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Roy
06-01-2011, 10:09 PM
It's my understanding that traditional astrology centers on physical matters and modern with non ie. the mind. Having said that, I would like an understanding in traditionalist ways.

How do we delineate wealth in a horoscope?
Is it possible to find where the wealth will be made?
How about the timing or loss?

Where could I find this information?

byjove
06-01-2011, 11:22 PM
I know that there are search engines filled with info. but discerning the useful and trustworth from the rest is a rough task. I wonder if there is any astrologer on here interested in doing a mini-tutorial? I love tutorials on here with people who respond (info. pages don't do that) and I do learn a lot this way.

Good thread.

By Jove

astrologer50
06-03-2011, 11:34 AM
It's my understanding that traditional astrology centers on physical matters and modern with non ie. the mind. Having said that, I would like an understanding in traditionalist ways.

How do we delineate wealth in a horoscope?
Is it possible to find where the wealth will be made?
How about the timing or loss?

Where could I find this information?
we are all visual people and need to see charts please.
Re: Need some education: Which charts to use when?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514)

Beginning to Study Astrology
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154469&postcount=10 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154469&postcount=10)
http://www.soulhealing.com/tutorialwest.htm (http://www.soulhealing.com/tutorialwest.htm)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-glyphs.php (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-glyphs.php)

How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126)

what members like to see in a thread – help forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25930 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25930)

Money & you
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/money_and_you.php (http://www.astrotheme.com/files/money_and_you.php)
http://www.cafeastrology.com/astrologytopics/astrology_of_money_wealth.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/astrologytopics/astrology_of_money_wealth.html)
career significators
http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/significators.html (http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/significators.html)
http://www.janetboyer.com/Midheaven_in_Sagittarius.html (http://www.janetboyer.com/Midheaven_in_Sagittarius.html)

Professional & Destiny
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/astrology_professional_destiny.php (http://www.astrotheme.com/files/astrology_professional_destiny.php)
sticky in vocational astrology forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32775 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32775)
Astro’s vocation section
http://www.babybirthchart.com/zodiac-signs/midheaven/ (http://www.babybirthchart.com/zodiac-signs/midheaven/)
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_vocation2_n.htm?lang=z (http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_vocation2_n.htm?lang=z)

My thoughts and links on vocation
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=264759&postcount=7 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=264759&postcount=7)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12398&postcount=1 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12398&postcount=1)

Waybread’s thoughts on Vocation
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=264335&postcount=2 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=264335&postcount=2)

anny
06-05-2011, 10:40 PM
Beneficial planets are Venus, Neptune and Jupiter. Their position in the chart is indicator of wealth. And this may not mean that you are wealthy with money, but you may be rich with compassion or having a lot of friends....

Venus shows what and how you attract...
Jupiter shows what you have a lot, even too much....
Neptune shows your attraction on the all levels... also spirituality attraction...
Even inharmonious aspects with them are better than nothing.

Saturn and Mars are next important ones, although don`t specially show that you will get rich. But Saturn makes things real in the chart, and Mars gives drive and energy, but also courage to fight for one`s dreams.

2nd house is the main indicator of wealth. Whether the person has lesson to learn with values or not. What the person has. Her or his resources.
8th house shows the money got from others, inheritance, lottery winnings, money from the marriage...
12th house shows the hidden richness...unconscious magnetism to things...

also may be important 10th, 6th and 4th house IF they have some connection with the richenss planets or rulers of the richness planets..
10th - even if you dont have richness in your chart, lucky career may compensate it..
6th - the same with your skills..
4th - inherited wealth from the family..

Also Taurus, Capricorn, Pisces, Cancer and Virgo have connection with material world-- and with wealth.

What you want the most have to have connection with your AC, Sun and Moon. If they are not into the materiality and earning money - then getting rich is not your theme. :whistling: At least so radical approach has Beverly A.Flynn.
She has wrote a great book about money and richness. :wink:

BobZemco
06-06-2011, 01:21 AM
It's my understanding that traditional astrology centers on physical matters and modern with non ie. the mind. Having said that, I would like an understanding in traditionalist ways.

How do we delineate wealth in a horoscope?
Is it possible to find where the wealth will be made?
How about the timing or loss?

Where could I find this information?

There are three main lines of thinking.

Ptolemy uses the Lot of Fortune, the Almuten of the Lot Fortune and any Planets that aspect the Almuten of the Lot of Fortune. The Almuten of anything is simply that Planet that has the greatest amount of Dignity at a particular point on the chart.

33°24' is the same as 3° Taurus 24'. Venus is the Sign Ruler and Term Ruler, while Moon is the Exaltation Ruler. In a Day Chart, Venus would be the Sect Triplicity Ruler, so Venus has the greatest Dignity in that point. However, in a Night Chart, Moon is the Sect Ruler of Earth Signs and so Venus and Moon would each have two dignities.

In that case, which one, Moon or Venus aspects that point? The one that does is the Almuten. If neither aspect it, or they are equally close in aspect, then take the one that is in the correct facing, and if neither are, then take the one that is closer in degrees.

Sometimes you have multiple points, like the Almuten of Marriage. That is the Planet that rules the Lot of Marriage, Venus, and the Sun for women or Moon for men. The Planet that has the greatest Dignity in those three points is the Planet that actually rules marriage in that chart, and so when you did your Profections and Solar Returns, you would be looking at the Almuten of Marriage to give you hints that marriage is possible, then you would look at Primary Directions (using the Almuten) to determine the exact date (since transits are guaranteed to fail).

Ptolemy says the quadrant the Almuten is located will tell you roughly when in life someone will gain/lose wealth, and directed the any Planet that afflicts the Almuten of Wealth will tell you when they'll lose it.

Others of the Hellenistic group, the Romans, Persians and some of the Medieval ones use the Almuten of the 2nd House cusp, Ruler 2nd House, Jupiter (the general significator of wealth), and the Lot of Wealth (aka Lot of Substance or Lot of Possessions) which is ASC + 2nd House Cusp - 2nd House Ruler.

From that point they follow Ptolemy. Really important are Planets that afflict the Almuten of Wealth and from where. For example, a square, is it ten Houses away (a Dexter square) or four Houses away (a Sinister square). Dexter aspects (Dexter sextiles, trines and squares are more powerful than Sinister sextiles, trines and squares), and also is the Planet that squares (or opposes) the Almuten Angular or elevated above the Almuten.

The Almuten will give you hints at how you acquire whatever wealth you might get, through your own labor, through inheritance, through luck, through your own wit and cunning and skill, through arts and crafts and other Venusian things and so on, through leadership and command ability (like running your own business or running someone else's business) or other Martian things and so on.

That method is much better than Ptolemy's (who had a peculiar bias against Greek Lots) and when you start looking at a lot of charts, you'll see that the Lot of Fortune has little to do with wealth, rather it is about the Native's general fortune in life and the good and bad that happens to them.

Another method that is not as complex but worth the effort is that of the later Medievals, like Bonatti and Lily.

Here, you're looking at the the area 5° before the 2nd House Cusp up to 5° before the 3rd House Cusp. You consider any Planets in the region, plus the 2nd House Ruler and the Planet that rules any intercepted Sign in the region. So if the 2nd House Cusp is 15° Taurus and the 3rd House Cusp is 22° Gemini, you'd be looking at the region between 10° Taurus in the 1st House up to 17° Gemini and you'd look at both Venus and Mercury who rule Taurus and Gemini, plus any Planets in that region.

They also want you to look at Jupiter and the Lot of Fortune and any Planets that aspect Jupiter or the Lot of Fortune.

They pay more attention to the condition of the Planets, so, for example Jupiter as the general significator of wealth should be Angular, Direct, in Dignity, preferably in Sagittarius, Pisces, or Cancer and if not then in his own Triplicity or Term, Oriental, Diurnal and not in square or opposition to Mercury, Sun, Mars or Saturn and not Combust (and that's true for any Planet).

What you don't want to see is Jupiter in Capricorn, Gemini or Virgo, or Retrograde or Peregrine, Combust, Cadent, Occidental, Nocturnal in a Day Chart or other things like that, and especially not in square or opposition to a Malefic or Accidental Malefic (like Sun or Mercury).

byjove
06-06-2011, 02:09 AM
Thank you everyone for very helpful guides. I'll definitely be testing and using these.

I just spotted Bob referred to dexter and sinister aspects. It's been a while since I read about these. These, I believe are far more important, the older the astrology. But their lack of reference today is considered a loss, not a lack of usefulness.

When a planet casts an aspect against the order of the signs, e.g. the Sun in Aries in trine with Pluto in Sagg. the Sun is casting, and it is backward to (Aries to) Sagg. this is called a dexter (trine) and is definitely considered stronger than the other type:

Sun in Aries trine Pluto in Leo (casting with the order of the signs) - sinister - less powerful, or complicated (and as with most of history's association with the left - not to be desired).

So, to analyse wealth, considering aspects to almutens etc. what if the almuten of wealth is Jupiter, squaring Neptune by 1) dexter square 2) sinister square . Dexter is stronger so - more of a danger to money, or dexter is more desired - so less of a threat? And with sinister?

Also an almuten peregrine - do face/term/etc. count as 'natural' dignity? or is that the bargain basement?

ethertwist
06-06-2011, 02:12 AM
They also want you to look at Jupiter and the Lot of Fortune and any Planets that aspect Jupiter or the Lot of Fortune.

They pay more attention to the condition of the Planets, so, for example Jupiter as the general significator of wealth should be Angular, Direct, in Dignity, preferably in Sagittarius, Pisces, or Cancer and if not then in his own Triplicity or Term, Oriental, Diurnal and not in square or opposition to Mercury, Sun, Mars or Saturn and not Combust (and that's true for any Planet).

