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The_Sundance_Kid
03-04-2009, 11:44 PM
I'm sorry if there are other threads on this, I just couldn't find them.

Ray Austin mentions Sects in her articles as a way of evaluating planets and gave this very useful link to explain the concept:

http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2008/11/25/the-astrology-of-sect/

So basically if you have a diurnal birth, that is, the sun is above the horizon, then the sun, Jupiter and Saturn receive plus points. And if it is a nocturnal birth then the moon, Mars and Venus receive plus points.

Furthermore, and this apparently is a minor point, in a diurnal chart, the diurnal planets like being on top (above the horizon.) In a nocturnal chart, the nocturnal planets like being on top. And nocturnal planets like being in nocturnal signs (ie feminine/ negative/ receptive signs), and vice versa (except that Mars, a nocturnal planet, rules Aries, a diurnal sign- I think this might be the reason people say this principle in general is a minor one.)

Mercury is decided according to the link.

Now I was wondering where people might put Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Instinct tells me Uranus might be neutral, Neptune nocturnal, and Pluto diurnal. But maybe they shouldn't be used at all and as more generational planets they require less dignity and debility.

Overall from this technique I have learnt that maybe my Venus and moon are much stronger than I give them credit for. Amd maybe Jupiter is less of the almighty ruler than I thought. And all the time I have always suspected Saturn, and this only confirms. And it makes me even more determined to understand my Mars trapped in an interception and my moon at the apex of a yod, as according to this theory they are waiting to be tapped into!

I would love to hear the thoughts and examples of others, as well as any tips and suggestions.

Sundance :)



Anyway for those interested in an example, here is me:

Nocturnal birth, so moon, Venus and Mars get plus points, while sun, Saturn and Jupiter are less authoritative. Mercury is diurnal and so is less authoritative. This is interesting as I have always thought Jupiter and Pluto to be my strongest planets. This technique has me wondering if Mars is a more dominant ruler of Scorpio.

In addition Venus and the moon are both above the horizon and Venus is accidentally dignified in the 12th and in a feminine sign, although Scorpio is her fall. This overall gives her many plus points. The conjunction to Pluto might therefore give kudos to Pluto afterall, considering Mars is below the horizon.

And Saturn, Jupiter and the sun, both being diurnal, work less well, and both are in the 1st house so I should watch out for those. Luckily all three are below the horizon so hopefully this mitigates. Sun and Jupiter are accidentally dignified and Saturn is at least in a masculine sign. So Saturn would appear to be the worst here, which I would say is true to an extent.

The_Sundance_Kid
03-05-2009, 07:07 PM
Rob Hand explained it more or less like this, especially with Saturn below the horizon at night: You can't see the planets under the horizon, so they aren't delimited. That gives them power to do whatever they do pretty much unto eternity, and what Saturn does best is to limit you. So when it's below the horizon in a night chart, it doesn't stop with the limiting and the guilt trips and telling you how much better you could be or do 'if only you tried harder'. But what are you supposed to try harder than? There's no limit on the question - whatever you do is never good enough for Saturn.



Ah, I think this is another area where I've been confused. The website states:



The gist of it is that diurnal planets prefer to be above the horizon during the day and below the horizon at night. Conversely, the nocturnal planets prefer to be below the horizon during the day and above the horizon at night.



I have a nocturnal chart, so as we all agree, Saturn will be the most problematic, and not Mars.

However as Saturn is a diurnal planet, and I have a night chart, then it should prefer to be below the horizon at night according to the web site. So it will be more problematic than Mars, but being under the horizon I thought would be a consolation. This doesn't match up with what Rob Hand seems to be saying.

Is that just a difference of opinion or have I misunderstood something here?

The_Sundance_Kid
03-05-2009, 07:10 PM
And also if I have a night chart, Venus is in sect, and so has an essential [accidental or hybrid but not essential] dignity. It is in the 12th and so has an accidental debility. The fact that Venus is [EDIT in general] exalted in Pisces is of no consequence [ie sign does not equal house]. But according to the website, the fact that it is above the horizon at night also adds somewhat to the essential [accidental or somewhat hybrid, but not essential] dignity [but this is less important than the general question of being in sect].

Is this an accurate summation of the traditional school?

The_Sundance_Kid
03-05-2009, 08:26 PM
Sorry- the Venus I was talking about was in Scorpio, I mentioned Pisces in as much as alot of people might think Venus works well in the 12th house because the 12th house is associated with Pisces. But traditionally that is wrong. So I think I understand that now.

I edited my above post to make us feel like we're getting somewhere :)

That leaves one area of confusion:

You said:

"Saturn prefers to be above the horizon in a night chart and below the horizon in a day chart, just like the Sun and Jupiter. "

Website says:

"The gist of it is that diurnal planets prefer to be above the horizon during the day and below the horizon at night. "

:S

hiimnotcool
03-30-2009, 09:04 AM
Though you're correct about the sect of the planets, what really matters is what sign your Moon is in if you're a nocturnal birth. If it's in a Fire or Air sign then your trigon lords would be out of sect. This is very important. If your a day birth and your Sun is in water or earth signs then your trigon lords would be out of sect.

The tradition is pretty crazy and goes very in depth. Basically if a person has out of sect trigons then their life isn't going to operate at its maximum potential. If the trigons are in sect but in the 6th, 8th, or 12th then that is considered bad because those houses aren't connected to the ascendant. The ascendant is considered 'The Helm' of the ship. The trigons are the 'Winds' so when the trigons don't 'see' the ascendant it means the wind isn't able to direct the ship to the 'port' or destination.

" A cadent trigon lord will likely take one away from the center of activity (which is what Valens suggests in his examples). Now as to the 3rd house, it sees the helm by sextile which is called the "feeblest of aspects" which means that the rope is not strong and because it is close to the helm does not have much leverage, and so it is more likely to break because it needs to be pulled on forcefully, so a trigon lord so placed will be overworked, but it is better than nothing.



The Greek term for trigon is "stoicheion" which means "to conform to" or "to bring into line with" or "line things up". This is what steering is, which brings the ships bow into conformity with the course set by the captain.



If the chart is nocturnal, look to the Moon to see where the wind is summoned from. A Scorpio Moon has as trigon lords by night, Mars as primary, Venus by proxy and the Moon assisting both, so preferably the first trigon lord is in an angle and in its own places which indicates high potential.



As far as domicile lords go, the domicile lord of the Moon is the political officer which is that which posits the destination of the native. Rhetorius says that it is the bound lord of the Moon that does this. When this planet is the general time lord for the decennials it indicates when the life destiny comes into focus (by potential)."

The parts in quotes are from the creator of Delphic Oracle. Basically said the same thing as I did but in more detailed words.