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Old 12-26-2012, 12:11 PM
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Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

I am worried that I may be dealing with someone that tries to undermine me and control me emotionally, obviously in a really subtle way. There are some aspects between us that indicate possible power struggles (like Mars square mars and my Mercury square his Uranus) but then there are few of really positive aspects involving Venus, Neptune, Mercury and Saturn. Should I trust him or no? My Sun squares his Neptune, which makes me think there will be deception on his part.

I've never dated another Pisces before (or really been drawn to one for that matter), but I think I like his Aqua Moon and not sure how I feel about his watery Venus/Mars combo just yet.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:31 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Hi. I think you basically addressed your problem better than I can with the quote at the bottom of your post. Are you someone who is ripe for being manipulated and/or could potentially seek to manipulate the feelings and actions of others through a need for power/self-protection? If you are, then you may inadvertently bring out the manipulative side of this person, and if you are in the process of dealing with a tendency to give power away, then you will certainly illuminate these issues through being with a person you feel uneasy with, but such a drastic situation isn't the only way to reclaim one's power - you can do that perfectly well by being single and noticing how you can thrive without sexual/romantic intimacy.

As for the astrology, it is impossible to tell for sure whether one person will seek to manipulate another. Certainly your Sun squaring his Neptune could mean that you trigger his need to create a flawless paradise either for himself through you or for both of you to share equally. But this is just one possible manifestation of this cross-aspect. He may idealise you, making him susceptible to being manipulated by you.

If he is obviously self-centred, then it should be clear whether he will seek to manipulate you in order to indulge himself, or whether you will just be part of the scenery. If it is more subtle, I guess you will just have to trust your intuition as to whether or not to give him the benefit of the doubt. (Remember that famous line by Ian Flemming - 'Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action'. So don't give him the benefit of the doubt over and over again.

Perhaps a more tricky scenario is if you are both quite needy. In this case you may manipulate one another by the sheer force of your neediness, with no sense of inequality etc to highlight the problem.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:16 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Which one of the two charts is the one that is the person who is trying to undermine you emotiuonally?
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:23 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Which one of the two charts is the one that is the person who is trying to undermine you emotiuonally?
The person on the inside. I am the female, he is the male. I don't know this for certain, but I feel a sense of uneasiness for some reason and am wondering if it's just something within ME or if it's something I should try and be aware of.
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Last edited by anjelik; 12-26-2012 at 03:26 PM. Reason: didn't realize the chart was flipped
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:26 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Hi. I think you basically addressed your problem better than I can with the quote at the bottom of your post. Are you someone who is ripe for being manipulated and/or could potentially seek to manipulate the feelings and actions of others through a need for power/self-protection? If you are, then you may inadvertently bring out the manipulative side of this person, and if you are in the process of dealing with a tendency to give power away, then you will certainly illuminate these issues through being with a person you feel uneasy with, but such a drastic situation isn't the only way to reclaim one's power - you can do that perfectly well by being single and noticing how you can thrive without sexual/romantic intimacy.

As for the astrology, it is impossible to tell for sure whether one person will seek to manipulate another. Certainly your Sun squaring his Neptune could mean that you trigger his need to create a flawless paradise either for himself through you or for both of you to share equally. But this is just one possible manifestation of this cross-aspect. He may idealise you, making him susceptible to being manipulated by you.

If he is obviously self-centred, then it should be clear whether he will seek to manipulate you in order to indulge himself, or whether you will just be part of the scenery. If it is more subtle, I guess you will just have to trust your intuition as to whether or not to give him the benefit of the doubt. (Remember that famous line by Ian Flemming - 'Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action'. So don't give him the benefit of the doubt over and over again.

Perhaps a more tricky scenario is if you are both quite needy. In this case you may manipulate one another by the sheer force of your neediness, with no sense of inequality etc to highlight the problem.
No, I am not easily manipulated - and I don't go out of my way to manipulate others, but if I have a choice between the two I would rather be the person in power. However, I really seek balance in my relationships. There are just things he has done that make me wonder. I really analyze every move a person makes and I don't miss a beat. We met in London and he is coming to visit me in 3 weeks.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:47 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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I am worried that I may be dealing with someone that tries to undermine me and control me emotionally, obviously in a really subtle way. There are some aspects between us that indicate possible power struggles (like Mars square mars and my Mercury square his Uranus) but then there are few of really positive aspects involving Venus, Neptune, Mercury and Saturn. Should I trust him or no? My Sun squares his Neptune, which makes me think there will be deception on his part.

