Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Relational Astrology

Relational Astrology Relationships and the astrological methods of interpreting them are discussed here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-20-2007, 05:14 AM
Mistery Mistery is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Hello all, I'm new here and am so glad to have found you! After perusing many threads, I am quite impressed at the level of expertise offered here so I thought I'd pose a question that has recently come up.

When I meet someone special, I will do a synastry chart to see how my judgement of the situation matches up. I have met someone recently and did just that. The synastry came out so-so but seemed to leave out some significant qualities. What I mean is that deep down I knew there was something really special happening so I did a composite and sure enough, there were tons of positive venus, moon, mars & ascendent aspects. For example, there is an amazing physical connection but it is coupled with a sense of love at such an early stage. I'm guessing that it comes from the Venus Conjunct Sun & Venus Conjunct Mars from the Composite yet it doesn't occur in the Synastry. Actually, it really seems the most important, special qualities of what we are experiencing can only be described by the Composite.

So my question is, is it possible a relationship can 'skip' the synastry? Maybe that isn't the best term to use but I'm sure you know what I mean. This is the first time I have ever come across such a blatant difference between synastry & composite and had only really used composite once I was in a more long-term relationship.

I am very curious to know your opinions on this. Has anyone had a similar experience? Thanks so much!

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-20-2007, 02:55 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator, Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,530
relationship, to Mistery

Mistery,

You asked:
Quote:
my question is, is it possible a relationship can 'skip' the synastry?
My thought is the synastry is each person individually in the relationship. No matter how wonderful the composite of the entire relationship is, each person in the relationship has to work out their synastry differences together or they're never going to HAVE a relationship composite to work with!

Synastrical,

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation see:
http://wilsontc.stormloader.com/index.html#continue
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-20-2007, 03:18 PM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: relationship, to Mistery

Sorry to barge in here, but I find this also interesting. Judging from what you say Tim, if a composite looks great, could it not mean that the two people have worked out or are able to work out their synastry differences?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-20-2007, 04:23 PM
smilingsteph's Avatar
smilingsteph smilingsteph is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On a rollercoaster!
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to smilingsteph
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Myself I thought that if two people were to have a good composite then they have a good rapport with eachother...like friends and business partners...but they synastry chart indicates whethere they can be in a romantic relationship..
I believe both are equally important..as the flame of a new love dies down per say..then will the couple be able to maintain a relationship in the long run?...per the composite?
Can a....
Good composite can help overcome synastry difficulties...and good synastry can help overcome composite difficulties???...whoa then we have a lot to look at when it comes to a relational astrology huh! I am just learning how to do a personal chart!!!
__________________
Life is about the eternal search for completion through unity and love
If God created the earth and the heavens then why cant we study the heavens through astrology?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-20-2007, 04:42 PM
jjj jjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 180
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Hey,

to me composite seems more powerful in the sense that a good composite makes two people being together in spite of their challenging synastry, and vice versa... you can have a really nice synastry with someone and you two get along really well, but life does not let you to be together (composite sun opp Pluto, Uranus, comp Moon square Pluto, Uranus etc). I personally find it sad....... itīs my personal experience....

J
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-20-2007, 09:29 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator, Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,530
relationship, to star

star,

You asked:
Quote:
if a composite looks great, could it not mean that the two people have worked out or are able to work out their synastry differences?
My opinion is that the synastry has to be worked through before the composite benefits can be had. People who have a very challenging composite and decide not to work through their differences won't gain the benefit of the relationship composite. Also, I think of the composite as a point of view OUTSIDE the relationship. It is not about the individuals, but about the relationship as a whole. So an easy composite with challenging synastry could indicate that the two people have a lot of issues to work through (synastry), but when they are together people outside the relationship think the two get along together very easily (composite).

Opinionating,

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation see:
http://wilsontc.stormloader.com/index.html#continue
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-20-2007, 09:37 PM
jjj jjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 180
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Tim, what do you think of the other thing - positive and compatible synastry, but very challenging composite? Can it work? Very eager to know your opinion...

J
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-21-2007, 06:08 AM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: relationship, to star

Thank for your opinion Tim! It goes indeed along the lines of what I thought.
JJJ's question is particularly interesting for me (and the answer to it!!). I will come back a bit later.

Maybe only the positive composite shows the benefits we can have from a well adjusted difficult synastry. But if the synastry is really incompatible and the people do not do their best to make things better, then the composite MUST show total incompatibility as well in my opinion (and cannot therefore show any benefits) and then also show this to the outside world. I dont know, I find composites difficult to comprehend contrary to synastries.

Last edited by starlink; 08-21-2007 at 09:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:51 AM
Mistery Mistery is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Excellent points have been brought up, thank you so much for your opinions. I am also interested in JJJ's question. Perhaps the synastry reports I have run are not that extensive or my knowledge of what to look for is limited (quite possible ).

Here's the info if anyone cares to check if I missed anything in the synastry.

Mistery: April 19, 1966 3:23am Chicago, IL
Him: February 3, 1964 12:50am Springfield, IL
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:02 AM
unukalhai's Avatar
unukalhai unukalhai is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Lonestar State
Posts: 440
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Simply put, synastry shows the interactions and dynamics between two individuals, but really has little to do with the relationship itself. That is the domain of the composite chart.

Composite charts show the dynamics and nature of the relationship itself once the people have actually started to merge at levels important to the inner self. This doesn't happen until a number of the person's defenses have been lifted, the relationship progressing from the 1st/7th axis to the 2nd/8th axis in astrological terms. The more merged the people become, the closer to functioning as one entity, the more important the composite chart is. When two people are only casually involved or not willing to "let the other in", the composite chart is all but meaningless, as there is no true balancing occurring.

In technical terms, a composite chart shows the midpoint of a set of objects. If A has Venus at 0Aries, and B has Venus at 0Taurus, composite Venus would be 15Aries. From this, it becomes apparent the composite chart represents a "middle ground" between the two people, a point of balance, much in the nature of the sign Libra, which is the very art of relating... So we are dealing with the relationship itself.

In my opinion, difficult synastry is more worrisome than difficult composites; if interpersonal difficulties abound, it's unlikely the folks will actuate the composite chart very much, but if the people have good interpersonal interaction, dynamic energy in the composite will stimulate both to further engage eachother and the relationship will be a source of energy, as the dynamic aspects show stimulation. On the other hand, a composite loaded down with trines and sextiles, quite passive aspects, may loose its zest quickly and motivation to continue the partnership will be lacking. Boredom and lack of excitement is a sure-fire way to break a relationship. Not many people stay in relationships that are boring or otherwise lacking in excitement unless there is a component of fear or an excessive need for security (be it emotional or material, or even pure convenience) involved, but even those relationships often only last until the next major outer-planet transit; the outers are well known for compelling us to make changes we're otherwise unwilling to make.
__________________
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-21-2007, 09:31 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: At the Fairground
Posts: 2,161
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Here is an article I just found saved in my favourites, it covers a lot of these type of questions, it is by Liz Greene . According to Liz Greene Composite aspects which show the frustrations or other type of problems within the Composite are pretty much fixed and you would have to accept it as part of the relationship. Whereas your natal chart can be worked with and the way you react together through synastry can be worked on but Composite wise it is kind of fated. A lot of interesting stuff in this article.

Here it is is:

The Composite Chart by Liz Greene

Relationships and how to survive them:

One plus one equals three


The concept behind the composite chart - or, as Erin Sullivan sometimes calls it, the compost chart - is that it represents the relationship itself as a third factor. Two people create a third thing between them. The composite chart is like an energy field, which affects both people and draws certain things out of each individual as well as imposing its own dynamics on both. The composite doesn't seem to describe what either person feels about the other. In this way it is very different from synastry, which describes the chemistry between two people in terms of how they affect each other. When we are exploring the synastry in a relationship, we say, "Your Venus is on my Mars. You are activating my Mars and bringing a Mars response out of me, and I am activating your Venus and invoking a Venus response in you. Consequently we feel a certain way about each other." When we are looking at a composite chart, we are not exploring what two people activate in each other or feel about each other. We are interpreting the energy field they generate between them. The composite chart is like a child, a third entity which carries the genetic imprints of both parents but combines these imprints in an entirely new way and exists independently of either of them.

Because the composite has all the same features as a birth chart, we need to approach its interpretation in more or less the same way. The composite chart has a core identity which signifies its "purpose" (the Sun) and a characteristic set of emotional responses and needs (the Moon). It has a mode of communication (Mercury) and a distinctive set of values and ideals (Venus). It has a mode of expressing energy and will (Mars). It has its own way of growing and expanding (Jupiter) and it has innate limitations and defence mechanisms (Saturn). It has a specific vulnerability to the collective due to patterns from the collective background of the relationship (Chiron). It reflects certain collective ideals which strive for change and progress (Uranus). It has innate aspirations which reflect certain collective fantasies (Neptune). It has a bottom-line survival instinct which can prove supportive to the relationship's continuity but can also be destructive if the relationship is under threat (Pluto). It has an image or role to play in the eyes of society (MC), and it has a "personality" which will express itself in certain characteristic ways to the world outside (Ascendant). The signs in a composite chart describe the basic stuff or "temperament" of which the relationship is made; the planets describe the motivating energies; and the houses describe the spheres of life through which the planets express themselves. All this is basic astrology, and it is no less applicable to the composite than it is to the individual birth chart.

Relationship as an entity

We do not usually think of our relationships as independent entities. More often, we think in terms of our own feelings and attitudes, or the feelings and attitudes of the other person. Yet every relationship creates its own ambience. None of us behaves in the same way when we are half of a couple as we do when we are operating solo. We might have characteristic behaviour patterns when we are alone, but the moment we are with our partner, a certain kind of energy dynamic is set in motion and we behave in particular ways which are sometimes very noticeable in the company of other people.