What you don't want to see is Jupiter in Capricorn, Gemini or Virgo, or Retrograde or Peregrine, Combust, Cadent, Occidental, Nocturnal in a Day Chart or other things like that, and especially not in square or opposition to a Malefic or Accidental Malefic (like Sun or Mercury).

I have a few novice questions if you'd be so kind as to oblige? :smile:

When a planet is said to be Occidental, does that mean it's below the horizon (Houses 1-6) or does it just refer to it moving away from the Sun or in the opposite half of the chart where the Sun is located? Is my understanding of this completely incorrect? :unsure:

Does a close opposition from Uranus to the Part/Lot of Fortune count or since Uranus is not considered a factor in Traditional astrology is that aspect deemed negligible?

What about Jupiter at a pitted degree? Is that a strong indicator against potential wealth or is it just one factor that could be mitigated by something more promising?

I apologize if my questions or trite or obvious. I'm trying to get a handle on Traditional astrology and I'm finding it a bit dense.

BobZemco
06-06-2011, 04:28 AM
So, to analyse wealth, considering aspects to almutens etc. what if the almuten of wealth is Jupiter, squaring Neptune by 1) dexter square 2) sinister square . Dexter is stronger so - more of a danger to money, or dexter is more desired - so less of a threat? And with sinister?

Sextiles are the weakest, and a Sinister sextile from a Cadent House is almost a non-event (in fact from the 12th House it wouldn't even be an aspect).

I don't use Neptune, but to the extent that I would, I consider the Outers to be the Upper Octaves of Mercury, Venus and Mars. I would first look at the condition of Venus. A strong Venus, Direct, Fast in Motion, in an Angular/Succedent House, in her own Dignity would make Neptune strong. I'd want to see if Jupiter received Neptune by Sign, Exaltation, Triplicity, Term or Decan, because any Reception is good, even if it's only simple Reception, and the more Reception the better.

Since Jupiter is the faster Planet, he's the one squaring Neptune and that square will be powerful if Jupiter is Angular or Succedent, and if Jupiter is Dexter, he has the upper hand and would decimate Neptune.

Also an almuten peregrine - do face/term/etc. count as 'natural' dignity? or is that the bargain basement?

An Almuten can be Peregrine, or Retrograde or Combust (or all three and worse) and you would look at that when judging chart.

You look at it sort of on a "Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest..." and if the Peregrine Almuten is in the 10th or 5th or 9th or 11th or 1st or 7th that's better than being in the 6th, 8th or 12th.

Also, you have to view everything in the context of region, ethnicity, parentage and socio-economic status. A middling Almuten that isn't very strong but isn't absolutely horrid would indicate "average" and if you were Middle Class, you'd be smack dab in the Middle Middle Class, or if you were Lower Class in the middle of the Lower Class and so on.

If there are indicators of a change in class, you'd go from Lower Class to the middle of the Middle Class, or maybe you go from Upper Class to middle of the Middle Class if the indicators show a loss.

And part of that too, is that you might end up better off, the same or worse off than your parents.


When a planet is said to be Occidental, does that mean it's below the horizon (Houses 1-6) or does it just refer to it moving away from the Sun or in the opposite half of the chart where the Sun is located? Is my understanding of this completely incorrect?

It's confusing. I'd prefer another term myself, but suffice to say that a Planet is Occidental when in the 1st, 2nd, 3r, 7th, 8th or 9th Houses, but it is also Occidental when it rises after the Sun.

You always want Venus and Mars rising after the Sun, ie Occidental, because they are Nocturnal or Feminine Planets. You always want Jupiter and Saturn to be Oriental, rising before the Sun because they are Masculine and Diurnal.

Mercury is a different animal. If the Sun is in Gemini, then you want Mercury Oriental rising before the Sun and in Gemini (a few degrees ahead of the Sun and not Combust), but if Mercury is Occidental, you'd want him behind the Sun in Cancer.

Does a close opposition from Uranus to the Part/Lot of Fortune count or since Uranus is not considered a factor in Traditional astrology is that aspect deemed negligible?

I ignore Uranus and never really found it useful in a Natal Chart.

What about Jupiter at a pitted degree?

Those are also called Welled or Deep Degrees, and they're exactly what they sound like, you dug your grave, or you made your bed and have to lie in it, or you dug yourself into a hole and can't get out, or you've trapped yourself in a corner like a cockroach.

In a Natal Chart, Planets in Pitted Degrees struggle a lot. Sometimes struggle is good, it's Nature's way of strengthening.

At other times, struggle gets to be a freaking headache.

If a Planet in a Pitted Degree is strong, it will survive the struggle, if not, then it's going to become tedious, if not downright frustrating.

Is that a strong indicator against potential wealth or is it just one factor that could be mitigated by something more promising?

Jupiter is just one of the significators of wealth. If Jupiter is the Almuten, then to help it, you'd want to see Venus in any aspect with Jupiter, or Mercury or the Sun in sextile or trine with Jupiter. Even Mars in Pisces, Aries, Sagittarius or Leo in sextile or trine with Jupiter would help (especially in a Night Chart because Jupiter rules the Fire Signs at Night).

The Moon conjunct, sextile or trine Jupiter, that would depend a lot on Sign, House and House Type. The Moon represents constant change and fluctuation, just like the song says:

O Fortuna! Velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis;
Vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,

egestatem, potestatem dissolvit ut glaciem.

Fortune, like the Moon
always changing state,
forever increasing and decreasing.


Hateful life:
Now oppressing then soothing
as it fancies,

Poverty and Power, [the Moon] melts them like ice.

ethertwist
06-06-2011, 08:35 AM
Sextiles are the weakest, and a Sinister sextile from a Cadent House is almost a non-event (in fact from the 12th House it wouldn't even be an aspect).

I don't use Neptune, but to the extent that I would, I consider the Outers to be the Upper Octaves of Mercury, Venus and Mars. I would first look at the condition of Venus. A strong Venus, Direct, Fast in Motion, in an Angular/Succedent House, in her own Dignity would make Neptune strong. I'd want to see if Jupiter received Neptune by Sign, Exaltation, Triplicity, Term or Decan, because any Reception is good, even if it's only simple Reception, and the more Reception the better.

Since Jupiter is the faster Planet, he's the one squaring Neptune and that square will be powerful if Jupiter is Angular or Succedent, and if Jupiter is Dexter, he has the upper hand and would decimate Neptune.

An Almuten can be Peregrine, or Retrograde or Combust (or all three and worse) and you would look at that when judging chart.

You look at it sort of on a "Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest..." and if the Peregrine Almuten is in the 10th or 5th or 9th or 11th or 1st or 7th that's better than being in the 6th, 8th or 12th.

Also, you have to view everything in the context of region, ethnicity, parentage and socio-economic status. A middling Almuten that isn't very strong but isn't absolutely horrid would indicate "average" and if you were Middle Class, you'd be smack dab in the Middle Middle Class, or if you were Lower Class in the middle of the Lower Class and so on.

If there are indicators of a change in class, you'd go from Lower Class to the middle of the Middle Class, or maybe you go from Upper Class to middle of the Middle Class if the indicators show a loss.

And part of that too, is that you might end up better off, the same or worse off than your parents.
It's confusing. I'd prefer another term myself, but suffice to say that a Planet is Occidental when in the 1st, 2nd, 3r, 7th, 8th or 9th Houses, but it is also Occidental when it rises after the Sun.

You always want Venus and Mars rising after the Sun, ie Occidental, because they are Nocturnal or Feminine Planets. You always want Jupiter and Saturn to be Oriental, rising before the Sun because they are Masculine and Diurnal.

Mercury is a different animal. If the Sun is in Gemini, then you want Mercury Oriental rising before the Sun and in Gemini (a few degrees ahead of the Sun and not Combust), but if Mercury is Occidental, you'd want him behind the Sun in Cancer.

Those are also called Welled or Deep Degrees, and they're exactly what they sound like, you dug your grave, or you made your bed and have to lie in it, or you dug yourself into a hole and can't get out, or you've trapped yourself in a corner like a cockroach.

In a Natal Chart, Planets in Pitted Degrees struggle a lot. Sometimes struggle is good, it's Nature's way of strengthening.

At other times, struggle gets to be a freaking headache.

If a Planet in a Pitted Degree is strong, it will survive the struggle, if not, then it's going to become tedious, if not downright frustrating.

Jupiter is just one of the significators of wealth. If Jupiter is the Almuten, then to help it, you'd want to see Venus in any aspect with Jupiter, or Mercury or the Sun in sextile or trine with Jupiter. Even Mars in Pisces, Aries, Sagittarius or Leo in sextile or trine with Jupiter would help (especially in a Night Chart because Jupiter rules the Fire Signs at Night).

The Moon conjunct, sextile or trine Jupiter, that would depend a lot on Sign, House and House Type. The Moon represents constant change and fluctuation, just like the song says:

O Fortuna! Velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis;
Vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,

egestatem, potestatem dissolvit ut glaciem.

Fortune, like the Moon
always changing state,
forever increasing and decreasing.


Hateful life:
Now oppressing then soothing
as it fancies,

Poverty and Power, [the Moon] melts them like ice.


Bob,

Thank you so much for the wealth of information you provide! You really make it look easy and I truly appreciate you taking the time to walk us all through it and fleshing it out so that it's not quite so overwhelming.

I'm currently trying to figure out my Almuten planet following Lilly's criteria. I think I have it narrowed down to either the Moon or Jupiter or possibly Mercury in my own (Dinural) chart.

My natal Moon is in the 10th house (Angular and Oriental) in Taurus (exalted) and in mutual reception to Venus in Cancer in the 12th (which is 11* from the Sun, so technically under the Sun's beams). The Moon is waning, which is considered an accidental debility. My Sun is in Cancer, so the Moon disposits Sun (or is it considered vice versa?). Mixed messages it would seem?

