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byjove
09-11-2010, 01:22 AM
"Although Mercury is in detriment in Pisces, this position does not impair intelligence. It merely suggests that the mind resists the rule of pure logic and refuses to be pinned down to hard facts..."

http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Planets%20Through%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20Though%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20in%20Pisces.htm

Why is a Refresh Needed?
I've decided to open this thread, despite the information out there on this combination because as a native of this I'm disappointed at the widespread and near-blanket negativity (and at times righteousness) that I find generally accompanies interpretations of this feature of the nativity.

I think this is dangerous becuase it can train people new to astrology that either they or natives of this placement are automatically doomed or crazy. Natives with the Sun in Libra (detriment) are not trained to believe themselves incapable, nor should these natives! :biggrin:

If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will spend it's whole life believing it is stupid.
(Some people say Albert Einstein said this, though it is hard to qualify this. The idea is right though.)

What really troubles me when I read about this placement, is a derisive tone about it. Laughing and ridiculing is not understanding.This comes from prejudice and a lack of understanding - not from knowledge. A true understanding of the Zodiac knows there is good and bad potential in every placement and every sign.

When this far is accepted, I'm the very first person ready to sit down and discuss the difficult parts of this placement in the nativity and it's origins. I didn't intend for this to be a scientific or thoroughly academic view of the matter, though any such ideas are always welcome.

Common Attacks on Mercury in Pisces

Delusion and Impracticality
This stems from the imagination. Mutuable water is a rich, fertile ground for dreams. A stern lawyer could of course find a painter as a deluded crazy person that will amount to nothing in life. But that just shows that the lawyer doesn't understand the painter.

Any planet in Pisces runs the risk of building or harbouring beliefs which bring more disappointment than happiness. We must remember that Venus exalts in this sign. Venus is more responsible for social relationships than any other planet (though some may argue the Moon) and so a Venus in Pisces would have some beliefs and behaviour in common with Mercury in Pisces natives. With this in mind, how could M in P natives be so doomed? I think the clues are in the primary functions of Mercury; communication, thought processes - Mercury is the agent of communication to the Sun.

I note that traditional users would refer to Jupiter being the ruler of Pisces and that these assumptions of peril don't appear - they appear with the modern ruler of Neptune. Hopefully, some discussion on this may be possible.

Intelligence
There is a rampant perception that this position creates an 'unintelligent' native. I have never found such prejudice with natives with the Sun in Libra for instance, I don't imagine how they could be 'less able' to achieve their day to day aims or identify in life but I do notice the contrary tendencies and needed adjustments. That is all - no more. So I think this perception with M in P is totally unwarranted, and astrologers who have done their research already know this perception comes from a lack of understanding.

Addictions
I have not known these natives to suffer from addictions any more than the next person. To be honest, living through an economic depression in the West, if I labelled every alcholic/drug user as Mercury in Pisces, one would imagine that everyone tries to have Mercury in Pisces children. The numbers just don't stack up.

Natural Difficulties
A discussion of this placement would benefit perhaps from an honest recognision of natual difficulties. Rejecting prejudices with this placement isn't about denial.

1. Academic study. This is of course altered by other features in the chart, but this placement still has an overriding effect on formal education particularly. Perhaps home education could be different - more personalised and environmental.

2. The Disney Effect. There is a recognisable desire in natives to get along with people. The attitude (and expectation) is honest, open and cooperative. Of course, the rest of the chart alters this but many of these traits still come through. This can prove difficult when accepting that not everyone has one's best interests at heart, is honest and not everyone that smiles at you is a friend. Some natives I've found unable to accept this. Perhaps the good intention is what makes natives vulnerable to unscrupulous types - easy to deceive.

3. Absorbing other's emotions, difficulties etc. In many ways, it's just like taking on the whole world's problems. The thing is that one person cannot fix them. Sympathy to the point of self-destruction is good for no one. Pisces (Neptune or otherwise) is often associated with dissolvement. Natives could perhaps benefit from developing techniques to build walls emotionally to protect themselves.

Mercury in Pisces in Education
I would be very interested in perspectives on this. I can't comment yet on a wide sample of Mercury in Pisces natives in an educational context, though I an at least comment on my own. I always found math and accounting difficult. What became clear was that I understood what needed to be done, but I forgot figures or placements, my mind or concentration wandered. I have studied a number of foreign languages. This is one of the arenas in which I noticed that Mercury in Pisces 'learns as if by osmosis' and definitely not in the traditional, academic, follow-the-rules fashion. Interestingly though, as the well-respected linguistic software Rosetta Stone teaches, the best environment to learn a new language is in a natural, enviornmental one, e.g. surrounded by natives and being a part of day to day life. This is why college courses in languages aim to get students to live abroad (which I did). This aspect of learning I expect Mercury in Pisces would excel in. I suspect Mercury in Pisces played a significant part in my approach in business education - aiming to cooperate, strike alliances and win-win situations.

Natural Talents
I intend to do as deep research on this as I can and heartily welcome contributions. I notice that a powerful imagination is frequent and this could be harnessed. I wonder how many natives are in art, architecture, story-telling, design, writing? If I mention imagination, which Albert Einstein described more important than knowledge, of of course communication ought to be mentioned. Also, any planet in Pisces seems to highlight music in the native's life and Mercury in Pisces along with Venus must be top of the list. With Mercury, we talk of the voice but also of motion - a physical reaction to the sound of music - dancing.

Health conditions related to this position discussed in the medical astrology section: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=450319#post450319

piscesnurse
09-11-2010, 01:33 AM
Thank i have mercury in pisces in conj with sun and venus and p art of fortune in 12
i love my mercury in pisces
i am i am a nurse one has to be smart and have logic and common sense to be a nurse
i use my merc in pisces at work all the time as far as caring and intution
and i am a medical intuitive and i am poetic and i love to write
i feel i have universal love of all

byjove
09-11-2010, 01:46 AM
That's a lovely message Piscesnurse! And such a great exhibit of the finest features! :biggrin: --baths in the knowledge of the firm contribution of Pisces--

BobZemco
09-11-2010, 02:11 AM
...an exploration, a discussion and above all a rejection to the misunderstandings of old.

Uh, okay, but you're looking at modern interpretations, not Ancient interpretations. If you want I'd be happy to take a look at your Mercury from an Ancient perspective.

piscesnurse
09-11-2010, 03:03 AM
sure if u want i am open to anything input but i am quite happy

piscesnurse
09-11-2010, 03:04 AM
thanks so much!!!!! byjove
and thanks bob for ur input as well

dr. farr
09-11-2010, 03:30 AM
Well, a couple of things (from the way I look at delineation)
-Mercury WHERE in Pisces?
-because (in my belief system) the generic ramifications of a planet in a sign are further modified/refined by:
...the influence of the decanate (or face) of the sign the planet is in; and then even further influenced by the duodenary (sign 1/12th) the planet is in
...and then: is "Mercury in Pisces" (as modified by the decan/face and as further modified by the duodenary placement) conjunct or parallel a fixed star? This would further influence the ramifications of "Mercury in Pisces"
...and then I would ask: is "Mercury in Pisces" (and in X decan/face and in X duodenary) in a critical, pitted or elevated degree? Because if it is in either a critical or elevated degree (in the tradition I follow) then any of the negative influences of Mercury (in that sign, decan/face, duodenary) would be impeded (largely blocked) and any of its positive qualities emphasized; if instead Mercury is in a pitted degree, then all the + and - "meanings" of Mercury's condition in the sign (decan/face-duodenary) are reduced to a minimum and the mercurial influence in that chart would be rendered almost neutral (!) ....
Anyhow that is the way I delineate such things; certainly this is not the generally accepted way-even in traditionalist astrology-but, for me at least, this approach gives insights which are not readily discoverable by other approaches, and which, in my experience, have proven to be of much value.

Kannon
09-11-2010, 03:49 AM
Some older and non-humanist interpretations of planets in the sign of their detriment seem to simply express how the planet is badly expressed, thus leading to the problems you point to, ByJove. The assumption seems to be that 'detriment' should automatically = 'bad.'

I look at the planets in detriment as planets operating in the signs of their least natural expression (as opposed to dignity being positions of most natural expression). This doesn't mean good vs. bad. For example, I was born when Moon was in detriment in Capricorn. I definitely experienced some of the worst that had to offer. I tired of it and it is no longer relevant to how I choose to live my life. Through my experience, what I came to understand is that with Moon in Capricorn (assuming no planetary aspects altering this...) the person often operates emotionally as if in left-brain mode - reversed from what is most natural, which is to go with the flow of how feeling is experienced. Instead Capricorn-Mooners attempt to order things, time things in ways that would normally be given to mathematical or purely intellectual operations. At the very least they seem to need a structure in which to safely express feeling so that there is a definite predictability or expectation involved. Spontaneity of feeling and expression is uncomfortable for them and probably inappropriate for their balance - at least until it is no longer livable for them.

So to you I'd say, come to your own understanding of how Mercurical faculties express themselves in a way that is appropriate for who you are. I know that Mercury in Pisces is much more open-ended, possibility and dream-oriented than is typical for Mercury in Virgo or Gemini, where it is focused on either practical matters of order and detailed analysis (virgo-clarity) or is focused on relaying information in a communication-relational manner (gem-messenger).

Maybe Mercury in Pisces could be expressed as left brain logical or rational faculties operating as if in the right-brain creative mode in which dictionary definitions need not apply.

Peace.

milkywaygirl
09-11-2010, 06:55 AM
I have mercury in pisces in the 4th, i have very emotionally coloured thinking, i often have to stop myself from assigning a bigger meaning to a simple thing like a phrase spoken on tv, or the colour of the girls hair in line in front of me, etc. for me, nothing is ever cut and dry. every thing that i see and that happens has a bigger meaning.

some people might call me apathetic, but i just dont really care about a lot of the things that other people care about - politics, humanitarianism, sports, whatever. i figure that someone else will care about them, so i dont have to. its not that i dont "care", but i just know that its not for me.

when i speak to people, i speak in a weird kind of code i guess, i never really say what i actually mean. i will say something seemingly unrelated or completely opposite to what i think, but in a way that an intuitive person would know what i meant.

im highly intuitive when it comes to body language and the general vibes a person puts out. this can be problematic because often what someone says is not what they mean and their body betrays them, but then sometimes their mind doesnt even know what their body/self actually wants. so its like having a real knowledge of other people and their true selves.

i think a lot about piscean things - high romance, spiritual thoughts, and i dream just about every night, in vivid detail. i can smell and hear in my dreams. my dreams are highly symbolic and have become progressively easier to interpret and then utilize the info in my waking life. its a really great thing. i sometimes have problems though, trying to discern whether i dreamt something, or whether it actually happened.

the way that i collect and process information is completely haphazard, i read books in no particular order, i "try on" others opinions about a topic until i've tried many, and then still dont really pick a definitive point of view for myself. i think one thing one day, and the next day it could completely change, and i wouldnt really feel one way or another about that. when i do data entry, i have to force myself to start at the first column and go down sequencially, as i wouuld much rather start at the bottom and work halfway then skip to another area and enter some etc etc.

as i have mercury in the 4th, i have a lot of books at home. i enjoy spending an evening randomly picking and opening books and reading whatever i open to, and then wondering about whether there is a bigger meaning in that particular passage.

i will totally avoid the reality of certain situations/people and can really fool myself for long periods of time. and then one day it will just click in me and thats that.

i daydream all the time and have had to start consciously not letting myself daydream so much. i could lie down and daydream for hours, i can make up the most intense scenes in my head, with smells and sounds and colour and everything. i can also daydream music, and actually hear the music however i heard it in the past. i have some crazy concentration skills - i recently starting doing yoga again, and i can stay in balancing asanas for a really long time - i just stare at my own eyes in the mirror and kind of hypnotize myself.

i have no idea how to properly use a comma, and use it incorrectly, but thats just the way that i punctuate!

sometimes i wish i thought more logically and saw things more clearly, but then i would really miss the depth, mystery, intensity and emotion of my world.

KayBug
09-11-2010, 07:07 AM
I have my Sun and Mercury both in Pisces. Mercury in the 3rd and Sun in the 4th house.

ImNotThere9
09-11-2010, 12:08 PM
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byjove
09-11-2010, 12:46 PM
Uh, okay, but you're looking at modern interpretations, not Ancient interpretations. If you want I'd be happy to take a look at your Mercury from an Ancient perspective.

Yes that's true, and in time I'll delve deeper. By any chance, would you start with natives of Mer. in Pis. to consider the traditional Jupiter rulership? Either way, yes, it would be refreshing to investigate the roots, since, from what I can see the modern interpretations on this placement are near-blanket negative.

(quickly tries to hide the evidence of Virgo traits in chart...) It would be great to explore a deeper analysis; if I find another modern cook-book that says these natives are deluded creatures lacking in intelligence, I'll shoot something. :surprised:

I'd sent this by PM but you can't attach, and it would probably be better to dissect here to add to the value of the thread; I find it very useful to understand my own chart better when observing the analysis of other's.

BobZemco
09-11-2010, 02:28 PM
I'd sent this by PM but you can't attach

I know, I rather dislike that. It would be better if one could attach things. Anyway it'll take me a few hours, uh, astrological hours, and if we use our handy "Planetary Table of Estimated Interpretation Time in Years, Months, Days and Hours" it'll probably be a day (or two).

julia
09-11-2010, 04:27 PM
My mercury (retr.) is at my pisces/12th house, :square::neptune: ,:opposition::saturn:,:trine::uranus:.
I must say that since I was a kid I have dreams that come true, I have a strong intuition and I can contact with others through a special way. I am able to understand what they have at their soul, what problems they have etc. There are rare cases when I can not understand them....When I discuss with other persons I catch myself travelling to other worlds, at fairtale landscapes...I wish I had a talent to draw these landscapes but I cannot...I think that this happens because I have a high energy inside me and this helps me to have a relief. It is believed that predicting the future through dreams or intuition is a gift. NO, it is not! And I am sure about this....I never said to any of my friends what they should choose or what they have to do. But I always help them to find their solutions to their problems. Free will is irreplaceable.

sigma
09-11-2010, 04:57 PM
i have :mercury::pisces: in the 7th :trine::jupiter::trine::uranus::square::neptune:, when i look at someone, it's like i can read perfectly their mind and control over the way they think that's why often people can't look in my eyes just because they are afraid to be read, i have done this before and now i don't do this anymore, i try to look at people with some distance in order that people don't feel trapped by my eyes, it's a form of respect.

julia
09-11-2010, 05:37 PM
i have :mercury::pisces: in the 7th :trine::jupiter::trine::uranus::square::neptune:, when i look at someone, it's like i can read perfectly their mind and control over the way they think that's why often people can't look in my eyes just because they are afraid to be read, i have done this before and now i don't do this anymore, i try to look at people with some distance in order that people don't feel trapped by my eyes, it's a form of respect.


I think that eyes are the mirror of someone's soul. This is true. You can see many things at someone's eyes...If you can "read" their eyes, you should not be afraid about this. It is something that you were born with it.

byjove
09-12-2010, 06:20 PM
I know, I rather dislike that. It would be better if one could attach things. Anyway it'll take me a few hours, uh, astrological hours, and if we use our handy "Planetary Table of Estimated Interpretation Time in Years, Months, Days and Hours" it'll probably be a day (or two).

Thanks Bob. I've no idea how to view that placement from a traditional perspective. But I'm sure it'll add to the thread since Merc. in Pisc. natives are coming out of the woodwork in here now! :surprised:

BobZemco
10-08-2010, 10:40 PM
I have searched everywhere I know, and the only thing I can find is a comment by Lily who says this:

Mercury in watry Signes usually without the aspect of one of the Fortunes, shewes an Ideot

In looking at Mercury, it is Peregrine and in Detriment in Pisces, but it is also in the 10th House and Peregrine Moon is applying by opposition. Mercury receives Moon by Exaltation.

Since Virgo is a Commanding Sign holding Moon and Pisces is an Obeying Sign holding Mercury, you might let your emotions over-rule your intellect at times.

Your Part of Reason and Intellect is at 21° Taurus in the 11th House and disposited by Venus in the 9th House in Pisces. It's significators are Mercury and Mars, and we see Mars unaspected in the 11th House and disposited by Mercury, who is disposited by Jupiter in Aries in the 10th House (and disposited by Mars so we have a dispositor loop).

Mercury is also Void of Course. In assessing your intellect (or manners) it must be done in tandem with the Jupiter, who is the Almuten of the Chart (a rank superior than Moon who is merely the Ascendant Ruler) and everyone says that (even Lily way before he gets to the part about Mercury in Pisces is an idiot -- and that assumes Mercury is also the Chart Ruler and/or the Chart Almuten).

We've already seen where Jupiter disposits both Mercury and Venus (who disposits the Part of Reason and Intellect) and rules both the 9th and 10th Houses. I shouldn't have to explain that, as anyone can read your posts and see what would take me a few paragraphs to explain.

Anyway, I don't think we need to rethink Mercury in Pisces, I think we need to follow the rules for proper delineation of one's intellect.

byjove
10-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Yikes! An idiot! Save for the few circumstances which temper the effect such as contact with the benefics, (which are not present) I'm surprised that one-twelfth of us could referred to as so...not good or bad, just different? More or less able to conduct business...

As for orbs, the Moon applying to oppose Mercury at 8+ degrees is counted but the Mars sextiles (5+ degrees) don't? (Throws modern books out)

I still recommend those inundated with hyper-negative interpretations of Mercury to refer to :

http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Planets%20Through%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20Though%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20in%20Pisces.htm

"Mercury is also in its fall in this sign, showing that ultimately criticism and analysis must be dissolved in compassion, thereby making love rather than intellect the guiding principle of life." www.mindire.ca

---Asks Hermione Granger to take a back seat---


So Jupiter is the Almuten? I can't believe it, even following Ptolemy's table as just one source, Jupiter did not come out on top. And to think he could trump the Sun in exaltation and hayz? Alright then, Jove.

BobZemco
10-09-2010, 06:23 PM
As for orbs, the Moon applying to oppose Mercury at 8+ degrees is counted but the Mars sextiles (5+ degrees) don't? (Throws modern books out)

Sure it does. Mars is in an applying sextile to Jupiter and receives Jupiter by Rulership (plus Mars is in the Face of Jupiter).

I still recommend those inundated with hyper-negative interpretations of Mercury to refer to :

"Mercury is also in its fall in this sign, showing that ultimately criticism and analysis must be dissolved in compassion, thereby making love rather than intellect the guiding principle of life."

That might apply to you since Pisces is on the Cusp of the 9th House, but if Pisces was on the Cusp of the 12th House, that interpretation goes right out the window.

So Jupiter is the Almuten? I can't believe it, even following Ptolemy's table as just one source, Jupiter did not come out on top. And to think he could trump the Sun in exaltation and hayz? Alright then, Jove.

Jupiter is also in Hayz. I use ibn Ezra. Jupiter has the greatest dignity in the Ascendant, Part of Fortune, Sun, Moon and prenatal Moon and is in the 10th House. The only thing that would make Jupiter stronger is being the Hour/Day Ruler.

Yennefer
10-09-2010, 09:01 PM
Hi all,

I posted this on the thread on Mercury in water but think I´d repost it here.

---
This is an informative article (transcripted lecture) by Jeff Green who is focusing on evolutionary astrology. This one is about two types of thinking (left and right brain, deductive, inductive, Mercury vs Jupiter).

The link is: http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/school/articles/mercury-and-its-role-in-consciousness

I have Mercury in Pisces in 3rd house and this what Jeff Green says about it (and I find it very accurate):

What if you have Mercury in Pisces ? Let us put it in the third house, the natural Gemini house. If you have Mercury in its natural archetype, i.e., the third house which is linear, sequential, deductive thinking and yet the very essence of Pisces is the antithesis of this archetype, is there not a natural internal conflict within this person's mental process ? Is it not logically seen in this way ? Is not the Mercury in Pisces of itself going to naturally think in metaphorical terms or parables or analogy -- poetic ? Our fellow friend Jesus Of Nazareth had six planets in Pisces in the third house. How did we experience his communication? Still trying to figure it out, eh? Pisces !!!

...It is one of the very reasons that Christians have been confused - Pisces - ever since. It becomes the breeding ground of sectarian points of view. This is the problem with Mercury in Pisces, that the Mercury part of this individual can sense, perceive, much large wholes, much larger frames of reference than the Mercury function itself can logically order. As a result, it must speak in metaphor, parable, allusion; to allude to a something much larger, higher, and grander. This is of course problematic for many people who find themselves in modern societies. How many current modern societies in the West honor such an intellectual function ? What happens to such a person when they are exposed to public education in modern American, Canada, Europe, or European type societies? So typically this particular symbol learns - Mercury - to adopt - mutable archetype - the language systems of the culture that it is exposed to. Therein lies the origin of the conflict.

Claire19
10-29-2010, 09:16 AM
Mercury deals with our perception, thinking processes, learning and cognitive abilities, our sense of hearing in particular. It does not relate to love and other subjects unless connected to Venus for instance. Depending on where in the chart it is posited.

In Pisces if well aspected can give a great imagination, thinks a lot about spirituality and transcendence and can lend a sympathetic ear to those in trouble. Actually a lively imagination regardless but logic can be overcome by fantasy and wishful thinking.

If challenged it can be delusional, paranoid, has criminal thoughts and can lie and deceive with words. Sensitivity to sounds and likes to be introspective, communicate and learns about those less privileged and like to spend time dreaming and being alone is a general analysis. Can be vague and confused with speech and get lost when travelling. Many scenarios.


.

