Ceres: The Great Mother

[joannski3]

Arian,

I haven't really studied my yod, I don't know how it manifests itself. The asteroids are really important, actually. I blew them off to, but my mentor is actually a famous astrologer here in the U.S. and he pretty much showed me how invaluable their info is, but I had my doubts the way you did.

If you want to PM or post your birth data, I'd be more than happy to PM you back my thoughts on your Ceres, and inform you of your other major asteroids. Ceres, the mother by progression can mean you literally are becoming pregnant, for a woman, and my astrologer has proof of this on his page from clients (names remain anonymous of real clientele).

to paraphrase, these are findings from his research, this is his website:
http://www.neptunecafe.com/Ceres.html

I can provide detailed birth info of the client if you want, but she had Gemini sun conjunct Ceres natally, this conjunction seeks to be a parent naturally. Initially, she wasn't able to concieve when she first went in for her consultation. she had a good grasp of astrology and couldn't figure out why she couldn't concieve. Jupiter by transit was conjunct her Leo moon. Her moon natally was also well aspected, forming a trine to her Jupiter-Neptune conjunction natally, as well as sextiles to her Sun and Saturn.

The obstacle turned out to be progressed Ceres applying a challenging square aspect to Pluto in 12th house. the short version, without going on into a lengthy discussion of what was going on- if you would like to take a guess here's a pop quiz: natal Pluto in 12th house also formed sesquisquares (135 deg) to Venus and Mars natally. When the Ceres progression completed the square to natal Pluto, it went on to form an inconjunction (150 deg) to BOTH progressed AND natal Jupiter! This was when she and her husband were blessed with their first child. Also at this time, transit Jupiter was squaring her natal Ceres, and Transit Ceres was also conjunct her Midheaven.

Astrologers, note the difference: Jupiter to her moon did not work. Jupiter to Ceres did, and Jupiter to Ceres did(EDIT: should read Jupiter to Ceres did, and Ceres to Jupiter Did!!) !!

David Letterman had Ceres by secondary progression conjunct his sun exact when he became a father, but no other planet in his chart gave any kind of indication he was becoming a dad at the time. Letterman's transit was a once in a lifetime event. Of course other things such as Transit Uranus in 5th house, especially if conjunct moon can indicate pregnancy, but Ceres- and I guarantee if you do some googling you will be able to confirm this- Ceres is positively correlated with indicating a child.
**I can find the data for when Letterman had his first child at 56 and his natal data if you wish to look up the same info. I apologize right now for being too lazy to post all the references, but would be glad to do so for anyone who wants to seriously study this further***

Angelina Jolie also has Ceres active in her chart as Ceres also deals with food- and Angie is very active in her humanitarian efforts to help the starving children. However, get this: we all know how Angelina Jolie did a complete 180, literally marrying Billy Bob with blood vials to becoming "addicted to children" I'm so glad you brought this up, Arian, and sorry for going off topic here, but guess what Angelina's chart was doing after she married Billy Bob?
Angelina's progressed Midheaven in 2000 was forming a conjunction with her natal Ceres in rock solid Taurus. Her reputation and professional life (progressed midheaven) was now anchored to the Ceres archetype, giving her respect for a more traditional lifestyle, and became interested in having children.

Back to her Ceres being in Taurus. I mentioned how Ceres is associated with food, in Taurus providing the necessities in life, Angelina donates 1/3 of her paycheck to charity, and much of her work is for starving children

This is way off topic, but I wanted to show you case studies where Ceres has been able to show solid correlations with parenthood. Pay attention when Uranus aspects Ceres by transit, or Jupiter if you are planning the pregnancy, and check to see the aspects Ceres makes by progression, and also the aspects progressions make if any to your natal Ceres, including the MC and Asc.

Juno is also an indicator for partnership, many astrologers mistakenly use Venus to predict marriage, but Juno indicates this much in the same way you look to Ceres for parenthood. However, you need to have Saturn and 7th house connections with the partner in order for the relationship to have any long-term potential.

I'd be happy to take a look at your chart and tell you about your Ceres, I've bragged a bit about my new solar fire on a couple of posts, but I would only use it to erect the chart, I would give it my personal analysis.

I hope I can make you into a believer, and maybe a couple of others too. Don't let those asteroids intimidate you, they are the feminine archetype, and I think SUBCONSCIOUSLY they've been put on the backburner because they are female archetypes. Think about it. Its much more fun to play with the male energies like Mars and Pluto and Uranus. Sure, we have Venus but I said SUBCONSCIOUSLY because I didn't want anyone out there to think i was calling them sexist; I was guilty of it to until my mentor shared with me his case studies.