I've never dated another Pisces before (or really been drawn to one for that matter), but I think I like his Aqua Moon and not sure how I feel about his watery Venus/Mars combo just yet.
You being on the outside, I don't see your Sun squaring his Neptune. I see your Sun trining his Uranus. I don't see any hard aspects going to his Neptune (inside chart).

OTOH, it looks as if his Merc and Venus square your Neptune... I would think he would be the one being disillusioned in this case.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:11 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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You being on the outside, I don't see your Sun squaring his Neptune. I see your Sun trining his Uranus. I don't see any hard aspects going to his Neptune (inside chart).

OTOH, it looks as if his Merc and Venus square your Neptune... I would think he would be the one being disillusioned in this case.
I see my Sun trining his Uranus too, as well as feel it. It was definitely a magnetic attraction from the start. Perhaps its his Uranus that is making me a little uneasy? I think I am just untrusting of someone that is so romantic... I don't normally attract so much water. Usually lots of fire / earth combos.

Hmm he would be disillusioned? Hopefully not in a completely negative way.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:57 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Hi anjelik. Its difficult to see his natal aspects from the chart, but it looks as though his Sun in Pisces in the 12th is squaring Neptune, with Mercury and Venus also in Pisces in the 12th, and his chart ruling Mars is also in water. Along side the underemphasis on earth, I would personally be wary of expecting commitment from this person. He is probably very idealistic and if his behaviour seems suspicious it may be simply because he lives in a fantasy world to some extent and subconsciously takes steps to maintain the fantasy. Like Pisces, Aquarius is also a very idealistic sign, and also difficult to pin down.

Another reason for caution could be the way his Mars and Pluto are triggered by your chart. His Pluto is in his 7th house and his Mars in his 5th house - both of these houses being concerned with romantic relationships. Despite his Aries ascendant, he may not be able to assert his will in a direct manner, due to Mars being in Cancer and the general watery nature of the chart. Therefore the desire for satiation and power which are natural expressions of Mars and Pluto may function unconsciously. Your ascendant is opposite his Mars, and your Mars Saturn conjunction is conjunct his Pluto. It could be that if you get into a long term relationship with this person, then your need to maintain boundaries and pursue your own goals (Capricorn, Mars, Saturn) could trigger a strong reaction from him, although if this does happen, then it could manifest subtly, as is often the case with a watery temperament.

I must emphasise that all this is of course pure speculation. But since you have some suspicions it is possible that they are connected with the factors mentioned above.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:25 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Another thought is that since it is unusual for you to be attracted to someone so watery, you might want to look at how this could be reflected in your transits and progressions. I can't see anything obvious from a glance at your chart in relation to transits. If you end up in a long term relationship, then transiting Uranus and Pluto will trigger the cross aspects between his Pluto and your Mars Saturn conjunction further into this decade.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Hi anjelik. Its difficult to see his natal aspects from the chart, but it looks as though his Sun in Pisces in the 12th is squaring Neptune, with Mercury and Venus also in Pisces in the 12th, and his chart ruling Mars is also in water. Along side the underemphasis on earth, I would personally be wary of expecting commitment from this person. He is probably very idealistic and if his behaviour seems suspicious it may be simply because he lives in a fantasy world to some extent and subconsciously takes steps to maintain the fantasy. Like Pisces, Aquarius is also a very idealistic sign, and also difficult to pin down.

