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  #1  
Old 08-29-2007, 01:33 AM
ceres76 ceres76 is offline
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Yes/No question - HELP!!

Hi Forum!

This is a bit silly - I asked a horary yes/no question which I have never done before, and I'm not sure how to interpret this. I did look at some of the other posts with this type of questions, but I am stumped with the significators.





The question was, Did it matter to him what I told him today?

I need to add that we are not lovers, but I am interested in him. I like him a lot. I think he likes me at least a little. That's all.

I take it that the question is ruled by the 5th. That's because IF the answer is affirmative it would mean that he is interested in me.

So I have to see if Mercury receives any positive aspects. It doesn't. Not only that, but it moves into a quincux with Neptune. I take this to mean confusion, because deceit just doesn't fit. He has nothing to gain from deceiving me or himself.

The 11th is ruled by Jupiter, which does receive a trine from sweet Venus, but it is separating, so NO here again. Also, Jupiter is in 4th, the end of things, which means a superficial friendship is all there will ever be for us?

Jupiter also moves into a sextile with Chiron, not sure what that means, and then into a square with Neptune, again!

I am not sure about the significators here. I am Saturn, but is he really Sun? He is not available because married, so he can't be ruled by the 7th. He is ruled by the 5th? So Mercury then, which - well, we went through that already.

If ruled by the 5th, then HIS 5th is in Scorpio, the ruler of which is in HIS 12th, meaning what? In the end of the thing is in Libra, ruled by Venus in HIS 3rd. I am not sure I understand what any of this means.

Am I making everything too complicated here?

Thanks for reading and taking a look.


Last edited by ceres76; 08-29-2007 at 03:17 AM. Reason: image
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Old 08-29-2007, 03:08 AM
archergirl archergirl is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Hi there,

So what exactly are you looking for from this question?

In other words, is this question really about your conversation (what do you mean by 'matter to him'?), or is is *really*, "Does he like me as much as I like him?". In horary you can ask pretty much any question you want, but most of the time, there is a question underneath the question that is asked, especially if you are new to horary. There is an art to asking a good question, and it's important to be as honest as you can about what it is you are asking. If you can clarify this matter a bit, we'll be better able to help you read your chart!

And PS. just a suggestion, but you don't need all those asteroids in a horary chart; just the basic planets, maybe the North/South nodes, and Part of Fortune will do nicely.

PPS. It isn't a 5th house matter; it's a 1st/7th house matter. You are the 1st house. He is the 7th house. The other houses *may* matter, depending on what it is you're really asking!

Cheers,
AG

Last edited by archergirl; 08-29-2007 at 03:11 AM.
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:38 AM
ceres76 ceres76 is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Hi Archergirl!

You are so right about the asteroids. I put them in there for my own amusement and forgot to remove them before posting. I edited the image above. Much cleaner now.

Anyway, the subtext may well be, does he like me as much as I like him, but that is NOT the question I asked, and I have a reason for that. I very purposefully asked precisely the question that I did, and frankly, it IS a 5th house question. No question about it .

What am I looking for from this question? You can call it a preliminary question, if you will, and I think it's completely legitimate.

As far as your saying it's a 1/7th house question, I think it is foremost a yes/no question, and apparently (I only just learned this myself today) ruled by the nature of the question. If you scroll down in the horary topics you'll see one that asks "Does she still like me" or something like that. It is, just like mine, a yes/no question, and he uses the 5th house.