Caro
10-29-2010, 10:23 AM
I have pisces conjunct moon in pisces at about 9 degrees. its in the 4th but with equal house it would on the cusp of the 5th. I say the last part cos I love theatre so much.( I have also got venus /chiron and saturn in pisces - yehhhh!):smile:
I have and always have had a very vivid imagination. Im very sensitive and highly intuitive - I often say stuff without realising (but am becoming aware of that now) how I pick up things in this way and realise Im spot on with the person Im talking too. I too have written poetry - ahhh!
To be honest its not my favourite placing in my chart. It is hard to discipline it but Im doing spiritual stuff now meditation etc and that helps a lot. my dreams are very creative and vivid as is meditation and im much better at expressing myself than I used to be.
It is hard sometimes for me to be direct - I dont have a good mars either. so I would not say Im the best communicator. Although again Im trying to work with this.
I think I went through a period in my 20's where my thinking was muddled and I would say confused. Its a defuse energy mercury in pisces
As others have said it is very useful in the caring professions or in a caring role. Also in spiritual stuff, I can understand many readings /literature but more difficult then to get this information across to someone. It is like I just know/sense/get a feeling that something is right.
I realise I have come under attack by those with negative motives and have to work hard to protect myself in this area.
I think it is a vulnerable particularly again as others have pointed out in our logical scientific society. However the science is catching up.
Was Albert Einstein a mercury in pisces I know he was a late pisces sun?.
I think it works quite well in interpretting astrology though as a plus point.:smile:

Archer7
10-31-2010, 01:57 PM
Was Albert Einstein a mercury in pisces I know he was a late pisces sun?.

No, he had Mercury in Aries. But Charles Darwin, who wrote 'The Origin of Species' had Mercury in Pisces, and so did Abraham Lincoln.

I've worked with about three charts that have Mercury in Pisces. One is an editor, publisher and published Poet, (Moon in Capricorn too), one creates unique didgeridoos and explores the connection between vibration in sound and the body's healing capacities and one I have yet to get to know.

The scientist Richard Dawkins, famous for his book 'The God Delusion' also has Mercury in Pisces.

Caro
11-01-2010, 09:53 AM
I was going to say (dont want to sound like Im blowing my own trumpet) but I was very good at maths at school and took maths exam a year early and went on to do advanced maths. I had a great teacher (always helps very disciplined) She really understood the way I approach maths which is in quite a creative way!!!

RayAustin
11-01-2010, 05:41 PM
While Mercury in Pisces isn't "good", this would be more importantly modified by the placement (angular, succeedent, cadent) and aspects.

Regarding the ancient definitions ... this was a time when public education wasn't to the extent as it was today; we would have to modify it to the times.

eternalautumn
11-01-2010, 08:19 PM
While Mercury in Pisces isn't "good", this would be more importantly modified by the placement (angular, succeedent, cadent) and aspects.

Very true. Also, even though Mercury in Pisces is in detriment and fall, Pisces is still ruled by Jupiter (traditionally), which is a good thing, especially if Jupiter is in good condition and aspects Mercury.

RayAustin
11-01-2010, 08:27 PM
Very true. Also, even though Mercury in Pisces is in detriment and fall, Pisces is still ruled by Jupiter (traditionally) which is a good thing,


It's good, because ignorance is bliss. :lol:

... especially if Jupiter is in good condition and aspects Mercury.
Haha, but I definitely agree. :smile:

Caro
11-03-2010, 10:20 AM
does this placing make learning other languages difficult , as I ve always struggled with speaking other languages.

Arijana
11-03-2010, 10:44 AM
does this placing make learning other languages difficult , as I ve always struggled with speaking other languages.




No. I have Me in Pisces and I can speak several.

Caro
11-03-2010, 11:04 AM
I just looked at your chart . wow a few kite formations there.

maybe it is the way my merc is aspected.

RayAustin
11-03-2010, 03:29 PM
This might sound controversial to some, but I'd be interested in seeing if a badly aspected/placed Mercury in Pisces could indicate autism or some condition of the like. I would be interested in seeing the Mercury/Moon (mind rulers) placements/aspects of those with autism in general.

Phoenix Venus
11-03-2010, 04:29 PM
ive seen a couple of cases of autism and learning disorders with uranus in harsh aspect to mercury or the sun. I've never noticed any correlation with the sign that mercury was in.

i've also seen some with mercury inconjunct moon.

Its interesting because autistic people are usually extremely smart in one or a few specific areas, while they are lacking the understanding of social triggers in order to communicate their ideas in a productive way. this just screams fixed sign mercury to me. not pisces. or even a mercury with little to no aspects.

I think in a natal chart, having mercury in pisces isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think any detriment or fall planets are all considered "bad." To me, det/fall means a different way of expressing this planet which is outside the norm. there can be struggles with it, depending on the person and what else is int he chart, but there is also a fresh approach with this planet and a chance to make changes among society and reestablish values/ what is of importance.

as far as how i interperet mercuyr in the chart, it completely depends on the rest of the chart (houses, aspects, dispositers, etc.)

a general way i look at mercury in pisces is a vast open mind. there is the possibility to explore with much creativity and spiritualism, but also the possibility to get sucked into others thinking habits and not fully grasping concrete facts. (similar to sag, focusing on bigger pictures rather than the details) they are extremely adept at understanding other peoples inner workings and feelings.

I think there has to be more than one indicator of communication problems in the chart for there to be learning difficulties.

byjove
11-04-2010, 11:29 PM
Mercury in Pisces - learning as if by osmosis. I can't tell you how many times I've been desribed exactly like this; by people who don't know anything about astrology, and a few times by educators who said this of me. Anyone else?

And despite my knowing roughly what osmosis is (the process) can anyone decode this, elaborate? :sideways:

Caro
11-05-2010, 10:08 AM
osmosis - you absorb information thro your skin!!!!! (plants absorb nutrients in this way) its like heightened intiution.
down side you can soak up negativity .
ive been described that I am like a sponge. have to do lots of protection - I use crystals for that now.

byjove
11-05-2010, 10:23 AM
You see, I'm trying to imagine how we differ from others in that regard. Especially from the perspective of educators who get to understand our minds a little and exactly what they see. If I find this out, I can tap into better ways of learning, and avoiding pitfalls.

Yeah, a professor was the last to say this, and she mentioned something about my absorbing things just sitting there (doesn't everyone?!) she also said some things just go in and some things just don't.

Caro
11-05-2010, 11:01 AM
no not everyone at all.
a virgo in mercury would not absorb anything in my experience- they learn by practical application and method.They pratice practice and practice
as a pisces in mercury - you can learn by experience - by putting yourself in situations you can quickly pick up how people act. Ie you can walk into a room and run a committee say and resolve differences cos you quickly pick up what is underlying what people are saying. the fluid nature of mercury allows you to negociate/understand and respond in a receptive manner. again I cant see a merc in virgo doing this - they get stuck(im just using this as an example and its a general statement people)
you do need to protect yourself and make sure you are grounded - very important.

I would agree that it has a lot of potential creatively, spiritually, in the caring professions /community work etc.etc.

JerryRR
11-07-2010, 09:01 AM
Abraham Lincoln has Mercury in Pisces,1st House.
Mercury 10Pi19,Sabian Symbol,'Men seeking illumination.'

Me con Pluto.
Me sq Sa/Ne.
Me tr Ur/NN.

45 Midpoints.
Me= Ne/Pl, Pl/MH,Mo/Ma.
Ne= Me/Sa.
Sa/Ur=Me/Ve.
Mo=Me/Pl.

90 Midpoints.
Me/Ma=Mo/Ma.

Lilly Strength, Mercury -5.

J. :)

byjove
11-07-2010, 10:58 AM
Nice illustration Jerry, nice indeed! :joyful:

RayAustin
11-07-2010, 03:12 PM
Abraham Lincoln has Mercury in Pisces,1st House.
Mercury 10Pi19,Sabian Symbol,'Men seeking illumination.'

Me con Pluto.
Me sq Sa/Ne.
Me tr Ur/NN.

45 Midpoints.
Me= Ne/Pl, Pl/MH,Mo/Ma.
Ne= Me/Sa.
Sa/Ur=Me/Ve.
Mo=Me/Pl.

90 Midpoints.
Me/Ma=Mo/Ma.

Lilly Strength, Mercury -5.

J. :)


Jerry,
First of all an angular Mercury always inclines to intelligence, especially the first house. It is said traditionally that the 'joy' of Mercury is to be in the first house where it can easily express its influence.

Secondly, Mercury trines Uranus in his chart which inclines to mental brilliance. There's also a Mercury/Pluto conjunction which intensifies his intellect and intensifies the Mercury/Uranus aspect.

It's more than 'dignity' points which are most useful in horary/electional astrology, not natal. The aspects (and placement) are more important than planetary strength because they can 'save' a planet.

Also consider that he's an Aquarius ascendant (inclined to be intelligent), and his ascendant ruler Saturn is in the 9th house of higher learning/knowledge. It was a life focus for him.

What our astrologer elders :smile: say about Mercury in Pisces are generalizations. They would consider the whole chart as well before making an assumption.

r.a. :smile:

RayAustin
11-07-2010, 03:39 PM
osmosis - you absorb information thro your skin!!!!! (plants absorb nutrients in this way) its like heightened intiution.
down side you can soak up negativity .
ive been described that I am like a sponge. have to do lots of protection - I use crystals for that now.


The downside is that you can be "too open". Ready to absorb anything and everything if the person has too much water in their chart; this could make them prey to people who feed on the gullible.

I think a debilitated Merc/Pisces with bad aspects from the 9th house ruler (and involving neptune) could show those attracted to cult religion thinking. It's not just Mercury, could be Sun in Pisces .. etc or not even Pisces. But Mercury as we know is the closest ruler of the mind, and Pisces associated religion, so that's why it's exampled.

r.a. :smile:

pudinnpop
11-07-2010, 04:09 PM
I have natal merc in pisces and let me tell u,it can be downright confusing at times.I "feel" my way thro stuff at times without any real concrete logic and or evidence,but i just "know" Right no my SR has neptune in the 3rd and im going thro traniting neptune square neptune that lovely generational transit!!:crying:SO needless to say ,my merc isnt functioning that great,i find my short term memory is a mess and learning anything new is just a waste of time!!! I forget it as soon as i learn it.Im finding myself re-learning things ive already have learned and even those things i keep forgetting.It is very very Frausrtating to say the least!!Especially doing astrology.I forget what certain aspects mean etc etc and have to go and dbl check everything!! UGH..So merc in pisces is hard enuff,but when the ruler is Hooped its even harder!!

LittleMiss
11-07-2010, 04:16 PM
I very much agree with RayAustin on good and bad affects of Mercury in Pisces.
I have Mercury in Pisces in 6th house, I think Mercury does well when it's in the Virgo house.

But I also recognize the part of beeing too open. I take in other peoples moods and feelings, and are seldom able to differenciate what is mine and what is others. Because of this I need alot of time to myself, to rid myself from other energys literally. That is okey now, that I know why and are an adult, but growing up and not knowing why was difficult.

I consider myself intelligent. I have a strong mind and belive I can learn anything I set my mind to. (Mercury Trine pluto). But I'm not at all practical. I struggle with numbers, and I associate everything according to feelings. I have a hard time remembering details...especially if I think they are boring. I'm good with language, words and music, that comes natural to me. I also really loved history in school, in that class I could picture things in my head, hear the sound and smell the smells from foreign times almost.

It is much, much more to say about this placements, this was just a few points.

I very much agree with the idea that a planet in its fall isn't "bad" or not working, it just works differently.

pudinnpop
11-07-2010, 04:21 PM
Totally agreeing with the whole forgetting of detail thing miss,lol!!!
My merc is in the 9th house so in sagges house!! I am intelligent as well but get murky with the more "techincal" side of things.I sucked at math but was awesome in biology sciences and of the like!!

RayAustin
11-07-2010, 04:32 PM
I have natal merc in pisces and let me tell u,it can be downright confusing at times.

Puddin, link me to your chart I want to see what could show your difficulties.

RayAustin
11-07-2010, 04:33 PM
I very much agree with the idea that a planet in its fall isn't "bad" or not working, it just works differently.

It works against its nature and the native has to compensate for it.

JerryRR
11-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Thank you Byjove.

Lincoln's Draco Sun/Asc con US r Sun.His Draco Me/Pl con US NN.
US Draco Sun and Mercury in Pisces.
The battle at Fort Sumter Me/Ne in Pisces.

J. :)

LittleMiss
11-07-2010, 07:23 PM
I have natal merc in pisces and let me tell u,it can be downright confusing at times.I "feel" my way thro stuff at times without any real concrete logic and or evidence,but i just "know" Right no my SR has neptune in the 3rd and im going thro traniting neptune square neptune that lovely generational transit!!:crying:SO needless to say ,my merc isnt functioning that great,i find my short term memory is a mess and learning anything new is just a waste of time!!! I forget it as soon as i learn it.Im finding myself re-learning things ive already have learned and even those things i keep forgetting.It is very very Frausrtating to say the least!!Especially doing astrology.I forget what certain aspects mean etc etc and have to go and dbl check everything!! UGH..So merc in pisces is hard enuff,but when the ruler is Hooped its even harder!!

I have a mixture of the detail-thing. I learn quickly, but forget details that doesn't mean "that much" to me. But I remember details that I've felt something about. I don't have problems with something I'm pasionate about.
It is here I think my 6th house placement helps my Mercury, beacause my mind like to organize. I categorize a lot, makes list, and to learn something really well I have to write things down.

byjove
11-07-2010, 07:42 PM
Hey Pudin! I've my Mercury in the 9th of Pisces too! (very end of house, but if you're in the 'foot in both' camps...)

Could it get any more fragmented?! 9th and Pisces!

What aspects do people have to help/not help their Pisces Mercs.?

pudinnpop
11-07-2010, 07:58 PM
well i got merc sextile to saturn.I guess i have the opportunity to focus my thoughts more,but id have to put an effort into it...When its something im intrested in,i can grasp it a bit more..

RayAustin
11-07-2010, 09:23 PM
Hi Puddin,
well i got merc sextile to saturn.I guess i have the opportunity to focus my thoughts more,but id have to put an effort into it...When its something im intrested in,i can grasp it a bit more..


Yes, Saturn is going to help you out a bit. That gives you patience to "figure things out" and should strengthen your memory (Saturn rules memory) and sense of mental organization -- but it's a sextile, a weak one at that (there's no relation between Sat/Merc) so as you say, something you have to work at but a gift nonetheless.

According to astro.com you have Mercury square Jupiter, sextile Saturn, quincunx Herschel/Uranus, and square Neptune (though the orb is laughable) and a conjunction to the Sun. Most of them are difficult aspects.

1) The most difficult is going to be the Merc/Sun conjunction since this is combustion and weakens Mercury and makes it even harder to see the details because of the Pisces influence and nature of combustion.

2) The quincunx is another difficult aspect because Herschel is going to upset the constancy of your mind, theoretically (I'm not a quincunx type of astrologer though, just putting it out there).

3) I think the Merc/Jupiter square with Jupiter conjunct Neptune would give you an overabundance of ideas that might take time to figure out.

Let me know. :happy:

Mercury happens to rule your 3rd&12th; did this also effect you in early learning? Kindergarten-middle school. Either way Mercury is in the 9th so it would definitely affect you in college&etc.


r.a. :wink:

pudinnpop
11-07-2010, 09:48 PM
wow thats right on...No i was smart in school,but i do tend to get a million ideas at once and get dreamy about them ,but then i quicky forget about them as fast,lol!!!

JerryRR
11-11-2010, 04:35 PM
Josef Mengele,(The Angel of Death),has Mercury in Pisces,con MC.
Sabian Symbol:A little white lamb,a child,and a Chinese Servant.

Sun con Mercury,Mercury 30 Venus,tr Ju,45 Sa,tr Ne,sq Pl.

45 Midpoints.
MO/SA=ME/SA ME/MA.
ME=NN/MA JU/UR.
MA=ME/MC.
ASC/SA=ME/MA ME/SA.

90 Midpoints.
ASC=ME/SA.
MO=ME/SA.

Lilly Strength. -10.

Nazi Party,Mercury in Pisces.

J. :)

Frank
11-11-2010, 05:17 PM
My research into those with Mensa-level intelligence shows Mercury in Pisces as the most significant Mercury placement when compared against a control group.

Frank
11-12-2010, 11:06 AM
Significant in what way Frank?

Numerically. See my post here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146912&postcount=110

piscesnurse
11-12-2010, 11:34 AM
thanks frank u made my day i have mercury in pisces and moon in aquarius :]

Dew9
11-12-2010, 04:06 PM
That is pretty interesting.

I have Mercury in Pisces in cazimi with my sun in Pisces. :love:

And yes both in 2nd House. :love:

Saturn and Mars both in Scorpio in 10 trine with that Mercury, so I guess that holds me back into practicality whenever I slide in the usual imaginative and dreamy mode. Yes, I offer see right through someone else's motive by intuition making me understand them better even if sometimes I do not understand how I managed to understand and deal with them!

I confess I am a published poet and writer at a very young age and it was all accidental.


Was Albert Einstein a mercury in pisces I know he was a late pisces sun?.

No, he had Mercury in Aries. But Charles Darwin, who wrote 'The Origin of Species' had Mercury in Pisces, and so did Abraham Lincoln.

I've worked with about three charts that have Mercury in Pisces. One is an editor, publisher and published Poet, (Moon in Capricorn too), one creates unique didgeridoos and explores the connection between vibration in sound and the body's healing capacities and one I have yet to get to know.

The scientist Richard Dawkins, famous for his book 'The God Delusion' also has Mercury in Pisces.

LittleMiss
11-12-2010, 08:24 PM
thanks frank u made my day i have mercury in pisces and moon in aquarius :]

I just have to agree with this, because so do I!! :smile:

(I also have Sun at 10 degrees Pisces by the way!)

venus in scorpio 1987
11-16-2010, 10:36 AM
what about mercury exact conjuction with neptune in capricorn? also exact inconjuction with asc in cancer!
I't hard to concentrate, I like my mind to be free without restrictions. Dreaming with eyes open is ok but I know for sure what is reality and what is not and When I chose to ''dream'' it'a a conscious choice. (capricorn saves the situation. If this conj was in a water sign, things would be very difficult for me).

byjove
11-16-2010, 11:56 AM
Very interesting!

I've my Mercury in Pisces conjunct MC (exact) trine Cancer AC (exact) but you and I are birds of a feather there I think...

P.s. I wonder does the Mercury affect on physical appearance shrink things; I've pretty small ears, and small for a guy! Actually, generally small facial features! :tongue:

venus in scorpio 1987
11-16-2010, 12:34 PM
Hi byjove. Are you an artist? At least do you have artistic hobbies?
what do you mean with ''we are birds of a feather'' ? sorry for my poor english...

I have small - normal facial features, but not anything extraordinary in my appearence.

byjove
11-16-2010, 06:13 PM
Hi!

Nope not an artist; with a 9th Pisces Venus I have to say I do enjoy art immensely (I fell in love with the art in the Vatican, and now I'm living in Italy speaking Italian...) I don't have any known artistic ability or intentions; maybe that song hasn't even started yet...instead I'm more of a political animal.

Birds of a feather; English expression of similarity between a few individuals.

:tongue:

Claire19
11-26-2010, 10:24 PM
Yes that's true, and in time I'll delve deeper. By any chance, would you start with natives of Mer. in Pis. to consider the traditional Jupiter rulership? Either way, yes, it would be refreshing to investigate the roots, since, from what I can see the modern interpretations on this placement are near-blanket negative.

(quickly tries to hide the evidence of Virgo traits in chart...) It would be great to explore a deeper analysis; if I find another modern cook-book that says these natives are deluded creatures lacking in intelligence, I'll shoot something. :surprised:

I'd sent this by PM but you can't attach, and it would probably be better to dissect here to add to the value of the thread; I find it very useful to understand my own chart better when observing the analysis of other's.
Well, every planet has to be judged by its individual aspects, good and bad.
I dont adhere to the narrow ancient interpretations which tend to be negative. Astrology is a modern science and always evolving as we become more aware and Uranus rules it and is essentially future and forward thinking. Later discovered planets are the rulers and the ancient ones may co rule but that is all....

Claire19
11-26-2010, 10:27 PM
My research into those with Mensa-level intelligence shows Mercury in Pisces as the most significant Mercury placement when compared against a control group.
Interesting.....I guess it is the imaginative component and perhaps thinking outside the square......or using intuition.......:biggrin:

Caro
11-29-2010, 08:06 PM
Olivia

I disagree. since the 80's the ecumenical movement has brought together a number of different churches. mainly under the christian umbrella ( of which I believe there at least 200000 types of christianity currently). Also lost of grass roots movements work to create harmony and show comparisions across religions - this certainly happens in israel.

many of the current church leaders talk about similarities between churche and are trying to build bridges. the pope's visit to Uk, he met the Queen and visited an anglican church. it is drawing on these similarities at this highest level that will hopefully stop the tribal mentality.

I think mercury in pisces is a high vibration and when I read your post about 'wet' I thought of the ocean and whales and dolphins communicating across 1000 s of miles of ocean. only heard by those who can listen into that frequency

if people continue to focus on the differences in these religiious tribe / this root energy then what hope for peace. you have to raise the vibration to the throat chakra for diplomacy to take place and this is where I was coming from in my post.

halloween - a pagan festival same time of year as Diwali, and all saints day in christian churches. the lifting of the veil of isis when we think/remember our dead. all pretty similar and there are many more.

it does not mean that you homegonise the world. you just realise the fundamental similarities.

Caroline Myss in her books compares the Hindu - charkra system with the Jewish tree of life and the christian sacrements . there are lots of similarities. Anatomy of the spirit.

I hope that has briefly explained my shorter previous post.

RayAustin
12-01-2010, 02:47 PM
RA - I disagree with you here. As a predominant water chart - I would keep a 50 mile radius of organised religion. Although Im interested in looking at spiritual beliefs (they are all the same fundamentally) Also of my peers (born 1967) all pisces sun (with merc in pisces)but with the similar generational predominance of water - they all share my view.

Maybe cos we all share the uranus/pluto opp saturn.
As you say its about taking a look at the whole chart rather than one aspect.


What did I write that you disagree with?

byjove
12-18-2011, 02:59 AM
no not everyone at all.
a virgo in mercury would not absorb anything in my experience- they learn by practical application and method.They pratice practice and practice
as a pisces in mercury - you can learn by experience - by putting yourself in situations you can quickly pick up how people act. Ie you can walk into a room and run a committee say and resolve differences cos you quickly pick up what is underlying what people are saying. the fluid nature of mercury allows you to negociate/understand and respond in a receptive manner. again I cant see a merc in virgo doing this - they get stuck(im just using this as an example and its a general statement people)
you do need to protect yourself and make sure you are grounded - very important.