Again, I didn't post all the dates, birthchart info, but if anyone would like to see it for themselves, I'd be happy to get the information again and post it for you all

[VenusInAries]

Hi Joan - loved your post will send you a pm later actually going out the door but wanted to give a quick reply that i loved your post - as far as yods and asteroids go to be honest I haven't done alot of studies on them (my expertise I have over 100 charts is on serial killers - when they kill why they kill ect) and we did not discuss asteroids amongst ourselves that much only talked about the true yod perse - but I do agree that asteroids are very important

- as far as ceres when it comes to food I have noticed a lot of charts of aneroxics and bulmics that have ceres issues going on -

And yes Juno I knew about marriage they always say look to a man's venus to know what type of woman he likes but I always find his juno to be more accurate -

I do have to run but wanted to absolutely agree on the importance of asteroids I acutely feel my chiron conjunct venus in the 6th as well as my vesta conjunct merc in the 8th house - but in all honestly never studied their affects in a yod nor gotten the veiws of my astrologer friends on them pertaining to a yod

okay mars in sag here has to run bbl and will pm take care

[VenusInAries]

oh and ps I dont know if solar fire gives interpetations or just runs charts just to let you know and this might show my amatueruness however you spell that but I just do charts old school by the math and drawing them out myself if I have to do one for the sake of this site to show it I use astro.com but I do the math myself ect and the interps are just from me anywho my ceres is 9 aqua in the 4th only aspects it makes is sextile venus and trine to merc

[joannski3]

Aaaawww, thanks, Venus :-) can you let me know your full birthdate info? I like to look at the whole chart and get a feel for it. I also like to see it because then I can see what signs and houses the aspecting planets are in, what they are doing, because they will share that energy when aspecting Ceres.

What a neat synchronicity that you are studying serial killers...if you search threads for serial killers, I posted a question last summer a while back because I remember a roomate I had back in college had a book written about astrology and Serial Killers, and it went on to analyze a bunch of charts of criminals.

Most of the case studies were Geminis, and interestingly, the second highest number of murderers were Sagittarius, which is the polar opposite of Gemini... hmmm... i'm sure you don't have the exact same people studied in your research, but does your data correlate similarly? I can see the Gemini in being some sort of sociopath, leading a double life. Take that horrible man, I think he was a SAG but I could be wrong- ah! I can't remember the name. The very handsome man from Washington that killed the sorority women in Florida. Ted Bundy? Someone like him appeared so charming and warm. Even the judge made a ridiculous statement, like " you could have made a good lawyer" or "its too bad you didn't become a lawyer" expressing DISAPPOINTMENT that Ted Bundy didn't go to law school, he spoke as if it were a loss to the scholars in law circles! I want to say he was a SAG, so charming but that's kind of a Gemini theme, having two sides, but Sagittarius is related. They can be quite the charmers when they need to be.

Also, its funny how some of these killers manifest their signs. Take for instance the infamous Charles Manson. He was a SCORP - like myself ;-) . Mr. Manson never actually did he killing himself, like a nasty scorpio, he instead MANIPULATED others TO KILL FOR HIM! I mean, if that's not scorpio, i don't know what is!

Are you by chance familiar with this book? I have searched and searched for it, and no where have I found it. I look in websites for books, for astrology, books AND astrology, and because I can't remember title or author, none of my searches yield any results. this is sad because the book is so cool. If you know the one I'm talking about, I would be so happy to find out the title and/or author(s)

Want to know what else is neat? My mars is in SAG also! is that how we manifest it? kind of like the ADD syndrome, impatience, little hyper, flighty? I always wondered where the Gemini in my chart was hiding, but I guess its hiding in my Mars :-)

thanks so much for the props, it was very nice of you, now that you have stroked my ego, i'm more than happy to look at your chart , just remember to send me the birthday, time and location to plug n play in solar fire for fast interpretation

You said you are a beginner and are figuring out charts by hand?!?! Holy Baloney! Why would you go to such lengths?! That is impressive. I never learned how. I was always stellar at math, but I just didn't have the patience to sit there and read the book to teach me how to do it. I'm sure i could figure it out, I would just have to find out how to manually figure out the exact ASC and houses. Otherwise its easy to look up planets in the ephemeris and just insert them.

