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Old 05-30-2013, 04:34 AM
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Arrow Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

Hi everyone,

I have been studying astrology for about 4 years now ...and recently i started studying the Law of Attraction...

Astrology is based on a predetermined blueprint (your natal chart) for your life. (FATE)

Law of Attraction is based on the principle that you have control over your own destiny. (FREE WILL)

I know it is a loaded question, but which one is correct? To what extent can you change your own destiny that is set out for you by astrology? I know in vedic astrology they say that 75% is fate and 25% is under your control / how you react to certain situations.

I love astrology, but since I have been studying the LOA...i feel very conflicted.

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Old 05-30-2013, 06:49 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

My take is that unless you are aware and awake life tends to happen to you and you call it fate. We do have free will and can make choices especially the more we know ourselves and astrology can help do that. The more enlightened we become the more we take advantage of our good aspects and can deal with the not so good ones that promote growth and understanding. There are some things that are fated but not all and it is how we deal with that, constitutes free will.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:10 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

I think astrology serves a simple purpose of a giving people general guidelines about the type of person they are and how they approach life.

But I don't think people should let it consume their life decisions.

People make many choices every day. To me, fate is a concept that no matter what choice you make the outcome will be the same. Everyone faces situations like that occasionally, but by far and away people lead the lives they do because of the choices they make everyday.

A person's will is as strong as they allow it to be. In most cases, a person's dreams are in his/her hands.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:15 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

Study lives, biographies.

In doing so you will note that people always live out their horoscopes, with or without knowledge of astrology.

Start with the Big Bang. The universe evolves, changes with time.

Life begins on a small blue planet at the center of the universe, its roots in an ancient star that became a supernova in the moment of its destruction. The small blue planet ha companions, all of them in orbit around an average star in the outer regions of a barred spiral galaxy. The planets follow orbits dictated by the Laws of the Universe, whch are in force throughout the whole of the universe, everywhere, always.

Nothing that mankind has ever observed in the vast reaches of space, including the space under his nose, or the vast reaches of time, from the now to the most distant known stars -- now seen as they were nearly 13 billion year ago, their ancient light having traveled toward us for all those eons -- has or had free will.

But now, Jamie, a creature evolves from the apes that appeared, without their consent, some 30 million years ago. And this creature, Jamie, unlike anything else in the whole universe, possesses a gift. The creature calls it Free Will. Sweet dreams, Jamie.

Being is of its very nature paradoxical. It is only the interplay of opposites that creates and permits Manifestation, or Being. I am. If I am, then I am paradox. I am This, I am That, I am neither and I am both. I am that I am.

There are things beyond our knowing. We are a Mystery unto ourselves.

What if...? What if you live every day as if you do have Free Will. Perhaps it is only an illusion, but you will be happy believing you are Captain of your ship. Even if what seems to be Free Will is in fact Fate. Spinoza said that every cause has a prior cause, leading back to a First Cause. The ancient Hebrew Yhwh means First Cause.

TWo thousand years ago a man facing his imminent death said to the Power that created him, "Let thy will, not mine, be done." Is there wisdom in that?

Most of what we do is controlled by the unconscious mind. Carl Jung said that as long as our actions spring from the unconcious, we are ruled by Fate. Full Consciousness alone will free us from Fate. Jesus said that narrow is the way and strait is the gate, and few there be that find it. The Hindu sages say the same. In the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna (the human) asks of Krishna (the God), "What power is it, Krishna, that drives man to act sinfully, even unwillingly, as if powerlessly?"

I have been a student of astrology for over 40 years now. I'm in my 8th decade of life, and have lived most things a human being can live. Every horoscope/life I have studied...those of others and of myself...shows me that we all live out our horoscope, our Fate or Destiny, as it is written in the stars. Some 30 years ago, walking in the woods one day, I realized (that undeniable Inner Reallization) that I am nothing more than a puppet on a string. I do not hold the string. And in that moment, in the light of that realization I became Free. Paradox -- in puppethood I found Liberation.

I'm an old cab driiver. I used to take a lady to her dialysis sessions. She had owned her own business, sold it, made a small fortune and thought to herself that she was now independent with the resources to enjoy the rest of her life in comfort. Three years later her kidneys failed, she became a pauper and a slave to a machine. Your power is not what you think it is.

