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Arian Maverick
07-02-2006, 11:50 PM
This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:


Venus exerts rulership over Taurus and Libra
Venus is exalted in Pisces


Debility:

Venus is in its detriment in Scorpio and Aries
Venus is in its fall in Virgo


Arian Maverick

Manic_Monday
07-05-2006, 12:58 PM
I think there are arguments to discuss the Venus in Leo placement. She's the goddess of love, wealth and sensuality. Leo loves love, wealth, sensuality and all the things that make you look good.

ShadowRain
07-10-2006, 08:37 PM
MM - could be, could be. Ultimately it's such a vast amount of knowledge that one could make an argument for any of the planets in any of the signs and be able to put a decent defence together. Now that could be an interesting experiment - see whether we could make a case of each planet being in dignity or debility in each of the signs. If nothing else, it would make for some really bizarre ideas :)

By the by, does anyone know why the dignities and debilities have been assigned as they are? What was the yard stick used to measure it ... or is it something that we've just taken from the ancient practice as is without question?

Arian Maverick
07-11-2006, 01:37 AM
By the by, does anyone know why the dignities and debilities have been assigned as they are? What was the yard stick used to measure it ... or is it something that we've just taken from the ancient practice as is without question?

ShadowRain,

I am inclined to share your viewpoint that these matters should be understood and investigated thoroughly, yet tonight I discovered an article (http://www.sabian.org/15points.htm) about sabian symbols that changed my mind:

The justification for a use of these symbolical degrees is that they work. Here is something that baffles people. I remember the story in the Bible of the boy who was cured of blindness. The learned people came to him and said it was impossible. It just didn't happen. The "medical books" said it couldn't be done that way. This, of course, is my own version of the story! The young man in the Bible narrative, who was a simple sort of fellow, remarked: "What you say is very interesting. You are learned gentlemen. I am convinced you are very clever, and know much more than I do. However, all I know is that once I was blind, and now I see." We won't go into a discussion of the symbolical degrees, but content ourselves with the fact that they are something that works.

Arian Maverick

pisceskitty
07-16-2006, 06:17 PM
My Venus is in Pisces, in the 5th house. Venus is also the ruler of my Asc. Unfortunately I have that Venus of mine squaring my Saturn in Gemini in the 8th! My Venus Sextiles my N.node in Capricorn in the 3rd, and Trines my S.node in Cancer in the 10th.

Radu
07-16-2006, 07:12 PM
Venus exalted in the 5th... no wonder you titled one of your recent threads "Sexy, passionate, juicy... (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2265)" ;)

Mine is in Libra and the 11th house and I go much for the artistic part of it... I have two sites on love-related stuff (poetry and so) one in Romanian (http://www.dindragoste.ro) and the other one in French (http://www.amour.ro).

pisceskitty
07-16-2006, 07:23 PM
Wow..Radu that sounds lovely! A hopeless romantic like myself will be sure to check those out!:)

SunMoon
01-30-2007, 11:31 PM
My Venus is in Scorpio, in the 5th house. D = In detriment?...
I've always heard Venus in Scorpio was a good thing. Personally i never believed them how can it be good when V in S is a jealous, possessive kind of love? I'M probably just saying this because i also have Saturn in the fifth house also (but in Sag), but i do really believe what i'm saying.
Now, Venus in Pisces, i agree, IS exalted and a fantastic way to love... selfless, sacrificing (as long as it's in a good way), i would love to have Venus in Pisces.

The_Sundance_Kid
05-03-2007, 03:40 PM
The good- Venus in the 12th house, accidentally dignified
The bad- Venus in Scorpio, in detriment
The ugly- Venus conjunct Pluto- I don't want to talk about it

Do you think the house dignity outweighs the detriment? How does a detriment/ dignity combo work, I'm sure lots of you must have some. I see it as a tainted combination. There is much good either on a personal or social sphere and yet alot of pain in the other one. Eg I get lots of compassion for other people and from other people, but lots of pain personally from another person, and I think I probably give pain to another person.

How does this thing operate in your charts?

The_Sundance_Kid
05-03-2007, 03:42 PM
I'm not so sure about the nature of the planet Venus. People seem to associate it with Libra alot more than with Taurus. I see it as more Taurean, and hence as more materialistic. A lover of substance and beauty, relaxation and ease. It is less to do with other people and more to do with the physical world. Hence in Pisces it is exalted as a love of the non-physical- the hardest task for Venus. It is also love of everyone, without fear of being alone- the hardest task for Libra.

moving towards hermes
05-08-2007, 09:56 PM
My Venus is in Scorpio, in the 5th house. D = In detriment?...
I've always heard Venus in Scorpio was a good thing. Personally i never believed them how can it be good when V in S is a jealous, possessive kind of love? I'M probably just saying this because i also have Saturn in the fifth house also (but in Sag), but i do really believe what i'm saying.
Now, Venus in Pisces, i agree, IS exalted and a fantastic way to love... selfless, sacrificing (as long as it's in a good way), i would love to have Venus in Pisces.

I don't like this business of dignities and debilities. It seems deterministic. But I also have Venus in Scorpio -- it is the ruler of my Libra rising horoscope -- and think that you've put your finger on the heart of Venus detriments (if not other debilities as well) -- they create problems with self-image and self-relationship. So maybe with Venus in Pisces you'd feel good about your love nature. I don't know if Pisces Venus actually express themselves with more loving.
Which might correspond to the debility/exaltation stuff coming out of the Arian age.. Can't remember who wrote on that topic, but it made a lot of sense

holly
05-10-2007, 02:48 AM
Now, Venus in Pisces, i agree, IS exalted and a fantastic way to love... selfless, sacrificing (as long as it's in a good way), i would love to have Venus in Pisces.

In theory. Venus in Pisces has made me so helplessly empathetic that there are no boundaries between my reality and anyone else's. Other people's pain and suffering are my pain and suffering. I find it impossible to "switch off" and seperate myself. It's an exhausting way to live.

eonechoes
05-10-2007, 02:46 PM
In theory. Venus in Pisces has made me so helplessly empathetic that there are no boundaries between my reality and anyone else's. Other people's pain and suffering are my pain and suffering. I find it impossible to "switch off" and seperate myself. It's an exhausting way to live.

Same with me. But I also think it's honestly the proper way to live, so it pays off. :D

Mine is in the 10th house squaring my Gem Asc and trining my Sco Pluto. I think it has a lot to do with my inability to consider careers that are not helping the less fortunate. My Mercury is also there and my Sun is in my 11th (both in Pis) so I've decided to write (Mer in 10th) about other people and current events (Sun in 11th) in order to ease suffering for others (Ven in 10th). I think journalism will be fitting, right? :D

As far as relationships are concerned I dive right in. Sometimes before they even fill the pool - not a good idea. ;) But I've had some great relationships thus far and I'm only 18, so you give and take.

Shining Ray
05-10-2007, 05:28 PM
My partner has his Venus in Libra, he had a terrible marriage. Full of lies, cheating, arguments. But his Venus is conjunct Pluto and square to Saturn. I can't see how Venus can feel so comfortable with these aspects even though she is nicely placed by sign. I would think it would make his Venus feel worse being in the sign of Libra and not having a love life which goes smoothly. Venus in Libra needs to be romantic, and loves to be in love. Personally I think he would be much better off having a mean Venus like mine ;) I have my Venus in Capricorn (I need some anti-freeze on this Venus :D .) But I find it works out fine for me, my love life has not been smooth, and I have had plenty of trouble in love, but I am a lot tougher emotionally than my partner.

stellab
05-12-2007, 11:05 PM
I have Venus in Virgo, I guess it's fall? But in the natal it's trine to Jupiter, conjunct Mars and Mercury and MC and if anything I don't find natal Venus in Virgo too troubling or debilitating. Sometimes, it makes me seek perfection in relationships and set high standards, but the aspects to Jupiter, Mars, and Mercury balances much of it out, so I'll give in/surrender happily to what Venus wants! Just from my experience, the aspects really help lift my Venus to a better place. Operating alone, I'm not sure what it would be capable of, but the connections (aspects) it makes natally seems to function pretty well.

