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sparkations
11-09-2008, 07:19 PM
what are the indications of social phobia and epilepsy in the chart?

woolgatherer
11-09-2008, 10:53 PM
I have social phobia. I'm not sure what the indicators are, but I have some guesses about my chart.

I think my Moon (in the 1st house) opp Saturn is a big one. Moon in the 1st house indicates sensitivity, and I think the Saturn opposition shows a lack of confidence and maybe inhibition. I also have hardly any fire in my chart, and Mars is in its fall in Cancer, opp Neptune. So again there's a lack of confidence and assertiveness. I've read that my Mercury Neptune opposition can indicate some similar issues... sensitivity to the environment and insecurity.

I have a good friend with the same problem. He has Sun opposition Saturn and I think that puts a bit of a damper on his Leo Asc. Saturn is a singleton in his chart, it's the only planet in a water sign. His Moon is also in the 1st house and receives a few squares. Actually, both of our Moons are part of t-squares.

I could be wrong, but hard aspects from Saturn to personal planets is one thing I tend to think of. For me I think of social anxiety as more of an emotional thing than a 6th house kind of thing, but I guess there might be an inclination towards anxiety shown in the chart too... especially if panic attacks are involved.

nejispirit
11-10-2008, 02:25 AM
what are the indications of social phobia and epilepsy in the chart?
I too have social phobia, and have been treated; I have never been one to try and find illness in a chart of that manner, anxiety related at least, so I'm not sure what you "shouldn't" or "should" look for;

For me, I do not have a Moon/Saturn aspect that might indicate that nor do I have any BIG major Saturn aspects- but I do have Saturn in the 3rd, and in my communications I felt rather "restricted" and as I had to say the "right thing";

I also have Chiron opp IC, since I have MC opp IC, and that contributed to my anxiety I think; also, let me talk a bit about that- growing up, my father caused me GREAT anxiety by being pushy and violent, so of course that didn't help; I've always felt that somehow linked to my "foundation" - with General Anxiety/PTSD/Social Anxiety, I have always *feared* what the world thinks of me (public image) and it has always been hard to work because of that. Of course I still do it, but it's always a struggle.

Also, Chiron conj MC is in Gemini, which I have read many things on Gemini being correlated with anxiety at times.

I have Chiron sextile Sun as well, so that doesn't help.

aquarius7000
11-10-2008, 09:18 PM
Hi all,

what are the indications of social phobia and epilepsy in the chart?Sparkations, we would love to have some astrological input from your side too on your own question.:D


I could be wrong, but hard aspects from Saturn to personal planets is one thing I tend to think of.Woolgatherer, you're not completely off the mark, at least as far as only the social phobia side of the topic goes.

For social phobia, we should look for afflictions to the ruler of the 11th house (social circle/ society in general), whether planets placed in the 11th and/or either of the luminaries are (negatively) aspected by Saturn or Pluto, whether Sat/ Plu is located in the 11th house. However, before delving deeper into this, I do think that social phobia here is meant to be seen more as a by-product of epilepsy, so let us look for some indicators for epilepsy.

Epilepsy is a mental dysfunction caused by disturbances in the electrical signals produced by the brain. Therefore, I would begin by looking at Mercury (brain and nerves) and Uranus (electric signals and nerves), and their aspects to each other, esp challenging ones; plus also Uranus' aspects to the Moon. Also, Mercury could be afflicted by either of the malefics: Mars or Saturn. According to Lilly, in case of epilepsy, Mer is almost always in a cadent house. Then also look at how the ruler of the 3rd (mental activity/Merc's natural domain) is doing. Finally, look at the 6th (health in general) and 12th (mental health) houses.


I also have Chiron opp IC, since I have MC opp IC, and that contributed to my anxiety I thinkNejispirit, I too have MC opp IC, we all do;). However, I would not think that Chiron on the MC would have much to do with anxiety really. Similarly, "Chiron sextile Sun" is actually a positive aspect, which, according to Barbara Hand Clow, "produces a profound depth at an early age" (wow, whatever happened to me with that aspect:D).


