Re: Will I give birth to a baby by Feb 2009? If so, when?

[wantababy]

Ok...I learnt how to create a horary chart

Per the attached chart, I have Jupiter and Pluto in the 5th house.

Now, how does the strength of these planets and their placement in this house affect me having a baby?

[archergirl]

Hi there,

I would direct you to the magnificent Skyscript site, here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary.html

It will help you a great deal if you try the tutorial out; there are also some horaries on there somewhere having to do with pregnancy and childbirth. We really do encourage people to try to work on their own charts as you have an investment in your own question.

Don't worry, we will guide you along! In your question you need especially to look here:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/pregnancy.html

Good luck!
AG

[wantababy]

Hey archergirl,

I did browse thro' the website.

And I only got this far

Mars (Barren planet) in Cancer-fertile sign
Uranus (Barren Planet) in Pisces - fertile sign
Jupiter (Fertile planet) in Capricorn - semi-fruitful sign
Pluto (?) in Capricorn - semi-fruit sign

Per my horary chart, ascendant is leo which is a barren sign
Leo - ruler of 5th house in 12th house.
Neither Aries nor moon in 5th house.
Mars in 11th house. (How do I determine how strong Jupiter is?)
I have a barren sign on my ascendant
Am really stuck after this.
Please....I do want to learn how to interpret my chart.
Can you plesae guide me step by step?

You dont have to tell me what it means....maybe you can give clues...and I can do some analysis and get back to you and then you can tell me if I got it right or not.

Atleast tell me how to start.

I so badly want to atleast do one chart.

[starlink]

Hello Wanta (for shorts). Let me help you a bit here.
Before you can start interpreting a chart, there are certain things you have to take in consideration. They are called : considerations before judgement.

Now, in Skyscript you can find what these considerations are.
The most important are to look if your Ascendant falls in the first 3 degrees of the sign, or in the last 3 degrees. this shows you that maybe it is still too early (1st 3) or too late (last 3) for this question. Also it could mean that you might already know what the answer is , deep down (with the last 3°).

OK, your Asc. fall at 24°, so it is not yet in the last 3 degrees.

Next thing to look for is if the Moon is VOC (Void of Course) which means that the Moon will not make any more ingoing aspects with other planets before she leaves her sign. This means that "nothing will come of the matter" or a plain NO. In charts where someone is afraid of what will happen, a VOC moon means: dont worry, nothing will happen.

And so there are more of these considerations to look for.
If everything looks more or less OK, then go on interpreting the chart.
If there are considerations, then you can still interprete a chart, just be more careful because you could make a mistake somewhere.

Your Moon is not VOC. So that is also OK.

Next step is to exactly know which houses to choose from. Wrong house, wrong answer.
The Querent (you) is always signified by house 1 and in all relationship questions the 7th for the other person.
In money questions, look at the 2nd house
Baby, pregnancy and sex questions, 5th house
and so on.
Skyscript has a whole tutorial sektion done by Deb Houlding. Take the lessons and you will be able to start interpreting your chart. If you are really interested in learning this, you will do that. If your curiosity is stronger, you are not serious enough about learning (and that is what this forum is all about) and that would be a pitty. Please try to find these lessons. You will learn tons! Then come back and try again. We will help you, like AG wrote.
Good luck, Starlink

[archergirl]

Hi Wantababy,

I will add a few 'hints' to Starlink's...

1. Jupiter, ruler of the 5th house of children, is in its own house, but Jupiter is in the sign of its fall. A planet in its own house simply emphasizes the validity of the question. It's like saying, "This is what you are asking about."

2. Saturn, the greater malefic, is in the 1st house. Since this question has nothing to do with the houses that Saturn rules in this chart, we must take this as a warning...not of anything 'bad', per se, but Saturn almost always represents hindrances, obstacles, and frustrations.

3. Finding every one of the relevant house cusps and planets in a barren or semi-barren sign is a fairly strong indicator that you will get a negative answer.

4. It is interesting that your ruler, the Sun, is placed so strongly (in exaltation) in the 9th house. This suggests to me that in the time-frame you have chosen, you are likely to either be engaged in travel or 'higher learning'; maybe going back to university or something like that. To this Sagittarius, either sound good!

Further on this (a very gentle lecture ): With questions on childbearing and fertility, I have found time and time again that when the querent gives a specific 'deadline' for things to occur, they get at best a confused answer, or at worst a negative answer. Deb Houlding (from Skyscript) once told me that horary deals only with the immediate present; when we try to project something happening, far into the future, the answer is not likely to be satisfactory, because too much can happen in the meantime.

I know people have told you this already, but there really is something about fertility that is strongly linked to 'just letting it be'. We in the West don't have such a good handle on Being. We are much more oriented toward Doing, and Doing does nothing but leave us wrapped up in mental knots when things don't 'happen as planned or hoped'. There is infinite order in the Universe, but understanding and accepting this requires a certain amount of surrender that we are unused to.

There is also the perception (not just in the West) that we 'ARE' what we have; in other words, to the things we call 'ours' or 'mine' (my ruby ring, my car, my house, my child) we give our identity, so when we don't have these things, or we lose them somehow, and we see that other people have them, we feel somehow 'less' than the others, or that we have 'lost' a part of ourselves. This is, of course, a false perception, as you are perfect and complete and whole just by being you. Eckhart Tolle writes very eloquently about this, and I would recommend him to anyone who asks (and many who don't ).

Best,
AG

[starlink]

Eckhart Tolle writes very eloquently about this, and I would recommend him to anyone who asks (and many who don't ).

Yes indeed AG!! He really is good.
S.

[wantababy]

Starlink and Archergirl,

So many thanks for responding to me.

Trust me when I say that I'm truly trying to learn astrology.

Ok...so for now, let's just forget my question. I'll try to answer it myself when I learn to interpret my chart

In the meanwhile, if I do get pregnant, that's good for me. I have a friend coming over to my place in May, he knows astrology and I'm so looking forward to discuss this with him.

I finally got some time over the weekend and I went through the lessons on astrologyweekly.com.

I got stuck here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn...n-pictures.php

QUOTE:
======
To read the chart in this example use the "astro-sentence" just mentioned: the sign modifies the planet and is focused on the house. So in this example the person this chart refers to has a home (sign) modifying a transformation (planet) focused on the physical (house).
======
UNQUOTE

QUOTE:
======
One more example of the same idea. To read the chart in this example again use the "astro-sentence:" the sign modifies the planet and is focused on the house. So in this example the person this chart refers to is does thinking (sign) which modifies their being (planet) focused on expansion (house).
======
UNQUOTE

In the first case, I couldnt understand as to how "home", "transformation" and "physical" were related

Similarly in the second case, I couldnt understand as to how "thinking", "being" and "expansion" were being related.

I also didnt get the sixth lesson here;
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/interaction.php

I'm sorry if I'm asking very basic questions, but I understand that unless your foundation is strong, it doesnt help.

To archergirl:
"........you are likely to either be engaged in travel or 'higher learning'; maybe going back to university or something like that."

hmm...."higher learning"....I dont know if I could term it that way. But for the past one week, I know I've gone through some transformation. I've come to realize that everything happens for a reason. I read on the astrology websites that planets, when they transit, teach you something. You will not believe it....the other day I saw a program on TV where the preacher was saying the exact same thing. Except that he used the word God. He said that "Things happen FOR us and not TO us". Meaning, they happen for a reason....they happen so that we get strong and we learn something out of it. And that's God's way of helping us to tide over those difficult situations. Wow! amazing!
It hit a chord somewhere deep inside....and am glad for whatever I have right now.

Btw, if this is not the forum for asking questions related to astrology, could you direct me to some other forum where, if I do have questions while going through my tutorials, I can talk to someone?