My natal Mercury and Jupiter are conjunct in Leo at 14* (really 15 degrees, thus DEEP pitted) and Jupiter is in its own triplicity and term. They're in my 1st house (accidentally dignified?), so they're Occidental and behind my Sun in the 12th in Cancer, so I believe that means Mercury is in its Face (I'm still confused what that means exactly?), but it's also peregrine at that degree in Leo.

If my Almuten is one of those three I mentioned above, none seem to be really promising of wealth. My POF is 17 Taurus, also in the 10th and square to Jupiter. There is asemi-sextile aspect between Venus and Jupiter in my chart, but the Moon and POF square Jupiter/Mercury. Venus is weak.

Beyond that, I'm stumped...but am working on piecing it together.

That poem you posted is very apropos!
:smile:

BobZemco
06-18-2011, 12:36 AM
Ptolemy looks solely at the Lot of Fortune. He wants to know what Planet(s) have "dominion" there. In other words, which Planets have the greatest amount of Dignity in that degree point, because those Planets are going to play a role in wealth throughout the Native's life.

The Planet that has the most Dignity there is the Almuten. Ptolemy uses the Sign, Exaltation, Triplicity Ruler, Term Ruler and any Planet that is in aspect with the Lot of Fortune.

Your Lot is at 6° Aquarius:

Sign: Saturn
Exaltation: None
Triplicity: Mercury (the Night Ruler of Air)
Term: Mercury
Aspect: Saturn (joined by body -- ie conjunct)

Here, as it sometimes happens, there are two Planets with equal Dignity in the Lot. Because Saturn is the Lot Ruler and is corporally conjunct and is closer to the Lot than Mercury, Saturn would be the Almuten of Wealth according to Ptolemy.

Ptolemy would then look at the total number of Planets that have Dignity in the Lot of Fortune to determine the permanency of the Native's Wealth. More Planets means more stability.

He also looks at the condition of the Planets to determine stability. Here Saturn is Cadent, but in the 3rd House, which is rather harmless, in his own Sign, he's Diurnal, but Occidental, and in a trine with Moon and receives Moon by Exaltation. Saturn and Moon are Friends, so there's some affinity there.

Mercury is in Detriment in Sagittarius, in square with Jupiter but there's Mutual Reception, and in sextile with Moon and Mercury receives Moon since Mercury is the Night Air Triplicity Ruler. Mercury is also in a Degree of Increasing Fortune. Your Sun is in a Pitted Degree, but I would kind of ignore that since your Moon is the Sect Ruler.

Mercury is applying to Mars, and Mars is Diurnal and very Malefic, especially since Mercury and Mars are Enemies and neither receives the other.

What Ptolemy would do now is direct Saturn and Mercury by direct and converse direction and where they made sextiles, squares or trines to the Lot of Fortune that would indicate things that would happen regarding your wealth. Just looking at the Houses and current placements, I'd guess that when Saturn sextiles the Lot of Fortune, you'll probably gain, perhaps from the sale of property or your home at some point in the future.

That's how Ptolemy did it. He had a peculiar disdain for the Lots except for the Lot of Fortune.

The way everyone else did is to look at the Planet(s) with the greatest dignities in the 2nd House Cusp, Jupiter and the Lot of Wealth (which often appears in texts as Substance or Possessions -- not to be confused with another Lot related to Possessions).

In your case, because Jupiter rules the 2nd House Cusp, you're only looking at two points: Jupiter and the Lot of Wealth

This raises an interesting question, and that is do you count Jupiter twice? I don't know.

2. Calculate the Almuten of Wealth

.......................A...............B.......... ....C.............D
Sign..............Mercury......Mercury.....Mercury ......Saturn
Exaltation.......Mercury......Mercury.....Mercury. ....Venus
Triplicity...........Moon.........Moon........Moon ........Mercury
Term..............Jupiter........Jupiter......Jupi ter.......Mercury
Facing|AspectHere, Mercury has the most Dignity in points C & D.

I don't know what facing|aspect means. Could someone clarify this for me?It's a Greek word and somehow the Persians confused it with the Chaldean Decans which some people call "Face" because I think the Greek word was facis.

Facing is a Planet's correct position in relation to the Sun/Moon.

When Jupiter is Occidental of the Sun, his proper relationship should always be that of a trine. Jupiter doesn't actually have to be in trine with the Sun, he just has to be in a Sign that is trine with the Sun's Sign

When Jupiter is Oriental, should he be in trine with the Moon by Sign.

You can probably see this better by taking a Natural wheel and just writing in the Planets in their Signs. When you're done doing that, you can see the proper facing for all the Planets.

When Venus is in her proper facing when she is Occidental of the Sun and sextile or Oriental of the Moon and sextile. Venus is a Nocturnal Planet and should rise ahead of the Moon, but she should rise after the Sun.

That's what Facing is and its a form of Dignity.

In your chart, Mercury is not in his proper facing. If he would be then he would either be in Virgo or Aquarius. For Venus to be in her proper facing, she would need to be in Leo or Pisces and so on for the rest of them.

Mercury has 8 dignities so this would be the Almuten of Wealth.

Did I do this correctly?That's close enough for government work, but yes, Mercury would be the Almuten.

And like Ptolemy, we would direct Mercury to see what happens.

Anyway Mercury is the Almuten of Wealth and your Lot of Wealth is in Aquarius conjunct Saturn and trine Moon, so you do have the ability to earn money. Mercury is in a sextile by Sign to the Lot so you will have some control over your financial affairs. You need to be careful because Mercury squares your Lot of Debt at 18° Virgo. If you loan large sums of money to people, don't expect to get it back, and if you borrow money, make sure it doesn't get out of hand, because your prone to take a beating on interest, especially since your Lot of Wealth is in an Azieme Degree.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19955&stc=1&d=1308357801

BobZemco
06-18-2011, 03:04 AM
If my Almuten is one of those three I mentioned above, none seem to be really promising of wealth. My POF is 17 Taurus, also in the 10th and square to Jupiter. There is asemi-sextile aspect between Venus and Jupiter in my chart, but the Moon and POF square Jupiter/Mercury. Venus is weak.

Venus is the Almuten and it sextiles the Lot of Wealth. The Lot is conjunct Saturn, but Saturn is Peregrine in your chart. Moon trines the Lot and Moon is the Night Ruler of Earth Signs, so that's good. There's no real impediments to the Lot. The only the real issue is the Lot Ruler Mercury is in Fall in Leo, Stationary and in a Pitted Degree, plus conjunct Jupiter in the same Pitted Degree, plus square Moon without Reception and sextile Mars without Reception (and Mars is Out-of-Sect). I think we can rule out Billionaire Playboy as one of your occupations.

[img]http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19956&stc=1&d=1308365476[/quote]

ethertwist
06-18-2011, 07:02 AM
Venus is the Almuten and it sextiles the Lot of Wealth. The Lot is conjunct Saturn, but Saturn is Peregrine in your chart. Moon trines the Lot and Moon is the Night Ruler of Earth Signs, so that's good. There's no real impediments to the Lot. The only the real issue is the Lot Ruler Mercury is in Fall in Leo, Stationary and in a Pitted Degree, plus conjunct Jupiter in the same Pitted Degree, plus square Moon without Reception and sextile Mars without Reception (and Mars is Out-of-Sect). I think we can rule out Billionaire Playboy as one of your occupations.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19956&stc=1&d=1308365476

Bob,

Simply put, you're the best!

Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for me and for including my chart. You were nearly spot on with my birth details as well (location, birth time, date, etc.).

Since Billionaire Playboy is out of the question now, I guess I'll have to keep my day job!:lol:

Mauli.dubey
06-18-2011, 08:46 AM
The 2nd house indicates wealth.
2nd house deals with money matters,
one's deposits, income tax,
customs, computers. It represents
one's family and face, speech, food habits and left eye.
For any ascendant, some planets
become Yogakaraka or Maraka, depending upon the
house they own. This is one of the most important factor in
prediction. A Yogakaraka planet shows good results in
its Dasha or Antar Dasha

cindystubbs
06-21-2011, 10:09 PM
Hi my Lot of Debt I guess is 23 degrees Libra
My lot of Wealth I believe is 23 degrees Sagittarius in the first house.
I was wondering is we do this the same way as the lot of fortune, extending forward or backward from the Ascendant.
At any rate is Almuten we are using is it the planet with most dignitieson the lot of fortune, or is it the 2nd house cusp?
My Lot of Debt in the 11th house of wages is where my money goes HA!
My lot of wealth is more confusing, Saturn rules my second from the first house.
My understanding is that this means that gain is from personal effort.
Fortuna in the 7th house may mean I must get help from others perhaps. it is ruled by mercury in the 2nd. My interpretation is this:
Since 2nd is assets, then gain can be had by some talent I already possess, and Saturn in the first is myself also, also showing some talent.
Aspects to the lot of fortune each is a talent i read also.
Confused.....
At any rate, Fortuna is on Aldebaran, which Robson says means poverty.

and he wasn't kidding

positive
07-01-2011, 02:34 PM
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealth.html

A link with various articles how to define wealth in a natal chart.

SniperBomber328
07-10-2011, 06:57 PM
Sorry I am a little confused here, do we count the Sect Triplicity ruler of our chart, or of the sign that Fortuna falls in?

And what if the Lot of Wealth falls in Sagittarius in the 2nd House, do we count Jupiter soley as the Almuten for that lot?

My Fortune falls in Pisces at 24 Degrees, and I want to know if my calculations for the Almuten is correct; Pisces at 24 degrees

Ruler: Jupiter
Exaltation: Venus
Triplicity Ruler: Mars
Term Ruler: Mars

So is my Almuten Mars? Mars falls in the 1st House, is Occidental (Rises after the Sun), Domicile (In Scorpio), Free from Combustion, in its own Triplicity, direct in motion and conjunct my Mercury.

