Astrological Signature

[Psiber_Space]

I'm not sure how this applies to someone, but every so often I hear about Astrological Signatures. Basically you add up the elements and qualites of each of your planets to determine what sign you are most like. For example:

Pisces Sun: Mutable Water
Libra Moon: Cardinal Air
Aquarius Mercury: Fixed Air
Aries Venus: Cardinal Fire
Saggitarius Mars: Mutable Fire
Libra Jupiter: Cardinal Air
Aries Saturn: Cardinal Fire
Libra Uranus: Cardinal Air
Scorpio Neptune: Fixed Water
Virgo Pluto: Mutable Earth
----------------------------------
Fire: 3 Earth: 1 Air: 4 Water: 2
Cardinal: 5 Fixed: 2 Mutable: 3

In this example, my chart, I'm Cardinal Air, or Libra is my Astrological Signature.

If there had been a tie, then one could count Sun and Moon twice, and if there still were a tie, then the sign on the Ascendant and Midheaven.

So now my reason for this post. Can someone explain to me what purpose the Astrological Signature serves? Also, I'd like to know what everyone else's Astrological Signature is, for fun? :-)

[NicholasH]

Mutable-4 Fixed-3 Cardinal-3
Fire-4 Air-3 Water-2 Earth-1

sun-fixed air
moon- cardinal air
merc.-fixed air
ven.-mutable water
mars- mut. fire
jup.-card. fire
sat.-mut. fire
uranus- mut. fire
nept.-cardinal earth
pluto- fixed water


maybe the signature is like your core you. no clue. haha im a mutible fire so im inspirational? saggitarius like. i have sag. strong in my chart tho so i dont know the difference.

and since your a Cardinal Air a simple def. would be you apply yourself and your action is towards others.

[Liquid Green]

mines hard to define........definitely cardinal, but a mixture of air and water

sun-earth cardinal
moon- earth cardinal
merc-air fixed
venus-air fixed
mars-fire mutable
jupiter- water mutable
saturn- water cardinal
uranus- water fixed
neptune- fire mutable
pluto- air cardinal

4 cardinal, 3 mutable, 3 fixed
3 water, 3 air, 2 earth, 2 fire

mixture of libra and cancer

[Psiber_Space]

Originally Posted by Liquid Green

mines hard to define........definitely cardinal, but a mixture of air and water

sun-earth cardinal
moon- earth cardinal
merc-air fixed
venus-air fixed
mars-fire mutable
jupiter- water mutable
saturn- water cardinal
uranus- water fixed
neptune- fire mutable
pluto- air cardinal

4 cardinal, 3 mutable, 3 fixed
3 water, 3 air, 2 earth, 2 fire

mixture of libra and cancer

LG, you might be able to break that tie with the sign on your Ascendant and Midheaven. What are they?

[Liquid Green]

Libra mid heaven, asc aqua

[Liquid Green]

libra it is i guess!......so we are libra buddies!

[starlink]

The astrological signature must clearly outdo the Sun sign. Lets say you are a Capricorn, so you think you are a nice earthy, steady, serious type of person, but you have a surplus of Cardinal and Fire which translates to Aries, then you can almost forget about your nice earthy qualities. They will be there, but far less noticable. You will feel far more Aries in everything you do (look where the fiery components are in your chart).

You only count the Ascendant if the outcome is equal (like in Psiber Spaces case) in order to break the tie.

A signature is actually only an extra way of getting insight into a person's character, it gives extra blend into the personality you are dealing with.
If there is no signature then that does not mean anything, nothing to worry about.

Cheers, Starlink

[Liquid Green]

when would there be no signature at all starlink..........(and it was me liquid green that had the tie).....is it right to be using the MC and the asc in my case? both are air......(aqua, libr).........i suppose it doesnt matter in my case which i used, but for others?

It does represent me.....i dont feel very earth i must say....i have always put it down to my air asc......but it makes sense that my signature is libra

[Liquid Green]

If there had been a tie, then one could count Sun and Moon twice

I am confused..........why, can you count them twice?.........that would change my signature to cap again.........................

[Sivitri]

Sun mutable fire
moon cardinal earth
mercury mutable fire
venus cardinal earth
mars fixed water
jupiter cardinal fire
saturn mutable fire
uranus mutable fire
neptune cardinal earth

4 mutable 4 cardinal 2 fixed
5 fire 3 earth 2 water 0 air

Prolly a strong sagittarius like and less capricorn?

