Unrequited feelings

[The_Sundance_Kid]

In theory if there is a synastry contact, one planet or angle from one chart interacts with another. This would suggest that there is no such thing as an unrequited feeling. Every aspect is two way. This does not fit with what alot of people experience, so I was wondering what people's thoughts are.

I'm thinking that often where there must necessarily be feelings on both sides, they need not be identical, and may relate to the planet affected. Eg for a Venus Mars aspect one would feel Venus and the other would feel Mars. These are different feelings. To what degree do the people involved feel both planetary energies? Even when the same planets are involved, would people always feel the same (eg a mercury mercury contact.) Do you think the nature of the aspect is more important than the planet involved- ie a mercury moon trine would encourage greater reciprocity and identical feeling of both planets in both partners than say a mercury mercury square?

Is the issue different with regards to more distant planets, rendering the feelings more impersonal and generic? One example I've noticed is my Venus Pluto conjunction sextiles another's Mars Neptune conjunction. These seem like odd combinations and is what got me thinking about the theory behind reciprocity, so any comments?

What do you all think about this in your relationships and in theory?

[wilsontc]

Kid,

One thing commonly left out of synastry readings is point of view. Each person in the relationship has their own point of view on the other person. In astrology, this is symbolized by putting the other person's planets around the chart of the other. So the person with the INNER chart feels the OUTER chart person's energy focused in the INNER chart person's houses. Sometimes these OUTER person connections can hit on very sensitive places in the INNER person's charts (e.g., issues they haven't faced, aren't comfortable with, etc.). So the INNER chart person feels the OUTER person is getting "too close" to their sensitive issues and rejects the OUTER person.

Feelings which are actually "unrequited" are more commonly caused when one person has STRONG connections to a personal planet (often Venus), while the other person has NO or very few connections to the same planet. So if person A has strong connections to the other's Venus (relationships) and person B doesn't, then person A feels a strong relationship with person B...and person B may not know person A exists!

Synastrically,

Tim

[The_Sundance_Kid]

I'm confused...if A has strong connections to B's Venus, isn't it B who feels Venusian about A's particular planet, as the Venus belongs to B?

So if A's Mercury touches B's Venus, A's Mercury thinks about B's love, while B will love A's thoughts?

[jjj]

Someone´s Venus falls exactly on my ascendant and after 3 yrs we broke up (long distance connection) cos he says he doesn t love me even though I do love him very much. I think he denies his feelings, but that s how he told me.

[wilsontc]

kid,

To make this clearer, take a look at the attached chart. In the chart A is on the inside and B is on the outside. Notice that B's Venus is in A's 11th house (friends), so A think B focuses on them as a "friend". However, B's Venus in B's own chart is in B's 2nd house (physical, also personal values), so B focuses their own Venus energy on their personal values. So when A receives B's Venus it is "friendly" and when B uses their own Venus they are expressing their own values.

Understanding how this house interaction works is a key to understanding how people can be so confused about the other person in relationships. Even though B may never have thought of A as a "friend", that is way that A RECEIVES B's Venus energy. So A may feel that they were "led on" into a friendship by B when all B was doing was focusing on their own values.

This example of confusion in a relationship is only about planets falling into houses. When planets combine, they is no confusion about who "owns" which energy. Using the example attached, A's Saturn (duty, also authority) over B's Mercury (thinking) indicates A acts as an authority over B's thinking while B feels that A "bosses them around". How this works in the relationship depends on how "bossy" A is over B and how well B can handle authority.

Relating from two points of view,

Tim

[wilsontc]

jjj,

You saidk:

Someone´s Venus [relationships] falls exactly on my ascendant [self]...he says he doesn t love me even though I do love him very much

Notice this is from your own point of view. To get HIS point of view, you need to see where your planets fall in HIS chart.

Looking at the other side,

Tim

[Catatonia]

Dear Wilson, please be kind to interpet an example for me.

My astrodienst is currently down and I can't post the charts.

