Mundane Charts Vs Sign ruling Country

[Summery Joy]

Hello,

I am already having a hard time trying to understand how mundane charts of countries really count without the whole issue of signs ruling countries and cities.

According to this URL
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/more-...ies-cities.php

Egypt as a country and Alexandria, the second largest city in Egypt, are both Pisces. How so? I'm Egyptian. Granted I live in Cairo, but half my family is from Alexandria and it's like my second home. Neither Egypt nor Alexandria strike me as Pisces.

Also, Egypt was declared an independant Republic as of 18 June 1953 (No time available). That makes the Sun in Gemini. The Egyptian people are not your average Gemini archetype (except for the loud voices ).

If you want my opinion, Egyptians as a people display collectively the better and lesser qualities of Cancer, both physical and psychological. We are very home oriented. We tend to be more emotional than rational. We are moody and funny. We are very good cooks. We are generally overweight. A lot of us pretend to be hard and coarse and that life cannot hurt us because feelings are for the weak until the first sign of love comes along (Cancer and its polar opposite, Capricorn).

So what's the story now?

[CuriousGirl]

I don't really know how the signs for countries and cities are calculated... sometimes it's impossible to know the exact date when they were founded. Maybe they meant Ancient Egypt, 'cause today's Egypt is, as you said, much more Cancer than Pisces (although I knew a very nice Egyptian who was very much Pisces

Most of the other countries, however, have signs that define them pretty well, England and Germany are definitely Aries, Italy is very Leo, Hungary is Sagittarius all the way... but USA is said to be a Cancer; I've always heard that USA is Gemini, and the Gemini characteristics fit most Americans much better IMHO.

I guess this is the sun sign of the countries, maybe they also have an ascendant, anything that modifies the picture?

[Radu]

Hello sorehearted

The info on countries & cities is taken from a traditional source - maybe Pisces ruled ancient or medieval Egypt?

Do you happen to have more data on Egypt's most relevant historical events? Let's build a page for Egypt! There isn;t one on AstrologyWeekly in the countries data section. Help me with that, please.

[johan]

A link on how mundane charts can be interpreted:www.astrologie.ws(all birthdays on this site)

The way this astrologer explains the netherlands where i live is
very convincing(maybe for the american,she also describes the chart of the USA)

And for the interested in mundane astrology,the book of campion;book of world horoscopes must be interesting,don't know what it says about egypt

The real time of a mundane chart must be distracted from important events(i remember the liquidation of Anwar Saddat)I think this is what
Radu means

[Summery Joy]

Sure, I'd be delighted

OK. I know that Egypt was declared an independant republic on 18 June 1953.

Before that it had been a Turkish State since I don't know when. In 1881, the British declared "protection" on Egypt. In 1924 (I think), Egypt became an "indepndant" kingdom with its own king, but still under the British "protection". On 23 July 1952, a revolution took place. The king was dethroned and his baby son was placed instead of him under the supervision of the revolution leaders. And finally, on 18 June 1953, the last British soldier left and Egypt was declared the Arab Republic of Egypt.

An important piece of information is this: A lot of Egyptians do not know the date 18 July 1953 as the day of the declaration of the republic. It's mainly remembered as the day the British left. It is not even a national holiday anymore. All Egyptians nowadays think of Egypt as an independant country as of 23 July 1952, which is still a national holiday. No accurate timing is available for any of the dates by the way

Can't wait to see what you'll come up with

[Summery Joy]

Originally Posted by johan

i remember the liquidation of Anwar Saddat I think this is what Radu means

Mohammed Anwar El-Sadat was the third president of the Arab Republic of Egypt. He was liquidated on 6 October 1981. The 6th of October had been (and still is) a holiday since 1973 because it was the day when Egypt launched a successful attack the Israeli Army (at precisley 2:05 pm GMT +2) that had been occupying the Egyptian penninsula Sinai since 5 June 1967. The attack of 1973 was the trigor of the oil problem of the 1970s by the way. Most of the OPEC members were Arab nations, and they boycot the USA at the time to support Egypt's attack. Syria was launching a similar attack parallel to Egypt's butI don't think they got all of their land back. We did, but it took years according to the peace treaty that Sadat Signed with Israel.

