Do you believe in the afterlife?

[Astrocurious]

Do you? If so why, if not why? Apparently, there isn't any scientific proof leading to God's existance including the afterlife so at times, it's difficult for me to believe they exist. However a large part of me does, but a small part of me doesn't. I've read numerous books on the subject of near death experiences about those who claim to have seen "the light" and such........ but "scientifically" explained...this phenomena of what is seen could just be a result of oxygen deprivation from the brain which causes these visions.. So with all that being said...I'm afraid to die because I don't know for sure, I've been very emotional lately, thinking about death alot... so any insight is truly appreciated.

[Miss Saturn]

Always a controversial question, I like it . My personal belief is that there is an afterlife. But I can see the opposing sides view, the atheist people who don't believe in god, in that we don't have physical proof that a higher being, or afterlife exists. Yet the atheists do not have proof that it does not exist we could go round in circles, in these types of debates. They still need to be discussed. It is these kind of questions you usually ask after going through the crisis and the emotional turmoil of the 8th house, you may have just experienced a close one die, and naturally the questions of the 9th appear, where do we go when we die, what is the meaning of life, what is the purpose for suffering, pain and loss. You work out your own philosophy of life, and this influence's the way you respond to situations in your life.

In one way believing eases the pain of the 8th, you may find comfort in knowing that the people you have lost still exist in the afterlife. There is hope and optimism that we can grow, move forward, learn from life and eventually reach the afterlife ourselves. Everyone will reach their own personal beliefs, maybe according to their own chart. I do believe their is an afterlife, we return to the source of where we have come from spiritually. The 12th house in astrology usually relates to this, return. I watched a couple of video's on this and I quite liked Einsteins quote: he believed people were only good because they feared punishment, this can be in that some people are only good to one another because they don't want the consequences. They fear going to a **** like place. In reality you should have compassion for people because you really care, not because of god or fear of ****. I also find it hard to accept so many different religions, I believe we all live under one roof . Although everyone has a right to believe what they want to.

Here are a couple of vids on both sides of the fence. I enjoy reading quotes, although some are little blurred in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZukn...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnL2mku4OCQ

P.S To moderators, I wasn't swearing but was talking about ell with a H, maybe you could re-think putting this word back into the astrology community's dictionary. Thank you . Or you can just tell me to go to **** .

[starlink]

Hi Miss S. Why not type it like this next time: H*E*L*L*. After all, we are talking here of Heaven and H*e*l*l* and not swearing. So it should be seen in this context. See if this is also being dottet out
cheers, Star.

[starlink]

Astrocurious, I always think differently. Why would they only let us live? What is the reason for giving someone just one life and that is it! does not sound logical to me.So there must be a reason for us living here.There is no purpose whatsoever to just let us live and then hoops, nothing anymore. There is a reason for everything, also for "why we are given life".

I firmly believe that we get many lives to live in order to correct our mistakes in former lives. What I find a pitty is, that we do not remember the other life. In our current life, we just have to assume that we must have been really awful in a former life, when in this life we are being treated dreadfully or fall from one calamity into the other.(being punished for things we might have done wrong in our former live).

When we have a relatively good life now, then we are on the way up as it were. In the end, when we really have cleansed ourselves from all impurities, we then can probably stay in some spiritual sphere or being send back into yet another life as spiritual teachers.

What is the difference (feeling wise) anyways between dying and NOT being reincarnated and dying and BEING reincarnated. In both cases we will not know what happened to us. When you are dead you dont remember anything anymore and when you are re-incarnated you also dont remember anymore.

There are only a few people who do have the ability (mediums) who can remember and be in touch with the spiritual world. To me this does not have to be scientifically proven. Look at the Sabian Symbols and read how they came to us. They are magnificent and "out of this world". That is proof enough to me.

You wrote that these things are not proven scientifically.
There have (and they are still doing it because I saw a programm on TV about it) been studies to prove that there is a life after death. People who died on the operating table and came back after 2 or so minutes, could tell exactly what was INSIDE some medical tool box!! They had seen it during the time they were dead. They had been brought into the operating theater already in a drowsy state, not able to look at what was there. They could tell exactly what the other people in there looked like even though they had their eyes closed from the beginning. This had nothing to do with oxigen depriviation.

Honestly, dont try to prove everything. Just find it in your heart to accept and then get rid of that fear.

Cheers, Star.

