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Old 11-19-2007, 06:19 PM
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deanna deanna is offline
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The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Greetings!

My child’s chart has one major aspect – Its Saturn Oppose Moon.
The Moon is in a Stellium with Neptune and Venus.
Even though my son is only 20 months old I am trying my best to analyze Saturn oppose Moon in order to apply the best parenting skills, and to prepare for any struggles he might have as he grows.

1) Parent Representation
Saturn represents his father and the moon is me. So this can be a reflection of his parent’s relationship when my son was born. His father shows up now and then but he is not involved.

2) Depression
Also Saturn Oppose Moon represents my son’s emotional make-up. His grandma struggles with depression on his father side. I am very aware of the signs of depression.

3) Chemicals or alcohol problems
There is also concern with chemicals or alcohol when he gets older with this planetary configuration in his birth chart.
As for chemicals or alcohol there is none in the home. I do not drink or smoke. I will do my best to protect him but as he grows I am sure he will come across these things from others. I want him to avoid the pitfalls of what drink can do. From his chart he could be prone to dependency like others in the family. We will probably volunteer at a alcohol detox center, like I use to do, so he can see first hand the effects of alcohol abuse.

Also training in Spirituality is very important, as well as learning positive and reassuring self-talk when things get difficult in life. Also trusting your gut/sprit instinct and to be in tune with it because your sprit never lies.
All the tools I can try my best to help learn so he can be happy and healthy in this world.

Are there anymore issues that can accompany Saturn Oppose Moon?

I have posted my sons chart:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56396939@N00/2118979123

He is an only child from both generations and I am a 40 year old mother. What a blessing. Being the best parent is the most important thing in the world to me. Thank-you in advance for your help!


I love these statements:


The writer David Spangler, in his book, “Parents as Mystic, Mystic as Parent” says that:


"Creating a family in which a child can know safety, support, empowerment and love is one of the most profound acts of service that any human being can provide. If at times the darkness of the world seems to press in close, then healthy, happy families whatever shape or form they take, as long as the children within them are protected and enabled to grow in balanced ways are part of the bulwark that protects us."

“If you bungle raising your children, I don't think whatever else you do matters very much.” ---Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis
.


Last edited by deanna; 01-14-2008 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 11-20-2007, 03:44 AM
Yoi Yoi is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

I have Saturn square Moon in a T-square with Neptune. I don't want to seem too bleak because you are his mother, but in my personal experience and also from what I've read in books, Saturn with harsh aspects to the Moon denotes a stern, strict, cold, mother who demands a lot of her child. The mother may love the child a lot but finds it difficult to show her emotions. I've seen Saturn-Moon harsh aspects describe as some of the worser aspects in a chart - I think one poster here describes it as the "orphan's aspect" and it has had a pretty negative impact on my own life.

In my experience my mother was very hard on me and always demanding that I get top marks in school and I behave like a "lady". I always felt that I had to "earn" my mother's love and even now as an adult I feel that if I don't do well in my career and life I will "lose" my mother's love. I tend to carry this to all my relationships where I fear that I don't "deserve" other people's love. I always wonder why people like me when I haven't "earned" it, a notion I learnt from my mother and childhood.

There is a strong sense of harshness and judgement from the mother. I remember being a very young child and being harshly reprimanded every time I cried rather than comforted. Even now I feel terrible every time I find myself crying because of my early conditioning that it is bad to show your emotions. This is not to say that my mother didn't love me and she was thinking that this was the best for me, but this is how Moon-Saturn shows its love I guess. It is hard on the child.

On the positive side, this drive to earn the approval of others, especially authority figures, led me to become a high achieving. I guess I was always striving to "earn" approval and love.

On a more general view, we were extremely poor when I was a child and we spent a lot of time moving from relative's house to relative's house. Living conditions were sparse and I was constantly told to not touch anything because we were surrounded by things that were not ours. So my early childhood was mostly spent in a single room in whatever house we were living in at the time, being let out every now and then for dinner/bath with the constant reminder "not to touch anything". I also learnt the lesson to "not want anything" because we had no money. So unlike other children I never asked for any presents or gifts because I never expected to get any.

Once again from my personal experience and from what I've read in books, Saturn-Moon leads to deep serious emotions but a difficulty in expressing them, due to the early environment.

