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  #1  
Old 06-15-2013, 10:26 PM
melisa melisa is offline
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Borderline Personality Disorder

Hi---
I am curious if there are factors indicating borderline personallity disorder. With the impulsivity, instability of moods and feelings, substance abuse or binge eating, and seeing people in extremes, along with the cutting off and then reuniting of relationships with partner, I would guess:
--Heavy Pluto influences
---Heavy Moon influences
----Moon oppose Pluto, Venus oppose Pluto
---Uranus in harsh aspect to mmoon and 7th house
---Uranus and Moon in harsh aspect to Venus
---Mercury in harsh aspect to Mercury
---Neptune to Venus aspects

Melisa

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Old 06-16-2013, 12:09 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

I think you're on the right track by looking to the complex of symptoms that comprise any specific disorder.

But you may be derailing by trying to pin those symptoms down to one or a few "astrological signatures."

One of the symptoms, among many, that you list for "borderline personality disorder" is impulsiveness...

What if there is a strong emphasis on Aries?
Or a strong and corrupted Mars?
Might Moon-Uranus contacts lead to impulsive behaviors?
There are number of other possibilities for "impulsiveness."
A simple emphasis on Fire signs might show such tendencies....

The point I'm trying to make is that any indicators of "impulsive behavior" should be noted...
And then, if evidence for the other behaviors known to compose the symptomology of a particular "disorder" is found, you might diagnose the condition.

This use of astrology requires that the astrologer be familiar with the symptoms of many disorders.

I wrote a little piece on "accident proneness" that may throw some light on what I mean. Also, there are a couple of threads on "the psychopath" on the forrum that may help you refine your ability to root mental conditions out of the horoscope.

But I think it is a mistake to attempt to peg a certain condition only to one or two "signatures." The symptoms can most often be found in a great number of significations, and such an approach narrows our vision.

A first principle of astrology is "accumulation of evidence." If you find that all the recognized symptoms of a condition are present in a chart -- indicated by any of the many possible significations -- then you have good reason to suspect the presence of the condition.

Training in or study of psychiatry would be helpful.

My other question in this regard is....once you have determined that some condition exists, what are you going to do with the informtion? Are you going to take a VanGogh and "make him all better?" Warn Miss Smith that Mr Jones is a basket case?

Last edited by greybeard; 06-16-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:58 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post
Hi---
I am curious if there are factors indicating borderline personallity disorder. With the impulsivity, instability of moods and feelings, substance abuse or binge eating, and seeing people in extremes, along with the cutting off and then reuniting of relationships with partner, I would guess:
--Heavy Pluto influences
---Heavy Moon influences
----Moon oppose Pluto, Venus oppose Pluto
---Uranus in harsh aspect to mmoon and 7th house
---Uranus and Moon in harsh aspect to Venus
---Mercury in harsh aspect to Mercury
---Neptune to Venus aspects

Melisa
Hi Melisa. Just my own opinion. I have a highly aspected Pluto and Sun C Pluto and a Quindecile (exact) Sun/Moon. I have also begun work on my Masters in Mental Health counseling.

Personally, and because I have such heavy Plutonian aspects, I would not Denote Pluto with Borderline specifically. Here's why:

Pluto for me, operates in my chart in a way where I have a significant amount of Pride (not a good thing, obviously) and I'm emotionally guarded. I'd rather chop off my own arm then let someone know they have hurt me and I definitely wouldn't make a production out of it. That would never ever happen. I do not like to be emotionally vulnerable and an Aquarian ex boyfriend of mine called me emotionally unavailable. Not that I am, I just don't show my own very well. It's embarrassing. So, I cannot ever imagine creating more trouble and drama for those around me. I like to be viewed as someone that always retains control of myself in any situation and I don't go to others with my problems. But everyone comes to me with their problems and for advice.

I don't think Uranus would do that either but for different reasons than Pluto.

A mercury in detriment might be difficult to deal with and even a detrimented Mars.

I think Neptune might be a more logical player in Borderline. And maybe with other psychological issues. A troubled Neptune is trouble for that soul and everyone around it.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:00 PM
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Cool Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post
Hi---
I am curious if there are factors indicating borderline personallity disorder. With the impulsivity, instability of moods and feelings, substance abuse or binge eating, and seeing people in extremes, along with the cutting off and then reuniting of relationships with partner, I would guess:
--Heavy Pluto influences
---Heavy Moon influences
----Moon oppose Pluto, Venus oppose Pluto
---Uranus in harsh aspect to mmoon and 7th house
---Uranus and Moon in harsh aspect to Venus
---Mercury in harsh aspect to Mercury
---Neptune to Venus aspects

Melisa
Ok my dad has boarder-line personality disorder ill look at his chart for these indicators.