Two people in relationship create an atmosphere around them, not by conscious choice, but because that is simply what happens. Other people will often reflect this back to us. "The two of you seem such a lively, attractive couple," a friend might say, or, "What an exciting life the two of you must have!" Meanwhile, one is thinking to oneself, "What on earth are they talking about? That isn't how I feel." We might see something like composite Jupiter rising in Sagittarius and Libra at the composite MC, and other people perceive the relationship as an exciting and glamorous Jupiter-Venus entity. But one's partner's Saturn might be conjunct one's Moon and opposition one's Sun, and the synastry between the birth charts might make one feel more like Sisyphus and his rock than Mick Jagger and Jerri Hall. The opposite can also occur. The composite may have Saturn rising and Chiron culminating, and the world sees something quite heavy when one is with one's partner. But the synastry may involve lots of Venus-Jupiter-Uranus contacts, reflecting an excitement within the relationship which both people personally feel but which does not express itself to others.

We can learn a lot about the angles of the composite chart for an important relationship by asking other people how they see the relationship. Often we might be in for quite a shock, because the answer may not reflect how we actually feel about the other person. The composite, like a natal chart, presents itself to the world according to its Ascendant and MC. It has a ruling planet which will focus the expression of the relationship in a certain house or sphere of life. The houses of the composite work in the same way they do in a birth chart, reflecting spheres of emphasis through which the dynamics of the relationship are manifested. When composite planets highlight a composite house, that area of life will be extremely important to the relationship, and both people will be impelled to focus on it, even if the same house is empty in both birth charts. A relationship can push us into having to confront certain areas of life, even if natally we are neither predisposed nor well equipped to cope in that area.

Composites have their own laws and energies, and these have nothing to do with whether we are "well matched" with someone. A composite in itself will not tell us about compatibility. That is what synastry is for. The composite won't reveal whether the relationship is "good" or "bad" in terms of the chemistry between two people. The composite says to us, "If you choose to enter this relationship, here is its meaning and pattern of destiny. This is what it is made of and what it is for." If we want to get a sense of whether or not that meaning and destiny are going to make us feel good, we have to compare the composite with our own chart.

If we examine the synastry between the composite and the chart of each individual in the relationship, we can learn a lot about how the relationship makes each person feel. We can also take a third party and compare that person's chart to the composite. This is a fascinating exercise. Let's say that I am in a long-term relationship, but also have a lover. I can take that third party's chart and look at how it affects the composite chart between me and my partner, and I can get a very clear picture of how my lover affects the relationship. We can also look at the chart of a child in relation to the composite between the parents. This is very useful in terms of understanding family dynamics. Some children have a way of really disrupting the parental relationship, while others help to glue it together. We can see this by looking at the child's chart in relation to the parents' composite. We might not see this dynamic by merely exploring the synastry between the child and each individual parent.

Freedom and fate within relationship

Working with composites makes us think in terms of something larger than ourselves as individuals. Wherever we go, we create interfaces with other people, and we may not have the same amount of choice in dealing with those interfaces as we might when we deal with our own personal issues. If one has a Sun-Saturn square in the birth chart, one can actively do something with it. One doesn't have to be its victim, or live solely from the darker side of it. It may be a difficult aspect in early life, and it may reflect deep feelings of insecurity or inadequacy. But one can say, "I know that a lot of my self-doubt is connected with my father and my childhood. I sabotage myself because I am sometimes afraid to aim high. I am often too hard on myself, and expect too much. But I'm going to try to work on these issues. I'll make an effort to understand what they are about. I may need some psychotherapy to help me to learn to trust myself more. And I'll try to develop my Saturn sign so that I have more confidence." Gradually one can shape that Sun-Saturn square into something very strong and creative, if one is willing to put the necessary effort into it


But when a Sun-Saturn square appears in the composite chart, the relationship cannot go into psychotherapy. The relationship cannot say, of its own volition, "I'm going to work on these feelings of limitation and self-doubt." The relationship does not "feel" self-doubt. Both individuals can work on their own Saturns. But neither may have a Sun-Saturn square, and neither may really understand why, when they are together, something in the relationship thwarts and frustrates their joint goals. The external limitations which often accompany a composite Sun-Saturn may seem strangely impersonal and beyond one's control.

The impersonal feeling of the composite may be very uncomfortable for us if we are psychologically inclined, because psychological astrology implies individual responsibility and a belief that we can change many things in our lives if we are prepared to do the inner work. Because we view the birth chart as an inner picture, we can take responsibility for how we express it, and consciousness can make a huge difference. A psychological approach to astrology allows us to transform many things if we make sufficient effort. But one can be deluded by the fantasy that one can change anything, and some things lie beyond the individual's scope of influence. I am not suggesting that composites are not psychological, or that we should abandon this approach when interpreting them. But "psychological" does not always mean free, and change may mean a change in the attitudes of both people toward the relationship, rather than a change in the endemic pattern of the relationship itself.

We can do nothing to change the fundamental patterns in the composite chart. Of course the same may be said of an individual chart. But we seem to have more room to affect the levels on which we express our natal patterns. This gives us the inner sense - valid or not - that we have the power to participate actively in, or even create, our own future. Maybe we do, at least in some areas of life. But a composite presents us with a different experience, if not a different reality at core. We can change how we react to the patterns in the composite, and we can make the effort to provide creative outlets for its energies. But even with the maximum cooperation with a partner, the patterns of a composite still feel "outside" our sphere of personal influence. A composite will not say, "This is a bad relationship - get out of it." But it may say, "This relationship has got an inherent restriction which neither person is going to be able to alter. If you want this relationship, accept this issue." If the composite chart has a Sun-Saturn square or a Sun-Chiron conjunction, it contains built-in limits, often of a very concrete kind. These limits may prove to be creative and positive for either or both individuals. But they feel as though they have been imposed on us. A Sun-Saturn square or a Sun-Chiron conjunction in the natal chart also contains built-in limits, but we experience them differently.

Let's take composite Sun-Chiron aspects. I have seen these many times when a relationship involves the unavoidable inclusion of limits from the past. The past may be an ex-partner who wants big maintenance payments, or it may be children from a former marriage. These situations can cause a lot of pain, especially where children are involved, because no matter how mature and conscious the two people are, there will be conflicts, divided loyalties, hurt feelings, and perhaps also financial restrictions. It is not a question of altering attitudes; a priori families, for any couple, are a built-in fact which will always impose limits. If a couple do not experience limits in such circumstances, then we probably won't see Sun-Chiron in the composite chart.

We know that Chiron is connected with experiences of wounding, particularly those which seem unfair and unmerited, and which are a product of the state of the collective at the time rather than some particular person's fault or act of malice. Sun-Chiron contacts in a composite suggest that the relationship itself carries an unhealable wound, usually from the past of both parties, or from the nature of the world in which the two people are living. At the same time, the relationship may provide deep healing for both people, or for others who come in contact with the couple, because the inherent limits invoke suffering and consequent understanding and compassion.

I have sometimes seen Sun-Chiron in a composite when two people want very badly to have children but are unable to do so. This is a wound which can make people think much more deeply about who they are and what purpose their lives serve, because they do not have the collectively sanctioned "purpose" of a family to give them a direction in life. Another example might be a partnership where there is a great age difference, and the younger partner must watch the other grow old and frail. No amount of love and commitment can turn the clock back. Or there might be a physical handicap in one partner which may be genuinely and deeply accepted, but which limits the mobility of both people. Yet another example might be a racially mixed marriage, or a homosexual relationship, both of which may provoke animosity among neighbours who are xenophobic or too rigid in their definitions of normality. Xenophobia and rigid opinions are characteristic of many, many people, and no amount of agonising or raging will alter this unfortunate flaw in human nature. Both people may be hurt through the relationship, not because it is "bad", but because there is something about the way the relationship "sits" in the collective which limits its possibilities.

I am not saying that it is a static picture. As far as healing is concerned, it depends on what you mean by the word. Chiron's wounds do not heal in the sense of going away. Something has been permanently twisted out of shape, even if the poison has been released and cleansed. One cannot regain innocence once it has been destroyed by the kind of wounding this planet reflects. But one's attitude toward the wound can change, and greater tolerance, compassion, and wisdom can result. That is a kind of healing; but it cannot undo the past. One cannot, for example, make one's children by a former partner vanish in a puff of smoke. One can try to numb the wound by cutting off from the children emotionally, and never seeing them again; and then there is another sort of wound that must be dealt with. Or one can work very hard to face all the emotional complications, and eventually establish rewarding relationships with everyone concerned. But there will always be compromise and sadness and a sense of loss. Such aspects in the composite chart do not mean that the effects of the difficulty remain static and unchanging. Both people may be deeply and permanently transformed. But the past cannot be remade.

The composite chart progresses like a birth chart, and this reflects changes within the relationship just as it does within the individual. But the composite chart as an entity doesn't have the same capacity as an individual for deciding of its own volition to change or fight against something. It is not a conscious individual. Both people may work to become more conscious, and the ways in which they experience the relationship may change accordingly. But the basic patterns of the relationship unfold like a seed growing into a plant, with a natural inevitability that may feel alien to our ego-centred consciousness.

Taken from
Liz Greene:

Relationships and how to survive them
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:42 PM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Unukalhai, I really like your opinion about composites, especially this:

Quote:
the relationship progressing from the 1st/7th axis to the 2nd/8th axis in astrological terms. The more merged the people become, the closer to functioning as one entity, the more important the composite chart is. When two people are only casually involved or not willing to "let the other in", the composite chart is all but meaningless, as there is no true balancing occurring.
Maybe that's why I am not so fond of composites. The people need to be together for quite a while before it makes any sense.