Sag Moon
05-12-2007, 11:47 PM
I do not knoww weather I have mentioned it in this thread or another ,but the Benefics can be cut a lot of slack as to their Debilities and Falls as they seem to do good in just about any sign from what I observed.

I have Jupiter in Cap and Ve in Taurus and think that they will find a way of bringing good fortune in whatever sign they are placed. If they are conjoined by a Malefic that is another story altogther.

JMO

Lissa
05-13-2007, 02:19 PM
I have a detrimental Venus in Aries,tightly conjunct the IC and ruling the opposite house(MC in Libra).Venus does have a lot to do with art;my artistic abilites are absolutely non-existent,I can't dance,sing or act and,as for playing instruments,the only thing I can do is play 'Old MacDonald Had A Farm' in my sister's make-believe piano:o ..Needless to say,I never felt lucky in love too,I'm one of those teenagers who feel they're gonna die alone in a house full of cats LOL.On the other hand,Jupiter,the other benefic,is in it's triplicity of Leo,going Retrograde but in an angular house(the7th),which kind of makes up for that badly placed Venus.I can't say I'm unlucky,I've always felt protected my entire life,yet,I never had one of those spectacular life-changing moments that you feel you're going to remember for the rest of your life.So the really dark stuff passes through me without getting me,but the amazingly good things do the same.Anyway I can't complain.

starlink
07-20-2007, 03:42 PM
Hé Lissa, my Venus is also in Aries but in the 5th!!!(Radu, remember passionate, sensual etc.?!) and trine Pluto, ruler of my Ascendant. My Venus is conjunct Mars!!:eek: Talking about LOVE!! I used to fall in love every other day, just terrible. Actually they were more like electrifying attractions .Mars is exactly sextile Uranus in 7.(I was at that time still very much in love with my ex. so I did not follow up on them). I am a Taurus, so I am very loyal, but at those moments I was scared I would do something silly;)
I am not young anymore (in years) but inside I am afraid I will never be old and most certainly not when it comes to LOVE and PASSION!!:sunny:

Sag Moon
07-20-2007, 05:34 PM
I have found that the Benefics seem to are going to give the person good things no matter where they are in the zodiac. It's the aspects that are made to the planet that is going to determine how well the energy behaves.

The Malefics I think are going to create some form of hardship at the same time.

I have Ve=Taurus Ma-Aries Sa=Cap Ju=Cap so 3 or 4 are in their rulerships one in it's Fall.

Lissa
07-20-2007, 05:54 PM
Hé Lissa, my Venus is also in Aries but in the 5th!!!(Radu, remember passionate, sensual etc.?!) and trine Pluto, ruler of my Ascendant. My Venus is conjunct Mars!!:eek: Talking about LOVE!! I used to fall in love every other day, just terrible. Actually they were more like electrifying attractions (I was at that time still very much in love with my ex.). I am a Taurus, so I am very loyal, but at those moments I was scared I would do something silly;)
I am not young anymore (in years) but inside I am afraid I will never be old and most certainly not when it comes to LOVE and PASSION!!:sunny:

This is so funny,I can clearly see myself in your words!I'm kinda boy crazy,when a cute boy crosses my way I start dreaming of him and start thinking about our marriage and how our life together would be-that until a new hot guy crosses my way:p!I'm very loyal too,when a guy shows some interest in me I stick to him and then it gets hard to forget him.

Sag_Moon,interesting what you say about the benefics!Sorry to say it but I don't know if it works though,love is the hardest aspect of my life,everything else is fine but not love,I can rarely get a boyfriend!My current love life is unexistant-all the magic happens in my dreamy Pisces mind.

Claire19
07-21-2007, 01:21 AM
Venus in Leo can mean love of children, drama and performing arts including dance. Can earn money in speculation, the recreational industries, designing gold jewellery for instance.:) Depends on the house and aspects of course. A lover that is Leonine, spends money on wardrobe and hair in particular and tendency to full style in golden hues.

starlink
07-22-2007, 08:37 AM
Claire, my Venus is in Aries but in the 5th, the Leo house. I absolutely adore children (my own and others), my life could not be happy without lots of music and dance, I did lots of theater when I was younger, I paint and made sculptures and was planning to go to a school to learn to design jewelry, but then got engaged and somehow those plans did not come true. Also I dont leave the house unless my hair is looking good!

tsquare
07-22-2007, 11:40 AM
By the by, does anyone know why the dignities and debilities have been assigned as they are? What was the yard stick used to measure it ... or is it something that we've just taken from the ancient practice as is without question?
Im curious too.
Wisdom and true knowlege is knowing the whys behind things.
A history lesson is nice, there is nothing wrong with sharing the wisdom of whoever ploted this out, I dont have it, and I am curious about it.

Knowing how things work is a deffinate plus in life.
Unless we are to be dependent forever on the knowlege or help of others.
That is how great works of art become lost with time.
No one else could write on it cause no one else got the knowledge.
I don't know if the astrologers of old would apreciate me looking to them as if they were the gods themselves expecting me to take everything they say at face value, without any input on my part. To know why would probably be a good achnowledgemet to them as well. I think if they were quite philisophical fellows they would be quite happy knowing the why got allong just fine and wasn't turned into dogma.

It's not to chalenge authority, its to expands one's base of knowledge to see how it is workable. It's to challenge ones self and ones knowledge to find how it is workable, astrology is a science to some degree as well as an art, it is also a philosophy and some could call it a religion being alot of it out there these days is based on belief or revelation. Then it becomes so much easier to use it , in fact.

I believe if one were able to chart these out oneself as someone else did then you'd be a **** good astrologer, you'd probably be the best, with the bare basics and it would be completely simplified for ones self.
Untill then....it's someone else's knowledge, and creativeness as well, not ones own, it's borrowed knowledge, and it may work, but someone somewhere had to know the choice behind determining dignities and debilities.
Even if it does work, what happens if one day it's broke, who's gonna fix it, a dead guy? Should we wait? Do we want to?


If this discussion is going on elsewhere about the origions of Dignities and Debilities please someone PM its whereabouts, I definately would like to take part, this has been eating at me for a while now, and i'd like to get this little misunderstood on my part straitened out. I would like to know a little more on the work of this fellow and Ill never spell it right, Ptolomy?.
French fellow I believe, (guessing.)
I'm sure alot of people have been curious before that have wanted to learn.
The threads probably arround and I just missed it or something.
==============================
Tsquare, Chirion in the 10H
Its my birthday today!:D

Mr. Conjunct
07-22-2007, 01:18 PM
Could somebody tell me what is wrong with having Venus conjunct Pluto? And both are dignified (Venus in Libra, Pluto in Scorpio). Personally I have Venus in Cap conjunct Mercury, but I know a person who has previously mentioned aspect and both planets are in her 4th house.

tsquare
07-22-2007, 02:28 PM
Could somebody tell me what is wrong with having Venus conjunct Pluto? And both are dignified (Venus in Libra, Pluto in Scorpio). Personally I have Venus in Cap conjunct Mercury, but I know a person who has previously mentioned aspect and both planets are in her 4th house.