Person A's 16* Scorpio Sun, 10* Moon, 3* Mercury, and 12* Pluto inhabit Person B's 4th house.

Person A's 12* Libra Venus and 9* Ascendant inhabit person B's 3rd house.

Person A's 29* Sagittarius Saturn and 28* Uranus inhabit B's 5th house.

Person A's 0* Aries Mars inhabit Person B's 9th house.

Person B's 4* Scorpio Sun, 27* Mercury, 21* Venus, and 21* Uranus inhabit Person A's 2nd house. [And Person B's IC is at 3* Scorpio in their own 4th house.]

Person B's 18* Leo Mars and 11* Ascendant inhabit person A's 11th house.

Person B's 19* Libra Pluto inhabits person A's 1st house.

Person B's 22* Virgo Saturn inhabits person A's 12th house.

You can see the whole sign aspects, generally speaking, the conjunction (regardless of orb) will be there. You have the degree orbs to see the aspects too.

[Moulin]

Thanks Tim, cool!

So in theory, if person A's venus is in 1st house and falls in person B's 5th house and person B's venus is in their 5th house and is conjunct person A's venus in 1st house then does

person A receives loving venus from person B and ... actually l have no idea what venus in someone's 1st house is like LOL

Care to enlighten me?

ps. does it also work with Mars and how does it affect being in each persons 7th house pls?

[wilsontc]

Moulin,

You asked:

if person A's venus is in 1st house and falls in person B's 5th house and person B's venus is in their 5th house and is conjunct person A's venus in 1st house...how does it affect being in each persons 7th house

All this "A" and "B" talk is giving me nightmares about geometry all over again! So let's keep this simple. Let's talk about the "Planet person" and the "House person". In synastry everything is from the point of view of the "house person". So, with that simpler way to see things, let's go to your example.

Planet person's Venus (relationships) falls in House person's 5th house (self-expression, also dating). House person feels the Planet person wants to date them. Planet person's Venus falls in their own 5th house so they naturally use their Venus in a "dating" way. So in this example the house focus for both people are the same and there is no possible confusion about "relationships"...BOTH think of them as "dating".

Planet person's Venus falls in House person's 1rst house (being, also action). House person feels Planet person wants to be actively in a relationship. Planet person's Venus falls in their own 1rst house so they naturally use their own Venus in an "active" way. So in this example the house focus for both people are the same and there is no possible confusion about "relationships"...BOTH think of them as "active".

In this example, each person understands the relationship energy of the OTHER person correctly: an interest in dating relationships is an interest in dating relationships, and an interest in active relationships is an interest in active relationships.

Your next example is simpler. Planet person's Mars (being, also action, anger) falls in House person's 7th house (relationships). So each person thinks the OTHER person is interested in being active in relationships. What is missing is where Mars is in each person's charts. If either person's Mars is anyplace other than the 7th house, then misunderstandings can occur between what one person feels a person is doing (Mars) in the relationship and what another person is actually doing.

Relating,

Tim

[Moulin]

haha Tim yeah those A - B via xyz is pretty dizzy making

now, instead of stars in my eyes i'm seeing planets in my houses

Thank you.. totally understand now!!!

and to take a leaf out of your book....

"appreciating",

Moulin

[Moulin]

Originally Posted by wilsontc

What is missing is where Mars is in each person's charts. If either person's Mars is anyplace other than the 7th house, then misunderstandings can occur between what one person feels a person is doing (Mars) in the relationship and what another person is actually doing.

Mars is in 12th and 2nd house, respectively. So, at least they are both introvert but l suppose the 12th house person is sitting on their mars energy, afraid to let it out of the box lol

Would that be right?

[wilsontc]

Moulin,

You said:

l suppose the 12th house person is sitting on their mars energy, afraid to let it out of the box

Yes, that is all too common for someone with Mars (being) focused in the 12th house (spirituality): there sense of who they are "dissolves" and they may find it very difficult to DO things (Mars).