[tsquare]

I don't think scientists can stand the fact that not everything fits into their little boxes.....I wouldn't worry about it.
There is no point in fearing death or even the unknown because one can not prepare for the unknown.
I know people as well as myself who can remember the before life or even their past lives.....it isn't anything to worry about, nobody really dies, and nobody ever gets "recycled" they just forget(for the most part), they are recoverable.
But this is my truth, based upon my personal experience.
It is best to focus on what one CAN accomplish in and with this life they have right now. That is the joy of it, that's what makes it fun.
If fear of death is bothering one it is helpfull to focus on that which is in ones hands, what they can controll....people create beliefs because of their fear, and because of what they do not know.

Personally I am aware of hope but I do not subscribe to it when it comes to afterlives.
I am a big fan of knowing and knowing the truth, this comes with the need to say often, I DONT KNOW if one does not, and the ability to be OK with that for the time being till one does know....this is the problem with belief structures, people subscribe to them when they were just anothers knowing, then they become peoples beliefs by subscription, then the truth is lost. They then errect giant structures with steeples and worship the symbols insteading of seeking the truth.....
Religion has little to do with belief, and more with science then science often wants to admidt.
It just eventually decends down to a level where people are not seeking truth they are bowing and asking for repentance for things they can not even remember...currently..there are mechanics to this....
One could even acuse scientists of belief while they put a billion different forms of data into a whole and call that fact....they believe their sences to the point of nothing else being real in some cases.......
Instead of looking at everyone elses experiences it is often best to trust in ones own...

In my own experience of recovering times that I have died, physically, by rememberance, I have encountered the fears of that death and the loss that I was not willing to experience at that time, by confronting those fears , and acknowledging the loss, which I had not, I have experinced great relief and it has made this life all the more worthwhile, because of the recovery of self from that moment of loss where I was still stuck partially...in another time and space.....
It isnt that people have subconcious minds it is that they have occluded minds...they do not remember because they at their currnet state do not have the faculties to...they still can, but they must develop them for themselves.

Astrology seems to govern this somewhat as well...it gives charectoristics to the current body, chanells through which it can use various things....I am still not to sure on how it all works out....reincarnation wise...it is my main reason for studying the subject.....but I do know that one can unburdon karma, and one can unburdon ones past and even future experiences, change events and such....but it depends upon ability of the individual, and all of their decissions not to for various reasons that they have either decided upon or have been forced to decide upon by various methods of being knuckled under.....
By the recovery of those decissions the individual can then undecide their limitations, even beliefs, recovering lost ability and truth.......
I am not an adept, but I have seen things that many would never believe, or would absolutely believe....neither is anything I want personally, I would rather people had the ability to look for themselves and not make others wrong for what they do see.......there is rightness.....that is part of survival and human living, but there is also tolerance......I see conflicts with this when people start to look for something to belong to after they have had an experience, possitive or negative or both....there are many groups out there that are traps, and are dangerous, that carry half truths, in looking for truth ones attention usually gets stuck to the truths yet the problem is often that it is burried under lies......Truth has little to do with beliefs.......
So no, I do not believe in the afterlife, I know a little of it after contacting the last few deaths.....I worry about it less now.
The past experiences of a person largly effect a persons present life and what they even care about........
All akasha is modifyable...
I am afraid to say that because some astrologers may get upset about the maps not matching up with the territory, but people can work on various things concering the elements and ones temperment, this is covered some in hermetic science, which also pays attention to astrology, somewhat, it just doesn't believe in the fatalistic aspect, by having techniques that alters fates.
Remedies....
Even the tibetans with their astrology use it for remedies, I am amazed that it is a part of their education system, or at least was, I am not sure of today....I viewed the classes that the Dalai Lama took at one time and astrology was one of them while he was in school.....I don't know everything that is going on over there.

I think the best thing to know about astrology is that a person is the one who is creating it by their bringing their future into existence, through their past and present, by their postulates that they have made.....
The accentuation should be on pesonal responsability. A person can change their mind about what they can remember.


Alot of times what happens when a peson dies is that they leave their body, they look down upon it....this also happens durring times of major stress, even sheer terror can eject a person out of their body, so can drugs, none of these are great ways to be outside of the body, and can turn on even rememberances of past deaths and such...this is one of the reasons why assension experiences can be dangerous, because then a person remembers the last time that they died...in a subtle way....alot of memoires can flood the inidividual waking up alot of things in the bodies like a chain reaction.
This is the reason for people being outside of their bodies durring opperations remembering things durring the opperations, I had this happen to me as well durring an opperation I had on a broken jaw, I could see the body bellow me and watched the doctors durring the operation....I could see the body was suffering...a person is really a composite of many things, one of them including spirit, I think another includes soul which is more of the body then the spirit......it may even die at death...I'm not sure....or that may be another part of a person that IS recycled, scooped up in the bardo and brought with one somehow....I know a persons unconciousness is.
Mabie this just has to do with higher, middle and lower self.....There are many levels a person can wake up at, there are other dimensions, and planes of existence, one can even live at many at once in a locked up chain of sorts......one can also be aware at lower ones while being blocked from higher ones....I have heard of those who are awake at higher ones that are blocked at lower ones.....cant get in or whatever.....
Consciousness also implies unconciousness as well....so increasing ones conciousness may be good, but it still means that there are unknowns.....
Totally awake and alive might mean no conciousness......