It would depent upon other aspects aspect as well. A chart would be interesting to see if you could come up it. like are there trines to the ascendent, or oppositions to the midheaven?

Also which House system did you see the conj. in, It's easy to visualize some stuff but without a chart.......

I have a hard time saying if there is anything "wrong" with that aspect.

What is this person like?
Are they like a little detective trying to sort out everyone elses family affairs. Are they extremely pationate about relationships, what about humanitarian interests, but feel they cant do anything about it, do they want to feed the homeless....guesses.

Is there another planet in the house, or are their any oppositions or square's to these planets in conj.

all would make a difference.

If you could find the chart and could post it in the natal section it would be interesting to see.
=========================================
Tsquare

starlink
07-22-2007, 02:54 PM
The aspect on its own shows "being deeply passionate (Pluto) about love (Venus)" This person, especially because both planets are so well placed and therefore very strong in their energy, can have very intens (P.) lovefeelings (V.) for others or can be very dominating in love or needing a hell of a lot of Love, never feeling satisfied. It very much depends on how this conjunction is aspecting other planets, especially personal one's like the Moon, Sun, Mars or Mercury. If there should be a square to Jupiter, everything will be even more accentuated (Jupiter expands everything it touches). So how about giving us your birthdetails? By the way, why should anything be "wrong" with this aspect? Nothing is wrong in astrology. We are talking about energies within a person. These energies can help you to accomplish things or may cause difficulties for the person him/herself when not fully understood or utilized.

Mr. Conjunct
07-22-2007, 05:30 PM
The problem with this person is that nobody is good enough for her. Not to mention her looks. :sunny: She could have had anybody she wanted.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/105/fhfdz8.gif

starlink
07-23-2007, 08:14 AM
Hi Mr.C, I noticed that the conjunction between Venus and Pluto is very very wide (in my humble opinion) and the fact that the planets are in different signs... I do not consider this a strong conjunction or a conjunction at all. I dont know which orbs you have in your program, but look at the square between Mercury and Saturn, that is for me also far too wide (8°). I take for those a 5° and Sun and Moon between 8° and 10° (ingoing only with 9 or 10 degrees). So this "not being good enough" thing is related to her worthsystem (2nd house), the Sun and the square to Saturn in the 5th. Sun rules her second house and is in the 3rd in Virgo, where it can be very critical indeed. Saturn is ruler of the 7th (other people) and positioned in the 5th (potential lovers) and in square with her Sun, clearly showing her criticism towards others and men who try to get into a romantic relationship with her. This issue can be traced back through the ruler of the 5th of selfexpression, romantic endeavors, in the 4th of early upbringing, family tradition. She is not only criticizing others, but herself as well. Look at her Moon, not too happy aspects there and also in Virgo, conjunct her Sun (the Self).

Mr. Conjunct
07-23-2007, 10:49 AM
What about when Jupiter will hit her DESC in late 2008? Will she meet someone?

starlink
07-23-2007, 11:04 AM
Not necessarily so. Jupiter could very well indicate not one, but several potential relationships, but not always of the stable sort. I see something else. Jupiter is ruler of her 6th house of health and when Jupiter gets to her Desc. then it will oppose her Ascendant, her body as it were. So there is a possibility of her getting sick or that she will get problems with her feet (Neptune rules feet). The 6th house also has to do with work. Ruler of her MC is Mars and positioned in the 6th, ruled by Jupiter. So yet another possibility is that she could go into a (career oriented) partnership. Sometimes Jupiter in the 7th means divorce too! The partner wants to "expand", wants freedom, or she herself wants that. All sorts of possibilities here. Never go by certain "rules" saying: Saturn in 5 = bad for love, Jupiter in 7 = marriage or something like that. You must always see those things in the light of the whole chart, other transits and progressions at that same time.

lifeisaprodigy
07-24-2007, 07:10 PM
I have this interesting combination of Venus in Taurus (first house) in opposition pluto in scorpio (7th house).

Both are in their dignities and yet they have trouble recognising each other.

My experience of love life has been like a standard episode of your heightened soap drama.

I believe this configuration ( if anyone has a similiar one) denotes secret love affairs, cheating, jealousy, obsession, revenge and strong bondships between two people.

If anyone can explain it better/further I would be very happy to understand this conflicting configuration. Any remendies would be great!

starlink
07-25-2007, 10:16 AM
Hello Life, is Venus also the ruler of your 12th house by any chance?
What you mentioned is very much Venus-Pluto, all of it is possible. Any combi with Pluto brings an element of fanatism or obsessive behavior and extreme strong (karmic!!) bonds. Secret love affairs are often found by looking at the 12th and 5th house. Ruler of 5 in 12 or vice versa is a classical one. Venus in Scorpio is known for jealousy, so if Venus opposes Pluto, ruler of Scorpio, you can get the same mix.

Mitchatron_5000
08-09-2007, 07:36 AM
Hi Mr.C, I noticed that the conjunction between Venus and Pluto is very very wide

In regards to this, I know it has nothing to do with dignities or disabilities, but the Astrodienst program uses HUGE orbs...I find (actually, I lie, I read it in some other webpage) that reducing the orb to 75% works out nicely, cutting off at about 7 degrees...if you go down to 50%, though it cuts out a lot of aspects, but that's just me. Even with the wide aspects my chart looks rather bare.

To make this post on topic, my Venus is in detriment in Aries in the 11 house with an exact conjunction to Mercury :)

gaer
08-09-2007, 08:45 AM
In regards to this, I know it has nothing to do with dignities or disabilities, but the Astrodienst program uses HUGE orbs...I find (actually, I lie, I read it in some other webpage) that reducing the orb to 75% works out nicely, cutting off at about 7 degrees...if you go down to 50%, though it cuts out a lot of aspects, but that's just me. Even with the wide aspects my chart looks rather bare.

To make this post on topic, my Venus is in detriment in Aries in the 11 house with an exact conjunction to Mercury :)
Any time you cut down the allowed orb in a computer program, obviously the aspects shown will be reduced. :)

Here's the problem: Moon is square to Neptune at just a bit more than 7 degrees. If you limit to 7 degrees, you won't see that. And you may or may not wish to pay attention to that aspect.

However, with that triple conjunction in Aries (Moon, Venus, Mercury), all square to Neptune, I want to keep the Moon in mind. There's a bit of a "theme" there, though the main focus is Neptune to the Venus Mercury conjunction.

You might try looking at your aspects in a slightly different way.

You certainly seem to me to have important aspects that are under 5 degrees in orb. Mars opposes Saturn barely over two degrees orb. And that's just one example. Mercury is only about a minute away from Venus, right?

And Neptune sextile Pluto, only minutes away from being bang on.

Neptune trine Sun, barely over 5 degrees.