Sue Tompkins has this to say about the aspect which I very strongly identify with as someone with a Moon-Saturn-Neptune T-square:

"Sometimes the child had to take on responsibilites at too young an age, often becoming a surrogate mother, perhaps by being born the eldest child and having to look after younger siblings. Often the mother or other caretaker is overburdened and Moon-Saturn ends up playing mother to its own mother-figure. That lunar aspect of parenting which might be termed 'unconditional love' is often in short supply. The kind of love that says, "I will love you no matter what, I will be here to support you, to protect you, I will be able to absorb and cushion your anxieties, your fears, your tears, your anger, your rage.' With Moon-Saturn many of these positive features of childhood were rather thin on the ground. And basically, the individual has to learn how to feel and express these qualities from scratch.

The Moon-Saturn child generally gets the message very early on that it has to be emotionally self-sufficient. The child receives early messages that they will be loved only if they behave in a certain kind of way; responsible and unobtrusive, staying in the background, not getting under people's feet...The ramifications of this are that in adulthood, the individual finds it very difficult to react and respond in a spontaneous kind of way because there is a constant, very often barely conscious expectation of criticism. People with hard contacts, and the conjunction too, tend to express their feelings with great caution and a certain defensiveness."

"The early life may not have been that oppressive, though there is usually what Liz Greene calls a 'business before pleasure' kind of feeling about the home life and the individual's subsequent attitudes.'

"Here we have an individual who tries very hard to please. The classic Moon-Saturn type feels vulnerable and scared of being hurt and thus will behave in what the individual considers to be as socially acceptable a way as possible."

"The beauty of the Moon-Saturn person can be that they do take the emotional realm so very seriously. For this is a person who might never let you down, in practical terms anyway."

"Although I said earlier that there is often an early message of 'be independent' from the parents to the Moon-Saturn child, there is also often a counter message which says, 'Don't grow up fully because I need you, don't have a family, don't move away.'"

I have experienced all of these things myself personally. Problems with drugs etc. tends to be more the providence of Neptune.

Another person with Moon-Saturn square was Marilyn Monroe and her childhood was fairly harsh as well.

Here is an online interpretation of Moon-opposition-Saturn:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...ion-saturn.php

Quote:
It is probable that the restrictions and limitations which you encounter are mainly derived from other people or environmental pressures, and that relationship difficulties will occur.

Childhood experiences and parental or social conditioning will have greatly affected you; and your attitudes and worldview are likely to have been moulded by duty, obligation, and responsibility. You see their requirements as necessary for the socially mature individual, but, instead of gradually developing as a result of real maturation, these have been imposed on you, probably during childhood before you were able to properly integrate them. Parental pressure or environmental circumstances may have forced you to 'act grown up' before you were ready, having to conform to these demands. You may have reacted against the discipline of restraining attitudes and imposed rigid behaviour, and may have seen your parents as lacking love or understanding for you.

Life presents a vista of duty and obligation; it is viewed as a serious affair in which 'doing the right thing' becomes important, even if this means ignoring your feelings, instincts, and emotions... or so it seems to you. One result could have been a controlling of childhood feelings, exuberance, and enthusiasm, of not being allowed time for childish play and 'silliness', acting out imaginative fantasies, or refusing to conform.

By adult life, this may have consequences of moodiness, bleak depressions, and negativity. You may display emotional inflexibility, endure phases of stagnation, and have fears of people, experiences, and situations. If this occurs, it is symptomatic of unconscious emotional repression, which now influences your everyday consciousness and reality through interference. Sensing this repression, others may avoid closeness with you, as they sense that your social stiffness inhibits relationships; as your vibration is that of a loner, they may feel uncomfortable.

Negative attitudes can become restrictive and limiting; opportunities can be lost through refusing to take chances, or relationships denied through social unease or fear of emotional intimacy. If you can redirect your attitudes in a more positive and constructive direction, things will open up; making such a shift is likely to prove diffivult, yet, if achieved, will be highly rewarding.

Clarifying your life direction is important, enabling energies to be targeted at achieving specific personal aims. While the 'duty and obligation' program dominates you, there can be antagonism toward authority figures such as employers or managers, especially if they provoke your feelings or wound your sensitivity. If you chose not to become self-employed, then work related to medicine, research, social welfare, community service, law, or government may attract.

Relationships can prove problematic. You find difficulty letting down your emotional drawbridge to others, and struggle to express feelings. Sometimes embryonic relationships are destroyed by your allowing previous relationship experiences to interfere, by prejudging people according to past disillusionments. Emotions are protected; and this can prevent intimacy from developing. Older partners may attract, as may those who display a maturity which you believe you lack.