[starlink]

Hi Liquid, look, at the last post from Sivitri. He (or she) has 4 Mutable and 4 Cardinal. In the elements it is clearly fire. So if his/her Ascendant would be Mutable, then that makes 5 Mutables and signature will be Mutable Fire = Sagittarius. But if Ascendant is Cardinal, then we get 5 Cardinal and that will make for Cardinal Fire = Aries.

Now in your case, it is clearly Cardinal. But Cardinal WHAT? Air or Water?
Your Ascendant is Aquarius and that is Air, so the result is now
Cardinal Air and yes, that is LIBRA signature.
You cannot count them double because then finding the stronger one is impossible.
Ascendant is personal (1st house, clearly showing the way you express your character to the outside world. MC is not, it shows what you want to aim for in this life careerwise or social wise, therefore only use the Ascendant as extra point.
Cheers, Star.

[Liquid Green]

thanks starlink,
so you dont count the sun and moon twice like psiber said in his/(her?) first post.....if there is a tie.....i find that a strange concept....i surely think the asc is the right tie breaker.
As for me having a libran signature...i find this quite appropriate for me, my sun and moon certainly dont explain who i am to a total degree.....(obviously i am more than those two, but to be a combo of all, i think libra suits me to a tea.)
Is this a traditional or modern perspective?
thanks again

[starlink]

Hi Liquid, no, I never heard of this tie braker way of counting the Sun and Moon twice. I have my info from Marion March & Mc.Evers's book "The only way to learn Astrology". They are very reliable and I find their books excellent. This then must be a modern perspective. I never have learned natal astrology from a traditional perspective, this only came to me after I started with Horary which is 90% (as far as I have read) based on tradition.
But ever since I am doing Horary, I start looking in that same way, also with natal astrology. So I look at both rulers for Scorpio, Aquarius and Pisces.
So how did the courtcase go???
Cheers, Starlink

[Psiber_Space]

The reason, as I understand it, for counting the Sun and Moon twice, and/or the Ascendant and Midheaven as tie breakers is just in case one of the other three don't break the tie. If you're debating between fire and air, and your Ascendant is water, then the tie is not broken. Honestly, I don't know how else to do it if we don't add the other three. Then again, it is possible to not break a tie, even with four tie breakers, but that's extremely rare.

[Liquid Green]

i reckon if you need four tie breakers then its quite possible you are just a mix!... that would need to be taken into consideration, i think......either that or a very balanced individual perhaps?

[starlink]

Psiber, if things are equal and you cannot break a tie because the Ascendant is not in one of those elements or modes, then you do not have a signature. This happens more often than not. Some people just dont have a separate signature, which is no problem at all. Then you get what you see straight away.

Silver Floe, no, that is not considered in looking for an Astrological signature.

Cheers, Starlink

[dylan]

I got a fixed water. Seriously i suffers from hypersentivity i think.

[smilingsteph]

Okay here I go!

sun= mutable air gemini
moon= mutable earth virgo
merc= mutable air gemini
venus= fixed earth taurus
mars= fixed earth taurus
jupiter= fixed fire leo
saturn= mutable earth virgo
uranus= fixed water scorpio
neptune= fire mutable sag
pluto= cardinal air libra

cardinal 1
fixed 4
mutable 4

air 3
earth 4
fire 1
water 1

Mutable earth person; mmm interesting I always saw myself as a mutable air
****! I am a virgoish person?
NOOOOO it must be why I like being around virgo people? I really have three virgo friends right now....strange!
Would really rather have more fire in my chart....water eh not so much...seems to messy for me...although might help my problems with my emotions

[Ricaroni]

Originally Posted by Psiber_Space

I'm not sure how this applies to someone, but every so often I hear about Astrological Signatures. Basically you add up the elements and qualites of each of your planets to determine what sign you are most like. For example:

Pisces Sun: Mutable Water
Libra Moon: Cardinal Air
Aquarius Mercury: Fixed Air
Aries Venus: Cardinal Fire
Saggitarius Mars: Mutable Fire
Libra Jupiter: Cardinal Air
Aries Saturn: Cardinal Fire
Libra Uranus: Cardinal Air
Scorpio Neptune: Fixed Water
Virgo Pluto: Mutable Earth
----------------------------------
Fire: 3 Earth: 1 Air: 4 Water: 2
Cardinal: 5 Fixed: 2 Mutable: 3

In this example, my chart, I'm Cardinal Air, or Libra is my Astrological Signature.

If there had been a tie, then one could count Sun and Moon twice, and if there still were a tie, then the sign on the Ascendant and Midheaven.

