rising sign. WHEN you profect to what is typically your 7th house rising then that is your focus that year. Or I would also think that, for example, since I am Pisces rising....after my birthday next Wed I profect to a Virgo rising which is my 7th house.

HOWEVER, with transiting Saturn in Libra squaring my natal Venus in Cancer 17 degrees....where it'll retrograde so I'll get a 3 time pass over.....I am thinking that will null and void my 7th house focus this time.

Drat. ahahahaha.

Again, the RIGHT fella is WORTH the wait! :biggrin:

Here is a PROFECTION WHEEL.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/CorpusChristian1/Astrology/ProfectionWheel.jpg


Interesting and relevant historical comment posted also by dr. farr on that same thread - I have highlighted both quoted posts with 'bold' at various junctures in order to add emphasis :smile:
The Greco/Roman astrologers made very extensive use of profections in predictive work; the method deserves much more attention than it has been accorded over the past 100 years; I favor it far more than transits (no offense, please!), and I believe I frequently derive more specific indications from it than from simple symbolic progression or even Solar Returns (of course I often follow the advice of Charles Carter and compare indications from 2 or sometimes all 3 of the methods applied to the subject chart)

The wonderful profection chart above, and Amy's excellent comments, represent the original concepts regarding profection and "how to profect", and these should be followed by all beginners and other interested students.

However, I have been influenced a great deal by Paulus Alexandrianus and Olympiodorus in their slight modification of profection:

except for them,

all ancient astologers applied the profection starting at 0 years of age (exactly as shown on the profection wheel);
thus at age 12 the cycle starts again, then at 24, and so on.

Paulus/Olympiodorus start at the "first year of life", so, in a way, their profection is by a factor of 13 (not of 12 as found in all other authorities**) Thus, in Pauline profection, the cycle begins at "1", then the cycle starts again at 13, then at 26, and so on.

Technically this is INCORRECT (compared with all other historical authorities),
yet this is the method I have come to practice relative to profections, and which has worked extremely well for me
(I am not advocating this Pauline profection to any persons other than advanced practitioners, and to them only for experimental purposes)

There are several examples of Pauline profection which I had posted on skyscript, and an example here on AW are my posts to the thread "Cause of Death" (by AW member Backy) in the Natal Astrology section. Another AW member also made posts to that thread based upon the (historically) "correct" way to do profections (the by 12 method, rather than the Pauline by 13), and it is interesting to compare the differences between the indications derived by each method, as elaborated in hose postings.

(**Paulus-358 AD-also used a "by 13" calculation for dodekatemorion ramifications, rather than the more ancient "by 12" calculation-also known as Egyptian dodekatemorion-followed by virtually all of the other hellenist authorities, from Dorotheus of Sidon on down through Rhetorius)

!4C
02-17-2013, 03:31 PM
In the lesser known Pauline profection the ascendant (1st natal house) comes back around at ages 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73 and 85 years of age.So this sequence was an error? It's a period of 13, not an offset? That is what I initially expected. I was really reaching to come up with an explanation for an offset. However I'm the king of creative BS, so mission accomplished. :biggrin:

That leads to the next question, is this difference of period to synchronize with important cycles in the transits? Maybe a more accurate period is not a whole number. What would be the chances that it is a whole number?

tsmall
02-17-2013, 11:42 PM
So this sequence was an error? It's a period of 13, not an offset? That is what I initially expected. I was really reaching to come up with an explanation for an offset. However I'm the king of creative BS, so mission accomplished. :biggrin:

I'm not terribly familiar with the Pauline method, but I think it is an offset. If you notice, it's more of where you start the count. 13+12=25. 25+12=37 and so on.

That leads to the next question, is this difference of period to synchronize with important cycles in the transits? Maybe a more accurate period is not a whole number. What would be the chances that it is a whole number?

I'm not sure this is addressing your question, but I'm not sure I completely understand the question either. :smile:

I'm not by any means an expert, but I don't believe profections have anything at all to do with transits. It is a means of directing the ASC through the signs. For annual profections, the ASC moves one 30* arc per year. Yet another reason that I prefer to use whole signs for natal charts, because it is easier to see it...