Be careful of becoming dependent on others. It may be inevitable that you fall in love with someone who displays affection but not love for you. This leaves you emotionally vulnerable; and powerful but painful feelings are encountered. Such experiences could prove uncomfortable and traumatic, yet releasing emotions is the healthiest action. If a relationship develops, then you may become less defensive, and your hidden potential may unfold with a loving partner.

Children may help to open you, providing a relationship into which you can pour love, helping you to feel at ease with displaying feelings in a less threatening context. You may find that family obligations create limitations, due to financial constraints and parenting responsibilities. A balanced approach to fulfilling responsibilities in a more relaxed, emotionally responsive manner is required; and much depends on transforming attitudes and feelings. If this is achieved, limitations will progressively dissolve as emotional stress is released, and a new feeling of liberation grows. With emotional freedom comes the dismantling of those inner barriers which have prohibited creativity and imagination; and taking these steps may reveal previously unexplored and unrecognized talents and abilities.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/m...rnaspects.html

Quote:
Moon square or opposition Saturn
When Moon is in hard aspect to Saturn in the natal chart, natives need to learn to trust others more. Fear keeps them from fully enjoying personal relationships, and fear is behind the occasional rigidity that they express. When they let themselves receive nurture or care from others, an inner voice cautions them that it might not be sincere, long-lasting, or enough! There can be some reluctance about becoming a parent, but once taken on, these people don't take their responsibility lightly.

Emotional reticence is the main theme of these aspects. Many people with this aspect had a lot of conditions placed on the love they received in early childhood. They tend to expect the same later in life. With hard Saturn aspects, individuals are often plagued with doubts, not only about the self but about what to expect from life itself. The problem is that expecting difficulties or negative situations creates an aura around them that perpetuates the problem. They must work hard at positive thinking and expecting more from life. Ironically, many people with hard Saturn aspects can be quite sarcastic, skeptical, and rigid in manner. This is essentially a defense mechanism designed to protect themselves from harshness in the world.

It is extremely likely that they feel neglected because they perceive it in the first place, and later expect it, to be the case. There's a vicious circle going on here that can only be broken when the patterns created by negative conditioning are broken. Adjusting one's perceptions and expectations is the key to breaking out of these negative patterns. Otherwise, natives of hard Moon-Saturn aspects will live life feeling left out--attracting circumstances that perpetuate a feeling of deep unhappiness and dissatisfaction.

Alternate, short interpretation: Moon square Saturn and Moon opposition Saturn: You often feel that you must do something or be something other than what you are in order to receive approval and acceptance from others. You are very sensitive to criticism and easily feel left out or neglected, and though you may appear cool or distant, you actually care very much about being included. Because you are so sensitive, it may seem easier for you to withdraw into a shell rather than risk the emotional bumps and bruises that can occur when you let others really know you in an intimate, personal way. Your reserve and caution make establishing a close emotional rapport with others difficult for you, and you become very attached to the few people you consider "real friends". You can gain inner security and strength through periods of solitude if you view them as times to nourish yourself and develop your own interests, rather than as times of loneliness.

Last edited by Yoi; 11-20-2007 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 11-20-2007, 05:19 AM
Yoi Yoi is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

I just noticed that my brother has Moon opposing Saturn. From what I can observe he has responded to the harsh strictures of Moon-Saturn by spending his whole life openly rebelling against our mother and her concept of "duty". Of course his Sun square Uranus might have a role in that response...He is definitely emotionally guarded and defensive as you'd expect from Moon-Saturn.

More on Moon-Saturn from Liz Greene:

"There is the suggestion with Moon Saturn contacts, including the "soft" aspects that the experiences of childhood have been structured and defined along Saturnian lines and that there has been a lot of emphasis on duty and on the appropriate forms of behaviour. Sometimes Moon-Saturn contacts are concurrent with a childhood which is difficult because of financial reasons; sometimes there is an abundance of material comfort but little warmth or spontanaeity of emotional expression. The mother is frequently undemonstrative or a disappointment in some way. Many Moon-Saturn people carry a well-defined stamp of emotional closefistedness which infers a long past of learning to control the feelings - beginning at an age where feelings, freely expressed, are the only outlet a child possesses for communication. There is often a brooding loneliness about this contact, and even with the apparent stability and steadfastness which are typical of the easier aspects, there is an aloofness and isolation which is not easily broken. There is frequently a cool and apparently efficient exterior presented although the efficiency is questionable if the aspects are close because there is often compulsive defensiveness which interferes with the practical instincts. Moon-Saturn contacts often concur with the sort of personality which likes to present itself as practical, but this is usually a substitution of values of the kind which Saturn is so good at; the practicality is usually developed because the individual cannot express himself in any other way. Often a deep loneliness and needfulness is present with Moon-Saturn, particularly for the security of emotional bonds which only a family with its sense of blood relatioships and continuity can provide. There is a need for roots, for tradition, and for the physical structure of a family unit. Usually this emphasis on the structure carries an inherent disappointment with it for the family, when the Moon is closely aspected to Saturn, can often offer nothing except structure.