That seems pretty interesting and "active" to me. I'd love to know what other people think about all the "Neptune" stuff going on in your chart. :)

Gaer

starlink
08-09-2007, 12:05 PM
Yes, I have noticed also that Astro Dienst uses very wide orbs. I always check myself. When redusing too much you can indeed lose valuable Moon and Sun aspects. They CAN have an orb of up till 8° for squares and 10° for oppositions. So I just decided to leave it the way it is and just check with my eyes the orbs of the other ones

Circe
08-09-2007, 01:26 PM
I have my venus in detriment Aries, and ALSO my mars in detriment taurus!
So I feel looking into myself this is pretty much about myself looking as a boy.
Honestly I`ve never have problems of atracttion but anyway I feel that my behaviour is more like a boy than a girl. This gives me many problems because I always want to have the power in a relationship but feel awful when the other gives up. Like I´m always fighting... anyway, I`m quite loyal and I do lots of sacrifices for love, but my personality grows in a strange way related more like a boy than like a girl. That`s the reason why I really enjoy having fun with my boyfriend but sometimes when I need to feel delicate he feels strange too because he`s not ued to that kind of behavior in me.
Anyway, I think because of this venus ruling both 9th and 4th I ussually see this behaviour is more notable at home and when I express my personal opinions (9th maybe?)

lillyjgc
08-09-2007, 02:10 PM
Hi, With orbs I am starting more and more to reduce them (Except for the outer planets which I allow 5 deg sep and apply. With the moon-a very small orb 3 deg and with points like the vertex within minutes...
At the moment transiting venus/sat are both conjunct my natal pluto in H9 and yes, issues of honour, integrity in knowledge etc are coming up. So is the past which also involves legal issues and matters at a distance for me-so good ole house 9 is getting slammed.
The reason I accept the classical description of dignities and debilities is because they play out so well in horary, providing so much information about the quesited.(and the quesitor for that matter!)
My venus is in scorpio in house 11. I have very loyal friends (perhaps I *require* it of them, but it comes to me). I can hold on to my hopes for longer than most but not in the *obsessive* way that scorpio is often described.I have only good aspects to my pluto and the moon is sextile to my venus,which lessens the intensity (moon in virgo- passion is channelled through healing-also sexual healing.). Of course most of my great loves have been sun in scorpio or scorpio on the ascendant.Scorpio gives endurance and depth.This does describe my friendships well.I am faithful and devoted in love but if I have to, I can break ties with a total severance (not that I have had to do this often).I am also frugal like a scorpio but generous to my friends (venus in H11) and I usually make the gifts I give.
I hope sharing this gives another perspective on the "detrimented" venus/scorpio..(I also keep my feelings to myself regarding relationships like a true scorpio, but I would die for a loved one if it was necessary).Best wishes, Lillyjgc

gaer
08-10-2007, 12:28 AM
Hi, With orbs I am starting more and more to reduce them (Except for the outer planets which I allow 5 deg sep and apply. With the moon-a very small orb 3 deg and with points like the vertex within minutes...

I have a question: Why would you use smaller orbs for aspects involving the moon, for instance?

I'm simply curious. :)

Gaer

lillyjgc
08-10-2007, 01:07 AM
Gaer, Hi, I use smaller orbs for the faster planets..whenthe moon applies to an aspect I feel it is strongest between 3 and 0 degrees and minimal in effect from point of separation... for the sun, also fast, I give 3 or 4 deg orb at most. In natal astrology a wider orb would be understandable but for effect of transits or for horary etc I find most events do actually occur when a planet stations on a point or another planet and is exact.Although the influence of mars sometimes arrives before Mars does by a few degrees. With the slow planets I would give a 5 degree orb at most. I think 10 degree orbs are too generous.
When a planet's speed is less than its average; it therefore moves less through the zodiac than it normally would. This is considered a debility.[

The average daily distances travelled by the planets are as follows:
PLANET Daily Distance Travelled
Sun 59'
Moon 13° 10' 36''
Mercury * 1° 23'
Venus * 1° 12'
Mars 31'
Jupiter 05'
Saturn 02'
Uranus 42"
Neptune 24"
Pluto 15"

Lillyjgc

gaer
08-10-2007, 08:43 AM
Gaer, Hi, I use smaller orbs for the faster planets..whenthe moon applies to an aspect I feel it is strongest between 3 and 0 degrees and minimal in effect from point of separation... for the sun, also fast, I give 3 or 4 deg orb at most. In natal astrology a wider orb would be understandable but for effect of transits or for horary etc I find most events do actually occur when a planet stations on a point or another planet and is exact.Although the influence of mars sometimes arrives before Mars does by a few degrees.

Ah, I should have read more carefully. My own interest has always been almost entirely in natal charts, with emphasis on Karmic Astrology. In my own chart, for instance, using such small orbs I would ignore the conjunction between Sun and Moon in Libra, 10 and 17 degrees respectively, with Neptune in between at about 12 degrees. But I consider that "cluster" very important. It explains a lot about who I am. But all the words in the world can't explain the intuition that takes place as we see patterns and get flashes about things.

I agree with you about applying aspects vs. separating.

With the slow planets I would give a 5 degree orb at most. I think 10 degree orbs are too generous.

I don't like very wide orbs for another reason. For years I have thought that people ignore quintals and biquintals because they are inconvenient to calculate, harder to see. But if you think about it, giving even a 4 degree orb to an inconjunct may give you an angle of 146 degrees, only two degress away from 144, biquintal. Using wide orbs shows all sorts of crosses and grand trines that are extremely sloppy. Things like that.

When a planet's speed is less than its average; it therefore moves less through the zodiac than it normally would. This is considered a debility.

In natal charts, I've always looked at it this way. When considering aspects between slow moving planets, if you use a wide orb, that aspect is going to affect a huge amount of people. That's certainly valid in a sense, since something that affects so many people will have a mass affect, but I like to see such aspects connected to one of the more "personal" planets when thinking about really marked, personal characteristics.

For instance, the fact that Neptune is sextile Pluto in my chart doesn't seem too important to me, by itself. What makes it "personal" is that Neptune is placed between my Sun and Moon, so I think that shows why I have had a lifelong attraction to both "outside exploration" (space travel, for instance) and "inside exploration" (hypnosis, reincarnation, lucid dreaming, Buddhism, astroglogy, and so on).

Sorry to ramble. Hope I did not write too much!

Gaer

lillyjgc
08-10-2007, 09:42 AM
gaer that was very interesting- yes i know what you mean by giving too wide and orb because it then gets close to other aspects..i think quintiles show a lot and could be more used.Hey I have a cluster of planets in Libra too- Sun Mercury Neptune.To me a 10 degree orb could give a berth of 20 degrees-for heaven's sake...The more I do astrology the more I think it is about *Exactness*...Cheers, lillyjgc (moon in virgo right on MC)

starlink
08-10-2007, 10:15 AM
No Gear, in fact, if it is interesting material, it is never a problem if you write long essays! About the inconjunct aspects, I personally never take a larger orb than 2° and for Sun and Moon 3°. In natal astrology I also take smaller orbs for Sun and Moon when transiting but most certainly not when they are progressed and as aspects in a natal horoscope I always take at least 6-10° orb for Sun and Moon aspects ingoing to planets and to one another for sure, both ways. In oppositions always up to 10° Max.
Also if the Moon is in the 12th house, then I count her as being in the 1st even when she is 8° away from the Ascendant.

gaer
08-10-2007, 10:22 AM
gaer that was very interesting- yes i know what you mean by giving too wide and orb because it then gets close to other aspects..i think quintiles show a lot and could be more used.

I have Sun quintile Jupiter, about a half degree orb applying. First of all, why should 1/5th of the circle be less important than 1/6th (sextile). :)

I think quintiles function much like trines or sextiles, but on a much more subtle level. ;)

Hey I have a cluster of planets in Libra too- Sun Mercury Neptune.To me a 10 degree orb could give a berth of 20 degrees-for heaven's sake...The more I do astrology the more I think it is about *Exactness*..

My Virgo Asc. and Scorpio Mercury and Mars wants precision too! As to the 20 degrees, if your Mercury, for example were 10 degrees from both the Sun and Neptune, that would be a perfect example of your point.