Venus in Scorpio-Moon in Taurus-Pluto in Leo T-Square
Moon in the 7th... Though it doesn't aspect Uranus
Mercury opposed Uranus

So far your theory is working
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:03 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Post the chart...

I have a hunch that the term "borderline Personality disorder" is a catch-all for a variety of conditions, not all the same. In DSM-I (1952) the term refers to cases in which the personality, in its struggle for adjustment to internal and external stresses, uses primarily patterns of action or behavior rather than symptoms in the mental, somatic or emotional spheres. There is little sense of distress. Using this definition, DSM-I classifies three main groups of personality disorder, with many sub-species, including such things as schizoid personality, paranoid personality, cyclothymic personality, passive-aggressive personality, compulsive personality, sexual deviation, addiction....

So there are two problems with using that term: 1. It is far too general and inclusive, and 2. It is not quite clear where the disorder begins and normal behavior ends. How can we expect the horoscope to specifiy the unspecified?

Question: How many normal people do you know who are entirely balanced, self-integrated, completely normal in their behavior, with the world on a string? The only one I know looks out at me from the mirror when I'm shaving... Now that guy has his act together; as for the rest of you, consult with your local priest or therapist.

You MUST work from the whole chart if you want to accomplish or learn anything. Isolated "signatures", while having some validity, just won't do the job.

Consider that each and every horoscope is UNIQUE. Therefore, the astrological indications of a psychological complex "shared" by a relatively large number of people will be different. What should be the same is the declaration of the symptoms congruent with or defining the complex.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:42 AM
melisa melisa is offline
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Hi
Borderline personality disorder is not a general term, it is a specific disorder----people are diagnosed with it if they meet at least 5 out of 9 criteria.
Yes each horoscope is unique. Yet for certain disorders there may be planet placements or aspects that influence the symptoms of the disorder. I have heard, for example, that there is a large number of Neptune aspects to Mars and Mercury in many (not all) substance abusers. So I am curious whether this is true in the case of borderline personality disorder.

Melisa
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:48 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Certainly there are placements and aspects that indicate this, that or the other.

Let's say that Neptune squares Mars in 65% of the horoscopes of drug users. That's a statistically significant percentage. It means 2 out of 3 drug users have Mars square Neptune (this is not astrological fact).

BUT

The 2:1 ratio in drug users makes no reference whatsoever to the total number of persons having that aspect. Not only do 1/3 of drug users lack the aspect (some other astrologicial factor must be involved), and we as astrologers, looking for Mars sq. Neptune as the "drug user signature" fail to find 1/3 of the drug users. Furthermore, we may "incriminate" an unknown percentage of people with the aspect but without the fatal attraction to drugs.

Not very reliable in my opinion.

However, with or without such a signature aspect, it is highly likely that a close study of the whole chart will reveal psychological characteristics that tend toward drug use.

Try this.

Take 6 or 8 famous murderers....Charles Manson, The guy at the school (take your pick), the famous cannibals and sexual killers.....

Study their charts carefully. Report to us on the "signature aspects or placements" of these killers...something each and every one shares with all the others (or with a significant percentage of them.) Now, having found this silver bullet (I doubt that you will), the next step is to find an equal number of charts in which the "signature" is present, but the natives were not killers.

Can you please describe the symptomology of borderline personality disorder? What are its symptoms and effects. What are the 9 criteria that define its presence? Can it be any 5?

Of the 9 criteria (or the 5), do you think all of them will be signified by one placement/aspect? If not 1 placement, then how many are needed to diagnose the disorder astrologically? Is the signature a sure marker in all cases, or are there exceptions? That is, do a significant number of people have the signatures but not the disorder?

In my experience, the presence of signatures indicates a potential or possibility for some certain type of event or condition, but is by no means a sure marker for that thing unless it is strongly supported by other symbols. Which leads us back to "You must read the chart as a whole."

Last edited by greybeard; 06-20-2013 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:39 PM
melisa melisa is offline
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Hi--
Here are the criteria for borderline pers disorder you requested, from the DSM---
  1. <LI class=body12>Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5). <LI class=body12>A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is called "splitting." <LI class=body12>Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. <LI class=body12>Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5). <LI class=body12>Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.
    <LI class=body12>Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
    <LI class=body12>Chronic feelings of emptiness.
    <LI class=body12>Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
  2. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
Re: borderlines, yes in answer to your question it can be any of the 5 criteria. I am asking about whether people have seen cases or studies of signatures related to borderline personality, as there have been with other pseronality and behavioral issues.