:)aquarius7000

nejispirit
11-11-2008, 01:59 AM
Hi all,




Nejispirit, I too have MC opp IC, we all do;). However, I would not think that Chiron on the MC would have much to do with anxiety really. Similarly, "Chiron sextile Sun" is actually a positive aspect, which, according to Barbara Hand Clow, "produces a profound depth at an early age" (wow, whatever happened to me with that aspect:D).


:)aquarius7000
Heh, what I meant is that we all do not have Chiron opp IC (I meant to include the MC as in... of course we know that is there with the opp ;));

Oh no, it does indeed provoke much anxiety- the Midheaven in many ways *does* represent anxiety to me at times :rolleyes:. To me, at this point of my life after such a tramautic experience last year, I know that I am truly ~destined~ to share with the world my "wound" in that, to try and help; that is positive heh, but having Chiron conj MC intertwines it in a way that it is very anxiety provoking;

Think of Chiron with in any conj with any planet, is it not anxiety provoking at times?

Chiron sextile Sun, that could be "positive" but also negative, just as any aspect could be :D.

Look at it this way; my *Gemini* Chiron is involved in two yods and it is conj another Gemini, Midheaven;

Already Gemini as a sign can be linked to anxiety at times (when in the right situation, etc), so you put that with it and you anxiety; granted there are other factors than this to provoke anxiety, but my yods and this conj in Gemini help it manifest.

sparkations
11-19-2008, 05:07 PM
I ask this question cause I have dealt with social phobia all my life. I guess you can say it's related to my temporal lobe tumor that neurologists have pegged as 'congenital'. My chart has sun, moon, and mercury all square uranus-and I know uranus is connected with epilepsy.

I also have sun, moon, and mercury in virgo-which might explain the social phobia

Here's my chart:


http://x0f.xanga.com/e60c975028431221350174/m173643973.jpg
One thing that concerns me is whether I will ever have to undergo surgery for my brain tumor one day. It's frightening to think that the tumor will continue to grow slowly until I hit my 30s, 40s, and then i'll have to take it out. Also, I'm a strong believer in palmistry, and there's this break in my life lines in both hands. Just wondering whether there's some kind of indication of surgery in mid-life.

my birth data is : sept 13, 1985 Toronto 5:20 p.m

lillyjgc
11-20-2008, 06:32 AM
Sparkations:
Social phobia can be seen sometimes with luminaries in the 12th-esp if not well aspected. As Saturn is the planet of *fears* negative aspects to saturn could be involved.
Re your health-your sixth house is ruled by the moon-by the look of the chart (and without degrees it's hard to be sure) but it *appears* that the ruler of your sixth is cj merc and square uranus, which could result in seizures too.Jupiter usually rules tumorous growths and yours appears to be square pluto. (and in the ascendant, affecting your physical body).yes, you may at some time in your life require life saving surgery. I think the 8th house deals with surgery-you have the sun there-also possibly square uranus by the look of it, and uranus is ruled by jupiter, in your chart.
So sorry to hear of your health problems.
Lillyjgc

cindystubbs
03-16-2009, 04:25 AM
I have social phobia

I attribute it to the Quinunx between Saturn and Moon
in my chart.

freedomlover
03-16-2009, 04:32 AM
Quoting Aquarius7000 For social phobia, we should look for afflictions to the ruler of the 11th house (social circle/ society in general), whether planets placed in the 11th and/or either of the luminaries are (negatively) aspected by Saturn or Pluto, whether Sat/ Plu is located in the 11th house.
I have a dear friend who has severe social phobia- has to "white knuckle it" every time he goes out in public, or even is around people who doesn't know well. He has a Mercury(r) tight conjunction to Neptune in Scorpio in the 11th. Mercury rules his 7th and 9th, Neptune rules his 3rd. His Sun, ruler of the 8th, is also in Scorpio in the 11th. The 11th is a duplicated house. All this Scorpio is sextile his Saturn in Capricorn in the 1st. Saturn is exactly inconjunct Psyche(r) in Gemini in the 6th ( mental health).