Sadat was liquidated because he was heading towards peace with Israel and the West, and Muslim fundamentalists did not like it. They arranged and performed the liquidation. Sadat was known to have started as a Muslim fundamentalist himself, but then he joined the army, was one of the heads of the 1952 revolution and since then did politics for the rest of his life. After his death, Vice Presient Mohammed Hosny Mubarak was elected president and has been so since then.

[johan]

Hello sorehearted,

Is it possible with this data (the liquidation of el-sadat,the occupation of israel,the attack at 2.05 pm) to check it with the natal chart of egypt of
18 june 1953,to see whether it makes sense or not
I find this very interesting,i am curious if other people of the forum can
figure this out to see if this is right,to put it into place
If not sorehearted,are there any other data you can think of when nowaday egypt was born what would make more sense of you concerning the cancer-character?

[Radu]

"Realizing that their time had come, the radical [army] officers engineered a second coup on 18-19 June, the culmination of which was the proclamation of the Republic at 11:30 p.m. GMT on 18 June in Cairo. . . ." Campion, "The Book of World Horoscopes" (Second Edition), p. 144.
Source: http://members.tripod.com/tra_nations/a_egypt.htm

For this hour, I get a 29.18 Aries Ascendant.

Venus is in the 1st house, which I think that is great. I have always associated the pyramids with Venus, as always I stumbled upon a book on pyramids or the pyramid shape effect or everytime I built a wire pyramid respecting the Great Pyramid's proportions, in all those cases Venus was proeminent, in exact trine or sextile with my natal Venus.
I have also met a scientist who built a 15m high glass & steel pyramid respecting the proportions and made all kinds of successful experiments with it and she had a very strong Venus in Taurus, ruler of the MC, in the 10th house.

So, the pyramids are in my opinion of venusian nature. That's why, in the 11:30pm June 18, 1953 chart, the location of Venus in the 1st house seems fit, since the Giza pyramids are the image of Egypt, whenever people think at Egypt, they think first at the famous pyramids...

I also like Chiron sitting on the MC in this chart as it speaks of a very ancient culture, extremely powerful and full of meanings, yet

As for the Cancerian traits, we may notice, Ascendant's ruler, Mars in Cancer which is already an important influence.

[Summery Joy]

Radu,

Thank you very much for the link. I have been loking for a source like that.

I haven't quite thought about the rulership over the pyramids, but your theory makes a lot of sense. I constructed a chart for the counter attack that took place on 6 October 1973, 14:05 GMT +2 like Johan suggested. I am not going to consider it as a chart of the country, but I'll try to see how it describes the war itself and it related to the chart of Egypt.

I got the ASC in Aquarius 3:39 with its ruler, Uranus, at Libra 22:47 in the 9th house. The Sun is also in Libra at 13:06, but in the 8th house. The Moon is right on the ASC and in the 1st house at Aquarius 5:38. Jupiter is also on the ASC at Aquarius 2:24 making it technically in the 1st house also. Jupiter also happens to be the ruler of the 11th house in Sagittarius and the co-ruler of the 2nd house in Pisces. The North Node in Capricorn 2:17 in the 11th house, leaving the South Node at the same degree in Cancer in the 5th house. Saturn is at Cancer 4:39 in the 5th. There's more, but I'm going to work with this for now.

First of all, the Moon on the ASC and the South Node in Cancer explain much of our Cancerian traits. The ASC in Aquarius describes the beginning of the war where the Egyptian Army used technology that was developed within the army to cross the Suez Canal to Sinai and tear down the Barlef denfense line. No one in the world, not even the Egyptian people themselves, could believe that Egypt had the human and technical capabilities to do such thing. The ruler of the ASC is in the 9th house, showing the religious facet of the war. Egypt, as a Muslim country, wasn't just redeeming its land. The people had religious motives as well as patriotic to go to war (as everyone knows, the Arab - Israeli conflict is of both relegious and political natures). Jupiter on the ASC shows it as well. The Sag influence doesn't stop there. It shows how lucky Egypt was to find powerful allies in the war. Syria launched a similar attack on the Israeli army that was also occupying a part of its land (in Golan I think). The Rab OPEC country boycot oil trading with the USA to force the USA not to go to war on Israel's side. If they had, Egypt would have lost the war. In fact, this particular strategy indirectly lead to the peace treaty that the USA initiated between Egypt and Israel (although I think Sadat suggested it). The war itself didn't last long (Mars Rx in Taurus). Israel returned Sinai one piece of land at a time in a peacfeul fashion as per this treaty and Egypt got all of Sinai back in the 1980s.