Re: your thoughts about charts of murderers, I doubt if any astrologer (or anyone else) would say that the chart is the sole indicator of psychiatric distress or criminal behavior. The chart may be combined with upbringing, culture, and various environmental factors. Even with strong indicators (the case of Neptune aspects and substance abusers) there are exceptions.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:37 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Which DSM? DSM-1 in 1952, or the current version, DSM-5?
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:18 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Let's see:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
How about a Venus (relationship, union) or Moon (nurture, protection) in poor condition and especially if menaced by Pluto or Martial influences? Pluto of himself is rejection, abandonment, isolation, "outsider-ness". If Moon-Neptune (fantasy, disattachment from reality) is so posited that the implications reflect solitude, being unwanted, etc., this could qualify. How about some of the things implied by old Saturn? Low self-esteem can lead to feelings of "nobody wants me;" Saturn in the 12th can mean "absence of the father," which in some cases can lead to the same thing.
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
Unstable and intense relationships....How would Venus-Uranus do? Can you think of other possible signatures describing this sort of thing? I can.
...extremes of idealization and devaluation....Neptune (for example, square Saturn). Dual signs. Emphasis on Libra (famous for fence-sitting). The Moon (all things tidal in nature...ups and downs, comings and goings) in bad condition and perhaps in hard aspect to Venus (values and ideals; what we appreciate or are repulsed by.) Mercury is ambiguous, and in the right sign/house or right aspect might show something along these lines. This ambiguous view of relationships (or the people involved in them) probably spills over into all of life -- so any position/aspect that shows this sort of ambiguous, dichotomous character would contribute to the condition.

3. Identity disturbance. Afflictions to Ascendant, its ruler, Sun or Moon. Moon or Neptune at the Ascendant. Signs of extreme "empathy" (heightened sensitivity to feelings of others, to the point of confusing self/other.....not so uncommon.) Disjunct planets. Lots of other things.

4. Impulsivity. A powerful Mars, afflicted (maybe by Uranus, Venus, Neptune, Moon.........) A strongly emphasized Aries. A strong and unstable Moon. Any symbol of excess, such as a poorly conditioned Jupiter, or indications of unbridled or compulsive appetite. Possibly indications of "childishness", one of whose characteristics is impulsivity.

And so on down the list. One can surely find a half dozen different indicators for each of the 9 criteria. This is why I suggest that the astrologer will be most likely to succeed at diagnosing such conditions by looking for indications of the symptoms -- whatever the astrological indicator may be -- rather than seeking out some single "significator".

Neptune is a good indicator of substance abuse. But there are exceptions.....hmm. So Neptune is not an iron-clad signature. Funny how before Neptune there was the Moon and Venus....and didn't Lilly and his friends mention other planets in regard to "drunkeness" (substance abuse)? Al Biruni associates the 8th House with evil effects of drugs, Mars, Moon, Venus, Saturn all pointed out in cases of drunkeness by the 17th century English astrologers. But these planets indicate such a condition only if they are determined toward it by afflictions, sign positions and so on.

Therein lies the rub with cookbook signatures.

I guess the symptoms of BPD are the same as the effects. I find that the listed symptoms, by and large, seem more or less "unrelated" as far as their form of expression goes (e.g., "impulsivity" vs. "abandonment"), yet some are related ("suicidal behavior" vs. "feelings of emptiness")...so, some indicators might show more than one of the symptoms, while other symptoms would probably require a separate significator.

I find it interesting (off topic, but...) that most people insist that man has Free Will, and at the same time accept that psychological conditions such as this one (which affects our entire life) are involuntary and beyond our control.

If astrology is not consistently reliable....if it sometimes gets it right, sometimes not....and if the environment plays such a large (and horoscopically undefined) role in creating us, then I question the utility of astrology. Personally, my years of studying charts and people leads me to believe the horoscope does determine our lives -- including the environmental factors (within reasonable degree). If the horoscope fails to accurately portray an individual and his/her life, it is my fault, not the horoscope's.