FL

littlefury
03-20-2009, 10:18 PM
Epilepsy is a mental dysfunction caused by disturbances in the electrical signals produced by the brain. Therefore, I would begin by looking at Mercury (brain and nerves) and Uranus (electric signals and nerves), and their aspects to each other, esp challenging ones; plus also Uranus' aspects to the Moon. Also, Mercury could be afflicted by either of the malefics: Mars or Saturn. According to Lilly, in case of epilepsy, Mer is almost always in a cadent house. Then also look at how the ruler of the 3rd (mental activity/Merc's natural domain) is doing. Finally, look at the 6th (health in general) and 12th (mental health) houses.

Epilepsy is a neurological disorder not a mental one but yep, faulty electrics :) Epilepsy and mental difficulties can be connected if they are caused by the same thing i.e. brain damage or other physical brain abnormalities resulting in things like learning or behavioural disorders. There is a higher percentage of mental health problems with epileptics, depression, anxiety and such like but that's not a symptom of the physical condition itself but rather the result of trying to live with it. A lot of it is dependant on how severe it is and the individual's reaction to the medication. Someone can have relatively mild epilepsy but the psychological side effects of the medication could be fairly pronounced. One time I changed my meds I went to bed as one person and woke up a completely different one. It was all a very bad experience but had I checked my transits and seen the 6th house Mars/12th house Saturn opposition I would have postponed it. One of the medications that I'm on at the moment, Keppra, has been "affectionately" named Kepprage because it has a habit of making people go completely nuts. Fortunately it's not made me go nuts but I have noticed myself being more short tempered than I used to be. Having learnt from my previous experience I specifically chose an astrologically favourable day and things are better now than they've ever been :D All in all it's a very isolating condition, there is a social stigma attached to it, there are limitations on what you can and can't do which is massively frustrating, there's the fear of having a seizure in public and sometimes no matter how hard you try people just can't understand what it feels like. For the most part I shrug it off but I've had more than my fair share of "why me?" days and periods of depression.

As far as my birth chart is concerned I'm laying the blame at the feet of my 6th house Mercury squaring my 3rd house Uranus.

aquarius7000
03-21-2009, 07:45 AM
Fury, what I meant by mental dysfunction was not that epilepsy makes a mental case out of someone (though it could in some cases) or the like, but that the cause of this dysfunction lies in the brain, which controls the "electrics" or the neuroelectric signals, which are the Alpha and Omega in this case. A very simple way to understand (for the benefit of others) how epilepsy happens is that, in the brain, there are factors (signals) that trigger off activity and others that restrict or control it. During epilepsy this balance in the brain is disturbed and the brain loses control over the signals it is sending out for that patch of time. Astrologically speaking, like I said earlier, Mercury and Uranus should be looked at first, so Ura squ Merc is certainly one of the factors in your chart, but I am guessing there is more. Maybe you'd like to start a thread in the 'Med Astro' section, if it helps.

:)AQ7

littlefury
03-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Fury, what I meant by mental dysfunction was not that epilepsy makes a mental case out of someone (though it could in some cases) or the like, but that the cause of this dysfunction lies in the brain, which controls the "electrics" or the neuroelectric signals, which are the Alpha and Omega in this case. A very simple way to understand (for the benefit of others) how epilepsy happens is that, in the brain, there are factors (signals) that trigger off activity and others that restrict or control it. During epilepsy this balance in the brain is disturbed and the brain loses control over the signals it is sending out for that patch of time. Astrologically speaking, like I said earlier, Mercury and Uranus should be looked at first, so Ura squ Merc is certainly one of the factors in your chart, but I am guessing there is more. Maybe you'd like to start a thread in the 'Med Astro' section, if it helps.