[starlink]

Hello wannababy! You are showing real interest and I am very happy about that. Yes of course this Forum is for all sorts of questions related to astrology. The medical astrologers will be answering medical questions more than I would do of course, as they have their speciality in that field. AG (especially)and myself and a couple of others are mainly busy with horary although I occasionally, when something urgent or really different comes up, I also do the natal astrology. So ask as much as you like. I am more inclined to answer someone who does show dedication than someone who just once or twice comes by for help without showing personal interest in getting better at understanding astrology.
I will visit this link of yours to get a better understanding of what the quotes tell you. I am not native English so have to chew on certain things as well
Cheers, Starlink

[starlink]

OK Wannababy, I have seen what you have been looking at.

If I understand it well, you are learning now basic natal astrology (this Astrology Weekly lesson refers to), but horary astrology deals with quite a different type of astrology. Indeed, you need to know your basics, so what you are doing there is very good (if you really are a total beginner in interpreting a chart).

You asked us a horary question. This requires that you do have to know the basic natal astrology rules. But Horary has very different interpretation rules besides the basics we know from natal astrology.

For instance, in natal astrology, you do what lesson 5 & 6 tells you. You learn about signs, houses and planets and the interaction between two planets.(or more when you have configurations like Grand Trines, Yods, and others). In natal you go into progressions . In horary that is hardly done.

Now you did not quite understand
how "home", "transformation" and "physical" were related

In that chart you see that it is divided into 12 different pieces, like a cake. OK, this can be calculted according to several systems, for instance: equal houses, regiomontanus, Placidus, Koch e.o.
According to these different systems, the houses are also different in size, except for the equal house system.

Each house describes a life compartment. First house= Being because it deals with YOU, the body, how you express yourself to the outside world, how you look etc.

2nd house, your possessions, your income , your selfworth (psychological meaning). The word Physical is indeed a bit confusing here and refers to the sign Taurus most likely (the 2nd sign in the Zodiac). It is an earth sign, it is very physical, likes to touch and feel.

I personally learned Psychological Astrology and can much easier interprete it that way. Like your selfworth (worldly, your possessions) will undergo a transformation (because Pluto is the planet of transformation, related to Scorpio and the 8th house of life and death) due to emotional (sign Cancer which is also connected strongly to our emotions) upheavel (Pluto again) in the family (sign Cancer).

You can also say that your home (Cancer)could undergo a drastic transformation (Pluto) which could improve your selfconfidence (the physical).

I find the description they give totally confusing to be honest. I mean : "the home modifying a transformation", sorry,what the heck does that mean? No wonder you dont understand.

Just keep it simple.

Each sign is related to something :home (Cancer), health (Virgo), relationships (Libra).

Each planet is connected with the sign is belongs to (like Pluto to Scorpio, Venus to Taurus)

and each house is again related to how the signs are following each other in the Zodiac, starting with Aries (1st house), Taurus(2nd), Gemini (3rd).

Have a good look at the second chart. If you look at the 8th house, you see Pluto in it, Scorpio as sign and 8 for the 8th house. One of the keywords is transformation (there are many more keywords for each sign and house of course). So if you see Pluto in one of the other houses, you know that some sort of transformation is due to happen in that life compartment(house).
In the 6th it can be transformation at work, in the 11th, it can be with friendships and so on. (but it can also mean an upheaval or crisis or death, all Plutonic things.

You have to cook a bit. Mix all the ingredients = information.

Moon/Cancer/4th house= Home, nurturing, emotions, Pluto/Scorpio/8th= transformation,

Venus/Taurus & Libra/2nd and 7th houses= possessions, money, income, love, relationships, other people.

So with thinking, being and expansion you do the same.
Thinking is related to Mercury, 3rd sign of the Zodiac (Gemini) and 3rd house.
Being we know already: Mars, 1st sign of the Zodiac (Aries), and 1st house
Expansion: Jupiter, 9th sign of the Zodiac (Saggitarius) and the 9th house

So there can be many different combinations made with these three.
You can put Mars (as planet of being) in the thinking sign Gemini, in the 9th house for instance. Or you can put Jupiter (expansion) in the 3rd house (Gemini house) in Aries. All three are mixed and the mix is seen through the same sign or planet in the different houses.

Now,in order to see HOW they mix, you look at the aspects between the planets. Each aspect shows a different sort of energy, trines flow easily, sextiles need a bit of input from yourself but then also work fine, but squares and oppositions are more difficult .