Shiny, Thanks for that excerpt! I dont know if I agree with the "fated" side of a composite, but I will read this first quietly and see where she gets that idea from. As a Taurus, I want certain determinations to make sense to me, otherwise I have trouble accepting it. First thing that crossed my mind was: Where does our free will go with a fated composite? I strongly believe in the fact that we can determine our own fate (except when the house comes down on you or the ground dissapears from under your feet because of an earthquake of course). And even then you could decide not to live in an earthquake zone. But thanks a lot, I am going to print it out now.
By the way, how do you do this? Do you scan the article into your computer first?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:49 PM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

I just received my latest Astrological Magazine (for Astrology, Psychology and future tendencies), called "Astrology Heute" (Astr. Today) and there is a whole section about the Karmic meaning of the Moonnodes in Synastry and the resulting question: "when are separations definite and when not". I am very curious to read it (I wished I had about 4 hours per day more to read, cant keep up!!) In the edition before this one there was also a big article about Composite and Synastry so I will delve into that again (just brushed over it. It is in German, not my native language, so I really need to sit for this one). See if I can come up with something interesting for you guys. Cheers, Star.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-21-2007, 03:44 PM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Hi Shiny! I read the article and I do totally agree with the way Lizz sees the "fated situation" in the composite chart. Indeed, if one partner has children from a former marriage and in his present marriage either does not want more children or cannot have children, that is something they have to live with, that can be seen as fated, even though they learn to live with these limitations. Very nice article.

I read the following article in my magazine about what a Composit is and they say that a composite indeed shows the potential of the relationship which ideally will be brought out as well (but not always happens). Part of the composite shows constellations that are lived out within the relationship, but also are projected towards the outside world or onto their own children.

Added information from the Synastry can be helpful, like it could be very possible that with a Moon/Saturn Opposition in the Composit, the partner with the strongest Saturnal qualities in the natal horoscope will probably take over the Saturnal role within the relationship instead of the partner with more Water qualities.
That's why a Composit chart should always be interpreted in combination with the Synastry chart. It also says that planets in the Composit Signs are less important than planets in the Houses and the aspects that the planets make with each other, because that shows where and how the energies of the planets involved will express themselves. (Planets in the signs become more important in yet another method called Combine charts .I had never heard of this one to be honest.This is apparently a horoscope based on the midpoints of the geographical Birthplace of the partners and their birthtimes. Here the planet placements in houses are not used at all, unless very close to an angle). I dont think I will deal with that, it gets too complicated for me thank you very much !!

Then I saw something about the Moonnodes and Karmic meaning in Synastry.
Apparently, a very important factor for the Karmic development of strong friendships and especially love relationships is the conjunction of a personal planet with the Moonnode axis of the partner.
When there should be a crisis in the relationship (Uranus transit through the 7th or conjunct Venus or something with similar effect), then you can see if the relationship will overcome this crisis or not by looking at personal planets in conjunction with the North or South Node. When conjunctions with the North Node of one partner in conjunction with a personal planet of the other partner exists, then this could help considerably to overcome difficulties and sort them out. On the contrary, when a personal planet of one is found in conjunction with the South Node of the other, it could mean that the two will not be able to overcome differences and will separate. The Moonnode axis represents the deeper located, fateful currents that will ultimately decide in which direction a relationship will develop. The last outcome about whether a relationship, after a row of important experienced developments (caused by transits and progressions) has a chance to survive, depends on the Moonnodes. The South Node lames the energies of the personal planet that it conjuncts, therefore making it very difficult to work towards a better development of the relationship.

When one partner has his South Node in conjunction with the Moon of the other partner for instance, there is the likelyhood that one has an instant feeling of belonging, like one knows that person from another life (if one believes in reincarnation). The same happens with conjunctions to Venus give this feeling of having known the person before. But when Sun, Moon, Venus or Mars in the Synastry fall in conjunction with the other partners South Node, then the relationship will sooner or later become very boring in the particular area in the chart (house) where this conjunction falls and one has the feeling that one is treading in the same place, not coming forwards.
The opposite is true for the North Node conjunctions. They usually work out very energetically and one has the feeling that one can still discover so much more together. Especially the partner with the North Node can profit from this encounter. The possibility for future development are considerable..
Of course there are exceptions to these rules. Not all people have a weak planet polarity in their synastry, no conjunctions between personal planets and Moon Node axes of the other. So why do these relationships break up. Statistics are that every 3rd marriage ends within the first 7 years.
The answer to this question has to be that not all quickly set up relationships or Blitz marriages manage to get over the first time period together and are therefore basically not to be counted as Karmic relationships. For these marriages or relationships that end just as fast as they began, the Moonnode positions in synastry do not have the same meaning as in serious longterm relationships. Even when we DO find a serious relationships where we find a conjunction between the South Node and a personal planet, but who divorce after 7 years, it never could have been a relationship as promising as a pair where one partner has a personal planet in conjunction with the North Node of the other partner. These last ones have a better chance to be together for longer than 7 years without becoming bored with each other.
When we believe in reincarnation, then we should see the short relationships as a "finishing" of of a relationship from another life and thus there is a purpose for these people to come into our lives. For those who do not believe in reincarnation, they should just try to see this short encounter as a resting point, a point of enjoiment, for the time they were together.

I freely translated thîs from an article written by Arnfried Haupt, author of many astrological articles as well as the book: Planetpolarity in Synastry and others.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to starlink For This Useful Post:
fullmoonlibra (12-14-2013), Tora (08-18-2014)
  #15  
Old 08-21-2007, 03:59 PM
wilsontc's Avatar
wilsontc wilsontc is offline
Senior Member, Moderator, Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,530
composite, to jjj

jjj,

You asked:
Quote:
what do you think of the other thing - positive and compatible synastry, but very challenging composite? Can it work?
I think unukalhai said this very well:
Quote:
synastry shows the interactions and dynamics between two individuals...the relationship itself...is the domain of the composite chart
So if the synastry is "positive" (meaning that the two people are willing to work out their issues together), then a relationship can form. So the people are ALREADY used to working out their differences through their work together on the synastry. This means that, even if the composite is challenging, difficult, tough, etc., they already have ACCEPTED the challenges of the relationship.

In addition, neither person IN the relationship (synastry) DIRECTLY experiences the relationship as a whole (composite). They each experience the other person and see everything in the relationship from the point of view of how they see the other person. The only people who can "see" the composite relationship are those people outside the relationship. So the "challenges" these "outside people" see are challenges the relationship itself creates, and the people IN the relationship will not be aware of these challenges, since they can't see them directly.

Think of it this way. Two people are inside a house. They can go from room to room and look outside the windows. But, since they are INside the house, they can't see the OUTside of the house. Only people OUTside the house can see the outside of the house. So people inside the "relationship house" only see the inside (synastry). And people outside the "relationship house" only see the outside (composite).

A worked-out synastry and a challenging composite indicates a relationship that works fine for the people IN the relationship, but makes people OUTside the relationship wonder how these two can ever stay together!

Relating inside and outside,

Tim
__________________
To learn basic astrological chart interpretation see:
http://wilsontc.stormloader.com/index.html#continue
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:22 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: At the Fairground
Posts: 2,161
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Hi Star,

Nice Article, the planets inside the house probably would be more noticeable, as you can see how together you handle finances looking at planets in the 2nd perhaps (gosh I think me and my partner have Neptune in 2nd composite, we are never organised with finances it is kind of everywhere. I am probably the worst spender, but I get spoiled by my partner so it his fault .) Imagine if you had Saturn really badly aspected in the composite 2nd house do you think you would always be financially frustrated in the relationship. Or be poor no matter what, maybe this is something you would have to accept. I think me and my last partner must have had a bad 2nd house we were poor all the time we were together. I don't have his birth time, to check it. The relationship I am in now is more stable, it has Saturn influences in Synastry and composite.

I also agree on the likelihood that the more Saturine partner natally will take on the Saturn role in the composite if there are Saturn aspects. The way Astrology works it all seems to fit, if you really sit down and look at it. Like my Son in his natal chart has a Capricorn Moon, and I have Saturn on the Ascendant. Although I also have a Pisces Sun, Moon and chart ruler in Pisces, that side of me is strong as well. I was reading about this last night that my Son perhaps can draw out my Saturn nature more, if I had another child with a Pisces Moon for example, I would probably react more Piscean or the child would influence that response more in me. Like my partner's Sun is right on top of my Saturn in Virgo, and no matter how hard I try at times my Saturn nature can be brought out more with him. My partner also has Venus in Libra Conjunct Pluto and square to Saturn - The first thing I noticed in the relationship is that he brought out my jealous side. I have never been the jealous one in a relationship. Natally I have a Venus square Pluto aspect. He may also bring my Saturn nature out more because of his Venus/Saturn and Venus can be projected onto the female partner. My last partner had a Venus square Neptune - He definitely brought out my Victimised Pisces nature. It is all very interesting once you really start to dig deep.

With the Nodes and synastry I have read similar things where planets on the South Node don't have as much growth or you feel held back. And North Node planets can really push the relationship forward. There is so much to look at in relationship charts of any kind.

Thanks for the article .
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:33 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: At the Fairground
Posts: 2,161
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Here is the second part to the Liz Greene article. If your in the mood for a long read. To be honest I haven't read it all myself yet. I probably will do tomorrow, I only found this yesterday. I am not sure, if this is the right place for this but it was part of the same book with the composite Article. So Here it is.

The Eternal Triangle

Liz Greene has the knack of writing about the most complex and murky areas of life with a sparkling astringent clarity, and a compassionate appreciation that there are always two sides to a story. In this article, she explores one of the knottiest human patterns, looking at those relationships in which there are three sides.