Gaer

gaer
08-10-2007, 10:27 AM
No Gear, in fact, if it is interesting material, it is never a problem if you write long essays! About the inconjunct aspects, I personally never take a larger orb than 2° and for Sun and Moon 3°. In natal astrology I also take smaller orbs for Sun and Moon when transiting but most certainly not when they are progressed and as aspects in a natal horoscope I always take at least 6-10° orb for Sun and Moon aspects ingoing to planets and to one another for sure, both ways. In oppositions always up to 10° Max.

That seems very reasonable. I use about the same orbs for natal charts

Also if the Moon is in the 12th house, then I count her as being in the 1st even when she is 8° away from the Ascendant.
Really! I'm sure you have a good reason, and I'd love to hear what it is. :)

By the way, it is 6:30 AM, and I'm still up. This would be another topic for another thread, but I wonder what members think indicates night-owls? I never want to get up during the day, and I never want to go to sleep at night. I've been that way my entire life. ;)

lillyjgc
08-10-2007, 10:41 AM
Gaer- well my sun is 2 deg Lib ,Neptune 24 deg Lib, merc 26 deg lib.
One thing I have noticed in "death charts" is that straight after death a series of quintiles forms in the chart before it *resumes* normal aspects, if you know what I mean- i have a few death charts up my sleeve now..Subtle like you say but easy peaceful energies.72 degrees, yeah? Something to do with pentacles? (I'm shocking at maths)..Part of sacred geometry no doubt...so what you say is true-for all we know every single degree point may form part of an aspect..and we have maybe only identified some of the aspects. When I saw a list of deciles, quadradeciles (!) etc I remember thinking< they can't ALL be important-surely???> but it is a distinct possibility.the inconjunct and yods truly interest me...things joined that have no apparent commonality-hard to interpret in horary but seeing they ARE joined they must have a precise meaning.
i don't agree with you star about such a wide orb for moon in H12..but as it is an applying aspect the overall interpretation wouldn't vary much so it's neither here nor there..I would call that <an applying cj> whereas you might just call it a conjunction..
If we allow too great an orb perhaps it is even harder to get timing right in horary but with progressed charts yes, I agree with what you have said.Kind regards, Lillyjgc

gaer
08-11-2007, 04:09 AM
Gaer- well my sun is 2 deg Lib ,Neptune 24 deg Lib, merc 26 deg lib.

I see. :)

One thing I have noticed in "death charts" is that straight after death a series of quintiles forms in the chart before it *resumes* normal aspects, if you know what I mean- i have a few death charts up my sleeve now..

That's totally out of my experience. Do you do this like a comparison chart, using the time of death and place of death compared to the natal chart?

Subtle like you say but easy peaceful energies.72 degrees, yeah? Something to do with pentacles? (I'm shocking at maths)..

Definitely a pentacle principle, and since this shape is so important in so many things, it's hard for me to think of it is unimportant.

Part of sacred geometry no doubt...so what you say is true-for all we know every single degree point may form part of an aspect..and we have maybe only identified some of the aspects. When I saw a list of deciles, quadradeciles (!) etc I remember thinking< they can't ALL be important-surely???> but it is a distinct possibility.

Well, if you consider 40 degrees, for instance, that's 1/9th of the circle. I've never done anything with that.

On the other hand, 1/7, 2/7, 3/7—those seem interesting. (Septile, biseptile, triseptile). But it's REALLY hard to find info about them.

But yods I find fascinating because of the balance. If the orbs are small, the midpoint of the sextile formed forms an opposition. Any time I see any kind of pattern like that, I'm interested, but I tend to be obsessed with patterns. ;)

Very interesting!

Gaer

lillyjgc
08-11-2007, 05:21 AM
Gaer, With the death charts..I use the person's birth chart and run transits against that. The death chart itself (time of death- like an event chart really)shows quintiles starting to form..i then advance that chart in one minute intervals and watch the soul *do* something through the chart- It's truly amazing- one advantage of having a lot of deaths in my life.The minute I heard death charts were a *taboo* subject I was immediately interested in them (!) lillyjgc

gaer
08-11-2007, 07:19 PM
Gaer, With the death charts..I use the person's birth chart and run transits against that. The death chart itself (time of death- like an event chart really)shows quintiles starting to form..

OK. Clear. That would certainly be much easier to do.

i then advance that chart in one minute intervals and watch the soul *do* something through the chart- It's truly amazing- one advantage of having a lot of deaths in my life.The minute I heard death charts were a *taboo* subject I was immediately interested in them (!) lillyjgc
My mother passed away about a week ago, after a long battle with dementia.

I was doing the same thing, I think, looking at transits, leading up to her death and following it. There were no quintiles that suddenly appeared or disappeared, but one was applying and hit dead on at just about the exact time of her death. I won't talk about that here, since someone might thing, X quintile Y shows death, and that would be dangerous.

Gaer

lillyjgc
08-12-2007, 02:39 AM
Gaer So sorry to hear about your mother...as a quintile is a beautiful easy energy it makes sense that the release from torment would be facilitated by a quintile. Is the birth time correct for your mother's chart? Mostly I noticed the quintiles were to the asc. point in the charts I looked at.
I lost my best friend in January from cancer. She was *dying* for about 6 months after having cancer for 8 years..her aspects were horrific and pluto was exact to her asc when she did die, but I guess the critical aspects reach perfection and this is the death time...After that they are separating aspects as the being separates from the earth-well, that's how it seems to me...Kind wishes, lillyjgc

gaer
08-12-2007, 07:21 AM
Gaer So sorry to hear about your mother...as a quintile is a beautiful easy energy it makes sense that the release from torment would be facilitated by a quintile. Is the birth time correct for your mother's chart? Mostly I noticed the quintiles were to the asc. point in the charts I looked at.
I lost my best friend in January from cancer. She was *dying* for about 6 months after having cancer for 8 years..her aspects were horrific and pluto was exact to her asc when she did die, but I guess the critical aspects reach perfection and this is the death time...After that they are separating aspects as the being separates from the earth-well, that's how it seems to me...Kind wishes, lillyjgc
I uploaded the time of death. It is in my public profile. Just click on my name.

I wrote a lot more, but I lost everything I typed, and I'm starting to get seriously sick to my stomach and a raging headache from the frustration.

I really appreciate your kind thoughts, and I know what you went through with your friend. When the end comes, it's a relief, but it does not stop the pain of loss. :(

Gaer

lillyjgc
08-12-2007, 10:09 AM
Hi Gaer.. (yes I understand about the frustrations of losing everything you've just written!)
I had a look at the charts in your image file. What I noticed for the *horary* of the death of your mother -well event chart really.I saw some quintiles in that.

sun quintile mars, jupiter quintile neptune (how beautiful) and pluto quintile the north node.
Pars also is quintile the north node.
I couldnt get that image of the transits to natal into my own program-and found it a bit hard to read. Would you mind giving me your mum's birth data?
All the best, lillyjgc

lillyjgc
08-12-2007, 12:28 PM
Gaer: I've just looked up- my friend had the following quintiles in her *transit to natal chart* at the time of her death:
Tven Qu. natal venus (H4)
TR.Ven Qu North node
Tr Uranus Qu N Mercury
Tr Pluto qu Neptune
Asc Qu Pluto
Pars fortuna Quintile chiron.

and on the hour of death chart?
sun qu N. Node
mercury quintile her MC
jupiter quintile neptune.

I can give you info on other death charts if you are interested, or researching...good wishes, Lillyjgc

gaer
08-13-2007, 03:31 AM
Hi Gaer.. (yes I understand about the frustrations of losing everything you've just written!)
I had a look at the charts in your image file. What I noticed for the *horary* of the death of your mother -well event chart really.I saw some quintiles in that.

