Link of Charisma

[Indigojade1]

I am wondering if there are any 'links' to what most would call actors who had a certain on screen charisma. Very strong.

James Dean
River Phoenix
Rudolph Valentino
Heath Ledger
Brandon Lee

and they all died young.... are there any links to charisma/dying young? Charisma in general is found where?

Thanks!

[tsquare]

Hmm.....Rivers chart I haven't seen for a while....but I thought it may have something to do with his mars and sun placements by house.....I believe mars was near the MH in leo, and the Sun was in 1st degre of virgo in the 11thH. I think having the sun in the first degree of virgo is what made him such the health freak.....I'm not sure the reason for the drugs.
I have thought in the past that his withdrawl from the teenybopper image was because of his venus in libra 12H.....I believe he had jupiter there as well......but it may have been closer the the asc. or even conj asc. in scorpio......I havent seen this chart in a while so I may be a liar....there was something about his neptune as well.....

If enough times and charts were posted I'm sure it may not be too hard to deduce something, but since each actor has their own, "thing" it may be hard to find anything too specific or similar between charts.
I have heard generational planets, like the outers, have a role to in stardom....not entierly sure in which aspects.

I was just looking at Johnny Deeps Chart a minute ago then stumbled on this thread, If you want it here's his data.....he has an interesting chart.....
Mars conj. Uranus in the 1stH square mercury conj. venus in the 10thH......
He has a Leo asc with the sun in the 11thH in gemini.......Jupiter in the 9th in aries which I believe trines his leo asc, has always made me wonder if that gave him some luck in travel, and being on the road. He has neptune in the 4thH....weird home life......moved arround alot.....started drugs early on....I believe neptune is in scorpio, amazing imagination......the 4thH seems to be where we form our belief system as well..........
Another thing bout Depp...Gemini suns make great actors and communicators....and in the 11thH of Friends, Goals, Creativity and such.....it gives him space to create.....the rulling planet of Gemini is mercury...mercury is in the 10thH conj venus......it's those squares to the first that I believe gives him such originality along with the sun placement.....he's gonna do what he's gonna do.
I believe saturn in the 7thH aquarius makes him a bit of an outsider, but he achieves his goals....then the leo asc.....projection....drama.....

Johnny Depp
June 9, 1963
8:44 AM
Owensboro, Kentucky

A while ago saturn caught my eye in charts of actors....I can think of three that had saturn in the 7thH,
Johney Deep,
River Phoenix,
Tom Cruise,
Not sure what difference that would make.......just something that caught my eye.

Venus often plays a role for actors and actresses as well....

Angelina Jolie has it conj. her ASC. and I believe Dean May have as well.........not sure about Dean, it may have been just an libra asc, or something I spotted....I havn't seen these charts for a while...


EDIT: I just realize I didn't answer your question, but I have been thinking it may be a colection of the elemenets that makes a big deal in longivity.
Deep is still arround and he has quite a bit of the earth element in his chart.......
Mabie it has something to do with a balance of elements....not sure.....someone with alot of water may be really sensitive...... But River's Venus in the 12thH always caught my eye......and the scorpio asc......he has some interesting aspects to his ASC but I cant remember just what they are.

[Indigojade1]

That is interesting... thanks so much for the in depth reply!

[barbh]

Charisma can usually be seen by 8th house planets, the more you have in there, the more charisma you seem to have. Sean Connery is a good case in point. He has a packed 8th, and people have commented that his charisma is completely palpable and almost bowls one over when you meet him in person. Bill Clinton is another one. Apparently his is almost overwhelming in person. I don't have his chart, but I would expect an 8th house planet to be there somewhere.
bh

[Indigojade1]

That's funny because those two make my skin literally crawl.... do you think it's possible that their charisma is shown to certain people who's charts aspect theres and others... it could have the opposite effect?