The Sun in the 8th house shows what? Revenge maybe? It's in Libra which is ruled by Venus returning us to Radu's theory about the most dominant image of Egypt. Maybe it also shows how the peace returned quickly after a very short war. But the Sun is the ruler of the 7th house which should be signifying Israel, right? I don't know. It would work as well because Israel met with the conditions of the peace treaty.

The North Node and the South Node in the 11th/Capricorn and 5th/Cancer respectively show a very important trait in today's Egyptian personality. See, the South Node shows how we, as Egyptians, are proud of our royal hertiatge and how we, at a point, were leading the world. Whenever there's a constructive or destructive critism on Egypt in any way, the Egyptian party resorts emotionally to our royal history and what *we used to be*. My generation (the generation that was born after the 1973 war and happens to be the only living Egyptian generation that hasn't gone to war) is tired of this old tune. Bragging about the past doesn't moves us towards the future. In fact, it's keeping as behind. We're trying to move toward practical, organized future and give Egypt a new image (a Capricorn image). One way we are doing so is in the area of technology (11th house). Anyone in the business should know that Egypt is shooting up like a rocket in the field of IT and Communication technology. This was started by the 1973 war where the Egyptian engineers were finally given a full chance to build and create. Before that, no one believed in the Egyptian technological capability, not even us

Note that I have so far been reading into the chart because it shows me things that I already know. I'd like to get an opinion from you guys. Tell me what you see.

[johan]

This makes all a lot of sense,radu and sorehearted,but how can the event chart of sorehearted be read in the natal chart radu suggests?

For example,in france earlier this year there were riots in paris,and at that time mars(violence) opposit sun transit made an exact square to uranus(revolution) natal in the fifth house(youth),so you can find the event back in the natal chart

[Radu]

Yes, there're some very interesting observations on the astrological influences on the 1953 Egypt chart, at the time of th 1973 war.

First, as the war was started during a retrograde Mars, the results were not those that were expected...
As transits, we'll notice Pluto square natal Mars
(see more on this transit here http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...-astrology.php)
That's a lot of drive, ambition, desire for revenge, and so on. This was emphasized by Saturn in transit over natal Mars which stirs up anger and makes people harsh and vindicative.

Progressions are interesting too: there's this progressed Sun-Mars-Uranus conjunction close to the IC, which represents the most important effect of this war on Egyptians: it built up confidence in themselves, it gave them the feeling of freedom and justice, also helped them recover in time the territories lost in 1967.

The above proves in my opinion the validity of the 1953 Egypt chart.
That chart even tells us about the royal heritage sorehearted talked about - just look: the South Node is in Leo!
And of course, the North Node in Aquarius, in the 10th house, points out the other thing mentioned by sorehearted "Egypt is shooting up like a rocket in the field of IT and communication technology".

[Summery Joy]

This is all so interesting.

What outcome could I get if I compare my natal chart to the chart of 1953? Similarly, what outcome could I get if I progress both charts to today and compare them?

[Radu]

By synastric comparision of your chart with your country's chart you will understand the basic relationship with your country: what you like and dislike about it, what is the area where you may identify yourself with it (as a "typical Egyptian") and what influence you may have on your country.

By progressing, you are updating that information for a specific moment of time.

I'll give you an example: by comparing George W Bush's progressed chart with the 911 WTC chart, you'll notice the progressed GWB Mars on WTC Ascendant and the progressed GWB Ascendant on WTC Sun. In my opinion, this is a classic example of involvement in a major historical event.

[Radu]

I have gathered a few important data from modern Egypt's history on this page, together with the chart:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/countries/egypt.php
Here's the list:
# June 5-10 1967 - Israel launched a lightning attack against the Arab states, including Egypt, destroying nearly the entire Egyptian air force (304 planes) while still on the ground
# September 28, 1970 - Anwar Sadat becomes President (born on December 25, 1918)
# On October 6, 1973, 2:05 pm, Egypt allied with Syria attacks Israel by surprise - the so-called Yom-Kippur war
# October 22, 1973, the UN Security Council issued Resolution 338 calling for a ceasefire and the start of negotiations
# On November 19, 1977 Anwar Sadat suddenly traveled to Jerusalem with overtures of peace to Israel
# March 26, 1979 - signing of the Egypt-Israel peace treaty
# October 6, 1981 Anwar Sadat was assassinated at a military parade by Islamic extremists
# October 14, 1981 - Hosni Mubarak became President (born May 4, 1928) following the assassination of late Anwar As-Sadat

Anyone would like to add or modify anything?

