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tobby
08-27-2011, 01:30 PM
Looking at the birth chart of a friend I noticed that she has all her personal planets placed either in sings where they either are in fall or in detriment. More specifically:

Sun: Aquarius (detriment)
Moon: Capricorn (detriment)
Mercury: Pisces (detriment)
Venus: Aries (detriment)
Mars: Cancer (fall)

Could this be an element that indicates difficulties in self-expression or a difficult life path?
I'd be interested to hear anything that could be said about a case like that.

astrologer50
08-27-2011, 05:34 PM
Looking at the birth chart of a friend I noticed that she has all her personal planets placed either in sings where they either are in fall or in detriment. More specifically:

Sun: Aquarius (detriment)
Moon: Capricorn (detriment)
Mercury: Pisces (detriment)
Venus: Aries (detriment)
Mars: Cancer (fall)

Could this be an element that indicates difficulties in self-expression or a difficult life path?
I'd be interested to hear anything that could be said about a case like that.

Welcome to AW,

I use Equal House system (where each cusp is same as Ascendant) and am a modern astrologer. Lots of newcomers come into Astrology/forums and get a free chart from www.astro.com (http://www.astro.com/) and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few others if you wish to experiment…..

the terminology you are referring to is what Traditional astrologers use (there aren't many on here)

Do you have permission to post this chart? If not, please amend, blocking out all data….Astrological data are highly sensitive. Therefore ask you to take the protection of your personal data of third persons very seriously. If you wish to post the chart of a person known to you, you must have their permission to do so or better still anonymise the name and all birth/personal data. If this is not the case, please refrain from posting this chart.

What I would look for is a retrograde Jupiter and venus singleton.
She is not a typical aquarian either as her sun is overshadowed by Saturn, making her more Capricorn/saturnian

she also has a grand Square involving mars, jupiter, moon and venus.

venus square moon
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24933&highlight=venus+square+moon (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24933&highlight=venus+square+moon)

Grand Square or Cross
http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/grandcross_t-square.shtml (http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/grandcross_t-square.shtml)
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_cross_(astrology) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_cross_(astrology))
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html)
http://www.strangehouse.com/aspect-configurations/index.php (http://www.strangehouse.com/aspect-configurations/index.php)

So, if after learning all the basics, you still want to research detriments, falls and alike try here..

detriment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detriment_(astrology) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detriment_(astrology))
http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/understanding-the-three-debilities-of-detriment-fall-and-being-perigrine/ (http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/understanding-the-three-debilities-of-detriment-fall-and-being-perigrine/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_dignity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_dignity)
http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/understanding-the-three-debilities-of-detriment-fall-and-being-perigrine/ (http://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/understanding-the-three-debilities-of-detriment-fall-and-being-perigrine/)

Exaltation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaltation_(astrology) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaltation_(astrology))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_(astrology) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_(astrology))

Culpeper
08-27-2011, 05:36 PM
Keep in mind that for the day any chart is cast, the positions of the planets in the signs and the aspect they make to each other are the same for everyone on earth. Therefore, to predict anything about an individual it is necessary to look at the houses of the horoscope first. The houses and other factors connected to the ascendant degree are specific to the native. The angular houses are very strong and planets in them are powerful and effective. Planets in houses following the angular ones are weaker but still very effective especially if in the 11th or 5th house. Planets in the houses before the angles are weak and ineffective.

In the chart you show using whole sign and all ten planets, there are six planets in the anglular houses and three in succeedant house. Only Mercury is in a cadant house the 9th. However, the 9th is considered a fortunate place. Therefore this is a very good chart for the native. These horoscopic placements are most important and the dignities and debilities secondary in a natal chart.

Rebel Uranian
08-27-2011, 05:59 PM
My sun is in detriment in Aquarius and it is in my 1st house, allowing effortless expression of inner and outer self. My moon is in domicile in Cancer and it is in my weak 6th house both ruled and opposed by Mercury. My Saturn fall in Aries creates a minor grand trine. Mercury in the 12th proves much more interesting than the 1st (or 3rd.) Dignities and debilities are definitely of use, but they are not the thing you want to look for primarily. If all your planets were in domicile or exaltation, your life would go quite boringly according to common expectations, with all the planets taking on behaviors they're normally associated with and areas of life they're normally associated with. Your friend might have a life full of challenges, but look at the other things (planets, houses, aspects) too to see how that'll play out. It might just play out for the better, as do the planets in my chart I'm not so thrilled about. Once you understand your chart, you like your chart, at least proportionally to how your like yourself/your life.

tobby
08-27-2011, 06:36 PM
Thank you for the advice astrologer50, correction is made. I know about the equal house system and I've seen many people here recommending it, should I also post the chart using this one instead of placidus?