My Mars and Jupiter recieve no aspect towards eachother (or by face, term, etc.), and Jupiter is Cadent but conjuct my Fixed Star Spica, rises before the Sun (Oriental), and Conjunct my Asc, and falls in its own Face. Which I think Jupiter is the Almuten of my Lot of Wealth.

Please let me know if my calculations are correct or wrong.

MsK
07-10-2011, 10:08 PM
My Part/Lot of Fortune is at .5 Leo

I can not tell if my Almuten is the Sun or Jupiter.

Can anyone help??

At any rate, both are great by sign (exalted Sun, ruling sign for Jupiter) but in pitted degrees, nor do they thrill me by aspect. :unsure:

I have never experienced poverty, nor extreme wealth, but have lived comfortably - mostly through others

astrologer50
07-10-2011, 11:20 PM
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealth.html

A link with various articles how to define wealth in a natal chart.

this site is well known and used by Traditinal astrologers, I even like their aspect interpretations BUT for complete beginners this comes over as overly technical, complex and hard to understand. 90% here are Modern astrologers including myself.

If anyone wants to learn the differences between Modern and Traditional try here...basically Trads don't go past Saturn, so thereb ignoring Uranus,Neptune and Pluto and use hundreds of year old data which back then hundreds of years ago had meaning.

House systems Traditional v Modern
http://www.astrologyinstitute.com/introduction_book.htm (http://www.astrologyinstitute.com/introduction_book.htm)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8463 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8463)
Traditional astrologers using ancient outdated information (unproven) that hardly seems relevant in a modern world
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7406&highlight=traditional (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7406&highlight=traditional)
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/traditionallinks.html (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/traditionallinks.html)
http://episthemologie.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/5-differences-between-modern-and-traditional-astrology/ (http://episthemologie.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/5-differences-between-modern-and-traditional-astrology/)
http://www.classicalastrologer.com/correspondence_course.htm (http://www.classicalastrologer.com/correspondence_course.htm)
http://www.astrocollege.org/academic/department.cgi?DEPT=CERTIFIC&MOD=TRADITIONALASTRO&ACTION=SHOWMOD (http://www.astrocollege.org/academic/department.cgi?DEPT=CERTIFIC&MOD=TRADITIONALASTRO&ACTION=SHOWMOD)
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/traditionalastrology.html (http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/traditionalastrology.html)

astrologer50
07-10-2011, 11:27 PM
My Part/Lot of Fortune is at .5 Leo

I can not tell if my Almuten is the Sun or Jupiter.

Can anyone help??

At any rate, both are great by sign (exalted Sun, ruling sign for Jupiter) but in pitted degrees, nor do they thrill me by aspect. :unsure:

I have never experienced poverty, nor extreme wealth, but have lived comfortably - mostly through others
POF
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/ParsFortunae.htm (http://www.astrotherapy.eu/ParsFortunae.htm)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5210.html (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5210.html)


“However, in the case of both significations one must keep in mind that no one indication in the chart, not even the Part of Fortune, can be taken by itself as a total indicator of any area of life. For health one must also look at the Ascendant, its ruler, the Moon and its ruler. Also the sixth and eighth houses as indicators of illness and death respectively have strong indications for health. For material prosperity one should also look at the second house, the tenth house, and their rulers.”
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_fortune_e.htm (http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_fortune_e.htm)

“The fortune indicated by this part is not necessarily materialistic or even tangible, though it can be. It depends on the sign and house location of the Part of Fortune. The benefit can be on the physical, intellectual, emotional, and/or spiritual plane of experience. In all cases it is through the cultivation and expression of this point that one will experience harmony and a sense of well-being.”
http://www.astroresources.com/fortune.htm (http://www.astroresources.com/fortune.htm)

“The Part of Fortune represents worldly success, and is associated with the physical body and health as well. It can be indicative of the career or vocation. Worldly success and prosperity are associated with the Part of Fortune, and both its sign and house placement suggests innate abilities and talents--areas of life and qualities that are expressed naturally.”
http://www.cafeastrology.com/partoffortune.html (http://www.cafeastrology.com/partoffortune.html)
just found a site for calculating this and many more Parts or Lots --
http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php (http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php)

astrologer50
07-10-2011, 11:28 PM
"Some formulas listed here have both an AM and PM version. The PM version is a reverse of the AM version and when indicated, persons born in the daytime (Sun in 7th - 12th houses) should use the AM formula while persons born in the evening (Sun in 1st - 6th houses) should use the PM formula. Sometimes it's best to try both formulas."
Check the placement of the Sun in the chart, it must be sensibly placed relative to the horizon for the given time of day. For a day birth, the Sun must be above the horizon.

From astro.com explanations on POF
We use different formulae for Pars Fortunae for a day birth than for a night birth. You can change this rule with an option in the extended chart selection.
The day formula is: ASC + Moon - Sun
The night formula: ASC + Sun - Moon
Astrologers differ in their views about which formula to use for Pars Fortunae.
If you're interested in in-depth information, please read the article "The Lot or Part of Fortune (http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_fortune_e.htm)" by Robert Hand in our "Understanding Astrology" section.

MsK
07-11-2011, 12:14 AM
Thank you Sugar!!!

astrologer50
07-11-2011, 09:42 AM
Beneficial planets are Venus, Neptune and Jupiter. Their position in the chart is indicator of wealth. And this may not mean that you are wealthy with money, but you may be rich with compassion or having a lot of friends....
[why would Neptune the great deciever, dissolver by including in your theory?]
Venus shows what and how you attract...
Jupiter shows what you have a lot, even too much....
Neptune shows your attraction on the all levels... also spirituality attraction...[iattraction would be venus, it also shows illusions, confusions and delusions]
Even inharmonious aspects with them are better than nothing.

Saturn and Mars are next important ones, although don`t specially show that you will get rich. But Saturn makes things real in the chart, and Mars gives drive and energy, but also courage to fight for one`s dreams.

2nd house is the main indicator of wealth. Whether the person has lesson to learn with values or not. What the person has. Her or his resources.
8th house shows the money got from others, inheritance, lottery winnings, money from the marriage...
12th house shows the hidden richness...unconscious magnetism to things...

also may be important 10th, 6th and 4th house IF they have some connection with the richenss planets or rulers of the richness planets..
10th - even if you dont have richness in your chart, lucky career may compensate it..
6th - the same with your skills..
4th - inherited wealth from the family..

Also Taurus, Capricorn, Pisces, Cancer and Virgo have connection with material world-- and with wealth. [pisces really?? and cancer, I don't think so]

What you want the most have to have connection with your AC, Sun and Moon. If they are not into the materiality and earning money - then getting rich is not your theme. :whistling: At least so radical approach has Beverly A.Flynn.
She has wrote a great book about money and richness. :wink:
nice thread, perhaps you could mention this author in our Recommendations forum on the same topic

astrologer50
07-11-2011, 09:45 AM
I second a strong interest in this. If I hear another reference to the mind in 'modern' astrology I'll throw something out the window...

I know that there are search engines filled with info. but discerning the useful and trustworth from the rest is a rough task. I wonder if there is any astrologer on here interested in doing a mini-tutorial? I love tutorials on here with people who respond (info. pages don't do that) and I do learn a lot this way.

Good thread.

By Jove
I'm with you. Seems people 'still' want answers dropped in their laps without any effort/work themselves. People are soooo lazy. Traditional astrology to me has it's place in 'horary' and is far more complex than modern. I don't like those members that try to hedge their bets and say well I'm traditional but use uranus, neptune and pluto. These planets could not even be seen by the naked eye hundreds of years ago. Life and astrology has moved on so much and their importance should not be underestimated :smile:

dr. farr
07-11-2011, 09:46 AM
I certainly can see the Neptune connection-the great illusion (deception) of what material wealth represents, what its supposed to be (the meaning of life for so many people); yes, definitely I can see Neptune's connection with the common idea/concept of "wealth"!

Ruka_5
07-11-2011, 09:48 AM
I don't know if I just read that wrong or what, but I see up above where someone said venus is delusion? No, that's the shadow side of Neptune, not venus.

astrologer50
07-11-2011, 09:51 AM
I have a few novice questions if you'd be so kind as to oblige? :smile:

When a planet is said to be Occidental, does that mean it's below the horizon (Houses 1-6) or does it just refer to it moving away from the Sun or in the opposite half of the chart where the Sun is located? Is my understanding of this completely incorrect? :unsure:

Does a close opposition from Uranus to the Part/Lot of Fortune count or since Uranus is not considered a factor in Traditional astrology is that aspect deemed negligible?

What about Jupiter at a pitted degree? Is that a strong indicator against potential wealth or is it just one factor that could be mitigated by something more promising?

I apologize if my questions or trite or obvious. I'm trying to get a handle on Traditional astrology and I'm finding it a bit dense.

Although I do not study/use/or fully understand Traditional astrology, I do however want members to learn, so in that light will offer some 'learning links'

occidental
“Oriental means to rise before the Sun, occidental means to rise after the Sun. The qualities, significations and humoral qualities of the planets can change considerably according to whether they are oriental or occidental. For example, most planets gain in height and hair when oriental.”
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/oriental.html (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/oriental.html)

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/occidental-or-oriental.php (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/occidental-or-oriental.php)
http://www.your-astrology.com/oriental-vs-occidental-horoscopes.html (http://www.your-astrology.com/oriental-vs-occidental-horoscopes.html)
http://www.superglossary.com/Definition/Astrology/Occidental.html (http://www.superglossary.com/Definition/Astrology/Occidental.html)

positive
07-11-2011, 02:50 PM
@atrologer50 I can agree with neptun too. also about appearance. Neptun is the higher octave of venus [deleted attacking comment - Moderator]

BobZemco
08-13-2011, 09:30 PM
Sorry I am a little confused here, do we count the Sect Triplicity ruler of our chart, or of the sign that Fortuna falls in?