An example. My ASC is at 14* Libra. Each year around my birthday the ASC will have profected in zodiacal motion to that degree of the next sign. So on my first birthday the profected ASC was at 14* Scorpio, and so on.

What I think you might be missing is that during that year the ASC actually continues moving, each month to a new sign, and each day to a new degree (or fraction there of.)

So this year (which for me started with my Solar return in September 2012) my profected ASC was in Taurus, my natal 8th. This brings the ASC to the 8th, making the 8th the first.

If I look for today, Feb 17 2013, we have Taurus for the year, but Virgo for the month and Virgo for the day. I have never seen anyone use monthly/daily profections to explain them, but it would seem that much like primary directions when the ASC comes to a planet or key natal point we might look for an event, especially if there are other indications/testimonies for one.

They way that I have mostly seen (and use them myself at this stage of learning) is in conjunction with the Solar Return. We would look to see who the Lord of the profection year is, and then look at his position in the SR chart, as well as the position of the SR year ruler.

dr. farr
02-18-2013, 03:46 AM
By implication in starting the count (of the first year of life) at 1 (instead of at 0, as in the Egyptian method) the prenatal time is obviously taken into account as a time factor: thus by Egyptian 0 is used for the birth year (not turning into a 1 until 1 year after birth) whereas in Pauline 1 is used for the entire birth year, turning into 2 at the return of the birth date, etc...


(Note: I am not aware of any of the current "leaders"/authors of the Traditionalist revival, or of the neo-Hellenist movement, using either Pauline profection or Pauline dodekatemorion: ALL use Egyptain profection and Egyptian dodekatemorion; when I post about Pauline profection or dodeks, I am referring only to what I use, and am not attempting to proselytize; I found these variant techniques {the Pauline} in the old literature, and tested them out, and liked the results, so have continued to use them; whether or not the Pauline are superior to, equal to or inferior to the Egyptian profections and dodeks, I cannot say, only that they have worked to my personal satisfaction)

tsmall
02-18-2013, 04:11 AM
(Note: I am not aware of any of the current "leaders"/authors of the Traditionalist revival, or of the neo-Hellenist movement, using either Pauline profection or Pauline dodekatemorion: ALL use Egyptain profection and Egyptian dodekatemorion; when I post about Pauline profection or dodeks, I am referring only to what I use, and am not attempting to proselytize; I found these variant techniques {the Pauline} in the old literature, and tested them out, and liked the results, so have continued to use them; whether or not the Pauline are superior to, equal to or inferior to the Egyptian profections and dodeks, I cannot say, only that they have worked to my personal satisfaction)

I think this is something that often gets missed, dr. farr. We look at astrologers today and see the back and forth over which technique is considered "technically correct" and argue unto death (not just in modern vs. neo-traditional, but in the traditional) about which way is the correct way. Valens, as confusing to read as he might be, was at least explicit in explaining the other methods that he knew of for doing things, whether he favored them or not. The more we explore the "new" texts that have come to light, the more we can see that each astrologer/master had his own way of doing things. It's a reminder, I think, that it is important to study the old methods and their variations as given, and then try them all out to see which one works best for us as individuals.

Astrology is a language. We all can agree on that. The real question is which parts, words, grammar and sentence structure does the astrologer use in order to express his/her meaning? Or more appropriately read the chart? English, as spoken, is different from England to Canada to Australia to the US. We are speaking the "same" language, but how we use it is..user defined.

JUPITERASC
02-18-2013, 06:16 PM
....Astrology is a language. We all can agree on that. The real question is which parts, words, grammar and sentence structure does the astrologer use in order to express his/her meaning? Or more appropriately read the chart? English, as spoken, is different from England to Canada to Australia to the US. We are speaking the "same" language, but how we use it is..user defined.
Symbols are created to depict Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Asc/Desc/MC/IC and so on
AND THEN placed within a symbolic circle
so that those SYMBOLIC IMAGES for planets may be 'translated' into 'language' and 'grammar' BEFORE being 'interpreted'

A symbol has endless meanings, dependent on the context.