Relationship triangles are an archetypal dimension of human life. We do not ever escape them, in one form or another. We also tend to handle them rather badly when they enter our lives. That is understandable, because triangles are usually evocative of very painful emotions, regardless of the point of the triangle on which we find ourselves. We may have to cope with feelings of jealousy, humiliation, and betrayal. Or we may have to live with the sense of being a betrayer - of being dishonest, of injuring someone. We may feel all these feelings at once, as well as the conviction of being a failure. The emotions that are involved in triangular relationships are often agonising, and cut away at self-esteem. Because triangles confront us with very difficult emotions, we will usually find ourselves trying to blame someone for the presence of a triangle in our lives. Either we blame ourselves or we blame one of the other two people. But triangles are indeed archetypal - and if we have any question about their universality, we need only read the literature of the last three thousand years.

Anything archetypal presents us with a world of purposeful patterns and intelligent inner development. There is something about the experience of the triangle which can be one of our most powerful means of transformation and growth, unpleasant and painful though it is. Betrayal, whether one is the betrayer or the betrayed, does something to us which potentially could be of enormous value.

Nothing enters our lives that is not in some way connected with our individual journey. This does not imply blame or causality, but it does imply a deeper meaning which may be transformative for the individual who is prepared to seek that meaning. If a triangle enters oneís life, it is there for something. If we choose to react solely with bitterness and rage, that is our choice. But we could also choose to make the triangle a springboard for some real soul-searching. This is particularly difficult because the experience of humiliation usually invokes all the defence systems of infancy, and it is very hard to move beyond such primal responses to a more detached perspective. As astrologers, we may find it worth exploring whether there is such a thing as a pattern in the chart that is conducive to triangles; whether there are deeper reasons why any individual gets involved in a triangle, by their own or someone elseís choice; and why some people are more prone to triangles than others. We might also consider what possible approaches might help us work with triangles more creatively, which will involve looking at them psychologically and symbolically.

The universality of triangles

There are many kinds of triangles, not all involving an adult sexual relationship. Even if we restrict ourselves to sexual triangles, we would find many different varieties. Sexual triangles are not always made of the grand dramatic stuff of Tristan and Isolde. In some adult love triangles, all three points are fixed. There are two partners and there is a third person involved with one of the partners, and there is no movement in the triangle. It is static and may go on for many years, until one of the three participants dies. In other love triangles, one of the points is constantly changing. One can practise serial adultery - sometimes, as in the case of John F. Kennedy, with an astonishing rate of turnover. But both these situations are triangles, even though we tend to accord a higher romantic value to the first; and both will evoke the same spectrum of archetypal emotions.

Apart from triangles where a sexual involvement exists between any combination of the two sexes, there are many other kinds of triangles. The most fundamental are those involving parents and children. Triangles may also involve friendships. More complex are the triangles which involve non-human companions. One partner may feel a sense of jealousy and betrayal about the other oneís dedication to work or artistic involvement or spiritual development. Such triangles can evoke exactly the same feelings of jealousy as the sexual variety. When one withdraws into a creative space, one has somehow "left" the person one lives with, and it can create enormous jealousy on the part of oneís partner. The creative process is an act of love, which is perhaps why the 5th house is traditionally said to govern both. If one loves oneís work, it may evoke enormous jealousy. There are even triangles involved with pets. This might sound absurd, but one partner can feel extremely jealous, hurt, upset, and abandoned because the other partner is deeply attached to his or her cat or dog - even if one does not wish to admit to such feelings in public. All these different kinds of triangles may seem unrelated. The one thing they have in common is the component of one or another variety of love, which, in a triangle, is no longer exclusive. And when we must share someoneís love, whether with another person or with something ineffable like the imagination or the spirit, we may feel betrayed, demeaned, and bereft.


The Betrayer is the person who apparently chooses to get involved in the triangle. I use the word "apparently" because one cannot always be sure how much conscious choice there really is, and one cannot be sure how much collusion exists between Betrayer and Betrayed as well. But whatever might be at work beneath the surface, the Betrayer is a divided soul. There is a love or attraction or need for two different things. Most of us carry the assumption that love should be exclusive, even if on a conscious level we profess a more liberal perspective. Because of the values of our Judeo-Christian heritage, we are brought up to believe that if our love is not exclusive, it is not love, and we are no longer "good" people. We have failed, or we are selfish and unfeeling. When we experience this kind of deep inner division, it is therefore extremely difficult to face. It is much easier for the Betrayer to come up with a list of justifications for why he or she is committing the act of betrayal. We do not often hear the Betrayer say, "I am divided. I am torn in half." More commonly, what we hear is: "My partner is treating me very badly. He/She is not giving me A, B, C, and D, and I need these things in order to be happy. Therefore I have a justification for looking elsewhere."

At the next point of the triangle is the Betrayed, who is apparently the unwilling victim of the Betrayerís inability to love exclusively. I have used the word "apparent" here too because, once again, there may be some question about the unconscious collusion involved in this particular role. All three points on the triangle are secretly interchangeable. They are not as different as they first appear. But the Betrayed generally believes that he or she is loyal, and it is the other person who is disloyal. It is someone else who has initiated the triangle. Usually we think of the Betrayed as having the hardest time in a triangle, because this is the person who generally acts out all the pain and jealousy and feelings of humiliation.

Finally, at the third point of the triangle, there is the Instrument of Betrayal. This is the person who apparently enters an already existing relationship between two people and threatens to destroy or change it. This point of the triangle usually gets a rather bad press, being seen as "predatory" or a taker of someone elseís beloved possession. If we happen to occupy this point, we may receive only limited sympathy, and none at all from those in established relationships who feel the cold wind of their own possible future. In fact, the Instrument of Betrayal may feel himself or herself to be a victim, and may perceive the Betrayed as the predator. We can begin to glimpse the secret identity between these two points of the triangle. There are people who move round the triangle and try all three points during the course of their lives, sometimes many times. There are other people who stick with one point exclusively, and always get betrayed in their relationships, or always wind up playing the Betrayer. Or they are always the Instrument of Betrayal, and keep getting involved with people who are attached elsewhere.

We might also think of triangles as belonging to four basic groups. These may overlap, but they may also be associated - up to a point - with distinctive astrological configurations. There is the ubiquitous family triangle, about which this article is primarily concerned. There are also power triangles and defensive triangles. These two varieties of triangle are not really separate, although there are some slight differences. Both have a distinctive flavour, and the reasons for their entry into oneís life may not be entirely rooted in the family background. A defensive triangle would be, for example, a man or woman who needs to form an additional relationship outside their established partnership because of feelings of deep inadequacy. They may be plagued by great insecurity, and may feel very frightened that if they commit themselves too much, and put all of their eggs in a single basket, they would be too vulnerable, and rejection would be utterly intolerable. A triangle is then unconsciously created as a defence mechanism. If they are abandoned by one partner, they have always got the other. This is not usually conscious, but it is a powerful motivating factor in many triangles.

There are also triangles in pursuit of the unobtainable. These can overlap with family triangles as well as with defensive and power triangles. But there is a special ingredient to the pursuit of the unobtainable, and often the deeper motivation is artistic or spiritual. Sometimes, when we seek unobtainable love, it actually has little to do with human beings. But we may translate our creative or mystical longings into the pursuit of those we cannot have. In this way we open up a dimension of the psyche which has more to do with creative fantasy than with relationship. The artistís "muse" is rarely his or her wife or husband. This kind of triangle can involve elements of early family dynamics, and it may also incorporate defensive motives; but it needs to be understood from a different perspective.

The last group - triangles which reflect unlived psychic life - subsumes all the others. When we look more deeply at family triangles, we always need to ask why we want so badly to be close to a particular parent. What does that parent mean to us? Why can we cope with indifference from one parent but require nothing less than absolute fusion with the other? In the end, inevitably, we will find bits of our own souls farmed out along the points of the triangle - any triangle, whether motivated by family dynamics, power, defensiveness, or all of the above. There are exceptions, because there are always exceptions to any psychological pattern. But in the main, when a triangle enters our lives, regardless of the point we are on, there is some message in it about dimensions of ourselves which we have not recognised or lived. If a pattern of triangles keeps repeating, then it is a very strong message, and we need to listen to what it is trying to tell us.

The family triangle

Family triangles do not finish in childhood, but have repercussions throughout life. If unresolved, they may secretly enter our adult relationships. If a family triangle is unhealed, we may recreate it, once or many times, hoping on some deep and inaccessible level that we will find a way to heal or resolve it. Freud developed the idea of the Oedipal triangle - also known as "the family romance" - in a very specific context. In his view, we attach ourselves passionately to the parent of the opposite sex, and enter into a situation of rivalry and competitiveness with the parent of the same sex. Depending on how the Oedipal triangle is resolved in childhood - and this includes the parentsí responses as well as oneís own innate temperament - our later relationships will inevitably be affected. If we unequivocally "win" and get the exclusive love of the parent of the opposite sex, we suffer because we never learn to separate or share. We experience a kind of false infantile potency because we feel that we have beaten the rival. We are all-powerful, which may open the door to a later inability to cope with any kind of relationship disappointment. And oneís relationships with oneís own sex may also be disturbed accordingly.


If, for example, a boy sees his mother and father in conflict, and "wins" the Oedipal battle by becoming his motherís surrogate husband, he may experience deep unconscious guilt toward his father. Also, he may lose respect for his father, whom he has apparently pushed out of the way with great ease. The boyís image of father may then be of someone weak, impotent, and easily beaten, and somewhere inside he will fear this in himself, because he too is male. This boy may have to keep affirming his Oedipal victory later in life by turning every male friend into a rival, and relating exclusively to women. Such men do not connect with other men, but only to the women who are attached to other men. The bond with his mother will have cost this man his relationship with his father, which may mean he has no positive internal masculine image on which to draw, and no sense of support from the community of men around him. His sense of male confidence and male sexual identity must rely entirely on whether his women love him - and the more, the better. That is a very insecure and painful place in which to live. We could apply the same interpretation in the case of a woman and her father.