Best,

ceres76
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Old 08-29-2007, 06:29 AM
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lillyjgc lillyjgc is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Well folks: Having looked again at the question..Did it matter to him what I TOLD him today?" so I see this question as a house three question and take the querent as asc and quesited as House 7... (do I hear the sound of eyebrows being raised???).It is about *communication*.
The asc is ruled by saturn, (which is in his H1- but house 7..Traditionally this says this chart should not be interpreted...and should a client's chart yield this placement I would proceed no further..however for the sake of the learning opportunity I will proceed....)
The communication itself is ruled mars (late degree of Aries) and largely intercepted by venus...(the true nature of your question I suspect).
Mars is in HIS house 10 - your house 4 (the end of the matter).Mars is applying a square to uranus(and the moon)..This communique was very unexpected, from his point of view.As the sun is square to mars it may even have angered him.Mars applies a trine to neptune...in your first house (ie you)...The message itself matters more to you- or you have imagined it having a different outcome to what happened in reality.
I am picking up on a love triangle here....His ruler is the sun (square to the ruler of your message) and conjunct you..Venus however, on his cusp is dropping by, coming back,the same venus that is opposite YOUR neptune..the same venus that intercepts your message...another woman...
Your ruler saturn and his are conjunct, but square to mars and the moon applies to a square to mars as well- maybe you will regret the message...
The moon is applying to conjunct Uranus (rebellion against..)and oppose mercury (natural ruler of messages) and mercury applying to square Pluto.Last aspect of moon also a square to Pluto....I think the answer is not simply a yes or no answer because you have not asked a yes or no question, not really...Neptune right near your asc might explain the trouble with the question itself...something, perhaps, that you would rather ignore here? Anyway, please let us know what transpires...best wishes, Lillyjgc
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:27 AM
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starlink starlink is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Nice one this. I think Lilly is right in suggesting the 3rd house. I also take it and as I am busy recently with the "Yes and No Technique" by Edmund Jones, I take the 3rd as the relevant house in this question and it's opposite, the 9th. 3rd is ruled by Mars, the 9th by Venus (that is you by the way). So what are these two doing? As I recently learned, Venus is retrograding towards Mars and will sextile it. Conjunctions, Sextiles and Trines mean a YES and squares and oppositions mean a NO. So, here it is a yes, and I think he does care about what you said to him. Looking a bit further, I think it will make him think of his social standing or the question had to do with future developments between the two of you. (Venus, ruler 10 and Jupiter co-significator). You will, like Lilly also mentioned, probably regret having asked the question.( Venus retro) or would like to make things the way they were before. I could go on looking at other things, but it is in fact irrelevant to the question which only was: does he care.

Last edited by starlink; 08-29-2007 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:57 PM
ceres76 ceres76 is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Thanks, Lilly and Starlink! This goes to show how much I know :60: ...

I guess, when in doubt, look at the verb. I said indeed, what I TOLD, not how did he FEEL. Hence, 3rd house. Cool.

I am taking this as a learning experience even though I might not like the ultimate answer I'll derive from this, which I still think is no, btw.

Starlink, I am not quite understanding what you mean by Jupiter being my co-ruler. Didn't you say Venus is because aurus is opposite of the 3rd in Aries? How does Jupiter enter into this picture?

And the other thing is, retrograding Venus, even though moving toward Mars, never reaches him. I believe Venus turns direct again at the 16th degree? Anyway before reaching the 13th, for sure. So, doesn't the sextile have to be exact?

I only just started to familiarize myself with the forum part of this wonderful site, and so I realized, after posing, that there are some links on the bottom to horary tutorials, one of them by Celeste Teal (LOVE her!!). And she points out again (I think I once knew this already) that the Moon is extremely informative in pointing to the past and the future in the situations asked about. The first planet contacted while in a particular sign shows what one can expect. In this case the Moon contacted Neptune, and that is entirely appropriate since I "fell under his spell" so to speak during an opposition of my progressed Moon to natal Neptune.

The next planet contacted by the Moon is Uranus which in turn is going to be in an exact quincux with retrograding Venus. And the final aspect will be a square to retrograde Pluto. None of this looks promising, in my view.

So, maybe he does "care" about what I said, Starlink (why did you think that again?) but this caring of his will not affect my life in any way. That's what it looks like to me, anyway.

Also, Starlink, you say Venus is ruler of the 10th. It looks like Scorpio, i.e. Mars is ruler of the 10th, so Jupiter (social standing he is thinking about) isn't in the 10th either, but it's actually Mars in the 3rd. (He is afraid of gossip, maybe?)

Also, one more thing. I never read this anywhere before, but Celeste says that if the querent's significator is retrograde, the Moon becomes the sig. instead. So this applies here then since Venus is my sig. and retro.
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Old 08-29-2007, 03:23 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Hi Ceres, thanks for clarifying. One has to do this because human nature dictates that if things can be unclear, they will be!

I agree with Lillyjgc, this is a 3rd house question, as related to the 1st/7th rulers. However, I disagree here:
Quote:
The asc is ruled by saturn, (which is in his H1- but house 7..Traditionally this says this chart should not be interpreted...and should a client's chart yield this placement I would proceed no further..
because the fact that the querent is ruled by Saturn, and is placed in the 7th house of the Other Person, is very relevant indeed.