AND, there are multiple language formats for the 'translation' of any symbolic astrological chart :smile:

Those planetary symbols are 'translated' by millions of individuals worldwide
FROM symbolic form INTO their own native language, be it French, German, Spanish, Russian, Greek, Roumanian, Tibetan, Eskimo and so on

dr. farr
02-19-2013, 03:36 AM
"A symbol is an external representation of an interior Reality"
(old hermetic axiom)

JUPITERASC
01-23-2016, 04:15 PM
So this sequence was an error?

It's a period of 13, not an offset?

That is what I initially expected.

UPDATE

EXPLANATION OF period of 13 :smile:
DODEKATEMORIA http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/dodekatemorion.html
Discussion at http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8999



I was really reaching to come up with an explanation for an offset.
However I'm the king of creative BS, so mission accomplished. :biggrin:

That leads to the next question, is this difference of period to synchronize with important cycles in the transits?
Maybe a more accurate period is not a whole number.
What would be the chances that it is a whole number?

waybread
01-23-2016, 07:36 PM
This thread may be of interest:
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1338990298

JUPITERASC
01-24-2016, 12:20 AM
INTRODUCING PROFECTIONS

7 STARS ASTROLOGY http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=362

'....Profections are one of the oldest, most important, and easiest predictive techniques to learn....' :smile:

waybread
01-24-2016, 01:02 AM
Seriously, JA? I've looked at a few, and have not found them transparently obvious.

Have you got a few charts in mind to post and delineate?

JUPITERASC
01-24-2016, 01:43 AM
The place where the count starts, ie the first house, can make a difference:
the Egyptian method (which ahs always been the dominant one, and is the one followed by Valens)
begins the count at 0 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 0)

Paulus of Alexandria differed, and began the count at 1
(in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 1)

I myself have followed the Pauline profection
(all of the available authors have chosen to follow the Egyptian method of starting @ 0, including Lehman, Ben Dykes, etc)

In my experience I have found Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method.


Paulus gave one of the clearer expositions of the basic technique (Ch. 31, from Greenbaum trans., 2001):As many years as the nativity should spin out,
we pass these through from the hour-marking zōidion [sign],
giving the first year of engendered time to the Hōroskopos [ascending sign]
and the second to the post-ascension of the Hōroskopos [2nd place],
and so on for the rest in the following zōidia [signs],
until the 12th number should be completed.
Basic Technique: Annual Profections of the Ascendant :smile:

Paulus quote illustrates basic profections,
of Ascendant from one sign to next for each year of life.
Paulus gives examples, of how the Profection ruler becomes “lord of the year”.
The technique is easy - requires no computer software,
there are no specific degrees invlved,
rather just discrete hops from one place in the chart
to the next
at intervals of time.
The technique is “circumambulation”, meaning a “walking around” the chart. Seven Stars Astrology

Monk
01-24-2016, 02:58 AM
Hi Jup, eekk an archaeoastronomer,

I agree with some but not with others, i'm dealing with birth charts, i can make a difference in area of RECTIFIED FROM APPROX. TIME OF BIRTH!

For Helena P. Blavatsky, she never knew time of birth, however most astrology sites now put it as 02:17am on 12th August 1831, this is dubious, being Rectified from Approx. Time by astrologers!

For her who was born in a country that followed the Julian Calendar during time of birth we get a date of 31st July 1831, but this is a Julian Date, thus 12 days have to be added, for true accurate interpretation, so as far as i know 12 August 1831, will give a date for astrology programmes!

Time of birth is far more dubious, due to rectified time by astrologers, why choose 02:17am???

Please scroll down to source notes on link below:-

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blavatsky,_Helena_P.

The above doesn't seem to work, but i'm sure you can find it by search engine!

Yes on day in location, Sirius was rising 11 mins 18 secs before Sunrise, but choosing 02:17 am was putting "Muddy Waters" on top, sorry for musical pun, we will never know time of birth for Blavatsky, but choosing 02:17 am is very odd, as ALNILAM WAS RISING!!

Graph on private members download:-

JUPITERASC
01-24-2016, 03:14 AM
Hi Jup, eekk an archaeoastronomer,

I agree with some but not with others, i'm dealing with birth charts, i can make a difference in area of RECTIFIED FROM APPROX. TIME OF BIRTH!