I went off course a bit there.....
I wouldn't worry about death, it happens, if there is no imediate threat why worry, if it is a past experience or if one has seen someone else die, or a loved one, it may be that, or a restimulation of a past incident of death, it could be anything, I have seen EFT work on fears before, it seems to move them off of hte individual after something has been woken up in the bodies fields like a fear or whatever that the person does not want or even doesn't know where it comes from fully, they may be partially aware of it, but it comes to the persons awareness, with eft it doesnt always have to...it's a bit like trama hunting, unberdoning the subconcious that is on automatic, good for the bodies energy fields and straitening out it's programs.

Tsquare

[Miss Saturn]

Thanks for the tip star, I shall type all my swear words like this from now on . But H*ell is not really a swear word is it. Only if you use in that context i.e to H*ell with you.

I like your thoughts on the afterlife starlink. Believing in something you can't see takes a lot of faith. Even if God suddenly showed himself/herself today, it would still be difficult for a lot of minds to comprehend, people who don't believe in god or the afterlife would think we were all suffering from a mass delusion, or there was something funny in the water. I hate not knowing the answers, or being certain of what happens when you die, I can only believe our souls live on.

p.s (although I am not sure God has a gender, although I do imagine him as a male figure for some reason)

[virgo96019]

This is right up my alley

Originally Posted by Astrocurious

Do you? If so why, if not why?

Yes, I do, no doubt in my mind! We all have a higher self, I prefer to use the word soul, but first you have to bring it out or more importantly notice it's there. There are so many signs and indictions but if you don't notice them, they slip right on by. I've found the best way to bring out your higher self is through meditiation, to recognize the point where our conscious mind and subconscious mind meet, in a way it's like being awake and asleep at the same time but not quite, it's being on a different frequency than the physical, this is when our higher self emerges in all different ways. People who are more spiritually evolved will have an easier time than people who aren't.

Originally Posted by Astrocurious

Apparently, there isn't any scientific proof leading to God's existance including the afterlife so at times, it's difficult for me to believe they exist.

That's because it's not a science, so it can't be explained scientifically...I can't spell!

Originally Posted by Astrocurious

However a large part of me does, but a small part of me doesn't.

This is key! If a large part of you does than I would have to assume you've had experiences that you consciously don't remember but subconsciously you know all too well. And because you are bringing this out in the open you're probably heading toward a spiritual awakening of some sort...that's how it starts

Originally Posted by Astrocurious

I've read numerous books on the subject of near death experiences about those who claim to have seen "the light" and such........ but "scientifically" explained...this phenomena of what is seen could just be a result of oxygen deprivation from the brain which causes these visions..

This makes no sense to me, if your brain is deprived of oxegyn, it's dead, how on earth can can we be having visions when our brains are not functioning...because they're not visions I've had an NDE(I won't get into details), I died in my sleep, alone. I knew I was dying but I couldn't wake up, I couldn't take a breath. I was brought back...I have no idea why but I was. Once you've had these experiences there's no mistaking what it is, it's something that can't be explained by science and just because something can't be explained by science doesn't mean it doesn't exist

Originally Posted by Astrocurious

So with all that being said...I'm afraid to die because I don't know for sure, I've been very emotional lately, thinking about death alot... so any insight is truly appreciated.

Death is a part of life, the soul lives on, our physical body is just a shell for our soul. We live, we die, we are reborn.

You might want to try to do a search on pre-existance, and past lives, particularly childrens past lives. There is alot of info out there, and coming from small children makes it so much more interesting and believable, there are children from all different parts of the world that tell generally the same story of how they got here and where they were before they were born. It's fascinating!

Like I said, I have a feeling this is all coming out because your ready to discover your spiritual side, once you do you won't be afraid, lol it will be a relief!

Good luck to you on your new journey!

[Wilmingtonian]

I think a belief in god and a belief in an "afterlife" are very different things. I also think there are many, many ways to define "afterlife" (from Paradise to merging with the ether or whatever you might believe).

I, for one, believe in both. This is a faith thing, but I don't think it's completely unfounded in science.