Lillyjgc, I think this Saturn rule only applies when Saturn is not the querent or a relevant significator to the question.

The fact is, she is placed in his house in a detrimented position, and this is very telling.

Quote:
Celeste says that if the querent's significator is retrograde, the Moon becomes the sig. instead. So this applies here then since Venus is my sig. and retro.
Celeste might say this, but this is patently untrue! You don't just 'switch' significators simply because one of them happens to be in an undesirable position. Retrograde, detrimented significators are VERY important in a chart in describing the position of the person/thing it represents in relation to the question. There is a reason for *everything* shown in a horary chart, and therefore the state of the planets MUST be given very serious consideration! I can't stress this enough.

As to the question, I think the end answer is 'no'. Mars, which rules the 3rd (your communication), is peregrine in Gemini; it has no strength, is 'wandering'. The Moon, which can represent both 'you' as the querent, and also represents the major 'thrust' of the question (so to speak), is also peregrine in Pisces.

Venus, which rules *his* thoughts/speech, communication, is in really bad shape. It applies to sextile Mars, your communication, and perhaps this means that he is/was receptive to what you said; but because of the retrograde status I think this interest will not last. Neither planet has much power to act.

I am also wondering whether he already has a girlfriend, because Venus on the cusp of the 7th is a strong indicator that at least one of the parties involved, is either married or already shacked up with someone else. In fact, it unfailingly (in my experience) indicates someone else on the scene.

None of the significators in this chart is strong. The Sun, him, is peregrine in Virgo. You, Saturn, are also in bad shape; the good news is that you are about to 'feel better' (about yourself?) with Saturn's ingress into Virgo. There, you will be stronger than him, and more able to act. Right now, neither of you are able to do much.

The Moon applies to square Mars; this is like you going against yourself, or saying something on the spur of the moment which you may regret later.

The Sun also moves to square Mars, and this may be the final indication that whatever it was you said, will not have the outcome you desired.

Best,
AG
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Old 08-29-2007, 04:09 PM
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starlink starlink is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Hi Ceres! Sorry, Each planet in a house is important and can be used as a co-significator
Quote:
.(Venus, ruler 10 and Jupiter co-significator).
What I meant here is not that Venus is ruler of the 10th, sorry, I wrote it in such a way that you indeed get confused here. When I mentioned that he probably was thinking about his social place in the community or something like that, I combined in my head, Venus (you), and the ruler of the 10th (which is Mars) and Jupiter. You see, I saw Venus walking up to Mars and then I see that Mars is also ruler 10, not only the message or what you said to him, but also something to do with the 10th house, so my mind went to: she said something to him that made him think of a 10th house matter. I know, a bit complicated indeed.
About that Venus:
Quote:
And the other thing is, retrograding Venus, even though moving toward Mars, never reaches him. I believe Venus turns direct again at the 16th degree? Anyway before reaching the 13th, for sure. So, doesn't the sextile have to be exact?
Yes, that is what I also thought but AG taught me recently that if you look in the ephemeries, you see that Venus and Mars will make contact before Venus turns retro. I looked it up lateron in an article called " How to beat Time" from John Frawley. He says that indeed there are two ways of looking at this. One is that you consider Mars as standing still and Venus just transiting towards him but at 16° turns direct, so no contact. The other is to look in the Ephemeries and there you see that Mars also moved towards Venus and they meet each other on the 4th of September at 17°. Venus goes direct only days after that. Frawley also says that he himself does not know which one to use, the transit or the Ephemeries, leaves it up to your intuition I believe. He writes: "so when to go for the true aspect and when for the transit?", I dont know!
So this leaves us also a bit in limbo really. AG goes by the true aspect and apparently has good results with that.
So that's why I said, Yes, I think he cares about what you said, but that can also mean that he is upset about it. If you are upset, you also care about what has been said. I did not necessarily mean that he "cared" about you and what you said. That's why I also added that you might be sorry for what you have said. Hope I cleared this up a bit for you. Cheers! Star.
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Old 08-29-2007, 04:22 PM
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starlink starlink is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Oh and another thing. I was only trying out the "Yes & No" technique and in this one, you are Venus. Opposite you is what you said, the message so to say. This technique only looks at Venus as the opposite of that remark and one only looks at a trine, conjunction or sextile between Venus and Mars or a square between them to find a yes or a no. It does not really mean that you are signified per sé by Venus here. You must look at it in a more abstract way. The real significator of this chart is not Venus, but Saturn and he is the Sun. (so you do not have to take the Moon instead of a retrograde Venus, because that does not count in the yes or no technique) I really should not mention this, it is very different from the normal approach. I should use it as a back-up for myself really. So what AG wrote there is the basic horary approach. The Yes or No technique was developed to give an immediate answer without looking into anything else. There is also a big difference between a question where someone can still do something or where he or she cannot do anything about the outcome, so in this last case, it is final. Complicated but for me very interesting.
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Old 08-29-2007, 06:09 PM
ceres76 ceres76 is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Quote:
human nature dictates that if things can be unclear, they will be!
Ain't that the truth... lol.