For myself, I live every moment as though I possess that unique and magical human gift, Free Will, all the time knowing I am a puppet. I know I have Power of Choice...but it can't be otherwise...I must Choose. I am constrained to do so by my nature.

Ain't paradox fun?

Here's what I do, take it for what it's worth. I smile and wag my tail. I say thank you for getting to see another sunrise. I am kind to little children, and bugs. I am happy. I am, and that's enough for me.

Last edited by greybeard; 05-30-2013 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:46 PM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrology02 View Post
Hi everyone,

I have been studying astrology for about 4 years now ...and recently i started studying the Law of Attraction...

Astrology is based on a predetermined blueprint (your natal chart) for your life. (FATE)

Law of Attraction is based on the principle that you have control over your own destiny. (FREE WILL)


I know it is a loaded question, but which one is correct? To what extent can you change your own destiny that is set out for you by astrology? I know in vedic astrology they say that 75% is fate and 25% is under your control / how you react to certain situations.

I love astrology, but since I have been studying the LOA...i feel very conflicted
.
Obviously, 'free will' is limited – which raises the question, 'What exactly IS Free Will?'

For example, humans cannot fly unless enclosed in a plane, helicopter or similar craft.

None can change the color of their eyes

– although possible to wear contact lenses, those only TEMPORARILY 'CHANGE' eye color

BUT 'free will' cannot physically change eye color.

No-one can use solely 'free will' to win an Olympic gold medal for running UNLESS that person ALREADY HAS at the very least the physical capacity/potential

Traditional astrologers do use techniques involving the First House planetary connections to describe for example: '...LIFE, VITALITY AND HEALTH. STATURE, COLOUR, COMPLEXION, FORM AND SHAPE OF BODY. Older sources note its influence upon the intellect, the way the mind works, and speech.

In general, the first house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression. AS WELL AS DESCRIBING THE PHYSICAL APPEARANCE, the condition of this house and that of its planetary ruler indicates the level of personal vitality and strength....' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html


'Free Will' cannot 'change/alter' physical characteristics such as height, eye color, fingerprints.

There is of course plastic surgery but that has its limitations.



ASTRA INCLINANT NON NECESSITANT..... Is Latin for : "THE STARS INCLINE, they DO NOT DETERMINE"

btw There's a thread discussion on the theme of 'Law of Attraction' versus 'Destiny' at:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...271#post424271 'How Much Control Do We Have In Our Lives'
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On one end you have the law of attraction on the other you have total acceptance and emptiness. Can we really control our destiny? Can we really get whatever we 'want'? Or do can we only plant the seeds and not know when they will grow or what they will grow into?
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:46 PM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

"Fate rules the world; all things stand fixed by its immutable laws.
And the long ages are assigned a predestined course of events.
At birth our death is sealed, and our end is consequent upon our beginning.
Fate is the source of riches and kingdoms, and the more frequent poverty.
By fate are men, at birth, given their skills and characters,
their merits and defects, their losses and gains.
No one can renounce what is bestowed, or possess what is denied.
No man, by prayer, may seize fortune if it demur, or escape if it draw nigh.
Each one must bear his appointed lot."

Marcus Manilius, 1st century Roman poet-astrologer, author of Astronomica, the oldest surviving text on classical Hellenistic astrology.


Judging from this passage, Manilius seems to incline more toward the stars compelling, less toward inclining. But then, perhaps he was compelled to so incline, for as Johannes Kepler said, "A most unfailing experience ... of the excitement of sublunary natures by the conjunctions and aspects of the planets has instructed and compelled my unwilling belief."

Kepler, as we know, was the "Royal Mathematician" (court astrologer) to the Holy Roman Emperor, Rudolf. He had been casting and interpreting horoscopes since his school days. His was also the mind that discovered the Laws of Planetary Orbits, which marked the beginning of the Age of Science. In 1625 he rectified and re-interpreted the horoscope of Wallenstein, and predicted the man's death in 1633. Death occurred within a few weeks of the predicted time, by assassination. The event we call death seems to be more the outcome of compulsion than of inclination: few of us are inclined toward death.

Last edited by greybeard; 05-30-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:17 PM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
"Fate rules the world; all things stand fixed by its immutable laws.
And the long ages are assigned a predestined course of events.
At birth our death is sealed, and our end is consequent upon our beginning.
Fate is the source of riches and kingdoms, and the more frequent poverty.
By fate are men, at birth, given their skills and characters,
their merits and defects, their losses and gains.
No one can renounce what is bestowed, or possess what is denied.
No man, by prayer, may seize fortune if it demur, or escape if it draw nigh.
Each one must bear his appointed lot."

Marcus Manilius, 1st century Roman poet-astrologer, author of Astronomica, the oldest surviving text on classical Hellenistic astrology.


Judging from this passage, Manilius seems to incline more toward the stars compelling, less toward inclining. But then, perhaps he was compelled to so incline, for as Johannes Kepler said, "A most unfailing experience ... of the excitement of sublunary natures by the conjunctions and aspects of the planets has instructed and compelled my unwilling belief."

Kepler, as we know, was the "Royal Mathematician" (court astrologer) to the Holy Roman Emperor, Rudolf. He had been casting and interpreting horoscopes since his school days. His was also the mind that discovered the Laws of Planetary Orbits, which marked the beginning of the Age of Science.

'… Author of 'ASTRONOMICON' is neither quoted nor mentioned by any ancient writer. His name is uncertain, but was probably Marcus Manilius - in earlier books the author is anonymous, later books give Manilius, Manlius, Mallius.

The poem itself implies that the writer lived under Augustus or Tiberius, and was a citizen of and resident in Rome. According to early 1700s classicist, Richard Bentley he was an Asiatic Greek; according to the 19th-century classicist Fridericus Jacob an African.

Marcus Manilius' work is one of great learning and generally represents the most advanced views of the ancients on astronomy and/or astrology....'


'….Manilius frequently imitates Lucretius, whom he resembles in earnestness and originality and in the power of enlivening the dry bones of his subject. Although his diction presents some peculiarities, the style is metrically correct.

The astrological systems of houses, linking human affairs with the circuit of the zodiac, have evolved over the centuries, but they make their first appearance in Astronomicon. Julius Firmicus Maternus, who wrote in the time of Constantine, exhibits so many points of resemblance with the work of Manilius that he must either have used him or have followed some work that Manilius also followed....'


'...Two manuscripts of Astronomicon made in 10th and 11th centuries lay hidden in monasteries at Gembloux in Brabant (now in Brussels) and another is currently in the library at Leipzig. The unknown text was rediscovered by the humanist Poggio Bracciolini somewhere not very far from Constance, during a break in the sessions of the Council of Constance that he was attending, in 1416 or 1417. The editio princeps of Astronomicon was prepared by the astronomer Regiomontanus, using very corrupted manuscripts, and published in Nuremberg about 1473. The first full length monograph in English on Manilius appeared 2009....'


THERE'S A FREE E-BOOK AVAILABLE 'ASTRONOMICA' by ancient astrologer Marcus Manilius - Download NOW M. Manilivs Astronomica1-2 This is a digital copy of a book that was preserved for generations on library shelves before it was carefully scanned by Google
http://ebookbrowse.com/ma/manilius
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:24 PM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

I believe not.

We attract experiences determined by imprints on our consciousness

If something significantly changes those imprints/patterns, then that's a type of fortune.

When one escapes from life long misery into a more positive mode for example.

And whatever the vehicle for that change may be; a teaching, a realisation, a person, etc.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:18 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

The question of fate vs. choice. To me the simplified version on the macro level is this: if I was born a human, and not a leopard, then my fate is that of a human and not a leopard. I could tattoo myself with spots, but that does not make me a leopard. Then on the micro level is this: if I was a blond, then I can’t will myself with black hair, I can of course dye it black, but the karmic implication of this “will” is the fact I can’t therefore leave the dependency on chemicals, I can’t kick my heels and take a trip to the Sahara for six month and maintain that “willed” head of black hair as if I own it. Without acceptance, there isn’t freedom. However, I can cut my blond hair anyway I want, not a single thing can stop me from THAT will. I’ve read somewhere that when people do not have the power to choose on what is “important”, then they need to exercise that control on lesser details. Like the way the pencils are arranged. This all sounds pretty bad, like we are powerless in things… I no longer feel that way. It is human nature, the laws of cosmos are infinite, this means the “importance” is infinite, there is no end or limit to the importance of cosmic reality, we are simply the creation and not the creator on that chain of command. So the details do start somewhere, because on that detailed level, we do have free will. If I’m a short person, then on the road I would find a narrower crossing of a gap, therefore embark on an entirely different journey than someone who is tall and crossed elsewhere, but that does not stop me from WALKING my journey, that journey is my freedom. The worst thing I can ever do to myself is stuck on that wide crossing and cursing my short legs and hoping people with long ones would fall in the ditch. Acceptance is freedom. So find ourselves is more importance than anything else, find him/her, then you can love him/her, accept him/her. Life is lived that way.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:48 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

THANK YOU everyone for your replies....definitely different viewpoints for me to consider
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:53 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

here is an interesting article i found: Astrology vs. Law of Attraction

http://www.falconastrology.com/astro_loa.htm

one thing was that they say astrology is the law of attraction in action. Astrology (our natal chart) forms unconscious thought patterns that dictate our thought patterns.


1. Astrology is LOA in action

We aren't the way we are because of our birth data. Turn it around. We are born at a particular time because of who we are. We don't come here with a clean slate. We have core values, beliefs, likes and dislikes from 'before'. Law of Attraction says 'like attracts like'. Everything in our lives is in alignment with our vibration. We get what we vibrate! Astrology is not in contradiction to this. We are born when we are (the sun, moon, and planets in a certain place) because it's a perfect match!

Example: Accomplishment isn't one of my core values because I was born with 3 planets in the 10th house. I was born with three planets in the 10th house because one of my core values is accomplishment.


The most important point that Kim Falconer makes in the article i think is this:

3. Astrology is not fate

We are our own destiny, not the horoscope. Think of the astrology chart as a road map. It tells you the lay of the land. Here are the mountains. There is the ocean. You wouldn't ask the map to tell you where to go for a holiday. You would look at the map though, before you packed, to know if you needed a jacket or swimmers.


source : http://www.falconastrology.com/astro_loa.htm
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:13 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

Omit astrology from the question.

Make the question simply, Is there Free Will?

It is a well-known fact that most of our thinking takes place on unconscious levels.

What is unconscious is beyond our control, therefore fated.

That is not hard to understand and fits the known facts.

The astrological chart is a dynamic structural chart of the psyche.

It maps both the conscious and unconscious components of the self, the whole being.

What we bring from the unconscious realm into conscious awareness loses its fated quality.

Therefore, the secret to overcoming fate is to develop awareness, something the eastern religions have taught for a very long time.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:04 AM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

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-- in puppethood I found Liberation.
You are a very wise [and kind] man. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience, greybeard.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:53 PM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

I think astrology and the Law Of Attraction are contradictory. E.g., the Law Of Attraction states that whatever you can visualize, you can achieve if you believe. Astrology pretty much dictates that your potential is realized within the confines of your natal chart. E.g., you may desire to be fabulously wealthy per the Law Of Attraction. However, if your 2nd and 8th houses are challenged and suggest poverty or erratic finances, it's not going to happen for you.
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:07 PM
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Re: Does Astrology and The Law of Attraction Contradict Themselves?

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I think astrology and the Law Of Attraction are contradictory. E.g., the Law Of Attraction states that whatever you can visualize, you can achieve if you believe. Astrology pretty much dictates that your potential is realized within the confines of your natal chart. E.g., you may desire to be fabulously wealthy per the Law Of Attraction.

However, if your 2nd and 8th houses are challenged and suggest poverty or erratic finances, it's not going to happen for you.
Also, by applying simple common sense we can deduce that 'fabulous wealth' is rare

...hence the idea of some forms of wealth being 'fabulous'



An online dictionary definition of 'fabulous' is:

FABULOUS

Adjective

Extraordinary, esp. extraordinarily large.
Amazingly good: wonderful.

Synonyms

fabled - mythical - fantastic - fantastical - legendary
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