If we entirely lose the Oedipal battle - and the operative word is entirely - we also suffer. Absolute Oedipal defeat is a humiliation which can severely undermine oneís confidence in oneself. By "absolute", I mean that the child feels that no emotional contact of any kind has been achieved with the beloved parent, and a profound feeling of failure ensues. One simply cannot get near the parent, who may be incapable of offering any positive emotional response to his or her child. Or the other parent is always in the way. Later in life, such an emotional defeat can generate a gnawing sense of sexual inadequacy and inferiority. It can contribute to many destructive relationship patterns - not least the kind of triangle where one is hopelessly in love with a person who is permanently attached elsewhere. One may become the unhappy Instrument of Betrayal, forever knocking at the closed door of a loverís marriage. Or one may become the Betrayed, helplessly repeating the Oedipal defeat in the role of the established partner who is humiliated by the greater power of the mother- or father-rival. With both unequivocal Oedipal victory and unequivocal Oedipal defeat, we are unable to establish a psychological separation from the beloved parent, and a part of us never really grows beyond childhood. We may then become stuck in repetitive relationship dynamics where we keep trying to "right" the original difficulty through a triangle.

Freud thought that the healthiest resolution of the Oedipal conflict is a kind of mild defeat, where we get enough love from the beloved parent but are still forced to acknowledge that the parentsí relationship is ultimately unbreachable. We may then learn to respect relationships between other people, and build confidence through establishing relationships beyond the magic parental circle. We are here in the realm of what Winnicott called "good enough" - a good enough parental marriage, a good enough relationship with both parents, and sufficient love and kindness for the Oedipal defeat to be accompanied by a reasonable sense of security within the family and a knowledge that one will continue to be loved. It is also important that we do not fear punishment from the parent-rival. Sadly, many parents, themselves emotionally starved and resentful in an unhappy marriage, do punish their children for "stealing" the partnerís love. We need to recognise that we cannot supplant one parent in order to have the other, but we also need to know that we will be loved by the parent we have tried to overthrow. Naturally this is an ideal which few families can achieve. A great many people suffer from one degree or another of excessive Oedipal victory or excessive Oedipal defeat. What really matters is what we do with it, and how much consciousness we have of it. And nothing is quite so potent an activator of consciousness as a relationship triangle.

There is considerable value in Freudís psychological model, and there do seem to be many situations where absolute Oedipal defeat or absolute Oedipal victory are linked with a tendency to become involved in triangles later in life. But there are serious limitations to this model of the family romance. The parent to whom we attach ourselves is not necessarily the parent of the opposite sex. The parent may be oneís own sex. Oedipal feelings are not, after all, "sexual" in an adult sense, but have more to do with emotional fusion. So, in fact, do many of our apparently purely sexual feelings in adulthood; sexuality carries many emotional levels which are not always conscious. An Oedipal defeat or victory involving the parent of oneís own sex may have equally painful repercussions, and be equally conducive to later relationship triangles. One may feel dislocated from oneís own sexuality, because the beloved parent is a model for that sexuality and the bond is too weak or negative to allow the model to be internalised in a positive way. A man may forever try to win his fatherís love by proving how manly he is. He may then unconsciously set up triangles which are not really about the women with whom he becomes involved, but are unconsciously aimed at impressing other men - or punishing them for the fatherís rejection. And a woman may try to win her motherís love and admiration in the same way, or punish other women for her motherís failure to love her. The rival in an adult triangle may be secretly far more important to the individual than the apparent object of desire. We have only to listen to the obsessive preoccupation the Betrayed and the Instrument of Betrayal have with each other to recognise that the situation may be psychologically far more complex than it seems.

Helpful Oedipal hints - Venus as a parental significator

The birth chart can tell us a lot about our images of our parents, and the experiences we have encountered through them. When we look at a chart, we may find some helpful Oedipal hints. The parental significators usually show up very powerfully, and in such a way as to involve oneís emotional and sexual needs and oneís image of oneself as a man or woman. We might find planets in the 10th or the 4th house, which immediately suggests the parent is a carrier for or representative of something mythic and archetypal. Having no planets in the parental houses does not mean there are no conflicts with the parents, or no subjective image which we project on them. But it is often easier to perceive the parent as another person, another human, however flawed. When planets occupy these houses, the planetary gods appear with the parentís face, wearing the parentís clothes. A piece of our own destiny, our own inner journey, comes to meet us in very early life, disguised as mother or father and passed down through the family inheritance. While this is not "bad" or "negative", it does imply something powerful, fascinating, and compulsive about the parental relationship which requires a greater degree of consciousness and a greater effort at integration.

Repeating triangles in adult life are frequently linked with planets in the parental houses. Often we will see Venus in the 10th or 4th. Venus describes what we perceive as beautiful and of value, and therefore what we love, both in ourselves and in others. If a parent appears in the birth chart as Venus, that parent is going to be a symbol of what we recognise as most beautiful, most valuable, and most worthwhile. That in itself is not negative. But it may mean that we project our own beauty and worth on the parent, and a lot then depends on how the parent handles such a projection. We see deeply lovable, worthwhile qualities or attributes in the parent and we fall in love with the parent because we are in love with the attributes. Hopefully, as we mature, we eventually introject these things, and recognise that they belong to us as well as to the mother or father. This process can help to create a lasting, loving bond between parent and child - a mutual valuing of the other for qualities which are shared. But not every parent is free of hidden agendas regarding his or her children. If the parent is too hungry for love and admiration, he or she will unconsciously work to maintain the projection and remain forever Venus in the childís eyes. Venus is not known in myth for her emotional generosity. She is a vain goddess and is repeatedly implicated in love triangles. If we leave the Venusian image projected on the parent, we may never recognise it in ourselves. Then we will keep looking for parental surrogates on whom we can place this image of all that is worthwhile and desirable in life, and we will keep finding Venusian love-objects who seem worth so much more than we do ourselves. Or we may try to reclaim Venus by playing her ourselves, pitting one lover against another in order to convince ourselves that we are really of value after all. Where Venus is, we love.

Rivalry is one of the most characteristic attributes of Venus placed in the house of the parent of oneís own sex. We may wind up feeling a lot like Snow White a good deal of the time. With Venus in the 10th in a womanís chart, there may be deep and painful rivalry between mother and daughter. From the daughterís point of view, the mother may appear to be very jealous, although the jealousy may be expressed covertly as incessant criticism or subtle undermining of the daughterís feminine confidence. Sadly, the jealous or competitive mother is often an objective reality. But it is oneís own Venus in the 10th, and one must sooner or later acknowledge oneís own jealousy as well. If Venus is a same-sex parental significator, then Venusian attributes

are shared between parent and child. The archetypal love-goddess, who must be the fairest and best-loved of all, is an image which has passed down through the family line. This image needs to be individually expressed and not forever relegated to a battle as to who will win the love-object. In this case the love-object may not be as important as beating the rival. Rivalry and envy are closely related, and when Venus is a same-sex parental significator, we may see beautiful, enviable qualities in the parent and wish we had them ourselves. Then we begin to compete in order to prove that we are Venus too - a bigger and better and more beautiful Venus.

Parents may also feel a sense of sexual threat when confronted by a child who is growing into sexual maturity before their eyes. This sense of threat may be based on heightened sexual awareness. When Venus is a parental significator, it may not be felt purely on the parentís side, but may happen in both parent and child. Recognising that erotic feelings may be shared between parent and child does not constitute an excuse for child sexual abuse. Nor does it imply an "abnormal" relationship. But children can be very seductive, in a childlike way. They are "trying on" their sexuality. They neither want nor expect an adult sexual response, but they need to discover their own physical and emotional identity through expressing it to the parent. These things are simply part of family life. They are not pathological; they are human, and intrinsically healthy. The erotic energy that is part of any personís development process in childhood is going to be unleashed in the family because that is the appropriate place for the child to unleash it. It is also natural and appropriate for the parent to respond positively - although it is not appropriate for this to be acted out in destructive ways. Some children may carry more of an erotic energy pack than others; this may depend on factors such as where Venus and Mars are placed in the childís birth chart. Likewise, some parents may be more susceptible than others, and the synastry between parent and child may help to illuminate why this should be so. A reasonably stable parental relationship is important, and also a sufficient degree of consciousness, for the parents to be able to contain this natural process without falling into a triangle. If one is a little girl with Venus in the 4th house, one may well try to split the parents, because father is the beloved with whom one shares some very lovely and pleasurable feelings. And if the parental marriage is insecure, and the mother unconsciously begins to behave in a hostile or competitive way, is her behaviour surprising?

Divided loyalties

Even in the happiest and most emotionally stable of families, one may feel both deep love for and intense rivalry with the parent. One may find, for example, Venus in the 4th and Moon in the 10th. This is the case in the chart of Prince Charles, who has offered us one of the more notorious triangles of modern times. With such configurations there may be a strong identification with the rival. The child may wind up in a position of being the Betrayer as well as the Instrument of Betrayal. That is not conducive to feeling good about oneself,

so something is likely to be suppressed. The young ego simply cannot cope with such ambivalence. If one expresses Venus in the 4th, with all its implications of love for the father, one will hurt and betray the mother. And if the Moon is in the 10th, how can one do this to someone whose feelings one is so identified with? Then Venus may get suppressed, and later in life one may wind up in a triangle without understanding the early pattern which is fuelling it. Or the feelings for the mother may be suppressed. One may become a "marriage wrecker", as they used to call it in the days when there were still marriages. A "marriage wrecker", psychologically speaking, is a person who moves in on an established relationship, not only because of genuine affection and desire for the love object, but also because there is a compulsive need to take on the role of - to literally become - the rival with whom one is secretly identified.

