A full 12th House Solar Return

astropsychologist

Well-known member
My 12th house is bursting this year!
I find solar returns difficult to interpret, so was wondering if someone would be so kind as to help me out with what to expect this year. The 12th is a murky area, I am assuming it is a year of very little happening? But then Venus, Mars and Uranus are conjunct in the 12th...so am I to expect a short-lived secret romance? Also I have the same sign rising in the return chart as I do natally, Ive read that indicates an important year? But a full 12th seems to counteract that!
I've attached both my natal and solar if that's any help.
 

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smilingsteph

Well-known member
Well without even looking at the charts the 12th house is not as some think quiet!
It is solidifying what has occured throughout the houses during other transits and it is merging you with it spiritually.
You may have many dreams during the 12th house return and the need to listen or reflect upon them is important. When you wake up in the morning and you have had a dream you can remember, write it down. It may help you later on. 12th house is about psychic communication too, so the dreams may be telling you something.
You may want to be alone, to feel the flow of life and reflect. Now if you are a go with the flow person you will be fine, others that have a hard time letting go of the physical self and are able to embody the spiritual may turn to drugs and or alcohol (as did my mother), so if you are reading any of that basic stuff from the internet dont let it get you to believe you will be an alcoholic for the year, but that you may even be susceptible to medications, or be very sensitive to things of that nature.
Can you do a chart with the natal and solar return together?
I will try to take a look ;)
Also,

Well since it is hard for me to see the charts together and with the new forum changes I cannot seem to view the chart at the same time as typing.
Wow you do have a lot of planets in the 12th house.
Your sun is usually in the first house- the "I am here," "look at me," house. Now this year it is in the 12th, along with many other planets. I had a huge 12th house transit and my mom died (not saying that is the case for you, I had other factors) but I was dealing with things that were very spiritual for me. I was healing the bonds that broke up my family. I was very sensitive, and I did feel alone, but I wanted to be alone.
Healing, sensitivity to what one cannot see, clearing up old things from the past.
You want to look at the ascendant for the solar return, that will be your general theme. Then look to the ruling planet for the sign, and where it is located...this will also be an area of concern.
 
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wilsontc

Staff member
career year, to astro

astro,

You asked:
I find solar returns difficult to interpret, so was wondering if someone would be so kind as to help me out with what to expect this year...I am assuming it is a year of very little happening?...I have the same sign rising in the return chart as I do natally, Ive read that indicates an important year?

I have found it most useful to interpret the Solar Return in the exact same way you interpret a birth chart. The only difference is with the Solar Return chart it is about the "birth" of a new birthday year. So you have a bucket chart with Saturn (duty, also career) as the "handle", indicating you "pick up" things this year by first using your career energy. This idea is re-enforced since Saturn is in the daily work house and Capricorn (ruled by Saturn) modifies the Midheaven (outer world). So this year is about career and work in the outer world.

Looking at the relationships issues, we see that Venus (relationships) is square (energy needs to be combined with) Pluto (transformation, also power), suggesting "power issues" in relationships of some kind. This possibility is re-enforced since Scorpio (ruled by Pluto) modifies the cusp (edge) of the relationships house. Pluto is also very strong since it is in the house it rules. As you said, both Mars (being, also action) and Uranus (friends, also impulse) is conjunct (energy is combined with) Venus (relationships), so be careful about taking impulsive action in relationships since these might lead to power issues.

There is an interception between the spirituality house and the daily work house, indicating a need to balance out routine with spirituality in some way. More here (bottom of page):
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/Intercepted_signs.htm

There is a strong need for spirituality of some kind, indicated by the strong focus in the spirituality house, the conjunction (energy is combined with) Jupiter (ancient ruler of spirituality) and Neptune (modern ruler of spirituality).

And, as you say, since you have Taurus (physical, also personal values) modifying Ascendant (self) in your birth chart and now have Taurus modifying Ascendant in your Solar Return, this is a year to focus on your natural interest in your personal values.

Turning and returning,

Tim
 

Joseph Ledzion

Well-known member
By the way, you have no Lot of Fortune calculated. How can you possibly know the outcome of anything with the Lot of Fortune?

Joseph
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Thank you for that. Here are the 2 combined, hope it makes a bit more sense like that. I definitely agree that my dreams are very important at the moment, they are extremely vivid and Im spending a huge amount of time sleeping these days. I don't particularly want to be alone at the moment (as I have been for the past year so I'd like more company) however no matter how much I try to connect with others I feel as if im being forced to be alone right now
 

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I'm a modern astrologer that uses Equal house system and you have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

So 11' Aries would be 12th house cusp, therefore putting your mars, venus and uranus in 11th house of friendships, plus venus is your chart ruler. So instead of being in flirtatious gemini its in exalted pisces, but being conj Uranus it may bring sudden romance, via friends (11th) and also break them as suddenly unfortunately. Saturn is also in 4th conj 5th cusp no change with duties and responsibilities to family and home there.
Jupiter and Neptune in 10th house Equal house

Having your sun/moon in 12th suggests needing more privacy time alone to reflect and dream but also secret enemies are there as well as the link to subconscious mind. You may well find that people bring their problems to you lookihg for tea and sympathy (very pisces trait)

Pluto in 8th square mars in 11th lots of ego, pride energy, action (mars) put into friendships, groups, hopes and wishes, wanting to go deep into life and death cycles, joint finances, sex issues. I think you will get as lot of pleasure (venus) from putting action into friendship. Whereas mars/pluto are sextile natally this SR there will be more tension involved cos of square aspect.