Another reason for caution could be the way his Mars and Pluto are triggered by your chart. His Pluto is in his 7th house and his Mars in his 5th house - both of these houses being concerned with romantic relationships. Despite his Aries ascendant, he may not be able to assert his will in a direct manner, due to Mars being in Cancer and the general watery nature of the chart. Therefore the desire for satiation and power which are natural expressions of Mars and Pluto may function unconsciously. Your ascendant is opposite his Mars, and your Mars Saturn conjunction is conjunct his Pluto. It could be that if you get into a long term relationship with this person, then your need to maintain boundaries and pursue your own goals (Capricorn, Mars, Saturn) could trigger a strong reaction from him, although if this does happen, then it could manifest subtly, as is often the case with a watery temperament.

I must emphasise that all this is of course pure speculation. But since you have some suspicions it is possible that they are connected with the factors mentioned above.
Thanks for your point of view. He is definitely idealistic and I find it disarming for a man to be so mushy and "all in" so quickly. I mean he's already asked me to move to London and has mentioned that he would love to live in the US if he could get his company to transfer him. This is what throws me off and makes me weary, in a way, but in the other sense I am so enchanted by his behavior it's kind of silly. I am used to men that are super hard to pin down.

It's interesting that you mention the slow and subtle manifestation. He dated a woman for 9 years and they were engaged and then she called it off. He never went into why (and I really don't think it's my business at this point) but she obviously was the initiator of things in their relationship then. Do you think he would eventually grow frustrated with my tendency to sometimes be alpha female? I'm attaching both of our charts individually. Maybe that would be easier to read.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:34 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Another thought is that since it is unusual for you to be attracted to someone so watery, you might want to look at how this could be reflected in your transits and progressions. I can't see anything obvious from a glance at your chart in relation to transits. If you end up in a long term relationship, then transiting Uranus and Pluto will trigger the cross aspects between his Pluto and your Mars Saturn conjunction further into this decade.
I didn't meet him organically - I don't know if that matters. I was planning a trip to London and he is my friend's cousin. We began texting weeks before I went on my trip and it was instant chemistry via text. But it wasn't like he approached me on the street or whatever.

However, at the same time I was in Houston for 5 weeks for work and did meet an Aquarius (my 3rd day there) with some water elements (Mars in Pisces and a Cancer Moon) but he has an Aqua Venus and Cap ASC and I feel much more comfortable speaking with him - it's like I totally get his motives and where he is coming from. We still speak and I feel like if I did indeed live down there that we would have a functioning relationship.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:45 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Another thought is that since it is unusual for you to be attracted to someone so watery, you might want to look at how this could be reflected in your transits and progressions. I can't see anything obvious from a glance at your chart in relation to transits. If you end up in a long term relationship, then transiting Uranus and Pluto will trigger the cross aspects between his Pluto and your Mars Saturn conjunction further into this decade.
Hmmm I'm not even really sure what you mean by that. Uranus and Pluto are going to impact my Mars and Saturn? That sounds like a recipe for hostile soup. I am a little confused now. So this is obviously more about me than him, right (as I suspected)? I've attached my chart with transits and progressions.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:02 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Hi. I'm not sure if it matters how we meet the significant people in our lives. It does sound as though he could easily lose himself in you and that he is true to his watery temperament in this sense. And yet with the Aquarius Moon opposite Saturn he perhaps needs an independent partner to help fulfil this part of him.

Where as you are more independent with Moon in Gemini opposite Uranus, and plenty of air and earth in your chart, and yet you have Sun in Pisces suggesting that you might get a more watery partner to help fulfil this part of you.

It is often the way that partner's charts mirror one another in this way. But he seems much more needy of emotional intimacy while you seem to need more room to breathe, and so you might find yourselves too polarised with one another.

His Sun Pluto quincunx could add to the potential for him to become manipulative. Another thought is that his Neptune - very powerful in this chart - is seeking its ideal state through that which is beyond one's everyday horizons (Neptune is in Sagittarius in the 9th and also aspecting Jupiter.) Thus his Neptune-Pisces need to find someone to redeem him could easily be laid upon a foreign person such as yourself. Meanwhile you have Saturn and Pluto in the 9th! Jupiter also, but in Scorpio.