I would agree that it has a lot of potential creatively, spiritually, in the caring professions /community work etc.etc.


I would love to sit down with some M in Virgos and watch.....can we do some of this on here?! I'm so curious! I understand each word and sentence above, but I don't understand the limits between how we think and they do. I just don't see the divide.

Yes I'm starting to understand the need to watch atmospheres - I've Cancer rising too.

Culpeper
12-18-2011, 06:24 AM
In theory Mercury would rule the native's intelligence only if Mercury ruled the ascendant. If Taurus is rising and Venus is alright then the native will be very bright even if Mercury is a mess.

However, I have Mercury in Pisces and also have Gemini rising and should be an idiot. Perhaps some people do think that I am just that since I am a student of Latin, Greek and mathematics that they cannot grasp. Oh yes, and I learned to speak Japanese in Japan. And then there is that awful astrology: I must be going to hell for that.

Perhaps Mercury in Pisces creates certain perceptions in others. It does not seem to hinder intelligence.

Caro
12-18-2011, 07:39 AM
Culpepper I agree. It doesnt. Also it depends how intelligence is measured.

but I am no good at languages - I think i could learn when I live abroad but I can not sit in a classroom an learn.

byjove - maybe start a new thread.

byjove
12-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Well I set up this thread to explore Mercury in a modern light and also to reflect on historical consideration, anything I can do here I'd like to, I don't want too many threads on the same area. I'm writing on about 4 Mercury and intelligence threads this very moment...

Culp - Gemini rising with Mercury in Pisces, how interesting! Why house? You know I got the impression years ago that just because we don't understand someone, it doesn't mean they're not intelligent/talented, rather their talents are different. Now I see this in the M in Pisces light...

Frank
12-18-2011, 06:37 PM
Some things to consider when you have Mercury in Pisces:

- No matter how explicitly you state something, most people will either not understand or misinterpret what you say.

- You will be talked over. People will constantly interrupt you when you are trying to make a point and your point will be lost or disregarded.

- Some people will not understand when you are joking.

- People will think that when you express a opinion that you are insulting them because your opinion differs from theirs.

- People will miss something that you said or wrote and you'll have to repeat yourself constantly.

- Drunk, high or otherwise impaired people will insist on talking to you - no matter how much you try to ignore them.

All I can say as a person who has Mercury in Pisces is that I'm truly happy that I have a strong Saturn conjunct my ascendant and a dignified Mars - or I'd be leaving a trail of bodies behind me all the time. :tongue:

Caro
12-18-2011, 07:49 PM
BJ - just realised - you are the one that has been told in the past to set up another thread ! Sorry bout that.

I just thought a thread titled - mercury in pisces seeks mercury in virgo might be more beneficial(be careful merc in v is under mars attack right now!!Tread or should I say Thread carefully :unsure:)

yes I see there are a couple of subjects on this at the moment! Not very neat and tidy is it!

Frank - I nod my head at the first two bullet points.and some of the others I used to but I got wise. In a crisis people always come to me for the wise words!

a while ago someone posted about the vibration of how we communicate those who excel in merc in pisces dont get heard cos the frequency gets lost in a world where those who are just working on the base level.(like having planets in 12th house and not appreciating their value)

I will post a link that I saw the other day about where mercury comes in your chart. it was quite interesting.

here you go - you may have already seen it - http://www.khaldea.com/planets/merc_type.shtml

Frank
12-18-2011, 08:32 PM
BJ - just realised - you are the one that has been told in the past to set up another thread ! Sorry bout that.

I just thought a thread titled - mercury in pisces seeks mercury in virgo might be more beneficial(be careful merc in v is under mars attack right now!!Tread or should I say Thread carefully :unsure:)

yes I see there are a couple of subjects on this at the moment! Not very neat and tidy is it!

Frank - I nod my head at the first two bullet points.and some of the others I used to but I got wise. In a crisis people always come to me for the wise words!

a while ago someone posted about the vibration of how we communicate those who excel in merc in pisces dont get heard cos the frequency gets lost in a world where those who are just working on the base level.(like having planets in 12th house and not appreciating their value)

I will post a link that I saw the other day about where mercury comes in your chart. it was quite interesting.

here you go - you may have already seen it - http://www.khaldea.com/planets/merc_type.shtml

I've mostly overcome it myself, due to other factors in my chart. There are some people who still don't get that I'm joking even when I say, "This is a joke" prior to telling it. It's the "not hearing what I said" syndrome referenced above.

byjove
12-18-2011, 09:18 PM
Frank, your points on M in Pisces made me laugh! What a struggle for us! lol Also, Saturn on AC, that's the same as the Iron Lady, isn't it?! I think the point about people over-talking us, I was thinking, perhaps that's partially related to our patient minds and also because of the Mercury connection to the voice?

Caro, no problem, I was very confused at first!!

Can I recommend M in Pisces reading? This is the single most powerful description of M in Pisces I've read to date. It's more comprehensive by far than almost all other descriptions combined. OK that's a lot of expectation, here's the link! :andy:

http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Planets%20Through%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20Though%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20in%20Pisces.htm

Caro
12-19-2011, 07:29 AM
talking is so 20th century......

telepathy is the way to go. :biggrin:

dersette
02-17-2012, 04:31 PM
All I can say as a person who has Mercury in Pisces is that I'm truly happy that I have a strong Saturn conjunct my ascendant and a dignified Mars - or I'd be leaving a trail of bodies behind me all the time. :tongue:

:biggrin:
You are just joking, right? :tongue:

With Pisces Mercury I learn and think rapidly, but somewhat inconsistent. I can easily memorize lots of information, but I do not have enough patience to sit and learn, or maybe just a lack of concentration. For example, when I learn chemistry, somehow I end up on philosophy(or vice versa), thinking about how to apply natural principles to general life principles (like human relations or something else). I do not think so widely, but numerous associations(little flash of pictures) distract my attention.
Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by this and need an occasional breaks from thinking at all. :pinched: :lol: I have to feed those two fishes with silence, or they`ll swim away from my head.

Mercury is in 1st house:
conjunct Sun
oppose Moon
square Mars
inconjunct Jupiter
sextile Uranus.

bad, right? :andy:
but...

Dispositor of Mercury is Neptune in Capricorn(12th):
conjunct Ascendant
conjunct Uranus(also 12th)
sextile pluto(9th-close to Mc)

Ascendant is in Capricorn, Saturn in Aquarius conjuncts Ac and true node, oppose Jupiter.
(Saturn and Uranus-replacement of rulers)

3rd house in Aries, Mars in Gemini 5th.

Claire19
02-20-2012, 04:55 AM
Was Albert Einstein a mercury in pisces I know he was a late pisces sun?.

No, he had Mercury in Aries. But Charles Darwin, who wrote 'The Origin of Species' had Mercury in Pisces, and so did Abraham Lincoln.

I've worked with about three charts that have Mercury in Pisces. One is an editor, publisher and published Poet, (Moon in Capricorn too), one creates unique didgeridoos and explores the connection between vibration in sound and the body's healing capacities and one I have yet to get to know.

The scientist Richard Dawkins, famous for his book 'The God Delusion' also has Mercury in Pisces.



It will be different for everyone based on their overall chart, the aspects to Mercury in Pisces and where it is in the chart. Once again the danger of citing just one placement out of context, gives no accurate information.

JUPITERASC
02-20-2012, 05:28 AM
Was Albert Einstein a mercury in Pisces I know he was a late Pisces sun?.

No, he had Mercury in Aries .
FWIW - Albert Einstein was Sidereal Pisces Mercury AND simultaneously Tropical Aries Mercury! :smile:

CapAquaPis
02-20-2012, 08:12 AM
The presence of Mercury in Pisces/9th house affects me greatly, to leave me quite intelligent and highly skilled in some talents like science, history & an ability to excel in jobs I may not be suited for, but could handle its high paced work: typical or classically attributed to the planet Mercury and the sign of Pisces.

At the same time, like the geniuses mentioned in this thread to had Mercury in Pisces: they struggled with affected emotional, mental or psychiatric symptoms of autism or ASD (autistic spectrum disorders) and I happen to be diagnosed autistic since I was like 6 years old. :crying:

Honestly, I shouldn't feel bad about autism and impairment in social skills, because I was born with something to had me gifted and I shouldn't let it go to waste. We all have hobbies and interests to inspire us in good careers, just like Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin and Abraham Lincoln with Mercury in Pisces on their natal charts.

SniperBomber328
02-20-2012, 09:12 PM
Thought I should just throw this out there, and all, dunno if this has been mentoned before. But wasn't the smartest man alive right a Pisces with Mercury in Pisces? Forgot his name, it was some korean guy.

His IQ was something like 210, and was escorted to NASA when he was 6 or 7, I forget. He also solved a calculus problem at age 6.

The description above sounds more mercury in gemini or virgo, but no, it's in pisces. Now if anyone could bother to bring up his name...

Ion
02-20-2012, 10:52 PM
Mercury in Pisces is also (frequently) 'psychic' and can learn by 'osmosis'. . . perhaps this is determined by house-placement.

best regards,
Ion

JUPITERASC
02-20-2012, 11:02 PM
Sir Andrew Wiles IQ 170 has Pisces Mercury :smile:

Going home from school aged 10, Wiles read Fermat's Last Theorem at his local library and decided to be first to prove it. 1986 he heard Ribet (by proving Serre's ε-conjecture) had established link between Fermat's Last Theorem and Taniyama-Shimura conjecture – based on success of Gerhard Frey, Jean-Pierre Serre and Ken Ribet - Wiles in 1993 presented proof publicly at Cambridge conference: but discovered August 1993 that proof was incomplete and he'd made fundamental errors. Wiles claimed he realised a solution on 19 September 1994 – then with former student Richard Taylor, he published a second paper circumventing the gap and completed the proof.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles%27s_proof_of_Fermat%27s_Last_Theorem

byjove
12-24-2012, 11:46 PM
Two years later and my "will add more soon" has been finished! I've updated my proposition in my first post. I particularly refer to common misunderstandings with this native position and also approach in education and also talents.

Critical point: have many of the misunderstandings with this position come with the modern ruler Neptune? Does traditional astrology hold this position as so unfortunate? (using the greater benific as the M in P ruler).

byjove
12-24-2012, 11:48 PM
Sir Andrew Wiles IQ 170 has Pisces Mercury :smile:

Going home from school aged 10, Wiles read Fermat's Last Theorem at his local library and decided to be first to prove it. 1986 he heard Ribet (by proving Serre's ε-conjecture) had established link between Fermat's Last Theorem and Taniyama-Shimura conjecture – based on success of Gerhard Frey, Jean-Pierre Serre and Ken Ribet - Wiles in 1993 presented proof publicly at Cambridge conference: but discovered August 1993 that proof was incomplete and he'd made fundamental errors. Wiles claimed he realised a solution on 19 September 1994 – then with former student Richard Taylor, he published a second paper circumventing the gap and completed the proof.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles%27s_proof_of_Fermat%27s_Last_Theorem





That sounds like precisely the kind of mistakes that I make too. This is exactly why I keep away from accounting and even maths. Teachers/professors always said it - I clearly knew what to do, I understood, but I could become distracted or my mind could wander a little then the mistakes happen.

JUPITERASC
12-25-2012, 12:53 AM
Sir Andrew Wiles IQ 170 has Pisces Mercury
......Wiles claimed he realised a solution on 19 September 1994 – then with former student Richard Taylor, he published a second paper circumventing the gap and completed the proof.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles%27s_proof_of_Fermat%27s_Last_Theorem

Remember though that the proof was completed!
That sounds like precisely the kind of mistakes that I make too. This is exactly why I keep away from accounting and even maths. Teachers/professors always said it - I clearly knew what to do, I understood, but I could become distracted or my mind could wander a little then the mistakes happen.
Einstein - another Pisces Mercury - failed his University Entrance Exam :smile:

"....In 1895, at the age of 17, Albert Einstein applied for early admission into the Swiss Federal Polytechnical School (Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule or ETH).

Einstein passed the math and science sections of the entrance exam, but failed the rest (history, languages, geography, etc.)! Einstein had to go to a trade school before he retook the exam and was finally admitted to ETH a year later. (Source (http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1115185.htm))....."

byjove
12-31-2012, 05:58 PM
Thanks for the insights Jupiter, each of those pieces have a part to play in a refresh of approach to this natal position I think. Any pieces like that which cast away the unwarranted negativity is needed I think.

Another thing for M in P natives to think about is dignity. Mutual receptions, angles and a lesser known one is a planet in detriment accompanied by a planet in the same sign and of it's exaltation, is recovered significantly I believe. One of the other simpler notions of help is of course 'beneficial' aspects, not just trines and sextiles but even contact with malefics could help - consider a sturdy Mercury/Saturn square to ground that M in P, or Uranus square to speed up the mind, a sextile with Venus could be charming or with the Sun or Mars would immediately aid communicative abilities.

7401Rizey
12-31-2012, 06:17 PM
Doesn't Einstein have a mercury in aries? I know somebody mentioned that he has a Mercury in pisces in sidereal astrology.

If some of the greatest minds have mercury in pisces, then pisces being in detriment in mercury seems like not a big deal.

JUPITERASC
12-31-2012, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the insights Jupiter, each of those pieces have a part to play in a refresh of approach to this natal position I think. Any pieces like that which cast away the unwarranted negativity is needed I think.

Another thing for M in P natives to think about is dignity. Mutual receptions, angles and a lesser known one is a planet in detriment accompanied by a planet in the same sign and of it's exaltation, is recovered significantly I believe. One of the other simpler notions of help is of course 'beneficial' aspects, not just trines and sextiles but even contact with malefics could help - consider a sturdy Mercury/Saturn square to ground that M in P, or Uranus square to speed up the mind, a sextile with Venus could be charming or with the Sun or Mars would immediately aid communicative abilities.
byjove - correction - Albert Einstein's Mercury is SIDEREAL PISCES and TROPICAL ARIES!! :smile:

re: detriment and other debilities/dignities, this table from skyscript lists them all

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/im/dig_sm.gif

btw - fixed star aspects to natal Mercury could bring important additional insights

Robson (The Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology (http://www.amazon.com/Fixed-Constellations-Astrology-Vivian-Robson/dp/0766142280)) says:

"The fixed stars operate by position and are said to 'cast no rays' or, in other words, their aspects are said to be ineffective and their influence to be exerted only by conjunction and parallel" http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Stars_in_longitude_order.htm

byjove
12-31-2012, 06:22 PM
Doesn't Einstein have a mercury in aries? I know somebody mentioned that he has a Mercury in pisces in sidereal astrology.

If some of the greatest minds have mercury in pisces, then pisces being in detriment in mercury seems like not a big deal.

I completely agree. This is what I don't understand - when do you hear a native with the Sun or Mars in Libra having to automatically justify their general capabilities, just for some basic respect? Therefore, I don't understand the negativity lobbied on these natives.

One doesn't have to go far, take a peak at almost any thread on Mercury in Pisces here and it's littered with other natives laughing at how 'misguided and foggy' natives are, it's really sad.

JUPITERASC
12-31-2012, 06:28 PM
I completely agree. This is what I don't understand - when do you hear a native with the Sun or Mars in Libra having to automatically justify their general capabilities, just for some basic respect? Therefore, I don't understand the negativity lobbied on these natives.

One doesn't have to go far, take a peak at almost any thread on Mercury in Pisces here and it's littered with other natives laughing at how 'misguided and foggy' natives are, it's really sad.
Abraham Lincoln - Mercury - Tropical Pisces

http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c0fbfilePflx80-u1333138667/astro_2atw_01_abraham_lincoln.69962.26781.gif?2773 9

7401Rizey
12-31-2012, 06:30 PM
I completely agree. This is what I don't understand - when do you hear a native with the Sun or Mars in Libra having to automatically justify their general capabilities, just for some basic respect? Therefore, I don't understand the negativity lobbied on these natives.

One doesn't have to go far, take a peak at almost any thread on Mercury in Pisces here and it's littered with other natives laughing at how 'misguided and foggy' natives are, it's really sad.

well, In astrology having such signs in certain planets, isn't necessarily bad, but it's not good either, I guess it gives off a weaker expression than if a sign in planet and that sign becomes exalted. The exalted position for a sign doesn't mean it's better than other signs, it's in a better position, but it's expressed differently.

But i understand what you're saying, because there's sun in libra people that do fine without needing a partnership... as well as people with Merc in Pisces that are intelligence and are quick as a merc in gemini

but i think that it all depends on the aspects attached to Mercury and the house that it's in, that really makes all the difference.

7401Rizey
12-31-2012, 06:37 PM
Abraham Lincoln - Mercury - Tropical Pisces

http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c0fbfilePflx80-u1333138667/astro_2atw_01_abraham_lincoln.69962.26781.gif?2773 9

Wow, Abraham has 5 signs in detriment and he became the first president of United States...

The sun in Aqua makes sense, since he was apart of a collective, that served the detriment for his sun sign...

So... If somebody that influential has so many signs in detriment then any of us has like 2 or 3 signs in detriment doesn't have to worry,

since signs in detriment shouldn't be regarded as much trouble..

Have you came across chart that has no signs in detriment? s

JUPITERASC
12-31-2012, 06:46 PM
Wow, Abraham has 5 signs in detriment and he became the first president of United States...

Abraham Lincoln Sidereal Whole Sign Natal not so detrimental! :smile:

http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c0fbfilePflx80-u1333138667/astro_2a_03_abraham_lincoln_whole_sign_houses_hw.7 0878.27237.gif?4438

tsmall
12-31-2012, 08:53 PM
If you read the wiki notes, the chart posted has a "B" rating based on a midwife's recollection of a birth time of "about sunrise." However, two astrologers independently and in different years rectified the chart to 8:36 am. Here is the rectified chart in whole signs.

Either way, notice that Mercury is in Pisces, but so is Jupiter? This supports Mercury to some extent. Further, I don't think that Mercury in Pisces means can't think, so much as the thinking may tend to appear less organized to those on the outside looking in. Intuition plays a large part. This is a day chart, so the heat of the Sun will help with organization of thought.

Detriment, or any form of debility, is more a statement of how those planets will be able to affect the affairs of the houses they rule. Mercury in the rectified chart rules the 3rd (lower education, for one, and didn't Lincoln get no formal schooling in youth?) as well as the 6th house of illness. My understanding is that he suffered from extreme migraine, though I could be misremembering.

Another interesting thing in the rectified chart (off topic, by hey :biggrin:) is that Mars, the out of sect malefic, is in the 7th house of open enemies and rules the 8th. Paulus says of Mars in the 7th "...those who are short lived or die a violent death...)

JUPITERASC
12-31-2012, 09:22 PM
If you read the wiki notes, the chart posted has a "B" rating based on a midwife's recollection of a birth time of "about sunrise." However, two astrologers independently and in different years rectified the chart to 8:36 am. Here is the rectified chart in whole signs.....
This chart is a great example of the importance of certainty regarding time of birth because the difference between a day chart and a night chart could be crucial in this case

- 'about sunrise' is not sufficiently accurate a description with which to provide reliable data

- Sidereally, Abraham is possibly a Capricorn ascendant :smile:

Claire19
12-31-2012, 10:59 PM
I was going to say (dont want to sound like Im blowing my own trumpet) but I was very good at maths at school and took maths exam a year early and went on to do advanced maths. I had a great teacher (always helps very disciplined) She really understood the way I approach maths which is in quite a creative way!!!
You had probably a contact with Saturn if you were logical in that way.
You can be creative with numbers for instance and envisage colours or other ways of making it less dry.

byjove
01-01-2013, 05:05 PM
That gives me an idea, if we are to remove some of the ungrounded negative attachments, it might be an idea to accept what is difficult. Focus - and attention are exactly two things which I personally could attest to. I once read that this native needs to focus carefully on a task at hand in order to do it properly and also not to injure oneself, if it's such a task. I totally agree. I sometimes pull back my mind from expanding like a mist.

Another curious reference to this placement that I've read is being the unsuspecting victim in others' plans, as if we have trouble telling friend from foe. My dad also has Mercury in Pisces, and I note that we both are naturally set to see the best in people. We certainly can ignore the more unpleasant characteristics. That again - needs attention I think.

Can anyone relate to this? Maybe some people without this placement knows a native that they might comment on?

appleberry
01-01-2013, 07:24 PM
@byjove
Great thread and i think you hit the nail on the head with your first post. Still reading the rest. I'm Mercury at 6 degrees Pisces and your interpretation describes me well. (Also have Jupiter conjunct at 4 degrees Pisces)

Agree especially with:
- a lack of aggressiveness or desire to dominate or destroy automatically indicates a lesser intelligence. (So accurate of me and overpowerss my moon and sun in Aries)
- The native may or may not be able to channel those dreams, or know how to.
- If we're trapped in places (literal, mental etc.) that don't complement our abilities, we will surely come across as deluded and impractical.
- The perception that this position creates an 'unintelligent' native.... is totally unwarranted, and astrologers who have done their research know this perception comes from a lack of understanding.
- her original words: "you sit down and listen, and you absorb...as if...by osmosis or something and I think that the education system fails learners like you". (I actually graduated from a gifted program and did most of my later education by correspondence or rapid learning programs. Ultimately, I learn very quickly, very well, but prefer and do better learning on my own.)
- With Mercury, we talk of the voice but also of motion - a physical reaction to the sound of music -dancing. (I'm an artist involving both sound and movement... But talented at everything artistic... Vocally, as well... )


One thing that isn't me but may be because of Pluto conjunct Ac or something else... I don't always see the best in people. I often see the worst, bring out the worst and never completely trust people...