It will all come in time, but it needs a very long time before you get this all in your system. (it took me at least 1 year to start understanding, then 25 years to experiment with what I knew and improving my readings. and I am still learning more every day. I did not even think of doing horary before.

The difference now between natal and horary is big. In horary you only look at the rulers of the person who askes the question and the ruler of the house that is the Quisited. and the Moon as co-ruler of the quisitor.(except when the quisited's house is ruled by Cancer and the Moon rules him.
Nothing else.(in the beginning) All the other planets dont play a role.

Aspects in natal astrology are totally different from the one in horary. In horary you only look at ingoing aspects, nothing else. And the fastest planet always has to move towards the slowest. there are hundreds of little rules and exceptions. It is a very complicated art.

So I think, in order for you to understand horary , you should really first have a very solid knowledge of natal astrology, otherwise you are going to confuse the two systems totally.

When AG told you to look at the tutoring in the Skyscript, that was all about horary tutoring. I see now that you are busy with the Astrology weekly tutoring concerning with natal astrology which is very different from horary.
Personally I would first get a good grip on natally before attempting horary, but that is up to you. Just dont get the two systems mixed up and in order to see the difference between the two, do go and have a look at the horary tutoring on Skyscript,so you get an idea what it is all about.

Good luck! I think the studying AG saw in your horary question could maybe have to do with learning and studying astrology!

Cheers, Starlink

[wantababy]

My! My! That was a very detailed reply.

But you have to give me some time to let this sink into my head.
I just started reading about astrology last Thursday .

And you are right....right now, I cannot tell the difference between horary/natal astrology....lol!

So let me go through your response and I will get back to you (Unfortunately, I've been busy at work and am not finding enough time during weekdays....will have to wait for weekend to spend sometime because I think I need to be able to concentrate while I read abt astrology).

Thanks a ton for the response......will get back to ya!

[archergirl]

Personally I would first get a good grip on natally before attempting horary, but that is up to you. Just dont get the two systems mixed up and in order to see the difference between the two, do go and have a look at the horary tutoring on Skyscript,so you get an idea what it is all about.

This is the way I would have suggested it too, at one point, but I have it on good authority from the 'experts' that learning horary is easier, and should be done first. I would probably agree with this nowadays; horary is much more elegant and simple than the murky realms of modern psychological natal astrology.

AG

[starlink]

Yes AG, it is easier and faster to learn than natal astrology, I agree. I always looked at natal astrology as the general MD, you know, knowing more broadly about things and then branches like Horary, Mundane, Event astrology as specializations (the surgeons and specialists on just one part of the body).
Like horary deals only with questions at this very moment, and natal deals with the whole life development, psychologically and otherwise.
Maybe if I had come to horary astrology first, I would also have gotten stuck on this and nothing more. After all, the Skyscript tutoring also deals with the houses, planets etc., but goes deeper when it comes to the dignities and considerations etc.
Personally I could not do without the whole range as of course, repeatedly people want chart interpretations and solar returns etc. The horary at that point (forcasting) then comes in extremely handy as I have two different things I can look at.
Cheers, Starlink

[archergirl]

Yeah, I came to horary *after* years of natal astrology, but in some ways horary is more logical, so I have more of an affinity with it; I have lots of Saturnian influences in my chart, so the 'structure' of horary suits me!

AG

[wantababy]

Hey AG and Starlink,

Could you suggest me a good book to learn astrology?

I will be out this weekend and will not have my computer with me, but while travelling and while at the other place, I might have some time to read.

So I could go to the library and get a book.

Any suggestions?

[archergirl]

Hi Wantababy,

For basic natal astrology, see if you can find a copy of Debbie Kempton-Smith's "Secrets from a Stargazer's Notebook". It's written with a strong dose of humor and does a pretty good job of breaking down natal astrology into easily-understandable bits. This was the first 'real' astrology book I started with, many years ago!

For horary astrology, "Christian Astrology, Books 1 and 2" are the horarist's bible, and you can learn everything you need to know about horary from this one book, at least to start. You would have to order this off of Amazon or Abebooks; it's fairly obscure and you won't find it in many libraries!