I don't mean to be negative about the relationship, but since you have suspicions, I'm offering suggestions of how they may relate to the charts.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:04 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

I just meant that one of the possible problematic cross aspects between your charts (ie your Mars Saturn conjunct his Pluto) will be triggered by those powerful transits in due course, so if you get together with him, watch for signs of any controlling behaviour on his part becoming more intense as the transits get closer to exact in a year or two.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:11 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

The only thing that jumps out at me in the transits and progressions is that transiting Saturn is aspecting both of your watery planets at the moment (ie Sun in Pisces and Jupiter in Scorpio). So it could be a time of your watery side needing more concrete expression.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:25 AM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Hi. I'm not sure if it matters how we meet the significant people in our lives. It does sound as though he could easily lose himself in you and that he is true to his watery temperament in this sense. And yet with the Aquarius Moon opposite Saturn he perhaps needs an independent partner to help fulfil this part of him.

Where as you are more independent with Moon in Gemini opposite Uranus, and plenty of air and earth in your chart, and yet you have Sun in Pisces suggesting that you might get a more watery partner to help fulfil this part of you.

It is often the way that partner's charts mirror one another in this way. But he seems much more needy of emotional intimacy while you seem to need more room to breathe, and so you might find yourselves too polarised with one another.

His Sun Pluto quincunx could add to the potential for him to become manipulative. Another thought is that his Neptune - very powerful in this chart - is seeking its ideal state through that which is beyond one's everyday horizons (Neptune is in Sagittarius in the 9th and also aspecting Jupiter.) Thus his Neptune-Pisces need to find someone to redeem him could easily be laid upon a foreign person such as yourself. Meanwhile you have Saturn and Pluto in the 9th! Jupiter also, but in Scorpio.

I don't mean to be negative about the relationship, but since you have suspicions, I'm offering suggestions of how they may relate to the charts.

You can be negative, positive, whatever. I just want perspective.

I don't know how I feel about Pisces. I feel like I'm dating myself. And I make no sense, especially being double mutable.

Any other thoughts on this? He is coming to visit me Jan 17th.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:37 AM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Hi. My main thought really is just to proceed with caution, and to be sure that if a relationship is established, that you both have the same expectations. I certainly wouldn't emigrate or allow him to do so until you are very sure, due to his extreme Piscean nature and lack of earth (and lack of air compared to water).

In terms of dating yourself, he is perhaps a kind of caricature of your Piscean Sun because of his three personal planets in Pisces, his Sun Neptune square, and his four personal planets in the 12th house.

Since much of his chart is concentrated between the end of Aquarius and the first part of Aries, it is worth taking note of where these placements are in your chart. With his ascendant, his Aquarius Moon, and his Pisces planets being in your first and second houses, you may feel that his energy is in tune with the way you need to establish yourself as an autonomous individual. On the other hand, after a while you may feel that he is under your feet, so to speak, when you try to establish your autonomy, this being likely to the extent that he has unmet needs around these placements that he expects you to accommodate as you go along.

On the 17th of January, the Saturn transits I mentioned in another post are both within a degree of exactitiude.

Transiting Sun and Mercury have just crossed your natal ascendant and approach your natal Venus, suggesting that this time will be significant in one way or another.

Transiting Venus and transiting Pluto are also conjunct, with both approaching your Sun/Jupiter midpoint (Pluto less than a degree away and Venus almost exactly there), with both transiting planets making sextile aspects (especially close from the faster moving trigger planet Venus) to both Sun and Jupiter. Again, a sense of this being a significant time in some way, and with the Saturn transit to natal Sun and Jupiter as well, it does seem to be a time for you to get more deeply into the watery parts of your nature. It is worth mentioning again that your natal Jupiter is in your 9th house of foreigners.

The two transiting conjunctions mentioned above, with transiting Saturn in the same degree of its respective sign, are worth looking in relation to his chart also, to try to see what expectations he may have for the visit. Also, Transiting Chiron, Jupiter and Uranus are forming a configuration at that time - all between five and six and a half degrees of their respective signs - these have now separated from making aspects to your natal Moon Uranus opposition, but may be triggering something in his chart.

The only thing that jumps out at me from the above list of transits is that his his nodal and horizon axes are conjuncted by transiting Uranus at the moment, with minor aspects from transiting Jupiter and Chiron.

Something else though is that the transiting nodal axis is squaring his natal Moon Saturn opposition. This, and the transits to your watery Sun, tie in nicely with the idea that he is looking for someone through whom to discover more about his more independent side, while you are looking for someone to discover more about your more emotional side.

You both have Pisces Suns, air Moons, so there is obviously some compatibility. But take care about the possibility of polarisation mentioned above.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:30 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Hi. My main thought really is just to proceed with caution, and to be sure that if a relationship is established, that you both have the same expectations. I certainly wouldn't emigrate or allow him to do so until you are very sure, due to his extreme Piscean nature and lack of earth (and lack of air compared to water).

In terms of dating yourself, he is perhaps a kind of caricature of your Piscean Sun because of his three personal planets in Pisces, his Sun Neptune square, and his four personal planets in the 12th house.

Since much of his chart is concentrated between the end of Aquarius and the first part of Aries, it is worth taking note of where these placements are in your chart. With his ascendant, his Aquarius Moon, and his Pisces planets being in your first and second houses, you may feel that his energy is in tune with the way you need to establish yourself as an autonomous individual. On the other hand, after a while you may feel that he is under your feet, so to speak, when you try to establish your autonomy, this being likely to the extent that he has unmet needs around these placements that he expects you to accommodate as you go along.

On the 17th of January, the Saturn transits I mentioned in another post are both within a degree of exactitiude.

Transiting Sun and Mercury have just crossed your natal ascendant and approach your natal Venus, suggesting that this time will be significant in one way or another.

Transiting Venus and transiting Pluto are also conjunct, with both approaching your Sun/Jupiter midpoint (Pluto less than a degree away and Venus almost exactly there), with both transiting planets making sextile aspects (especially close from the faster moving trigger planet Venus) to both Sun and Jupiter. Again, a sense of this being a significant time in some way, and with the Saturn transit to natal Sun and Jupiter as well, it does seem to be a time for you to get more deeply into the watery parts of your nature. It is worth mentioning again that your natal Jupiter is in your 9th house of foreigners.

The two transiting conjunctions mentioned above, with transiting Saturn in the same degree of its respective sign, are worth looking in relation to his chart also, to try to see what expectations he may have for the visit. Also, Transiting Chiron, Jupiter and Uranus are forming a configuration at that time - all between five and six and a half degrees of their respective signs - these have now separated from making aspects to your natal Moon Uranus opposition, but may be triggering something in his chart.

The only thing that jumps out at me from the above list of transits is that his his nodal and horizon axes are conjuncted by transiting Uranus at the moment, with minor aspects from transiting Jupiter and Chiron.

Something else though is that the transiting nodal axis is squaring his natal Moon Saturn opposition. This, and the transits to your watery Sun, tie in nicely with the idea that he is looking for someone through whom to discover more about his more independent side, while you are looking for someone to discover more about your more emotional side.

You both have Pisces Suns, air Moons, so there is obviously some compatibility. But take care about the possibility of polarisation mentioned above.
I am finally beginning to see the slippery and confusing nature I must project. I've been told in the past that I am very difficult to date in the beginning stages and if he is anything like me he flips between what he feels and what he thinks, which are really conflicting and make you act very bizarre. You are right, it is like a caricature of myself..but exaggerated due to his extremely watery chart. I understand what you mean about the polarity, so one issue we may have is just flipping between Moon and Sun and never really ever being in the same emotional state?

I think you may be right that I am looking for someone to help me discover my more emotional side. It is something I definitively keep hidden and am not comfortable exploring (for instance, I usually get uncomfortable during those cheesy moments in romance movies). I do think he views me as different and adventurous (decided to go to London and Amsterdam on my own just randomly and met up with some friends along the way with no set plan), so you could be right on the mark there. I guess something also worth mention is that his mother passed away in late October and I wonder if he is using me as something foreign to escape that? Could be.