[Radu]

A few comments:

5 Jun 1967 - Israel launches a surprise attack destroying the Egyptian air force - transiting Mars square natal Uranus, transiting Pluto conjunct 6th house cusp (6ht house = the military)
Oct 22, 1973 - ceasefire called by UN - transiting Sun conjunct DSC
Mar 26, 1979 - signing of the peace treaty with Israel - Venus trine DSC, Jupiter square DSC
Oct 6, 1981 - assassination of Sadat - transiting Mars conjunct natal Pluto, progressed Moon square natal Mars

Soi, we might say definitely that this chart works.

Other observations?

[johan]

thanks Radu!

This is so fascinating!I am a little bit ashamed to have missed this article on your site before ops: ,but just a little bit because there is so much information :shock: !Gonna read this article very thoroughly.

About the assassination of Saddat,on this day the transit mars was exactly conjunct natal pluto!Have you Radu (or anyone else)any idea what the meaning is of this conjunction in the 5th house?

[Summery Joy]

Here's two significant dates in Egypt's modern history

25 May 2005.
7 September 2005

On 7 September 2005, the first presidential elections that allowed opponents was held. Before that, the people were only able to approve or reject a candidate appointed by the parliament. An article of the consitution was changed earlier this year to allow direct elections and allowing opponents. That article was changed as per the majority of "yes" results in a public referendum held on 25 May 2005. The last change in the constitution before that was in the 1970s when Sadat was president.

Mubarak won the elections. The official, announced results were that he got over 80% of the votes. The press of the opposition says that he only won by a little over 60% and that although he won, he cheated to overshadow the 30-something % that his major opponent, Ayman Nour, got.

What do you think?

[Elianah]

Hi sore!

The thing with Egypt, with all the "cradle of Occidental civilization" nations is that I think one needs to look at and extrapolate from the multitude of charts the country has to really determine the actual chart.

Unfortunately, the greater majority of us don't have the luxury of time to try to go back as far as necessary to really get the deepest understanding of the earliest peoples that had national identities to their modern nation-states descendents.

What I might do if I was trying to discern the modern personality of Egypt or other countries in the region would to do a composite chart that would include the Balfour Mandate, when the British drew up the boundary lines for the modern nation states of the region, when they gained their independence and any major shifts in political thinking.

For instance, for modern Egypt I might use the Balfour Mandate, the beginning of the Nasar regime and the United Arab Republic, when Egypt reclaimed being Egypt (instead of the U.A.R.), possibly the peace treaty with Israel, and the rise of ultra-fundamentalism in Egypt. This might give a much different reading to Egypt's current personality than just using the date when Nasar proclaimed Egypt's independence from the British.

The date of the sign of the Balfour Mandate is April 25, 1920, 11:20 a.m. in San Remo, Italy.

[Radu]

I have found this text on the net
"Soothsaying is not unusual, nor forbidden, in Islam – as it is in Christianity and Judaism. Muslim caliphs relied on court astrologers as early as the eighth century"
I would like to ask our friends what is the situation of the astrology right now in Egypt or other Muslim countries...?

[Summery Joy]

It's not ok, Radu. No religion here openly accepts it, not Islam and Not any denomination of Christianity. It's not tabboo, but it's fine if it's only for entertainment. If you just mention the words prediction or divination, you are close to getting stoned... only by words of course Too bad, huh? We used to have this show where a woman would use astrology and tarot to tell people about themselves. Some people thought it was entertaining, but it was quite contrvesial. I think the show is still on though.

Elianah,

These are some good points. Actually, I was also thinking about constructing charts for specific groups, like minorities for instance. Christians are a minory here and I figured if I can draw charts for important events that took place between the Church and the State, I would get a good idea of the Christian minority chart and how it relates to the charts of Egypt. Maybe I could do it for women as well.

I think it will also be relative (to every country in the world, mind you) to use the significant charts of the USA. Since it is the world leader at the moment, it's bound to affect all national charts, right?