It is very difficult to acknowledge such a pattern in oneself. If we wind up in the role of the Instrument of Betrayal, we like to think that we have truly fallen in love with someone, and the fact that they are already in an established relationship is just bad luck. They made a mistake and married the wrong person, or they married against their will because there was a child on the way. Whatever rationalisations we give ourselves, we may justify our role as Instrument of Betrayal by devaluing the importance of the already existing bond. This may sometimes prove extremely naive, and lead to a great deal of disillusionment and hurt when one discovers that the "unwanted" spouse means far more to the beloved than one has ever been able to acknowledge. One may also discover, to oneís horror, that one begins to behave exactly like the despised rival whom one has initially relegated to the "he/she only stays with her/him because of the children" bin. When parental issues are unresolved, the urge to unseat a couple may be extremely powerful - especially if the rival is also oneís close friend, which facilitates recreating the feelings of the original family triangle.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:37 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: At the Fairground
Posts: 2,161
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

We may also see things in the beloved parent which are not so lovely. For example, a man with Venus in the 10th may also have a Moon-Pluto square or a Moon-Saturn opposition, or Venus conjunct Saturn or Chiron. There are two very different images of mother expressed by such combinations, one of which is beloved and beautiful, the other of which is threatening or hurtful. These two attributes tend to manifest in oneís later life as two people - the Betrayed and the Instrument of Betrayal. This is what Jung called a "split anima", or the female equivalent - a "split animus". Jung was quite preoccupied with the psychological dynamics of this pattern because he suffered from it himself. Although his definitions are somewhat rigid and in need of greater flexibility in interpretation, they are useful in helping us to understand why we need triangles, and why the three points are secretly interchangeable. All three people are likely to suffer from the same unresolved parental dynamic. The inner split seems to be particularly strong and conducive to compulsive triangles when apparently irreconcilable opposites appear in the same beloved parent. There are parents in whom the opposites are not terribly opposite, but there are also parents in whom they are very extreme. Such parents are fascinating and often exercise great sexual charisma because they are so unfathomable. The parent is beautiful and beloved, but also hurtful, cruel, unfeeling, devouring, or otherwise indigestible. It is very hard for the human psyche to accept extreme opposites in one package, so one needs two people through whom one can experience the ambivalent feelings. One will get to be Venus, and the other will get to be Pluto or Saturn or Chiron or Mars or Uranus.

Parental images which convey extreme opposites may contribute to a propensity for triangles in adult life. We get involved with someone, and over time that person begins to take on the image of one side of the parent. After a few years of living together, we begin to say to ourselves and our friends, "My partnerís so possessive, I just have to have some breathing space," and there sits Venus in the 10th or the 4th, square Pluto. Or we say, "My partner is so restrictive and conventional, I just have to be free to be myself," and there sits Venus in the 10th with Moon opposition Saturn. We feel we arenít enjoying the kind of beautiful, erotic, amusing relationship that we hoped we would find in partnership. We then justify the lover who plays the role of Venus. The split is acted out, but in fact it reflects two opposite qualities that we have not come to terms with in the relationship with one parent. Of course such splits connected with the parents are, at the deepest level, concerned with opposite qualities that have not been resolved within oneself. All triangles, including those arising from the family background, are ultimately concerned with our own unlived psychic life. If we were able to reconcile our own opposites, we could allow our parents to be contradictory as well. There is nothing extraordinary about a parent having both a charming, lovable Venusian side and a withdrawn Saturnian side or a demanding Plutonian side. Human beings are multifaceted, and they may both love us and hurt us. But we may find these contradictions in our parents intolerable if the parents themselves cannot cope with their own contradictions. Then we get no help in learning to integrate our contradictions. And some of these, in astrological terms, are simply too extreme to deal with in early life. By this I mean configurations which link Venus or the Moon to Saturn or Chiron - these require a wisdom only time and experience can make available - or to the outer planets, which are quite impossible for a young child to integrate on a personal level.

Split families - oppositions from 4th to 10th

Triangles may develop within the family through the parents splitting up. Often this is portrayed in the birth chart by oppositions from the 4th to the 10th. Such oppositions do not inevitably indicate that the parents have separated, but usually there is conflict and separation on a psychological level, if not a physical one. One experiences the parents in opposition, and when this happens we are usually forced to take sides. Our own inability to cope with the situation impels us to do so, and sometimes one parent cannot refrain from trying to elicit the childís loyalty as a weapon against the other parent. In this situation the bottom line, as ever, involves a contradiction within the individual, experienced first through the parents, reflected by opposing planets in the chart, and ultimately needing to be dealt with on an inner level. But unconsciousness on the part of the parents can make this a longer and harder process. Even if we are subjected to no parental pressure, it is unlikely that we can cope with divided loyalties at such a young age. And in such circumstances it would take extremely wise and conscious parents to be in sufficient accord with each other to place no emotional pressure of any kind on their child. Usually, if the parents are so unhappy that they are separating, they are not in the mood to be cooperative. Separations release primal emotions in us, and these may involve considerable vindictiveness - especially if the separation is triggered by a triangle.

Often the child winds up feeling like a football in a particularly aggressive football match. One parent - especially if he or she is the Betrayed - may attempt to claim possession of the child, overtly or subtly, in order to hurt the Betrayer. There are certain scripts which appear to be read by lots of people. For example: "Your father left me because he was a *******. He was incapable of loving. He didnít love any of us, otherwise he wouldnít have gone off with that woman." The message to a male child might be: "I hope you donít grow up to be like him." The message to a female child might be: "I hope you donít grow up to marry somebody like him." Such messages do not have to be spoken. They may be communicated through martyrdom and ongoing misery. The Betrayed, when parents split up, will usually have great power over the childís psyche because of the compassion he or she can draw out of the child. Children are not equipped to step out of the fray and look objectively at the break-up. It must be someoneís fault, either their own or one of the parents. And children also dare not reject those messages, because they are terrified of angering the parent who is now the sole caretaker. In our society, when parents split up, the mother usually gets the child - even if this is not psychologically the best solution for that particular child. There are many instances where the father might be emotionally better equipped to raise the child, but the courts of law do not see it that way. The mother must be quite floridly appalling to have her child taken away from her. If the parents are not actually married, the fatherís rights may be nonexistent in terms of access. One might well question whether a father really merits having his child torn away and turned against him solely because he has betrayed his wife. But triangles have a way of generating very unpleasant emotional consequences which carry on down the generations and breed more triangles.

The permutations of human blindness are many and various, and divorcing or separating parents - or even those who remain living together but are emotionally alienated - will generally demand that the child choose one or the other. The love for the other parent must be denied, suppressed, silenced. This is terribly human. If we are hurt by someone, we find it hard to bear if someone else we love shows affection to the person who has hurt us. If there are oppositions between the 4th and the 10th in the childís chart, then the childís own inner division colludes with the parentsí division. I have seen many, many examples over the years where the person has had to deny great love for a parent in such circumstances. The denial may be believed even by the person himself or herself. When we see Venus, Moon, Neptune, Sun, or Jupiter in a parental house, we know that there is a powerful positive bond with the parent, even if the relationship has also been very difficult. If any of these planets are in the 4th, they are likely to describe strongly positive and even idealised feelings for the father. But if there has been a break-up and the father has gone off - or if there are oppositions from planets in the 10th, even if he hasnít gone off - it may prove impossible for the person to keep such feelings in consciousness. The ambivalence may be too
painful, and the sense of disloyalty to the mother may be too great to bear. Perhaps the father has left because of another relationship. Perhaps he marries again, and has other children. Then the problem is compounded, because the childís own jealousy allies with the jealousy of the mother and makes it quite impossible for the emotional bond with the father to be recognised. The relationship is destroyed, and the child, who is now grown up, says, "Oh, I havenít seen my father much since the divorce. I have very little to do with him. I see him occasionally, but we donít have much of a relationship." All the positive, loving feelings have been pushed underground, because we do not cope well with divided loyalties. We suppress them because we have to survive psychologically; and we have to live with mother.

If there are planets in the 4th which suggest love and idealisation, and the parents split up, the suppressed feelings for the father may provide fodder for later triangles. This can apply to both sexes. It should not be surprising if a woman coming from this kind of family background, with this kind of chart configuration, winds up playing the Instrument of Betrayal and hurls herself at a married man. Equally, she may find herself as the Betrayed, married to someone just like her father. Or she may become the Betrayer as a defence, because she is determined not to wind up like her mother. A man with this background and chart placement may wind up unconsciously choosing a woman like his mother and then, to his horror, finds himself in his fatherís shoes. A triangle may be inevitable, because the more unconscious the feelings are toward this beloved missing parent, the more certain they will be to emerge later in an adult relationship.

These unconscious feelings may also cross sexes. They do not necessarily limit themselves to women who seek the missing father in other men, or men who find themselves in the same situation as their fathers. A man who has lost his father, and who has Venus or Neptune or the Moon in the 4th, may seek the qualities of the father in women. Or if he is gay, he may seek them in another man. We need to think of these dynamics not from a perspective of rigid sexual demarcations, but as a way of attempting to heal a wound. Also, they reflect our efforts to contact archetypal qualities in our adult relationships which we glimpsed first in the parent and which we ultimately need to find in ourselves. Because we carry something unresolved and unhealed, we may faithfully recreate our parentsí marriage. Then we may find ourselves in the same triangle, on any of the three points, with either or both sexes. These underlying dynamics seem very obvious when we start thinking about them. The difficulty lies in thinking about them when we are in the middle of a triangle. It is very easy if we are the detached astrologer or psychotherapist - if there is indeed such a thing as an entirely detached person - or even the friend with a certain amount of psychological knowledge. We may clearly see the familial roots of many adult triangles if we are observers, but it is extremely difficult to see them when we are involved in the triangle. And the more unconscious we are of our parental dynamics, the more emotionally compulsive the triangle is likely to be, and the harder it is to see clearly.