So now my reason for this post. Can someone explain to me what purpose the Astrological Signature serves? Also, I'd like to know what everyone else's Astrological Signature is, for fun? :-)

I have a really significant astrological signature. It's Uranus and Neptune:

Aquarius Sun in the 12th
Cancer Moon in the 4th
Aquarius Mercury in the 12th
Aries Venus in the 1st
Cancer Mars in the 4th
Libra Jupiter in the 7th
Aquarius Saturn in the 12th
Capricorn Uranus in the 11th
Capricorn Neptune in the 11th
Scorpio Pluto in the 8th
Pisces Rising

See the pattern? 3 12th House placements and Pisces Rising, 3 Aquarius placements and 2 11th House placements, and Uranus and Neptune so tightly conjunct that Neptune is only two minutes past Uranus! Aquarius and Pisces are the signers to my constitution.

[greybeard]

Such tabulations are in common use among astrologers.

However, they are generally used to determine the presence, or lack thereof, of what is usually called a "preponderance." Only when a preponderance is present is such a tabulation of any real value in horoscope interpretation.

There are three Qualities (Modes) of sign in the zodiac: Cardinal, Fixed and Common (Mutable). I consider that there is a preponderance of Quality if six or more planets are in one Quality. For example, in my own chart there are seven planets in Fixed signs, and this shows a preponderance of the attributes of the Fixed signs in my character, or psychic makeup.

There are four Elements in the zodiac, each containing three signs. A preponderance of Element occurs when five or more planets inhabit one Element. I have five planets, including both Lights, in Air; there is an Air preponderance.

We could say of this chart that, having a preponderance of both the Fixed Quality and the Air Element, it has an overtone of Aquarius, the Fixed Air sign. It is possible, although very unusual, for there to be a double preponderance such as I just described that would indicate an overtone (what you are calling here "astrological signature") of a sign in which no planets at all were posited.

There are many other kinds of preponderance. As with the signs, there are two classifications of houses: one group corresponds to the Qualities: the Angular, Suceedent, and Cadent houses. The other corresponds to the Elements and consists of the four triads of houses having their origin at the four angles.

We might have a preponderance of retrograde planets (a highly unusual situation). Only eight of the planets can be retrograde -- Sun and Moon cannot -- and so a preponderance by retrogradation occurs when five or more planets are in retrograde motion.

There can be a preponderance of aspect. If any of the five major aspects (I include the conjunction here as an aspect, which it is not) occur in the chart half again as many times as any one of the other aspects, there is a preponderance of that aspect.

The presence of any sort of preponderance in the horoscope indicates a corresponding preponderance of some characteristic in the psyche of the native. If, for example, a chart shows six planets in Cardinal signs, there is a Cardinal preponderance. This tells us immediately, that the essential nature of this person is oriented toward immediate action in any circumstance. The native will attempt to change surrounding circumstances or direct them to his personal advantage. The person is oriented toward expediency, is opportunistic to a marked degree (preponderance) and this trait will be dominant in the personality. Each of the different preponderances has specific meanings. Preponderances, because they deal with the chart as a whole and do not rely on which planet is involved -- they are general in nature -- are among the most fundamental and powerful of chart features. They indicate traits in the native that are innate, inherent, and not subject to change. They are descriptive of the inborn nature of the person.

There can also be negative preponderance. In my chart, for example, there is no planet in a Water sign. A negative preponderance creates a very dynamic situation in which the native is challenged to meet some specific necessity. Negative preponderance is a very important factor in the development of personality.

Some charts have no preponderances at all, while some others may have many different kinds present. Lack of any sort of preponderance is in itself significant. The person has no particularly strong inclination, leaning or weighting in any direction. This would be indicative of versatility, flexibility in meeting life's circumstances and challenges, adaptability. Depending on other factors in the chart, it could indicate a rather passive or apathetic personality, one with no driving motivation or consuming interest. Everything in a chart can be given meaning, significance in describing a person.

While the simple quantitative tabulation of positions or other features of the chart is generally effective and adequate, in actual practice other chart factors may influence whether the astrologer judges a preponderance to be present. Methods and requirements for allowing or disallowing a preponderance will vary somewhat among different astrologers.

[Dobrev]

Pretty interesting. I've never heard of this before.

Scorpio Sun: Fixed Water
Sag Moon: Mutable Fire
Libra Mercury: Cardinal Air
Scorpio Venus: Fixed Water
Leo Mars: Fixed Fire
Scorpio Jupiter: Fixed Water
Pisces Saturn: Mutuable Water
Capricorn Uranus: cardinal Earth
Capricorn Neptune: cardinal Earth
Scorpio Pluto: Fixed Water
----------------------------------
Fire: 2 Earth: 2 Air: 1 Water: 5
Cardinal: 3 Fixed: 5 Mutable: 2

So Scorpio?