I also like John Frawley: "The Horary Textbook" is actually probably a better bet for you, since you are an absolute beginner in astrology. "The Horary Textbook" is very easy to read, and Frawley has organized the book in a very logical fashion, with example charts, etc. He's also very funny. Humor is a requisite of any 'serious' book I read; otherwise, I don't absorb the information...which is why I refer to Frawley more than Lilly, although Lilly of course wrote the 'master book' for horary.

So:

1. Secrets from a Stargazer's Notebook: Debbie Kempton-Smith
2. Christian Astrology, Books 1 & 2: William Lilly
3. The Horary Textbook: John Frawley

There are several other excellent books, of course, but 1. and 3. are particularly well-suited for those just starting out.

Cheers,
AG

[starlink]

Yes, those are good books. I started actually with "the only way to learn....Astrology from Marion March & Joan Mc.Evers. They wrote several books, all starting with "The only way......"

William Lilly's book, is of course very very good, but if you only can get it in old English (did they actually translate it into modern English AG? do you know?) than it could be hard to understand.
Then John Frawley would be the better one to start with, or the one I also like a lot, same style more or less as John which is:
"Horary Astrology plain & simple, written by Anthony Louis which also includes a section about understanding event charts. Very easy, systematic and pleasant reading. This book is also very good for the absolute beginner.

Have a ball!!! Starlink

[archergirl]

Hi Star, all,

(did they actually translate it into modern English AG? do you know?)

Yes, the Roell edition that I own has been translated into modern English; they took out the idiosyncratic spelling and a lot of the 'doth' and 'thy' sort of words, although they left the old syntax, which is nice (and not hard to understand). They also translated the old square charts into modern wheel charts, with adjustments for time, calendars, etc. It's a good read.

AG

[starlink]

Gosh, I wished I had know that before buying mine! I have to read the text aloud in order to understand what is being written. I dont have book 3 about natal astrology , so maybe I can get that one in normal English. Thanks for mentioning this. In the book I have, they did put the round charts (thank God) in the back of the book, so I photocopied them and keep them next to the interpretations.
Going to bed now, sleep well! Star.

[wantababy]

One question.

how long did it take for each of you to learn abt astrology, either natal or horary?

I've been doing some reading, but honestly, am still lost. It's been 2 wks and I do not see any improvement in me..

I already feel like a loser(due my inability to have a baby so far) and hence any of my failed attempts in any other activity, is making things even worse!

I think I'm going crazy. Am once again going into depression. All I have on my mind is having a baby. I see pregnant women all around me and it is driving me nuts! I dont wanna be jealous of them, but cannot help that feeling!!

[starlink]

Wantababy, you said:

I already feel like a loser(due my inability to have a baby so far)

How on earth can you feel like a looser?? Is it a must to be able to have a baby?? There are millions of women who are infertile. Are those women all loosers? Please Wanta, please dont ever think that you are a looser. You are not. Getting pregnant is not something you have to learn and do an exam in. So you can never be good or not good in being able to get pregnant. And if you focus on one thing at a time, you can learn a an activity, hobby, whatever. It does not matter if you are extremely good at it. What does count is that it makes you happy doing it.

I dont think this is the way to go about all this. I dont know how long you are married, how old you are and if your interest in astrology is very strong or that you just hope to find some quick answers to the problems in your life.
As long as you are not yet 35 years old, I would not get so upset about the fact that you are not yet pregnant, honestly. If it is a bit of a consolation to you, I have a 37 year old daughter, very beautiful (looks very much like Cameron Diaz according to everyone who meets her, so it has nothing to do with not being attractive), is also succesful in her career and guess what, she is not even married, does not even have a boyfriend at the moment (3 long relationships failed) and she had this period between 30 and 33 where she really really was like you. She just wanted soooo much to have a baby, she was desperate.