For Helena P. Blavatsky, she never knew time of birth, however most astrology sites now put it as 02:17am on 12th August 1831, this is dubious, being Rectified from Approx. Time by astrologers!

For her who was born in a country that followed the Julian Calendar during time of birth we get a date of 31st July 1831, but this is a Julian Date, thus 12 days have to be added, for true accurate interpretation, so as far as i know 12 August 1831, will give a date for astrology programmes!

Time of birth is far more dubious, due to rectified time by astrologers, why choose 02:17am???

Please scroll down to source notes on link below:-

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Blavatsky,_Helena_P.

The above doesn't seem to work, but i'm sure you can find it by search engine!

Yes on day in location, Sirius was rising 11 mins 18 secs before Sunrise, but choosing 02:17 am was putting "Muddy Waters" on top, sorry for musical pun, we will never know time of birth for Blavatsky, but choosing 02:17 am is very odd, as ALNILAM WAS RISING!!

Graph on private members download:-


Hi Monk :smile:
That's interesting,
but reliance on a time that is not known for certain means
profecting the chart would be challenging
and not necessarily reliable

Monk
01-24-2016, 03:27 AM
It would be easy to connect Blavatsky to Sirius, but why do astrologers make a soup on top?

Also, obviously you follow Sirius connections, but Alnilam is far more difficult, it seems that some esoteric astrologers have rectified time to correspond to Alnilam rising....02:17am as given on most astrology websites...very dubious!

http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Helena_Blavatsky

JUPITERASC
01-24-2016, 05:04 AM
It would be easy to connect Blavatsky to Sirius, but why do astrologers make a soup on top?

Also, obviously you follow Sirius connections, but Alnilam is far more difficult, it seems that some esoteric astrologers have rectified time to correspond to Alnilam rising....02:17am as given on most astrology websites...very dubious!

http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Helena_Blavatsky
Different astrologers often rectify charts to different times of birth for the same chart Monk, so dubious :smile:

Monk
01-24-2016, 06:12 AM
I have no idea when God was born, or Son of God, icons matter, and to lesser degree Blavatsky...are we fooling everybody, by esoteric doctrine???

How can we get astrology right, when icons are very dubiously activated???

Esoteric Religion has a major role in our progress forward, i'm not sure we should take that STEP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sovalis
05-14-2016, 08:28 PM
Wonder, being new to Profections, is there any significance to the profection ascendant returning to the first house?

JUPITERASC
05-15-2016, 12:07 AM
Wonder,
being new to Profections,
is there any significance
to the profection ascendant returning to the first house?


As there are twelve houses,
the profected ascendant returns to the first house
every twelve years :smile:


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/CorpusChristian1/Astrology/ProfectionWheel.jpg

Alkaid
05-15-2016, 03:57 AM
Wonder, being new to Profections, is there any significance to the profection ascendant returning to the first house?

It should be a fairly big year, with changes or events that greatly influence the next 11 profected years thereafter or the rest of the life, even moreso if the ascendant is well disposed.

Personal revelations, finding a new purpose in life, or new motivations aren't uncommon.

theV
08-06-2016, 11:07 AM
I am currently learning about Profection so it would be nice if this thread gets activated again to discuss.

Jehan
08-06-2016, 02:14 PM
I am currently learning about Profection so it would be nice if this thread gets activated again to discuss.

Have you read this article? http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=362

theV
08-06-2016, 02:24 PM
Yes, I did. But I found it dreadful to follow it, I lost myself reading it. Can we have a famous person chart and examine it?

JUPITERASC
08-06-2016, 02:39 PM
Yes, I did.
But I found it dreadful to follow it,
I lost myself reading it.

Can we have a famous person chart and examine it?


Major issue with famous person charts is a lack of reliable time of birth :smile:
What did you find most difficult to understand at http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=362

theV
08-06-2016, 02:51 PM
Major issue with famous person charts is a lack of reliable time of birth :smile:
What did you find most difficult to understand at http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=362

Everything I guess. I felt better watching a tutorial video. There are many unnecessary explanation in the article.