Its also impressive to be studying complete charts of serial killers as a beginner. How long have you been studying ? I'd be interested to read some of your work. How did you meet your famous astrologer friends? sorry for being so nosey, I'm just fascinated with everything you said because i can't believe you are new! How new is new? Did you know the astrologers before deciding to study astrology?

I started that way, sort of. I began as a client paying for a consult, then he saw my chart and kindly offered to mentor me if i wished, that we had some nice mentor/apprenticeship connections. For instance his sun is conjunct exact my midheaven

[VenusInAries]

hee hee sorry had to chuckle at your post I have mars in sag oppose merc in gemini so there was something in the way you conversed that that opposition found appealing lol.

Oh I am not a beginner ( consider myself amatureness because I never claim to know it all..will always be a student) lol I have studied for over 18 years taken classes apart of the Arizona Astrology Assoc. - taken the test ect.. and that is where I got started doing charts by hand - when my friends in the Astrology Association told me that apart of taking the astrologer test to be certified was showing you could do the math and doing the charts on your own I started that way over 18 years ago so really it's not a big deal I can almost do them in my head now at least enough of it to get an overall picture until I can get a chart done..

The serial killer stuff I have has taken years to get and go thru ect and I really don't focus on a sign perse that they are - I have noticed that all the serial killers but one (richard ramirez..personally dont' think he ever would have been one if it weren't for drugs and influences from his uncle) anyway they all have stressful stuff going on with their mars saturn and pluto -sadistic to say the least - and as far as Ted Bundy he had very stressful aspects with mars saturn and pluto and when he killed I noticed transiting moon aspects to those stressors are what set him off - the other killers that take longer in between their kills had slower moving transits with the moon setting things off when they killed and with what info I could get on the victims the victims had very similar aspects going on with their charts and created interesting composites with their killers so that is the sort of stuff I look at not really much on what sign they were sorry I could go on and on about why Jeffrey Dahmer ate his victims ect from his chart - any who I will pm ya my birth info no problem

Oh I haven't studied Charles Mansons chart in to much detail sorry guess I consider him more of a mass murder not serial killer - charts are different for them - but yes lol that does sound like a scorp way to do it lol ..hopefully this made sense my cat had to be in front of the screen the whole time lol :P

[joannski3]

Venus,

we are going to get kicked off for going so far off topic, but I want to add a snipet- BRAVO and kudos to you for noticing the moon! Do you look at progressed moon or transit? I always look at progressed moon when it comes to timing an event. If you don't already, look up in your ephemeris (again) times in your life, or anyone else's for that matter when major things happened, you will see that the progressed moon is always doing something!

I'd like to learn how to do the charts by hand, alas, its my small attention span. My mentor lives in another state, but maybe when we meet up next time he can show me how to write the charts up by hand.

you are in AZ? or just went to school there? i'm in LV, NV i love going to arizona for short weekends. i've never been to an astrology conference nor tried to take the test, i don't really study in a conventional way, i'm very disorganized, not too methodical. But i'm trying to get serious about it now as my progressed lunar return approaches and saturn return looms ahead!

Part of the reason i want to pracitice more is to be sure i'm comfortable with natal charts and transits, progressions, mastering the basics. Take a look at my post in the forum policies and procedures, i had an idea for an activity to help us 'practice' will PM you back with your info on your asteroids prob this weekend when i'm off from work.

Joanna

[Arian Maverick]

Hello everyone

I have created this thread with joannski3's permission to serve as a continuation of a discussion begun in Yods!? Did you know this???........ ; I have moved some of the posts over from this thread so we can continue to develop and expand upon this topic.

Arian Maverick

[starlink]

Hello Joansski, I am very pleased to see a knowledgable astrologer enter this Forum and you even made me curious about Ceres. Have NO idea where it is in my chart and even less about what it means, but maybe in the course of these posts I will have a better idea about it. Will start looking for my Ceres now. Cheers, Starlink

[starlink]

Hi again, well according to my Solar Fire programm, Ceres in my chart falls in my 5th house in Aries at 9° and exactly semi-sextiles Pallas at 9° Pisces in my 4th. Ceres conjuncts my Venus at 12° Aries and trines the ruler of my Ascendant Pluto at 11° Leo. Does this show that I am terribly fertile? (I am you see, I hardly had to try to become pregnant LOL!!).