We talked a lot about it of course and she finally understood that you cannot force things and just spoiling your life by ONLY focussing on this; it would only make her more unhappy. It is a known fact that letting go will bring things back to you. Being so focussed on this pregnancy thing will only cause you not to get pregnant, because you are too tense. My daughter has not given up on the idea that one day, she will have (at least one) child, but she has let go of her obsession. When it comes, it comes, and when not then you just have to learn to accept that or you can still adopt a child (as friends of mine did after YEARS of weekly!!! trying!! The moment she had adopted one baby, she became pregnant. So there you have it. Try to find happiness in other things, like astrology, if you really want to learn it.

Two weeks learning astrology is nothing of course. After one year, you will more or less have the basics in your head and this (I think) depends very much on how fanatic you are and how much you want to become good at it. The moment I got my first book on how to erect a chart (way back in 1973), I was hooked and could not put my books down. I had to learn the hard way, doing all the calculations by hand. There were no computers. It took me about 2 years to feel more or less comfortable interpreting a chart, but had to keep my books at all times next to me for reference (I still do sometimes after 30 years). You never stop learning, ever. This was natal astrology. In 1994 I decided to get my diploma which took 3 years and 2 full days of exams.

In November 2006 I joined this Forum and a couple of month later I discovered horary so I am only doing it now for 1.5 years. I went through 5 horary books and loads of articles, mainly from the internet and I still feel I have come only half way. It will probably take another year before I will feel really confident. So there you have it. It takes loads of time and a lot of dedication, genuine interest and perseverence. But it opens a whole new world for you and you will be helped greatly when you go through difficult times, like you do now. Try to relax. If you are meant to have children in this life, you will get them, sooner or later. If not, you have to accept this and find happiness by either caring for children or adopting them.

I have not given up the idea that I will still get a grandchild!
Cheers, Starlink

[wantababy]

That was comforting as well as reprimanding!

I'm 30 yrs old, been married for 3 yrs and trying to have a baby for the past 1.5 yrs.

When I started learning astrology abt 2-3 wks back, it was with the intention of finding answers to the problems in my life. But more than that, I was so curious to find out that all these planets and zodiacs have so much of an impact on our lives...which most of us commoners fail to understand. Added to that, am finding it extremely difficult to understand whatever I'm reading. Like I said, my friend is gonna come over in a cpl of days to where I live and I'm definitely going to get some basic questions cleared up.

I said I feel like a loser because I so very much want motherhood....and yes, I kind of see it like an exam which I'm failing for the past 1.5 yrs and everyone else is passing in the first attempt!

I would not classify the other women who do not have children as losers. It is just the way I interpret whatever is happening in my life now.

To make matters worse, another one of my friend got pregnant. Good for her, but makes me feel every worse, that things are still not looking up for me!

Everything I've read and whosoever I've consulted, all point to Sep-Oct of this year to be the period when I'm gonna be blessed with a baby, but that's too far away! And I really pray to God to give me the strength to brave this period!

[starlink]

Hi Wantababe, yes, I can very well imagine how you feel as my daughter went through the same thing. Every month another girlfriend would get married and the one's that were married already, were getting pregnant, so she was constantly confronted with this and I have seen first hand what it does to you. I feel really helpless when I read stories like yours, because apart from some astrological interpretation, I cannot really help any further of course. These are things of life and either we get them or we dont and if we dont or can't get them for whatever reason, than we have to learn to accept it in the end, there is really nothing else people can do. Hard but "that's life" as many say. Anyways, I really hope your wish will soon be fulfilled. Maybe it will help to have a test done on both of you to see if there could be a fertiliy problem. At least then you will know what you are up to and can take measures accordingly. That's what I would do, but OK, that's me

By the way, I did not want to really reprimand you. I just think that NOone should see themselves as a looser of anything. That's all. And in your case it is totally not necessary because you cannot help it that you are not (yet) pregnant.

All the very best!
Starlink

[wantababy]

Thank you so much.
Inspite of this being a learning site for astrology, you are taking time to console me (ofcourse I do desperately need it). That is quite heartening!

Hubby and I have both got our tests done. Based on the tests done so far, one problem cropped out and am currently on the medication for the same.

Like I said, right now, am going thro' a really really tough phase.....driving me crazy infact!

Thanks for all your support!