Thank you all for your interesting and useful insights, every comment is welcome.

astrologer50
08-27-2011, 07:03 PM
Thank you for the advice astrologer50, correction is made. I know about the equal house system and I've seen many people here recommending it, should I also post the chart using this one instead of placidus?

Thank you all for your interesting and useful insights, every comment is welcome.

placidus is the majority on here and Equal the minority. The only difference being certain planets simply move house and this affects the whole interpretations. I myself have a stellium in taurus 4th but in placidus it moves two whole houses to 2nd, which is not me. So it's a case of see which glove fits :wink:

JUPITERASC
08-27-2011, 08:27 PM
I know about the equal house system and I've seen many people here recommending it, should I also post the chart using this one instead of placidus? Thank you all for your interesting and useful insights, every comment is welcome.

There is a choice from fourteen of the most popular different house systems on offer at astro.com - some say there are more than forty different house systems - here's an article that gives some basic info on the subject. http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html Placidus is the default on astro.com but that does not mean placidus is the best... Placidus is most commonly used... astrologers differ. http://www.librarising.com/astrology/fwa/fwatable.html Do experiment with using different house sytems.:smile:
Don't forget Koch, Campanus, Regiomontanus, Vedic/Vehlow, Meridian, Porphyry, Alcabitius, and who knows how many others! :D
I believe house systems are greatly a matter of personal preference and intuition of oneself, but I look forward to this discussion, nevertheless...
Arian Maverick http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3280

tikana
09-17-2011, 08:24 PM
hi

Any planets in detriment are classified as debiliated planet. it is sort of like having Arnold Schwartznegger play a role of Juliet in Romeo and Juliet movie. It is a misfit. He could play the part but it wont be good at all. On emotional/expressive side of a detriment planet, so a person with detrimental placement in any chart will have problems dealing with them until Saturn return because the Saturn will aspect every planet while it circles the native's chart. If a native has not been able to understand how to handle detrimental planet's energy by the time saturn completes its circle, you conciously and subconciously will understand the dynamics.
Planet in fall is not as bad as detriment due to the fact Fall is opposite of exaltation meaning that while a planet is on its pedestal in exalt, in the fall it blames itself of its demise. Soort of like someone would get a job interview for you but you fail at it.

when a planet is in accidental and essential debility at the same time, the person has a really hard time learning to route the planets'energy.
The chart you posted has both essential and accidental debility

cheers
T


Looking at the birth chart of a friend I noticed that she has all her personal planets placed either in sings where they either are in fall or in detriment. More specifically:

Sun: Aquarius (detriment)
Moon: Capricorn (detriment)
Mercury: Pisces (detriment)
Venus: Aries (detriment)
Mars: Cancer (fall)

Could this be an element that indicates difficulties in self-expression or a difficult life path?
I'd be interested to hear anything that could be said about a case like that.

byjove
09-17-2011, 11:13 PM
hi

Any planets in detriment are classified as debiliated planet. it is sort of like having Arnold Schwartznegger play a role of Juliet in Romeo and Juliet movie. It is a misfit. He could play the part but it wont be good at all. On emotional/expressive side of a detriment planet, so a person with detrimental placement in any chart will have problems dealing with them until Saturn return because the Saturn will aspect every planet while it circles the native's chart. If a native has not been able to understand how to handle detrimental planet's energy by the time saturn completes its circle, you conciously and subconciously will understand the dynamics.
Planet in fall is not as bad as detriment due to the fact Fall is opposite of exaltation meaning that while a planet is on its pedestal in exalt, in the fall it blames itself of its demise. Soort of like someone would get a job interview for you but you fail at it.

cheers
T

Wow that's very interesting, I'll remember that. So the Saturn orbit grounds things as debilitated planets are contacted, and the first return completes that cycle.