The early home life is of primary importance in the shaping of the Moon-Saturn personality characteristics. Both of these planets are related to the vertical axis of the chart with its associations of parental influence, and both planets are also connected with aspects of the unconscious and of behaviour patterns which are built up over past experience. Both parents are represented by this contact and not in the kindest of fashions. The suggestion of a "business before pleasure" attitude is strong. Sometimes there is an atmosphere of a strict morality, linked with religious viewpoints; this contact is common among people who have been subjected to the more dogmatic religious systems with their emphasis on a harsh and duty conscious deity. The parents, often through no fault of their own, are a burden or a disappointment to the child.

What this kind of pattern does psychologically varies depending upon whether the individual is a man or a woman; it also varies because the bias of the rest of the chart may suggest the usual wide spectrum of apparent expressions of Saturn, ranging from the close and withdrawn emotional temperament one might expect, to the apparently effusive and sentimental temperament which Saturn so easily demonstrates as compensation. But whatever his external manifestation, Saturn always inclines towards the development of strength through isolation, and the individual with Moon-Saturn is usually cut off from both his literal roots and his psychic roots and must develop his own sense of continuity and emotional security. He cannot retreat to the pleasant memories of childhood because they are frequently unpleasant, and he also cannot depend upon others emotionally to provide a nest in which he can bury himself so that he does not have to grow. When he relies on his instincts, they usually let him down, and he often finds at some point in his life that he must burn his bridges behind him if he is to develop into a mature human being. The structure of his family and the rules of good behaviour which served him in the past as a reason for being are no longer satisfactory, and the individual is given an opportunity to develop the conscious decision-making aspect of his nature more fully, symbolised by the Sun, because the line of least resistance is blocked. It might be said that when Moon-Saturn contacts are present on the birth chart, it is time for the individual to begin to become a conscious, thinking entity; the total structure of his psyche will usually not permit him to fall back on his feeling nature for his direction or his behaviour."

Anyway, as someone with Moon-Saturn the only positive thing I can say about the aspect is that it can give the native an enormous drive to succeed. The native craves emotional security because they were unable to obtain it in the past and they try to obtain it the only way they know how. Also they are used to having to "earn" their mother's approval and love. Hence by succeeding they (ok I) feel that they will have "earned" the respect of others. To me the idea of unconditional love is something I find strange. I find I can give it to others but I can't find it easy to accept because throughout my childhood I was always expected to earn it.

The two worse parts of Moon-Saturn in my personal experience is not even the cold or emotional distance, or the fact that I can't remember any time in my life my mother hugged me or kissed me just because and not because I won an award at school or did something else spectacular. The worse part is the *guilt*. All my life, as far as I can remember, everything has revolved around duty, responsibility and work. If I do something which doesn't involve duty, responsibility and work I feel guilty. The second part is I constantly fear criticism. This could be due to the fact that my mother has always criticised me for every little thing I do wrong (in her eyes). Unfortunately this is now brought into all of my relationships. I always feel that I am walking on eggshells, that it is only a matter of time until the other person finds some fault with me and walks away in disgust. I honestly don't feel that I deserve to be loved. I think this feeling is the source of the infamous emotional detachment and guardedness of the Moon-Saturn native. We feel emotions very deeply. We take emotions very seriously, and we can love other people, but we don't feel we deserve to be loved. The pain is such that it is easier to shut yourself off from other people. Unless of course we do something spectacular, which leads back to the positive aspect I mentioned earlier which is that this yearning to "prove" they are worthy of love and respect can lead them to succeed. In summary, I think the worse part of Moon-Saturn is it transforms life and living from an enjoyment and a wonder to a burden where the only things are duty, responsibility and "proving" yourself worthy of a mother's love. It is a tremendous burden and it makes all of life gray and dismal. To be honest once when I thought I failed a test (I got a B) I wanted to kill myself because I was scared of what my mother would think. I even wrote a suicide note and got sleeping pills because I felt that since I failed a test I was unworthy to live. I wonder if this was how Marilyn Monroe used to think - she had the same Moon-Saturn-Neptune T-square as me and I wonder if this was the source of a lot of her problems.