[barbh]

I actually don't care much for Sean Connery either, but I think the 8th house is an in-person kind of charisma. Bill Clinton's does carry over well, but apparently in person it's just amazing. He was here in my town for a private dinner hosted by a VIP local, and one of the attendees was one of my clients. He said he couldn't believe how strong this man's charisma was. Absolutely palpable. It's all quite fascinating actually.
As far as charisma on screen goes, there has to be a strong Neptune function going on. People see the Neptune person as ethereal and glamorous and the stuff made of fantasies. Think of Princess Diana. She had Neptune hitting her Sun, Mercury and Jupiter and paralleled her moon, and she had unbelievable charisma. She wooed the world! Neptune is also the planet of deception and addiction, so no wonder all these successful young actors with strong Neptunes have such a challenge with drugs. The light and dark side of Neptune methinks.

[Moulin]

hmmm.... well without tooting my own horn, l am renowned for my charisma and l only have neptune in scorpio in 8th

I am not an actress however people do get pretty bowled over by my company, for some bizarre reason. I do have a packed, i mean PACKED 1st house in Aries though...

apart from that, l have no idea

[barbh]

Someone with Neptune in the 8th would definitely emit a sexy sort of glamour. Perhaps people project their sexual fantasies on to you. Neptune in the 8th could certainly describe that.
Lets see....Tom Cruise has mars on the cusp of his 8th....who else can i think of that's super sexy, Elvis had pluto in the 8th...the ultimate super sexy charismatic placement. Yep, your Neptune there definitely packs heat!

[Moulin]

WOW no wonder then... and my ascendant is Pisces :P so l guess it probably is pretty visible in me lol

Thanks barbh for explaining that!!

Originally Posted by barbh

Someone with Neptune in the 8th would definitely emit a sexy sort of glamour. Perhaps people project their sexual fantasies on to you. Neptune in the 8th could certainly describe that.
Lets see....Tom Cruise has mars on the cusp of his 8th....who else can i think of that's super sexy, Elvis had pluto in the 8th...the ultimate super sexy charismatic placement. Yep, your Neptune there definitely packs heat!

[LostVegas]

Isn't Charisma linked to Charm? And charm, in turn, can be hypnotizing. Bill Clinton is charm incarnate: ever known someone with Moon in Tauraus who wasn't charming? (That's Obama's charasmatic/charming moon as well) And then add those three other Venusian Charm components to Bill Clinton: Asc/Venus/Mars in charming Libra. And why do voters hunt high and low for a candidate with charisma/charm? It's as if it's a necessary ingredient for being President, the ability to charm/hypnotize. There's been many a President that has done wonders for our country, completely lacking in charisma/charm. But the voters keep screaming: We want charisma! We want to be hypnotized! And Obama is doing a great job of it and poor Hillary, no charm, charisma whatsoever. Our current President also has that charm element/Moon in Libra. Or is it really the Leo that produces the charisma in combination of. Just look at the oodles of Leo (the King/President)placements in the majority of those running for President: Huckabee, Paul, Mccain, Guiliani, Hillary, Dodd, Richardson, Sam Brownback and then there's our current President as well. And you know Leo: They love the spotlight/microphone whether it be for 3, 300, 3000, 300000 or 300 million people. And if all else fails, they'll turn into televangelists as long as there is a camera, microphone, spotlight and an audience.

[Indigojade1]

I have Scorpio Ruling Pluto in the eighth house. Could this be the reason I really like darker, gothic type things??? Since Scorpio in Pluto in the eighth is basically pure death/sex... or am I being too general?
I also have Saturn in the eighth (NO clue what that means)
My Neptune is in Sag in tenth hahaha whatever that means..... ( a fiery/flitty career charisma? ) LOL:34:

[sinclaire]

neptune in the 10th house - and in sagitarius - that could mean your career is artistic, you need to do something that you care about ,

neptune in the 10th house - if well aspected is a good indication of fame, and charisma!

[sinclaire]

and saturn in the 8th house. that's the house of death, resources, and rebirth, saturn is a serious planet, it adds maturity to the individual in terms of handling others money (you're good with $$), could also mean that you wonder about life and death, have a philosophical streak.

8th house does also have to do with sex, so saturn there could mean you're serious about intimate relationships, like traditions?

