The Great Debate - Reincarnation vs. One Physical Life

Arian Maverick · #1 02-19-2006, 09:32 PM

On Johan's request, I have created this new thread to continue the discussion started on Amzolt's Introduction Board. Here's a brief overview:

Alex:

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If I wrote about Karma it would be through my filter of non-belief in reincarnation. I feel that people's experiences in this area are valid but actually refer to deeper aspects of their unconscious mind.

Lapis:

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As one who's remembered portions of "past lives" since age 5, this would be interesting. Also how could karma work if no other incarnations past/future/concurrent exist in which to cause this cause and effect effect!

Alex:

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Karma is a word that may or may not refer to actual past lives. It can be interpreted without reference to those lives...

Lapis:

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More importantly why do you think that all of these 'memories' etc. are only coming from the subconscious mind and nowhere else?

Alex:

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Where else would they come from?

Lapis:

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Do you believe that we get only one shot at physical life in physical reality?

Alex:

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Yes.

EDIT: I'm a double Aries, so debating is in my blood...but for others who are not so inclined, this can also be an area for friendly discussion

Aquarian Maverick

amzolt · #2 02-20-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Maverick

Lapis:

Quote:

As one who's remembered portions of "past lives" since age 5, this would be interesting. Also how could karma work if no other incarnations past/future/concurrent exist in which to cause this cause and effect effect!

Alex:

Quote:

Karma is a word that may or may not refer to actual past lives. It can be interpreted without reference to those lives...

...this can also be an area for friendly discussion

Aquarian Maverick

I enter this discussion with some trepidation since most of my certainty that there is only one physical life on earth comes from various faith-based proofs. That's not to say I have no rational reasons for my beliefs.

I, too, have had "past life" memories. Back in the 70s, I used my Aries Sun and Mars in Cancer to plunge into the very popular Past Life Regression techniques. To this day I have vivid memories of two lives that spanned over 100 years and two continents. The amazing thing about these vivid, long-term recollections is that my "waking" life has no parallel. My "normal" memory is fluid and emotional and certainly not visual to much degree at all...

Still, my studies in astrology and psychology have led me to see these as deep occurrences in my unconscious mind. I have no scholarly, straight-forward proofs for my beliefs. They consist of many coherent yet seemingly independent factors:

* One is my experience in Active Visualization. This is a technique similar to past life regression in its preparations but different in goal. The task is to stay very aware in the Now but let your mind "go where it wants". I have a rich and royal history of using this technique to get to know and explore with my Anima (Muse). Since the effect of these "memories" is the same as the "past lives", I'm able, in my mind, to attribute them to a similar source...
* Faith enters its unruly head... Long after my experience with my Anima began, I converted to a Faith that didn't believe in reincarnation. I didn't have to accept that as dogma (it wasn't presented that way either) since I'd already found my own "other explanation". Basically, one rationale in this arena goes like this: Why would a loving God make us come back here so many times when it's such a huge struggle. I realize some will say that reincarnation is in the Hindu scriptures but then we're into the muddy waters of scriptural interpretation, where I will not go in public

* Now, of what use is the concept of Karma if there is no physical reincarnation?
Well...
I do believe that we "re-incarnate" ourselves within this One life on earth. Just look to the TransPersonal transit aspects in your chart...
From what I've gathered in my studies, Karma means, basically, "unfinished business" and Dharma means "spiritual Right". Some have given these concepts to the South and North Nodes (still, more is needed in the chart to fully cover the concepts).
* And, on a very personal note, I firmly believe in Karma since I've named my own company, Benevolence In Dharmic Exploration, and without the fertilizer of Karma, Dharma could never grow...

johan · #3 02-20-2006, 06:56 PM

Alexander,

A child dies when he is one year old...karma,dharma the whole story is gone....

And I don't believe in religions,or better i do believe in all religions.They all had the intention to lead people to the One...

amzolt · #4 02-20-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan

Alexander,
A child dies when he is one year old...karma,dharma the whole story is gone....

Can you expand on what you're saying here... ?

johan · #5 02-20-2006, 07:07 PM

How can you learn of life when you die if you are one year old?How can you experience earthly happiness or sad things if you die that age,if you only live once?

amzolt · #6 02-20-2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan

How can you learn of life when you die if you are one year old?How can you experience earthly happiness or sad things if you die that age?