Sorry for the outpouring. I'm crying a bit here. I always hated crying because I always got harshly punished for doing so when I was young. Unfortunately I have too many soft aspects in my chart and I tend to not have much control over it. I guess this is just something that's really been disturbing me all my life. Reading all the articles on Moon-Saturn just brings back so many bad memories and a lot of childhood pain.

Last edited by Yoi; 11-20-2007 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:48 PM
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deanna deanna is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

My heart goes out to you and I cried as well reading your post on your childhood. I have:

T-Square from Moo: 23Leo48'10" to Sun: 25Tau30'03" and Nep:22Sco55'01"

T-Square from Moo: 23Leo48'10" to Mer: 2Gem02'23" and Nep: 22Sco55'01"

T-Square from Ven: 7Can41'50" to Mar: 15Lib33'24" and Sat: 8Ari44'48


I grew up fast to take care of a crazy household. I wasn’t allowed a childhood and took on a lot of grown up responsibility. My father was horrible and my mother left us due to prescription drug dependency. When I was 13 I was shipped to group homes and foster homes.

I remember when I first bought my son a box of chalk. I cried when I opened the box and looked at the colors. How I would have loved to have chalk when I was little because I loved to draw. How could my parents not want to see their children happy? I have so much joy doing things for my son. How could my parents not want or feel that same joy for their kids?

It’s bitter sweet but in the same stance I get to get some of my childhood back when I get to play with my son. He comes first before anything and affection is continuous with me and others. You could not ask for a child that is more loved and admired. Being a loving and good parent is the most important thing in the world to me. My worst nightmare would be to fail at raising my son or to cause any damage.

I can feel that my son (Neptune is strong with both of us) takes on others feelings or feels responsible when they are down. At 20 months I have seen him hug his father as if he could “fix” his fathers bad feelings. I know my little Cancer rising is an emotional sponge and he absorbs a lot around him. His childhood is his foundation for his life. His childhood and homelife is everything. I will ensure that his home will always be his sanctuary. I left my job in the spring and I have been home with him because I realize how important it was for me to be with him this summer when he is little. I am going back to work next month.

I hope to help him learn balance out his emotions and that he cannot always be responsible for other people’s feelings. I hope to help him to balance out his “emotional radar” so he does not drain himself with unhealthy people or situations. An over-sensitivity can lead to drug/alcohol abuse because sometimes a person just wants to “numb out” because they absorb so much it can overwhelming at times. I hope his Aries sun will also help balance things out.

It scares the hell out of me to think that his relationship with me would be so difficult with this aspect in his birth chart.

With this aspect falling under the “mother” relationship because of the moon shouldn’t the other aspects to the moon and Saturn be analyzed as well? Also the houses with the opposition –Saturn in Leo/2nd house oppose Moon Aqu/8th house.

Other Saturn and Moon aspects in his birth chart:

Saturn Leo/2nd house--Trines Sun Aries/10th house
Moon Aqu/8th house--Square Jupiter Scorpio/5th house
Moon Aqu/8th house --Conj Chiron Aqu/8th house

Stellium 8th house Moon: 13Aqu16'25" and Venus: 18Aqu24'44" and Neptune: 18Aqu56'23"

There has to be some positive….

Last edited by deanna; 11-20-2007 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:36 PM
Yoi Yoi is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

deanna, I think in my case things are made worse by the fact that I have a Moon-Saturn-Neptune T-square with Moon and Neptune in the 1st and 7th houses (angular) houses. Marilyn Monroe had something similar and like me she suffered a lot. I like the parallel in that she committed suicide using sleeping pills and I nearly committed suicide using sleeping pills. I also have Pluto trine Moon - this may be an easy aspect that Pluto still has a certain influence. There is an enormous stress on my Moon and the only supporting thing is Pluto. Pluto gives enormous strength yes, but it is by no means soft and comforting.

In your son's case the Moon has the support of Jupiter. Even in a square Jupiter brings benefits. At the very least it will bring optimism. The Moon also has the support of Venus. The influences of Venus and Jupiter on the Moon indicate a very nuturing mother (though the square with Jupiter means you might be a bit "over-the-top" . In fact in your son's case the Saturn influence may not be so bad because otherwise his Moon will be so soft (Neptune, Venus and Jupiter!) so as to be completely mushy. So in your son's case Saturn may actually help by adding some spine. So in your case you your relationship with the son will have a lot more softer than mine with mine.