Juno 1° Capricorn trine my Mercury at 2° Taurus . Vesta at 21° Taurus, opposing my Jupiter at 23° Scorpio and Ascendant at 25° Scorpio. Vesta falls in my 6th house. No idea how to interprete all these, but I did made some notes once about these 4 (after Kaiousei brought my attention to them, he LOVES them) and will get them out of the box and look at them with more interest. Star.

[lillyjgc]

Hi all- interesting topic:
Here's a link for those who are exploring ceres.

http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/ceres.html

Cheers, lillyjgc

[enigmas]

Hi Joannski3!

Could you tell mi something about my ceres? He is in my 8.hose at 11 degrees of Taurus. And makes square with venus in 5.house.

[LoneStar]

Joannski... your passion for astrology just *beams* and *emanates* throughout your posts!! I can feel your excitement for astrology truly shine through!!! :sunny:

This has been a very interesting thread...

I'm going to go play with my chart and find my Ceres now.
I think she's hidden in the 12th for me...
which makes me sad ...I don't know why she's hiding... ?

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Originally Posted by starlink

No idea how to interprete all these, but I did made some notes once about these 4 (after Kaiousei brought my attention to them, he LOVES them) and will get them out of the box and look at them with more interest.

Glad I could point you to them! And yes, I do love the Quartet. ^.^

Thanks for including that link to all of those articles (I'm reading through them all myself now, some of them I think I've read already), however, I feel I should warn people. Obviously, any article that claims the Quartet are somehow less effective in the charts of men needs to be shot. By that same token we can assume Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Sol, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto must be less effective in the charts of females, and we know that's not true. Also, any article that attempts to persuade you that the Quartet are all exclusively feminine is also wrong, there isn't much feminine about Pallas (which actually brings out an interesting pattern, why are all the air planets androgenous in some fashion?).

[joannski3]

Hi everyone!

I'm so happy to have turned a couple heads, it feels good to generate interest in something new, especially if it was something you didn't really care too much for.

I am posting right now my analysis of Arian's Ceres, and its open of course for anyone to talk about. I don't mind helping others find their Inner Mothers as well, but Venus is next in line, and after that I'll just go look from the top of the post, see who was first

Just have one request. Its easier for me to plug and play your birthday info into my solar fire software, pull up a wheel and look at your chart rather than read the names of the planets and the degrees. I'm naturally a more visual learner and although I'm seeing what you typed in, it feels like i'm *listening out loud* because I'm reading. If you share your birth info, the time, date, and location of course I can type it in and have your wheel up in less than a minute.

OK -- So lets start the lesson PART I and talk about what Cers means and symbolizes and then I'll post up Arian's chart next (Just to tease her I know she's waiting ;-) ). I didn't sleep last night, after working (i work nights) I went home and studied Arian's wheel so I'll be quick so I can get to bed and read your comments tomorrow.

Ceres is nicknamed the Great Mother because that is exactly who she represents in our charts; our inner mother. Everyone has this instinct, and its especially important for people who may not of had the most nurturing, loving childhoods or may of had a great father figure but mother was either absent or perhaps abusive. In any case, if you don't have a mother or female role model in your life its important to learn how to nurture yourself.

I actually recently started devoting more time to Ceres because my astrologer friend and mentor strongly advised me to do so- I was recently hired at a new job after a very taxing year, especially difficult from the fall till new years, but it was all in all a very large snowball that kept rolling and rolling.... and rolling........still rolling......

Its a long story, but the short version is I have a new job, and I had to fight for it in order to keep it. My job really depended on me staying healthy not just physically but emotionally too. When my nerves act up, the negative energy manifests itself into physical ailments in my body. I needed to find Ceres and learn how to nurture myself so I could take care of my heart, body, and mind and I hope to turn the light switch on for others too so you all can take care of yourselves too!

All the 4 major asteroids (or minor planets) represent 4 different woman relationships, i'll list them all here just so you can have a quick outline, but the asteroids are important because they are the female archetype inside us all. Only recently have astrologers been spending more time with them, but they are equally important as the planets, and can be used to predict important, life changing events.

The four woman relationships are:

1) the Mother-- Ceres, our topic today for discussion :-)
2) the Daughter-- Pallas Athene
3) the Sister-- Vesta
4) the Wife-- Juno

In order to type up a quick summary, the following is paraphrased from the best introductory book on the Asteroids (in my opinion), "Asteroid Goddesses: The Mythology, Psychology, and Astrology of the Re-emerging Feminine" (yay! woo-hoo for our femine side!!) Authors:
Demetra George & Douglas Bloch

Ceres is symbolized in astrology by the sickle-- the gift of agriculture. She represents unconditional love, the love that is naturally passed from mother to infant. She is best depicted by the signs Cancer, Taurus-Scorpio polarity, and Virgo

Cancer- as ruler of cancer she represents the archetype of the universal mother. How we recieve and give nurturance, how we develop feelings of self-worth, how we provide for and care for others. Also how we respond neurotically if these needs are not met.

Taurus-Scorpio Polarity- governs lesson of attachment and aversion, pathology of loss and rejection, capacity of grief and sorrow, principle of sharing.

Virgo- she addresses the issues of productivity, growth, self reliance, and work.

A positive Ceres mother-love and the child's receptivity to it is so important, its a huge part of our foundation as we grown into compassionate, kind adults. People don't realize that this is where we find the ability to love oneself, to love others, rejoice in their accomplishments. If Ceres energy is distorted or insufficient, we grow into self-rejecting adults instead of self-accepting. So this will then turn into a critical, judgemental attitude toward others with resentment, jealousy of their achievements! So you see, Ceres is quite important during development and later when we share our Ceres energy with our children.

Ceres in the chart will indicate fertility, pregnancy, and also in some cases perhaps child abuse where the mother was the aggressor, or nurturing needs were not met as a child from harder aspects in the natal chart. Ceres making harmonious aspects with Jupiter or the moon, well placed by house, particularly 5th will indicate conceiving children. There are other factors also, but Ceres by transit and/or progression is strong enough by herself to indicate pregnancy (depending on the transit of course), so please note that.

Remember also that because Ceres rules the entire mothering complex that she also rules many psychological complexes that arise from negative, early parenting conditioning.

Also rules food complexes, as Venus pointed out in a PM to me, she noticed Ceres being prominent in Bullimics and Anorexics... good job, Venus, and good eye! Especially if you didn't know that Ceres ruled food complexes, that was a very astute observation, I am impressed.

Think about how eating disorders and food complexes arise? deep feelings of unworthiness, a poor self image, sometimes the need to live up to standards of perfection set by parents- there millions of women for whom obsessive dieting has become a way of life. the remedy for these imbalances may also be found in Ceres psychology- developing unconditional love for oneself and others. This is also true for those other kinds of eating complexes where food is used as a substitution for love and approval

For People w/prominent Ceres in their charts the need to transform their attachemtns to the ppl they love and the objects or ideas they value can become a major life lesson. When ceres is prominent in the chart or aspected to Pluto, separations may become a constant theme in the native's life. examples include: loss of one's parents thru death, rejection, abandonment, or illness; loss of one's children thru death, custodial award to other parent or state, or abduction; and separations from relationships, one's pets, work, or a secure environment. Grieving due to a sense of loss. If you read the mythology of Ceres, you will understand. The daughter of Ceres, Persiphone was kidnapped and violated by Pluto. Reading the book I recommended explains the mythology and it helps to learn and retain the symbolism and literal meaning of Ceres

** Last year my then fiance and myself bought a puppy together. The poor little baby was sick unbeknownst to us and died. We were grief stricken and couldn't stop crying. Looking back at the time it happened, comparing our natal, progressions, and transit charts, Ceres was in the same degree in all charts and prominent while we experienced this immense and heavy sorrow.

Finally, as ruler of cancer, Ceres provides food as a means of communicating love and acceptance. As ruler of Virgo, the food of the all-nourishing mother becomes the actual physical nourishment that builds, sustains, and repairs the cellular structure of the body. Maternal concern of Ceres insures the proper health and well being of teh body, and signifies the therapeutic use of food in healing. Ceres-Virgo types will be drawn to healing techniques that employ vitamins, diet, and herbs.

Ceres in Virgoan expression, depicts the ability and capacity to work as Virgo astrologically rules the working class. ceres symbolizes the motherly concern for the workers, social service org's, labor unions, and labor productivity. Also rules strikes and other expressions of "refusal to work". Therefore, challenging aspects to Ceres, natally or in current paterns can point to the inability to work or hold a job, disability, prolonged unemployment, or being the recipient of workers comp.

When this complex polarizes inot its opposite, we of course have the individual who is completely obsessed with work. hence the ceres/virgo archetype can manifest either as the work o holic or teh professional loafer, with hints given by the other factors in the horoscope.

the individual with a healthy ceres expression learns the wisdom of combining periods of hard work with times of relaxation and play. In this way, he/she attains a balanced work life and avoids the pitfalls of either becoming a burn out in their job/work or a drop out of school.

*phew* any questions? am now going to attempt to post Arian's interpretation, and prob won't answer anymore questions till tomorrow A.M. at this time.

For those of you who wanted to discuss Ceres in their horoscope, PM me your birth info so that I can put it in my solar fire and pull up your chart. For the newbies- I cannot do an interpretation w/o exact birth time, I need to know what house Ceres is in, Its so important. I will post a list tomorrow to of who is in line, and meanwhile as we learn together we can share our insights on the charts I post.

Thanks again for your interest!

Joanna

[Arian Maverick]

This was an excellent post, and quite sychronistic as well; I don't normally read magazines in the library, but I had time to spare today and browsed through a copy of Psychology Today. The main article that attracted my attention was one about young women and eating disorders, how colleges have become something of a "breeding ground" for such unhealthy behavior because young people have been increasingly brought together with those of their own age not only in school but in extracurricular activities as well; with the gender ratio at most colleges and universities tipping more towards females, some psychologists are concerned that increased contact of young women with others like themselves with fuel competition between them for the attention of males.

Along with striving for the perfect resume, more and more young women are attempting to attain the perfect body, and this has resulted in much distortion in how they view themselves and others.

Therefore, I believe it is no coincidence that you were to bring up this topic at this time; the archetype of Ceres needs to be restored into the mass consciousness.

I need to check to see what Ceres is doing now...

Arian Maverick

[joannski3]

Hey, sorry I can't post Arian's Ceres analysis today. Here's my attempt to post her data: her chart wheel and aspect grid. This is so you can get familiar with the placements and know what i'm talking about when i post my interpretation tomorrow. i hope it works... if you click on the thumbnail you need to zoom in with your browser b/c the screen is too small

[joannski3]

aww, thanks, Arian. Its no coincidence that you brought up the article and the magazine found YOU

...you have Ceres in the first house... i work nights and i really need to get some sleep, but real fast, you have a grand trine composed of 3 asteroids all in angular houses, so this is actually an important part of you!

Vesta riding high in 5 deg Capricorn in 10th house wow
Juno anchoring down low in 4th house at 25 deg Leo
Finally Ceres in 28 deg. Capr

the first house, real fast is the ego and how people percieve you, or what you project to others. this implies that your personality is being projected as nurturing, sympathetic, concerned for others. One may identify with the role as being a parent, provider, a "mother-hen" type. May also be necessary for you to nurture yourself.

i'll get into the other asteroids more deeply, but do you see the link here with the grand trine, how it fits in with your experience at the library, which you recognized and dubbed as no coincidence? First off, with your Uranus placing in the 10th house (This is why I like to see the WHOLE chart. note to beginners: the reason computer generated charts aren't so good is because they miss THE BIG PICTURE!) UR in 10th is an excellent placing for an astrologer, and with Vesta there, its absolutely wonderful because it's like you were given a gift. Your intuition is much stronger, and also being conjunct the south node, you feel comfortable and at ease with astrology, because the south node is conjunct the MC w/ Vesta you're probably a born natural with the astrology, its comfortable for you, you may have been familiar with it in a past life.

i'll give you more details about it tomorrow, but can you understand why i was so excited about you vocalizing the need for us to reintegrate Ceres into human consciousness in order to HELP and NURTURE them? that was YOUR ceres talking :-). the 1st house energies you have are charged up and ready to spread the word any way they can, and your unique planetary configuration by your MC and in your 10th house makes you identify with this -can't think of word- this cause (i think cause works here). I'll check your transits and progressions later to help figure out what is activating her in your chart. I'd be willing to guess you have a progressed moon aspect going on that is activating a more expansive progression. progressions work that way, you feel the effects over time and the moon incites certain events. well, i'll be talking to you soon, and will write more tomorrow

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Ceres is symbolized in astrology by the sickle-- the gift of agriculture. She represents unconditional love, the love that is naturally passed from mother to infant. She is best depicted by the signs Cancer, Taurus-Scorpio polarity, and Virgo

Here I disagree. I don't feel Ceres rules any Sign, but instead represents the Earthy Triplicity (perhaps in a cycle) and does best when placed in any of the three.

I do agree with the connection between Ceres and eating disorders, either a lack of an or excess of foods. However, one thing is that Ceres is very, very much like Saturn and I didn't see that touched on in your post. The grand majority of your post, however, I am in agreement with, even though I'm sure I'll find things to nit-pick about, but it won't be anything serious as far as significations go.

However, philosophy is something I'll argue with you about. I don't enjoy the idea of Ceres as the 'great mother' as mothers are something that are already seen in the significations of Luna. However, whereas Luna is directly a parent-child connection, Ceres continues the relationship to close bonds between peers, people whose shoulders we can cry on. Instead of the Great Mother, I propose the Providing Soldier. She has a positive side which is shown in a never-ending flow of met necessities, and she has a negative side that removes that which we need most.

[joannski3]

I'm not going to argue with you, you are entitled to your own opinion; but let me just state right now that for the record, the rulerships aren't something I just made up and decided it fit well. The fundamentals of all I learned concerning the asteroids I got from the book I cited earlier by Demetra George. I didn't coin the term Great Mother, I cited that earlier as well... just curious, who taught you about Ceres rulerships? Because I believe that saying you don't agree with Ceres and her rulershis is fine, but its kind of like saying that Chiron shouldn't be ruled by Sag, or he's not really the wounded healer but maybe the fallen hero- that's fine if you don't like it, but you are arguing with the wrong person. You should be writing to the astrologers who published their research on the subject instead :-). The two people that co-authored the book I liked on asteroids I'll cite again because you may of missed it earlier: "The Asteroid Goddesses, The Mythology, Psychology, and Astrology of the Re-emerging Feminine" by Demetra George and Douglas Bloch....

Did you read that somewhere about Ceres not ruline anything? I'm just curious, because of course you are entitled to your own opinion, I was just wondering if you were aware of the general consensus among professional astrologers on the subject? I'm not posting all of these ideas of my own merit, which is why I cited my sources- trust if they were my ideas, I'd of submitted them for publication! :-)

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

First off, I think you misunderstand my usage of the word 'argue'. I don't mean to use it in the context of 'bicker', but in the context of 'debate'. I have no intention of bickering with you either, but to debate on the topic of Ceres which is a part of something I've taken a profound interest in. Hearing your ideas of what she signifies and the philosophy surrounding those significations is something I'm looking forward to discussing, but I can assure you that I will not agree with everything and will attempt to argue (debate) against a point that doesn't particularly set well with me.

Honestly, I don't care who you choose to cite. This particular book is on my list to get because I am interested in seeing what these authors have to say concerning the members of the Quartet and how much of it is usable original thought and not some handed down mush of keywords. No one taught me Ceres' rulerships, as far as I know of the idea of members of the Quartet being dignified or debilitied in particular triplicities is 100% original. If not, then someone out there and I are on the same wave-length. Since the traditional planets have all but covered the entirety of the Zodiac with their respective marks in the Tables of Essential Dignities, I find it silly to have to shove them over and destroy this system for any reason; it works, so why mess it up?

Did you read that somewhere about Ceres not ruline anything? I'm just curious, because of course you are entitled to your own opinion, I was just wondering if you were aware of the general consensus among professional astrologers on the subject?

This statement puzzled me. Of course, I assume you're attempting to shake me from my position by assuming I will be moved by this idea that I come at odds against 'big-wigs', but trust me. There is no general consensus among professional astrologers. Opinions concerning the Quartet or any asteriodal body's usage for that matter ranges from "they have no signification", "they are significant only if on an angle or conjoined with a personal planet", to "Ceres rules the Sign of Cancer, take that Luna".

After having to plod my way through Hampar's "Electional Astrology: The Art of Timing" I've come to the conclusion that anyone can write a book and make up their own rules, even if these rules form a striking opposition to the rules handed down through astrological tradition and centuries of practical application.

I'm also pretty upset with you for attacking me and my reputation and know-how as an astrologer instead of arguing against my ideas. I only argued for or against the ideas you presented without naming you as the originator of them, you seem to be quick to take things personal and I assure you I will not attack you on a personal level when you are obviously working very hard to have a good discussion about Ceres and perhaps the other three members of the Quartet.

The ideas you present are up for scrutiny, not you as a person or your skills as an astrologer. The same goes for me or anyone else who chooses to post in this thread or any other thread in this forum.

[joannski3]

Nobody is attacking your reputation. Remember how you got so upset because you felt like my Uranus comment was not on topic? Well this string started by accident. A couple of people were happy when my post went off topic in another thread, but they gave me a thread to continue.