Oh, my...
Here we go into what I fear may be debate...
First, the idea that we "must" live on this earth to fulfill our spiritual mission is the "norm"; there are still more people living past one year to make that a fairly valid assumption. But, my belief is that the "next life" (non-physical) is the Real life and children who die "prematurely" are "luckier" then those of us who must stay and struggle...

johan · #7 02-20-2006, 07:27 PM

No,I will not go debating,Alexander

I don't have the intention of convincing you that you are 'wrong' and that i am 'right'.
But i have red several books of children who remembered things and than this was verified.
For instance there was a boy on school who heard a placename and then said:i have lived there!They went to that place(this boy was reincarnated pretty fast)and in a room there was his father in his previous life too and he recognized him immediately.If you would like i will search for this story on the internet,so you can read it.

And i already knew that you expected my question.
So,please shall we stop this discussion Alexander,we have just different views and i think neither of us will change his view for now!

amzolt · #8 02-20-2006, 07:31 PM

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Originally Posted by johan

.If you would like i will search for this story on the internet,so you can read it.

Please do; I would like to read it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan

...please shall we stop this discussion Alexander,we have just different views and i think neither of us will change his view for now!

We could stop but we both seem to want to discuss with fairness and equity. I'm not against expressing my views and commenting on others. But, I will bow to your wishes; since, I hesitated to enter the discussion in the first place...

johan · #9 02-20-2006, 07:36 PM

Okay,Alexander,here is what i suggest,i will look up this story and will pm it to you.Once you have red it,we will continue the discussion.

Are you okay with this?

amzolt · #10 02-20-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan

Okay,Alexander,here is what i suggest,i will look up this story and will pm it to you.Once you have red it,we will continue the discussion.

Are you okay with this?

Absolutely o.k.

Lapis · #11 02-21-2006, 10:42 PM

" Faith enters its unruly head..."

So true......

As I've stated prior, I get zero enjoyment from 'debating' and so I offer only this as my current personal belief.

I believe that we (physical humanity and everyone else) are so unimaginably Creative in so many unimaginable ways and levels all at the same 'time', that we simply don't have the ability yet to even begin to know what all and where all we are. At least not from this vantage point, using these tiny consciousness tools!

amzolt · #12 02-22-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapis

" Faith enters its unruly head..."

So true......
we simply don't have the ability yet to even begin to know what all and where all we are. At least not from this vantage point, using these tiny consciousness tools!

This is why I've learned to not take information as "truth" unless I have many supporting verifications. I can hold many ideas as "provisional" but the store of Truth I hold has gotten smaller over time--smaller but "deeper"...

~ Alex

Elianah · #13 03-04-2006, 02:01 PM

For myself, I do believe in reincarnation. I also understand the "One Life Only" side of the question and I will defend any person who holds that position because it is part of that person's journey at this time. I do not have to agree with the position in order support that person's right to hold it.

There is something that the holders of both positions are to learn from each other in order to bring third way into view. It is in exploration of the grey matter where we do our greatest growth.

This does not mean that the current holders of both positions will vacate those positions, nor are they required to do so. The quantum energy from the exploration will affect the discussion and allow it to evolve in its own manner in its own time in this particular reality.

Elianah

amzolt · #14 03-04-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elianah

... I will defend any person who holds that position .... I do not have to agree with the position in order support that person's right to hold it.
There is something that the holders of both positions are to learn from each other in order to bring third way into view...
This does not mean that the current holders of both positions will vacate those positions, nor are they required to do so.
Elianah

Whew!
Sure wish we had a few politicians with views like yours!!!

~ Alex

saturn_man · #15 03-09-2006, 07:33 AM

Opinion can be argued forever. If you are really interested in finding out the truth, read what a 4th degree Initiate wrote on the subject of Life after death:

http://www.rosicrucian.com/lbd/the%2...nd%20death.pdf

Allen

Lapis · #16 03-10-2006, 01:15 AM

saturn man,

Hi and thanks for that link. I have a couple of his books along with many of the others of his time period. They all brought through so much great and long hidden esoteric information to the masses. Great stuff!

Lapis · #17 03-10-2006, 01:16 AM

OK, you know how sometimes some posts get weird and do a double post back to back? Well this one just did a triple post.......trying to delete and clean up. How come we can't totally delete our own posts Radu?

Mercury Rx???

Lapis · #18 03-10-2006, 01:17 AM

solar flares?

Light · #19 03-10-2006, 08:49 AM

Reinforcing messages?