JUPITERASC
08-06-2016, 03:15 PM
Everything I guess. I felt better watching a tutorial video.
There are many unnecessary explanation in the article.


What part of the article at http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?p=362 did you consider an unnecessary explanation?
and
what part did you consider not explained sufficiently? :smile:

Jehan
08-06-2016, 03:26 PM
Just try and focus on the profected Ascedant, the profected ruler of the asc first. In what Sign is it posited. What are the affairs ruled by that sign/house? Look to see if there are any transits, eclipses, and other such movements to the ruler. Where is the ruler in the natal chart? What aspects to the ruler are made by other planets? Where is the ruler in the solar return? Write it down as you work these questions out. That would provide a good starting point.

tsmall
08-06-2016, 11:55 PM
V,

The beginning of profections is to be able to count them. JUP has a chart. Maybe it can be linked again? Find the sign that profects to the ASC; the ruler of that sign is called the Lord/Lady of the year. Look at the signs ruled by that planet as they will be active. Next look to see if any planets are in those signs; they too will be activated during that year.

Next see if there is an exaltation ruler of the sign profecting to the ASC. Same as above. These activated planets, houses, and aspects (made in the natal) are going to be active during the year. Transits to and by these "active" planets will likely produce events. This is where we begin to understand that not all transits are equal. If a planet isn't activated, transits to it are likely to be non-starters.

At this point, most natal astrologers would then cast the SR chart, and knowing which planets have a key role, begin delineation from there.

JUPITERASC
08-07-2016, 12:02 AM
V,

The beginning of profections is to be able to count them.
JUP has a chart. Maybe it can be linked again?


How to count profections using the chart requested by tsmall :smile:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/CorpusChristian1/Astrology/ProfectionWheel.jpg




Find the sign that profects to the ASC; the ruler of that sign is called the Lord/Lady of the year.
Look at the signs ruled by that planet as they will be active.
Next look to see if any planets are in those signs; they too will be activated during that year.

Next see if there is an exaltation ruler of the sign profecting to the ASC. Same as above.
These activated planets, houses, and aspects (made in the natal) are going to be active during the year.
Transits to and by these "active" planets will likely produce events.
This is where we begin to understand that not all transits are equal.
If a planet isn't activated, transits to it are likely to be non-starters.

At this point, most natal astrologers would then cast the SR chart, and knowing which planets have a key role, begin delineation from there.

Chrysalis
02-08-2019, 02:30 PM
That is how the profection works. You count around the chart until you find the house of the year you want. You make that the first house. In this new chart the planets in the new angles are strong and effective that year. The planets that are found in cadant houses will be ineffective. If the sect has changed take that into account as well.

The essential dignity stays the same. The classical astrologers considered the so called accidental dignities to be more important because they are horoscopic: That is part of the natal chart. The essental dignities are zodiacal, and used to find the houses ruled by the planets.

So the planets do change houses ? Some people say they do and some people say they don't.

For example say you have a 7th house profection year, so the 7th house for that year becomes the 1st house, the 8th house becomes the 2nd house, the 9th house becomes the 3rd house, and say in the 9th house you have saturn, but as this house is cadent, saturn can't do much.

So the planets stay in the natal signs, so the dignity stays the same, but because of the change of houses, their energy can be strengthened or weakened.

Am i understanding this correctly, anybody ?

tsmall
02-12-2019, 01:45 AM
So the planets do change houses ? Some people say they do and some people say they don't.

For example say you have a 7th house profection year, so the 7th house for that year becomes the 1st house, the 8th house becomes the 2nd house, the 9th house becomes the 3rd house, and say in the 9th house you have saturn, but as this house is cadent, saturn can't do much.

So the planets stay in the natal signs, so the dignity stays the same, but because of the change of houses, their energy can be strengthened or weakened.

Am i understanding this correctly, anybody ?

Yes, you are.

Chrysalis
08-11-2019, 09:54 AM
My LOY Mars is almost ready to be taken over by Venus, thankfully.

Mars has had me twice this year, causing mayhem. All i've learnt from it, is what my natal mars is all about, but i knew this anyway.