You are right, you should present your ideas so they can learn your opinion about asteroids also. I'm just saying I'm not going to debate your philosophy on Ceres because its not my philosophy to defend. I just accept it because I think it suits her well, especially when you read the mythology and learn the story of Ceres and her daughter Persephone and how Per. was abducted by Pluto- Ceres is the goddes the Sicilians chose to be their patron saint because supposedly Sicily was the island Pluto abducted her daughter to, Ceres came her to find her, and thus the Sicilians paid homage.

I asked you where you read about Saturn because i wanted to know if you drew up your own conclusions or if you read it from another book. I also mentioned that if i had come up with my own ideas i would have submitted them for publication.

With that being said, you are welcome to post whatever on my thread, but we moved it bc a couple people wanted me to expand and share with them what i know about Ceres, and do some chart interpretations.

I've finished one of my charts, I'm going to post it late late tonight when i get home from work, or maybe little bits at a time. not sure yet. Just understand that i'm not going to debate my ideas with anyone, but feel free to teach what you know about Ceres- just cite facts and state your opinion. You should care about me citing sources, then you know i'm not just selling something I thought of. Also, citing sources of course gives readers an opportunity to check out the same source if they please.

There have been posts here before where citations have been requested, I just am used to doing it from all the writing i had to do in college.

[joannski3]

I'm sorry, i said Sicilians chose Ceres as their patron saint- That's not true, it's a different word. I think they chose her as their 'patron goddess' so about the equivalent of patron saint, just couple thousand years ago instead of during modern times

[joannski3]

Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi

The ideas you present are up for scrutiny, not you as a person or your skills as an astrologer. The same goes for me or anyone else who chooses to post in this thread or any other thread in this forum.

On a final note, let me be the first to say that I don't claim to be an astrologer. I am still studying, we could say maybe still in the midst of my apprenticeship, but i don't consider myself an astrologer yeb because i am yet to experience my "aha moment" where i can call a theory or good idea i presented 100% totally original and mine, tested and studied--

that being said, if you aren't all talk and are really who you seem to be, you are obviously quite intelligent and I have a suggestion for you which you should think about since your philosophy on Ceres you said was 100% yours- as in you came up with the idea yourself, drawing your own conclusions because of ... (fill in the blank with whatever supports your opinion). Of course having someone else in a different part of the world come up with the same idea would be out of your control, HOWEVER-

you should seriously consider gathering up info to back up your ideas, study and compare birth charts and submit for publication your own theories about Ceres. At such a young age, you would be making quite a name for yourself in the astrological community, even if that's not what you are here for, it would still make your Leo side quite proud.

Use celebrity charts and friends with case studies concerning progressions and transits you can elaborate on to expand and back up your philosophy, and you can come up with a great book w/o handing down a bunch of key words.

key words by the way are a good means of remembering the big picture, but i agree with you, the philosophy needs to be presented in the book so that you can understand WHY. well, you will like Asteroid Goddes book because the authors present nothing but philosophy, mythology and history, psychology, and even pathology of these asteroids, and i think you will find the reading material right up your alley.

I guess I just won't argue (debate) your points because I just don't see the point, they are your theories vs. another theory, and i just believe what i believe. Your points i'm sure are valid, and doesn't mean they also can't be true. Just if you can, share case studies with us. You need to remember that astrology is an art AND a science, and its important to present evidence too. this last statement is not intended in any way to be a put down. this is why i keep citing sources and why i explained instances in 3 different charts to back up the ideas

~*~ J *~*

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

guess I just won't argue (debate) your points because I just don't see the point, they are your theories vs. another theory, and i just believe what i believe. Your points i'm sure are valid, and doesn't mean they also can't be true.

This is the entire points of debates. It's not about convincing the other person their ideas are wrong, it's about forcing yourself to re-examine your ideas. To dig deeper to strengthen the fallacies your opponent points out to you. Now, no doubt the community could learn a lot by us simultaneously posting our differing ideas about Ceres as they will be able to compare and contrast, but we are missing out in learning as well as you are not there to point out my inconsistancies and force me to dig deeper to see why this is or is not so and I am not there to do the same for you.

I don't care how 'right' or 'wrong' my original ideas are. I care about learning and expanding my understanding by people saying "Hey...wait a second...you're a little off base here."

There is no point in having any topic in which everyone is forced to passively agree. The inability to discuss possible weaknesses completely undermines the importance of any topic as there is no ability to expand understanding of the topic without disagreement and voicing that disagreement...but, whatever you want to do.

[joannski3]

I don't care what you think. go ahead and post all your opinions and your philosophies.

Now I'm going to ignore you because you have distracted me enough. I have to finish up some work.