I don't know how advanced you are in your studies with astrology,but maybe it would pay to look at different 'house systems' to see which glove fits.

Be careful not to overtalk or over estimate your communications connected with work Mercury square Jupiter. Sometimes I find this aspect doesn't talk when it should do or overtalks when it needn't..

Hope this helps.
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Hi Astrologer50,

Thanks for the posting. I find that for my natal chart Placidus works best, but I didn't realize that you could also play around with the house systems for solar returns. If Placidus works for the natal chart, will it naturally follow that it will also work best for the solar return?

Its definitely true what you say about :mercury: :square: :jupiter: the past few months I have been focusing on trying to get the balance right in my speech, I tend to be a very concise speaker naturally, but ppl have been complaining lately that I don't elaborate enough so I'm trying to figure out how to do that at the moment. And yes having the :sun: and :moon: in the 12th is definitely drawing me inwards more than normal.
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Hi Joseph,
I have never in my life used the lot of fortune! I've always stuck to the main planets and find that entering all the parts and asteroids etc complicates matters for me. But you obviously seem to think it is very important... Can you please explain a bit about it? How would you interpret it in a solar return chart?
 
Hi Astrologer50,

Thanks for the posting. I find that for my natal chart Placidus works best, but I didn't realize that you could also play around with the house systems for solar returns. If Placidus works for the natal chart, will it naturally follow that it will also work best for the solar return?

Its definitely true what you say about :mercury: :square: :jupiter: the past few months I have been focusing on trying to get the balance right in my speech, I tend to be a very concise speaker naturally, but ppl have been complaining lately that I don't elaborate enough so I'm trying to figure out how to do that at the moment. And yes having the :sun: and :moon: in the 12th is definitely drawing me inwards more than normal.

Well won't it be interesting to see if you are alone (as in placidus) or you make more effort with friends and spend more time in groups/friends with Equal. I hope you come back and enlighten us all :love:
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Will do ;-)
Yes the equal house system looks more hopeful for this year...couldn't face much more 12th house stuff, I've had enough of that lately to last me a lifetime!
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Thats fantastic, thank you for the explanation and the links Joseph. I'm going to try the parts out in my charts in future and see how they work out.
And I am definitely going to watch out for it's influence in my own chart from now on...haven't had any material success lately (quite distressing for a Taurean!)
 

cassanra

Well-known member
Radical equals natal. It does get a bit complicated when you are learning, to see there are so many possibilities. I guess just continuing to learn and play around with it are useful. As an example, with solar returns there is controversy over precessed vs non-precessed. Some astrologers use both. So I have been playing around with those two charts to see what information I can glean. Fortunately, Astrowin, the computer model I use, has the capability to allow me to play with it . So I make notes on both. I think it gives a bigger picture. But when I started learning solars it just confused the heck out of me so I put it aside for awhile. A year later I can begin to incorporate it. I just now started playing with house systems.
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Ok, thanks for that Cassandra. I don't consider myself a beginner, I've been at this for years, but I'll always be learner ;-)..one can never know everything there is to know about astrology. But sometimes people use different words for the same thing...like radical / natal... so it can get confusing! So another quick question....what is precessed and non-precessed?
 

cassanra

Well-known member
A precession of a chart "takes into consideration the precession of the equinoxes since the time of birth, thus the natal planets and luminaries advance very slightly as ones age progresses" Identifying Planetary Triggers by Celeste Teal pg. 65.

Well I am a beginner but don't tell anyone:cool:
 

cassanra

Well-known member
No, precession is more a mathematical adjustment which is meaningless for transits but the solar return uses a fairly exact birth time and variations will affect the chart. Some use it and some do not but recommendations suggest comparing them. My solar return this year has my second house rising or Taurus and my precessed chart has Capricorn or my 10th house rising thus changing all the positions of the planets but when you read them side by side I think you gain insight. In your case, as you are concerned about the 12th house a precessed chart may tell you more.
 

cassanra

Well-known member
Hi, I have been playing with your chart a little in Astrowin trying to pull up a precession chart. After some difficulty was able to pull it up. I cannot post the chart as I can not seem to figure out how to from this program but will describe it for you.
The ascendant is 23' 37 Virgo your 6th house rising. The time listed is 3:46 pm April 24th. So there is still emphasis on your 6/12 axis. The venus/mars/Uranus are in the 7th and the moon and sun are in the 8th and not all together in one house.
 

astropsychologist

Well-known member
Thanks for that Cassandra, must familiarize myself with precessions. I'm liking the sound of the mars/venus/uranus in the 7th!!! Could do with some romance (even if it is short lived... it usually is with Uranus).
I can definitely feel the 6/12 axis influence this year and adding the extra layer of the sun and moon in the 8th in the precessed chart makes sense too as I have just been offered a position as a behavioural therapist.
 
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