JUPITERASC
01-02-2013, 05:51 PM
@byjove
Great thread and i think you hit the nail on the head with your first post. Still reading the rest. I'm Mercury at 6 degrees Pisces and your interpretation describes me well. (Also have Jupiter conjunct at 4 degrees Pisces)

Agree especially with:
- a lack of aggressiveness or desire to dominate or destroy automatically indicates a lesser intelligence. (So accurate of me and overpowerss my moon and sun in Aries)
- The native may or may not be able to channel those dreams, or know how to.
- If we're trapped in places (literal, mental etc.) that don't complement our abilities, we will surely come across as deluded and impractical.
- The perception that this position creates an 'unintelligent' native.... is totally unwarranted, and astrologers who have done their research know this perception comes from a lack of understanding.
- her original words: "you sit down and listen, and you absorb...as if...by osmosis or something and I think that the education system fails learners like you". (I actually graduated from a gifted program and did most of my later education by correspondence or rapid learning programs. Ultimately, I learn very quickly, very well, but prefer and do better learning on my own.)
- With Mercury, we talk of the voice but also of motion - a physical reaction to the sound of music -dancing. (I'm an artist involving both sound and movement... But talented at everything artistic... Vocally, as well... )


One thing that isn't me but may be because of Pluto conjunct Ac or something else... I don't always see the best in people. I often see the worst, bring out the worst and never completely trust people...
Mercury is described as 'the trickster' and is ambivalent in being NEITHER male NOR female ALSO Mercury's influence varies depending upon its placement

i.e. - Source: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/mercury_att.html

"....if Mercury is in conjunction with a masculine planet, Mercury becomes masculine; if with a feminine, then feminine. By its own nature Mercury is cold and dry, and therefore melancholic.

Mercury is adaptable:

....its influence is beneficial when associated with good planets, malefic when associated with bad planets.

....Mercury is the author of subtlety, tricks, devices, and perjury...."

Therefore Mercury in Pisces is influenced by planets conjunct as well as by planets in aspect and morphs continually :smile:

CosmicBlyss
01-20-2013, 06:08 PM
talking is so 20th century......

telepathy is the way to go. :biggrin:

Hear, hear!! Sometimes I wish I could just take an adapter and plug one end of it into my forehead and the other into someone's else and just upload the information directly! :biggrin: Forget this formulated verbal translation stuff! :tongue:

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/8/1/0/2/1/webimg/640407179_o.jpg?nc=547

CosmicBlyss
01-20-2013, 06:23 PM
I have my Sun and Mercury both in Pisces. Mercury in the 3rd and Sun in the 4th house.

I have these same placements Kay!! :biggrin:

But from the chart you posted here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362216#post362216
it looks like you have both in the 4th house?

CosmicBlyss
01-20-2013, 06:39 PM
Mercury deals with our perception, thinking processes, learning and cognitive abilities, our sense of hearing in particular.

In Pisces if well aspected can give a great imagination, thinks a lot about spirituality and transcendence and can lend a sympathetic ear to those in trouble. Actually a lively imagination regardless but logic can be overcome by fantasy and wishful thinking.

Sensitivity to sounds and likes to be introspective, communicate and learns about those less privileged and like to spend time dreaming and being alone is a general analysis. Can be vague and confused with speech and get lost when travelling.

Umm..Yes. :whistling:

CosmicBlyss
01-20-2013, 07:05 PM
Numerically. See my post here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146912&postcount=110

This general thread is Seriously Awesome. :biggrin:

Mercury in Pisces 10.05/8.25/21.8
Moon in Aquarius 10.85/8.73/24.2

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/8/1/0/2/1/webimg/640407181_o.jpg?nc=381

CosmicBlyss
01-20-2013, 07:22 PM
Olivia

I think mercury in pisces is a high vibration and when I read your post about 'wet' I thought of the ocean and whales and dolphins communicating across 1000s of miles of ocean. only heard by those who can listen into that frequency

:biggrin: I seriously :love: this thread..did I say that already? :tongue:

It's kind of a dream of mine to be able to actually communicate with whales..
count me in on the advent of such development..humanely of course!

CosmicBlyss
01-20-2013, 09:16 PM
a while ago someone posted about the vibration of how we communicate those who excel in merc in pisces dont get heard cos the frequency gets lost in a world where those who are just working on the base level. (like having planets in 12th house and not appreciating their value)

I will post a link that I saw the other day about where mercury comes in your chart. it was quite interesting.

here you go - you may have already seen it - http://www.khaldea.com/planets/merc_type.shtml

Well ain't that somethin..very interesting indeed! :tongue:

"If your Mercury type is Promethean-Retrograde, you possess a mind seeking independence from biological limitations and the dictates of social convention. It does so because it is driven by an intuitive impulse to realize a new quality of being, the full nature of which you may not as yet clearly or fully understand.

But independence from natural compulsions and social convention often leads to a more or less violent rebellion against the past and its traditions, or from anything which holds back your mental eagerness.
Eventually, the Promethean-Retrograde type generally tires of resisting whatever she feels hinders her freedom. {Umm..like my LIFE?}
Then mental combativeness {3rd house Aquarius Moon opposite Leo Mars} gives ways to a powerful intuitive identification with, and a creative contribution to, something greater than the person {3rd house Mercury in Pisces}."

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/8/1/0/2/1/webimg/640378369_o.jpg?nc=863
{Michael Whelon - The Fourth Crusade}

Do you notice the burning city in the background..? While the cloaked woman is sitting on the shore of time..reflecting,
understanding, resigned to her fate..leaving the more chaotic past behind..that's how I see this. :joyful:

"Because the Promethean-Retrograde phase lasts from ten to fifteen days, it is seen in only about one out of ten birth charts.
Great minds and influential thinkers are found among Promethean-Retrograde types, including Aldous Huxley (http://www.khaldea.com/charts/aldoushuxley.shtml).
A member of England’s most prominent scientific family, Huxley migrated to America, where he became a famous novelist and social critic. Always a futuristic thinker, Huxley’s Promethean-Retrograde Mercury is clearly shown in his best-known novel, Brave New World." {Aquarius much?}

"Mercury’s character is traditionally said to be asexual, and its significance in a natal chart doesn’t vary much between men and women. Women born during Mercury’s Promethean-Retrograde phase, however, often find themselves engaged in challenging traditional roles and in defining a new image of woman."

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/8/1/0/2/1/webimg/604309359_o.jpg?nc=62

"Some of the most outstanding icons of new womanhood are Promethean-Rx types. Victoria Woodhull (http://www.khaldea.com/charts/woodhull.shtml), an early feminist of the nineteenth century and one of the most Promethean women of the modern era, is exemplary of the type.
Chrissie Hynde (http://www.khaldea.com/charts/chrissiehynde.shtml) - who opened the way for women to work as creative and musical principals in the world of rock music -
is a contemporary icon whose legacy has a tremendous impact on creative young women.
The editor of Cosmopolitan and author of Sex and the Single Girl, Helen Gurley Brown (http://www.khaldea.com/charts/helengurleybrown.shtml), is another Promethean-Rx woman."

from: http://www.khaldea.com/planets/merc_px.shtml

I interpret this as..while you may look the part and/or feel/relate to a more 'traditional' interpretation of standard/classic femininity,
you may not necessarily think or communicate in ways that were particularly encouraged for a woman once upon a time, though not really so long ago in actuality. Women's suffrage anyone? Among other things.

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/8/1/0/2/1/webimg/640407172_o.jpg?nc=230

byjove
01-21-2013, 12:01 PM
This general thread is Seriously Awesome. :biggrin:

Mercury in Pisces 10.05/8.25/21.8
Moon in Aquarius 10.85/8.73/24.2

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/8/1/0/2/1/webimg/640407181_o.jpg?nc=381

I absolutely love this quote. It synthesises a great deal which is misunderstood about intelligence in general. When I got my results in college, they were mixed; my final written exam performance was average, but my project work was very strong. The system is weighted to give written exam more value and as a result of this I did feel bad. I discussed it with an academic advisor, who kindly highlighted that my project work was far above average - the intelligence was in 'critical thinking' rather than the book-type 'rote learning'. Indeed, a lot like a fish judged on it's tree-climbing ability. :annoyed: One of my language professors who told me that I seemed to learn 'as if by osmosis' said that this type of educational systems fail people like me. This is classic Mercury in Pisces - learns differently, and yet the world's systems are designed to assess the opposite, so we appear to fail in their estimation.

I meant to ask, has anyone with this natal placement had particular problems with their senses? Hearing, sight etc?

pudinnpop
01-21-2013, 05:53 PM
I too have mercury in pisces ninth house!! I was born def in my left ear!!!

princess valhalla
01-21-2013, 06:00 PM
:biggrin: I seriously :love: this thread..did I say that already? :tongue:

It's kind of a dream of mine to be able to actually communicate with whales..
count me in on the advent of such development..humanely of course!


Made me think of the book "Fluke" by Christopher Moore. He is one of my fave authors! :)
http://www.chrismoore.com/fluke.html

Caro
01-21-2013, 06:10 PM
well here is some sounds on an aptly named website.

http://neptune.atlantis-intl.com/dolphins/sounds.html

byjove
01-21-2013, 06:36 PM
I too have mercury in pisces ninth house!! I was born def in my left ear!!!

Ah ha! I think there could be some research here! My dad and I both have Mercury in Pisces and have had ear troubles (blockages) and no one else in the family has the same issue...just us M in P natives...

Caro, yes, I was thinking of just that animal - DOLPHINS. Dolphins come to mind when I think Mercury in Pisces communication. I note that dolphin and whale communication reaches a far greater distance than anything we humans come up with...:whistling:

Caro
01-24-2013, 06:51 AM
Cosmic Blyss. thanks for your feedback and glad that the messages resonated with you.:whistling:

what is interesting is that these posts were mostly written in 2010 and it is taken until now for them to be read it would seem.

or maybe Ive been on this forum tooooo long now.

JUPITERASC
01-24-2013, 11:33 AM
Cosmic Blyss. thanks for your feedback and glad that the messages resonated with you.:whistling:

what is interesting is that these posts were mostly written in 2010 and it is taken until now for them to be read it would seem.

or maybe Ive been on this forum tooooo long now.
Better late than never! :smile:

byjove
01-24-2013, 11:36 AM
Hi Caro, if you mean the posts in this thread, recently I added more detail to my opening post, as I always hoped to, then I posted at the end to warm discussion. I'd say older posts were seen by fresh eyes! From start to finish, the discussion has been great, I'm thrilled.

JUPITERASC
01-24-2013, 11:46 AM
Hi Caro, if you mean the posts in this thread, recently I added more detail to my opening post, as I always hoped to, then I posted at the end to warm discussion. I'd say older posts were seen by fresh eyes! From start to finish, the discussion has been great, I'm thrilled.
Also interestingly appropriate that for a natal Mercury retrograde such as yourself byjove 'rethinking' and 'revisiting' is not unusual and in fact is very useful to do! :smile:

Caro
01-26-2013, 06:57 PM
Well with natal mercury in pisces I already have 2000 reasons why they were not read. which is cool.

dustinandrewjackson
01-26-2013, 07:28 PM
I have Mercury in Pisces in the 12th house. To my knowledge, Mercury only has one major placement in my natal chart (Mercury Square Uranus) but I really don't think I am all that affected by it.

JUPITERASC
01-26-2013, 07:47 PM
Pisces is the natural home aka domicile of Jupiter as well as the Exalted home of Venus - therefore to assess in detail individual placements of Mercury in Pisces, study the natal house and sign locations of both Venus and Jupiter as well as aspects between natal Venus, natal Jupiter and natal Mercury :smile:

Note also

(1) transits from both transiting Venus and transiting Jupiter to
(a) natal Mercury
(b) natal Jupiter
(c) natal Venus

(2) transits from transiting Mercury to:
(a) natal Mercury
(b) natal Jupiter
(c) natal Venus

Caro
01-26-2013, 08:03 PM
and neptune ? :wink: :sideways: house. sign and placement? well what do ya know eh look neptune is transiting in pisces! :love:

I think i may not what the next reply to this post might be! :smile:

appleberry
01-27-2013, 06:28 PM
Hmm... I'm mercury in pisces and have ear issues too...

pudinnpop
01-27-2013, 08:00 PM
Jovey: I had to have tubes in my ears and every year I gotta get them drained!!!!Cos they will fill up so much to the point i cant hear!!

Also I dont know if this has anything to do with merc in pisces but i also have speech issues!! I cant pronounce SH and CH words good..!! For instance If i say CHERYL...It sounds like Carol!!Church is IMPOSSIBLE for me to say!!!

byjove
01-27-2013, 10:01 PM
Hey pudinpop!

So many natives here can claim to blocked ears/similar that I think I'll mention it in the health forum. I have medical and natural at-home solutions for this too. As I say, the only people that I know in person that have this problem are M in P natives...:andy:

I'm not surprised about the speech connection. Mercury after all will relate to people any way that it can, communication of ideas, so definitely includes speech.

JupiterASC, I was think about the condition of Venus and Jupiter related to a Mercury in Pisces in a natal chart. If a chart showed a dignified or well-placed (house, aspect etc.) Venus and Jupiter, would you expect much more of the positives of Pisces to be expressed though the functions of this Mercury? p.s. I had another peak at my chart, and I don't think Mercury is retrograde...:andy:

Update: Health thread on Mercury on Pisces created for anyone that wants to share tips: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=450319#post450319

JUPITERASC
01-28-2013, 07:03 PM
....JupiterASC, I was think about the condition of Venus and Jupiter related to a Mercury in Pisces in a natal chart. If a chart showed a dignified or well-placed (house, aspect etc.) Venus and Jupiter, would you expect much more of the positives of Pisces to be expressed though the functions of this Mercury? p.s. I had another peak at my chart, and I don't think Mercury is retrograde...:andy:
With multiple threads on the forum byjove, then I assume it was on a different thread by another member that I probably read they have Mercury Retrograde!!

In any event, if Venus and Jupiter are both dignified by sign
i.e. Venus is in domicile or exaltation and Jupiter is in domicile or exaltation
THEN Jupiter and Venus BOTH BENEFIT the matters of those houses that they rule
WITH THE CAVEAT THAT:
if a malefic - i.e. either Mars of Saturn - aspects Venus and/or Jupiter THEN their effects are modified and careful study/delineation is required :smile:
The type of Delineation I'm giving here is a mix of medieval techniques with those of the Hellenistic authors.
Robert Zoller played great role in my traditional astrology education and this is obvious for those who are familiar with his work.

1. The good or bad signified by a house emanates from the ruler of the house.

This is the basic rule. The ruler of the house is giver of the material of the house.

Zoller gives the example of his own chart where he has Combusted Mercury in 11th, ruler of 4th. He comments that this kind of placement brings adversity to ones home and dwellings.


2. Benefit in one area of life can be produced by adversity, or even conflict, in another.

Again Zoller gives example from his own chart.
Jupiter in 9th in Scorpio disposited from Mars in 11th: Wisdom coming from conflicts.

3. The delineation tells you the what. The
predictive techniques tell you the when.

Caro
03-10-2013, 10:52 AM
Sharon Stone. merc in pisces. mensa : 154

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Stone%2C_Sharon?lang=e

byjove
03-10-2013, 04:49 PM
Sharon Stone. merc in pisces. mensa : 154

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Stone%2C_Sharon?lang=e

Yes, member Frank did some research on this and typical prejudices proved misguided when it came to IQ levels, Mercury in Pisces. I just seen that quote above again, from Albert Einstein pointing out that if we use the wrong tools to judge people's ability, then the results are as ineffective as the tools. This is why I hate the typical educational assesment tools. I'm not sure if it's a good idea pursuing more formal education beyond what I've already completed, by their estimation - I would not be learning. I did international business & languages for my primary degree. If I did art or music or poetry perhaps I could fare better. My accounting professor despised creative expression like it was the bane of humanity lol.

Caro
03-30-2013, 07:37 AM
Celine Dion - mercury in pisces.

probably one of the most well known singers globally.(huge in china)

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dion%2C_Celine?lang=e

may28gemini
04-15-2013, 12:42 AM
Sharon Stone isn't a very good example to serve as something that's "typical" for Pisces Mercury. For starters, she's got exalted Capricorn Mars which tightly sextiles her Mercury which can provide the confidence and backbone to work hard on lifting Pisces Mercury's deficiencies. Also, Mercury in the 8th house is NOT the worst for Mercury to be in. If anything, it gives Mercury the drive to dig deeper and investigate information (for good or ill). Still, Sharon Stone isn't in a field that requires hardcore "intellect" as she made her name through acting which is a Piscean field.

Einstein isn't that great of an example either, as he had Aries Mercury, NOT Pisces Mercury. Still, he was horrible at math and there's strong evidence that he stole his 1st wife's work and claimed it for himself. When they were both students at the university, she was a brilliant student in physics and had a promising career. When they got married, she acquiesced to her husband's career and when he became famous for a formula that is only derived from advance mathematics which he was BAD at, he dumped her and left their children. He had exalted Capricorn Mars... which gave him the drive to succeed and excel in his chosen career.

The problem with debilitated Mercury is that Mercury is the intellect itself and for that area of the person to have corrupted energy is hard to get around. Mercury isn't happy in Pisces, nor any water sign. When planets are uncomfortable in a sign, the energies and expressions are not going to fully be expressed in ways the planet are suppose to work. But just because a planet is debilitated does not mean it cannot achieve.

Archer7
04-15-2013, 01:14 AM
It might have been mentioned before, but I remembered Charles Darwin with Aquarius Sun and Mercury in Pisces. I do see a positive trait in that in his book 'Origin of Species', he represents a dream like state of nature, where nature itself is dreaming up an ideal creation through natural selection.

Then I think of Richard Dawkins who also has Mercury in Pisces (but not one planet in Air, except for the North Node in Libra closely opposing his Aries Sun). His atheism has on the one hand a positive face in that he encourages communities to learn science and ponder the wonders of the universe. On the other hand, he reaches over generalisations and tends to throw the baby out with the bathwater in regarding anything that lacks hard, material scientific evidence to be delusional. I saw posts on his facebook page for instance that rightfully refute religious extremism, but he takes it a step further and mocks anyone who prays or meditates and so on. It is paradoxical because his Moon and Venus are also in Pisces, which would suggest an inclination toward imagination and transcendental subjects, rather than the fury with which he often dismisses them as 'mumbo jumbo'.....the problem is that he misses the subtleties. For instance, he created a documentary that rightly exposed the falsities of star sign columns in newspapers, but he missed the fact that most true Astrologers do not regard star sign columns to be legitimate Astrology. His mind tends to resist imagination itself, as if he is at constant battle with his own archetypes that incline him toward what is beyond material reality.

I have met people who are uncannily productive with Mercury in Pisces though. Forgive me if I already mentioned it in an earlier post, but two cases where I saw its creative face:

K: a poet and editor who has a creative approach to editing fiction and poetry. He also has Sun in Pisces.

T: a man who has Sun in Virgo, Mercury in Pisces: he creates and sells didgeridoos (an aboriginal musical and meditation instrument).

may28gemini
04-15-2013, 01:22 AM
Richard Dawkins' Sun is exalted in Aries. That ought to be the 1st thing that leaps out. I personally cannot stand Aries Sun people because they're usually overly self-confident even when they're no real reason to be that way but it's that excessive amount of self-confidence that leads Aries Sun people to be hardcore achievers. Another thing about him, he has exalted Capricorn Mars (strong backbone and willpower to succeed in concrete ways) which is part of his Grand Earth Kite configuration (again, hardcore Earth influence that is comfortable with real world, concrete energy) lead by Venus (how lovely). His Pisces Mercury isn't aspected and pretty much doesn't make much of a presence. His chart evicted Pisces Mercury .

How can Virgo Sun possibly have Pisces Mercury? I don't think any Virgo sun would want to touch that Mercury even if they were paid.

Archer7
04-15-2013, 02:17 AM
Richard Dawkins' Sun is exalted in Aries. That ought to be the 1st thing that leaps out. I personally cannot stand Aries Sun people because they're usually overly self-confident even when they're no real reason to be that way but it's that excessive amount of self-confidence that leads Aries Sun people to be hardcore achievers. Another thing about him, he has exalted Capricorn Mars (strong backbone and willpower to succeed in concrete ways) which is part of his Grand Earth Kite configuration (again, hardcore Earth influence that is comfortable with real world, concrete energy) lead by Venus (how lovely). His Pisces Mercury isn't aspected and pretty much doesn't make much of a presence. His chart evicted Pisces Mercury .

How can Virgo Sun possibly have Pisces Mercury? I don't think any Virgo sun would want to touch that Mercury even if they were paid.

Pardon I made an error as he has Virgo Ascendant! My mercury in Sag can also have its detrimental moments! I'm wondering about Dawkins sun closely conjunct the south node too .... But when it comes to Aries sun I think as with all signs it comes back to the individual xo

Flowergirl
04-15-2013, 03:46 AM
Yes, member Frank did some research on this and typical prejudices proved misguided when it came to IQ levels, Mercury in Pisces. I just seen that quote above again, from Albert Einstein pointing out that if we use the wrong tools to judge people's ability, then the results are as ineffective as the tools. This is why I hate the typical educational assesment tools.

Well said!

I like to think of Mercury in Pisces in terms of being the 'messenger of the gods' in terms of right brain activity. Perhaps this placement, being susceptible and dreamy at times, creates the space for sudden brilliant insights or ideas or solutions that is inspired, yes... by the 'gods'. Where left brained Mercury in Virgo can rationalise things and pull the insights out of a hat in that quick way, the left brained Mercury perhaps needs time for inspiration to seep into the conscious mind or be expressed from a quiet intuitive space. That is perhaps why left brain, quick thinking Mercury views Mercury in Pisces as slow or stupid. Mercury in Pisces is the typical intuitive mind that is receptive for divine inspiration that may come in it's own time and has it's own brilliance.

Mercury also has an occult side, so healing, astrology and the transmission of spiritual knowledge are also in his area. (http://www.astrologycom.com/mercret.html)

As we progress further with Neptune in Pisces and the return of the divine feminine, I believe Piscean/12th house/Neptune qualities will become more valued, practised and understood by us all. We are already seeing how people have become more sensitive since Neptune into Pisces. Interesting times are ahead... Left brained activity has been explored to death the last few hundred years. Time for change people.