One chart is my own, which I imagine you guessed.

The black one is the one uploaded. I had to reduce the size because of the site limitation, and then the site does not display at actual size. Pleae don't think this is a complaint or criticism—it isn't—but that caused some problems visually. Another is that I could not show all the info without using several screens. :(

My mom's birth data:
Thelma
April 4th, 1917. 2:45 AM. No DST.
73:55W
41:42N
Poughkeepsie, NY

The ascendant should be close to 3 AQU 54 (as a check), Moon about 7 Virgo 05 (another check).

I use Astrolog for myself, which I find harder to use than some programs because of all the settings and choices but wonderful if you are creative with it. However, I usually work with natal charts. In this program I am able to reset orbs, to look for only particular aspects, etc.

Just as a side-note, to connect with this thread, what would you say about Venus in Aries in the 2nd? :) Traditionally, Venus is "not at home" in Aries, but since the second house is ruled by Taurus, it would be a comfortable place of it.

sun quintile mars, jupiter quintile neptune (how beautiful) and pluto quintile the north node.
Pars also is quintile the north node.

OK. You are examining the time of death. To do that I would set for this area, Fort Lauderdale, 80:09W, 26:07N. If you do this, you will see that Chiron was quintile the Asc. at almost exactly 11:54 PM, Aug. 1st.

And Saturn was biquintile the MC at 12:05 AM. If you are looking for aspects that literally blink on an off at the time of death, those would be two.

And that is "a view". Another is looking at the transits to her natal chart, and their transiting Venus quintiles natal Venus exactly at the time of death. (I do not have the exact minute, but I know it was very close to midnight.) There are other quintiles, but ones that is "switched on and off" is formed by the transiting MC (point) to Chiron, quintile, at about 11:41 PM.

Those two Chiron aspects, in two different views, took place in little more than a ten minute window.

I know many people will read this and think it is morbid, but for me it's not. It's a kind of tribute to know what was going on, to imprint on my mind (soul) that someone I loved died at a time that was beautiful in some way.

As for the "wounded healer", I think it was Chiron who was delivered from pain through death.

Gaer

Junke
01-05-2008, 12:52 PM
I have Venus in Fall (Virgo - along with Jupiter in it's detriment - conjunct each other) and as much as I've read up on it and studied it, I still have no idea what it means...

Can someone enlighten me?

Jenna Jupiter
02-05-2008, 04:58 PM
Have Venus in Capricorn 5:th house (with a lot of company) my love life do not exist and im happy about that, like to be alone but i should make more friends. I don't like kids but they love me. Newborn kids have allways been smiling at me. Strangers kids can look at me so much they forget about their parents for a while. The last months i have been thinking about kids very often thats weird couse i rarley do.

Heart of a Scorpio
02-19-2008, 01:58 AM
My ex had Venus in Pisces. I have Venus in Libra. She was the first girl I can safely say I loved.

wayne penner
02-23-2008, 06:19 AM
Venus in Scorpio is a very challenging sign to be in for the planet.

Venus is flghty, superficial, slightly silly, friendly to all, full of charm and grace before it flitters away to another. Scorpio is deep but stormy, staid, emotionally fixed, cold, everything that Venus is not.

It is a beautiful young maiden trapped by some sinister force not easy to define ...

It constantly seeks purification, to purify both itself and others. So you will sometimes see great religious zeal among the self-aware, or the desire to benefit mankind as a whole through learning or philosophy. But for most people this is an unhappy and unfulfilled position, ever wanting what it can't have. In the best cases it will already have tried all the fruits of forbidden knowledge, in the worst it continues to do so.

The best that can happen with this placement, in an extremely strong-willed person is self-abnegation so that the Spirit soars above earthly wants and delights, but then the person denies themselves the very essence that is Venus, so that ordinary happiness must be ignored and eschewed for the higher value. The contradiction remains.

For most people this is a dangerous and difficult position - on the one hand they feel guilt at their tremendous sexual desire, on the other they cannot ever seem to satisfy that desire, no matter the degree of self-indulgence.

But all too often Venus in Scorpio cannot avoid the temptations of the world for long, and too many drunkards, sex addicts and degenerates have this position, with only a few saints.

redwolf481
05-09-2008, 12:32 AM
I have this interesting combination of Venus in Taurus (first house) in opposition pluto in scorpio (7th house).

Both are in their dignities and yet they have trouble recognising each other.

My experience of love life has been like a standard episode of your heightened soap drama.

I believe this configuration ( if anyone has a similiar one) denotes secret love affairs, cheating, jealousy, obsession, revenge and strong bondships between two people.

If anyone can explain it better/further I would be very happy to understand this conflicting configuration. Any remendies would be great!




I I have this as well

libra rising venus in taurus in the 7th house(but interpreted in 8th so in both) opposite pluto in scorpio in 1st (venus is conjunct moon in taurus in the 8th as well)


very wierd the the only girl who ever made my hear absolutly melt had venus in scorpio conjunct my pluto and my mars was exactly trine her venus and her mars was trine my venus and we just had a shitload of aspects lol

redwolf481
05-09-2008, 12:37 AM
[quote=wayne penner]Venus in Scorpio is a very challenging sign to be in for the planet.

Venus is flghty, superficial, slightly silly, friendly to all, full of charm and grace before it flitters away to another. Scorpio is deep but stormy, staid, emotionally fixed, cold, everything that Venus is not.

It is a beautiful young maiden trapped by some sinister force not easy to define ...

It constantly seeks purification, to purify both itself and others. So you will sometimes see great religious zeal among the self-aware, or the desire to benefit mankind as a whole through learning or philosophy. But for most people this is an unhappy and unfulfilled position, ever wanting what it can't have. In the best cases it will already have tried all the fruits of forbidden knowledge, in the worst it continues to do so.

The best that can happen with this placement, in an extremely strong-willed person is self-abnegation so that the Spirit soars above earthly wants and delights, but then the person denies themselves the very essence that is Venus, so that ordinary happiness must be ignored and eschewed for the higher value. The contradiction remains.

For most people this is a dangerous and difficult position - on the one hand they feel guilt at their tremendous sexual desire, on the other they cannot ever seem to satisfy that desire, no matter the degree of self-indulgence.

But all too often Venus in Scorpio cannot avoid the temptations of the world for long, and too many drunkards, sex addicts and degenerates have this position, with only a few saints.[/quot

the girl i loved was a virgo with pisces rising and mars and capricorn and venus in scorpio(moon in sag)

she was very cautious about who she shared herself with(friends, lovers, anyone) I know she'll be able to count on one hand how many people shes been with her whole life....on the other hand our boss was a libra with a virgo ascendant and venus in scorpio...he would midshift at the bar...bring chicks down and have sex with them in his office

kokawaii
08-14-2008, 02:02 AM
The good- Venus in the 12th house, accidentally dignified
The bad- Venus in Scorpio, in detriment
The ugly- Venus conjunct Pluto- I don't want to talk about it

Do you think the house dignity outweighs the detriment? How does a detriment/ dignity combo work, I'm sure lots of you must have some. I see it as a tainted combination. There is much good either on a personal or social sphere and yet alot of pain in the other one. Eg I get lots of compassion for other people and from other people, but lots of pain personally from another person, and I think I probably give pain to another person.

How does this thing operate in your charts?


Would you attach any special significance to Venus in seven (7=Libra), in Pisces in a chart?

Neptune or Jupiter would be accidentally dignified in the 12th since they are the rulers of Pisces and Venus is accidentally dignified in the 2nd or 7th house (ruler of Taurus, Libra).

