Schizophrenic? Grand Cross Discussion.

[dgreenberg8]

Greetings.... my uncle has quite an interesting chart with a Grand Cross and several aspects to the Moon.

Anyone want to hazard a guess about his degree of mental health and potential for "normal" life? "1" being lifelong mental patient, "10" being essentially "normally integrated" in to society.

I'll reply with his actuals and life history once we get a few replies. I've been doing charts for 24 years and have rarely seen one like this, I'm a bit baffled.

H.B. 3/23/1958 Washington D.C. 6:42 AM

douglas

[Wilmingtonian]

I'm new to astrology, so I'm afraid I don't have anything to add to the discussion. But I would be very interested to know what you find. My MIL has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.

[Caprising]

Compared to the 15 or so charts that I have seen of people diagnosed with schitzophrenia, I would have to say no, but the natal venus conjunct chiron in aquarius would probably lead to unusual relating issues , especially now, as assuming the birth time is correct, he has recently had (and probably still has) chiron on the progressed m/c, add in a few real time transits, not to mention the mars opp. uranus (has he been violent?) , and the progressed position of saturn in sag on the desc, and I'm sure he seems very "weird".

[dourage]

what do you guys consider to be a significant aspect pattern or whatever for schizophrenic folks? i have a friend who's schizophrenic but he only has a grand trine. are you sure that astrology gives us the answer regarding this topic?

[aquarius7000]

Originally Posted by dgreenberg8

Greetings.... my uncle has quite an interesting chart with a Grand Cross and several aspects to the Moon.

Anyone want to hazard a guess about his degree of mental health and potential for "normal" life? "1" being lifelong mental patient, "10" being essentially "normally integrated" in to society.

I'll reply with his actuals and life history once we get a few replies. I've been doing charts for 24 years and have rarely seen one like this, I'm a bit baffled.

H.B. 3/23/1958 Washington D.C. 6:42 AM

douglas

Guess your uncle has a tough time maintaining even a normal degree of mental and soul harmony. He must experience a high degree of inner frustration and fears and anger that remain pent-tp and come out in sudden bursts. One would have to consider the number of retrograde planets he has. Aquarius 7000

[Caprising]

To gain an idea of the basic indicators of what we call "schitzophrenia" in the birth chart, do the following. Get hold of 10 or 15 charts of people who have been diagnosed with schitzophrenia, realise that 2 to 4 of those charts will have "errors" like wrong birth time, and browse through the charts looking for common or repeated patterns. Then, progress the chart to the age where the person was diagnosed, and compare these patterns as well. You would also add transits to the natal chart, transits to the progressed chart, and another "bi wheel" (that means 2 charts together for the newbies) with the natal and progressed, and a "tri wheel" (3 charts) showing natal, progressed and transits. It seems to me that someone with schitzophrenia is more like a sane person mentally retreating from an insane world!! Oh, and a big tip, take note of the degrees of the zodiac which keep popping up, and the emotional sensitivities of the native.Happy hunting!

[PSI Society]

I think Schizophrenia will pose some tricky problems. Firstly, it is an umbrella terms for a range of symptoms. Someone diagnosed with 'schizophrenia' may exhibit dramatically different symtoms than another 'schizophrenic' person. This is unlike, say, obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). Someone with OCD in the UK will have almost identical symptoms to someone with OCD in Japan. Secondly, opinions differ as to what schizophenia actually is. Is it an physical problem to do with the brain (that has mental problems as a consequence) or is it more like Caprising's idea of a sane person retreating from an insane world?

As a psychotherapist I treat people with depression, anxiety, phobias, stress, OCD, addiction and so on. I use Mayan Astrology sometimes as part of a therapeutic technique. I have definitely noticed an high proportion of people who have problems with authority/parental dominance have Imix as their day sign (a sign known for this kind of personality).

I would not be at all surprised if similar patterns can be found for schizophrenics. However, because schizophrenics and their symptoms (and so personalities) vary the pattern would be hard to find.

[dourage]

PSI, as I'm not that familiar with Mayan Astrology, what is Imix, and is there a site somewhere with more info on Mayan Astrology?