I'm sorry for alarming you deanna. I got carried away with describing my own problems. I really should have made the disclaimer that it depends a lot on other aspects to the Moon as well. I don't think you will have nearly have the same trouble as I did because your son's Moon not only has the hard Saturn aspect but aspects from *both* beneficts as well. In my case, my Moon had only hard aspects to not so nice planets and the only "support" was from dark Pluto. Also my Moon was in the 1st house and was the focus of a funnel chart which means all the energies of the chart were focused on the Moon.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:37 PM
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

No worries - I really appreciate you sharing and what you have to give will help me so much in discovering who my son is. (and I do agree with you saying that I am a little over the top-my friends are afraid that I will follow him to his prom and I will insist on being his date)

You have given me great information and you have all my admiration for sharing so much.

Thank-you so very very much. - De and baby Raiden



Alan Cohen: It takes a lot of courage to release the familiar and seemingly secure, to embrace the new. But there is no real security in what is no longer meaningful. There is more security in the adventurous and exciting, for in movement there is life, and in change there is power.

Last edited by deanna; 11-20-2007 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:54 AM
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Hi

I have saturn conjunct moon (2deg) and my eldest son has saturn opposing moon (2deg). My own father has saturn/moon square and he never hugges me either.

I have gone to the other extreme with my kids. I always jump into bed with them (my 2 elder ones share a double bed) at night and cuddle them til they fall asleep. At the weekends we all snuggle up in my bed and watch a DVD

I always communicate with my kids and make sure they are happy and constantly tell them how amazing they are, and notice their emerging talents.

I give them freedom and let them express themselves... get angry, cry. In fact l tell them that it's good to cry... and will make them better men LOL

I guess l want the opposite to my own childhood, like we all do.

Good luck. Everything will be fine; let there be love!
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Old 11-21-2007, 02:56 AM
Yoi Yoi is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Thanks deanna! I hope all goes well with you and your son!
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:17 AM
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

I don't think it is useful to beat about the bush on describing some aspects. Some aspects are just plainly a chore.

Any contact between Moon and Saturn is unfortunate for the domestic life, and the square and opposition denote material hardhip in both early and late life. It is nearly always an indication of poverty as a child, or one may be surrounded by opulence and wealth but be prevented from enjoying it for some reason.

In character it develops a veneer of hardness and carelessness of others although it is brittle emotionally and immensely sensitive to criticism, and it suffers in secret. It is both inwardly and outwardly critical of itself and the world, continually discontented. It is a rather bleak aspect. In later life it becomes either cynical and suspicious or maudlin and sentimental, depending on other aspects and sign placement, but it usually alienates itself from others.

As a mother there is probably nothing much you can do to assuage the emotional turmoil your child will have to experience, other than to accept and understand and to always uplift and encourage, but then let it be. That is the best you can do. You can't live another person's life, which is one reason good advice is rarely taken.

But then life is experience isn't it, bad and good. Some of the most interesting and delightful people I have met in the world have had horrible experiences in life, and have risen above them, at least in a psychological and spiritual sense.
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:51 PM
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Wayne,

You have wonderful insight and I fully agree that some hard aspects cannot be glossed over.

When Raiden was born he picked the time and place to be here.
He also picked the parents and his father has the same houses opposing each other. His father has saturn/Pieces in the 8th oppose Uranus/Pluto in Virgo in the 2nd.

As you said as parent I must realized that I don't have control of the inner struggles that my son may have that make up who he is. I can only offer my full support, unconditional love and gudiance.

This goes for all our loved ones that we want to protect and care for.

The hopes is to have difficut aspects turned into what motivates and not what keeps a person down.

Your realism is greatly appreciated!
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Last edited by deanna; 12-22-2007 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:54 AM
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Just fill your son's life with unconditional love and acceptence. Make sure he's told he's loved and that he doesn't have to earned that love. Validate him as a person from the start. Teach him to be proud of his talents and strengths. Make sure his fears, pain and disappointments are genuinely acknowledged and greeted with compassion, and that he knows he doesn't have face his struggles he will inevitably encounter in life on his own.

If he didn't have this challenging aspect in his chart, he'd have something else equally challenging. Life's like that. We all have our challlenges. The most important thing you can do for your son would be to teach him he's loved, always and no matter what. In the context of love, your son will be able to overcome any obstacle (especially with a 10th house Aries Sun!).
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:35 PM
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deanna deanna is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Thank-you for your beautiful words!