The Dispositor of the Lot of Fortune. You could also call it the Ruler Lot of Fortune. It will be the Planet that rules the Sign in which the Lot of Fortune is place.

And what if the Lot of Wealth falls in Sagittarius in the 2nd House, do we count Jupiter soley as the Almuten for that lot?

Probably, but not necessarily. Sun and Jupiter are the Day and Night Sect Triplicity Rulers respectively. There is no Exaltation Ruler for Sagittarius.

It's possible for Jupiter to be the Sign Ruler, Sun to be Fire Sect Ruler and the Lot to be in the Term of Venus. In that case, which of those three aspects the Lot within 2° applying/separating?

If none aspect the Lot, then which if the three is strongest?

My Fortune falls in Pisces at 24 Degrees, and I want to know if my calculations for the Almuten is correct; Pisces at 24 degrees

Ruler: Jupiter
Exaltation: Venus
Triplicity Ruler: Mars
Term Ruler: Mars

So is my Almuten Mars?

Correct.

Mars falls in the 1st House, is Occidental (Rises after the Sun), Domicile (In Scorpio), Free from Combustion, in its own Triplicity, direct in motion and conjunct my Mercury.

Then it sounds like Mars is very strong.

If Mars is Occidental and conjunct Mercury, then Mercury is Occidental in a Feminine Sign where it should be. Mercury sounds very strong as well, especially being received by Mars. That is something positive.

How that would apply to your life is that you would get a lot of lucky breaks, much more so than the average Joe.

My Mars and Jupiter recieve no aspect towards eachother (or by face, term, etc.), and Jupiter is Cadent but conjuct my Fixed Star Spica, rises before the Sun (Oriental), and Conjunct my Asc, and falls in its own Face. Which I think Jupiter is the Almuten of my Lot of Wealth.

Um, you might be confusing that with the Lot of Fortune. The Lot of Wealth is the Ascendant + 2nd House Cups Degree + Ruler 2nd House.

If Pisces is rising, you most likely have Aries as the 2nd House Cusp. Your Almuten of Wealth would be the Planet that has dominion over the Lot of Wealth, the Ruler of the Lot of Wealth, Jupiter, the 2nd House Cusp and the 2nd House Ruler.

My Part/Lot of Fortune is at .5 Leo

I can not tell if my Almuten is the Sun or Jupiter.

Neither can I without seeing the chart.

5° Leo is the Term of Jupiter. If your chart is a Night Chart, then Jupiter is both the Term Ruler and Fire Sect Triplicity Ruler and has more power than the Sun.

Also, just so everyone understands, Ptolemy used the Lot of Fortune to determine wealth, but everyone else uses the Lot of Substance, which I call the Lot of Wealth since that is what it signifies.

I'll post two charts here you can look at for more help.

1. When looking at the Profections and Solar Returns, what do you want see?

What makes an astrologer say "this is the year"?
What is the nature of the testimonies?
Did the past astrologers use the same system?

Ah, it was you. Okay, I answered those questions on another thread in the Predictive Section about William Lily's Death Indicators (or something akin to that).

2. Judging the natives chart, how would we know if the native wont marry?

You'll see indicators. Note that to the Ancients, marriage and cohabitation were one in the same. Rich people had weddings. Poor people usually licked each other and then went back to herding sheep or whatever it was they were doing.

Feral Saturn, Feral Venus, certain Combust significators, Almuten of Marriage inconjunct to both Sun and Moon, and a few others.

Concerning the natives partner. Could we describe her character? Looking at the natives chart?

In very general terms.

3. Primary Directions. What is this? Is this a modern thing or was this practiced by the ancients?

I answer that on the other thread, but briefly, it's a method of turning the Earth and watching the Planets form aspect to each other and to Chart Points (like the Ascendant, Midheaven and Lot of Fortune).

I have a theory that where the Directions are off by a day or two and the birth time is otherwise correct, the discrepancy is caused by perturbations in the Earth's orbit and also be 8.4 earthquakes that jar Earth.

1. When Ptolemy says Quadrant he means houses, yes?

I think Quarters might be a better term to use. What he means is the 12th, 11th and 10th Houses, and the 4th, 5th and 6th Houses are Masculine Quarters, while the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Houses and the 7th, 8th and 9th Houses are Feminine Quarters.

So the Almuten would be looked at and behave differently in one of them?

Not behave differently, rather be slightly weakened. Ideally, Sun, Jupiter and Saturn should be in Masculine Signs and Houses in Masculine Quarters and Oriental of the Sun. Mercury and Venus should be Occidental and in the Feminine Quarters (and Moon should be in a Feminine Quarter too).

I often mention a Planet's "condition" and what I'm looking at is whether a Planet is Fortunate or Unfortunate, and how strong it is.

How do we tell the difference between losing and gaining when looking at the chart?

Aspects mostly, but also Primary Directions.

If the progressed planet can only trine, square, sextile, conjunct, or is in opposition to the Lot of Wealth. Is it correct to presume trines and sextiles means gain and squares and oppositions are the loss of wealth?

That would be more or less true.

That goes back a lot to "condition." A Fortunate Planet that is powerful in the chart will give you a lot of gains, while a Fortunate Planet that is weak only so-so.

Could we tell how the native loses his wealth?

Yes, the aspects in the Natal Chart will tell the story, the Primary Directions will tell when.

The SniperBomber has a powerful Mars that also appears to be Fortunate. Let's assume Mars is the Almuten of Wealth. Look at your Primary Directions for the Ascendant. You see Ascendant trine Lot of Fortune. Calculate the age when that trine takes place.

Now determine the Profected Ascendant for that year (I show that on the other thread). Assume Aries or Scorpio is the Profected Ascendant. That makes Mars the Year Ruler.

Now cast the Solar Return Chart for that year and look at Mars. If Mars is in good condition, then it's probably a substantial gain. If Mars is in bad condition, then probably a minor loss.

Then look at the Primary Directions for that year to see when exactly that will happen.

1. Converse direction. Another predictive technique, yes? Does this go by another name?

This gets confusing. You can direct Points and Planets in the order of Signs (Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo etc) or against the order of Signs (Capricorn, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Libra etc). There is some confusion as to which is actually "converse."

Some say the Ascendant's motion (against the order of Signs) is direct and so any directions in the order of Signs is converse) while others say the Ascendant's motion (against the order of Signs) is converse.

Perhaps I should point out that the Ascendant naturally moves clock-wise in the Natal Chart. It is rising (toward the Midheaven -- the Midheaven moves toward the Descendant, the Descendant toward the Nadir).

Do we measure the difference in degrees and convert them into time?

Basically yes, but directions of the Midehaven are in Right Ascension, while those of the Ascendant are in Oblique Ascension (and those of the Descendant in Oblique Descension). The Planets are mixed so we use their Hourly Distance and Temporal Speed (as they cross the skies -- not their orbital speed).

2. Sale property of your home. What makes you say this? If Saturn trines the Lot of Fortune, would the nature of how its gained be different?

Saturn rules Real Estate, land and agriculture, among things.

Traditionalist held astrology to higher standards then, yes? More class too.

Yes, it's based on actual mathematical theories, instead of guesswork.

This sounds like modern astrology. Could you clarify for this me? I presumed judgement can yield a yes or no verdict and not maybe.

It's not always Black & White.

The Topic of Children is a good example. Sometimes you get mixed testimonies, and there's no way to provide a definitive answer, except by looking at Profections, Solar Returns and Primary Directions.

Or is this like a gate, a separation between those than can learn to earn, keep what they make, and those that no matter what, will never accumulate wealth to the point of class change.

That would be a good way of describing it.

You can look at these two charts for more examples.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21433&stc=1&d=1313270788


Lindsay Crosby was the son of famous crooner Bing Crosby (White Christmas and all those songs plus dozens of films with Bob Hope and others).

You see the Venus, the Ruler Lot of Wealth Combust and Unfortunate, and Mercury also Unfortunate being Perrine and Retrograde squares the Lot. Saturn the Almuten of Wealth is inconjunct the Lot.

He never really had it like the old man did. His music and film career never panned out, and so he never made the money his father did. That doesn't mean he was poor, because he wasn't. It just means he didn't do as well as his parents did.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21434&stc=1&d=1313270788

In this chart, you see Venus the Almuten of Wealth in sextile to the Lot of Wealth, but Mercury makes no aspect and is weak being Stationary, plus you see the Sun squares the Lot of Wealth, while both Moon and Jupiter oppose the Lot of Wealth. Jupiter rules the 2nd House and being in Pisces squares the 2nd House, which I guess is better than not being in aspect to the 2nd House at all.

Professor Gumby has never had a net worth greater than $50,000 US Dollars, except for maybe 2-3 years in his life when he worked for [the now defunct] Arthur Andersen LLP, and when he was a private investigator.

Even now, he owns an apartment and a house and has a chunk of cash (mostly in Euros) but the value of all that does not exceed $50,000. His life-time average annual income only barely exceeds $13,000.

1. Concerning the Lot of Debt. How sure are you of this? When using the Lots, do we look at bad aspects as warnings of bad happenings if the native proceeds to action?

The Lot of Debt is about your indebtedness, and the debts others owe to you. It may or may not impact your wealth. Usually if it will, you will see the Ruler Lot of Debt in square or opposition to the Ruler Lot of Wealth.

2. Azieme degree . What is this?Where did this idea originate? This is similar to pitted degrees, yes?

Yes. In reference to the history of Astrology, the Sumerians began keeping records of events of all manner: when a king ascended or died, when a war started, floods and other weather events, births, marriages and deaths, and of course infirmities and deformities observed at birth and over several thousand years identified certain Zodiac Degrees as essentially Benefic or Malefic.