If you think about it, everything is made of energy. Energy is never created or destroyed (Sophomore year physics is coming back to me now). Psychic energy exists and can be scientifically measured. (A great resource for that are the papers Russell Targ has written about his research at the Stanford Research Institute.) If we can measure that "higher self", we know it's there. So, where does that energy go? Must go somewhere...

[Michael]

I found this: http://www.victorzammit.com/
Although I do not know if it is reliable or not.

[Miss Saturn]

I think it is still unfounded by science, what actual physical proof can prove there is an afterlife. Although there are secret experiments that probably go on. Where is God then if not in the afterlife?

[Gem Doccaus]

We must reincarnate, because our bodies do not live long enough to achieve what our souls set out to accomplish.

[tsquare]

We must reincarnate, because our bodies do not live long enough to achieve what our souls set out to accomplish.

I think a person could accomplish alot in one lifetime if they knew how.
Mabie even finish......
Inmortality goes against every rule of this universe....
the cycles here are differnet...things start, change, then stop....sort of like create, survive, die...that's the cycle of the physical body,
It is created, it grows, it peaks, then it declines and dies....thats it for the physical part....but whatever life is there goes somewere.....yet life and living are two different things...
That which is imortal never dies.......
This may have something to do with entropy, that which comes before energy.
I think a spirit has many bodies, and when it is within one it takes responsability for it, and that which isn't taken care of traps the person...sort of like unfinished bussiness..............a person acts out their past karma and unfinshed bussiness untill it is resolved. meaning done, finished, unmocked..a person does not do that stuff anymore on some type of automatic unknowing basis in a lower awareness.......
We've all been arround a very very long time.....we are just very very forgetfull.....
I read something the other day that I liked.....somewhat...

Reincarnation And Why Nobody Cares

The reason nobody cares about reincarnation very much is that it is broadly considered that the past is over, and people are not up to remembering, much less confronting it. Most people are not up to confronting the present. Most people live day to day, some live week to week, some live month to month, and the rare live year to year. It is the very rare individual that is taking responsibility for their lifetime. The idea of taking responsibility for the next 400 or 400,000 years is above most people's reality level.
People don't want to recall what has happened in their previous lifetimes, so they don't, and they insist they have never lived before. They like playing innocent. Innocence is one of the most prominent dramatisations on the planet. This innocence is their third worst enemy. Drugs are their second, and self-pity is the first. If mankind is to be whisked out of existence, it will be by self-pity. Self-pity is a devastating manifestation of vanity, which is the supreme sin, if there are any, and that would depend on your reality level of sin. Your reality level of sin would depend on what you subscribe to, and what you subscribe to would depend on your postulates. Your postulates depend upon those you have stuck on you during impacts in the prior lives you are pretending you did not live. Such is the circle of self-deterioration that goes: self-pity, vanity, sin, subscription, postulates, impacts sticking postulates. These 6 in a circle, mankind has responded to with apathy - "who cares". The Tibetans by swinging prayer wheels about it hourly will not cause it to erase. All six exist, like mad, on just about anyone breathing. Period.


I hope I have made it crystal clear why people don't care about reincarnation. They cannot stand the heat of today, they claim. Actually today is effortless beauty, and all the heat they feel on today is from their past. Don't waste your time trying to explain this to anyone. Let them explain it to you as their very own discovery and truth. It will be worth something to them then. It is their own stark discovery.
In working with past lives, people get confused about how much of a being they are or were. This is called "spiritual endowment". It is not a fixed determination unless you consider it to be so by yourself.
People don't care about reincarnation because they have dropped below caring, below any degree of time, and below responsibility. They are not up to realising their past, and certainly don't want to hear about their future, because it is not that pleasant. The past and future are quite related, and especially for someone in this not-caring condition.
There have been over 100 million people in this century that have died by non-natural means. In other words, they were killed. Such impacts stick the thoughts, ideas, and feelings of that moment on them, effecting all subsequent postulates and thusly, lives. These stuck viewpoints are eraseable. Until then nobody cares, and a **** goes on, but nobody cares about that either, until you take their drugs away. Then people care a lot. This is the condition, which is not to be confused with the nature, of man. The nature of man is generally admirable.

[Astrocurious]

Thank you all so much for your input. I like the idea of reincarnation, I do not like the idea of eternal paradise like what many of us vision like just flying around doing nothing all day ....hanging around...floating on a cloud or whatever......not my kind of paradise then again without an ego, it may be wonderful, hehehe. Take care all.

[KayBug]

I believe in afterlife in that when I die I will go to be with the Lord.

[Neptune Rising]

Nice question Astrocurious.

