Is the rumour true?

[lillyjgc]

Hi folks,
Apparently a person who is rumoured to be a pedophile (although there is no criminal record of anything like this) is moving to a place very near to my place... I have some fears and concerns about this. The problem is for me to phrase a question properly...If I ask* is the rumour true ?*,the answer may refer to either the aspect of him being held in low repute or the rumour he is moving here.A handshake deal has been made so he is apparently moving on Aug 11-12. (yikes!). I know this person but I don't know if he is a pedophile or not- but not a risk I am willing to take with my daughter..(I would consider moving if in fact he IS a pedophile or a threat to me in any way.)
If he moves to the house he has shaken hands on I will find it hard to avoid face to face meetings with him ( I am on foot, so is he) which will make me feel very uncomfortable.
For the sake of keeping the question simple I asume the move is to go ahead....So what category in horary should I put the chart and my look at it?
Also I am not sure if*pedophilia* can be identified in a chart....can it?If anyone can help me with * getting the question/houses right* I'd be grateful. thankyou all, lillyjgc (i have an alysis ready to post but would like confirmation of the houses first. The interpretation I have done gives the rumour to H3 asc to me and H7 to the subject of the rumour. (but I don't want to post yet and make an idiot of myself in case I have this wrong) thankyou-
Data: Is the rumour true?
7th August 2007
Lat 33.55S
Long:151.10E
Time:15:02:52
Time Zone 10E
16,52 Cap rising
Placidus cusps.

Lillyjgc
SSkholi" If you are interested, my number is *79*.

[sskohli]

hell yeah i am interested
if we got his birth details it would be just terrific...we will come to know the combos for paedes
i am at work right now. i will go home and post the results.

thanks,
sandeep

[lillyjgc]

Sorry, I don't have his birth data- we used to be in a choir together...we have mutual friends and acquaintances in the entertainment/artist area. He is sun aries .Curiously, I was invited to his 50th but didn't go -that's how I know he's an aries), Thanks lillyjgc

[sskohli]

hi Lilly
This was a tricky one. becasue i was confusing the question 'Is he a paedophile' with 'is the rumour true'.
According to Nadi Venus Saturn conjunct WITH 5,8,12 number (house influence) lead to sexual perversion, and we can call a paed pervert.
If we take Archer Girl's interpretation to look at extra things in the chart and see perversion, its definitely present.
Saturn Venus conjunct with numbers 5,7,8,12 (perversion and aggression)..
with 1,4,10 showing coldness too.
I think all the qualities of a paed/sexual pervert.
But if you look at the question in hand..is the rumour true?
then a mixed kind of result is coming, maybe he is a pervert or a low lying germ (sorry but paedes deserve this) or something..but not actually a paedophile.
The result is that there's fire so the smoke, but it might not be completely true, maybe there are other aspects of his actions/personality which is questionable but maybe the fact that he's truly a paedophile may be wrong.

Hope you can understand and make sense.
thanks,
sandeep

( i saw there was another thread with the same question:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ead.php?t=1871
al nabulsi and fensi answered that, maybe they can contribute here....)

[freedomlover]

Lillyjgc,

Okay, I'm only a beginner at horary. However, when I looked at the chart, some things seemed to makes sense. I will read it more as a "snapshot of the energies" type of chart, though, since I don't know that much horary. Sometimes I surprise myself with the accuracy of reading this way, so we'll see how it goes. Anyway, humour me the practice.

Your house is Cap, so your sig is Saturn in Leo, which is in the 8th, naturally ruled by Scorpio- investigating (8th house) out of concern for protection of your child?(Saturn in Leo)

His sig is the Moon, since Cancer is on the 7th cusp. The Moon is in your 5th in Gemini. The 5th naturally concerns children, and Gemini naturally concerns neighbors. Looks like a match to me, especially since the Moon is your co-sig - (getting the facts) Moon in Gemini be telling of a deceptive (two-faced) quality about it,as well.
The cusp of your 5th is Taurus, so your child is Venus at 0* Virgo (Leo cusp) which is also in the 8th(his turned 2nd- so his home, property, personal possessions), which is conjunct your sig of Saturn in Leo/8th. His sig for his house, property is the Sun, which is in Leo, also in the 8th, and disposits both yours and your child's sigs. The Moon just separing from a square of your child's sig of Venus.(You getting the message and looking for facts?)