Lin
10-21-2011, 08:58 PM
No doubt this is a difficult chart, especially for enduring relationships. But the biggest issue is the aspects between the planets and not necessarily the sign each is in.
Venus square Neptune (for one example) is equally difficult no matter what signs and houses the planets reside in. (the same goes for Jupiter opp. Venus).
LIN

tobby
10-22-2011, 03:17 PM
No doubt this is a difficult chart
Thanks for your post Lin, that's what I thought myself as well when I first saw the particular chart. Still, I would say that the person in question does relatively well in her life and is a rather social person with lots of acquaintances.
What I would like to mention though is the fact that the person in question doesn't feel comfortable in discussions about issues which in one way or another remind the finity of human life and the ultimate death of the individual. To me that consisted another proof of how accurate astrology is, since the fear of death is shown everywhere in the chart: Saturn in 8th in conjunction to the Sun, Pluto Squaring the Sun which is placed in 8th, and also Mars in 12th in opposition to the Moon and involved in the Grand Cross.

Gogo91
10-31-2011, 02:00 AM
Looking at the birth chart of a friend I noticed that she has all her personal planets placed either in sings where they either are in fall or in detriment. More specifically:

Sun: Aquarius (detriment)
Moon: Capricorn (detriment)
Mercury: Pisces (detriment)
Venus: Aries (detriment)
Mars: Cancer (fall)

Could this be an element that indicates difficulties in self-expression or a difficult life path?
I'd be interested to hear anything that could be said about a case like that.

I am not to worry with Moon: Capricorn and Mars: Cancer. They are in mutual reception. Capricorn being exalted in Mars cancel the effect.

Sun conjunct Saturn might express in self-discipline or orderly manner.

For Communication 3rd house isn't afflicted; its trine with AC so communication isn't that hard. Also despite Mercury in Pisces it also in 9th house which is good spot for culture,language,religion/cult and any foreign teaching.

The only problem with communication is Mercury square North Node. North Node is the lesson from away with the old and welcome the new.

I hope I can be some of help. Anyone wants to correct please do.

serafin5
10-31-2011, 02:57 AM
Dear Tobby:

My ques. is if this is the chart of your friend than in your opinion how is she doing? I mean a chart can tell you so much but Id like to know is your friend alright, is she employed, does she have intimate relationships, etc? Ive noticed that a person can post their chart 1000 times and unless one mentions certain issues than nobody will really say anything neg or pos meaning details of her life/chart.

You must be a good friend to care so much. I hope your friend is well.

Blessings

astrologer50
10-31-2011, 08:56 AM
I am not to worry with Moon: Capricorn and Mars: Cancer. They are in mutual reception. Capricorn being exalted in Mars cancel the effect. [no, moon is ruled by Saturn so IF saturn was in cancer there would be mutual recepiton ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_reception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_reception)

Sun conjunct Saturn might express in self-discipline or orderly manner.

For Communication 3rd house isn't afflicted; its trine with AC so communication isn't that hard. Also despite Mercury in Pisces it also in 9th house which is good spot for culture,language,religion/cult and any foreign teaching. [depending on house system, in Equal it's in 8th house. If you take it in 9th or 6th houses are then they would be accidentially dignified being in the house that mercury rules]

The only problem with communication is Mercury square North Node. North Node is the lesson from away with the old and welcome the new.

I hope I can be some of help. Anyone wants to correct please do.

Mercury: Pisces (detriment)
This is not correct, it's in FALL, so not AS bad

astrologer50
10-31-2011, 09:07 AM
Thanks for your post Lin, that's what I thought myself as well when I first saw the particular chart. Still, I would say that the person in question does relatively well in her life and is a rather social person with lots of acquaintances.
What I would like to mention though is the fact that the person in question doesn't feel comfortable in discussions about issues which in one way or another remind the finity of human life and the ultimate death of the individual. To me that consisted another proof of how accurate astrology is, since the fear of death is shown everywhere in the chart: Saturn in 8th in conjunction to the Sun, Pluto Squaring the Sun which is placed in 8th, and also Mars in 12th in opposition to the Moon and involved in the Grand Cross.

Really I can interpret that as completely differently

Saturn in the 8th house
· Strong sensuality needs restraining. Lesson to learn where sex attitudes and appetites are concerned. Attitudes to sex are serious and can be inhibited. Too much or too little is out of balance.
· Person has a long life due to Saturn's staying power.
· Partner's money can cause distress if Saturn is afflicted.
· Financial difficulties in partnerships, whether business or marital.
· There is often a deep interest in occult mysteries.
· These people are usually responsible with money, but need to take care of investments.
· Normally not inherit, but if did, would become a "yoke" around your shoulders, and probably more trouble than it is worth.