:)AQ7

Mental relates to the mind though, not the physical brain. Mental dysfuction wouldn't show up in an EEG :p If there were a mental element involved then diagnosis and treatment would also involve a psychiatrist or psychologist which it doesn't. Incidentally, way back I asked the members of an epilepsy forum for their birth details and the commonest aspects were negative Merucry/Uranus ones. Unfortunately I don't have their charts anymore as I deleted them in an astro.com clear out but would make for an interesting comparison thread. I'll go back to the forum and see if the thread still exists so I can get their details and redo their charts. What would be really interesting is if their triggers also showed up in their charts. One of my triggers is related to my menstrual cycle because of the differing hormone levels but I'm not sure there's anything in my chart that would indicate me being more sensitive to hormonal changes than other women. Anyway, I'll see if I can find the thread :)

aquarius7000
03-21-2009, 12:08 PM
Mental relates to the mind though, not the physical brain. Mental dysfuction wouldn't show up in an EEG :pNo, it wouldn't. But what does show up here on this thread is that we are trying to help you!!
You are correct, mental refers to the mind, whilst epilepsy has its origin in the brain. I explained clearly the sense I used the word mental in (so can't understand the repeated discussion of it), and, any form of epilepsy wouldn't go without affecting the mental health and the mind, as would be the case with most/all ailments.
There is a higher percentage of mental health problems with epileptics, depression, anxiety and such like but that's not a symptom of the physical condition itself..

All the best,
AQ7

littlefury
03-21-2009, 02:16 PM
No, it wouldn't. But what does show up here on this thread is that we are trying to help you!!
You are correct, mental refers to the mind, whilst epilepsy has its origin in the brain. I explained clearly the sense I used the word mental in (so can't understand the repeated discussion of it), and, any form of epilepsy wouldn't go without affecting the mental health and the mind, as would be the case with most/all ailments.


All the best,
AQ7

But in the post where you first mentioned it you said "epilepsy is a mental dysfunction" as opposed to where you've just said that you meant mental in the sense of how a person's mental health is affected by it. The first implies it as a cause whilst the second as a result.

I definitely wouldn't say that any form of epilepsy wouldn't go without affecting mental health solely because it depends entirely upon the individual. Someone who has epilepsy which hasn't progressed beyond something like myoclonic jerks (where body parts frequently jerk to varying degrees) and who doesn't need medication is highly unlikely to experience any kind of effect on their mind or mental health since it doesn't have an impact on their life and the conscious mind is unaffected in this type of seizure. There are also social factors. There's a woman on one of the forums I go on who has seizures every day who for the most part is positive about her life because she has the support of family and friends. Plus her seizures are always during her sleep so she's completely unaware of them, her conscious mind doesn't experience them. Another however whose seizures are not very frequent, has a family who are completely in denial about her health and who tell her that it's all in her head and she's just doing it for attention. This is despite an diagnosis following an EEG! Understandably the poor girl suffers far more with mental health problems because of the impact her epilepsy has had on her life. Her epilepsy, like mine and most others, starts off with a partial seizure which can be thoroughly terrifying because you're completely conscious but your conscious mind has absolutely no control over your body. Fortunately these days my partial seizures are of a perceptual nature, kinda feels like reality has shifted and is more of a curious sensation than a scary one.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by trying to help me as the epilepsy is currently behaving itself. No jerking around on the floor for over two and a half years :D Things are better than they've ever been although I shan't say any more than that because as soon as I start thinking that I've finally got it licked it'll pull one on me. Sometimes I swear it's listening :p I have had bad periods with it, had a nasty experience with some medication where I suffered from the psychological side effects to the point of becoming suicidal but a change in medication and a change in consultants put me back on the road to sanity.

I really hope I'm not coming off as narky or anything here, it's certainly not my intention. I've read many a post on epilepsy forums where people have gone crazy because someone's dared to say the word epileptic instead of person with epilepsy or fit instead of seizure and that kind of oversensitivity is just unecessary.