Azieme Degrees in particular identify a birth defect or congenital deformity or illness.

Now I want to know about social class. I recall you spoke upon Conception Charts or the Natal Epoch. To my understanding this determines of the Native will be born a King, Champion Athlete, Common man, and so fourth.

Could you enlighten me on this? Who's idea this comes from, the ancients thoughts on this. I'm very interested. Perhaps you can turn me to an astrologer that wrote upon this.

It's quite ancient. It pre-dates Aristotle. Ptolemy gives it a treatment as confusing as it might be. They used the Conception Chart to determine events that effect the child in the womb. From that chart, they also determined rank and station, whether a birth would be single, or multiple, whether male of female, and birth defects.

I don't believe some of the later astrologers understood the use of the Conception Chart and so they sought alternative methods (which is why there is such a variation in the concept of "bodyguards").

The underlying principle is the same in any chart of any type, that a Planet is a Planet until aspected upon. I guess that's sort of like Newton's Laws where an object at rest remains at rest until acted upon.

One last thing, chart rectification. How does this work? Could you show me?

Now that I have figured out the Animodar sure.

I'll use Professor Gumby's chart to keep it simple. That chart is a Preventional Chart. How do we know? Because the Moon is applying to the conjunction of the Sun having completed its opposition to the Sun. So we need to cast a Lunation Chart for the Full Moon prior to birth (we would cast a Lunation Chart for the New Moon if the chart would be Conjunctional).

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21435&stc=1&d=1313270788

We use the Light Above Horizon for Full Moon Lunation Charts (and that would include a Lunar Eclipse for this purpose). That is the Sun at 28° Taurus 07'.

Which Planet has the greatest Dignity in the Sun? Venus does. Venus is the Sign Ruler and Venus is the Earth Sect Triplicity Ruler.

Now, switch back to the Natal Chart and look at Venus. To which is Venus closer in Degrees, the Ascendant or the Midheaven? Obviously the Midheaven at 1° Virgo 31'.

Yes, there are 30° in Virgo, but at Latitude 39°N07' how many degrees actually cross over the Midheaven as the Ascendant crosses the Horizon?

Look at the Right Ascensions of the Midheaven. We want the full 30° of Virgo so we subtract the Right Ascension at 0° Libra from the Right Ascension at 0° Virgo.

180°00' = 0° Libra at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0° Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
xxxxxxx

179°60'
152°05'
-------
027°55'

Now, the Midheaven is at 01°Virgo31' so how much Right Ascension is that?

153°32' = 1°31' Virgo at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0°00' Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
001°27'

We need the Hourly Distance of Venus.

Venus is at 4° Cancer 39'. Her Right Ascension is 95°04 and her Oblique Ascension is 74°30.

The Ascensional Difference is the Right Ascension minus the Oblique Ascension:

AD[Venus] = 95°04' - 74°30'

AD[Venus] = 20°34'

Venus is out-of-Bounds in this chart with a Declination of 24°N54' so we add the Ascensional Difference to 90° giving us 110°34' for the Semi-Diurnal Arc (we would subtract if the Declination was Negative and we would reverse that for those living in the Southern Hemisphere).

The Temporal Hours will be the Semi-Diurnal Arc divided by 6:

TH[Venus] = 110°34 / 6 = 18°25'

Then to find the Hourly Distance, we divide the Meridian Distance by 18°25'

How far away is Venus from the Midheaven by Right Ascension? We just subtract the RA of Venus from the Right Ascension of the Midheaven (RAMC).

Meridian Distance = 153°32' - 95°04'

Meridian Distance = 58°28'

Now we divide the Meridian Distance by the Temporal Hours to get the Hourly Distance

HD[Venus] = 58°28' / 18°25'

HD[Venus]= 3°10'

The Hourly Distance tells you the number of Houses away from the Meridian (either the MC or the IC) that a Planet is and that is what the whole number represents, and the fractional part is how far away from the Cusp of the House that Venus is.

Each House is essentially 2 Diurnal Hours. Think of the chart as a clock where the Ascendant is 6:00 AM so then 3 Houses or 6 Hours (3 * 2 = 6) later it is 12:00 PM and that is the Midheaven and the 6 Hours later is the Descendant at 6:00 PM and then 6 Hours later is the Nadir/IC at 12:00 AM and then we've come full circle back to the Ascendant at 6:00 AM in a 24-Hour period.

We just have to set up a simple proportion or a ratio:

27°55' : 2 = 1°27' : X

From our high school math, we know to cross-multiply and divide, and so we have:

2 * 1°27' / 27°55' = X

It's easier to use decimal notation:

2 * 1.45 / 27.91666 = X

2.9 / 27.91666 = X

0.03582 = X

So, um, what exactly is "0.03582" in Degrees?

It is less than 1°. That is what the big fat "0" means.

Let's multiply by 60 to convert to minutes:

60 * 0.03582 = 2.1492

That gives us 0°2.1492' of arc.

Multiply the 0.1492 * 60 = 8"

So there is a difference of 0°02'08"

Can we round that off? Sure, let's call it 0°02'

Now, there are 24 Hours in one day and 360° in the Zodiac Circle.

How many Degrees are in 1 Hour?

Simple, 360 / 24 = 15° and you might notice the longitudinal meridians around Earth are 0° 15° 30° etc and most of the Time Zones are based on those.

If there are 15° in 1 Hour, how many Degrees are in 1 Minute?

Simple, 15° in 60 Minutes or 1° every 4 Minutes.

And that is 30' every 2 Minutes or 15' every Minute/60 Seconds or 1' every 4 seconds.

So my birth time is off by about 8 or 9 seconds or so.

Now, if I was the Anal Retentive Astrologer, I would rip everything up, chuck it out the window and start with a whole new chart and post 30 "Read My Chart" threads about the new birth time.

Thanks for the help. I'll pay you back one day

Pay it forward.

bardevolved
08-31-2011, 12:04 PM
I think 2nd house is also about speech.....I dont know but a general predictive thought : people who are not good in communication are not good in wealth.

astrologer50
08-31-2011, 12:35 PM
]I think 2nd house is also about speech[/B].....I dont know but a general predictive thought : people who are not good in communication are not good in wealth.

communication is seen by evaluating mercury, what houses mercury rules (gemini, virgo) and 3rd house being basicc education and naturally ruled by gemini.

I have never heard of 2nd house being about speech? could you cite some sources?

byjove
08-31-2011, 01:00 PM
I've heard about the second house being associated with the throat, if that's what someone is referring to?

astrologer50
08-31-2011, 02:53 PM
I've heard about the second house being associated with the throat, if that's what someone is referring to?

This is health conditions for the signs.

the weakest point for taureans, I can vouch for that having tonsils out at 16 after years of misery. Mercury in taurus can be good singers. I don't associate with throat and earning money with communnications, unless mercury is posited 2nd

bardevolved
08-31-2011, 07:08 PM
I ll tell u my story................

First of all vedic astrology tells that 2nd house is the house of speech , and any affliction to 2nd house causes speech impediment.

In my case....2nd house lord mars is in 6th house ...but i noticed mercury the natural ruler of comunication is in 29 degree of libra and in the 8th house. 29 degree is a critical degree. Sometimes i feel like talking too much...and most of the times i dont feel like talking....basically i am silent type.....but if your in a job that needs you to talk too much how difficult it is when someone who does not want to talk.................oh there were lot more emotional turmoil happened in my life,.....but i should not talk about them as these are out of context

When a person becomes too good from heart he becomes a poet, and even a drunkard....astrology ? why i was so intrested in astrology....its due to the kid of family influence

astrologer50
08-31-2011, 07:18 PM
I ll tell u my story................

First of all vedic astrology tells that 2nd house is the house of speech , and any affliction to 2nd house causes speech impediment.

In my case....2nd house lord mars is in 6th house ...but i noticed mercury the natural ruler of comunication is in 29 degree of libra and in the 8th house. 29 degree is a critical degree. Sometimes i feel like talking too much...and most of the times i dont feel like talking....basically i am silent type.....but if your in a job that needs you to talk too much how difficult it is when someone who does not want to talk.................oh there were lot more emotional turmoil happened in my life,.....but i should not talk about them as these are out of context

When a person becomes too good from heart he becomes a poet, and even a drunkard....astrology ? why i was so intrested in astrology....its due to the kid of family influence

perhaps if you mentioned you were referring to vedic instead of 99% of us here using modern western astrology, then there would be no confusion :love:

SniperBomber328
09-01-2011, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/simpleblue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297789#post297789)
Sorry I am a little confused here, do we count the Sect Triplicity ruler of our chart, or of the sign that Fortuna falls in?
The Dispositor of the Lot of Fortune. You could also call it the Ruler Lot of Fortune. It will be the Planet that rules the Sign in which the Lot of Fortune is place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/simpleblue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297789#post297789)
And what if the Lot of Wealth falls in Sagittarius in the 2nd House, do we count Jupiter soley as the Almuten for that lot?

Probably, but not necessarily. Sun and Jupiter are the Day and Night Sect Triplicity Rulers respectively. There is no Exaltation Ruler for Sagittarius.

It's possible for Jupiter to be the Sign Ruler, Sun to be Fire Sect Ruler and the Lot to be in the Term of Venus. In that case, which of those three aspects the Lot within 2° applying/separating?

If none aspect the Lot, then which if the three is strongest?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/simpleblue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297789#post297789)
My Fortune falls in Pisces at 24 Degrees, and I want to know if my calculations for the Almuten is correct; Pisces at 24 degrees

Ruler: Jupiter
Exaltation: Venus
Triplicity Ruler: Mars
Term Ruler: Mars

So is my Almuten Mars?

Correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/simpleblue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297789#post297789)
Mars falls in the 1st House, is Occidental (Rises after the Sun), Domicile (In Scorpio), Free from Combustion, in its own Triplicity, direct in motion and conjunct my Mercury.

Then it sounds like Mars is very strong.

If Mars is Occidental and conjunct Mercury, then Mercury is Occidental in a Feminine Sign where it should be. Mercury sounds very strong as well, especially being received by Mars. That is something positive.

How that would apply to your life is that you would get a lot of lucky breaks, much more so than the average Joe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperBomber328 http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/simpleblue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297789#post297789)
My Mars and Jupiter recieve no aspect towards eachother (or by face, term, etc.), and Jupiter is Cadent but conjuct my Fixed Star Spica, rises before the Sun (Oriental), and Conjunct my Asc, and falls in its own Face. Which I think Jupiter is the Almuten of my Lot of Wealth.

Um, you might be confusing that with the Lot of Fortune. The Lot of Wealth is the Ascendant + 2nd House Cups Degree + Ruler 2nd House.

If Pisces is rising, you most likely have Aries as the 2nd House Cusp. Your Almuten of Wealth would be the Planet that has dominion over the Lot of Wealth, the Ruler of the Lot of Wealth, Jupiter, the 2nd House Cusp and the 2nd House Ruler.


-x-x-x-x-

A little messy above, but all that was written by Bob, whom I like to thank very much for giving my chart a deep analysis. Didn't notice earlier so I apologize, and thank you bob once again for replying to so many posts. ( I sould like some sort of semeritan, however you spell that).

Also Bob if your reading this, what I meant was that my Part of Wealth lands at 7 Degrees Sagittarius in the 2nd House. I'm Scorpio Rising, and my Venus sextiles this lot. Also my Mars Trines my PoF and Mercury partile Trines my PoF.

JUPITERASC
10-31-2018, 09:26 PM
It's my understanding

that
traditional astrology centers on physical matters
and modern with non
ie. the mind.


That's erroneous - traditional astrology is concerned with mind as well :smile:



Having said that, I would like an understanding in traditionalist ways.

How do we delineate wealth in a horoscope?
Is it possible to find where the wealth will be made?
How about the timing or loss?

Where could I find this information?

Senecar
11-03-2018, 06:39 PM
That's erroneous - traditional astrology is concerned with mind as well :smile:


Do you have some examples with explanation for the statement? :)

Sethu
11-04-2018, 08:27 AM
It's my understanding that traditional astrology centers on physical matters and modern with non ie. the mind. Having said that, I would like an understanding in traditionalist ways.

How do we delineate wealth in a horoscope?
Is it possible to find where the wealth will be made?
How about the timing or loss?

Where could I find this information?

There are different ways and approaches in different system of astrology .Social network has Millions of information,if not thousands, on this .But most of them were afflicted like planets except few hundreds.In case if you follow those,to have ideas,and stick with it,then you will follow a way to find an answer like this :
: (2134>3267%rh31*1028)/12346#78 = 2

However,the foundation way of seeing mass wealth is based on traditional and very old texts and jamakol systems are.

Yes.Jupiter and Venus plays a role as karak,through sun.But it depends on individual horoscope.check DK ( Dana karak ) in your chart.immaterial of which planet is that,it is the key.If you have confusion on this ,then find out this key in another way.

a) Decide whether your lagna or rashi which is strongest ?
b) then 10 house planets from the above is the key planets.In case if you dont see any planets occupying it,then go to find out ,in navamsa,where this rashi 10th lord is sitting ? That Navamsa lord is the key .

However,the below ,will help ,fundamentally ,to open the door with the above key.

1.your Lagna lord should be strong
2.If Lagna lord connected with 5th and Ninth house by any means.( and not to be associated with 12th house or Lord )
3.Check 4th house lord.see where he is in the chart in birth.check who is 10th lord from this place.Finally check whether he has any association with Lagna or lagna lord.

The above is simple ,mostly applies with 70 % accuracy based on my research.( But remember there are several other ways to look deeply ).And to find the sources of wealth,check the same planet and house of the above point no 3.if this is ,

1.House - by self ,hard work
2.House - Collective with family
3.House - Brothers,local friends,influences,brokerages
4.House - Mother ,maternal ,through properties link
5.House- Due to previous good deeds,gambling,shares etc
6.House - through your enemies,debts (borrowing loans and converting as assets and run away )
7.House - Through Business associations,wife and relations
8.House - Lottery,unexpected gains,etc
9.House -through research,politics associations,father,teaching
10.House =through profession,etc.,
11-House- Friends,community,brothers
12-House- through overseas associations,imports,exports,

In case of need,I can send a tutorial with real case studies( not Old charts as usual as Justification after the incidents ) if needed,

God Bless all,

JUPITERASC
11-04-2018, 02:18 PM
Do you have some examples with explanation for the statement? :)
If you have some examples with explanation that contradict the statement
do post examples and/or links to them :smile:

Senecar
11-04-2018, 08:33 PM
If you have some examples with explanation that contradict the statement
do post examples and/or links to them :smile:

First of all, what is mind? How do you define mind? What do you mean when you say " traditional astrology is concerned with mind?" :)

petosiris
11-05-2018, 12:16 AM
No you :smile:

JUPITERASC
11-05-2018, 03:09 PM
First of all, what is mind?
How do you define mind?
What do you mean when you say " traditional astrology is concerned with mind?" :)
Indeed :smile:

Senecar
11-07-2018, 09:27 AM
Indeed :smile:

Because, in the past history, mind was usually equated with soul, which has its own entity, and flies into heaven for afterlife world.

Recently, most people don't believe in that concept of mind, unless deeply religious. But mind is more seen as function of biological entity = brain, and has motivation, desires, different emotions and reasonings i.e. ability to think in logical ways etc.

There are many diiferent schools of philosophy looking at mind from different angles, so it is not that all simple to say, well this is mind. :)

Ada
11-07-2018, 12:13 PM
It feels like chemistry class. Degreees, houses, transitions etc etc seemed too alien. I think it would take years for me to understand charts, especially wealth in the chart ( I truly want to learn though to play lottery :))) )

Good input by everyone though. Thank you all for the discusssion.

JUPITERASC
11-07-2018, 02:22 PM
It feels like chemistry class.
Degreees, houses, transitions etc etc seemed too alien.
I think it would take years for me to understand charts, especially
wealth in the chart ( I truly want to learn though to play lottery :))) )
Good input by everyone though. Thank you all for the discusssion.
a willingness to study is important
BENJAMIN DYKES translation simplifies these concepts :smile:
webpage at https://www.bendykes.com/

Ada
11-07-2018, 04:55 PM
a willingness to study is important
BENJAMIN DYKES translation simplifies these concepts :smile:
webpage at https://www.bendykes.com/

His books are not for people whose bank accounts are empty :)

JUPITERASC
11-07-2018, 05:04 PM
His books are not for people whose bank accounts are empty :)
BENJAMIN DYKES has spent years
translating traditional texts previously unavailable in English :smile:
so the prices are reasonable
if you cannot afford ANY of the books then

Introduction to Traditional Astrology lecture costs $4.99

covers eight major differences in technique, attitude, and approach

which distinguish traditional astrology from modern types. (Length 38:20, 18MB).
https://www.bendykes.com/product/introduction-to-traditional-astrology/

JUPITERASC
11-07-2018, 05:35 PM
His books are not for people whose bank accounts are empty :)
meanwhile there is a generously FREE alternative from Charlie Obert :smile:
at http://theastrologypodcast.com/2018/05/10/essential-dignities-and-debilities-with-charles-obert/?fbclid=IwAR0cWRk9jboCtg19axyx31z7SV7l-VZ0276nPqDB4PVLJYNlDgSz2m19brA
In episode 156 of THE ASTROLOGY PODCAST astrologer Charles Obert joins the show
to talk about the concept of essential dignities and debilities
and how they are used to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.

Ada
11-07-2018, 09:29 PM
BENJAMIN DYKES has spent years
translating traditional texts previously unavailable in English :smile:
so the prices are reasonable
if you cannot afford ANY of the books then

Introduction to Traditional Astrology lecture costs $4.99

covers eight major differences in technique, attitude, and approach

which distinguish traditional astrology from modern types. (Length 38:20, 18MB).
https://www.bendykes.com/product/introduction-to-traditional-astrology/


Well i cannot invest the money in that right now is the right word I think, tight budget and have to be careful. Thank you for the alternative website, as always you are full of information. I should just read Bob or follow and I think I would be fine ( joking).

Thank you again.

SunConjunctUranus
12-17-2018, 06:44 PM
Hello guys, just came across this site: https://af.cpptea.com/astrofox.php?dat=199601211240002020280014449001322 1&name=R&loc=Rantepao%20(Indonesia)

I had sun in detriment position and mercury rx combust. :crying: , but lot of wealth (29°capricorn) is near my sun 0°Aquarius. So what is that mean guys?

Additional: my jupiter cap is in fall and sextile venus, I should be careful with female.

JUPITERASC
12-17-2018, 06:49 PM
Hello guys, just came across this site: https://af.cpptea.com/astrofox.php?dat=199601211240002020280014449001322 1&name=R&loc=Rantepao%20(Indonesia)

I had sun in detriment position and mercury rx combust. :crying: ,
but lot of wealth (29°capricorn) is near my sun 0°Aquarius.
So what is that mean guys?