Interesting way of viewing this, everyone is different. My idea - we all have a different view of the world and generally agree on a few things, eg, a tree is green, has branches in the air and roots in the ground. We all think this is so, but we cannot reach a general consensus of what the 'afterlife' is or even if it is so. The tree we can touch, smell, see, maybe even taste, but the afterlife I think is on a vibrational level we are not in tune with yet.

Ego. I think the afterlife cannot be judged using ego. When we are thinking of whether we are right or wrong, we are using ego, it needs to know if its right or wrong. But afterlife there is no ego (maybe).

Afterlife, in my view, could be a change of form. We are all vibrating energy, molecules and other such things, vibrating to form our whole being, our bodies and thoughts, and energy cannot just disapear, it has to change form. So I guess we change form when our current body dies.

NR

[Sivitri]

The circle of life... Man is trapped in this circle of life... From what i know... Death concludes the lessons you learnt while alive... so life after life... people learn their mistakes.... so after many reincarnations certain people gain wisdom from the accumulations of wisdom... Many wise man claim knowing their past lives... Lessons learnt and sufferings....

Siv

[Gem Doccaus]

I have a question shooting towards the entire infrastructure of this discussion. It is not sarcastic, but a philosophical question I suppose. In your opinion, why does it matter to you what happens after death? Isn't what happens while living more important? What particularily sparks your interest in what happens after death?

[Looking to Jupiter]

Hi, (sorry this is a little bit off topic)

Im not sure if this is an idea of my own, or if someone told me.....its been floating in my head for so long, I couldnt tell you, but I thought I would add it to the discussion.

You know how people see a light at the end of a tunnel, in NDE, you dont think that is a memory of going down the birth canal do you?

Any people who were born by caesarian delivery , who have had NDE's, here?

if someone can answer this question, I may be able to formulate more on what i think of the afterlife)

[DiDi]

L2J hi
umm this topic is touchy, so i hope i dont offend or no one offends me lol
but its a huge topic and interesting to say the least.
.... ill just begin by saying everyone has there own thoughts and experiances so im not saying i have the answers.. but i wanted to share my thoughts on this with you.

the light at the end of the preverbial tunnel, not sure if it can be during birth as the head is comming out with eyes downwards mostly the light doesnt get to the child till its born... I have numerous of nde books that have been written by the nde,s themselves... during these nde,s things happen to them and they se things happening at the time of the nde, later when they have come to or awoken from this they can account for things that were said and have happened while the doctors thought they were dead... One even woke up in the morgue and knew the identity of the person who took him there and what the doctors were discussing as this person was prounounced dead.

the title of this "do you believe in the afterlife"
yes .. only because i have experianced death of my family that have come to me and the ones who have come to me in my dreams, they are different from normal dreams, you have to experiance them to know, like for me they are dreams where one of my relatives only my dad nan or cousin and reciently my puppa who died long ago came to me, they do not talk but i can hear there words throu thought, we move but they are visions, but the main thing i allways remember is the all so consuming love that sourounds our every being in pure white light and warmth..
. that love i think must be the love that god talks of for me anyway.. i have not been raised religious or go to church, i visioned these apperations when i was a child to of my puppa who came to me as i slept ,, my nan was in the same bed that night and the door opened a little i was so scared i hid but b4 i did i seen a outline of my puppa i could see through him, he was smiling at us, i didnt think my nan was awake.
the next day my mum came to get me as i had been staying at my nans house and i overheard my nan telling my mum she thought she had seen her husband that night... i could right a book on that house... lol
anyway for me as i was 8 at the time i remember everything and so i have a open mind because of my experiance in this.. as ive lost so many people in my life i find peace in it to some extent.

[DiDi]

GEM DOCCAUS for me its like.. think about it in the still of the night lie in your bed and aks yourself this... when i die will i never exist for all eternity that the being you are now will cease and that is that.

but for me that thought has never been first.. i just grew up feeling and seeing certain things that i could not work out why others couldnt, but it was normal for me so they must of come from somewhere? i know im sain and dont have any visual problems, so when i think of my family i smile and know they are out there somewhere, sometimes looking over us sometimes doing there own thing over there... it makes me happy that they are somewhere even if not here on earth.

[Sivitri]

Originally Posted by Gem Doccaus

I have a question shooting towards the entire infrastructure of this discussion. It is not sarcastic, but a philosophical question I suppose. In your opinion, why does it matter to you what happens after death? Isn't what happens while living more important? What particularily sparks your interest in what happens after death?

It is the unknown that sparks the curiosity of humans intelectual minds...