Mars in the 2nd house (physical) can also be a challenge, since it is Mars in the ancient house of its detriment. So Mars in the 2nd house can "dig in" and refuse to do anything unless there is some definite, practical use for it.

Agreeing,

Tim

[Catatonia]

Let's narrow it down. Planet person's Sun, Moon, Mercury, and Pluto in House person's 4th house. House person's Sun, Mercury, Venus, and Uranus in Planet person's 2nd house.

Planet person has all of her planets in her own 2nd house.
House person has all of his planets in his own 4th house.

How's that? Please?

[wilsontc]

Catatonia,

You asked:

please be kind to interpet an example for me...

Person A's 16* Scorpio Sun, 10* Moon, 3* Mercury, and 12* Pluto inhabit Person B's 4th house.

Person A's 12* Libra Venus and 9* Ascendant inhabit person B's 3rd house.

Person A's 29* Sagittarius Saturn and 28* Uranus inhabit B's 5th house.

Person A's 0* Aries Mars inhabit Person B's 9th house.

Person B's 4* Scorpio Sun, 27* Mercury, 21* Venus, and 21* Uranus inhabit Person A's 2nd house. [And Person B's IC is at 3* Scorpio in their own 4th house.]

Person B's 18* Leo Mars and 11* Ascendant inhabit person A's 11th house.

Person B's 19* Libra Pluto inhabits person A's 1st house.

Person B's 22* Virgo Saturn inhabits person A's 12th house.

That's one LONG "example"!

Let's use the method I mentioned to Moulin to keep this simple:

For person B:
Planet person's Sun, Moon, Mercury, are focused in House person's 4th house.

Planet person's Venus and Ascendant are focused in House person's 3rd house.

Planet persons Saturn and Uranus are focused in House person's 5th house.

Planet person's Mars is focused in Person B's 9th house.


For person A:
Planet person Sun, Mercury, Venus, and Uranus are focused in House person's 2nd house

Planet person's Mars and Ascendant are focused in House person 11th house.

Planet person's Pluto is focused in House person 1st house.

Planet person's Saturn inhabits House person's 12th house


Person B feels Person A focuses on their:
Emotions (4th house) - strongest focus
Thinking (3rd house)
Dating (5th house)
Expansion (9th house)

Person A feels Person B focuses on their:
Personal values (2nd house) - strongest focus
Friends (11th house)
Being (1rst house)
Spirituality (12th house)

So Person B feels a strong "connection" through person A's interest in their emotions, and Person A feels a strong "connection" through person B's strong interest in their values. What is MISSING is where Person B and Person A focus their attention on in their OWN chart (not in the synastry chart). This will indicate where possible confusions are between what each person THINKS the other focuses on...and what each person ACTUALLY focuses on.

In focus,

Tim

[Catatonia]

Originally Posted by wilsontc

Catatonia,

So Person B feels a strong "connection" through person A's interest in their emotions, and Person A feels a strong "connection" through person B's strong interest in their values. What is MISSING is where Person B and Person A focus their attention on in their OWN chart (not in the synastry chart). This will indicate where possible confusions are between what each person THINKS the other focuses on...and what each person ACTUALLY focuses on.

In focus,

Tim

Wow, thanks a lot, Tim. So, Person B (whose Sun, Merc, Venus, Uranus) has all of these planets in HIS natal 4th house.

Person A (Sun, Moon, Merc, Pluto) has all of these planets in HER natal 2nd house.

What would you say about the quadruple conjunctions here?

[jjj]

Tim said...

"Notice this is from your own point of view. To get HIS point of view, you need to see where your planets fall in HIS chart."

Yeah Tim, if I had his time of birth, I had already done it, but I do not have it. His point of view seems to be clear as he already said that he does not love me, although I do not believe it. Only time can tell....

Jjj

[wilsontc]

Moulin,

Person B is strongly focused on his emotions (4th house).