Even if we do see, we may still be bound, because we have to live something through. We do not heal anything through the exercise of reason alone. But the emotions which the triangle brings to the surface may change, and the outcome may be very different, internally if not externally. The sad thing about triangles is that everybody loses. Sooner or later, on one level or another, all three people wind up hurt. Even if the Instrument of Betrayal succeeds in breaking up an existing relationship and "getting" the love-object that he or she has been fighting for, it is a Pyrrhic victory. The Betrayer has to choose in the end, so even if something is won, something is also lost. And the victory is no less Pyrrhic for the Betrayed who succeeds in "getting back" the erring partner. We have exercised our Oedipal power and reversed the original Oedipal defeat that we suffered in childhood. But what have we really won, and what must we live with afterward? Resentment seems to be inevitable, no matter which point of the triangle we favour. If we are the Instrument of Betrayal, we have led someone else into making a very painful choice, and often there will be a lot of suffering, not only emotionally but also financially, and so there will be resentment. But even more importantly, if we remain unconscious, we have done nothing to heal the inner split which lies behind the triangle. We have only achieved an external solution. Nothing has really changed.

Insecurities which generate triangles - Saturn and Chiron

There is another consequence of family triangles - the potential alienation between oneself and others of oneís own sex. An unresolved Oedipal battle may result in a loss of trust in oneís own sexuality. If a situation of intense rivalry and competitiveness occurred with the same-sex parent, there will inevitably be effects in terms of our friendships and the way that we interact with our own sex later. If a woman has a mother who is an insurmountable rival, at whose hands she has suffered a painful and humiliating childhood defeat, confidence in her femininity may be undermined. And because she does not trust herself, she will not trust other women. They will all seem to have the power to "take away" those she loves. This mistrust of oneís own sex can be very acute. A woman may have a wonderful friendship with another woman, and then she meets a really lovely man, and they get involved, and what does she do about introducing her friend to her partner? The undercurrent of anxiety and suspicion may make things very difficult, and unconsciously she may even set herself up for betrayal. She may unconsciously select as friends those of her own sex who act out her unresolved conflict with her mother, because they have unresolved conflicts with their mothers. The same applies to men. If a man has experienced a situation of destructive competitiveness with his father, then, in any later relationship in which he becomes involved, the issue of rivalry will always raise its head, because other men always seem to be potential rivals. One must be on guard all the time. This is not possessiveness in the ordinary sense. Its roots are quite different.

Placements such as Venus aspecting Saturn or Chiron can contribute to this dynamic, not because they are in themselves Oedipal, but because they reflect certain insecurities which can be compounded by the family triangle. Mars aspecting Saturn and Chiron may also reflect deep sexual insecurities which are heightened by family triangles and lead to feelings of defeat. These sets of aspects may compel a repetition of the failure later, or an attempt to heal the hurt by proving oneís sexual potency through triangles. There is no single astrological pattern which describes a propensity for triangles, but rather, many different combinations which can describe different images of and responses to the parents, and different ways of reacting to the natural and inevitable Oedipal phase of childhood. Venus-Saturn and Venus-Chiron do not "cause" a person to be drawn into triangles, but they describe a deep and innate awareness of human limits which, in childhood, when there is no real comprehension of what this could offer in a positive sense, can lead the child into feeling inadequate and damaged. The loss or alienation of a beloved parent will then be attributed to oneís own failings, and later in life one may feel one cannot "keep" a partner because a rival will always take him or her away.

Oedipal experiences often come out with a bang in midlife, because the planets making their cycles at that time - Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus - may trigger configurations which connect us to childhood issues. There is a great deal of unlived life clamouring for expression under the midlife group of transits, and unresolved family triangles that have managed to remain buried may finally break out because they are carrying unlived psychic life with them. But it depends on how powerful the conflict is. It may come out much earlier. There are people who experience triangles from the very beginning of their relationship lives. Not all triangles have parental roots, and parental roots may also involve something deeper. We may well wonder what could be deeper than the Oedipal dynamic, but as Jung was reputed to have once said, even the penis is a phallic symbol. If there is a family pattern which is unresolved, such as the Venusian issues we have been looking at, it stands a good chance of erupting in oneís outer life under the appropriate transits. That, for some people, may be the only way any kind of healing or resolution becomes possible. But behind the parental issue is the archetypal issue - why do we seek the love of that particular parent, and what does the parent symbolise for our own souls? This is invariably linked with what needs to be developed in oneself - oneís own destiny.

At midlife, if important bits of oneself have remained undeveloped, they will come bursting out, especially under the Uranus opposition to its own place. And often, the first place we meet these occluded bits of ourselves is in somebody else. It is the most characteristic way in which the psyche knocks on the door and demands integration. This need to become more of what one really is may begin with a sudden attraction. Unlived bits of ourselves may also appear in a rival. Surprisingly, the rival may be more important psychologically than the person over whom one is fighting. But if there has been no pattern of triangles earlier, the eruption of one at midlife may not necessarily imply an unresolved family problem. And if it does, the problem needs to be seen in a larger context.

Triangles which involve unlived life

We now come to the issue of what might really lie beneath the dynamics of triangles - beneath the parental patterns and defences and power-plays and all the other apparently "causal" reasons why triangles enter our lives. I believe there is always an element of unlived life in every triangle, and for various reasons it seems we are sometimes unable to discover that unlived life except through the extreme emotional stress which triangles generate. Betrayal is an archetypal experience which is our chief instrument of maturation. This does not mean that we all need to become embittered cynics. But there is something important in recognising how our fantasies of what we think life and love should be prevent us from growing up and becoming full members of the human family. Betrayal is the means through which these fantasies are punctured and recognised. We attempt to enclose ourselves and other people in our fantasy-world, which is meant to compensate for childhood pain. Since all childhoods have pain, the naive assumptions we carry are also archetypal, and reflect an alternative child-world that resembles Eden in its innocence and fusion-state with the divine parent. The serpent in the Garden is therefore an image of this archetypal role of betrayal, which is inherent in the state of innocence and sooner or later rises up to destroy our fusion.

There is no formula to cope with the pain of betrayal. But an archetypal perspective can help us to look at things differently, although the pain cannot be explained or imagined away. There is no remedy for this kind of pain. But there is a difference between blind pain and pain that is accompanied by understanding. The latter has a transformative effect. When there is no consciousness, triangles do tend to repeat themselves - different characters, same script. Some triangles are truly transformative. They do break apart an old pattern, and the new relationship is genuinely much happier and more rewarding. Or the triangle serves the purpose of freeing energy, freeing inner potentials, and even if the old relationship is re-established, or one winds up with neither party, everything has changed. But we are still ourselves, however much we try to rearrange our outer lives, and if an inner issue has not been dealt with, the same patterns will begin to arise in the new relationship. The compatibility may be greater with another partner, but one must still deal with oneís own psyche.

A triangle can be like a grand trine in a chart. The energy circles around and around; it flows back on itself and does not nourish anything else in oneís life. Within triangles, all three people tend to project elements of themselves on each other. The triangle holds these projections in place, and there may be enormous resistance to change. We might even say that the triangle forms because there is resistance to change, so whatever is seeking expression from within is experienced through projection. When such a triangle breaks up, the projections come back home again. Psychic energy is released, whether it is through death or the voluntary relinquishing of someone. The timing of this is not accidental. In one or two or even all three parties, unconscious issues have finally reached a point where they can be integrated, even if this is expressed by simply letting it go. The moment we are able to do that, the projections begin to become conscious. I do not believe real forgiving comes in any other way. It is a kind of grace. It cannot be created by an act of will. It is very sad to hear the Betrayed saying, "I forgive you," not because it is truly heartfelt, but in order to get the straying partner back again. Underneath there may be no forgiveness at all - although this may not be entirely conscious - and then the punishment can go on and on. Forgiveness can only come out of a recognition of oneís collusion in the triangle - whatever oneís role - and the taking back of oneís projections. Before that, forgiveness is not really possible. It only seems to emerge out of something being genuinely integrated in oneself. The entire process is transformative. We cannot manufacture forgiveness if we have been betrayed - nor can we manufacture it for ourselves if we are the Betrayer. We can only work to integrate what belongs to our own souls.