[tsquare]

I have a question shooting towards the entire infrastructure of this discussion. It is not sarcastic, but a philosophical question I suppose. In your opinion, why does it matter to you what happens after death? Isn't what happens while living more important? What particularily sparks your interest in what happens after death?

Well if we want to look from the POV of astrology, we could say that my personal desire...thats wrong, I really don't want to know as a goal.....
Looking for words.....my personal interest may have something to do with pluto being an extremely overactive planet in my natal chart, aspecting nearly all planets, part of a stellum....even aspecting the asc......so astrologically from that theoretical viewpoint I could say symbolically that that may have something to do with it........theoretically.

Fear could have much to do with peoples interest as well, since people are so extremely differnent in their reasons, and since the fact that there does not have to even be a reason that comes before anything that people do do, it is extremely difficult to pinpoint as a for all......

Listing possibles.....
Peoples fears
Peoples past deaths-under the theory of partial rememberance
peoples fears of this life and present life
people having difficulty with this life and the achevement of their self stated goals.
Peoples natural tendency to fear the unknown, agreeing with the condition and aparent rules of this world, death, ect. and their figuring the reason for having a certain particular condition........life.

Life is odd to say the least...and it is a totaly seperate activity from living, in my philosophical viewpoint we could call that an opinion...but I do have personal self evident truths that do back it up which I would expect no one to adopt or subscribe to.........
People subscribe to things because of their starvation of truth, their desire to know that which they have forgoten.....

People who are very awake have no need to fear death, for the reason of KNOWING it is not the end it is not a belief, something one casually heard when it is known..........going to the cross is easier if you know your not going to die....calling it sacrafice is a bit odd to fellows of that viewpoint......why fear death if one has absolute certainty that one will live "after"
An POV of infinity is differnet then a finite POV of death.....
One has to do with the agreement of this world and it's "natural" laws, the other has to do with living above and beyond them, even manipulating and controlling them.......making water into wine...in actuality.
Christ was a magician.

Astrology, from my current study which progresses every day, has to do with the astral body, it's fields, and also the akasa from which the elements decend and are created from.....the spirit is senior to the soul, and all souls are a creation which makes them modifyable...
Astrology effects the astral body it gies temperments and charectoristics...it is differnent from the physical body....
To make a model of man we could do this, as a model, not the thing....

Physical body
Physical universe
Astral Body
Astral matrix that ties the body to the Physical body
Mental universe which is the universe of the Spirit.....somewhat...

Well....
In the occult systems it looks like this...somewhat.....
Physical body which is dependent upon the elements as well as..
the astral body which is dependent upon the elements on a differnet wavelength...
THe mental universe from which thought is made and put into action in the lower respective bodies....
The astral body is the soul...
The akasa is the 4D, or designated as such, it is here yet not...people are really there, and still here.....yet not aware of it totally for themselves....it is self evident....
the spirit is senior to the akasa which is a plane or universe or whatever...it has inhbitants and such...like elemental spirits, dead people etc...ancestrial ties......the akasa feed the mental universe, which effects the astral universe, which effects the physical....
THere are also the universes of others and their caues and effects.....
universes are overlays...they rest upon one another creating effects in one another....

Astrology gives the body certain charectoristics and chanels...ways of being, ways of using energy in and with the physical but is really active of the astral plane......
people exist at all of these...or at least the sprit does which is immortal...
What happens in all universes effects all universes...senior universes are morea t cause...but what hapens in a lower universe effects upper universes as well...
EX: the Astral body is severed from the physical body...the body dies....whic therefore effect the spirit, because it cuts the interaction and flows form spirit down to the physical level....which can really give the spirit a bad experience if it identifies with the body and identity and such....unfinished business starts arround here somewhat....
There are postulates, decissions, that people make durring times of strife, death, strugle, that effect their later decisions by default...conciderations create reality...or at least he aparency of......even agreement based upon opinion is an aparency and is not truth...
Astrology is even a lie based upon vIA's instead of dirrect observation....
It is a map, not the territory........proof is difficult in this...some things in astrology are more predictable so therefore easily proven, some others are not, and all is changable....even a persons fate, destiny and such, by the alteration on the energy and cause point of the astral body....which must be done from a senior universe....
Yet it takes waking up at a higher level to be senior to fates, and times....
THe Experiental data, both known and unknown, by the being called SELF..is based upon the flows of time and living and being within time in a physical universe............
Past, present, and future....