[redwolf481]

not to toot my horn either...my strongest planets in my chart are venus and pluto..I am a libra rising with venus in taurus as my ruler conjunct moon in taurus. venus in taurus is at the end of the 7th house, so interpreted in the 8th (so accidental dignity and in 8th house..) moon is in 8th house.....(so is pallas and north node) opposite pluto in scorpio in the first house....I a a gemini sun with mercury in cancer as my ruler exactly trine pluto, and excatly opposite neptune(in the third house) and conjunct mars in cancer by 1 degree also opposite neptune(charisma related) and trine pluto by 1 degree........jupiter is in aquarius square venus and the moon and trine my sun and ascendant......its very easy for me to be in the right place at the right time and to make an impression on someone..I can make oppertunities happen very easily but I have trouble disciplining myself, being in the moment and organizing myself.....my dad has this problem as well and has a stellium in the 8th house.....he knows everyone in hollywood and some of his best friends are stars....hes a muscian and numerlogist to the stars he even has a article available online about him in usa today....his best bud is dennis haysbert from 24...but thats just it hes had numerous oppertunities to make it but can't organize himself...luckily I have rexognized this young and am working on it

Quinn Richmond Johnson
6/14/1985
canoga park, california
2:10 pm

[Agriias]

Charisma is really hard to define. Alot of people have varying opinions of charisma. I'd imagine that a connection to the 8th house has less to do with actual charisma as a personal quality and more to do with sex appeal. We're all hard wired for mating and when someone has a strong sexual energy its hard to ignore. So that is why 8th house planets and pluto may seem to be doing it. Also to consider with pluto is depending on the placement of it, it just represents power and dont confuse someone who people gather around because they are powerful or hold some important position or resource as actual charisma. Power tends to give the illusion that people like someone more than they do, it also tends to make people like someone who would just be another person otherwise. Humans are hierarchical. In the case of charisma, we are looking at people who are genuinely liked and admired.

In psychology, attemps have been made to define charisma and there just isnt a whole lot of agreement. You also cant really be charismatic without being a good talker. People who are charismatic touch people emotions. This doesnt neccesarily mean in a bleeding heart or inspiration way, though it can be used that way. They just are good at hitting on people emotions in positive ways. Making people feel good, however, that may be. Charisma is the opposite of boring. If someone doesnt speak, they cant be truly charismatic though they might be fascinating from a mysterious angle or to watch.

People who are characterized with charisma come in all shapes and sizes. Often times they arent even good-looking but they have a way of winning people over and making them like them. Thus, even though being sexually attractive,beautiful, or having addition talent is really supplemental and not neccesary.

Thus, I propose that you should look for strong positive aspects to a persons mercury. Look for conjunctions, trines, parrelels, and contra-parrelels(except saturns for CP's, thats not good.) within 1-2degrees max. And since charisma is such a rare quality, I would look for aspect synchronization(3 or more aspects all connected by a common denominator or part of a configuration)

mercury-sun= confident, positive, strong voice, optimistic.
Mercury-venus=charming speaking, pleasant voice,
mercury-moon=emotional charge to speaking, emotional communications
mercury-jupiter=likes to talk alot, confident speaker, funny, philosophical, interesting, intellectual, optimistic.
mercury-saturn(if aspect is positive) focused speaker/thinker, practical, prudent, mature(useful for politicans or people who also need to be serious)
mercury-uranus=creative,spontaneous,intuitive, coherent and ordered speaker. witty.
mercury-neptune=imaginative, inspiration, yourhful voice, compasionate, emphatic.
mercury-pluto-powerful speaker, to the point, keen insight, (more for politicans, business people, and those who are also valued for their usefulness primarily when charisma is just icing on the cake.

And Chiron, magi astro argues that chiron represents charisma overall. I'm not sure if I totally agree with that, but look for positive aspects to that.


These are just my general interps, but prob, moon/venus/jup aspects to merc are essential and sun/jupiter/neptune/uranus as icing on the cake. saturn/pluto/mars are more for when serious situations as opposed to general interpersonal or social scene charisma.