You're wondering about whether he has done it before..... "Other people's children" are your 11th. Scorpio on the cusp, and Jupiter in Sag in there, as well. Scorpio is associated with abuse, and of course, sex. Jupiter usually has a good meaning. But often people overlook the negative side, which concerns the archetype of men who think they're above the law and can do what they will when they will, also inherent in the negative side is men being dominant over the female. That does not look good, I'm afraid.
Also, your sig for neighbors (3rd house) is Jupiter, being the traditional ruler of Pisces. Thus your neighbor's sig and the sig for other people's children is the same.

His sig is also in his turned 11th house of "other people's children", which is the house of your child. Interesting to note that Mars in Taurus, (male seeking sensual pleasure) is in there, as well.

Mercury is in Leo - sign of children- in his house. (7th), which also rules open enemies. This is probably the rumour - communication concerning him. Also note that his cusp is Cancer, which rules past history and conditioned behavior.

Part of Fortune is in Scorpio in the 10th. 10th concerns recognition by others. I would think it would be fortuitous for you to recognize him as an abuser, since it is in Scorpio/10th.

The Moon's action, being your co-sig is:
Sextile Mercury in Leo
Opposes Jupiter
Sextile the Sun in Leo
Squares Uranus in Pisces
Trines Neptune in Aquarius
Sextiles Saturn in Leo

Last aspect is either
a sextile to Venus in Leo
or
an opposition to Pluto(f) in Sag
(Not sure how to determine that yet.)

Also, notice that the Moon is one step ahead of Mars


I'm trying to understand if I'm making too much out of all of this... It just seems so odd the placements in the chart..... Unfortunately I don't know how to read aspects yet in horary - at least not more than extreme amateur, so I don't know what some of this means in direct answer to your question. Even if I am pointing out truth, I would not be too alarmed. Forewarned is forearmed, as they say. IF he does move near you, maybe just educate your child, and warn him/her to stay away. The Moon in Gemini rules education, too - giving someone the facts. But of course, I trust that you will do what you feel is right to do.

At the very least, I think the chart is describing your fears and concerns to an absolute "T".

Hopefully someone more experienced at horary will step in and pick up this thread at this point. I would be very interested to know how much of what I picked up on was accurate by horary standards, etc.

Keep us posted if you find out any new developments, Lilly! I hope, for your sake, that it all turns out to be nothing.

Freedomlover

[lillyjgc]

Freedomlover, that was very thorough-thankyou so much...yes you seem to be right here about many things...(BTW. moon will oppose pluto then sextile venus)- you have approached this chart how I did using same houses so that makes me feel better about the analysis I will shortly post.
I have a synopsis of william Lilly's version of *is the rumour true?* which I thought I could use in a delineation of this chart as well.

Usually I don't give credence to rumours in a small town but for some reason my instinct kicked in here when I heard the news. People are quick to judge here where I live. I would hate to MIS judge this guy if he is just a sad lonely man with a grumpy personality...I feel concerned about the connections between HIM and my daughter showing up in the chart...are those connections just my concerns about the matter? or does he have his eye on her?
Pars is in scorpio (not good) in his H4, connected from a trine to the node in my H3 and the moon will square that..not sure how to read that.Does the moon in Gemini also refer to "love of youth"?

sskohli: Thankyou very much. I live in a place a bit remote- quite a few people with mental health probs are around the area...to me there is a big difference between a paedophile and a person who might be a bit sexually away from the *norm* -(whatever, the *norm* is )...so I don't think I can agree to *where there's smoke there's fire*...but I get your point-the indications are not good and I would prefer to be on the safe side.
Since I posted this I made a few (discreet) enquiries (yes, Sat in the H8 of investigating) and learned he has had domestic violence issues in the past with an ex of his- and that he spends a fair bit of time in the local rude video shop, so the chart does bear out that there are issues here possibly..I wondered if he might be gay as opposed to being a paedophile- the philistines where I live may not realise there is a big difference....I truly don't want to have a bad feeling in my heart to this guy if he doesn't deserve it.Will post my own attempt shortly...thankyou again lillyjgc

[freedomlover]

Lilly,

You wrote:

Pars is in scorpio (not good) in his H4, connected from a trine to the node in my H3 and the moon will square that..not sure how to read that.Does the moon in Gemini also refer to "love of youth"?

I wondered if he might be gay as opposed to being a paedophile- the philistines where I live may not realise there is a big difference....I truly don't want to have a bad feeling in my heart to this guy if he doesn't deserve it.Will post my own attempt shortly...

Actually, the thought came to me several times that he might be gay- or bisexual. I don't know about "love of youth".... But I see Gemini, when talking about sexual issues in the lower vibration as representing deviancy of some kind. Hanging out in the local **** shop is not a good sign. Gemini being a dual sign, could represent bisexuality, as well. I'm like you, really concerned about the connection to children's houses in the chart.

As to the POF in his 4th trining the NN in your 3rd, I see that as signifying that you are supposed to pray for him. (3rd house pisces, prayer --NN--taking the high road) That would be fortuitious for both of you, as it is a water sign trine,and it flows together.

[lillyjgc]

Thanks Freedom...yes I do pray for people (funny the chart suggests this to you as an action I can take..some would poo poo the idea but not me- I surely can and will do this.)
About to post up Will Lillys *template* for looking at this question..(I am neither an *ancient* or *modern* astrologer- I combine both- different methods for different types of questions, but Ive never asked this question of a horary before so I am willing to look at it from several angles ...we will be able to see how this plays out in real life...so, a good opportunity and I DO have strong feelings on this subject matter, which Saturn in leo describes.
W>Lilly uses different houses for this question so let's see what HIS method yields, shall we? Lillyjgc

[lillyjgc]

If Rumors be True or False, According
to the Ancients.

Consider the Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon, and see which of them is in an Angle, or if the Dispositor of the Moon be in an Angle, and a fixed Signe, or if any of these be in any succeedant house and fixed Signe, or in good aspect with the fortunate Planets, viz. in Sextile or Trine of Jupiter, Venus or Sun, you may then judge the Rumours are true and very good; but if you find the Lord of the Ascendant afflicted by the Infortunes, or cadent in house, you must judge the contrary though he strong in the Signe wherein he is..
Rumors are for the most part true when the Angles of the Figure are in Fixed signs, viz. Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius, and the Moon and Mercury in fixed Signes, seperating from the Infortunes and applying to a fortunate Planet, placed in any Angle.
Ill Rumours hold true, if the Angles of the 4th and 10th house be fixed, and the Moon received in them; I say, they will be in some sort verified: If you heare evill newes or bad reports, or have unlucky intelligence, yet if either of the Fortunes be in the Ascendant, or the Moon Unfortunate, it’s a strong argument the Rumours are false, and that they will turne rather to good than evil: The Retrogradation of Mercury, or he any other way afflicted, or of that Planet to whom the Moon applies, or to whom Mercury applies, and above all, if either of those two be Lords of the Ascendant, doe signifie the ill Rumours shall vanish to nothing, and shall be converted to good; if the Lord of the Ascendant be under the Sun Beames or Combust, the matter is kept secret, and few shall ever know the truth of them..

[freedomlover]

This is new to me, but....if I'm doing this right.....

Consider the Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon, and see which of them is in an Angle, or if the Dispositor of the Moon be in an Angle, and a fixed Signe, or if any of these be in any succeedant house and fixed Signe, or in good aspect with the fortunate Planets, viz. in Sextile or Trine of Jupiter, Venus or Sun, you may then judge the Rumours are true and very good;

The moon is in Gemini, disposited by Mercury in Leo, which is in the 7th house, in a fixed sign, and is trining Jupiter.

i

f the Lord of the Ascendant be under the Sun Beames or Combust, the matter is kept secret, and few shall ever know the truth of them..

The Lord of the ASC is under the Sun's beams. Of course, that is your sig. That could show that you know his secret and/or that you are to keep quiet about it and just pray for him- don't know. Or maybe he doesn't know you know.

What's your take on it?

[lillyjgc]

Okay: (sorry I Still can't work out how to do quotes even tho Draco explained it to me..)
RE Paragraph one:
Consider Lord of Asc (saturn) in a fixed sign but in a cadent house cj Venus
The moon in a cadent house and a mutable sign.
The ruler of the moon, Mercury in a fixed sign and on an angle and in same sign as asc Lord.
No aspect between Jupiter and saturn. Sun bringing dignified light to saturn and separating from mercury. moon applying a sextile to mercury in H7.
Sun and Jupiter in same triplicity, Jupiter in cadent house.Venus also in cadent house, sun also in cadent house..

Is Lord of asc in cadent house and afflicted by infortunes?
Yes Saturn cadent.but not afflicted by application to infortunes.
So far I say this suggests a yes-the rumour is true.
RE: Rumours are for the most part true if angles 4 and 10 be fixed- well, they are cardinal. So this suggests FALSE.
RE: ILL rumours hold true if cusps 4 and 10 be fixed AND the moon is received in them, so no the rumour is not true.
Mercury does apply to saturn the asc ruler so the rumour will vanish to nothing and shall be converted to good.
Asc Lord is not combust but is under the beams so secrets are involved.(I edited this in the light of freeedom's reply)

By this method it appears to be *Rumour is true *. I wonder what good will come of it? Maybe I will end up sticking up for him some time further down the track! The rumour however stops with me so in a way my hearing it may be fortuitous (for him!)..I don't spread rumours because it feels so bad when its done to me..but an issue like this raises ethical considerations (my darn house 9 getting the sat/venus on my natal pluto-exact at the moment-hey-pray for ME!!!! Next I will give my own treatise on the chart combining old and new methods...lillyjgc

[lillyjgc]

Hey Freedom- we were posting at the same time then!! How close does the sun have to be to a planet to be *under the beams?*-I've forgotten! Lilly

[freedomlover]

Lilly,

Hey Freedom- we were posting at the same time then!! How close does the sun have to be to a planet to be *under the beams?*-I've forgotten! Lilly

I just asked Archergirl this same question very recently! According to AG, a planet is "under the beams" of the Sun if it within 17degrees of the Sun. Saturn, Lord of ASC, and your sig, is 12 degrees of the Sun, so definitely "under the beams".

Re my earlier post:

Consider the Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon, and see which of them is in an Angle, or if the Dispositor of the Moon be in an Angle, and a fixed Signe, or if any of these be in any succeedant house and fixed Signe, or in good aspect with the fortunate Planets, viz. in Sextile or Trine of Jupiter, Venus or Sun, you may then judge the Rumours are true and very good;

The moon is in Gemini, disposited by Mercury in Leo, which is in the 7th house, in a fixed sign, and is trining Jupiter.

I do think this is significant. Even though the angles aren't fixed, the dispositor of the Moon IS, and it is on an angle, also the trine to Jupiter.
However, these are my thoughts on this: (and this occurred to me before,as well)
Since his Sig is the Moon, it could show that he has a past history of sexual deviancy, and may be gay/sexual perversion of some sort. The Jupiter in Sag, is in HIS turned 5th, which may show he was molested as a child. (5th rules inner child, as well). This is also your 11th, which is community. You say he was spotted in the local **** shop. (11th Scorp/Sag). It appears that this rumour is true. However he may indeed not be a paedophile, or at least have never acted on it. The Moon, being your co-sig and his sig could mean that he is going to be your neighbor, and thus this rumour is true, as well. Whatever the problem, a little compassion goes a long way.

Freedomlover

[lillyjgc]

Okay:
Asc rules me- Saturn in H8 of *sexual matters* and also *getting to the bottom of things*
Venus rules my H5 and is coming together with my ruler Saturn in house 8.
House 3 cusp is ruled by Jupiter and jupiter is in my H11 but approaching my H12 .(As Jupiter rules the rumour, it's appropriate that Jupiter is heading to house 12 where the rumour will be hidden from public view (by me). In house 11 because a friend told me the rumour- a friend who also lives close by in my neighbourhood, and the rumour is about a legal/ethical matter.
So far this chart looks radical.

The moon in H5 will square the N Node.
The moon is in Mercury's sign Gemini and mercury is in the sign the sun rules,Leo -children. I am concerned that the sun and then Mercury will oppose Neptune in my House 2, his House 8...something being hidden here?
There's an impending eclipse that will fall over the house 3/H9 axis- will something hidden by sun and merc opposite neptune *come to light* after the eclipse?? (Aug 28).
The tango square between jupiter and Uranus (the unusual, and sometimes the *aberrated*) suggests to me a sudden H3 event..coming up.
Mercury applies a trine to Jupiter in H11,(my hopes and wishes and my friends) - The news that I want to receive about the rumour? (hopefully that it is not true and maybe this being confirmed in some way..?
As mars is the ruler of HIS House 5 (recreation, sex ) and mars in Taurus..(yes a sensual male-but taurus retards action- the mercurial influence could suggest he likes to look at rude books or movies ) but mars about to change into gemini where it is *all talk* and not strong., heading toward HIS H12 of secrets, self undoing, mercurial things done in private.Mars square venus,the ruler of my H5 daughter-does this place an *obstacle* between my daughter and Him? (I hope so)...She walks to the bus stop early in the morning and will be in his direct vicinity on a daily basis.
Aries rules my house 4 cusp. (This guy IS an Aries!)..but that house is HIS tenth-his reputation and with my ruler being Saturn I guess that places the responsibility on me to be fair and impartial in this. HIS home is ruled by venus- perhaps the venus/saturn conjunction also shows he is moving closeby.
His ruler, the moon is in MY house 5..(my daughter) HIS house 11.
For me it can describe I have two children...For him? The moon in house 11, HIS hopes and wishes and mercury does naturally rule neighbourhoods..(He wants to come and live here?) Also His h11 describes his friends- I think he got this place through friends, but we do have *mutual* friends as well...(Perhaps a friend of MINE has helped him out??)

Jupiter ruling the rumour DOES give the rumour SOME credence- it is afterall the most dignified planet there except for the sun which is in Leo in His House 2- I've read somewhere that the sun in House two suggests ego issues, and it will oppose neptune soon- which i always considered involves deception. As Neptune is in MY house two-perhaps it is I who have been deceived by the rumour teller.(a sun pisces).

The moon is sextile HIS h10 cusp so his reputation will be intact ?(sortof? seeing moon is in Gemini, chit chat, sextile his house of reputation..Hey, maybe I will have to stick up for him in some way (I wouldn't want to be wrong about this though would I?)
Now just to throw in a real left-fielder!

When I drew up the chart the sabian symbol on the ascendant is:
"Repressed woman finds a psychological release in nudism"
This is totally bizarre. The repressed woman IS me. I am a nude model for a life drawing class that occurs--cop this!- ACROSS THE ROAD FROM WHERE HE WILL BE LIVING...Directly across the road. The sabian is exactly right in this description ( I started the nude modelling in order to make myself feel more comfortable about my body-hence *repressed*).This alone makes the chart radical I think.
The moon is decreasing in light with nothing to transfer that light to anyway-he can't DO anything?
The moon is square venus (maybe he doesn't LIKE my daughter?.Maybe she doesn't like HIM!)
Also the moon will make a large number of aspects which suggests a lot of events are about to unfold for HIM as the moon is claimed as his ruler-perhaps he will be too busy to be thinking about sex.
Moon in Mercury fits him -he wears glasses and I've seen him sitting outside a cafe reading a newspaper so that's how I *see *him.

He's a loner- no partner, lives alone, frequents the rude video shop and is rumoured to have hit his ex.Already his reputation is tarnished in this town.He was involved in a scandal a few years ago regarding a friend of his selling guns...People can be cruel though..
Upshot: Still not sure if the rumour is true.The ruler of the rumour is in dignity, stationary direct and well placed in the eleventh house of friends whence it came-so it COULD be true. I won't move house JUST YET..And yes Freedom. I have talked to my daughter about this stuff (but not this guy in particular-her school friends might take the law into their own hands and graffiti his house or something-have to be careful here..

So- that's my take...Anyone care to comment further?? Warm wishes, lillyjgc

[lillyjgc]

Maybe, as I work as a HEALER I will end up helping him somehow...There are too many connections going on in this chart that suggest contact between this person and me/my daughter, conjoined in eighth matters-even if that is through the eleventh house or third house. It also could mean though that I see myself as being responsible for my daughter in eigth house matters such as sex perversion etc. My daughter is unfortunately homophobic so if she were to think this guy was gay she would dislike him. I am trying to teach her to be more accepting of the differences between people whilst also trying to protect her innocence...(Rock and a hard place territory??). This will require great diplomacy and the moon will sextile everything in leo so that makes me feel better about things- the moon's opposition to pluto may turn up something though- or close the matter entirely.Astrology does make life more interesting that's for sure. I have learnt so much just tackling this question. Thanks for all the input.Warm wishes, Lillyjgc