[greybeard]

If we hold rigidly to the numbers, the Fixed Quality lacks one planet in order to qualify as a preponderance. But yes, I would probably (without seeing the chart) say there is a Scorpio overtone to the chart.

But what is more important, more meaningful, is that there is a strong weighting toward Water and toward Fixity. Each of these preponderances will describe some very important personal traits, which are deep, unchanging, and tend to dominate how you meet the world.

[tautomer]

E: 4
A: 4
F: 0
W: 3

F: 3
C: 5
M: 3

This really doesn't say much for me. What it does say is that I lack fire element. I'm all for deliniating things to get an idea of where a person stands, but I think think this is just one step removed too much to mean much. At least without the chart to go along with it. Then it can mean something.

[AllanBeau]

Originally Posted by Psiber_Space

I'm not sure how this applies to someone, but every so often I hear about Astrological Signatures. Basically you add up the elements and qualites of each of your planets to determine what sign you are most like.

So now my reason for this post. Can someone explain to me what purpose the Astrological Signature serves? Also, I'd like to know what everyone else's Astrological Signature is, for fun? :-)

I always thought that you look at your Ascendant and what sign the ruler of it is in. Like I got a Virgo rising with Mercury in Cancer mutual recept Moon in Virgo. So both planets are my chart ruler. Being that my MC is also ruled by Gemini a Mercury ruled sign, Mercury probably is my chart ruler....Even tho my Sun is in Cancer. If you go to extended charts on Astro.com. There's an option labeled METHODS. Click to Pullen Astrology and scroll down the list of type of chart you want and check out "Sign/House Dispositor Graph". You can see what planet has the most influence over the chart. I got 6 total - Moon MR Mercury, Jupiter MR Uranus, Venus in Taurus, Pluto in Scorpio. Its too hard for me to tell what sign rules over me, cause I'm spread all over the place.

OR

You could check out "Simple Chart Delegation - By Walter Pullen". Slightly past half-way down the page, it gives you a list of percentages % that each planet, sign, and mode have. The three strongest signs it gives me is Cancer, Scorpio and Capricorn. Three strongest planets Mercury, Neptune and Moon.

What the hell here's the list:

Cancer Sun Cardinal Water 10th
Virgo Ascendant Mutable Earth
Virgo Moon Mutable Earth 12th
Cancer Mercury Cardinal Water 10th
Taurus Venus Fixed Earth 9th
Cancer Mars Cardinal Water 10th
Aquarius Jupiter Fixed Air 5th
Scorpio Saturn Fixed Water 3rd
Sagittarius Uranus Mutable Earth 3rd
Capricorn Neptune Cardinal Earth 4th
Scorpio Pluto Fixed Water 2nd

Fire -1
Earth - 4
Air - 1
Water - 5

Cardinal - 4
Fixed - 4
Mutable - 3

I got a planet in 7 different signs...Most planets are in feminine signs - 9 total opposed to 2 in masculine in signs. Tho they say the sign on the Ascendant is masculine regardless... Being that the 1st relates to Aries, and all my fire/air houses are ruled by water/earth. So I don't know how that polarity works. The balance of light and dark, or Yang and Yin, or masculine and feminine is the achievement of perfection in the world. I'm triple Yin in Chinese zodiac tho too lol Ox/Snake/Snake

When it comes to modes I'm "Balanced"... Guess that makes me a person who is able to start a project. Finish it, and help somebody else who is lagging behind. I think this is the reason why I don't have a hard time expressing myself and my views when dealing with other people. I take the situation at hand and judge accordingly if I need to be the leader, motivator, or the team player. I have no problems being any of them. People seem to like how I can lead somebody, work alone, and able to also work part of a team... Tho I mostly prefer to be FIRST by being SECOND. Cause we all know who really is the BEST. Don't got the time to prove my worth and maintain position.

[Claire19]

You dont have a sub signature as they call it. You have to have a predominance of element and mode. You dont.

i.e. I have five planets in air and 6 if you include the North Node and five planets in fixed element. The Sun and Moon are fixed as well to add to the weight.

So I have Aquarius signature even though there are no planets in Aquarius. I am an astrologer and that is partly because I have NN in Gemini conjunct Uranus.

You do count Moon and Sun as two points but there has to be at least 5 of any one element or mode to predominate.