:)

Oops, almost forgot, the thread on the epilepsy forum where I asked for people's birth details has long gone. Could always look at the charts of celebrities who share a long term health condition (not just epilepsy) for comparison although I can't think offhand of anyone.

littlefury
03-22-2009, 07:29 PM
Something that came to me last night was the 2nd house as it's the house that deals with self worth. Because someone with low self esteem doesn't place much on value themselves the likelihood is that they do not expect others to value them either and would be more inclined to avoid social interaction. It's what my therapist calls a "negative prediction", where you associate a certain situation with a certain outcome. With a social phobia I would assume it's a case of shunning others before they have the chance to shun you. That kinda leads to the 12th house as it becomes an act of self sabotage.

Another thing I thought of was the tenth house as it involves how we would like to be seen by the outside world, our social status. Depending on the individual, something like epilepsy could be seen as a threat to the way that they're viewed by society especially when the condition doesn't present itself until they're an adult. I was 17 (not exactly an adult but definitely a particularly sensitive time of life) when I was diagnosed and I had a massive issue with it. I didn't really know an awful lot about the condition, I had a school friend whose brother had it and the other children at school were absolutely awful to him. They picked on him and were downright cruel. My mum worked at a special needs school and a lot of children there had so I did associate it with handicaps. The crux of the situation was that I was picked on at school because of the way I looked. I didn't have perfect skin, teeth, hair and didn't wear the "right" clothes so I was given a hard time. Already being paranoid about my physical appearance, having a condition that would have me thrashing about on the floor in a most unattractive fashion was an absolute disaster. It would just give my peers more fodder to damage my already fragile self esteem. Fortunately I never had any seizures whilst at school but to this day my biggest fear is how I physically appear to others and I tense up whenever I see a group of teenagers approaching, bracing myself for some nasty remark. I won't set foot outside my front door without a full face of make up. I do think that people are perhaps more sensitive to what others think of them than they'd like to admit and this would have an effect on them socially.

I personally have 7th house Sun square 10th house Moon and 11th house Saturn square 2nd house Pluto as well as Chiron conjuncting my MC. Those particular 2nd house/10th house associations do make sense to me although whether they do to anyone else is another thing entirely :p On another 10th house note, my best friend suffers from agoraphobia and has Saturn conjunct her ascendant and squaring her 10th house Chiron. In the early days she would swing from extremes, she'd go out and be all gregarious and then when others didn't react in quite the way she'd hoped she'd completely withdraw. As things progressed she ended up being permanantly withdrawn to the point where just walking to the shop round the corner would cause a panic attack. Things have changed so much for her in the last 5 years though, she has a job she enjoys, she uses public transport and is looking to leave home in the near future to move in with her boyfriend. She's still very uncomfortable at events with lots of other people (she has a particular dislike of weddings) and an unexpected occurrance can bring on anxiety. She's done so much and the way her life is now would have been unimaginable 10 years ago. Things probably won't ever be perfect but that girl deserves massive credit for getting where she is inspite of the obstacles she faced *glows with best friend pride*

KosmicMind
03-23-2009, 12:27 AM
I have had extreme difficulties with social phobia for quite some time, it really become the most severe around age 11, and escalated all throughout my life even until now. I've gotten a better grip on it recently, mainly forcing myself into social situations to gain confidence. In my opinion, from my own chart, and the charts of others with social phobia or communicative problems, there is always an affliction to the mercury/third house/gemini archetype. One of the first indications I see in Sparkations chart is the north node in the third house, I have this myself. Pluto is also in the 9th House, which gives more emphasis to the north node in the third. Basically the north node in the third house is pushing us to integrate into daily life or within society, but there is a strong pull to withdraw into the self and shut out social interactions with others. From a karmic or reincarnation standpoint, the soul is more inclined towards the inner dimensions of the self and the mind, and has spent several incarnations withdrawn from the public keeping mostly to itself. In this life, with the north node third house, the soul is being forced to communicate with others, to teach the wisdom they have gained on their inner journey. There is a lot of fear when it comes to being put on the spot socially, simply because such things are completely new experiences, and naturally there is resistance to the change that must take place in this life. In early life, these individuals are usually rather introverted as children, and tended to avoid social situations with other children and as a result they lack a lot of experience in early development when it comes to communication with others, or integrating into social situations.