The relatively simple thing called borderline personality disorder underlines our difficulty as astrologers. Life is long, the human being so extraordinarily complex, and our own understanding so limited..... Heck, the weatherman does well to get the weather right 5 days in advance.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-20-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:55 PM
melisa melisa is offline
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Zarathu---
The description is from the current DSM.
Greybeard wrote---
If astrology is not consistently reliable....if it sometimes gets it right, sometimes not....and if the environment plays such a large (and horoscopically undefined) role in creating us, then I question the utility of astrology. Personally, my years of studying charts and people leads me to believe the horoscope does determine our lives -- including the environmental factors (within reasonable degree). If the horoscope fails to accurately portray an individual and his/her life, it is my fault, not the horoscope's.

-----By "environmental factors" do you mean the type of job one has, whether mother was absent or abusive, etc? To further complicate things, there is the issue of biology (some personality traits and disorders have a genetic, biological basis). Though some would say this too is reflected in peoples' charts.
---Yes, the possibilities you mentioned could point towards borderline personality. I would add to "frantic efforts to avoid abandonment" Mercury in hard aspect to Uranus, or an afflicted 7th. To "unstable and intense personal relations/extremes of idealization and devaluation" I would add Venus-Pluto, or Mercury-Pluto-7th aspects.

Melisa
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:55 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

My "listing" was not meant to be comprehensive, but to point out that many positions and aspects can lead to the symptoms (criteria) for this or any disorder or general condition.

Regarding "environment," it could be a job (the type of work we perform has a deep effect on our percepts of the world), an absent mother, birth into wealth and privilege......

The horoscope can be taken as a sort of map of our DNA. It shows our inherited or innate characteristics, strengths and weaknesses, inclinations and tendencies. It is true that the essential self interacts with the environment...but of course the houses show our "surrounding circumstances." In other words, the general nature of our environment as well as the way we are apt to interact with it is described in the chart.

For example, a chart may show a "strict and harsh father." This is environmental. It may show us pursuing a certain type of employment, again an environmental factor. The horoscope does not fling us naked into some random environment. Our "accidents" in life are part and parcel of the necessary ingredients to make us what we are, and what we will become, and they are shown in the chart.

Naturally, there are unknown and unpredictable elements in the (or not in the chart) chart too....but the general outlines of "the environmental factors affecting the life" are shown.
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:38 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

BPD is very plutonian in my opinion, because its about extremes.
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:40 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

REad the Egg Shells book. Its all about being a victim and thinking that you are victimized by everyone.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:55 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and several other books on borderline personality disorder. Most people with BPD may feel victimized (and many have been), but they also disrupt and victimize others. They fear abandonment, so they in turn abandon others as a safety defense mechanism. They go to extremes in thoughts and feelings (leading to my idea that Pluto may be a heavy influence in charts), and have erratic, unstable emotions as well as on-again off-again relationships (my idea that Moon-Uranus connections or Uranus-7th house possibly). They have issues around attachment---wanting it but fearing it (moon-saturn connections?)

Melisa
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:59 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by melisa View Post
I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and several other books on borderline personality disorder. Most people with BPD may feel victimized (and many have been), but they also disrupt and victimize others. They fear abandonment, so they in turn abandon others as a safety defense mechanism. They go to extremes in thoughts and feelings (leading to my idea that Pluto may be a heavy influence in charts), and have erratic, unstable emotions as well as on-again off-again relationships (my idea that Moon-Uranus connections or Uranus-7th house possibly). They have issues around attachment---wanting it but fearing it (moon-saturn connections?)

Melisa
I have 10 asteroids of victim hood. In all the real BPD individuals these asteroids are very prominently aspecting all of the planets in the chart.

I have a very close relative with BPD. It is very very difficult.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:54 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Can you tell us what the 10 asteroids of victim hood are?

Melisa
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:12 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

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I have 10 asteroids of victim hood. In all the real BPD individuals these asteroids are very prominently aspecting all of the planets in the chart.

I have a very close relative with BPD. It is very very difficult.
I am sharing the chart of a female family member that was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder while receiving treatment for mental health issues.

During the course of her treatment that diagnosis was confirmed by two other doctors. She has since stopped treatment by her own choice.

I'm interested in the asteroids that you mentioned as well, just to see how they interact within her chart.

She had little contact with her Father up until adulthood. Her parents separated before she was 3 years old. However, her Mother went on to marry five additional times prior to this young woman reaching puberty (age 13).

I'm watching her progressed chart and her solar arcs right now (also the upcoming solar eclipse on 03 November 2013, which will be in her first house, although I'm not sure how to interpret the possible manifestations).

(Solar arc directions---between 30 OCT and 3 NOV this year, she has Solar arc mars reach exact square 0.00 to her natal Saturn). Additionally she has Solar Arc Midheaven in applying square to natal Uranus (will reach exact in July of 2014). Before the Solar Arc MC square natal Uranus reaches exact square in July 2014 she has a Solar Arc Pluto applying square to natal MC.---a *lot* of things going on there).

She's currently showing signs of possibly going into a crisis and I'm watching her chart closely to see what aspects are involved building up to the next crisis or how they correspond with her behaviors. I have to admit I'm concerned about her behavior at this time but she is an adult and there is little that can be done.

VGR astro.jpg

She is very impulsive. Would love to hear your thoughts on her chart.

Last edited by astrokat; 08-25-2013 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:06 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

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Originally Posted by astrokat View Post
I am sharing the chart of a female family member that was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder while receiving treatment for mental health issues........
The chart of your person has extremely tight connections of asteroids of BPD to all the planets and point positions in the chart.

She has no mutual receptions to get her out of the circumstances, Mercury is in a critical degree, The MOON and Uranus are out of bounds by declination.

While you cannot diagnose a person as BPD using an astrological chart, if you could, this person would have it or something victim-thinking disorder like it.
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:10 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Zarathu,

Could you list the asteroids of BPD for learning sake? Like the other posters, I would be interested in this information as well. Thank you!

Vista


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
The chart of your person has extremely tight connections of asteroids of BPD to all the planets and point positions in the chart.

She has no mutual receptions to get her out of the circumstances, Mercury is in a critical degree, The MOON and Uranus are out of bounds by declination.

While you cannot diagnose a person as BPD using an astrological chart, if you could, this person would have it or something victim-thinking disorder like it.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:46 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Hello astrokat,

Happy birthday to the horoscope owner !

I'm going to dig deep, and come to the point.
Using my midpoint method.

ASTRO-ID: Sun angular, Mars angular, Moon-Pluto close orb, Jupiter oriental.

Sun/Moon/Mars/Jupiter/Pluto Emotional rage y impulsivity which has to be overcome for big success.

Sun/Moon=Mars !!! (ASTRO ID match) Motivation for activities, the male sex, action and speed, fighting. A vocation in which you can be active, energetic, productive, the initiative taker.

Sun/Mars=Jupiter/Pluto (ASTRO ID match) A tremendously powerful self-expression and ego. Fighting with anyone who does not respect you as god almighty. But also many creative energy in order to be successful.

Sun/Mars=MC A vocation regarding creative activities. For which you must have physical energy. Where your creative activities can shine by physical motion.

Sun/Jupiter=……No mentionable match found.

Sun/Pluto= Saturn (orb0.04) Strong physical shape. Power struggles with parents, being abused and/ or abusing towards them. Will have more power when you get older.
Sun/Pluto=Jupiter/Neptune=Saturn The same as described above with the addition of many victims and that an intervention from benefactors such as religion, charity or social work is needed.
Sun/Pluto=Venus/Jupiter=Saturn Physically all mighty gorgeous beautiful shaped.
Sun/Pluto=Venus/Saturn Physically attractive shaped face with a magical charisma and penetrating eyes. Father also attractive but violent, jealous when divorcing. “Beauty and the beast relationships”. Violence and jealousy in relationship problems.

Moon/Mars=Sun/Venus A woman who is active in cleaning up, beautifying, decorating and driven by hot passionate love making. Very passionate marriage ?
Moon/Mars=Sun/Neptune Active caring and housekeeping will give her self-esteem. Shines when she provides care for the sick, disabled and animals. What physical health concerns she should beware of emotional stress. Smoking is bad for the heart as well as alcohol, drugs and unhealthy eating habits also upset the stomach. Marriage with an addict ?
Moon/Mars=Mercury/Mars Assertive in taking care. Putting a lot of energy in the care of family and household.
Moon/Mars=Sun/Saturn Domestic dispute and difficulties with strict father. Marriage with a tough guy ?

Moon/Jupiter=Uranus (orb0.10) Fluctuating emotional condition. Many changes and major tensions in the family. Lighting and thunder in the family.
Moon/Jupiter=Mercury An outgoing, spontaneous woman. Helpful and caring with words and hands.
Moon/Jupiter=Mercury/Uranus (repeatedly) An outgoing spontaneous woman, liberated and straightforward.
Moon/Jupiter=Mercury/Jupiter=Uranus The unrestrained way of emotional communicating causes shocks reminiscent of hysteria.

Moon/Pluto=Mercury/Pluto An emotionally profound mind. A violent, explosive way of expressing emotions. (Emotional abuse by mother?)
Moon/Pluto=MC An inborn skill to transform profound emotions. A vocation that requires intense care and emotional profundity.

Mars/Jupiter=…… No mentionable match found.

Mars/Pluto=Sun/North node Violence, abuse (in teenage years?) in the family life, impact your physical and mental health, and forces you to express your rage with brute force. Criminal family life.

Jupiter/Pluto=Sun/Mars (ASTRO ID match) (repeatedly) A very energetic personality with enormous vigorous magnetism and an almighty vitality, healing powers and powerful creative abilities.

Jupiter/Pluto=MC You can become very successful in your vocation. An enormous transformation regarding your vocation. You will get professional help, that will totally change you.
****************************************
Sun/Moon=Mars !!! (ASTRO ID match)(repeatedly) Motivation for activities, the male sex, action and speed, fighting. A vocation in which you can be active, energetic, productive, the initiative taker.

Asc/MC=Sun Project your identity as a shining and healthy personality. Radiate self-confidence. Be creative.

Asc=Venus/Neptune You distinguish your personality as a victim in relationships.
You distinguish your personality as an artist, glamour model etc. with luxurious style.
Asc=Saturn/Neptune You distinguish your identity as an authority in the field of aesthetics.
And what you are probably also doing; but what you must not do is distinguish your identity as someone who is suffering a disability, depression or is a victim. Do not do that, stop pretending! … You can better distinguish yourself as someone who helps people that are suffering from poverty, disease or otherwise are victims of real life.
Asc=Venus/Saturn You are beautiful shaped. Can be hard on yourself regarding relationships and beauty ideal. You distinguish yourself as someone who has suffered in relations.

MC=Sun/Mars (repeatedly) A vocation regarding creative activities.For which you must have physical energy. Where your creative activities can shine by physical motion.
MC=Jupiter/Pluto (repeatedly) You can become very successful in your vocation. An enormous transformation regarding your vocation. You will get professional help, that will totally change you.
MC=Moon/Pluto (repeatedly) An inborn skill to transform profound emotions. A vocation that requires intense care and emotional profundity.
MC=Uranus/PlutoSkill to dig deep into the occult. Skill to make profound changes.
MC=Mercury/PlutoSkill to think deeply and to investigate. Psychological skills. Skill for analytical writing and thinking.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:52 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Even without asteroids this chart is troubled.

Look at that massive t-square with Mercury, in the last degree, at the focus. It goes on from there....
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:59 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

In regard to mental illness.

In term of Planets, I had a think about any planet in very debilitated condition can all manifest that way. In term of sign, I agree with the Pisces theory for borderline personality disorder. For health it is always related to the 6th house, for mental illness in particular should also consider 3rd, and 12th house also.

At the end, the whole chart needs to be look at. For health related problem since the person lives with it Every Single Day, in his natal chart it will make a big statement as a whole. And the symptoms will operate in all levels of a person's life, from family life to education, to work, to relationship to sleeping to eating etc etc. Overall, you will see the person suffered from the debilitated energy of Planets and Houses. Moon nodes obvious can show some ideas as well.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:03 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

I just looked at another chart today regarding to 3rd November Solar Eclipse 2013. The natal planets placement and houses are shocking similar. It is the same person's chart?
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:39 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
I just looked at another chart today regarding to 3rd November Solar Eclipse 2013. The natal planets placement and houses are shocking similar. It is the same person's chart?

Yes Poyi. This is the same chart that I added to my son's thread. His is the chart that had the beneficial but life changing manifestations from the solar eclipse last November.

This is my step-daughter and she was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Unfortunately, I wasn't afforded an opportunity to have a relationship with her until she was old enough to leave her maternal home. We were able to meet and connect in April of 2011. She was in crisis and homeless, I brought her into my home but she decided not to stay with me. Her Father was not in the USA at the time and did not return until long after she had left our home. There was no animosity between us---her thinking was too erratic and she felt she had to move on...when she left. I'm very concerned for her health and welfare.

However, because of that lack of relationship I have an easier time in reading her chart than I do my own biological children. It seems I'm not so ,to be blunt, blinded by maternal love.

A side note: For those that are interested in her chart for mental health purposes: She has had "transient psychosis" episodes in the past (Nov 2010 - Jan 2011). In the small collection of natal charts that I have---hers is the most challenged. In fact, I have a chart of a diagnosed Paranoid Schizophrenic as well and his isn't as challenged as hers!

Last edited by astrokat; 08-25-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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