See my Avatar photo of the determined eyes of a 10th house Aries little boy!!

-De
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Old 01-13-2008, 05:05 PM
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The_Sundance_Kid The_Sundance_Kid is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Hi Deanna,

I have a 1st house Sagittarian Saturn opposite a 7th house Gemini Moon. Before I give my observations I'd like to point out that I have my Jupiter in the 4th house in Pisces and it is trine alot of my Personal planets in Scorpio on my Asc. I think this has modified alot of the aspect in a positive way.

So I think highlighting and emphasising the strengths of Jupiter in your son's chart, whilst being philosophical and teaching him to control the excesses of it will greaty moderate and help any negative influence. Jupiter is exalted in Cancer and so has a great natural relationship with the Moon. It is also the opposite of Saturn in many respects so can counter it. This is why I think Jupiter is the best solution to the typical Saturn- Moon opposition.

Here is how the Saturn- Moon works in my life so far:

Yoi said that she felt that love was not conditional. I too felt this but quickly learnt that it was not the love that was unconditional but the respect and friendship. My mother loved me so much she had very high standards for how she wanted me to behave- we have many alcoholics in the family and so her response was to expect me not to drink. She also wanted me to perform well at school. Her insistence did make me think that if I ever breached these expectations she would stop loving me. But I learnt quite quickly that she would never stop loving me but she would be disappointed and she would be angry. My mother is very intrusive in my relationships and my choice of partner is of particular concern. I know that if I picked someone she didn't like, (and she has very high standards) she would stop speaking to me until I dropped them. This is restricting, but I never doubt her love and so it is no longer a confidence issue. I think the Jupiter also added a philosophical dimension in that my mother explained all her fears to me so I could understand her and realise that her love was full of fear. It is the fear that is mistaken for coldness. I think this has helped and I too have grown up with the same values as her, so there is now little disharmony.

With respect to showing emotion, I was the youngest of 5 and so my mother wasn't always available. She did show me some love, there were hugs and kisses, but I was not expected to cry or show my emotion. Yoi's experiences seem to have hurt her in this respect but I think that once again Jupiter saved me. If I did ever cry I did feel bad as I knew I wasn't supposed to. My mother was neither cold but nor did she hug me and give me unconditional love. She would smile and sometimes hug me and would try to get me to realise why there was no reason in crying, or why the situation wasn't that bad, or if it was bad what we would do about it, or why it ended up being this way, or what we could learn from it. Either way she was so flippant about the things I cared about in childhood that I think it made me learn not to take myself so seriously and I learnt to consider another's viewpoint. My mom was very explicit that from her viewpoint some of the things I was crying about were not worth crying about.

With regard to finance, I too was brought up in a relatively poor background, my parents went bankrupt when I was 4. This meant that they were frequently not there for me as they were working. On one hand this left me isolated but I had 4 older siblings to look after me. I knew I could not ask for gifts and I felt the responsibility of the entire family having to watch what we spent money on. My parents tried to hide our poverty from me but I picked up on it, although it never really left me that troubled. While I felt that I had to live up to my parent's educational and moral expectations, given that they were flippant on everything else I had alot of creative freedom- astrology is probably one example of something I got into at a very young age (15.) It is still something my parents don't even know/ care about even though I've told them. My parents don't really visit me at university, nor do I ever really tell them anything about my hobbies and interests here, but my mom will always make me phone her once a week to tell her I'm ok and she tells me she loves me.

In terms of mothering my own mother, another theme brought up in other posts, I did not really have to do this, but there definitely days when it was best not to approach my her if I knew something at work or one of my aunts had annoyed her. When I was in my late teens however I think my mother did go through a midlife crisis of feeling useless and unloved and not needed, as me or my siblings were so used to not spending time with her that once she finally started working less hours she was all alone. She tried to spend 'quality time' with us but it was awkward for us and for her. In the end we laughed it off and learnt that we didn't have much in common and weren't really the typical family, but it was ok. I began being very fussy about the condition of the food she cooked, more as a way to revive her interest in cooking and so she could feel needed, so in a way I took the initiative and food is one thing me and my mother have in common. When I phone her I still sometimes ask for cooking tips.