The second indication I have noticed with individuals with either social phobia or problems with communication is some kind of synthesis between Chiron and either Mercury/Third House/or Gemini. For instance, I have Chiron in the third house (in Gemini), which again, shows a crisis of integration, a woundedness in my ability to effectively communicate with others or to interact within the daily world. I also have Chiron on my Saturn/Mercury midpoint. With these connections there is often a fear of being seen as stupid, or a sense of intellectual inferiority, but in reality these individuals are usually quite intellegent but hide this from others out of fear of being wrong or persecuted. Also, Chiron being the wounded healer, can create actual wounds associated with whatever it touches, something we must heal. When Chiron is involved there is often some sort of health condition or problem that is the physical manifestation of the spiritual or karmic blockages that are being held in or that need to be dealt with. Naturally, when dealing with the Gemini/Mercury/Third House archetype, the condition is related to something mental or cerebral. For me, I have had severe clinical depression and social anxiety, and have been on and off various medications for some time (I've recently thrown them all out and have been utilizing natural methods, such as orthomolecular medicine which is really helping a lot). I often use the condition as an excuse to avoid social situations or interactions, and sometimes I feel that on a more spiritual level I have manifested this condition to force myself to deal with it, to really get a hold of my mind and the way I communicate. In sparkations chart, there is a Square (within about 1 degree of orb) between Mercury in Virgo and Chiron in Gemini. Interestingly more, there is actually a T-Square involving Uranus (11th house) Opposition Chiron (Third House) Square Mercury (7th House). In my opinion this is likely the major factor of the eplisepsy condition which has ties to social phobia and a crisis of integration. It would be interesting to note major tranists or progressions activating this T-Square and their relation to the condition. In fact, Saturn recently conjoined Mercury back in September 2008, about two months prior to this post.

Another point of interest in Sparkations chart that really draws my attention is the third house cusp with Aries at 29 degrees and its antithesis 9th house cusp at 29 degrees of Libra. The 29th degree is called the Anaretic degree, and if a planet or point (or even house cusp perhaps in this case) touches this degree it shows that there is a major crisis in this life associated with the symbolism of whatever is effected. I'm not that well versed in this, as information on it is rather slim, but from what I've studied it holds pretty true, at least for me. I have Mercury on the 29th degree of Cancer, again, adding emphasis to mental functions and communicative abilities. From a karmic standpoint there is supposed to be something the individual must learn, or will be forced to resolve in this life, as it has been something they have avoided over various incarnations and now is the time to deal with it. The individual with a planet or point on the anaretic degree tends to oscillate between extremities in regards to the symbolism of what is placed there. For me I tend to go through periods of being completely social and integrated, and then suddenly withdraw and go through a period of complete isolation and introsepction. With the 3rd/9th House axis falling on this critical point, this perhaps corroborates further the observations above.

cindystubbs
03-23-2009, 06:37 AM
KosmicMind, I've Chiron in 3rd, never thought about it being related to my social phobia.
What about planets at Zero degrees, I think I've read zero is the same as the 29th degree. I have Jupiter in Libra 0 degrees
Pluto in Virgo 0 degrees
I have Uranus on the house cusp in Leo.

I thought only Libra to be important, being part of the cardinal cross.
I've wondered if these planets could have an effect on both signs.

I've also wondered if Uranus on the 9th house cusp is also effecting the 8th.
I have wondered, how I was "wounded" by being so poor at a rich school must have been fate, for it to be in my chart this way at birth. They say the way to tell is if you are fine when you are alone. That's me! Chart is here if anyone has insight to share.