The Saturnian parent who rejects, and then turns up in a triangle as a cold and rejecting partner, may have something to do with our own need to acquire boundaries. If we view this fundamental Saturnian experience from a more detached perspective, what is rejection, in the end, except someone else drawing boundaries which we find intolerable? It may be our own lack of boundaries that attracts us into a triangle where we are the Betrayed, rejected by a Saturnian partner who says, "I canít stand this emotional claustrophobia. I want to be separate." Or we may be the Betrayer, fleeing from a partner whose emotional needs seem stifling but who secretly mirrors our own inability to cope with loneliness. The hard and painful lessons that come from these kinds of experiences are lessons about what is undeveloped in ourselves. We may have to discover our primal passions if Pluto is in our 10th or 4th. But we may disown this at first, and say, "My mother was terribly manipulative," or, "My father was so controlling." Why do people become manipulative and controlling? If someone is expressing Plutonian qualities in a relationship, they are not doing it because it is fun; they are doing it because the relationship is equated with survival, and there is a desperate need to ensure that the beloved remains close. Pluto is mobilised when one feels under threat. People become manipulative because they are terrified of losing the object of their love. That love object constitutes survival for them, and manipulation seems the only possible way to ensure the continuity of the relationship. We are all capable of this, given the right level of attachment and the right level of threat. If we disown these Plutonian attributes and keep them firmly projected on the parent, Pluto may turn up in a triangle. Then we ourselves may have to discover how possessive we can be. Or we acquire a deeply possessive partner. We may get as far as saying, "Ah, yes, I have chosen someone just like my mother/father." That is a useful piece of insight, but it is only the beginning. This possessive quality in the parent is described by our own 4th or 10th house Pluto. We must still discover it in ourselves. Often we only discover we have a Pluto through the experience of betrayal. It is just a blank in the chart until a triangle unearths it, and then we suddenly find our Pluto for the first time. We discover that we feel passionately, that we need intensely, that desperation can make us treacherous and manipulative, and that control may seem the only way to survive. This process of self-discovery may be a frightening and humbling experience, but it allows us to fully become what we are.

Psychic integration is the teleology of all triangles. Even when the outer planets are involved in parental triangles, the thing to which we are so deeply attached in the parent is really something that belongs to our own souls. This "something" may involve our stretching beyond personal boundaries and allowing a deeper or higher level of reality into our lives, but nevertheless it is connected with our own life journey. When we see astrological symbols which we experience first through the parents and then later through a triangle in which the same experience repeats itself, there is something within us that needs to be lived, and it may keep coming back through triangles until we find a way to live it. Planets which are parental significators in the chart are not only descriptive of parental patterns. They are descriptive of unlived dimensions of ourselves, especially when they do not agree with the rest of the chart. Even if the parent embodies the planet in creative ways, it is still our planet, and belongs to our own destiny. A planet in the 4th or 10th, or in major aspect to the Sun or Moon, may not be enacted obviously by the parent, but it will be part of what we experience through the parent. If the parent has not creatively lived the archetypal pattern symbolised by the planet, it is harder to understand what we are dealing with. And therefore we may not realise what we are meeting through a triangle which appears in our life later. It is not just an unfinished parental complex, although that element may be important to explore. It is ultimately oneís own planet, and therefore something of oneís own soul. It is part of our psychological inheritance, but we must give shape to it. Even triangles which appear screamingly Oedipal also have to do with our own inner lives, because what we love or hate in the parent is something that belongs to us. But we need to find our own way of living it.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-25-2007, 03:38 AM
Mistery Mistery is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

How does synastry work for each indivdual? I mean, synastry is your natal aspects in contact so can the relationship be better for one than the other?

I appreciate everyone weighing in and I would have agreed before that synastry is a good indicator if a relationship would work but now I realize composite must be factored in in the case of an exceptional connections. Perhaps there is a heavily fated component missed in common synasty interpertations, or maybe it's the interpertation that needs to be examined. If that is the case, than what must one look for besides common positive aspects of sun, moon, venus & mars? North & south node? How important are the nodes regarding compatibility?

Last edited by Mistery; 08-25-2007 at 03:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-25-2007, 06:04 AM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Dear SR! Many thanks for that article. I am almost inclined to buy this book of Green, it is really interesting, especially now that most people divorce and not understanding why? I have just scanned the article, will read it, like you, lateron. Will comment on it at a later time.

Mistery, I have to think about this one. I guess you cannot derive from a synastry if the partners, lateron, find out that they need to live out another type of romance. I guess that we just have to look at the synastry between the first and the second couple separately and see how they interact individually. Then maybe we can see what was missing in the first, that is now found in the second synastry, something like that. No idea otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-16-2008, 11:18 PM
kizmetbaby's Avatar
kizmetbaby kizmetbaby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 33
Send a message via AIM to kizmetbaby
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

I have always perceived the difference as being...

Synastry is the effect that you have on one another directly...the things you bring out in each other...

Composite as the effect you have on everyone else as a unit.

I think they both have value...just depends what you're looking for.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-17-2008, 07:47 AM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Yes Kizmetbabe, this is exactly how I look at it, clear way of explaining it. Cheers, Starlink
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-17-2008, 07:55 AM
starlink's Avatar
starlink starlink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in peace
Posts: 6,350
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Unukalhai, About this:
Quote:
In technical terms, a composite chart shows the midpoint of a set of objects. If A has Venus at 0Aries, and B has Venus at 0Taurus, composite Venus would be 15Aries. From this, it becomes apparent the composite chart represents a "middle ground" between the two people, a point of balance, much in the nature of the sign Libra, which is the very art of relating... So we are dealing with the relationship itself.

Would it than not be that the person with an Aries Venus will have a better chance at expressing himself (because of the "middle ground" being in 15° Aries) then the Venus in Taurus person? I think that in composite terms, the latter will have to make the adjustments more so than the Venus in Aries person.
Starlink
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-17-2008, 08:16 AM
Natasha's Avatar
Natasha Natasha is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 375
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Synastry is critical. Composite shows the relationship.
They say you need some good hard Saturn contacts in synastry for the relationship to endure. As far as it goes I would agree.
Maybe its my Libra moon but synastry work has been a great fave of mine over time. Tend to focus of that if someone is asking about their relationship marriage asits the close synastry contacts which really get the relationship rocking or grumping.
I guess the composite is good to look at initially too.
They say transits to the composite can indicate events effecting a relationship .

SO bascially with synasty they say you need some good hard close saturn contact and luminary contacts to get the relationship from fling to big R relationship.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-31-2008, 09:43 PM
FishNChips62's Avatar
FishNChips62 FishNChips62 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 183
Re: Synastry VS. Composite (or are both equally important)

Well, I completely agree with Unukalhai's definition. He says:

Quote:
Simply put, synastry shows the interactions and dynamics between two individuals, but really has little to do with the relationship itself. That is the domain of the composite chart.

Composite charts show the dynamics and nature of the relationship itself once the people have actually started to merge at levels important to the inner self. This doesn't happen until a number of the person's defenses have been lifted, the relationship progressing from the 1st/7th axis to the 2nd/8th axis in astrological terms. The more merged the people become, the closer to functioning as one entity, the more important the composite chart is. When two people are only casually involved or not willing to "let the other in", the composite chart is all but meaningless, as there is no true balancing occurring.

I think synastry shows the effect the other person has on us...what we see in them (for each person), and stuff, right? And then the composite shows how the energies end up working out, so in my opinion, the composite shows the TRUTH about the relationship, because I'm supposing that even if from the synastry it seems capable of being quite romantic (and perhaps one person is..or hoped it would be romantic), how it ends up working in the end (shown by the composite) can be quite different!

This is an example of mine about how this happened to me personally with someone I had a big crush on for the longest time

"Hehe. Do I love him? Well...see it's just not that type of relationship. I see it more as a very caring friendship than anything. I do love him. But not in that way. I am really attracted to him....used to be so much that I was SORT of infatuated with him lollllz (ACtually), sigh. But, the infatuation always goes down once you get to know them and stop idealizing so much, right? That always happens when I have a crush. At first, I idealize him and think of all the ways he probably is and the things he likes and dislikes. But of course, that's just me projecting onto them what I WANT for them to be like, right? lol. But then you get to know them and you learn that you were often way off about the way they *probably* were, and that it's ok for them to be different, because that's them, and you learn that you can accept them for who they are.

For me with him, this process took a lot longer than with, say, another guy I might get a crush on. It's because the emotional intensity that was aroused whenever i would see him, and the very very sexual/erotic element, too. I thought he was really hot! and I never really felt that way about a guy...I mean, good looking, sure...but never really Hot. So, yeah, it took a while to realize that he is a lot more than what I *wanted* or *wished* or *imagined* he would be, get me? lol yeah, lots of words. But yeah, after the infatuation was over, now I just see him as really good friend, pretty much. Someone who I can trust, and talk to. And well, I DO love him. But, not in that way. It's different. I've realized our relationship is actually much more platonic than i used to think it would be. We're more like brother/sister, and less like boyfriend/girlfriend lol. It just feels different."

At first I thought he was the perfect guy for me. I was very romantically attracted to him (our venuses are conjunct, my venus trines his uranus, my MARS conjuncts his Venus, my pluto squares his venus, my mars semi-squares his sun, his sun opposes my uranus, my moon trines his mars, etc). I thought we could build the perfect relationship and saw us being very romantic with each other in the future. These are all things that being around him wihtout having opene up, like unkalhai said, made me feel. That was because of our syynastry. But THEN, after I got to know him, I felt the relationshiop felt much more appropriate being platonic, idealistic, but not romantic in the love boyfriend/girlfriend sense. The Composite chart shows a completely platonic connection. Sure, idealistic, but platonic (meaning only friends, not lovers). This now feels very right. But before having thought about all of this, I was still stuck with the mentality of my mars conjunct his venus for example, "No, he is so attractive to me, I just can't let that go. I want to chase him and be romantic with him, and flirt with him." But now that I know him better, when I see him, it just doesn't feel right to do that. It feels like we are too much brother/sister to do that (even though we are not, or even related). But before having gotten to know him, I probably would've still been stuck in how he affected me and not in how the relationship felt in general...because there was no relationship. Lol.

-DB
__________________
When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
composite, equally, important, synastry

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Venus/Pluto in Synastry and Composite? Venuslure Relational Astrology 103 11-09-2013 10:46 AM
Composite and synastry charts... thoughts? mabmorrigan Relational Astrology 3 11-18-2008 03:57 AM
Synastry and Composite Synthesis postcolonialmetis Relational Astrology 4 05-05-2007 07:51 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2012, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.