[Looking to Jupiter]

Yeh i'll second that request that dourage has just put up for more info on mayan astrology. I am particularly interested in knowing how you are using the calendar with therapy, PSI. Maybe you'd be interested in starting a thread?

[PSI Society]

There are 20 day signs in Mayan astrology. The day sign is like the Sun and Ascendant in Western astrology describing a person's characterics and primary motivations. Imix (eemish) is one of these 20 signs.

I'll make a thread about Mayan astrology and psychotherapy tomorrow

I have a client tomorrow morning and will ask her if she minds me posting a case study (names and identifying details changed of course).

[rubyelixir]

sounds fascinating psi , i will look forward to your post

[PSI Society]

Thanks for the encouragement. It's past midnight here and I've only just got in - My day started at 5am this morning and I'm absolutely whacked!

My client OKed the case study and I'll post it tomorrow.

[aspicco]

Originally Posted by dourage

what do you guys consider to be a significant aspect pattern or whatever for schizophrenic folks? i have a friend who's schizophrenic but he only has a grand trine. are you sure that astrology gives us the answer regarding this topic?

Here is where you have to examine your attitude toward mental illness and what that means to you. Perhaps you need to examine how your friend copes with and experiences his mental state. Perhaps a Grand Trine makes the most sense. We have, as a society, over the past 100 years or so, created a definition of mental "health" that has become narrower and narrower.

[Miss Saturn]

There have been a few charts I have seen of people who have mental illnesses with grand trines. The outer planets are also prominent in the chart, angular and to the luminaries etc... but you still wouldn't be able to tell from a chart if a person was schizophrenic.

[dourage]

aspicco you are right,

i guess it's also a part of his character. i don't have much experience with schizophrenic people, but he is a very self-destructive person and doesn't seem to have a goal in life. it's like all of this easy energy (though this grand trine involves saturn) doesn't go anywhere, like it's "too easy".

he lives in his own world though, i can safely say he's had some issues and though i know we have a narrow view of what's normal nowadays, i can say this with honest truth, he was out of it for a long time, also due to drug use.

[StarNur]

HI, I know of two ppl with some form of schizophrenia. One a Aries friend from university whom I had to cut ties with because she used to call me every half an hour every single day. I remember the first time I started to realize she wasn't well mentally was when she asking me if I saw aliens in the makeup section of the pharmacy...she was about 21 at the time. She also screamed in the face of one of our biochem professors when he was talking to her face to face because she thought she saw snakes coming out of his eyes. If I recall correctly she said that her father suffered the same.

My mother also suffers the same in cycles...When shes becomes delusional instead she believes shes traveled to far off places shes never visited before in her life, that dead ppl come to our house to eat and so makes them a separate plate on the table, that my father is a criminal . When i was younger I remember her walking into random people's yards, backyards and even homes if they weren't locked...lots of personal stories that im not going to get into.

Neither one of them used or abused drugs during or prior to the onset of this mental disorder.

My friend has Moon conjunct Saturn in Virgo square Neptune in Sagitarrius.

My mom's birthdate/time im not 100% certain about...her dob could be different cuz she was born in another country...but according to this dob she has Moon opposite Saturn, and her Moon is also involved in a T-square with the Moon in Aries opposite Neptune in Libra and square Uranus in Cancer. Her Sun is also opposite Saturn. Shes also been labelled as having Manic Depression in the past.

Im concerned about my own mental health. I thank God Im in a sane state of mind...but who knows what can happen. My mother didnt show signs till she after she had my sister at the age of 29...And Im 29 already and I will be going thru a Saturn Return very shortly. I have my Moon in Pisces involved in a t-square, with the Moon opposite Saturn and square Neptune. My moon is also trine Uranus in the 6th house. Plus I have a heavy Aquarius/Gemini influence in my chart. My Aqua Sun/Mars/Mercury oppose Jupiter in Leo which could point to bipolar...between extreme highs and lows. I think over time I've learned to control and continue to manage this.

Just some possible insights from my experience...

[sara31tx]

Here is the birth data of Peter Green who went on a 3 day LSD trip and never came back. He was diagnoised with Schizophrenia. Oct 29, 1946 9:59pm in Bethnal Green, London(United Kingdom)