Flowergirl
04-15-2013, 04:41 AM
In our modern lives, we can also look at Mercury as a bridge. How an idea comes into our consciousness is a mysterious and amazing process, and Mercury is the bridge along which ideas, or the seeds of ideas, travel from the unconscious to the conscious mind. We commonly think of “having” ideas, but we don’t often delve into the origin of those ideas, how they came about. from (http://www.sherastrology.com/2009/08/mercury-%E2%80%93-messenger-of-the-gods/)

Perhaps these inspirations from the 'gods' are from our soul, our guides, God, higher self or whoever we believe Creator to be. The so called 'mind' is not responsible for this. Mercury in Pisces may be especially receptive to this.

byjove
04-15-2013, 11:17 AM
...Left brained activity has been explored to death the last few hundred years. Time for change people.

I couldn't agree more! I appreciate science, but I'm appauled at how little they seem to have learned from their conflicts with the religious community in Europe 500 years ago. Contrary to their belief, I don't think the entire world can be explained in a test tube, under a microscope. I think the Pisces nature sees right through this.

The scientific community may appreciate music, art and love like the rest of us, yet can they truly explain these endeavours? The human tongue sometimes seems a poor substitute for communicating these things.

may28gemini
04-16-2013, 01:58 AM
I have Gemini Mercury and I gotta say... I don't think Virgo Mercury is totally left-brained inclined. There's a tendency for Virgo Mercury to excel with numbers (my mother has Virgo Mercury and she was an accountant and financial analyst for most of her adult life) which may seem to be "uncreative" and hardcore but those with strong Mercuries of Gemini or Virgo have the ability to just excel in just about everything. That's the beauty of Mercury as he rules the mind and intellect. There's long lists of Virgo Mercury artists, writers, musicians out there who contributed a lot to the arts. Virgo Mercury Madonna was the one that sang about us living in a material world. She transformed pop music and fashion. Even my mother in her 50s enjoys ballroom dancing and swirling around. Virgo Mercury is not limited in what they take up, not the way Pisces is very limited.

Virgo Mercury is dignified to which it can do whatever it wanted. Virgo Mercury isn't limited to one area or another, as it can freely operate and take up either creative and/or concrete endeavors with no problems. Pisces Mercury is debilitated and are limited to a certain area that it can operate before it can't handle the harshness of concrete demands.

To further extend this concept, I would say the major difference between the Virgo-Pisces Mercury axis is one of method.

I think Virgo Mercury sees creativity and imagination as a something very concrete and tangible for which they can plan and structuralize, not only in their minds, but with their hands and can explain and use all the 5 senses to rationalize what they do. Pisces Mercury sees creativity and imagination as something fluid, spiritual, and doesn't necessarily have to take a solid form to exist. As a matter of fact, Pisces Mercury deals with the intangible better and more comfortable with things that aren't exactly explainable with the 5 senses.

Lady Gaga has Pisces Mercury Rx... and yet, she's a singing megastar who made her fame by singing about junk that makes ZERO sense but some of it sounds kinda good. But what really attracts attention is that she comes out in outrageous outfits and makes up quirky names for her fans. I don't think she'd be able to do any of that with her badly messed up Mercury if it weren't for her powerful 0 degree Capricorn Mars running the show in her 8th house. Oh yeah, early Aries Sun helps out heaps.

Those that are famous with Pisces Mercury tend to have some strong factor in their chart that helps them out- such as a strong Mars.

I've never met anyone with Pisces Mercury that wasn't dyslexic, didn't have some sort of learning disability, didn't get FACTS mixed up with something completely made-up and non-existent, didn't get placed in some remedial class as a youngster, or wasn't told they were stupid. With a badly damaged Mercury, life, and I mean life in the REAL way, would be super difficult for them to get by without resorting to drugs or some hallucinogenic agent to placate their super sensitive minds.

BluEyedGrl105
04-16-2013, 03:02 AM
Well. This is all making me feel super confident about my 6 year old nephew's 3H Mercury conjunct Uranus in Pisces (mutual reception with Neptune, of all things...)

He is good at reading. His only real trouble is his attention span, tbh. He loves drawing monsters and making up video games. When he was a bit younger he was fascinated by anything that had to do with the body. He'd just randomly ask questions like, 'how does your heart pump blood?' and 'are the guts inside the skeleton or outside?' and my sister would just be like 'Um... Get the book!' lol

Right Now T. Uranus is going over his Sun/Ic so I can only hope that's why he's been so hyped up lately and not necessarily a sign of things to come.

byjove
04-16-2013, 11:00 AM
^^

Well that is very intriguing, I haven't yet read the testimony of a Mercury/Uranus conjunct native. I have the square myself. In another thread discussing invention in the last 200 years, it seems transiting Uranus through Pisces very humanely 'brought technology to the people, for everyone' through say the World Wide Web.

With the square between the two, I've always been a technology-crazy person, as often is the case when these two are in contact. When transiting Uranus crossed over my natal Mercury in Pisces, I took leaps and bounds in my understanding and ability with technology. I'm self-taught, but I can take any tech. object I own, take it to pieces, replace anything and restore it back together.

Therefore, I wonder will your nephew develop an interest in technology, particularly computers and the World Wide Web? Those two conjunct in house 3...this is very helpful for communicating his ideas I think. Do keep us updated on his development! :joyful:

summer92
04-20-2013, 10:53 AM
I have Mercury in Pisces in the 3rd house,and always feel that there's something blocking my mind.I day dream a lot (it's affecting my work),however I'm good at Mathematics

byjove
05-09-2013, 12:43 PM
Thinking in pictures, or music or math or words...

I just found an few comments from an individual with autism who comments on how are minds work differently and we need society to facilitate this: (Temple Grandin)

Original article, just a few comments
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20121128-rethinking-the-way-we-think

A very intriguing video where she shows how mind work differently:
http://www.ted.com/talks/temple_grandin_the_world_needs_all_kinds_of_minds. html
She really gets to it at 6 minutes 30 onwards.

She mentions three types of mind:

1. Photo realistic
Visual thinkers, poor at algebra

2. Pattern thinkers
Music and math

3. Verbal mind
poor at drawing

Wow.

milkywaygirl
05-09-2013, 09:50 PM
I have Mercury in Pisces in the 3rd house,and always feel that there's something blocking my mind.I day dream a lot (it's affecting my work),however I'm good at Mathematics

I also have merc in pisces in third, trine uranus in 12th, 2 degree orb. I started reading at 3 and was placed in a gifted program during elementary and high school. Not to toot my own horn or anything (ok maybe a bit!), but I'm good at anything I put my mind to. I'm excellent at math, creative writing, public speaking, science especially chemistry and physiology, i play several instruments and speak two languages (currently working on my third), and won a slew of awards in school, before dropping out in the 12th grade. I'm not dyslexic, have never been called stupid, nor been in remedial anything. I just actually finished a semester of serving as a math and science tutor. Intellectually, I have the capacity to pursue any career, but I have no interest in making money for the sake of money, and so have taken the long road to finding a fulfilling career that suits my piscean sensibilities. I've had 3 "careers" thus far, and am currently working on my fourth, and hopefully final one.

I think the key to my ability to learn virtually anything is my ability to grasp The Big Picture. Whenever I desire to learn something, I start off at the broadest point, and try to understand from outwards inwards. Once you understand the overarching concept of anything, the details become quite simple and straightforward. I also luckily have been blessed with a wicked sense of intuition that I have been fine tuning over the years. I rely heavily on intuition in day to day life, and I never get lost :) I just tap into the the "flow" of things and go with it.

I'm pretty much self taught, and learn best when I have a genuine interest in a subject. I don't have hobbies - I get interested in something, learn all there is about it, and then move onto the next thing. The uranus trine has resulted in many clashes in the school environment as I require a lot of freedom in this area, and when I was younger I would get extremely frustrated with the slow pace of instruction and lack of creativity of the framework, which contributed to me dropping out. I actually wanted to go into education and specifically education reform for a few years, as I felt that I and others like me are done an immense disservice by the current North American educational system. If I had my own child, I would 100% homeschool them, with a focus on child-led learning.

Personally, I think that any planet in pisces has the capacity to operate and express its energy in the fullest sense due to that energy being able to connect directly with the "ether", "collective consciousness", "divinity" or what have you, but maybe I'm just biased ;)

byjove
05-22-2013, 11:43 PM
...

I've never met anyone with Pisces Mercury that wasn't dyslexic, didn't have some sort of learning disability, didn't get FACTS mixed up with something completely made-up and non-existent, didn't get placed in some remedial class as a youngster, or wasn't told they were stupid. With a badly damaged Mercury, life, and I mean life in the REAL way, would be super difficult for them to get by without resorting to drugs or some hallucinogenic agent to placate their super sensitive minds.

This really interests me. English is my native language. I only started to develop trouble with spelling after I studied multiple foreign languages. A friend in education tells me it 're-wires the brain'. I'm not totally sure it's worth it! Culturally yes, linguisticlly, no! :sideways:

may28gemini
05-25-2013, 09:12 PM
Learning languages does rewire the brain because humans think in language.

General scenario: If you're use to thinking in English and you learn Russian (for example), chances are, the language is not going to be similar to what you're use to. It will take some time and "rewiring" to get you to be adjusted to the new language. This is to be expected for everyone.

With impaired Mercury like Pisces and Sagittarius, rewiring happens to get accustomed to the new language but there's a high likelihood of getting their pre-existing wires crossed. When a person has a strong Mercury such as Gemini or Virgo, the rewiring process would be less bumpy (unless it's in retrograde, then there's going to be some bumps).

That's why it's "best" to get children to learn languages at very early ages before wiring happens for them so it would be a smoother transition.

byjove
05-26-2013, 12:13 AM
I'm not sure what policy I'd advise in that situation. Even if it's hard or risky to Mercury Sag/Pis natives to learn other languages, I woudn't recommend a Sun in Libra native not to take the lead at work though. So I don't know if I'd discourage language learning with Sag/Pisc Mercury natives. (I'm not saying that you do of course!)

The ironic thing about Merc. in Pisc. is that 'academic' learning is most strongly valued with accrediting foreign languages I think. Yet, just about every language teacher that I've had (just as the Rosetta Stone teaches) they recommend 'situational' or 'environmental' learning is the best; learning amongst natives in casual day to day life. So, the Mercury in Virgo academic style is most respected, perhaps, yet the Pisces absorption is what language teachers recommend. Maybe it just comes down to the rest of the chart, the rest of the chart may support these things or maybe you have to be frank and say, study music/art/other things but mathematics/languages are unlikely to be the strong point.

may28gemini
05-27-2013, 06:40 AM
Actually, I think Libra can make better leaders than Aries. Aries is too into themselves and have to have their way. Aries always think they're #1 and they're like allergic to accepting failure. Libra is collaborative and will be concerned for others. Libra is always in danger of bending too far backwards for others that they can easily overcompensate with austerity (like V.Putin). However, I find that Libran qualities are more agreeable as to what would make a good leader as opposed to selfish Aries.

Yeah, Virgo Mercury is like the world's "standarized" way of learning. That is necessary because Virgo Mercury brings with it the importance of objectivity and facts. Without it, the world would get nothing done and be floating around being loopy. Granted, Virgo Mercury can be dry and axe out some interesting possibilities.

Oddly enough, the world doesn't respect Gemini Mercury. It's funny that Mercury's "nature" is predominantly Gemini and yet, even though both Gemini and Virgo Mercuries exist on the same high functioning level, the world opted for the Virgo Mercury way of learning. Gemini is into facts and objectivity, but it's also creative and intuitive as well. Gemini will use intuition and other various methods that will lead them to facts, whereas, Virgo will stick with just the facts. Gemini Mercury has the upper hand with articulation but Virgo Mercury reigns supreme with numbers. Virgo Mercury (numbers) have a specific structure and sequence and can be checked. Gemini Mercury is difficult to pin down and control because it's the fastest Mercury and likes switching everything. With the opposite of Virgo Mercury, Pisces Mercury is in detriment because it doesn't give into account of facts... it operates on belief and that's not something that can be checked. Pisces Mercury doesn't really care that what they believe doesn't get checked. Thankfully, the world doesn't exist that way.


What would I suggest to you? Nothing? I thought we were just discussing what we thought.

Breakthrough
01-24-2014, 10:29 AM
My father has Merc in Pisc. He's vague, that's for sure, I often have a difficult time understanding delineations of his thoughts which seem to be shifting dunes that you can perish in for good. But he's smart, a nuclear physicist by education and is good with structure and organization, Although, the latter could be attributed to his other placements (Mars in Virgo, Sun and Merc conj Sat, Merc opp Uranus, Moon in Cap).

vanessanz
05-22-2015, 11:28 AM
I have this heavily emphasized in my chart;

3rd house Pisces Mercury is opposite Virgo Moon/Midheaven

Moon conjunct MC in Virgo [2 degree orb] > exactly square 12th house Neptune

12th house Neptune is square 3rd house Mercury in Pisces [So a T-square]



I also have Venus in Pisces 3rd house & Sun in Pisces 4th house

Mercury [chart depositor along with Neptune] is closely trine Uranus /North Node in 11th house

Mercury & Uranus are both closely sextile A.C

This combination certainly makes me very intuitive & able to feel the energy of any environment. I struggle to logically process this awareness sometimes though
I was an academically gifted kid put in accelerant classes, but failed maths / chemistry :smile: So it doesn't make you dumb, but probably true that it's not the best combo for maths!
I also think visually - i even do maths visually in my head...
It gives me a highly refined & intuitive 'eye' or sense of aesthetics.

I can confirm that i have heavily relied on my intuition & ability to visualize, to create built environments / businesses – I can basically feel a finished structure then i work backwards to analyze the detail & the steps needed to build it
I flip between the two modes continuously highly analytical vs visionary – not always in balance………………..

vanessanz
05-22-2015, 11:46 AM
Thanks for your post Milkywaygirl! Your experience sounds very similar to mine, which i find interesting.
I also have Mercury in Pisces 3rd closely trine Uranus in 11th.
Very quick intuitive mind able to master most skills quickly - i think this might be more to do with our Mercury / Uranus trine than our Mercury in Pisces though...

cspencer
05-22-2015, 07:40 PM
I note that traditional users would refer to Jupiter being the ruler of Pisces and that these assumptions of peril don't appear - they appear with the modern ruler of Neptune. Hopefully, some discussion on this may be possible.

That's true.

Also, when reading the ancient texts, they tended to give either the best case scenario or the worst case scenario. It's up to you to build off of that based on the actual condition of the Star.

The issue is which Mercury shows up in Pisces.

Is Mercury retrograde? Fast or slow? East or west of the Sun? Nocturnal or diurnal? Combust or under beams?

And then is Mercury assembled with other Stars?

Pisces Mercury assembled with Venus and Sun is not the same as Pisces Mercury assembled with a Sun and combust Moon.

Is Mercury in aspect?

Is Mercury assembled and in aspect to another Star?

Is Mercury regarded by the malefics or in aversion to them?

All those things really do matter and really do make a difference.

Oh, and then are Mercury and Sun in aversion?

CapAquaPis
07-08-2015, 07:15 AM
When one has a Mercury in Pisces-9th come in close to the Sun/Moon conjunction in Aquarius-8th, while Mercury opposites a stellium: Jupiter/Mars/Saturn/Lilith in Virgo-3rd, what would become of one's intellectual abilities? Like I said in earlier posts on other threads about the placement of Mercury linked to autism and mental disability, there should be a bigger role other than the smallest planet in our solar system: the Sun and Moon are the two most influential celestial bodies on charts and they have to conflict Mercury.

Oddity
07-08-2015, 07:47 AM
...there should be a bigger role other than the smallest planet in our solar system: the Sun and Moon are the two most influential celestial bodies on charts and they have to conflict Mercury.

I think you may be looking at this the wrong way.

Mercury can be the killing planet. It can be a marriage planet. It can be the most important planet in your chart. It can do a lot of things. Planets are hugely influential, their relative size doesn't matter. Look at modern astrology's tendency to pretty much invoke Pluto to explain everything - and Pluto is tiny.

If you feel that only the sun and moon are important, you could limit your astrology to those, but I don't believe that's the case. Sometimes, often, they are not the most influential planets in a chart.

byjove
09-28-2015, 11:03 PM
I've been thinking about this one again.

Why does Mercury not do well under Jupiter's rulership?

Many astrologers I've discovered don't have a high opinion of Mercury in Sagittarius. Too scattered intellectually etc. In Pisces, delusional, naive etc.

But Jupiter is the Great Benefic. It illuminates intellectually. It can also be over optimistic. Is Jupiter not an older, wise teacher able to guide the young, curious mind?

Not all astrologers consider Mercury in fall in Pisces, only detriment. Why two bullets?

Oddity
09-28-2015, 11:36 PM
Mercury separates, sorts, divides, contests. It destabilises things, or tries to.

Jupiter tries to pull it all together and see the big picture. It tries to stabilise things.

They're both important for critical thinking, but they just don't work well in each other's houses.

As for Mercury and the double bullet - there's a wonderful mythological explanation here: https://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2006/09/26/the-horoscope-of-the-world/

CapAquaPis
09-29-2015, 01:03 AM
So, there's a Mercury-Jupiter connection in astrology. :andy: Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system. In traditional astrology, Jupiter rules Pisces where Mercury happens to be its detriment. Oddity: Responding to your post response from July, I'm very aware all planets in astrology are important. I commented about my sun/Moon Aquarius placed in 8th near my Mercury in Pisces in 9th. Do you know what that means?

Oddity
09-29-2015, 04:39 AM
Good point, which begs one to ask the question of who assigned the rulership of the sign of Pisces to Jupiter?......
You have go back to the time when the choice of planets ended at Saturn, now who would you have given the Pisces rulership to?

It's in the thema mundi - http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/thema-mundi-large.jpg

We know that Saturn is like an opposition because its houses, Capricorn and Aquarius, oppose the houses of the moon and the sun. We know that Jupiter is like a trine because it trines the sun from its day-house, Sagittarius, and trines the moon from its night-house, Pisces. We know that Mars is like a square, because it squares the moon from its day-house, Aries, and squares the sun from its night-house, Scorpio. We know that Venus is like a sextile, because it sextiles the sun from its day-house, Libra, and the moon from its night-house, Taurus. Mercury, being right next to the sun and moon picks up the influence of that which it is next to.

So...is Pisces the day-house or the night-house of Neptune? What gender is Neptune? Which sect? Where are its other dignities?

The more I look at it, the more it seems the concept of rulership at all doesn't fit into the modern schemata. Not a criticism. An observation.

david starling
09-29-2015, 05:24 AM
Oddity, sign-rulership is vital to me as a "modern" Tropical astrologer. We need Traditionalism as the roots, and modern for the branches. And, in branching out, we have to let much of the Traditional schemata go in order to expand the rulership pattern. Thank the Trads for protecting the roots!

Birch Dragon
09-29-2015, 06:29 AM
This thread – a great thread which has been around for a long time now – already offers argument and testimonial against the common notion that Mercury somehow doesn’t work well in Pisces. But allow me to add to it...

As a Virgo rising and Gemini Midheaven, my Pisces Mercury is of central importance in my chart. Just one degree off my descendant, it sits square to Saturn (within one degree), and Neptune (within nine degrees), making it the base of a wide t-square that winds up having real power in my chart due to it’s very close alignment with my angular cusps. To many an eye my Mercury is badly placed, and given it’s centrality in my chart we might think that would bode very poorly for my life.

And yet I’m an Ivy League trained PhD and a working professor. While it’s true that all academics focus on certain fields over others, and my smarts aren’t equal in all areas, I’m serious when I say that I’d put my raw intelligence up against anybody’s in the world. (Which I say, of course, purely for the sake of astrological inquiry and not at all out of some Arian boasting!)

I’m going to say that if the Piscean Mercury starts out essentially musical and metaphor-minded, in it’s great flexibility and (maybe more correctly) receptivity, it can be disciplined and trained, shown the ways of solid structure, empirical observation and hard analysis. Underneath these things, always, the Pisces mercury will be singing the universe to light, dancing endlessly through oceans of ambiguity and symbolism, synthesizing the component pieces to reveal the oneness of everything. But to communicate what it sees I think the Piscean Mercury can learn any language, including Logic, Rigor, Stuffy and Math (which at a certain level actually starts to look very mystical).



I really like what Oddity is doing just a few posts above this one. Great stuff! I’ve long wanted to write something about Gemini as the first sign of distinction/duality, and how that connects it so intimately with language. (Though it’s probably already written somewhere, by a real astrologer…) Language is only made possible in the act of distinguishing concepts, and distinguishing the squiggles and sounds we use to signify those concepts. The difference between “cat” and “cut” is only a slight squiggle in the second letter, but that distinction allows us to envision two separate concepts in our mind. And so, with each distinction, a whole system of language grows.

When we turn to Virgo, Mercury again is cutting, parsing out and making distinctions. Here the mind is less focused on the pure form of ideas, as it is in Gemini, and more on the practical. Science applied. But still, essentially, Virgo is making distinctions. Analysis is actually the act of taking a whole and parsing it out into smaller component parts. It’s the opposite of the Piscean/Neptunian impulse to synthesize and dissolve distinctions: to take component parts and see them as a whole -- a whole the sum of which is greater than the parts.

Looked at that way, Mercury’s basic nature seems at odds with Neptune, for sure, and as byjove and Oddity suggest, seemingly Jupiter as well. But why be satisfied to think the mind is working best when it’s dissecting and making distinctions, analyzing and bringing clarity to our language? Don’t our minds also and equally need to synthesize? To merge together? To create ambiguity in murky symbolism?

The Piscean mind is musical because music is symphonic. If you tear apart a symphony, or even a pop song, into it’s individual tracks and play them one by one, you’ve actually killed the song. Or at least reduced it to something less. The human mind analyses, yes. But the human mind also has to merge together in symphonic harmony.

The Piscean mind is sympathetic because the human capacity for sympathy is a dissolution of the mental space between us --- a momentary merging of our emotional lives. Yes, we are each separate individuals, with our own unique psyches. But we don’t actually exist in emotional isolation. The merest love, the merest friendship, or even just the involuntary twinge of pain we feel when we walk by somebody else in pain, reminds us of that.