Additional: my jupiter cap is in fall and sextile venus, I should be careful with female.
Seems an excellent traditional astrology software program site :smile:
would be useful if you are able to post the chart they calculated
as it is necessary to view the chart
in order to make relevant comment

SunConjunctUranus
12-17-2018, 06:53 PM
Seems an excellent traditional astrology software program site :smile:
would be useful if you are able to post the chart they calculated
as it is necessary to view the chart
in order to make relevant comment



Is this what you mean?


https://i.ibb.co/NyJHwpQ/chart.gif (https://ibb.co/NyJHwpQ)

JUPITERASC
12-17-2018, 06:59 PM
Is this what you mean?


https://i.ibb.co/NyJHwpQ/chart.gif (https://ibb.co/NyJHwpQ)
that does not show Part of Fortune as being conjunct Sun :smile:

Part of Fortune is shown in First House in Gemini
if you look at the chart

SunConjunctUranus
12-17-2018, 07:04 PM
that does not show Part of Fortune as being conjunct Sun :smile:

Part of Fortune is shown in First House in Gemini
if you look at the chart

I'm not sure but they said this: https://i.ibb.co/DkkBxYF/Screenshot-20181218-030322.jpg (https://ibb.co/DkkBxYF)

Oh I thought part of fortune and part of almuten is different. And opposite to the jupiter? Jupiter lord appear to be my descendant.

SunConjunctUranus
12-17-2018, 07:13 PM
The Almuten will give you hints at how you acquire whatever wealth you might get, through your own labor, through inheritance, through luck, through your own wit and cunning and skill, through arts and crafts and other Venusian things and so on, through leadership and command ability (like running your own business or running someone else's business) or other Martian things and so on.



Acquiring through mercury then?

JUPITERASC
12-17-2018, 07:16 PM
I'm not sure but they said this: https://i.ibb.co/DkkBxYF/Screenshot-20181218-030322.jpg (https://ibb.co/DkkBxYF)

Oh I thought part of fortune and part of almuten is different.
And opposite to the jupiter?
Jupiter lord appear to be my descendant.

the part of fortune and the almuten ARE different

If you look at that chart you posted
the symbol for the Part of Fortune is in Gemini :smile:
at 24 degrees Gemini
that is also written on the Basic Data table
which is directly below the chart on the website page you linked to

the following is example of the symbol for the Part of Fortune

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/part-of-fortune.jpg

SunConjunctUranus
12-17-2018, 07:17 PM
the part of fortune and the almuten are different

If you look at that chart you posted
the symbol for the Part of Fortune is in Gemini :smile:
at 24 degrees Gemini
that is also written on the Basic Data table
which is directly below the chart on the website page you linked to

the following is example of the symbol for the Part of Fortune

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/part-of-fortune.jpg

So where is the Almuten? How to calculate it?

They said almuten figuris is in 29° cap so that would be conjunct my sun

JUPITERASC
12-17-2018, 07:26 PM
So where is the Almuten? How to calculate it?
They said almuten figuris is in 29° cap
so that would be conjunct my sun

They said Saturn is your almuten figuris :smile:
and
it is SAN (last new/full moon)
that is approximated to: 29° https://af.cpptea.com/sim/co.png 11' 3.09"

QUOTE
Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine
where one planet according to certain calculations applied,
receives the honors to be the Ruler or Lord of the Chart.
Robert Zoler had applied the term AlmuteM
instead of AlmuteN
in order to differentiate
the Lord of the Chart
from
the Lord of certain house or place in the natal chart
such as Almuten Domus (Ruler of a House).

The word Almutes is an Arabian word which means 'Winner'.
Because, the planet is the Winner of all the 'life giving' places.
Or the places which are most sensible and important in the natal figure.

JUPITERASC
12-17-2018, 07:29 PM
04-18-2012, 02:56 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 277


Almutem Figuris https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49000
I was asked in private message to explain the method of calculating the Almutem Figuris of the chart, so I thought that since this is new forum (traditional astrology) it would be better to open a thread here and explain the method publicly where we can all discuss it.

Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine where one planet according to certain calculations applied, receives the honors to be the Ruler or Lord of the Chart.
Robert Zoler had applied the therm AlmuteM instead of AlmuteN in order to differentiate the Lord of the Chart from the Lord of certain house or place in the natal chart such as Almuten Domus (Ruler of a House).

The word Almutes is an Arabian word which means 'Winner'.
Because, the planet is the Winner of all the 'life giving' places. Or the places which are most sensible and important in the natal figure.

The method which we'll use here I call Ezra/Zoller method.
Arabian Astrologer Ibn Ezra (1089 — 1164) was the first (as far as we at this moment are aware) to explicitely wrote about calculating the Almutem Figuris.

In his writings Zoller trace the beginnings of this Almutem Figuris and he found it in the writings of Iambichus (c. 245–c. 325) who was Syrian neo-platonic philosopher who wrote also about Astrology in his writings.
Iambicus in his work "Theurgy or on the mysteries of Egypt" speaks about the thing how one can change his fate. He speaks that he can do that through Theurgy and through personal relationship with the Lord of the Geniture of which he (Iambichus) only says that can be known through Astrology, but he didn't explained the method.
Zoller, tracing back the Ibn Ezra's ancestry, through the Sabaeans and his teachers (Mashallah and other) all the way to the first centuries where this doctrine was thought. Because of that line Zoller thinks that the Lord of the Geniture of which Iambichus speaks in his writings is in fact the Almutem Figuris of the Ibn Ezra.

Iambichus speaks (through the name of Porphyry) about the Peculiar Daimon, that is some kind of an Guardian Angel and it is conected to the personal soul but its not the same
Here's what Iambichus says in his Theurgy:
This [daimon] therefore is present as an exemplar before the souls descend into the realm of generated existence. As soon as the soul chooses him for leader the [daimon] immediately comes into charge of completing of its vital endowments and when it descends into the body it unites with the body and becomes the guardian of it common living principle. He likewise directs the the private life of the soul and
whatever the conclusions we may arrive at by inference and reasoning he himself imparts to us the principles."

Zoller about the Almutem Figuris says that it is equally as powerful as all the other planets taken together."

Benjamin Dykes (great student of Zoller) says about Almutem Figuris:
"Almutem Figuris, a powerful planet in the natal figure whose spirit or angel acts as the native's special link to the Divine. The Almutem Figuris is a spiritual astrological delineation, similar to but not the same as Lilly's the "Lord of the Geniture." But like Lilly (and Plato), the Almutem Figuris was taken to affect the native's thoughts, beliefs and character. Spiritual enlightenment can demand that we open our eyes to this particular planet and use it to access the Divine. Significantly, this is a function that many modern astrologers now attribute to the sun sign." (In his article on Happiness).

The method of calculation

1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers), in the Degree of the:
- Sun
- Moon
- Ascendant
- Part of Fortune
- Syzygy (the prenatal lunation, the one that came last, i.e. after which the birth follows - New or Full Moon).

2. Add 7 points for the Day ruler and 6 points to the Hour ruler.

3. Add accidental dignities scores.

For the planet in 1st house you add 12 points.
10th house = 11 points
7th house = 10
4th house = 9
11th = 8
5th = 7
2nd = 6
9th = 5
8th = 4
3rd = 3
12th = 2
6th = 1

The planet which has most points in the aforesaid places is the Almutem Figuris of the chart!

Don't forget to apply the 5 degrees ruler for the planet near the cusp of the houses. For example, if Saturn is at 15 Scorpio in 4th, but the 5th house cusp is at 19 Scorpio, you will calculate that Saturn already in the 5th, and you will give him 7 points instead of 9 as he would took if he was in 4th house. This can make big difference.

The free traditional astrology software - Morinus (google it), calcualte the Almutem Figuris. You can find this option by typing F3. But I should warn you that in that calculation is included some adding of points according to the planets phases. Zoller did not mention any kind of phases calculation so at this moment I'm not aware why the author of the software did included that.

But the best way and more enjoyable is to calculate it with your own hand. You will be familiar with the chart more deeply if you do this calculations with your own hand as the older astrologers did.
And if you must use the Morinus software than subtract the phases scores and you will get the Almutem Figuris right. All else is the same calculation as the Ezra/Zoller method.

Zoller gives short discriptions for every planet being Almutem Figuris:

Sun:
"If the Almuten figuris is the Sun, the native will want to lead, express his creative power and be recognized."

Moon:
"If the Moon, s/he will want to care for, be cared for, eat and make love, dream"

Mercury:
"If it is Mercury, s/he will be diligent in the sciences, business and communications"

Venus:
"Id it is Venus s/he will be a lover of beauty, of music, of men and women etc."

Mars:
"If it is Mars, s/he will fight in order to dominate"

Jupiter:
"If it is Jupiter, s/he will philosophize and teach"

Saturn:
"If it is Saturn he will retire from society, investigate hidden things and suffer adversity.""
Last edited by Omnisphericus; 04-18-2012 at 03:02 AM.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/images/futura/buttons/quote.gif (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=381593)

SunConjunctUranus
12-17-2018, 07:37 PM
They said Saturn is your almuten figuris :smile:
and
it is SAN (last new/full moon)
that is approximated to: 29° https://af.cpptea.com/sim/co.png 11' 3.09"

QUOTE
Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine
where one planet according to certain calculations applied,
receives the honors to be the Ruler or Lord of the Chart.
Robert Zoler had applied the term AlmuteM
instead of AlmuteN
in order to differentiate
the Lord of the Chart
from
the Lord of certain house or place in the natal chart
such as Almuten Domus (Ruler of a House).

The word Almutes is an Arabian word which means 'Winner'.
Because, the planet is the Winner of all the 'life giving' places.
Or the places which are most sensible and important in the natal figure.

Okay but the aspect of part of fortune opposite jupiter seems to be bright especially jupiter lord is in the 7H.

Suffering adversity?????

JUPITERASC
12-17-2018, 08:55 PM
Okay but the aspect of part of fortune opposite jupiter
seems to be bright especially jupiter lord is in the 7H.
Suffering adversity?????
It is the condition of the ruler of the part of fortune :smile:
that is important
read and study the thread I linked to at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49000