[23]

Well not to toot my horn, I have neptune in 8th (but in sag), and unaspected venus (probably adds nothing!), moon in libra (highly beguiling I hear) and AC trine Neptune and would say that I am not charismatic but can turn on the charm occasionally when it decides to get up.

But I think charisma is in terms of defining it, when people are desperate to follow you and you are able to lead someone, like the pied piper is to mice. So charisma is associated with leo and with pluto IMHO. You'd have to think something like pluto on the AC would be pretty devastating. Charm on the other hand is the ability to cajole someone into liking you, thats an Aqu/Lib thing definitely or Sun-Venus conj (maybe even trine).

[aquarius7000]

Originally Posted by Indigojade1

..Charisma in general is found where?..

In my opinion, Pluto sure plays a major role when it comes to 'charisma'. A charismatic person does not have to necessarily be creative (with a strong Nep), or famous (with aid of Jup or Sun in 10), or even a striking beauty (with a strong Venus around the Sun or Asc, or aspecting either of them)
A 'charismatic' person would generally have his Pluto aspecting his Asc direct, or the planets in H1/ directly around the ASC, and this placement/ aspects of Pluto would tend to lend him that irresistable magentism, which sort of puts others in awe of him (in the positive sense) without him having to do or say anything to attract that kind of attention. No doubt though that Sun or Venus in H1, or aspecting it, could certainly add that extra bit of: either the sunny personality that shines through (Sun), or that touch of beauty (Venus). A combination of Pluto & Venus in H1, for example, or through aspects tangenting H1/ Asc is likely to give the native magnetic beauty to make heads turn. Sun + Pluto, on the other hand, would give that charisma of a powerful personality (hard aspects could end up giving the kind of charisma that evokes awe = fear, so making this kind of a charismatic personality 'overwhelming' in the negative sense)
Also, Leo's through their Sun (or H5 Stellium) might have that extra bit of luck to appear charismatic (like outshine the others more easily). I also think that Pluto (or Sco/H8 stellium) would do the same for Scorpions and lend that magnetic mystery to them. The combination of Pluto and Sun thus would make a 'deadly' charismatic personality.

I had a look at the charts of, in my opinion, 4 very charismatic people as below. (I chose to exemplify my opinion above through 4 famous personalities, simply because they are known to all of us)

Bill Clinton: Pluto and Sun in Leo (H11); Pluto sextiles Venus in H1; Sun sextiles Jup in H1
Dalai Lama: Pluto and Sun directly in H1
Robert Redford: Pluto of 5 (-Leo's domicile) trines ASC; Leo Sun
Demi Moore: has a powerful Scorpio+H8 stellium: Sun, Venus, Nep, Merc all in Sco/8, plus Pluto in sextile to the Sun, Nep, Venus; Pisces ASC so Soc-Nep (of 8) is on the cusp of H1, and in sextile to Pluto.

Charismatically from aquarius7000

[redwolf481]

your opnion matches my chart....and I definatly stand out even when I don't want to......libra rising instead of venus in the first though. with venus in taurus...pluto in scorpio in the first opposite venus in taurus (in 7th, interpreted in 8th) moon in taurus conjunct venus in taurus in 8th(and I give it the opposite aspect though its too wide) sun is trine pluto depending on how wide your orbs are(though I very much relate to this aspect and don't think I would of survived my childhood without it) astro dienst gives it to me though I know they are wider than most astrologers prefer....pluto aspects every planet except for uranus(and technichally the moon but I count it) neptune aspects many planets too and my sun