all of that depends upon beingness, and also the beingness one has abandoned by either decision or too much impact...losses and such in past lives...which can force a being into another identity, or even on another leg of a ditchotomy of sorts....
ditchotomy like Good and evil, right and wrong...all with respective goals as well...
THer are a finite of thing a person incarnate in a physical universe can do as a being, as a self, because of the laws of it's creation...many cover these under forms of archetypes........................
That is a broad subject and is not just one of astrology, for astrology has it's archetypes as well...it seems much effects man/woman in their incarnated states through the astral plane, and mental plane, from the akasa..............
THere are states of being where there is NO TIME, NO mass, NO wavelength< no Conciousness, yet awareness of all....as all, above all, before all, which is one already....individuation and spliting creates ditchotomies and polarities which create conflict universes and such....
even in astrology it is quick and easy to see that there are instantly waring intentions in it's creation....it is not a balanced creation...some sighs conflict, oppose, some comincate, some are friends.....all are mutually dependent for their very existance upon the others for their existance....
there is much to this.....

where am I....
Rambling...
Why do people worry about death, or even want to know or even care?
I suppose the most diffintive reason is that they feel threatened, it may be the body that is scared, it may be their self, I doubt it is their higher self........but eiter way something in them feels threatened, so worry.....

Then there is the other variety of individual who is planing their next life knowingly, picking their next body conciously, choosing......instead of confusion at the point of death and being picked up and shoved into another body unconcions of how they ended up there..........

The other variety, the awake variety....knows the past as well as the resent and the future...in sences of the absoltes of the creation of this universe...some are more screwy then others...they all have dfferent reasons....some are part of odd strange groups....therfore to some degree owned.......but in any case, they choose their next existence...it is taking responsability for their next life....which for many is undoable in their current states.....being that they have the idea....from where, they may know they may not.....that they are basically in a body, conected up to it very tightly...with no awareness of what really hapens, has happend or will hapened.....it takes awareness to make a move when it comes to these things.....
onewould have to be aware of far more then they know as a currnet mortal.....this is the subject of imortality.....
Most of the highly religions variety, the church type variety, are ignorant as can be, the texts have been altered, Christianity respectively wants an individaul to just worship the individual Christ to the degree of placing him back there...I don't know if they really want the fellow arround...it is amusing to think that he could be walking arround today in a bussiness suit and nobody would know the better....................which is impossible to many of the true believers...which is odd.........
but anyway there are may beyond go doing specific things that go beyond the laws of this univers that many agree to and identify as truth by their convideration which to some degree limits their ability depending upon thir knowledge, their games, their specific beingness, their chronic obsessions, which are very difficult to unravel............being they depend upon "so long ago" and the decissios made...and the identites lost and stuck...the composites of a being.............

There is the next universe out...which a person can live in and still be here at the same time...there are many outside of that...as a person gets therse seperated out...notices the cause and effects upon each which effect one another a person becomes more powerfull.....
Many thing in this universe do not have to be defended or faught......just erase the act before it hapens and it wont....
this is not only my delusion, or idea....or knowingness...

Astrology opperates on the basic assumpsions of Chance, Fate, Destiny, and such...in that subawareness agreemnts, and subawareness structures, effect life and livingness............that it is all to a large degree predetermined....start to finish...all the way to go and back arround again.....
which is somwaht true...
But at alimited awareness one lives under fate..as fate....with that respective ability...to live out that which is or has been created, start to finish that one is busy being and "living" within as life.

So.....
To change destinies and futures, one would have to errase off the conciderations, and futures from the akasa records....which is the place many a magicain speaks of...senior to the elements, senior to time...senior to here and now........yet in an odd way.....here and now creating here and now...rulling men and animal alike as dust.............
Life is what it is, living is a whole differnet matter.........
Life likes to defend life at times instead of live it, let alone create it.....
The splinters of god lie in all....but are not god at his ultimate.



Hmm......
THe other variety is the suidice bomber type who does not fear death because of their ulitimate brainwashing and likes to take alot of people with them...,,for allah, or god, or hitler, or bush, or mom and dad, or whatever..in their splened afterlife they have recieved through indoctrination, pain, and invalidation of their very beingness.....they do not know who they are any longer...have been shoved out of valence....are insane....been given a new identity.....kill in the name of....
which is sad.


All religions are true....
yet all religions have madmen at their gates running the doors and the people that walk through....................
No wise man ever wanted a church in his name.....
The list could go on in examples....
Does anyone ever remember christ writing a book?
Does anyone ever remember Buddah writing a book?
Or is it all Christ said this?
Buddah said this?
Good old Christ even flipped over tables in church in anger at what was happening in said church.....that's not something an apathetic I love all type does...that is something an angry person does......try that in church next time and see what happens.....