I'll stick to getting an understanding of the the charts of the Arab Republic of Egypt first though. When I have completely comrehended them, I'll incorporate the other charts. I want to go back in time to the charts of the Kingdom of Egypt and Egypt as a Turkish State. I want the chart of the French Invasion also. I want so many things.. Gemini ASC, shut up!!!

[johan]

Originally Posted by Radu

Venus is in the 1st house, which I think that is great. I have always associated the pyramids with Venus, as always I stumbled upon a book on pyramids or the pyramid shape effect or everytime I built a wire pyramid respecting the Great Pyramid's proportions, in all those cases Venus was proeminent, in exact trine or sextile with my natal Venus.
I have also met a scientist who built a 15m high glass & steel pyramid respecting the proportions and made all kinds of successful experiments with it and she had a very strong Venus in Taurus, ruler of the MC, in the 10th house.

This evening on television there was a very interesting documentary of the pyramids in Egypt in combination with the timecycles and the stars.Here they also made the connection with Sirius.

I am familiar with the pyramidenergy and what you can do with it,but not like Radu,have experimented with it.For people who are not familiar with it,you can built a pyramid and make a level on one/third from the ground,and for example put a raiserblade om this level and use it.It will stay longer sharp,eggs layed there don't rot,lay a rose there and it will dry but will keep its scent.You can also lay a photo there of someone you know with herbs to make him better,etc.It's important you put it exactly north-south with one of the sides.You can also put it under your bed,and then you will gain a lot of energy,but you have got to be careful with that.Well,there are numerous ways of experimenting with it.

I have a few questions.
In the chart of Egypt ,is Sirius playing a role here?I have tried to find something but I didn't.
The Venusian nature of pyramids,how can this be seen Radu,have you got an idea?
What are good books on pyramids and applying pyramid-energy?
This scientist...who was he and what kind of experiments were made by the scientist?And what were your own experiments and were they successful?

[Radu]

About Venus and the pyramids:

The Egyptian pyramids (I'm mainly referring to the Great Pyramid of Keops) - have built in the golden ratio (1,61803399)
Its formula is: (1+sqrt 5)/2.
This golden ratio (the golden number) has very special mathematical properties, as well as in many other fields, I will not go into details, as there's much information available online about this subject.

The same golden ratio is found in Venus' rotation around the Sun. 8 years on Venus = 5 years on Earth. 8/5 = the golden ratio. This is why in astrology, Venus movement around the zodiac describes a pentagon, which is a geometrical shape that is also based on the golden ratio.

My personal observations on the times when I read books on pyramids and pyramidal energy (I would recommend Paul Liekens' book) also when I built such small pyramids at home - all this happened during Venus transits by trine to its natal position in my chart. I did few experiments with those - because of my technical skills are way unsatisfactory and the resulted pyramids didn't had the necessary proportions, but using the one that was closest to the right proportions, I placed an apple inside and left it there for many months, and after all that time it smelled so nice and wasn't degraded at all.

This scientist I referred to is named Marioara Godeanu, a researcher at a biological institute in Bucharest, Romania. She performed many successful experiments with this pyramid of 15m, such as purifying polluted waters

[johan]

Thanks Radu,

for answering the questions.I did believe you when you said it is venusian,but i couldn't figure it out.This explains it.
Apparently Sirius is not playing a part here in the chart of Egypt.

So,yes it makes a lot of sense here that venus is in the first house.
And another book for my private library

[Radu]

Originally Posted by johan

Apparently Sirius is not playing a part here in the chart of Egypt.

I think it should play an important part. Sirius' heliacal rising was traditionally associated with the flooding of the Nile, which rendered the plains fertile and brought life into Egypt. Sirius is very important to Egypt.

Going back to around 2550 when presumably the Giza Pyramids were built, I could find out that Sirius, which like all fixed stars moves at a rate of one degree each 72 years, was then at 11 degrees in Taurus, right on modern Egypt's Venus!!!

Speaking of Venus and her correspondance to pyramids... and Sirius.

[johan]

Thanks Radu,for explaining.

I only thought of the position of nowadays fixed star Sirius,13...Cancer.
(even looked for midpoints and starting to look for a date that would bring uranus to that point,because of uranus and his relation with astrology/the stars
And yes this clarifies venus(and sirius)in the chart of Egypt,and the pyramids!