06/14/1985
2:10 pm
canoga park, ca

Originally Posted by aquarius7000

In my opinion, Pluto sure plays a major role when it comes to 'charisma'. A charismatic person does not have to necessarily be creative (with a strong Nep), or be famous (with aid of Jup or Sun in 10), or even be a striking beauty (with a strong Venus around the Sun or Asc, or aspecting either of them)
A 'charismatic' person would generally have his Pluto aspecting his Asc direct, or the planets in H1/ directly around the ASC. This placement/ aspects of Pluto lend one that irresistable magentism, which sort of puts others in awe of you (in the positive sense) without you having to do or say anything to attract that kind of attention. No doubt though that Sun or Venus in H1, or aspecting it, could certainly add that extra bit of: either the sunny personality that shines through (Sun), or that touch of beauty (Venus). A combination of Pluto & Venus in H1, for example, or through aspects tangenting H1/ Asc is likely to give the native magnetic beauty to make heads turn. Sun + Pluto, on the other hand, would give that charisma of a powerful personality (hard aspects could end up giving the kind of charisma that evokes awe = fear, so making this kind of a charismatic personality 'overwhelming' in the negative sense)
Also, Leo's through their Sun (or H5 Stellium) might have that extra bit of luck to appear charismatic (like outshine the others more easily). I also think that Pluto (or Sco/H8 stellium) would do the same for Scorpions and lend that magnetic mystery to them. The combination of Pluto and Sun thus would make a 'deadly' charismatic personality.

I had a look at the charts of, in my opinion, 3 very charismatic people as below. (I chose to exemplify my opinion above through 3 famous personalities, simply because they are known to all of us)

Bill Clinton: Pluto and Sun in Leo (H11); Pluto sextiles Venus in H1; Sun sextiles Jup in H1
Dalai Lama: Pluto and Sun directly in H1
Robert Redford: Pluto of 5 (-Leo's domicile) trines ASC; Leo Sun
Demi Moore: has a powerful Scorpio+H8 stellium: Sun, Venus, Nep, Merc all in Sco/8, plus Pluto in sextile to the Sun, Nep, Venus; Pisces ASC so Soc-Nep (of 8) is on the cusp of H1, and in sextile to Pluto.

Charismatically from aquarius7000

[aquarius7000]

Originally Posted by redwolf481

your opnion matches my chart....and I definatly stand out even when I don't want to

Yes, I can understand that you stand out thanks to a strong Pluto.
I too have a 5-time aspected strong Libran Pluto, a Leo ASC, Sun aspecting the ASC, and Venus in 7 (Libra connection). Plus my Aquarian Sun only underlines that standing-out bit
Many a time, even when I'm looking my dullest, I have people staring at me, and I have often wondered why, until I figured out for myself that the forceful Plutonic energies (with my other add-ons) just seem to ooze through me (I guess).

[redwolf481]

my dad has a stellium in scorpio and hes a libra lol my dad is an aquarius rising and my mom is a leo....funny my sun and libra rising are in aquarius decans

hey aquarius I have another post where I asked people to look at my chart and give their opinion and insight about what jumps out at them.....can I get your opinion as well

Originally Posted by aquarius7000

Yes, I can understand that you stand out thanks to a strong Pluto.
I too have a 5-time aspected strong Libran Pluto, a Leo ASC, Sun aspecting the ASC, and Venus in 7 (Libra connection). Plus my Aquarian Sun only underlines that standing-out bit
Many a time, even when I'm looking my dullest, I have people staring at me, and I have often wondered why, until I figured out for myself that the forceful Plutonic energies (with my other add-ons) just seem to ooze through me (I guess).

[Kawa]

Hi, i am quite new here, great discussion!
I think what usually is called charisma is a collective projection of that specific society. In fact if you probe into another culture you will wonder what kind of charisma is that? There you find people considered charismatic by that society but disgusting your sense of beauty or power.
Mass conditioning, the power to be rich and famous attracts the mass, and if Tom Cruise or Richard Gere or the Dalai Lama were not in that position, you would not even notice them. The fact that they are in that position doesn't mean either that they have an intrinsic charisma and that's why they reached there - many times it happens by chance, just being in the right place at the right time and the charisma starts building up.
The real charisma is very very rare, usually doesn't attract the stupid mass, and you can feel it in the presence of that person without any power in between, and i don't mean Mother Theresa either, i think charisma is not really definable.
As Indigojade1 said

those two make my skin literally crawl.

and i agree completely.

Bill Clinton's does carry over well, but apparently in person it's just amazing. He was here in my town for a private dinner hosted by a VIP local, and one of the attendees was one of my clients. He said he couldn't believe how strong this man's charisma was. Absolutely palpable. It's all quite fascinating actually.

