sinificators for missing persons & where to find them

ok so I was just about to do a chart to find out where my dear friend is and assigned him the 11th house (friends) when I read an article on a chart done for Madeleine McCann the missing toddler which had her placed in the 1st house Why would the childs significator be assigned to the 1st house?? This astrologer probably wouldn't have known this child so why wasn't the child assigned the 5th house(children)
Do we also use the 2nd House ruler which I know is used for missing items to find people as well?
I have to have this clear before I do this chart so I'd really appreciate some help

Hi Rocme:
I think the Mccann chart you referred to placed the girl in H1 because it was cast more as an Event chart-The time of her disappearance being made known to the police. (If youre referring to the chart I think you are referring to)
Ordinarily for a missing person chart I would use H7 to signify the person you are asking about.
If *you* lose something, it is *your* second house of possessions that becomes relevant. If *other person* loses something, we might use the eighth-their turned second.
You are looking for a close friend? I would use H7. Some would use h11 and turn the chart.
Most questions of this kind will yield a correct answer using H7 to signify the quesited.
Hope that helps
Lilly

ok so I was just about to do a chart to find out where my dear friend is and assigned him the 11th house (friends) when I read an article on a chart done for Madeleine McCann the missing toddler which had her placed in the 1st house Why would the childs significator be assigned to the 1st house??

Click to expand...

Lilly's answer is probably the most correct, even though the methodology of the assignment is questionable to say the least. Assigning the first house to be the missing child in the event chart for the reporting of her disappearance is pretty much wrong. That's beside the point though.

Ordinarily for a missing person chart I would use H7 to signify the person you are asking about.

Click to expand...

Depends mostly on the relationship between the people. Lilly (the writer) makes it clear in his example of the missing brother, where he uses the Third house. In the case of a friend, that whole rule has become so distorted that we really can't say for sure, but the Seventh might be the best "go to" house, then you just derive the houses from there and see which derived house that planet lands in and go from there.

Kai
Lilly's answer is probably the most correct, even though the methodology of the assignment is questionable to say the least. Assigning the first house to be the missing child in the event chart for the reporting of her disappearance is pretty much wrong. That's beside the point though.

It was actually's Draco's chart on the Maddie case to which I was referring-take it up with him if you like!
Cheers,
Lilly

Kaiousei no Senshi said:

Depends mostly on the relationship between the people...

Click to expand...

Should I really use the 7th house for him? he's in his seventies and a fellow AA member but a really dear old friend. At this point I've assigned him the 11th house (which I could change to the 7th house) So with the 11th house this makes his significator Saturn which places Saturn in his 8th house along with the Moon and the Sun is in his 6th house. Now do I look for the ruler of his 8th house and see where it is placed (which is Mars) or do I use Saturn in to find incoming and outgoing aspects.
I'm in the middle of doing the chart now so your feedback has really helped
Also the Ascending and descending line is right on the cusp so does this mean that it's already too late to ask this question.

Rocme: I would use H7 for him. If you would like to post the chart, I'm sure we can help you if you want.
I would use H5 if I was asking about my child. I would use H3 if I was asking about my sibling.H11 would not be the *wrong* house to use but generally, as I understand it, H7 would normally be used. Hopefully a more experienced horarist will come in on this.
Cheers
Lilly

lillyjgc said:

Rocme: I would use H7 for him. If you would like to post the chart, I'm sure we can help you if you want.
I would use H5 if I was asking about my child. I would use H3 if I was asking about my sibling.H11 would not be the *wrong* house to use but generally, as I understand it, H7 would normally be used. Hopefully a more experienced horarist will come in on this.
Cheers
Lilly

Click to expand...

Fabulous.I will finish it then post it in the "lost items missing persons" forum;looking forward to the help.Thanks

It was actually's Draco's chart on the Maddie case to which I was referring-take it up with him if you like!

Click to expand...

It's been ages since that whole thread has been relevant, but didn't he use the Fifth house which would have been the child of the people reporting the incident? Regardless that's all irrelevant since I was saying that the assignment the article rocme referenced made was incorrect and not anything you had said was wrong.

I would use H5 if I was asking about my child. I would use H3 if I was asking about my sibling.H11 would not be the *wrong* house to use but generally, as I understand it, H7 would normally be used.

Click to expand...

Again, that's correct. If he's a "dear friend" he's probably going to be shown as the Seventh house. It's a really confusing issue, the whole Eleven vs. Seventh for friends. However, Houlding also says "Note that the Seventh house is not 'any other person'; it relates only to those with who we are directly and personally involved, or in general (otherwise indefinable) relationships, or those we oppose." However, it cannot be overlooked that the Eleventh house does represent "friends of the querent"

Re: significators for missing persons & where to find them

Kaiousei no Senshi said:

It's been ages since that whole thread has been relevant, but didn't he use the Fifth house which would have been the child of the people reporting the incident? Regardless that's all irrelevant since I was saying that the assignment the article rocme referenced made was incorrect and not anything you had said was wrong."

Click to expand...

Yes it really does get frustrating for the learner (me)
I actually got the info from Nina Gryphons web site www.gryphonastrology.com

Kaiousei no Senshi said:

Again, that's correct. If he's a "dear friend" he's probably going to be shown as the Seventh house. It's a really confusing issue, the whole Eleven vs. Seventh for friends. However, Houlding also says "Note that the Seventh house is not 'any other person'; it relates only to those with who we are directly and personally involved, or in general (otherwise indefinable) relationships, or those we oppose." However, it cannot be overlooked that the Eleventh house does represent "friends of the querent"

Click to expand...

I've now used the 7th house for my friend and posted the chart and my interpretation(for what it's worth ) in the "lost items missing persons" forum;so the more feedback the better.