While my parents worked, they were never really a source of fun for me between the ages of 6 to 16. But in a way this was not necessarily bad. I think the Jupiter imparted my parent's principles into my life early on and as a result I enjoyed independance and freedom at a young age. In some ways I did not enjoy the typical childhood as I was far more mature than my friends, but I don't think this had a negative impact at all. It helped me to study, it helped me to put things into perspective, it helped me to understand my parents and why they did what they did. And more importantly it meant I didn't mind any of the limitations my childhood had. I was genuinely happy.

Maybe as I've gotten older I'll have more problems with relationships (mainly not finding anyone I really like) but my relationship with my parents now that I've reached adulthood has certainly improved. I view duty philosophically, and do not really rebel against it.

All in all I think the Saturn Moon opposition does not have to be negative. A healthy dose of Jupiter and honesty between mother and son should help. A little bit of cynicism and realism I think gives a child a better sense of humour as well as ambition, and hopefully, if they can put things into perspective, compassion.

Oh one more thing I would add, seeing as I had many siblings but I don't think that is the case here. Don't be so worried, as then Saturn- Moon becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And have some fun! Having genuine fun is the best way for a child to realise his mother loves him.

One further thing I remember about your sons configuration was the 2nd house. My 1st house Saturn gave me confidence issues, the 2nd house could make the son feel worthless or unable to value things. I think it would be good to make your son appreciate things more, for without appreciation life seems grey and it leads to escapism and maybe that is where the alcohol association with this aspect is.

I hope that helps, and sorry this post is so long, and sorry if it makes my mother or my family sound odd, I hope it all works out well!
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Old 01-27-2008, 04:05 AM
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deanna deanna is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Dear The_Sundance_Kid:


Your mother is very lucky to have you as a son.

I would be greatful to have my son grow up and be as intuitive as you.

Many heart-filled thanks for sharing.

I have saved this post and I am taking to heart all the helpful information for my little boy.

-Best Regards,

De and baby Raiden

F.Y.I
My mother has Capricorn moon in the 12th house. I will never be able to figure her out. She had many years of perscription drug abuse when I was younger and left us with our father. My Saturn is in Aries in the 4th house so sad to say it was not a good situation for me.
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Old 01-27-2008, 04:27 AM
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Kingsley Kingsley is offline
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

Check out Moiety in this article. Scroll down until you read about orbs and further down about Moiety.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects.html

Moon-Saturn has 10 1/2 degrees of moiety for there to be any aspect strength.

cheers

kingsley
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Old 01-27-2008, 04:36 AM
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

I think it should be added, for balance, that this class of aspects always causes the person to be practical, down-to-earth, prudent, responsible and fair. If the chart as a whole is good there is usually considerable compassion for the poor and unfortunate, or those in distress in any way.

I agree that favorable aspects from Jupiter are a must-have for this aspect.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:07 AM
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Re: The effects of Saturn Oppose Moon In A Birth Chart

I would just like to say that even with quality of nurturing styles of parenting the child makes his or her own decisions about self and others in the process of personality development. Some siblings view the same parent in different ways (which can be seen in charts) for example; one sibling may think mum or dad is jus "crazy" and be ok about that, another sibling may develop some other belief about self and the world which develops into personality issues.

I believe the Moon-Saturn especially in the chart of Raiden (what a lovely name Deanna) also relates to his Grandmother. 7th cusp can represent the father's mother or mother's mother in some cases. The 7th also represents close attachments (relationships) for infants and children while growing up. What goes on between the Moon and Saturn is very important with regard to role modelling and the Raiden developing his own attachment style in relationships later on in life. Mirroring techniques in parenting are very very useful. That is to reflect back his expressions by mirroring his facial expressions with an exagerrated display of the feeling he shows at the time (in a nurturing way) at the time. Raiden may develop some authority issues where boundary concerns have interplayed in his growing up. That may not have anything to do with you (mother) but perhaps grandma or grandad. There is a quality of his nurturing that he has the propensity to feel as cold and prickly. His Moon Venus Neptune square Jupiter tends to show great sensitivity and a quality of nuturing that he is used to.

Developing infants in some cases are better off with quantity of nurturing rather than quality and go through a stage of "Object Constancy" where they will identify good and bad elemnets of the way they experience nurturing in life by taking things out on their own objects (teddy's and dolls). Take note of which teddy (or object) he destroys and wich object he cherrishes. That will give you an idea how well he is handling the different aspects of his early nurturing.

My nanna looked after me a lot and I didn't get much quality of nurturing from my mother. I had a teddy that I ripped out eyes and fur etc and a golly wog that I loved and couldn't be with out. Funny though how I still have the teddy in my office.

Keep the cuddles going Deanna

k
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