I had the same kind of report from a friend that went to see Clinton. Just promoting the wife in the town of my friend in Texas, and he was standing in a queue for two hours - i asked him if he got hipnotized! We had a big discussion and he came back to his senses, it was amazing for me to see the power of the power overpowering!

By the way Princess Diana wooed the world but not me and Tom Cruise is not sexy according to me - so, i would like to understand if it is possible to give another name to this power of attraction.

If i look at the dictionary:
1. Theology. a divinely conferred gift or power.
2. a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.
3. the special virtue of an office, function, position, etc., that confers or is thought to confer on the person holding it an unusual ability for leadership, worthiness of veneration, or the like.

There is a bit of confusion in these definitions.

Yes LostVegas, it would be better to call it charm, the ability to hypnotize.
Exactly that's what happens:

the voters keep screaming: We want charisma! We want to be hypnotized!

that's the mass hypnosis, if people are taught continuously, conditioned continuously, they become whatsoever they are conditioned for.
When you go out of the entanglement of the mass psychology, of the mass hypnosis because you become aware that the mass conditions you, you rebel against it, go out of this mass conditioning, you become an individual, you know who you are, you don't get hypnotized anymore, neither by Pluto and nor by Neptune.

Agriias, i like your definitions!

here is me:
Mercury conjunct Gemini Sun
Mercury trine Neptune
Uranus conj Gemini AC - trine Jupiter
Sun trine Neptune
Sun sextile Pluto
Pluto trine Moon
Pluto conjunct Mars
Pluto parallel Uranus
Pluto parallel Venus
Pluto and Venus are also both OOB
does Neptune sextiles Pluto count anything? all people of my age must be having that.

A 'charismatic' person would generally have his Pluto aspecting his Asc direct, or the planets in H1/ directly around the ASC, and this placement/ aspects of Pluto would tend to lend him that irresistable magentism, which sort of puts others in awe of him (in the positive sense) without him having to do or say anything to attract that kind of attention.

Aquarius 7000, you are right! even though i would never define myself like that i know people who are in awe of me, it makes me run and hide myself in my room, they want to stay in my company but i get bored with them, more they adore me and more i run - i abhor to attract people like that, but of course i like to attract the people that i want to attract, and usually i do - but they are such a rarity.

Cheers!

[Wilmingtonian]

All this talk of well-aspected Plutos depresses me. I have Pluto in Libra in the 12th, square both Mars & Jupiter. That *****. So to heck with charisma! Who needs it?!

But it's trine Neptune in Sag, and that must count for something.

[Wilmingtonian]

Dear lord, ya'll have tough language standards here. So let me correct myself. My Pluto placement "stinks". It doesn't suck because apparently suck is a bad word.

[Kawa]

Pluto in its negative aspects is the dark side of the self: ugly, manipulative, fanatic, criminal, possessive, controlling etc etc etc but in the positive is spirituality and transformation.
To me charisma comes out of the positive side when you search for the truth and actually you reach to the innermost core of your being, a certain light starts radiating from you.
I don't know where you put the politicians if not in the first negative dark side, and the actors are just acting! you know very well that in real life they are a complete mess as everybody else.
When they act they are not themselves, they are just dressed up to be somebody else. But when they act well they are actually entering the spiritual field of meditation, what Buddha calls witnessing. Actors may go into meditation more easily than anybody else because they know how to act as someone else. The only danger is in the identification, they may get crazy and split inside, neurotic, but if they are able to remain aware of themselves and at the same time perform as somebody else they get that aura of charisma that's so attractive [just as meditation].
I don't say anything about Venus and Beauty because the feminine charisma is very difficult to define, i have nothing of that [almost] .
But i go on wondering what is that people are finding so charismatic in the shadow power of politicians? What about Hitler? I read somewhere that if you don't know his chart, and you start reading it, not knowing to whom it belongs, it is almost impossible to come out with the recognition - you may say this is an highly spiritual person - sigh :60:

[Jenna Jupiter]

What if Pluto is the strongest planet in your natal chart?