AG, you know, it's interesting about Celeste, I love her work in predictions, but in the horary tutorial she doesn't mention at all the dignity of the planets (unless I missed it) and it's true, they are so important. And I agree with you, if the significator is retro or whatever, that in itself is crucial information. It's like you say, everything is important in an horary chart.

Interpreting this chart is a lot of fun, because actually, whether the answer is yes or no is probably no more than an ego thing, or whatever. I mean, Neptune IS in the first house, and I think it mirrors my state of mind right now pretty accurately. And in fact, one could even say that this chart should never have been read in the first place, because the question is rather, well, not frivolous, because I am obviously emotionally involved, but it is ultimately immaterial. It's a theoretical question, in a way. Because, AG, you are right on the money: there is another woman. (Someone else mentioned a love triangle earlier, was that you, Starlink?) I didn't know this when I fell for him, but I know it now, and that puts an end to it right then and there. Getting involved with someone who is already with another woman is not only a recipe for heartache, it is also like begging for bad karma. That's not going to happen to THIS girl!! So, while I am still attracted to him, and acknowledge that he is cute as a button, he is strictly hands-off. Period.

So even though what I am asking about is in a way an idle question, and none of my business, and it might not even have been read by someone else, isn't it amazing how revealing this chart is of the whole situation! That's why I sometimes wonder about "invalid" charts because too early or late in the rising sign, it indicates the trend, something too early to tell, or too late, but I bet if one looked at the rest of the chart it would probably mirror the situation pretty accurately.

Starlink, I see what you are saying about Jupiter in 10th, and there might be something to it. Your last posting is particularly interesting. Yes, there are different ways of looking at it, there are layers, so to speak, in one and the same chart. That's what AG was referring to in her first reply, what's the real question here. And I think, again, this chart says it all: if looking for a yes/no answer, ok, he cares, but not in a way that affects the big picture. So it is a yes, but when you look at the real significators, it's all the way what AG said, the sigs are all in feeble positions. Even if we wanted to get involved, our hands are literally tied. We are too weak against this whole framework that is set up against us.

As far as what I said to him - the comment keeps coming up that I might be sorry about what I told him. I hardly think so... To put any possible lurid thinking to rest , all I did was mention in passing, in the course of a normal conversation that was vaguely related, that I was getting a divorce. Which is true, and he was going to find this out anyway from other people. So, I didn't say anything off the wall or inappropriate in any way, and I don't quite understand even where you guys see that in the chart, that I mioght be sorry later. Could you just clarify that for me, I'm interested to know.

Thanks AG and Starlink, you have really taught me a lot with your interpretations. I learned a whole bunch.
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Old 08-29-2007, 07:01 PM
archergirl archergirl is offline
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Re: Yes/No question - HELP!!

Hiya Ceres,

The only reason I said 'you might regret it' is because of the applying squares: the Moon squaring Mars (the 'thrust' or intent of the action (your comment) vs. the action (comment) itself); and the Sun's applying square to Mars (your guy vs your comment). It may not be regret, necessarily; just difficulty or dissatisfaction or 'not the result you wanted'. Mars is a malefic, especially when it has no dignity; malefics in bad shape sometimes have undesirable effects because their worst qualities are emphasized, like a mangy dog trapped in a corner, and squares can be antagonistic. But it depends on everything else in a chart as well. It's all contextual!

Hah, that Venus in the 7th never lies! I should have it tattooed on my arm.

I enjoyed your comments about invalid charts and whatnot. The more I look at charts, the more I think there's no such thing as an invalid chart; most charts can be read, although in the case of, say, a chart with a 28 degree ASC, a VOC moon in a malefic degree, and the querent combust, one might advise the querent to ask again later when they're feeling better!

Best,
AG
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