Person A is strong focused on her personal values (2nd house).

In the house,

Tim

[Moulin]

ok l understand Tim, thanks.

So a good one would be

planet person A's mars in house persons 6th - helping others
planet person B's mars in house persons 7th - relationship focus

planet person A's venus in house persons 7th - relationship focus
planet person B's venus in house persons 6th - helping others

creating balance through reflection?

[wilsontc]

Moulin,

Yes, this seems a "good" one as long as the House person is aware that the Planet person has their OWN chart with their OWN focuses. The confusion happens when the House person insists that the Planet person is a certain way (i.e., is focused on the House person's houses)...while the Planet person is certain they are NOT that way at all (i.e., is focused on their own houses).

Planetarily houseful,

Tim

[The_Sundance_Kid]

Sorry I haven't replied, I forgot about this thread, and will read it all during my next break. Thank you all for replying!

While I'm reading and thinking, I thought I'd post what I found on the Cafe Astrology site, from the Q and A bit.

Generally, in synastry, the person who is more enthralled is the "owner" of the more receptive planet. For example, with Venus-Mars interaspects, the Venus person tends to be more enthralled by the Mars person, and perhaps the more vulnerable person in this particular equation. However, the Mars person tends to appreciate the Venus person's attention, and so it does go both ways. With Psyche and Eros, Psyche would be the person more likely to be enthralled by the Eros person. Again, the enchantment does go both ways, but the Psyche person tends to be the more vulnerable person in this equation.

[The_Sundance_Kid]

Tim- I finally found this again and read your advice and understand.

You were talking about houses, I was talking about aspects. You're post makes alot of sense to me, and I will use it in the future. So I guess it is the houses and overall chart emphasis that causes the discrepancy, whilst aspects are necessarily mutual, although reflecting the planetary influences involved- which can lead to some asymmetry.

Thank you for your patience in explaining this, I appreciate it!

Sundance

[dog8818]

Ohh this makes sense...

A man who I loved: my venus fell in his 10th house. His venus is in his 10th. My venus is in my 5th. I saw it as love, he saw me as raising his status. Indeed this was the case.... I was someone he wanted because it made him look good. Once I found out that he only wanted me when there was an audience, I cut loose.

sigh. His venus fell in my 5th and my venus is in my 5th....

now he is with a woman with venus in capricorn... she provides much financial security for him...

makes sense!!!

[hermetic]

I'd add something to this very interesting disscussion

while I did notice much truth in the 'planet in other's houses is the way other percieve you', I will add something regarding those sometimes very powerful aspects of being magnetically drawn to someone...

imo, it goes like this - the most usual, Venus-Uranus or Venus-Pluto aspect. Venus is very personal planet. Venus person usually is head over heels for the other. The other person's Pluto or Uranus hits this Venus and blinds it to the point of real infatuation. But... Outer planet person doesn't even need to be aware of this in some cases - in others, the relationship happens(especially with Uranus involved) like the outer planet person was uncouncioussly following this path(for outer planet energies are mostly unconcioss) but doesn't 'fall in love' as a Venus person. He simply may feel Venus person as strenghtening of his uranian energy, at best, if he is aware of it.
a simple example of unrequited feeling(much from my own experience, and those around me)

Same feeling level would be if the aspect went both ways, and even then, different signs and houses for both persons could make feeling uneven.
I'd say, best is when there are about equal number of aspect to personal planets of both parties - personal planets are conciouss energies and when they are affected there are no doubts - it is felt.

[jjj]

As for house overlays, I tend to think that it is felt on both sides.
P ex. my personal planet stellium falls in the 7th house of the man Im currently seeing and I would say that I feel a commitment, too, even though his planets do not touch my 5th or 7th house (rather my 10th and 11th that are ruled by Saturn, my DC ruler). Maybe that plays a role here.

Jjj

[AnnaViolet7]

Thanks for this thread its v.interesting some really good points about synastry which I did not think of before.