Yes, we need clear language and sharp argument to spell a thesis out to us systematically. But we also need poetry – waves of symbols that merge together in ways we can feel but never entirely explain – to grasp why this or that thesis really matters in our lives.

Mercury in Pisces is of a different nature than the essentially distinction-oriented nature of Gemini or Virgo, but human life does require we have both, and balance, those mental natures. To my mind, it’s not actually about Mercury fitting “poorly” or “well.”
And again, I'd strongly suggest that whatever lack in rigor, structure, discipline, distinction-making or practicality we may think Pisces Mercury suffers from, it's well equipped to simply absorb that trait and make it a part of it's own nature.

Oddity
09-29-2015, 06:41 AM
A few things that might tickle you then. Mercury joys in the first house because it rules the tongue and language, language being a big part of what makes you - you.

The moon is the instinctive, non-rational mind, and the sun is the light of mind, or consciousness. In hermetic thought, the mind is what works on the brain - it's rather too important to be left to one planet alone.

I always get the impression when I say 'Mercury is detrimented and in fall in Pisces' that what people are hearing is: 'Odd just said I'm an idiot'.

Not the case, but it means Mercury is working against its grain. You have Mercury ruled signs rising and on the midheaven? How have things been in your profession and being known in the world, and with your health and other first house matters? If they're all terrific, Jupiter (Mercury's ruler in your chart) is probably well-placed. If they aren't so great, you're experiencing some of that detriment and fall.

It doesn't make you stupid. It means a planet isn't doing its proper job for you. You've talked about some of the creative ways to work around that, and they are there. But in my experience, the debility will show up somewhere, either in the house where the debilitated planet is, or in the houses it rules.

Cheers.

byjove
09-29-2015, 08:18 AM
^^^

Birch Dragon just illustrated in poetic motion and intelligence, the higher octave of Mercury's gifts in Pisces. I couldn't have put it better myself. I felt the poetry and symphony in that construction. :)

Oddity, as for fall and detriment, the sad truth is, it's clear to me that many astrologers believe that M in P natives are in fact idiots. I've come across more critical laughs, jokes and this:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31548

than I have with any more detrimented placing. Why is that, I wonder?

I've said it before, I've never seen that view with the Sun in fall in Libra natives. Are they incapable or stupid? Of course not.

I found this in my opening post:

"Although Mercury is in detriment in Pisces, this position does not impair intelligence. It merely suggests that the mind resists the rule of pure logic and refuses to be pinned down to hard facts..."

http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Planets%20Through%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20Though%20the%20Signs/Mercury%20in%20Pisces.htm

Another eloquent quote:

Mercury is also in its fall in this sign, showing that ultimately criticism and analysis must be dissolved in compassion, thereby making love rather than intellect the guiding principle of life.

Oddity
09-29-2015, 08:44 AM
I don't think so. The vast, vast majority of astrologers around practise modern astrology, and have no truck with such dodgy ideas as detriment, fall, or God forbid, malefics! They say much worse things about traditional astrologers (purveyors of doom that they see us to be) than they do about people with Mercury in Pisces.

Or okay, someone wants to feel superior (astrologers with powerz, sadly they are around) and says that whatever is debilitated is representative of how YOU are defective. Not always the case. It can be, sometimes, but those planets in exaltation and rulership can be pretty snotty to deal with, too. Especially when someone's regaling you with stories of how spiritually evolved they are because of that, you peon-who-will-reincarnate-as-roadkill-you.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Planets in detriment and fall are working against their own natures. Again, there are some creative work-arounds. Go look at Arthur Ashe's chart for a prime example.

But that only goes so far - unless there are some serious mitigating circumstances, there will be problems in the areas of life the planet rules in your chart. That does not necessarily mean that you're doing something wrong, though you may be, because none of us is perfect. Sometimes it's just a horrible series of circumstances because the planet can't bring about good.

I know that's a difficult concept in modern astrology, where the worst things that can happen to you are only 'challenging', but real life - it doesn't work that way.

Birch Dragon
09-29-2015, 12:56 PM
^^^

Birch Dragon just illustrated in poetic motion and intelligence, the higher octave of Mercury's gifts in Pisces. I couldn't have put it better myself. I felt the poetry and symphony in that construction. :)"

byjove, you're a wonderful human being with astoundingly good taste!!! (If I could find a winking emoji face I'd stick it in here.) I've always enjoyed your posts and the threads you create...


Mercury is also in its fall in this sign, showing that ultimately criticism and analysis must be dissolved in compassion, thereby making love rather than intellect the guiding principle of life.

Super well quoted!!!
For me, this quote has serious resonance, the likes of which I can't begin to get into...

Birch Dragon
10-01-2015, 04:51 AM
Thanks Oddity.
And I realize we won't agree on this - which is fine - but I just can't help myself to point out...

It means a planet isn't doing its proper job for you. You've talked about some of the creative ways to work around that, and they are there. But in my experience, the debility will show up somewhere, either in the house where the debilitated planet is, or in the houses it rules.

This is exactly what I'm trying to suggest against. I'm not suggesting that I've had to work around a Mercury that isn't doing it's proper job. I'm suggesting that my Mercury is great in Pisces. It analyses. It synthesizes. It's logical. It's poetic. If the proper job of Mercury is only two of these four, than I want a Mercury that can do its proper job and more...
Of course, as always, ultimately this discussion would have to be about the whole chart... But as a person who makes their career on their mind, I wouldn't trade my Mercury in Pisces for any other option put on the table. :smile:

Lunachic
02-02-2016, 04:24 AM
I have mercury in the 11th house at 16 degrees pisces and I have fun doing maths but I guess that's mostly because I love my math teacher . . . I'm also not too shabby at these maths things (unless I'm doing it totally bizarre and not using logic at all . . . ) I do prefer using creativity a lot more than logic though, but I like using logic to show that I can do it and that I'm not a total wacko . . . like, I've got a brain hEllo

david starling
02-02-2016, 05:27 AM
Yeah, I have Merc. mid-Pisces (in H1). Impatient with rules and formulas, but I can follow and use them if necessary. I prefer original-thinking to rote. One person's character-flaw is another's valuable character-trait!

katydid
02-02-2016, 06:33 AM
Mercury separates, sorts, divides, contests. It destabilises things, or tries to.

Jupiter tries to pull it all together and see the big picture. It tries to stabilise things.

They're both important for critical thinking, but they just don't work well in each other's houses.

As for Mercury and the double bullet - there's a wonderful mythological explanation here: https://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2006/09/26/the-horoscope-of-the-world/

WOW. That really resonates with me. I am always trying to figure out one of the strongest aspects in my chart.

Jupiter/Taurus in the 12th, conjunct the ASC, exactly opposed Mercury in Scorpio.

This Mercury/Jupiter opposition has a lot to do with my urge to study astrology which began when I was only 13 or so. It was like I needed to find a way to understand the complexities of the Universe. :innocent:

david starling
02-03-2016, 04:56 AM
Mercury keeps it moving. Pisces can use that! So can its back-to-back ally, Virgo. Mercury tells Virgo "that's perfect enough, at least for now". Jupiter was the Sky god, armed with the lightening Trident of power. So he controlled the entire atmosphere of Earth. Mercury was his messenger, controlling the Wind, which keeps the atmosphere kinetic.

"Make Your Mind a Flute"

Make your mind a flute
In it you will find wooden plugs
When these are uncorked, wind will blow through your head
Making many notes.
[Chameleon Gubudu]

Mind-blowing--what a concept!

JUPITERASC
03-31-2016, 07:10 PM
Mercury keeps it moving.
Pisces can use that!


Pisces is a mutable sign and therefore already changeable
so does not require Mercury to "keep it moving" :smile:



So can its back-to-back ally, Virgo. Mercury tells Virgo "that's perfect enough, at least for now". Jupiter was the Sky god, armed with the lightening Trident of power. So he controlled the entire atmosphere of Earth. Mercury was his messenger, controlling the Wind, which keeps the atmosphere kinetic.

"Make Your Mind a Flute"

Make your mind a flute
In it you will find wooden plugs
When these are uncorked, wind will blow through your head
Making many notes.
[Chameleon Gubudu]

Mind-blowing--what a concept!

david starling
03-31-2016, 07:53 PM
Pisces changes slooowly. In today's fast-paced world, a little pick-me-up comes in handy. Kind of like a strong cup of coffee to to get you going! But still, better late than never.:lol:

Julia Karmic Astrology
03-31-2016, 08:17 PM
Ask me anything.

I have a Pisces stellium, NN, Sun, Merc, Moon in the 6/7h.
And to give it all it kick, born on the same day as a solar eclipse.
Thank goodness I have a Virgo Asc.

JUPITERASC
03-31-2016, 08:29 PM
Ask me anything.

I have a Pisces stellium, NN, Sun, Merc, Moon in the 6/7h.
And to give it all it kick,
born on the same day as a solar eclipse.
Thank goodness I have a Virgo Asc.


Pisces stellium highlights natal Jupiter... so which sign is your natal Jupiter :smile:

JUPITERASC
03-31-2016, 08:31 PM
Pisces changes slooowly.
In today's fast-paced world, a little pick-me-up comes in handy.
Kind of like a strong cup of coffee to to get you going!
But still, better late than never.:lol:


Pisces is a mutable sign requiring scant encouragement to change :smile:

Julia Karmic Astrology
03-31-2016, 09:16 PM
Pisces stellium highlights natal Jupiter... so which sign is your natal Jupiter :smile:

I tend to think of myself as Neptunian, but yes of course I should consider
Jup which is 8 h Aries.

JUPITERASC
03-31-2016, 09:50 PM
I tend to think of myself as Neptunian,
but yes of course I should consider
Jup which is 8 h Aries.


Aries Jupiter brings us to Aries ruler Mars & a solar eclipse that ticks all those boxes
could mean that your natal Mars is in domicile in traditional Scorpio :smile:
and natal Sun is near enough 5 degrees Pisces

Julia Karmic Astrology
03-31-2016, 10:45 PM
Aries Jupiter brings us to Aries ruler Mars & a solar eclipse that ticks all those boxes
could mean that your natal Mars is in domicile in traditional Scorpio :smile:
and natal Sun is near enough 5 degrees Pisces

My Mars in is Scorpio and Sun is 6 degrees Pisces.
3h Mars is inconjunct Jup in Aries, which has been known to get me in trouble.
I think you are giving me an answer on why. :(

JUPITERASC
03-31-2016, 11:34 PM
My Mars in is Scorpio and Sun is 6 degrees Pisces.
3h Mars is inconjunct Jup in Aries,
which has been known to get me in trouble.
I think you are giving me an answer on why. :(


Methinks your natal Aquarius Mercurys ruler
is an Exalted Saturn in 2nd Whole Sign house :smile:

david starling
04-01-2016, 04:51 AM
Pisces is a mutable sign requiring scant encouragement to change :smile:

Actually, I said Merc. keeps it MOVING, not "changing". But, of all the Mutables, Pisces is slowest to change-over to anything new.

JUPITERASC
04-01-2016, 12:22 PM
Actually, I said Merc. keeps it MOVING, not "changing".
But, of all the Mutables, Pisces is slowest to change-over to anything new.


Nevertheless Mutables signs ARE changeable :smile:

Julia Karmic Astrology
04-01-2016, 02:28 PM
Methinks your natal Aquarius Mercurys ruler
is an Exalted Saturn in 2nd Whole Sign house :smile:

Geesh, I guess this is why my Saturn is too big for his britches and get me into trouble. :sideways:

On a karmic level this is kind of neat, Saturn is Lord of Karma, and a master teacher. And moving it to the 2h means it is a karmic gift in this life. I am glad he has chosen a comfortable place in my chart. :)

JUPITERASC
04-01-2016, 06:39 PM
Geesh, I guess this is why my Saturn is too big for his britches and get me into trouble. :sideways:

On a karmic level this is kind of neat, Saturn is Lord of Karma, and a master teacher.
And moving it to the 2h means it is a karmic gift in this life.
I am glad he has chosen a comfortable place in my chart. :)


'karma' means 'action'
and actions have consequences

Saturn is the Lord aka domicile ruler of Capricorn and Aquarius

Main Rulerships of 2nd House :smile:
Resources, material comforts, earnings
and all issues concerning wealth or of a financial nature.
Personal goods and belongings, assets, income, gain, money lent to others,
profit (or loss when afflicted), support and assistance from others http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h2.html

david starling
04-01-2016, 07:28 PM
The more I look at it, the more it seems the concept of rulership at all doesn't fit into the modern schemata. Not a criticism. An observation.[/QUOTE]

Oddity, I think it's logically the reverse: Modern Rulership doesn't fit into the Traditional schemata. Your question seems to be: Does Modern Rulership HAVE a schemata of its own (or at least one you can personally relate to).
Leaving that question aside for now, Mercury in Pisces brings Mercury into contact with Piscean Rulership (whether it's Jupiter, Neptune, or both). If it's Neptune, and we associate one's "thought-process" with Merc., there would be a preference for the Big Picture, the forest first, THEN the trees, in that context. Jupiter is expansive and goal-oriented, and would bring greater clarity; still Big Picture, but less imaginative and more fact-oriented than Neptune. Together, not a bad combination! But, I see your point--the terms dignities and disabilities are Traditional, so Neptune, whatever its virtues as a Ruler of Pisces, doesn't fit this Forum, even though it's in keeping with the Thread from a Modern perspective. Maybe this Forum should be included in the Trad. category?

JUPITERASC
04-01-2016, 08:47 PM
The more I look at it,
the more it seems the concept of rulership at all
doesn't fit into the modern schemata.
Not a criticism. An observation.




Oddity, I think it's logically the reverse:
Modern Rulership doesn't fit into the Traditional schemata.
Your question seems to be: Does Modern Rulership HAVE a schemata of its own (or at least one you can personally relate to).

Leaving that question aside for now,
Mercury in Pisces brings Mercury into contact with Piscean Rulership (whether it's Jupiter, Neptune, or both).
If it's Neptune, and we associate one's "thought-process" with Merc., there would be a preference for the Big Picture, the forest first,
THEN the trees, in that context.




So...
is Pisces the day-house or the night-house of Neptune?

What gender is Neptune?

Which sect?

Where are its other dignities?

The more I look at it,
the more it seems the concept of rulership at all
doesn't fit into the modern schemata.
Not a criticism. An observation.



Jupiter is expansive and goal-oriented, and would bring greater clarity;
still Big Picture, but less imaginative and more fact-oriented than Neptune.
Together, not a bad combination!
But, I see your point--the terms dignities and disabilities are Traditional,
so Neptune, whatever its virtues as a Ruler of Pisces, doesn't fit this Forum,
even though it's in keeping with the Thread from a Modern perspective.
Maybe this Forum should be included in the Trad. category?


Modern astrologers claim that Neptune "is co-ruler of Pisces"
Neptune was noticed 23 September 1846 approximately 170 years ago

traditional astrology has Jupiter as ruler of Pisces for at least two thousand years :smile:
traditionally then
each native with Mercury in Pisces differs
dependent on the sign and house location as well as aspects of natal Jupiter

david starling
04-02-2016, 05:35 AM
Mods do take the position of the Sign-ruler of the Sign a Planet is in as important. For example: Sun in Pisces, Neptune (Ruling Pisces) in Sagitarius, which is Ruled by Jupiter; the Piscean members of the "Neptune in Sagittarius Generation" differ from one another based on Jupiter's Sign and House location, Neptune's House location, and the Aspects to both Planets. But not much attention generally paid to whether Neptune ( for example) is in any way "afflicted" (a term which is sometimes used in Modern Astrology) by being in a particular Sign, in this case, Sag. [So far as I know.]

JUPITERASC
04-02-2016, 03:15 PM
Mods do take the position of the Sign-ruler of the Sign a Planet is in as important.

a moderator shall correct me if necessary....
Moderators position is that the entire forum is GENERAL ASTROLOGY

with the EXCEPTION of the MODERN ASTROLOGY BOARD
and the TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY BOARD


hence
so far as Moderators are concerned
any member whether following Modern OR Traditional methodologies
may comment on ANY thread on any board of our forum

UNLESS

a member wishes to focus on a STRICTLY MODERN METHODOLOGY
for that we have the STRICTLY AND SOLELY MODERN ASTROLOGY BOARD

or

alternatively
a member wishes to focus on a STRICTLY TRADITIONAL METHODOLOGY
for that we have the STRICTLY AND SOLELY TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY BOARD

as a consequence
discussion with respect to any and all astrological methodologies
including Vedic, Chinese, Ancient, Modern, Uranian, Sidereal, Tropical, et al
is permissible on this thread for example
BECAUSE
this thread is posted on GENERAL ASTROLOGY board


For example: Sun in Pisces, Neptune (Ruling Pisces) in Sagitarius, which is Ruled by Jupiter;
the Piscean members of the "Neptune in Sagittarius Generation"
differ from one another based on Jupiter's Sign and House location,
Neptune's House location, and the Aspects to both Planets.

therefore
the foregoing comment you made regarding Pisces

is discussable on this thread from a multiplicity of different perspectives

and and/or all of which may be mutually exclusive :smile:


i.e.
Sidereal Pisces
Tropical Pisces
Modern Pisces
Traditional Pisces



But not much attention generally paid to whether Neptune ( for example) is in any way "afflicted"
(a term which is sometimes used in Modern Astrology)
by being in a particular Sign, in this case, Sag. [So far as I know.]


"Affliction" is a traditional term, approximately two thousand years old
often descriptive of planetary Dignity and Debility
and so

since none of the recently discovered planets appear on the following dignities table
many modern astrologers discount/ignore the concept of "Affliction"




http://gregoryrozek.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/GregoryRozek-astrological-tables-01.png

david starling
04-02-2016, 06:26 PM
Since modern Tropical Astrology is rooted in tradition, much of the terminology is traditional. Some designa tions have changed, but retain the same meaning, such as Moveable/Cardinal, and Common/Mutable. Terms such as Barren and Fruitful seem to have been dropped altogether. The awareness that Virgo has similarities to the "Aiery" Signs in the Trad. category "humane", with human figures, including a woman holding the Libran scales isn't noted as such, but the modern key-words for the Signs has "I analyze" for Virgo, which does seem to group it with the Air-signs as a Sign of Thought.
Back in the 1960's "affliction" was bandied about in one way only: It referred to a Ruler being in the Sign opposite the one it Rules. I suspect a reluctance to refer to Aquarius as an "afflicted" Sun-sign caused a gradual decrease in its useage. But as far as I know, once the Outer Planets were accorded Rulership, the terms "Dignities and Debilities" had to be considered no longer applicable, without the Traditional Rulership schemata.

JUPITERASC
04-02-2016, 07:22 PM
Since modern Tropical Astrology is rooted in tradition,


Exactly

much of the terminology is traditional.

while modern astrology may well retain some traditional terminology
neverthelesss
modern astrological practice
rejects much that is traditional astrological methodology


Some designations have changed,
but retain the same meaning,
such as Moveable/Cardinal, and Common/Mutable.

the following highlights the modern astrological slant on the above comment :smile:

'.....In modern texts
they are usually referred to as the cardinal signs
- a term used to highlight their seasonal importance,
the word itself meaning 'something of primary significance'........ Deborah Houlding


TRADITIONAL Cardinal / moveable Signs
Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn.

These are so named because the Sun's entry into these signs marks the beginning of the new seasons.
In the northern hemisphere: the Sun into Aries marks the beginning of spring
the sun into Cancer marks the beginning of Summer
the Sun into Libra marks the beginning of Autumn
and the Sun into Capricorn marks the beginning of Winter.

These signs are associated with action, movement and change
- they are opposed to the stable quality of the fixed signs.
Traditionally they are termed the moveable signs
because they bring change and create inconstant conditions. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/cardinals.html

JUPITERASC
04-02-2016, 07:34 PM
Terms such as Barren and Fruitful seem to have been dropped altogether.
The awareness that Virgo has similarities to the "Aiery" Signs in the Trad.
category "humane", with human figures, including a woman holding the Libran scales isn't noted as such,

a clear departure from traditional methodology there then


but the modern key-words for the Signs
has "I analyze" for Virgo,
which does seem to group it with the Air-signs
as a Sign of Thought.

not quite :smile:


'.....Virgo is the house of Mercury, feminine, winged, anthropomorphic, luxurious
standing like the figure of Justice, bicorporeal, barren, a freedman,
with no offspring , downward-trending, earthy, common, semi-vocal or mute
concerned with the body, incomplete, changeable, industrious, two-natured.
Men born under this sign are noble, modest, religious, burdened with care, leading a quite varied life
administrators of others ’ goods, trusted, good stewards, secretaries, accountants
actors, practitioners of curious arts and seekers after mystic lore,
spendthrifts in their early years but prosperous later in life....' THE ANTHOLOGY by Vettius Valens
FREE ONLINE translation from original Ancient Greek - by Professor Riley http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf

JUPITERASC
04-02-2016, 07:40 PM
Back in the 1960's "affliction" was bandied about in one way only:
It referred to a Ruler being in the Sign opposite the one it Rules.
I suspect a reluctance to refer to Aquarius as an "afflicted" Sun-sign caused a gradual decrease in its useage.
But as far as I know, once the Outer Planets were accorded Rulership,
the terms "Dignities and Debilities" had to be considered no longer applicable, without the Traditional Rulership schemata.


IF interested to explore various forms of astrological "afflication"
then
check out INTRODUCTIONS TO TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY by Benjamin Dykes http://www.bendykes.com/ita.php
an invaluable reference and resource guide for students of all levels,
whether working solo or taking a course,
whether fully traditional or a curious student of modern astrology :smile:
suitable for Hellenistic, Medieval, Renaissance and 17th Century astrology alike. Preview the Table of Contents (http://www.bendykes.com/pdfs/ita/ita-contents.pdf)

Waki
08-20-2016, 02:16 PM
What wonderful, enriching thread for any Mercury in Pisces, like myself!

Julia's Mercury was originally in Pisces, not in Aquarius, that's why she joined the thread I guess. So the whole discussion about her chart turned strange, at least to me! Still her Jupiter, ruler of Pisces, has the inconjunct from Mars, and oppositions from Saturn and to some extent Neptune, which may explain some difficulties she hinted at.

I can join the hordes who claim Mercury in Pisces can be brilliant, with my IQ of 135 and ease at learning more or less anything, including sciences and academic levels for scientific peer reviewed publications. Yet my Mercury does not have any dignitity whatsoever, by rulership, triplicity, term, decan, medieval or antique. It's not receiving any nice aspect from any benefic. It's retrograde and very slow (was stationnary less tht 2 days before my birth). It's stupid? No.
Doomed? Hmmm, yes.

It's ruler, Jupiter is in detrimental Virgo without any dignity either, also retrograde and no good aspects from anyone.

Now these two are in exact opposition. About 30 minute of orb. You may say mutual reception, but every astrologer (save those born with exuberant Jupiter) seem to say that it's useless since none of them has any goody to offer to the other.

And yet my Piscean Mercury rules my Virgo MC, and 10H Pluto and Uranus, and also rules my 7h/DC Gemini Moon. He squares her (and receives her). He is the Almtuen Figuris of my chart, the one that has the most power over key points. But he has no power over itself!

I cannot say such wonderfully empathic, intuitive, poetic, spiritual, quick learner Mercury brought any fortune or chance to my MC or 7H matters and I am in my late 40s. Nope. Too mutable to start with (and the Mutable T-square with Virgo Jupiter and Gem Moon doesn't help), never happy very long a the same job, so did not build any career, and also making me a nit restless, nervous like (I could blame Uranus too). And then, I don't know why but there I am in my life. No dignities and a bunch of debilities does really not seem to help.

So I would agree with Oddity.
The workarounds are there, you may even be a genious, but unless you have a very strong Jupiter (and add Neptune if you like, as an extra) and strongly supportive aspects, the areas (houses) your Mercury rules may not be in good shape at all.

Now of course there are many other planets and houses and aspects so that is not the ultimate end of it. Soemtimes retrograde planets are said to be late bloomer so lets meet when I am in my 60s if this ever happens!

Now, why is my Mercury smart?
Maybe because he is in H3? Yes, could be, especially with my Sun also H3 (a bit far in 18 Aq).
Because, after all, he is in tight aspects with Jupiter in Virgo and Moon in Gemini? Most welcome to say that.
But at this stage of my life I wish I could get rid of its power over my life, I want to invest in areas that are not Mercurial. Piscean okay (I have a strong Neptune conjunct the ACS, which seem to indicate Neptune is not the primary ruler of my Piscean Mercury, or else, my MC and Moonish matters would be thriving!)

Does this make sense?

Waki
08-20-2016, 04:26 PM
What a wonderful, enriching thread for any Mercury in Pisces, like myself!

BTW Julia's Mercury was originally in Pisces, not in Aquarius, that's why she joined the thread I guess. So the whole discussion about her chart turned strange, at least to me! Still, her Jupiter, ruler of Pisces, has the inconjunct from Mars, and oppositions from Saturn and to some extent Neptune, which may explain some difficulties she hinted at.

I happily join the hordes who claim Mercury in Pisces can be quite brilliant, with my IQ of 135 and ease at learning more or less anything, including sciences at academic levels for scientific peer reviewed publications. Yet my Mercury does not have any dignitity whatsoever, by rulership, triplicity, term, decan, medieval or antique. It's not receiving any nice aspect from any benefic or anyone else for the matter. It's even retrograde and very slow (was stationnary less that 2 days before my birth).
It's stupid? No.
Doomed? Hmmm, ehm yes.

It's ruler, Jupiter is in detrimental Virgo without any dignity either, also retrograde and no good aspects from anyone.

Now these two are in exact opposition about 30 minute of orb. You may say mutual reception, but every astrologer (save those born with exuberant Jupiter) seem to say that such mutual reception is useless, since none of them has any goody to offer to the other. Too bad! (But I can only agree, since as you see, my Jupiter is not exuberant)

And now, my Piscean Mercury rules my Virgo MC, and 10H Pluto and Uranus, and Mercury also rules my 7h/DC Gemini Moon. He squares her (and receives her). He is the Almtuen Figuris of my chart, the one that has the most power/dignity over the key points. But in itself, it has no power over itself!

I cannot say such 'wonderfully empathic, intuitive, poetic, spiritual, quick learner' Mercury brought any great fortune or thriving to my MC or 7H matters, and I am in my late 40s, I would have had noticed. Nope. I have published papers, books, I am an acclaimed speaker and also translator in some limited circles, and yet it's actually leading me nowhere, strangely enough.
I think it's far too mutable, to start with (add the Mutable T-square with Virgo Jupiter and Gem Moon... doesn't help), i.e. never happy very long a the same job, so did not build any career, and also making me restless, nervous like (oh I could blame Virgo Uranus too, and its opposition from Mars, but Mutable Mercury, square Gemini mmon, don't even need Uranus I think).
And then, I don't know why but there I am in my life --no major sense of fulfilment, and no outstanding career by today's standards, despite few nice things here and there that I can show or boast about which yet seem to not reflect what I appear to be today.

No dignities and a bunch of debilities does really not seem to help.

So, I would 100% agree with Oddity and his/her traditional view repeated many times above. :w00t:

Yes the workarounds can be there, you may even be a genious like Darwin, but unless you have a very strong Jupiter (and add Neptune if you like, but only as an extra --more below) and some strongly supportive beneficial aspects, the areas and houses your Mercury rules may not be in good shape at all. At least, thriving is not the word, in my case. So if you hold the chair in a a University with a Piscean Mercury, I bet your Jupiter is full of dignities! Birtch, how is your Jupiter?

Now of course there are many other planets and houses and aspects in a chart, so a Mercury in Pisces like mine --no dignities at all and a bunch of debilities--- is not the ultimate end of it. Sometimes retrograde planets are said to be late bloomer so let's meet when I am in my 60s :bandit:, if this ever happens! But my intuition makes me doubt, if ever I find MC and H7 fulfillment, that these will be typically Mercurial. I suspect the Piscean Mercury will only color it, not really shape it. I don't know.

Now, most important question, why would my Mercury 'officially' smart?
Maybe because it is in H3?
Yes, could be, especially with my Sun also H3 (a bit away, in 18 Aq).
and then, Jupiter is in H9. traditionnally thought, these are poor cadent houses thta add very little value to their fate. Yet there must be some effect?

Or because, after all, Mercury is in tight aspects with Jupiter in Virgo and Moon in Gemini? Most welcome to say that. Both Moon and Jupiter deal with thinking too. And needless to say Virgo and Gemini must contribute their qualites, depsite the nature of the hard aspects.

But at this stage of my life I somehow wish I could get rid of this natural influence over my vocation and partnership patterns. Of course I want to remain smart and intuitive but invest in areas that are not Mercurial. Piscean okay (I do have a quite good strong Neptune conjunct the ACS in Scorpio, which seem to indicate Neptune is not the primary ruler of my Piscean Mercury ---or else, my MC and H7 Moonish matters would be thriving!). I am lookin towards Venus, Mars, Saturn. Any alternative!

Does this make sense?

Waki
08-20-2016, 04:48 PM
What a wonderful, enriching thread for any Mercury in Pisces, like myself!

BTW Julia's Mercury was originally in Pisces, not in Aquarius, that's why she joined the thread I guess. So the whole discussion about her chart turned strange, at least to me! Still, her Jupiter, ruler of Pisces, has the inconjunct from Mars, and oppositions from Saturn and to some extent Neptune, which may explain some difficulties she hinted at.

I happily join the hordes who claim Mercury in Pisces can be quite brilliant, with my IQ of 135 and ease at learning more or less anything, including sciences at academic levels for scientific peer reviewed publications. Yet my Mercury does not have any dignitity whatsoever, by rulership, triplicity, term, decan, medieval or antique. It's not receiving any nice aspect from any benefic or anyone else for the matter. It's even retrograde and very slow (was stationnary less that 2 days before my birth).
It's stupid? No.
Doomed? Hmmm, ehm yes.

It's ruler, Jupiter is in detrimental Virgo without any dignity either, also retrograde and no good aspects from anyone.

Now these two are in exact opposition about 30 minute of orb. You may say mutual reception, but every astrologer (save those born with exuberant Jupiter) seem to say that such mutual reception is useless, since none of them has any goody to offer to the other. Too bad! (But I can only agree, since as you see, my Jupiter is not exuberant)

And now, my Piscean Mercury rules my Virgo MC, and 10H Pluto and Uranus, and Mercury also rules my 7h/DC Gemini Moon. He squares her (and receives her). He is the Almtuen Figuris of my chart, the one that has the most power/dignity over the key points. But in itself, it has no power over itself!

I cannot say such 'wonderfully empathic, intuitive, poetic, spiritual, quick learner' Mercury brought any great fortune or thriving to my MC or 7H matters, and I am in my late 40s, I would have had noticed. Nope. I have published papers, books, I am an acclaimed speaker and also translator in some limited circles, and yet it's actually leading me nowhere, strangely enough.
I think it's far too mutable, to start with (add the Mutable T-square with Virgo Jupiter and Gem Moon... doesn't help), i.e. never happy very long a the same job, so did not build any career, and also making me restless, nervous like (oh I could blame Virgo Uranus too, and its opposition from Mars, but Mutable Mercury, square Gemini mmon, don't even need Uranus I think).
And then, I don't know why but there I am in my life --no major sense of fulfilment, and no outstanding career by today's standards, despite few nice things here and there that I can show or boast about which yet seem to not reflect what I appear to be today.

No dignities and a bunch of debilities does really not seem to help.

So, I would 100% agree with Oddity and his/her traditional view repeated many times above. :w00t:

Yes the workarounds can be there, you may even be a genious like Darwin, but unless you have a very strong Jupiter (and add Neptune if you like, but only as an extra --more below) and some strongly supportive beneficial aspects, the areas and houses your Mercury rules may not be in good shape at all. At least, thriving is not the word, in my case. So if you hold the chair in a a University with a Piscean Mercury, I bet your Jupiter is full of dignities! Birtch, how is your Jupiter?

Now of course there are many other planets and houses and aspects in a chart, so a Mercury in Pisces like mine --no dignities at all and a bunch of debilities--- is not the ultimate end of it. Sometimes retrograde planets are said to be late bloomer so let's meet when I am in my 60s :bandit:, if this ever happens! But my intuition makes me doubt, if ever I find MC and H7 fulfillment, that these will be typically Mercurial. I suspect the Piscean Mercury will only color it, not really shape it. I don't know.

Now, most important question, why would my Mercury 'officially' smart?
Maybe because it is in H3?
Yes, could be, especially with my Sun also H3 (a bit away, in 18 Aq).
and then, Jupiter is in H9. traditionnally thought, these are poor cadent houses thta add very little value to their fate. Yet there must be some effect?

Or because, after all, Mercury is in tight aspects with Jupiter in Virgo and Moon in Gemini? Most welcome to say that. Both Moon and Jupiter deal with thinking too. And needless to say Virgo and Gemini must contribute their qualites, depsite the nature of the hard aspects.

But at this stage of my life I somehow wish I could get rid of this natural influence over my vocation and partnership patterns. Of course I want to remain smart and intuitive but invest in areas that are not Mercurial. Piscean okay (I do have a quite good strong Neptune conjunct the ACS in Scorpio, which seem to indicate Neptune is not the primary ruler of my Piscean Mercury ---or else, my MC and H7 Moonish matters would be thriving!). I am lookin towards Venus, Mars, Saturn. Any alternative!

Does this make sense?

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-20-2016, 05:53 PM
How about my Mercury in Pisces?

I have a Virgo Asc, so Mercury is my chart ruler.
Mercury is part of my Pisces stellium: NN, Sun, Merc, Moon in Pisces.
All in 6th house, except the Moon which straddles the 6/7h.
The Pisces stellium is a part of my grand water trine, stellium is trine Uranus in Cancer (10h),
and Mars in Scorpio (3h). There was a total solar eclipse of the sun on the day of my birth.
It was in 5 degrees Pisces which is conjunct my Stellium.

My Jupiter is in Aries (8h) which is aspected to my Mars in Scorpio.

I would say that I am reasonably intelligent. By no means a genius.
Successful career wise with advanced degrees in the social sciences.
Easily picked up spiritual and esoteric topics: astrology, reiki, past life regressions,
mediumship, clairvoyance, etc.

But in general terms, life on this planet seems difficult, like navigating in mud.
The rules don't always make sense and seem to hamper my functionality.
I like this forum, there are enough rules to make it a safe and orderly place to work.
But enough elbow room and breathing space to function in an optimal way.

Julia

Waki
08-20-2016, 06:59 PM
Apologies for multiple posting. My internet kept disconnecting so it looked like I did not post whenever I tried and did i try!

Julia I would say life on this planet is difficult for many of us these days. Statistics regarding severe mental illness are rocketing. In the US it's somewhere between 2 and 3 people out of 4 currently!
You need a very powerful Jupiter\Sag in order not to feel it.
And Pisces Mercury is sensitive so there is no way to avoid it but maybe
attuning more to the ultimate perfection --the spiritual Pisces. So we are in the right place!
Yet the pain from compassion will be there.
I think your Mercury is overall well balanced.☺

vanessanz
08-20-2016, 10:40 PM
What a wonderful, enriching thread for any Mercury in Pisces, like myself!

I happily join the hordes who claim Mercury in Pisces can be quite brilliant, with my IQ of 135 and ease at learning more or less anything, including sciences at academic levels for scientific peer reviewed publications. Yet my Mercury does not have any dignitity whatsoever, by rulership, triplicity, term, decan, medieval or antique. It's not receiving any nice aspect from any benefic or anyone else for the matter. It's even retrograde and very slow (was stationnary less that 2 days before my birth).
It's stupid? No.
Doomed? Hmmm, ehm yes.

It's ruler, Jupiter is in detrimental Virgo without any dignity either, also retrograde and no good aspects from anyone.

Now these two are in exact opposition about 30 minute of orb. You may say mutual reception, but every astrologer (save those born with exuberant Jupiter) seem to say that such mutual reception is useless, since none of them has any goody to offer to the other. Too bad! (But I can only agree, since as you see, my Jupiter is not exuberant)

And now, my Piscean Mercury rules my Virgo MC, and 10H Pluto and Uranus, and Mercury also rules my 7h/DC Gemini Moon. He squares her (and receives her). He is the Almtuen Figuris of my chart, the one that has the most power/dignity over the key points. But in itself, it has no power over itself!

I cannot say such 'wonderfully empathic, intuitive, poetic, spiritual, quick learner' Mercury brought any great fortune or thriving to my MC or 7H matters, and I am in my late 40s, I would have had noticed. Nope. I have published papers, books, I am an acclaimed speaker and also translator in some limited circles, and yet it's actually leading me nowhere, strangely enough.
I think it's far too mutable, to start with (add the Mutable T-square with Virgo Jupiter and Gem Moon... doesn't help), i.e. never happy very long a the same job, so did not build any career, and also making me restless, nervous like (oh I could blame Virgo Uranus too, and its opposition from Mars, but Mutable Mercury, square Gemini mmon, don't even need Uranus I think).
And then, I don't know why but there I am in my life --no major sense of fulfilment, and no outstanding career by today's standards, despite few nice things here and there that I can show or boast about which yet seem to not reflect what I appear to be today.

No dignities and a bunch of debilities does really not seem to help.

So, I would 100% agree with Oddity and his/her traditional view repeated many times above. :w00t:

Yes the workarounds can be there, you may even be a genious like Darwin, but unless you have a very strong Jupiter (and add Neptune if you like, but only as an extra --more below) and some strongly supportive beneficial aspects, the areas and houses your Mercury rules may not be in good shape at all. At least, thriving is not the word, in my case. So if you hold the chair in a a University with a Piscean Mercury, I bet your Jupiter is full of dignities! Birtch, how is your Jupiter?

Now of course there are many other planets and houses and aspects in a chart, so a Mercury in Pisces like mine --no dignities at all and a bunch of debilities--- is not the ultimate end of it. Sometimes retrograde planets are said to be late bloomer so let's meet when I am in my 60s :bandit:, if this ever happens! But my intuition makes me doubt, if ever I find MC and H7 fulfillment, that these will be typically Mercurial. I suspect the Piscean Mercury will only color it, not really shape it. I don't know.

Now, most important question, why would my Mercury 'officially' smart?
Maybe because it is in H3?
Yes, could be, especially with my Sun also H3 (a bit away, in 18 Aq).
and then, Jupiter is in H9. traditionnally thought, these are poor cadent houses thta add very little value to their fate. Yet there must be some effect?

Or because, after all, Mercury is in tight aspects with Jupiter in Virgo and Moon in Gemini? Most welcome to say that. Both Moon and Jupiter deal with thinking too. And needless to say Virgo and Gemini must contribute their qualites, depsite the nature of the hard aspects.

But at this stage of my life I somehow wish I could get rid of this natural influence over my vocation and partnership patterns. Of course I want to remain smart and intuitive but invest in areas that are not Mercurial. Piscean okay (I do have a quite good strong Neptune conjunct the ACS in Scorpio, which seem to indicate Neptune is not the primary ruler of my Piscean Mercury ---or else, my MC and H7 Moonish matters would be thriving!). I am lookin towards Venus, Mars, Saturn. Any alternative!

Does this make sense?


Hi Waki, just wanted to say i find your commentary really interesting. Our Mercuries have quite a few similiarities & my experience has overlaps with yours....
I have Mercury in Pisces 3rd house. It's part of a T-square with Neptune [Apex of T-square & stationary] in 12th house Sag. It's also opposite Moon conjunct MC in Virgo [Conjunction is 1 degree & opposition 5 degrees]
Mercury is also trine Uranus in Scorpio 11th [2 degree orb] & Uranus is part of a grand trine with Venus & Mars
Mercury is exactly inconjunct Pluto in 10th
Mercury is the depositor of my chart
I also have Pluto in my Virgo 10th house & an exact midpoint of Uranus / MC = Pluto
I have a fairly strongly placed Jupiter & Neptune has hefty emphasis in my chart
So my Mercury is mainly debilitated, but with the redemption of being in the 3rd house with a close trine to a very positive Uranus.

I've also got the kind of brain that absorbs any learning very fast & intuitively. In school i was always in the top decile. I do struggle with maths though, and while my brain is very fast at grasping things intuitively, i also have a very random memory & i don't often have the staying power for really indepth mastery of a subject [too restless....] I do have a very visual brain & find it effortless to visualize spatial creative stuff....

Hope this might help you to corroborate your understanding...

david starling
08-21-2016, 05:18 AM
Hi Waki, just wanted to say i find your commentary really interesting. Our Mercuries have quite a few similiarities & my experience has overlaps with yours....
I have Mercury in Pisces 3rd house. It's part of a T-square with Neptune [Apex of T-square & stationary] in 12th house Sag. It's also opposite Moon conjunct MC in Virgo [Conjunction is 1 degree & opposition 5 degrees]
Mercury is also trine Uranus in Scorpio 11th [2 degree orb] & Uranus is part of a grand trine with Venus & Mars
Mercury is exactly inconjunct Pluto in 10th
Mercury is the depositor of my chart
I also have Pluto in my Virgo 10th house & an exact midpoint of Uranus / MC = Pluto
I have a fairly strongly placed Jupiter & Neptune has hefty emphasis in my chart
So my Mercury is mainly debilitated, but with the redemption of being in the 3rd house with a close trine to a very positive Uranus.

I've also got the kind of brain that absorbs any learning very fast & intuitively. In school i was always in the top decile. I do struggle with maths though, and while my brain is very fast at grasping things intuitively, i also have a very random memory & i don't often have the staying power for really indepth mastery of a subject [too restless....] I do have a very visual brain & find it effortless to visualize spatial creative stuff....

Hope this might help you to corroborate your understanding...

I have Merc Conj. The Asc. in H1. Thoughts are important to me, and I'm always looking for new information (Moon in Aqua). What kind of spatial creativity interests you?

Waki
08-21-2016, 08:34 AM
Hi Vanessa
Yes there are many similarities between our Piscean Mercuries. With H3 and also hard aspects to Moon and Neptune and Virgo.
Yours not only benefuts from a trine but also has a strong Jupiter ruling over it. Two big differences compared to my Mercury.

I am also very visual and my easiest and funniest leraning in maths was geometry.

I have no difficulty going indepth if i like the topic. Maybe my Sco rising with a strong angular H10 Pluto help.

My restlessness is more general or even medical. I am faithful to friends and some stuff in my life but otherwise quite on the move.

How do you express your H3 Mercury in the field of communication and exchange? Are these things important, succesful, fulfilling?

For me thet quite define me. But i also have H3 sun. But i can be very solitary and silent too if i so decide. Abd this happened often. It's just that socializing talking writung etc are easy to me. I am a birn communicator.

Waki
08-21-2016, 08:35 AM
oops so many typos!
writing from a small phone...

vanessanz
08-21-2016, 11:05 AM
Hi Waki

Yes, expressing myself is also easy for me, although it is definitely subtle communication that i'm most interested in - things poetic, visual, psychological.
I have the chart of an all-rounder, but also with a highly mutable Pisces emphasis.
[Cap rising, Pisces Sun in 4th, Pisces Mercury & Venus in 3rd, Stationary Neptune in 12th very tightly square MC / Moon in Virgo]
I'm empathetic at a level that verges on dysfunctional if i'm not careful, & the way i think i tend to absorb infomation quite intuitively & fast. When i'm learning a subject like astrology, i am reading widely, but at least half my brain is kind of tuned into absorbing subtle connections & making leaps on a feeling level to join dots. My memory for anything non-visual is appalling! I also multi-task constantly.
By contrast, my best friend has Mercury in Scorpio, exactly sextile Jupiter in 3rd.
He has the kind of mind that masters absolutely every detail of a topic on both a macro & micro level if he's interested & will memorize vast amounts of facts. He's quite oblivious in social situations to the subtle signals people give out, that i absorb effortlessly.
Knowing him well has made me realize quite how Piscean my mind is in contrast. We are both very smart, but in quite different ways
I've always been self - employed & have also jumped around a lot - in my 20s i organized dance parties, was a professional artist & lived in a commune by the sea [although did study architecture]. In my 30s i was a property developer specializing in high-end historic renovations. I am very talented at visualizing what things have the potential to be. At 40 i'm living quietly, dealing in antiques, & studying astrology. I'm pretty sure this is just a brief hiatus before i get involved in environmental charity / social change work.....so if it's any consolation i've also had a very restless career track, but i'm not unhappy about it :)

Waki
08-21-2016, 12:53 PM
Hi Waki

Yes, expressing myself is also easy for me, although it is definitely subtle communication that i'm most interested in - things poetic, visual, psychological.
I have the chart of an all-rounder, but also with a highly mutable Pisces emphasis.
[Cap rising, Pisces Sun in 4th, Pisces Mercury & Venus in 3rd, Stationary Neptune in 12th very tightly square MC / Moon in Virgo]
I'm empathetic at a level that verges on dysfunctional if i'm not careful, & the way i think i tend to absorb infomation quite intuitively & fast. When i'm learning a subject like astrology, i am reading widely, but at least half my brain is kind of tuned into absorbing subtle connections & making leaps on a feeling level to join dots. My memory for anything non-visual is appalling! I also multi-task constantly.
By contrast, my best friend has Mercury in Scorpio, exactly sextile Jupiter in 3rd.
He has the kind of mind that masters absolutely every detail of a topic on both a macro & micro level if he's interested & will memorize vast amounts of facts. He's quite oblivious in social situations to the subtle signals people give out, that i absorb effortlessly.
Knowing him well has made me realize quite how Piscean my mind is in contrast. We are both very smart, but in quite different ways
I've always been self - employed & have also jumped around a lot - in my 20s i organized dance parties, was a professional artist & lived in a commune by the sea [although did study architecture]. In my 30s i was a property developer specializing in high-end historic renovations. I am very talented at visualizing what things have the potential to be. At 40 i'm living quietly, dealing in antiques, & studying astrology. I'm pretty sure this is just a brief hiatus before i get involved in environmental charity / social change work.....so if it's any consolation i've also had a very restless career track, but i'm not unhappy about it :)

Hi Vanessa
Thanks for sharing
I know what you mean with the empathy. I have Mercury and Mars (and Chiron) and IC in Pisces with Neptune on Asc and it's as if i can read minds and live in others' shoes. Sometimes I seem to be much more aware than the people themselves about whats happening within them. It's a boundary pb too. i cry if someone cries and laugh if someone laughs! Quite funny. And when i talk with someone with an accent i reply with the same.
Now i think my insight into people's mind and hearts is Scorpio Neptune on As sextile Angular Pluto. Pluto/scorpio can see deep, below surfaces. Not always nice as I tend to see the negative much more than anything else!
I am surprised the Scorpio Mercury of your friends does not privide him with a sense of psychology and relating to others feeling. Scorpio is water ans senses things well. Some impediment must be there with Mercury or Scorpio? Maybe his Venus is also lacking sensitivity? Just guessing...

Being an architect and dealing with old buildings and antiques suggests that the ruler of your Cap AC and maybe whole chart is Saturn fonctionning very well and spporting your voocation, right?

You did not tell yet about your Jupiter place; he is the ruler of all your Piscean planets and Sun...,

Would be good to explore the photographic /visual memory and learning process. Could it be the Combo of Virgo and Pisces we both have? When I memorize spontabeiusly data from printed material, like a text in a book page, i retrive it by visualising the page. I know where is what. If i am given the same data or text in another layout it does not match and my memorisation proves quite useless. Thats funny too.
Unfortunately my eyesight is decreasing fast these days. Too much screens... I am learning eyes yoga. Whether it works or not i cannot tell but it does feel good.

vanessanz
08-21-2016, 10:22 PM
Hi Waki

My natal chart is hopefully attached.
Jupiter is in 5th house Aries [highly creative & entrepeneurial.] It's further strengthened by sextiles to Venus & Mars. It's conjunct Chiron [still figuring out meaning of that].
But Jupiter has a very tight square to Saturn in 7th Cancer [debilatated chart ruler]
When i was younger, this square certainly meant i was raised in an extremely conservative religious family, which i struggled with. I also had serious lack of self- confidence until i was 28, & was dysfunctionally shy [Now i'm fairly bomb proof about confidence & public speaking under pressure, but it's come at a high cost].
Still working out what this square means at this point in my life.
Saturn in Cancer must have something to do with interest in old things.[My brother has the same Cap rising, Saturn in Cancer & interest in antiques & heritage restoration]
My POF is also in Cancer & almost exactly sextile Moon / MC. The north node also trines MC closely. I have an exact midpoint of Uranus / MC = Pluto [in 10th]. Along with the very tight Neptune square. I'm figuring these are all the main players in shaping my career.

Interesting that we have similiarities with visual memory. I always put my spatial / visual ability down to my Venus trine Uranus, but perhaps it's more the Neptune / Moon / Mercury combo. I'm highly sensitive to colour, and read it on a level that is kind of subtle vibration. I also have a very good sense of rhythm, but not a good sense of pitch.
Even when i'm calculating numbers, i'm actually visualizing them in my head...[might be why i'm no good at complex maths:)]

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-23-2016, 02:20 PM
Hi Vanessa,

Would be good to explore the photographic /visual memory and learning process. Could it be the Combo of Virgo and Pisces we both have? When I memorize spontabeiusly data from printed material, like a text in a book page, i retrive it by visualising the page. I know where is what.

I have this ability as well. In college I could bring up information in my mind by seeing the pages of the textbook. My visual memory was excellent, almost photographic.

I am a Pisces Sun, Mercury, Moon. With a Virgo Asc so Merc is my chart ruler.
Part of a grand water trine.

I have always had constant pictures in my head, and assumed others did as well.
It was not until adulthood that I found out most people don't have these pictures in their heads, like a TV set always running.
Geesh. Hard for me to imagine that.

Julia

sibylline
08-23-2016, 04:23 PM
I have this ability as well. In college I could bring up information in my mind by seeing the pages of the textbook. My visual memory was excellent, almost photographic.

I am a Pisces Sun, Mercury, Moon. With a Virgo Asc so Merc is my chart ruler.
Part of a grand water trine.

It may not be Merc in Pisces because I have this, as well as auditory memory where I can recall whole conversations. I have Sun in Pisces but Merc in Aqua opposite Asc.

I have always had constant pictures in my head, and assumed others did as well.
It was not until adulthood that I found out people don't have these pictures like a TV set always running. Geesh.

Now I don't have a running TV in my head. My thoughts move far too quickly to play a TV show or music video for me. :lol:

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-23-2016, 06:24 PM
I have Merc Conj. The Asc. in H1. Thoughts are important to me, and I'm always looking for new information (Moon in Aqua). What kind of spatial creativity interests you?

Astrology is is spatial, visual, creative.

Julia

vanessanz
08-23-2016, 10:45 PM
Hi Julia

I'm curious - with Mercury / Moon in Pisces & a grand water trine, do you constantly 'merge' with other peoples thinking / feeling? If you do, how conscious are you of doing it?

I still can't quite comprehend that other people's brains may not be processing things in the same visual / empathetic way :)

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-24-2016, 12:48 PM
It may not be Merc in Pisces because I have this, as well as auditory memory where I can recall whole conversations. I have Sun in Pisces but Merc in Aqua opposite Asc.

I don't have a good auditory memory at all.
And I am not an auditory learner either.
In college I had to immediately make written notes of lectures, to make it visual.

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-24-2016, 02:03 PM
Hi Julia

I'm curious - with Mercury / Moon in Pisces & a grand water trine, do you constantly 'merge' with other peoples thinking / feeling? If you do, how conscious are you of doing it?


Hi Vanessanz:

This is probably like asking other people how often they use their eyes and are they aware of doing it. :)

I would say that I am aware of other people on a number of levels, but not doing it at all consciously. It has alway been there. As a child I was quite frustrated with other people, who didn't see or feel what I was picking up. I did not understand it at all


I still can't quite comprehend that other people's brains may not be processing things in the same visual / empathetic way :)

I know. I remember the exact time I realized that other people were wired differently.
I was an adult, talking to a close friend of mine, asking her about her pictures in her head, and she looked at me oddly, saying she had no running pictures in her head. I was dumbfounded. I asked some other friends the same question, and they all replied that they had no pictures in their heads. And they did not feel the feelings and thoughts of others.
So there it was.

Waki
08-24-2016, 07:41 PM
This rings a familiar bell...
For me and my Neptune on the rising point in Scorpio, on top of the strong Pisces, it took me astrological studies to hear that actually other people do not perceive what I perceive.

And this elucidates many things but does not change the situation - which is a bit strange because I am usually not attracted to and surroundded by Water people.

I find them to ungrounded or/and emotional or deluded and this is a bit repulsive to me possibly because I have these traits too but also a lot of Air and Earth.

End result is that I love this thread and discussion and suspect my Pisces Mercury was a bit socially isolated! 😂

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-25-2016, 12:21 PM
This rings a familiar bell...
For me and my Neptune on the rising point in Scorpio, on top of the strong Pisces, it took me astrological studies to hear that actually other people do not perceive what I perceive.

HI Waki!

This is one of the reasons I fell in love with astrology. It explained everything for me in terms of my inner functioning compared to others. And why I felt like a fish out of water for most of my life.


This elucidates many things but does not change the situation - which is a bit strange because I am usually not attracted to and surroundded by Water people.

I find them to ungrounded or/and emotional or deluded and this is a bit repulsive to me possibly because I have these traits too but also a lot of Air and Earth.

This is quite interesting Waki. I am the same way, my close friends are all air, fire or earth stelliums. It is so odd that way. But then they have one placement identical to mine, such as a Pisces Moon or Mars in Scorpio.

The result is that I love this thread and discussion and suspect my Pisces Mercury was a bit socially isolated! 😂

Yes I think that Pisces feels isolated in the mainstream western culture. It is only in certain places where it is safe and even accepted to show our water sides. :)

Julia

Antigone
08-25-2016, 03:24 PM
I don't have a good auditory memory at all.
And I am not an auditory learner either.
In college I had to immediately make written notes of a professors lectures, to make it visual.

This statement applies to me as well, if I want to learn and remember things, I have to write them down, and once I write things down, I can actually visualize them. I don't think it's photographic memory, because I have to write it down first.

Waki
08-25-2016, 04:06 PM
Hi Julia,

Thank you again for your friendly words!

This is one of the reasons I fell in love with astrology. It explained everything for me in terms of my inner functioning compared to others. And why I felt like a fish out of water for most of my life.

Yes, I too love astrology for that and because it taught me how we can be so different form one another, and nearly live in different worlds. Humanity is incredibly rich and complex from that perspective too, in a way that psychology or genetics don't approach... Can you imagine how an Aries or Leo Mercury processes information? I can't! I can of course put Mercury + Aries together in my thinking and come with "= this combo", but in real life, these people are too different. And it goes on and on for each and every planet, and house, and their aspects. It's really enriching. It also explains so well why we can enrich each other so well, when and if we have some ways to connect. And the opposite is true. It's teaching tolerence from another angle.

And why I felt like a fish out of water for most of my life.


Or like a fish in the ocean watching them on the dry shore?:wink:

I guess it's the same for you as or me? I feel at home with poetry and mysticim...

I had a dream this morning when i was told like, "by the way stop wondering and erring, Neptune Rising in your chart is your power/identity/strength". It was very clearcut and obvious. I took good note when I woke up.

I know Neptune is fantastic, but it is also not very easy. it's present transit on my IC is a bit weird. It's not really painful but it matches absolutely no social expection regarding MC and performance matters! I have no reference to simply accept wht it happening, all references say, move on, get more things done, need to shine.

my close friends are all air, fire or earth stelliums. It is so odd that way. But then they have one placement identical to mine, such as a Pisces Moon or Mars in Scorpio.


I think I need people that can help me not be too spaced out in ideals (my Aquarious Sun), mysticism, and empathy. I find squares boring, but I need them and appreciate them. I have very little fire in my chart, so i guess i need somebody else to complement me. Complementarity is a beautiful way to work too.

Mars in Scorpio sounds great. Must be very intense ? But the gentle Pisces Moon must ensure it's not harming but serving, right?

My rising Scorpio Neptune is trine my Pisces Mars, o they are in each other sign and seem to offer a lot. I love it, it's a very spiritual combo, though I sense I could use Mars more actively to make this trine more dynamic. I am not sure how to do that. One pb is the H4 mars --I am not a home body and not interested in home matters! The actual problem I guess is that Pisces Mars H4 is tightly opposed Rx Pluto H10.

Astrology tells me there is something crucial to work on in this opposition to get its full juice, but astrology cannot do the work for me! :biggrin: Frankly this is a big piece in Pisces --a challenge I hope i can take.

I think that Pisces feels isolated in the mainstream western culture. It is only in certain places where it is safe and even accepted to show our water sides

Being with artists. Joining grand prayers and rituals that connect to the Divine for the elevation of all life. Pilgrimages to powerful sacred places... In such siutation I feel at home, alive, powerful!

Waki
08-25-2016, 04:18 PM
I don't have a good auditory memory at all.
And I am not an auditory learner either.

I am certainly more visual than auditory but cannot say I am really bad with auditory memory and can't learn through sounds. It seems I am still above average in these matters.

I am for sure much more gifted in visual arts -- I can draw a faithful portraits in minutes-- than in music. If the melody is too complex and I need to, say, sing it, I may have trouble with a few notes, but my mind knows, "this is not the right note" which is frustrating because my voice will not produce it. But with practice I overcome it. And again I am good with spoken languages, and accents, and conversations, etc. Maybe the H3 does that? H3 also covers oral/aural, right?

Did you notice there is a new thread called "the problems of mercury in Pieces"? Let's swim there and get a visual look!

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-25-2016, 05:37 PM
This statement applies to me as well, if I want to learn and remember things, I have to write them down, and once I write things down, I can actually visualize them. I don't think it's photographic memory, because I have to write it down first.

Photographic memory is the ability to look at something, short exposure, and then be able to recall it with a high degree of accuracy.

The act of writing it down also serves as a learning method, tactile along with the visual. I have several cousins with phenomenal memories, so it is likely a inherited trait. My own memory is now more average as I have aged and slowing sinking into below average!

I also had another weird memory ability which I lost after having a grade three concussion to my right temporal lobe some years back. This memory was a long term facial memory or also called a super recognizer. No matter how a person's face changed by age or methods of disguise, I could immediately recognize the person. This was fun to use when watching a movie with an actor who had changed considerably and no one else could guess who it was. Otherwise a fairly useless trait! It is gone now, and I have no idea what part of the chart would signify this trait.

david starling
08-25-2016, 05:46 PM
HI Waki!

This is one of the reasons I fell in love with astrology. It explained everything for me in terms of my inner functioning compared to others. And why I felt like a fish out of water for most of my life.



This is quite interesting Waki. I am the same way, my close friends are all air, fire or earth stelliums. It is so odd that way. But then they have one placement identical to mine, such as a Pisces Moon or Mars in Scorpio.



Yes I think that Pisces feels isolated in the mainstream western culture. It is only in certain places where it is safe and even accepted to show our water sides. :)

Julia

I attribute the isolation I feel as well, to the Astrological Age influence. Back in the late 60's, I responded wholeheartedly to the Aquarian-age concept (not surprising with Moon and Venus in Aqua), but couldn't relate at all to the Sidereal Age of Pisces that accompanies it. With a current Piscean Age, I should have felt right at home with mainstream culture, not alienated from it. It also bothered me that I was learning Tropical, and taking to it like a fish to water, but the Sidereal Age-indicator itself is the 1st point of Tropical Aries, and therefore can't give us a Tropical reading for the Ages. Switching to the Sidereal only for Ages, then back to Tropical didn't make sense to me. The reason there IS such a thing as Ages is because of a Terrestrial influence in everyone's Chart, and I needed to know what is in a Tropical Chart. It was possibly Mercury in Pisces that enabled me to set convention aside, and hypothesize a Tropical-age method no one else had bothered to look for, and to explore the theory. End result, it's the Tropical-age of Capricorn, including Direct-motion, so that explains why the Aquarian-age is up next Tropically as well (the familiar Sidereal Ages have Retrograde-motion). I can easily see and feel mainstream Western culture as Capricornian, and therefore too cold and materialistic for an Aquarian-Piscean Chart to identify with and feel "right" about. The Ages are about what our home-Planet is like for us, and in my well-considered opinion it's just not a Piscean Environment. No agreement necessary, I'm just explaining my point of view and sharing potentially useful information to others with Mercury in Pisces.

Julia Karmic Astrology
08-25-2016, 06:19 PM
Hi Julia,

Thank you again for your friendly words!
Yes, I too love astrology for that and because it taught me how we can be so different form one another, and nearly live in different worlds. Humanity is incredibly rich and complex from that perspective too, in a way that psychology or genetics don't approach... Can you imagine how an Aries or Leo Mercury processes information? I can't! I can of course put Mercury + Aries together in my thinking and come with "= this combo", but in real life, these people are too different. And it goes on and on for each and every planet, and house, and their aspects. It's really enriching. It also explains so well why we can enrich each other so well, when and if we have some ways to connect. And the opposite is true. It's teaching tolerence from another angle.

Perfectly stated Waki! :)


Or like a fish in the ocean watching them on the shore?:wink:

This is certainly a better way to look at it, rather than feeling like a fish who has been dragged to dry land. :)


I guess it's the same for you as or me? I feel at home with poetry and mysticim...
I had a dream this morning when i was told like, "by the way stop wondering and erring, Neptune Rising in your chart is your power/identity/strength". It was very clearcut and obvious. I took good note when I woke up.

What a great dream, it is true.
Our dreams often try to speak to us, either from our unconscious or from the Other Side.

I know Neptune is fantastic, but it is also not very easy. it's present transit on my IC is a bit weird. It's not really painful but it matches absolutely no social expection regarding MC and performance matters! I have no reference to simply accept wht it happening, all references say, move on, get more things done, need to shine.

All of the signs and planets have positive and negative traits and energy. We decide how to to manifest the energy in this life.

I think I need people that can help me not be too spaced out in ideals (my Aquarious Sun), mysticism, and empathy. I find squares boring, but I need them and appreciate them. I have very little fire in my chart, so i guess i need somebody else to complement me. Complementarity is a beautiful way to work too.

Yes Aq energy can be far out there, so ahead of the pack. Often the task is to reel it back in a bit so it can connect to the rest of the planet successfully. And yes, most of us state that we are attracted to people with chart energy different from our own natal chart. I think that is one point of reincarnation, to mingle with other energies. Earth is kind of like the bar scene from Star Wars, full of very different type creatures. This is one reason Earth is said to produce such resilient capable souls.


Mars in Scorpio sounds great. Must be very intense ? But the gentle Pisces Moon must ensure it's not harming but serving, right?

Yes thank goodness. My Mars in Scorpio has a booster, in that it is aspected to my Jupiter in Aries. :( This can be a somewhat deadly combination. I try to use it for good, and yes the Pisces energy taps it down. But when I see an injustice or something wrong, I am capable of really nailing someone to the wall quite successfully. :(
I try to not go there.

The other nice benefit to that energy is that nothing of a spiritual nature holds any fear for me whatsoever. Most people talk about fear of the devil, entities, ghosts, negative entities, but I hold not one iota of fear about any of these.


My rising Scorpio Neptune is trine my Pisces Mars, o they are in each other sign and seem to offer a lot. I love it, it's a very spiritual combo, though I sense I could use Mars more actively to make this trine more dynamic. I am not sure how to do that. One pb is the H4 mars --I am not a home body and not interested in home matters! The actual problem I guess is that Pisces Mars H4 is tightly opposed Rx Pluto H10.

Oh that is such a lovely combination, the Scorpio Nep trine Pisces Mars. Gives you spirituality and imagination, scorpio should give mars a boost. Perhaps you want to expand your thinking about 4h matters. This is the place we feel most comfortable, our womb, our safe place. It is the base of our lives which permits us to venture out in the world. I would see the Pisces Mars as indicating a soul who has will and determination rooted in spirituality. And this is your psychological home base so to speak. Something along those lines. And you are getting energy from Pluto and Neptune for your home base. These are power, transformation, spirituality. Keep an eye out for the dark side of all this energy, it is fairly powerful energy and has an under belly. :(

tells me there is something crucial to work on in this opposition to get its full juice, but astrology cannot do the work for me! :biggrin: Frankly this is a big piece in Pisces --a challenge I hope i can take.

I agree, there is something you are meant to do with this powerful energy. But yes, you are the one who has to do it. It is said that our guides would never let us come into this incarnation with a natal chart we could not handle.

Being with artists. Joining grand prayers and rituals that connect to the Divine for the elevation of all life. Pilgrimages to powerful sacred places... In such siutation I feel at home, alive, powerful!

That is your base, you can see it in your chart. And you are answering your own question about how to do all of this.

Julia

bhnikola
08-30-2016, 05:15 AM
Has anyone seen this documentary called Life 2.0? It's documenting a few people who spend their realities on virtual world Second Life.
For some reason the entire documentary just screams mercury in Pisces. The married woman who left her husband for her second life lover- especially. I found it super interesting (merc in virgo)
Anyway all the people in the video have such a character about them it was hard not to watch and think about the astrology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUwD7u7wwcY

david starling
08-30-2016, 05:56 AM
Has anyone seen this documentary called Life 2.0? It's documenting a few people who spend their realities on virtual world Second Life.
For some reason the entire documentary just screams mercury in Pisces. The married woman who left her husband for her second life lover- especially. I found it super interesting (merc in virgo)
Anyway all the people in the video have such a character about them it was hard not to watch and think about the astrology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUwD7u7wwcY

Maybe a combination of Neptune transiting Natal Mercury Conj. NN in Pisces in H12!:andy:

Julia Karmic Astrology
09-01-2016, 02:07 PM
Maybe a combination of Neptune transiting Natal Mercury Conj. NN in Pisces in H12!:andy:

Thank God my Natal Mercury conjunct NN in Pisces is in the 6th house.
I am only in a psychotic fog half the time. :)

Julia