This all may seem off topic, and even non astrological....
but to cut out, the topic of reincarnation, religion, and all that jazz, then one nearly completly degrades and limits the subject down to a fatalistic, Non applciation of the subjects intital intent at self actualisation.
There is an aspect of astrology that is usefull in fates.......and that is the judegement through VIA's of where things will go.....it is under akasha.....it is under creation.....
It is observation of a thing while sitting inside of it using viewpoints and opinions based upon perception...it is called the physical universe.....
Yet all is alterable by those who can....
Blasphermy?

Most christianity is above the heads of most....people just are not up to reading it.......
EX:
There will be no time, through love is sainthood and space known, from those that have not will be taken and given to those that have.

These are high ordered verbs...
Through Love, not the mechanical variety, but it's creation constant...non solidified....above time love......
If you mechaniclly love, it will be there whether you create it or not, it will be percistant love, mechanical, yet above time there is another variety...space is known, and love is exponential.....it multiplys itself...what is of this world is linear...

I guess I am saying....who said death is death, who said life is life? who says there is even and end but to things, that one says one is, for the sake fo playing a game with oneself? Eho says this isn't a dream that at times turns nightmare......

This has all and everything to do with beliefs, and little to do with what one , or many know, those who did wrote it down and spoke about it, then it got turned into religions......beliefs, reaffermations, uggg....little to do wih ones personal know or selfactualization...truth is the rising above of opinions or agreements.....truth is silent...
What you know is more usefull then what you believe or others believe,
people want to know because of the threats to their existance in the present, past or forceseeable future in their minds or objective....to their being, which has goals and ideas concerning and containing survival....
higher self is too amused(nothing matters) to care.
aND SELF IS, if successfull, and doing alirght, then could care less about death or whatever.....as long as things are going fine....


oops, that a bit much?

It is the unknown that sparks the curiosity of humans intelectual minds...

Yes, that as well....the how if it is....
known
forgotten
unknown
curious wonder
desire to know as a goal from a specific condition of being.
there is more to it then that I am sure....
Mabie the concideration of cant know, cant be known, someone saying it cant be known...agreement to not have known.....
it is all game.
Enforced agreed unknown....
forgeting
notknowing
curiousity
desire to know specific thing
enforcing
inhibiting
None
Rejecting

minds have little to do with know or awareing, or truth. Minds seem to be an after the fact creation, alteration percistance, a percistence of data...a safety device to protect from the unknown.

[starlink]

Hello GEM, you wrote:

why does it matter to you what happens after death? Isn't what happens while living more important? What particularily sparks your interest in what happens after death?

I think that some people like their lives and want it to be extended maybe into another life. They just like living.So, they want to know if this could be possible or not. Others dont like their lives but are hoping maybe for a better life after death, so they are also hoping for (another and better) sort of life after death.

Cheers, Starlink

[Neptune Rising]

have a question shooting towards the entire infrastructure of this discussion. It is not sarcastic, but a philosophical question I suppose. In your opinion, why does it matter to you what happens after death? Isn't what happens while living more important? What particularily sparks your interest in what happens after death?

I partly agree with this, its good to concentrate on the current life and live it to the full for every second we can breathe. I am interested in the transition bit between the current life and the next version, whatever that may be. I think its important to be aware of death, and to be aware of the possibility of a transition to another form, because that is one of the most important parts of life (there are many other equazlly important and transfomational parts of life too). If there is another form to transform into after death, then maybe, how we feel at the point of death will determine how we travel to the next bit. Example, at the point of the last breath, when we get to see and review our whole life, if we suddenly have a massive regret, by then its too late, arrgh, panick, and then we go into the next form with an energy/vibration of panick, because energy doesn't just stop still in its tracks, it travels. So I think its good to be aware of death and what may be after, to help us appreciate how to live life more fully, with no regrets.

I may have gone off track there, sorry about that!
NR

[Wilmingtonian]

Originally Posted by starlink

I think that some people like their lives and want it to be extended maybe into another life. They just like living.So, they want to know if this could be possible or not. Others dont like their lives but are hoping maybe for a better life after death, so they are also hoping for (another and better) sort of life after death.

Cheers, Starlink

Yes and amen! I think a belief that "life" goes on, even after death, gives us hope. I can't stand to even contemplate the thought that I will never see my children again, whether that be in heaven or in the next life.

I was raised in the Judeo-Christain sort of faith and from what I learned in Sunday School I always thought heaven sounded so boring and stagnant compared to life on earth. I always wished I'd never die, even then.

I've been reading a great book lately called "The God Gene" by Dean Hamer. The premise is that the faith you have is given by nurture, but the degree of your faith is given by nature and actually hardwired into your genes. People who have a high degree of self-transcendence (astrologists included ) may have genes dictating that we be this way. Kind of disturbing, isn't it?