Saturn conj sun is lack of rapport with father and alter's the sun rays to become more Capricorn/saturnian. although the link below is 'square' is will give very similar results


sun square saturn
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35609&highlight=saturn+square (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35609&highlight=saturn+square)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=318847#post318847 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=318847#post318847)


Saturn. below is the Modern astrology view of saturn http://www.cafeastrology.com/saturn.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/saturn.html)
http://www.dimension1111.com/astrology-the-planets.html (http://www.dimension1111.com/astrology-the-planets.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_in_astrology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_in_astrology)

sun square pluto again is a problem with father/men, will add assertive, dogmatic arrogance on occasions. Saturn square pluto will add ambition, craving power/authority and ruthlessness

mars opp moon =bossy mother and emotionally assertive. Mars in cancer tends to interfere with family matters, but stuck in 12th tends to dissolve planetary energies and I think it good for mars to have these squares. But this can show not being able to 'act' or take action in a way they wanted in childhood. Possibly being sent to their room for having temper tantrums, thereby learning not to take 'direct action'

venus although in detriment in aries, is boosted by an opposition to jupiter. Venus square uranus/neptujne is too wide for me at 9' thereby cancelling the GRAND Cross. max I use is 8' in squares, opp and conjunctions.

Gogo91
11-01-2011, 04:36 PM
I know that astro50 but I meant that Capricorn exalted in Mars and Cancer domicile in Moon.

Since you stated with Equal House; Pisces in 8th might give the person esp or maybe super sensitivity. Or Mercury in 8th might cause them to repress their thoughts for fearing of being misunderstood.

Well thank you for correcting me. :joyful:

tobby
11-01-2011, 07:01 PM
This is not correct, it's in FALL, so not AS bad
I mentioned Detriment instead of Fall because here (http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtp64_e.htm) it says that Mercury is in Detriment in Pisces.

Saturn conj sun is lack of rapport with father and alter's the sun rays to become more Capricorn/saturnian. although the link below is 'square' is will give very similar results

sun square pluto again is a problem with father/men, will add assertive, dogmatic arrogance on occasions. Saturn square pluto will add ambition, craving power/authority and ruthlessnessHere is an interesting point, I know that these aspects indicate problems with the father but in the particular case things are better than what I expected to see. I wouldn't say that the person in question has the best relationship with her father but not the worst either. When I noticed aspects like Pluto Sq Sun/Saturn and Sun Conjunct Saturn I expected to see major issues but it seems to be a rather average relationship.
I would also add that a Conjunction of Sun with Saturn is nowhere near as harsh as a Square, I myself have Sun Square Saturn and it's the worst thing ever, serious problems with father and a lot of oppression. As for the Square with Pluto, it seems to be rather subtle in it's influence and manifestation, and in any case much easier that a Square with Saturn.

mars opp moon =bossy mother and emotionally assertive. Mars in cancer tends to interfere with family matters, but stuck in 12th tends to dissolve planetary energies and I think it good for mars to have these squares. But this can show not being able to 'act' or take action in a way they wanted in childhood. Possibly being sent to their room for having temper tantrums, thereby learning not to take 'direct action'Yeah that is quite true, there is frequently temper between her and her mother but a sort of "Martian" temper instead of a Saturnian, just quarrels every now and then and raised voices but certainly not the coldness and the bad blood that Saturn indicates.

venus although in detriment in aries, is boosted by an opposition to jupiter. Venus square uranus/neptujne is too wide for me at 9' thereby cancelling the GRAND Cross. max I use is 8' in squares, opp and conjunctions.That was very helpful and intelligent, I like the fact that you don't just interpret the opposition as a necessarily negative aspect but go further than that and see things from a practical and realistic point of view. :smile:

astrologer50
11-01-2011, 08:06 PM
Tobby,

regarding mercury in pisces, you may well be correct my information was taken from wikki


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(astrology))Mercury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(astrology)): in fall in (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(astrology))Pisces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisces_(astrology)) (exalted in (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(astrology))Virgo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgo_(astrology)))
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(astrology))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_(astrology)

then again in another section it says,

mercury Gemini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(astrology)),Virgo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgo_(astrology)) domicile and Sagittarius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_(astrology)), Pisces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisces_(astrology))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detriment_(astrology)

so maybe we are both right :smile: