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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renassiance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and exludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretetation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Old 01-09-2013, 06:16 AM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Hi, I've been interested in Traditional astrology recently.

I've been told that I've got a Procyon in my chart.

I've learnt that Procyon with Pluto is "dangerous". What does it mean?

And I'd like to ask whether I had any other stars? If yes whaat are they?

Thanks so much!!! I'd love to hear from you guys!!!!

Here is my chart:


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Old 01-09-2013, 07:20 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

An easily available source of information about the fixed stars is constellationsofwords.com; remember that planets (and horoscopic points like the ascending degree and MC, for example) can connect with stars in several ways:
-conjunction in longitude
-Parallel in declination
-Parallel in latitude
These tables are all available at the internet site mentioned above; when 2 or more stars are connected with the same planet or point, then the indications of each star must be compared, contrasted and blended to form a reliable estimate of the net influences upon that planet, and through that planet (or other point) upon the chart as a whole.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:05 AM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Thank you so much!! I'm just a beginner so I don't really understand much. So can I ask why I have a Procyon?

http://constellationsofwords.com/stars/ElNath.html

For example, how do i know I have this star on my chart? it only said "Of the nature of Mars and Mercury" , but Procyon also has that!!!!

Please enlighten me!! Thanks so much!
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:06 AM
Olivia Olivia is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Procyon was around 25 Cancer when you were born, so why anyone is telling you it's conjunct Pluto in your chart is beyond me. Fixed stars work by conjunction only, and for Procyon I wouldn't give more than a degree or two. Even then, we usually want to see some other indicators in the chart as to what the star portends - say if you had a fixed star that gives wealth and 14 other indications that give poverty - you're probably going to be poor.

Fixed stars are assigned natures according to which planet or planetary mixture they're most like - if you want to see what there is for specific delineatory material, you'll probably need to scroll down to the bottom of the page for each star on the CoW web site.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:30 AM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Well, I'm sorry I'm very new to this so please do not mind my ignorance. but what do you mean by conjunction only? I only have Mercury-Pluto conjunction. Now I don't understand what is a Procyon?

Well, Traditional astrology is really tough. And the ways you guys - the masters talk about it are also difficult to understand.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:36 AM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Procyon is a fixed star in the constellation Canis Minor. Fixed stars, as the name implies are fixed, except not really. They move so very slowly that it appears that they don't move at all. Procyon is currently around 25° Cancer, so it's only going to effect planets at this degree. Stars don't cast rays, so they can't participate in aspects, they only influence planets that are in conjunction with them.

I would probably be a bit more interested in Canopus on your MC, it's one of my favorite stars.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:13 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta View Post
Hi, I've been interested in Traditional astrology recently.

I've been told that I've got a Procyon in my chart.
Bernadette Brady explains how Fixed Stars relate to your natal chart

– Free illustrated talk:

“Visual Astrology – Working With The Whole Sky”
http://www.visualastrology.co.uk/Fla...e_mainpage.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta View Post
I've learnt that Procyon with Pluto is "dangerous". What does it mean?
Traditional Astrology began thousands of years before the discovery of 'the outer planets' and therefore ancient astrologers predicted using Fixed Stars, Eclipses, and the seven visible classical planets Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn as well as the various 'Lots' eg Lot of Fortune aka Part of Fortune and so on. One of the recently discovered outer planets has been re-classified by astronomers as one of the 'Dwarf' Planets and there's a thread explaining why at :

“Why Pluto Is No Longer A Planet”
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=55941


Reasons why Jupiter and Saturn are the Generational Planets
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=50915

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta View Post
And I'd like to ask whether I had any other stars? If yes whaat are they?

Thanks so much!!! I'd love to hear from you guys!!!
!
If you would like to know the locations of other fixed stars on your natal chart then on astro.com 'Free Horoscopes'

(1) choose the option 'Extended Chart Selection Page'


(2) tick the box 'Add Some Fixed Stars'


(3) scroll to the bottom of the page and click on 'List of Fixed Stars [150kb]'


(4) select Procyon from the list of Fixed Stars – one may choose up to 10 additional stars


then natal chart with Fixed Stars is displayed
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:56 PM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Thanks so much. I have successfully added two fixed stars to my charts. I have some questions:

1) "Stars don't cast rays, so they can't participate in aspects, they only influence planets that are in conjunction with them" So in this case Procyon only influence Mars, in what ways?

Please correct me if i am wrong so from the constellation website under The astrological influences of the star Procyon, I will interpret the Procyon as regards to planet Mars, coz Procyon in my chart only influence Mars. Is it correct??


2) There are so many fixed stars, how can we choose the most significant ones?


3) According to the website I found, Canopus is not a very good star to have I'm sorry if that is wrong. Unless "culminating". I don't know about that.
http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Canopus.html



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Thanks so much everyone for your help!!!! Looking forward to your replies!!!!

Last edited by herokangta; 01-09-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:17 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta View Post
2) There are so many fixed stars, how can we choose the most significant ones?
Bernadette Brady's talks are very helpful regarding how to do this as they explain that not all fixed stars are actually ON the ecliptic. The ecliptic is the apparent path of the sun http://www.visualastrology.co.uk/Fla...e_mainpage.htm
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:24 PM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

I saw a list of 10 Brightest stars so I started with the first 10. Is it alright?
http://space.about.com/od/stars/tp/brighteststars.htm

So u mean the stars must be "ON the ecliptic". Oh, I will listen to her talk. Wow. It is very interesting. I've been interested in Modern Astrology for a while, and then Chinese Astrology and now this one. Really interesting how you have some similar interpretations from three different styles!!!!

Thanks so much JUPITERASC!!!!


Last edited by herokangta; 01-09-2013 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:43 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta View Post
I saw a list of 10 Brightest stars so I started with the first 10. Is it alright?
http://space.about.com/od/stars/tp/brighteststars.htm

So u mean the stars must be "ON the ecliptic". Oh, I will listen to her talk. Wow. It is very interesting. I've been interested in Modern Astrology for a while, and then Chinese Astrology and now this one. Really interesting how you have some similar interpretations from three different styles!!!!

Thanks so much JUPITERASC!!!!
That's ok herokangta! btw there's a description of the Sun's path around the sun at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related that clears up many important questions that beginners ask
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:59 PM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Thanks you so much!!! It's 2 am now in my country. I will listen to the talk and youtube file in the afternoon before I have any further questions. Thank you. It's really interesting!!!!!!
You are a great teacher!!!!!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:22 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Fixed Stars are what I call a tertiary consideration. This means that I would look at all the stuff that is in our solar system before I would look at the influence of a BEING far away. Of course distrance really isn't a consideration.

But stars are also affected by their placement, so even the nastiest star like Algol if placed in a powerful and low friction house and powerful and low friction sign is going to be less of an impact.

But anything that you see in a star needs to have a correlation in other parts of your chart. Other stars cannot take precedence over the rest of your chart.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:54 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta View Post
Thanks you so much!!! It's 2 am now in my country. I will listen to the talk and youtube file in the afternoon before I have any further questions. Thank you. It's really interesting!!!!!!
You are a great teacher!!!!!!
Thanks and very kind of you to say so herokangta! Remember that Astrology has many layers and multiple ways of providing answers therefore it is worth listening to all the different opinions on the subject because quite simply, no one is right and no one is wrong. There are multiple astrological techniques and millions of astrologers who can make each one of those techniques 'work' for them personally.

Keep asking questions no matter how much you find out because there is always new insight to discover. btw there is a brief article on the origins of house systems which is well worth reading at
http://www.librarising.com/astrology...ignhouses.html
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:05 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta
Please correct me if i am wrong so from the constellation website under The astrological influences of the star Procyon, I will interpret the Procyon as regards to planet Mars, coz Procyon in my chart only influence Mars. Is it correct??
Yes, this is correct. Procyon only has the power to influence Mars because he's the only planet near enough.

Quote:
There are so many fixed stars, how can we choose the most significant ones?
By prominence (brightness of the star) and position (if it is connected to anything in the chart). Don't ever give a fixed star more than a 2 degree influence, except for maybe some of the more famous ones. I usually do something like 3 degrees for famous stars, 2 degrees for first magnitude stars, 1 degree for second magnitude stars, and exact for everyone else.

Quote:
According to the website I found, Canopus is not a very good star to have I'm sorry if that is wrong. Unless "culminating". I don't know about that.
Canopus is a very fortunate star. I personally don't care much for Robson's interpretations of the stars. Diana Rosenburg does a much better job in her huge dictionary of stars. Culminating means on the MC.

Quote:
So u mean the stars must be "ON the ecliptic".
No, all stars are projected onto the ecliptic when they are listed in zodiacal degrees. The positions given for stars that are actually on or near the ecliptic are going to be more accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu
But stars are also affected by their placement, so even the nastiest star like Algol if placed in a powerful and low friction house and powerful and low friction sign is going to be less of an impact.
I disagree with you here. Stars aren't affected by accidental dignity. They are beings greater than the planets. If you have Algol connected to any planet in any house you're going to have trouble.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:04 AM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Thanks so much!!!!!! I have some questions to ask.

I am not currently living in my country. So I should still use my natal chart or the new relocation chart with the new positioned fixed stars?

And what is the difference between fixed stars and asteroids? For example, Vertex, Chiron, Juno vs the fixed stars? What have more influence in the chart?

Last edited by herokangta; 01-10-2013 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:43 AM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
I disagree with you here. Stars aren't affected by accidental dignity. They are beings greater than the planets. If you have Algol connected to any planet in any house you're going to have trouble.

Accidental dignity has nothing to do with the technology of Astrodynes and Cosmodynes. This is what I'm talking about when I say Power and Friction, and enormous amount of information is involved in that.

While I don't deny that they are Beings greater that our planets, those Beings are not part of our Scheme. Since our Sun is more significant than those stars which have their own schemes, the energies granted by our own Solar Logos to the Planetary Logoi are in relation to us, more significant that other Solar Logoi far away.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:36 AM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

I just figured out i've got Vindemiatrix conjunct Jupiter in my natal. Well, it's a bad sign!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:01 AM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Accidental dignity has nothing to do with the technology of Astrodynes and Cosmodynes. This is what I'm talking about when I say Power and Friction, and enormous amount of information is involved in that.
And astrodynes and cosmodynes have nothing to do with traditional astrology and that approach of interpreting stars in charts since they weren't a developed technique until 1946.

Quote:
While I don't deny that they are Beings greater that our planets, those Beings are not part of our Scheme. Since our Sun is more significant than those stars which have their own schemes, the energies granted by our own Solar Logos to the Planetary Logoi are in relation to us, more significant that other Solar Logoi far away.
We'll just have to agree to disagree about the different world views being utilized here. As far as I'm concerned, those distant stars are more with us than, say, the outer planets or asteroids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta
I just figured out i've got Vindemiatrix conjunct Jupiter in my natal. Well, it's a bad sign!!
Yes, Vindemiatrix is kind of a weird star. Having it connected with Jupiter sounds pretty rough since it's a star with the nature of Saturn/Mercury.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:18 AM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Well, Procyon conjunct Mars in my chart is also not a good sign I heard Vindemiatrix means widowhood upset already!!! Now I wish these stars don't have much influence, even though it does.

Last edited by herokangta; 01-10-2013 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:09 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herokangta View Post
Thanks so much!!!!!! I have some questions to ask. I am not currently living in my country. So I should still use my natal chart or the new relocation chart with the new positioned fixed stars?

And what is the difference between fixed stars and asteroids? For example, Vertex, Chiron, Juno vs the fixed stars? What have more influence in the chart?
“...Most stars are between 1 billion and 10 billion years old. Some stars may even be close to 13.7 billion years old—the observed age of the universe. The oldest star yet discovered, HE 1523-0901, is an estimated 13.2 billion years old.

The more massive the star, the shorter its lifespan, primarily because massive stars have greater pressure on their cores, causing them to burn hydrogen more rapidly. The most massive stars last an average of a few million years, while stars of minimum mass (red dwarfs) burn their fuel very slowly and last tens to hundreds of billions of years...”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star

The sun of our solar system is tiny in comparison to massive 'fixed stars' because, even though these stars are commonly hundreds of light years distant - and sometimes billions of light years away - they are nevertheless clearly visible in night skies as tiny points of light. We call them stars but they are actually suns

IN CONTRAST astroids are simply pieces of rock
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:23 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
“...Most stars are between 1 billion and 10 billion years old. Some stars may even be close to 13.7 billion years old—the observed age of the universe. The oldest star yet discovered, HE 1523-0901, is an estimated 13.2 billion years old.

The more massive the star, the shorter its lifespan, primarily because massive stars have greater pressure on their cores, causing them to burn hydrogen more rapidly. The most massive stars last an average of a few million years, while stars of minimum mass (red dwarfs) burn their fuel very slowly and last tens to hundreds of billions of years...”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star

The sun of our solar system is tiny in comparison to massive 'fixed stars' because, even though these stars are commonly hundreds of light years distant - and sometimes billions of light years away - they are nevertheless clearly visible in night skies as tiny points of light. We call them stars but they are actually suns

IN CONTRAST astroids are simply pieces of rock
Depends on how you perceive astrology and the energies of the universe, as well as the spiritual development of the universe.

If you believe that each Sun is the evidence of a great Heavenly Being who by HIS existance manifests the whole of the solar system which is his Being, then the energy that He sends out in great Streams the wherewithall that we littles ones live and move and have our being, then what is within HIS ring-pass-not is the primarry movers for use. Planets likewise are also represeantions of great Planetary Beings(except for our moon which is a dead planet without a Logoi since it represents a failed scheme), and supported by the light and energy of the GREAT Solar Logos have their own energies. Other objects such as asteroids do not have an energy by themselves. But what they do have is a distrubance in the flow, and these disturbances cause eddies and islands of energy which influence the flow of the energies in the Solar Ring-pass-not.

Thus other stars which are sometimes suns an sometimes really whole galaxies do have influence on our energies in the solar Ring-Pass-Not, but they are external energies which are somewhat alien to the goals and flows of our own Solar Logos.

This makes them an exterior force which has to be accounted for after all the elements of our own Ring-Pass-Not are accounted for. An anology would be that other people affect house you act, but other people don't affect how your kidneys work, or how the blood flow moves in your own body. Our solar system is like the manifesting body of you and I. Certainly energies that impact us can impact our individual cells and organs(organs are like the Planetary Logoi in a solar system), such as having radiation treatments.

But these energies are directed by our own Solar Logos to specific issues. We must look first to our own bodies and groups of cells and organs as the first movers to how we understand our actions and the actions on our own cells. Obviously what I eat is more significant to me that the radio waves that come through me from an exteroir source.

As above, so below.

And I chose to differ with you.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:37 PM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

"The Universe Is Alive - The Oldest Idea On The Planet!" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...875#post358875
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
This is, of course, the ancient Hermetic concept, and is technically connected with what has been termed (in the past) "Pan-vitalism": as a hermetico-esotericist, I am in agreement with this idea, 100%

(although my understanding of this concept is not exactly the same as as outlined by contemporary exponents of this idea)
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:28 AM
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

IN the OP's reference chart, the following star connections (at least of the more well known stars) via conjunctions in longitude with several planets and other horoscopic points, are present: remember not only do we look at the interpretations of the star + planet (or other horoscopic point) but we must also consider that the star connection channels some of the influences of the constellation of which it is a part, into the chart through that connection:

-ascendant connects with Seginus, and channels influences of the constellation Bootes into the chart
-Jupiter connects with Vindemiatrix (as mentioned in earlier posts), but also with the star Caphir, and they channel the influences of the constellation of Virgo into the chart (through the Jupiter connection)
-the Sun connects with Ras Algethi, and channels in the influences of the constellation Hercules
-the Part of Fortune connects with the stars Almach and Menkar, channeling in the influences of Andromeda via Almach and those of the constellation Cetus, through Menkar
-as the OP mentions, Mars connects with Procyon and the influences of the Lesser Dog constellation (Canis Minor)
-the MC (as also mentioned above) connects with Canopus, and channels in the influences of the Great Ship constellation (Argo Navis) (note that the star Canopus culminates in this chart)
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:53 AM
herokangta herokangta is offline
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Re: Stars beside Procyon in my chart?

I didn't know about Almach, Ras Algethi, Seginus in my chart. Thanks so much!!!!! Couldn't find interpretations with respect to the planets on the website.

I think I also got, according to my research:

- Agena conjunct Mercury/Pluto

- Sirius conjunct MC ( The orb is 1, not sure it counts)

- Vega conjunct Uranus. ( orb 1)

I'm trying to find interpretations for the stars position, but for the Part of Fortune, should I interpret that the same as Moon?

I am not a fan of Vindemiatrix! It signifies the death of the life partner. I hope it just only signifies troubles with law and many journeys!!

Last edited by herokangta; 01-11-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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