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tsmall
08-29-2011, 10:33 PM
This might be a silly question, but...if one is using Lilly's table of dignities and debilities, would they only apply if using the same house system he did? I ask beacuse though planets stay in the same sign, and degree of sign, the various house systems can place planets in different houses. This can have a big difference regarding accidental dignity, and from what I have read could affect a planet's ability to "act" in a chart.

BobZemco
08-29-2011, 11:12 PM
No, the House System wouldn't matter. Lily is using a modified version of Ptolemy's Pterms. Well, I can't get it to format right. The "missing" Planet is Jupiter.

Aries
♃ 6

♀ 8

☿ 7

♂ 5

♄ 4

Taurus
♀ 8

☿ 7

♃ 7

♄ 2

♂ 6

Gemini
☿ 7

♃ 6

♀ 7

♂ 6

♄ 4

Cancer
♂ 6

♃ 7

☿ 7

♀ 7

♄ 3

Leo
♃ 6

☿ 7

♄ 6

♀ 6

♂ 5

Virgo
☿ 7

♀ 6

♃ 5

♄ 6

♂ 6

Libra
♄ 6

♀ 7

♃ 8

☿ 6

♂ 3

Scorpio
♂ 6

♀ 7

♃ 8

☿ 6

♄ 3

Sagittarius
♃ 8

♀ 6

☿ 5

♄ 6

♂ 5

Capricornus
♀ 6

☿ 6

♃ 7

♄ 6

♂ 5

Aquarius
♄ 6

☿ 6

♀ 8

♃ 5

♂ 5

Pisces
♀ 8

♃ 6

☿ 6

♂ 5

♄ 5

tsmall
08-29-2011, 11:35 PM
No, the House System wouldn't matter. Lily is using a modified version of Ptolemy's Pterms.





Thank you! However, (again, prob. silly questions) since house position can change accidental dignity, would it be better to skip accidental, keep essential, and look at Ptolemy's Pterms instead?

JUPITERASC
08-29-2011, 11:55 PM
Thank you! However, (again, prob. silly questions) since house position can change accidental dignity, would it be better to skip accidental, keep essential, and look at Ptolemy's Pterms instead?
House position can change accidental dignity but Accidental Dignity is a separate kind of dignity from Ptolemy's Pterms Dignities and therefore, as BobZemco has said, house position of the planet has no effect on Ptolemy's Pterms.

That is because Ptolemy's Pterms designate various groups of degrees, within each Sign, to particular planets.
Alternative versions of terms differ from each other by designating varying groups of degrees within each Sign to various alternative/differing planets

That means with regard to Ptolemy's Pterms as posted by BobZemco, Jupiter is assigned the first 6 degrees of Aries, Venus is assigned the next 8 degrees of Aries, Mercury is assigned the following 7 degrees of Aries, Mars is assigned the following 5 degrees of Aries and Saturn is assigned the last 4 degrees of Aries - when added, the five groups of terms is the number of degrees in the Sign of Aries

Therefore it is the Sign that is most important when calculating Dignities and Debilities using terms
Any planet within the first six degrees of Aries is in the Terms of Jupiter, in the Exaltation of the Sun, in the Domicile of Mars, in the Face of Mars and in the Triplicity of the Sun in a Day chart and in the Triplicity of Jupiter in a Night chart

Then the house position is taken into account for additional 'accidental dignity' (there are of course accidental debilities as well, such as the planet being located in the 12th, 8th or 6th house or being Retrograde or being Slow in motion et al
Astrologers use the terms they prefer (there are slight differences) There are Egyptian Terms, Dorothean Terms and more than one version of Ptolemy's Terms, as always it is a matter of personal experimentation before one decides which terms are most accurate :smile:

tsmall
08-30-2011, 12:21 AM
Therefore it is the Sign that is most important when calculating Dignities and Debilities using terms



Thanks, JUPITERASC, that answered my last question. :happy: