Has anyone tried this?

I'm wondering if anyone has ever conducted any experiments with putting the planets for the team around the chart for the game?

This would be the easiest way to differentiate between charts that are identical, as in Frawley's famous snooker tounament example.

Seems like a very obvious thing to do, but I don't recall seeing anyone working on it. But then I don't read all the posts.

Regards,

Bob

assuming that you feel confident that you have a valid 'team chart', then this makes sense to me and i would look to see which team is better aspected by the transiting planets or game chart in forecasting a winner.
hard aspects to saturn are frustrating, esp from mars, altho this team may be able to outmuscle its opponent.
how are your results going?

IF you mean not using the Lord's of the ASC/DSC and MC/IC but rather using a planet which fits some aspect of the team, then I have a little but didn't get reliable results. It may work on random games but if you put it against every soccer game kicking off on a Saturday in England at 3PM, then it doesn't hold up. This tells me it doesn't work.

I find Frawley's argument about snooker invalid. One thing is games of snooker are usually played in sessions, so perhaps we could use different charts for the different sessions? Another is that while I use a certain method for prediciting soccer matches, I'm sure that a much different one could be used for snooker as it is an individual sport. This means we can use their birth-charts and a chart for the start of the game to see who it favours. In team games, I think there are too many participants to do this.
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sometimes it can be helpful to analyze a chart for the projected ending time of a game or match and see how it stacks up against some of the participants in a game. for team sports you may try using the coach's birthdate, as this is usually published on wikipedia. individual sports are simpler for this method, as konrad said.

Shawn and Konrad:

I think you're taking Frawley's example too literally. The point he was trying to make is that if you have several events starting at the same time, then the game chart method breaks down because all the charts are the same.

I conducted a few experiments with game charts + team charts, and the results were not very promising. This is really very interesting when you think about it. As I believe I said in my first post, basic Astrology 101 would suggest that there should be contacts between the charts of the players (2, in a snooker or pool tournament) and the game. If there aren't, then one has to wonder why. A chart for the end of the game would be useful, but we often don't have an accurate fix on the end of game time, as in baseball, so that wouldn't work.

One thing I experimented with extensively, and which is just one step removed from putting the team planets around the game chart, is forming composite or Davison charts for the team and the game. The charts are very energetic, but after a great deal of work I decided to abandon the effort because the charts seem to lack predictive power. There is clearly something 'going on' in the charts, but I was never able to figure out just what it was.

It's curious, but it seems that any effort that involves the use of the game chart ends in some degree of muddle. OTOH, my efforts in working with progressed and regressed aspects to the team charts are slowly but surely converging toward a workable method. Or methods, as I have several. But that's another story.

Bob

I disagree I'm taking it too literally, I was highlighting the fact that Frawley tends to explain away anything he can't work out, for example, I remember him saying that if you do a chart for a game kicking off at 17.30 in England (it has been moved for TV coverage) that the game behaves as if the chart was for 15.00 (the traditional kick-off time). That notion is ridiculous.

As for game charts all kicking off at the same time. I'd say you've not done enough if you're not seeing anything in them. I do at least 25 a day and I can see patterns between colours, fixed stars, placements on the angles and the Moon's aspects. I'll say it again: the key to it is to realise that not every team starts equal. If Saturn is stronger than the Sun in the chart, then of course not every black team will win but you will notice the teams who don't, have performed better than they were expected. If youtake your mind out of the equation and just watch what happens on the field of play in comparison to what is happening in the sky at that moment, you will see patterns emerge.
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Well, if you can do 25 charts a day I'll tip my hat to you! Unfortunately for me, I am deficient in Virgo and don't have the patience to sit and stare at sheets of paper all day. I'm intrigued with the technical problem of cracking the code, but somewhat lacking in the application of the method.

I agree with you that the teams are not equal, and I have the same problem with that type of game that you do. Team A is inferior to Team B, but has the stronger chart. So what to do? In baseball it's a problem because one has to pick the winner, whereas in basketball one can take the points and go with the dog and possibly win even if the team looses.
Only answer in baseball is to stick with games where the odds are fairly even.

Bob

To be honest, I've not experimented much with other sports - a little rugby and basketball - but, from what I've seen, my way of doing it is quite specific to soccer. There aren't many goals in a soccer game, so it is much easier to predict winners and ties and, in most games, it is quite possible for either team to win.

I have realised over the last five months that even if we come up with a system to predict every game, the accuracy of the predictions are still at the mercy of the skill of the astrologer. It's unfortunate that there will never be a cut and dry method.
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sports astrology is a maddening topic for those who wager to forecast winners. don't get me started! what we all wouldn't give for something reliable! my guess is that i would have better results using the horoscope of the coach to predict his team's fate during a game, than i would with any sort of 'team chart' measured against the backdrop of the sky at the projected end of game time. i am laying low myself and, hopefully i will build a bankroll in time for the NFL and college football season. i like to use charts of the coach and qb of each team, usually based only on their date of birth, as this is all we have in most cases. i do have the timed charts of some NFL coaches and qb's that i got from my friend, courtney. you should check out her sports astrology research at www.courtneyrobertshome.com. i have better results, naturally, with the ones i have timed data for, mostly because i can track the midheaven. if it is to be angular at the end of the game, then he will likely win.

Shawn, I don't know much about American Football but is the game result quite dependant on what each team's QB does?
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Konrad:

I think your method would work with hockey, as it is also a low-scoring game. I believe that here in the US they no longer have ties. I think that if the game is tied at the end there is a tie-breaking shot on goal. I wonder if that would introduce an element of luck into the game, and if the charts would show that.

A nice thing about hockey is that the length of the game is pretty well-defined, as is the starting time. As a consequence, if we look at the progressed or transiting angles at the end of the game, which is really what we're interested in, we should know very accurately where they are.
This is irrelevant for Konrad's method, but for Shawn or me it is very important. I believe this condition exists also for non-American soccer.

I looked at the times for some American soccer games, and found that the length of the game varried by no more than ±5 minutes (good), but the starting times were all over the place. Apparently they schedule the starting time at, say, 1:00 pm, and then they have a pre-game show of indeterminate length before the game starts!

Konrad, you were talking about the skill of the astrologer. One problem I have with my method is that I have a number of aspects which are in effect (more or less, depending on the orbs) at about the time the game ends, but I don't really know what the aspects mean as far as the team is concerned, except that some aspects seem to indicate the team is 'up' for the game (Mars, for example), and others that suggest they are flat (Venus). It would be nice to have a way to learn just what effect each aspect had on the team. I've tried reading accounts of the game, but all I get from that is that they either got it done or they didn't. As to what effect each aspect had, I have no clue.

Have you had this problem, and do you have a solution?

Bob

Shawn:

I wish there was a way to post a reply to your post directly, rather than just tack it on the end of this thread, but I guess there isn't.

I would like to conduct an experiment with you. As you know from our earlier exchanges, I think there is a big flaw in Roberts' method in that you have to use the charts for a couple of dozen players, the coach, waterboy, etc., etc., when what we really want to know is whether the team will win. So I'd like to see you apply your/her method to a team chart, just to see how it works.

I have the actual birth data for the Mets, and I also have the timed chart for their first game this season, so we could use both charts. I'll pick a nice game, say an upset, as they usually stand out pretty clearly, and we can use the actual end time of the game, so there is no uncertainty there. I'd be very curious to see how your method works on a team chart. If it works well, I can go into New York City to the library and look up the actual birth data for the teams I don't have. Or perhaps we'll discover (as I suspect) that the chart for this years' first game works just as well.

Are you willing to spend a few minutes on an experiment?

I'll do an analysis using one of my methods, just for comparison.

Bob

To answer your question about the QB: he is the key player on the offense. But remember that the offense and defense are completely separate teams in football.

Bob

hey bob, if you can post the charts on this forum, then we can look at them together.

I'll pick a game or two this weekend. I found out how to post a chart to the forum, so that's a problem solved.

Bob