***

I have exalted Venus in Pisces (ruler of the 5th) in the 10th house. It:

conjuncts my Mars and MC, (somehow, I think my conjunction has nothing to do with passion, because I'm not passionate in love)
sextiles my Moon, Mercury and Jupiter, (Chiron too)
trines my Saturn, (loyalty in love)
squares its own ruler, Neptune (talking about being over-idealistic)
I think ViP can be a hard placement (despite what people say) because they love someone despite their flaws and even if there are lots of them, a ViP will put up with everything and try to "save" the person (litterally loving without limits). Furthermore, ViP tends to give without taking anything back and they are too forgiving ("It's okay you burned my car; I still love you" - okay that is an extreme scenario but you get the drift...).

I think it's best to have Venus is Taurus or Libra.

star2858
08-16-2008, 08:25 PM
I have Venus in Virgo, I guess it's fall? But in the natal it's trine to Jupiter, conjunct Mars and Mercury and MC and if anything I don't find natal Venus in Virgo too troubling or debilitating. Sometimes, it makes me seek perfection in relationships and set high standards, but the aspects to Jupiter, Mars, and Mercury balances much of it out, so I'll give in/surrender happily to what Venus wants! Just from my experience, the aspects really help lift my Venus to a better place. Operating alone, I'm not sure what it would be capable of, but the connections (aspects) it makes natally seems to function pretty well.

I have venus in virgo in the 5th house (near the 6th house actually) and i do exactly what you do! I tend to have high standard and seek idealism in relationships. I have venus squaring uranus (in the 8th) though, but venus trines my ascendant and midheaven. I don't really have any problems either (still young though). I think this aspect usually makes you do stupid things in relationships maybe, or make mistakes (i could be wandering here though).

poshslob
08-17-2008, 02:07 AM
I have Venus in Virgo in the 9th and I am very unlucky in love. I'm very picky and I have standards that no mortal can live up to. My Venus is square Neptune in the 12th...the only major aspect Venus receives. I often even imagine faults in guys.

My Venus is at 11 Vir 22, and is dignified by triplicity, term and face. I hoping this means there is hope for me!

Night Sky
08-17-2008, 02:18 AM
I read somewhere that the benefics are "good" no matter where they are placed, so long as not conjunct a malefic....

I've seen Venus in Virgo love the beauty in small things, quite modest, maybe a little insecure about their looks, but really caring actually, and humble... agree or disagree with this statement?

poshslob
08-17-2008, 02:58 PM
I read somewhere that the benefics are "good" no matter where they are placed, so long as not conjunct a malefic....

I've seen Venus in Virgo love the beauty in small things, quite modest, maybe a little insecure about their looks, but really caring actually, and humble... agree or disagree with this statement?

I can agree with that statement.

kokawaii
08-17-2008, 04:43 PM
aquarius7000, glad an aqua sun agrees with me. ViP can be hard on us Aquas!

Night Sky, do you mean Venus is always a benefic? Because a planet is a benefic when it is placed in a good sign (exaltation/dignity) and is a malefic when it is placed in a sign that does not mix well with its nature (detriment/fall). Oh and I would add Venus in Virgo are generally loyal :-)

starlink
08-17-2008, 07:31 PM
Kokawai, I dont think Venus can ever become a malific like Saturn or Mars, no matter where she is placed. In signs of her fall or detriment, I think that Venus just becomes very weak, lazy, selfindulgent etc. to the detriment of the chartowner. Then hopefully other aspects will counteract this. But really becoming a malific, I doubt it, but I might be wrong;the most malific it could get i.m.o. is towards the person her or himself .

Starlink

kokawaii
08-17-2008, 10:12 PM
Starlink, I might be wrong. I use the Hadès' book ("Manuel complet d'Astrologie Scientifique et Traditionnelle" - French title) and the general rule (actually, the 2nd and third rule of interpretation) is that any benefic planet becomes a malefic when it is in exaltation or dignity and vice-versa (same thing for neutral planets). Applying to the house, I've seen it work so that's why I use that rule (for instance, my friend has Mercury (ruler of 11th) -neutral and benefic- in Pisces -becomes malefic- in the 9th, hasn't done well in university studies and trips often cancel themselves because someone - mostly friends - cancel last minute; same idea with his mars in aries; some people with "malefic" Venus ), but once again, it might be wrong as I did not read up in other books on the reason why an "inversion" would take place. Perhaps you are right, natural benefic cannot become completely malefic (and vice-versa), perhaps only very weak.

NekhbetII
08-17-2008, 10:23 PM
My Venus is in Cancer/2nd-3rd house cusp, conjunct Saturn, square Jupiter and Pluto, quincunx Neptune. Sun and Asc is in Taurus.

It is debilitated. I use to think Venus hated me lol or that Venusian energy was a curse. Life time lesson with Venus and I. Any thoughts shared are appreciated.

Sag Moon
08-18-2008, 04:50 PM
Malefics shall perform their function as being such same as Benefics no matter what sign and house thye are found in.

That has always been my rule. Ve-Virgo might not be as hardy as it placed init's ruler ,but look at the love shared by one such as John Lennon as an example of how well Venus can work in the life.

If one experiences hardship in love it may be caused by other factors and not Venus alone. You may look to the 7th house ruler and planets residing there to see what might be going on.

This is just a suggstion.

Happiness and longing for something can be offset by other factors such as Neptune also.

As always the whole of the chart needs to be looked at and not a certain planet or aspect.

Saturn keeps us in check as to not getting to ahead of our selves where material and happiness is concerned IMO.It grounds us to reality of why we are here in a sense.What makes one happy may make another miserable as is the case of many successful people we might envy such as the mega rich who are not always happy people although they have material success.

People like Ghandhi lived a life of poverty ,but were spiritually intune with their own being and what mattered most.

Life it seems to the enlightened is temporal and that puts things into perspective also.

Jupiter it has been said also does not always bring happiness as at times we do not know when we have won or else know what we really have to be appreciative of life.

Many having 12th placements are happy when much is written about how bad placements there can be.Many presidents and generals have those placements and experienced loss ,but overcame grief .

starlink
08-18-2008, 06:33 PM
Hi Kokawaii, I do take your notes at heart and will investigate a bit on my own as well. This is mainly traditional astrology and as I was taught modern, it is very possible that I am not right here, mainly instinctual about these things. Thank you for telling me about the French Hadès book!
Cheers, Starlink

starlink
08-18-2008, 06:57 PM
Hi NekbehII! Maybe it is the squares to Venus that do this to you, because Venus in Cancer by itself is not bad at all, but the conjunction to Saturn, the square to Pluto etc. etc. is, i.m.o. what makes this planet work out negatively in your life.

I have Venus in Aries. She is in fall there, so that is than "malific". But she is in het house of her JOY, which helps , I think, a bit (at least). Then she makes a trine to Pluto, ruler of my Ascendant and is widely conjunct with Mars who is very strong in his own sign and she opposes Neptune. Personally I am actually very happy with my Venus. She has a lot of charisma, thanks to Pluto and adds power to my Venusian side:) and she has made me very creative and artistic as well as musical. So I have never felt a negative thing coming from my Venus.One would think I could be a "femme fatale" with these aspects, but as a matter of fact, I am not at all. I am actually very serious in love and apart from (very) few and short affairs in my life,(and I deserved those with an unfaithful ex!) I have always been loyal to one man.

Something is coming to mind now actually about Venus being "malific". Venus rules my 7th house, so Venus shows the type of husband I married. Now HE was quite malific actually, very dominant, yet he thought he was very caring towards his family (he is Cancer). The relationship with his children was awful and now that we all matured, it is more or less OK, but still tense. His 5th house (in my turned chart) is ruled by Mercury and Mercury is exactly squaring Saturn, so that shows his relationship with his kids (as well as his love affairs I imagine:)!).

So to come back to the possibility of a malific Venus, maybe it works for the rulers of the houses, representing that life compartment? But as ruler of my Sun, Venus has been benefic to me. Or maybe I can see Venus as a malific interpretor of my married life? I actually always felt happy and fortunate in my marriage, at least for the first 29 years which is a long time. I divorced after 34 years of marriage amicably. We are still best friends.

Maybe my exalted North Node in the 7th has helped me there!

Starlink

starlink
08-18-2008, 07:03 PM
Many having 12th placements are happy is what Sag Moon wrote. And yes, I AM HAPPY! and have been most of my life really (Moon and Jupiter as well as Chiron in 12). I was not so happy in school because I was singled out a lot (I was Dutch amongst mostly Indonesian children)and I can remember one more time in life that I was not happy and that was when my marriage broke up. But overall I have always felt fine. No 12th house miseries, but who knows, I might have burried them in my subconscious of course. I dont remember my childhood, just a few flashes and then I think they were triggered by photographs.

NekhbetII
08-19-2008, 03:07 AM
Thank you Sag Moon and Starlink :)

It is good that we can rise above our astrological charts because that is what helped me and is the reason why I stated that I "use" to think that Venus hated me. Growing up was hard. I was not in a safe household and being very much a Venusian, my energy often attracted abusive relationships. Things got so bad that I eventually suppressed the energy for a great part of my life until that was no longer an option lol.

My sun is in 1st house, Neptune is in my 7th house along with Rahu under Scorpio/Sag. Jupiter with Chiron are in 12th under Aries. Moon and Pluto in 5th. There has been much loss but bless, things have gotten better.

I was able to find happiness in love with my wonderful husband. Indeed I had to "check" my requirements of what I thought I wanted in a mate in order for me to be open and able to "see" him :-)

I have to laugh Starlink because you post ooze "happy feelings" lol. Venus has been good from the beginning with endowing me with artistic abilities but it was the other qualities that use to make me question and I could never understand because I do love her so :39:

Thank You both for you time and insight :-)

Claire19
08-19-2008, 07:27 AM
I can agree with that statement. Venus in Virgo is lultimately practical and will want any loved one to work and pull their weight with the everyday needs. May want a lover who is virginal and pure and find love at work or when involved with the everday routines and needs. Have a love of small animals especially farm type creatures.

Claire19
08-19-2008, 07:30 AM
With Venus in 5th squaring Uranus in 8th can mean poor investments, bad luck with speculation and I wouldnt be buying too many lottery tickets.
Can be sudden losses or shock incidents with lovers who may want to experiment in unusual ways that dont suit you sexually.

NekhbetII
08-19-2008, 01:16 PM
Re: Venus in Virgo

I work with tarot and hope it is okay to include in discussions. I bring up tarot because, Venus in Virgo is represented by the 9 of Pentacles card, which is a pretty wonderful depiction (imo).

From a tarot perspective, (summarizing) this placement relates to solitary leisure, refined living, material well being and protection. I tend to see it as a placement that endows one with prudence and pleasure - more of leaning toward beneficent acquisitions and less of a chance for over indulgences.

Night Sky
08-19-2008, 06:25 PM
Re: Venus in Virgo

I work with tarot and hope it is okay to include in discussions. I bring up tarot because, Venus in Virgo is represented by the 9 of Pentacles card, which is a pretty wonderful depiction (imo).

From a tarot perspective, (summarizing) this placement relates to solitary leisure, refined living, material well being and protection. I tend to see it as a placement that endows one with prudence and pleasure - more of leaning toward beneficent acquisitions and less of a chance for over indulgences.

What about venus in Libra (in its dignity)??? What does the card say?

NekhbetII
08-19-2008, 06:55 PM
What about venus in Libra (in its dignity)??? What does the card say?

The tarot works by decanates. In tarot, Venus in Libra can be represented by 2 of swords (or in some systems it is considered to represent Moon in Libra). The traditional card shows a lady in a seemingly stagnate predicament.

Its traditional meaning (again summarizing) deals with one having a delicate emotional state, closed off (by circumstance or choice), fence riding/straddling, procrastination and divided loyalty. Basically (in regards to tarot) it is trying for one to move forward in duality like that - not knowing or not being truthful about what ones true motivation is.

starlink
08-19-2008, 07:12 PM
Its traditional meaning (again summarizing) deals with one having a delicate emotional state, closed off (by circumstance or choice), fence riding/straddling, procrastination and divided loyalty. Basically (in regards to tarot) it is trying for one to move forward in duality like that - not knowing or not being truthful about what ones true motivation is.

Does it not also show that one does not see the opportunities that surrounds us? or that the future is somehow unclear to the person and he or she has to rely on blind faith? It can also mean, I think, learning to use your rational abilities. Libra is a mental, intellectual sign. the lady on the card is blindfolded, she cannot see reason.So this card could also mean losing your sense of reality and preferring to go through life dreaming.

It is nice to compare a planet in sign with Tarot. Where could I find a book which shows this Nekhbett? I also did not know that the Tarot works by decanantes! You have made me curious now!!

NekhbetII
08-19-2008, 07:29 PM
Does it not also show that one does not see the opportunities that surrounds us? or that the future is somehow unclear to the person and he or she has to rely on blind faith? It can also mean, I think, learning to use your rational abilities. Libra is a mental, intellectual sign. the lady on the card is blindfolded, she cannot see reason.So this card could also mean losing your sense of reality and preferring to go through life dreaming.

It is nice to compare a planet in sign with Tarot. Where could I find a book which shows this Nekhbett? I also did not know that the Tarot works by decanantes! You have made me curious now!!

I love tarot, the meanings are as open, as the person who is reading them ;)

A book that I enjoyed while studying this aspect of tarot is called "New Age Tarot" by James Waneless. It is "to the point" in regards to tarot meanings as well as providing astrological links.

I became interested in tarot by decanantes while studying hermetics (I think). I say, "I think" because spiritual studies are one of my passions and over time it gets difficult to remember where I pick up various things.

starlink
08-20-2008, 11:20 AM
Thank you for the info! I have the book of Terry Donaldson "step by step Tarot" and a few German one's as well. It is great isn't it. I am not doing Tarot readings, I just wanted to know about Tarot (and Numeroligy, did a lot of that as well). Then I also bought this TARASTRO game. You get a very big picture of the birthchart, take Aries as the beginnig point and then lay cards on the houses (for the new year for instance). Then turn them over and see what the cards tell you about house 1, 2, 3 etc. of the birthchart. Very interesting if you then compare your outcome with a Solar Return chart.
Really nice to do that.

NekhbetII
08-20-2008, 02:37 PM
Thank you for the info! I have the book of Terry Donaldson "step by step Tarot" and a few German one's as well. It is great isn't it. I am not doing Tarot readings, I just wanted to know about Tarot (and Numeroligy, did a lot of that as well). Then I also bought this TARASTRO game. You get a very big picture of the birthchart, take Aries as the beginnig point and then lay cards on the houses (for the new year for instance). Then turn them over and see what the cards tell you about house 1, 2, 3 etc. of the birthchart. Very interesting if you then compare your outcome with a Solar Return chart.
Really nice to do that.

I have done astro spreads before but never compared them to a solar return chart. Hmm, very interesting and I most definitely will give that a try. Sounds like a great exercise, Thanks Starlink :-)