Thank you for your insight and I'm going to explore this a little further. When you say look at where Pisces, Aqua and Aries fall in my chart, it would be the first 3 houses. But Mars is in my 8th, Mercury in the 1st and Pisces in the 11th. How does that impact me against him? I'm sorry, I'm not as good as this as you!
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:03 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Hi. Well I guess that its not surprising if you are difficult to date in the early days of a relationship because you have a very independent looking chart. But nothing that I intended to convey in my posts had to do with you having a slippery and confusing nature. We all tend to seek significant others (partners, close colleagues, bosses, close friends etc) who mirror parts of ourselves that we have trouble owning fully for ourselves (which means all parts of our nature to some extent, but some more than others). Relationships of all kinds are halls of mirrors, and so we are all slippery and confusing in that sense.

Just to clarify the point about polarisation, it is a normal and natural part of any relationship. I was just noting that because he is probably emotionally very needy with a small independent streak, and because you are probably very independent with a small needy streak, you may not be able to find enough common ground. In other words a relationship where there is a balance between freedom and closeness might be too claustrophobic for you and/or too detached for him. It is verty common for couples to have this problem and some degree of conscious planning may be needed to re-assure both of you that you will each get your primary needs met and thus that it is safe to venture into the other side of the polarity (ie safe for you to fuse emotionally and safe for him to allow breathing space in the relationship.)

The strongest transits which he was experiencing in October were transiting Uranus and Pluto to the natal ascendant, with a full moon at the very end of September to trigger these long term transits. Transiting Saturn was also aspecting the meridian axis, though by 'soft' aspects, and transiting Jupiter was stationary square the natal Sun. So there is a suggestion that he has been freed to be more fully himself by the death of his mother. Whether he takes up such a challenge, or whether he seeks a mother surrogate, is of course down to him. It could be that the failure of his previous long term relationship was due in part to his relationship with his mother, and that he is now freer to relate more as an adult.

I wouldn't normally be so cautious about a relationship, but I guess I'm looking at the charts in the light of the sentence with which you opened this thread. The astrology suggests to me that your concerns may well be justified.

Looking at where each person's planets land in the other persons chart is not necessarily going to show up any important themes, and isn't something worth doing at this stage of a possible relationship. But since he has a concentration of placements it is worth noting where this concentrated focus appears in your house cycle as this may indicate a significant part of the dynamic between you. If you find yourself trying to use astrology to pre-empt every detail of the relationship before embarking upon it, then you are perhaps not using the most creative balance of intuition and astrological analysis.

Moon in Gemini feels safer when it has all the facts. Moon opposite Uranus may seek to understand the underlying principles behind possible sources of emotional sustenance as an antidote to an expectancy of disruption (with Mercury in Aquarius happy to get involved in this theorising). Also Capricorn needs reassurance, as does Chiron in Taurus on the IC. But I would avoid the temptation to see astrology as having all the answers. This isn't meant in a condescending way. We all clamber for definite answers when we are feeling uncomfortable or uncertain.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Very simple stuff this chart comparison,I seriously doubt that youll ever be settled with his Pluto square Mars And his mars conjunct your Mars Saturn conjunct,i would think the power struggles from him and the hard nosed attitude from you will go on indefinately,Im not surprised your 1st worrds are "is he manipulative..",I doubt he isnt manipulative,Unless hes very self aware he is likely to be in power struggles and coersion and manipulation with most people he knows,It wont be just you,Any male with few exceptions, with Pluto square Mars is bound to be like this.It takes a lot of work on self to master Pluto square Mars.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:10 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Moon in Gemini feels safer when it has all the facts. Moon opposite Uranus may seek to understand the underlying principles behind possible sources of emotional sustenance as an antidote to an expectancy of disruption (with Mercury in Aquarius happy to get involved in this theorising). Also Capricorn needs reassurance, as does Chiron in Taurus on the IC. But I would avoid the temptation to see astrology as having all the answers. This isn't meant in a condescending way. We all clamber for definite answers when we are feeling uncomfortable or uncertain.
As I read this my close friend said to me "lay off the astrology." Too funny.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:53 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

It's been three months so I thought I'd report back and thank you for both for your thoughts.

I do not think he is a manipulative - I think it's more me trying to maintain power and control over myself (because I have a very strong desire to be independent). He actually likes when I banter back and forth with him - perhaps this is his Aries ASC, which I have noticed more and more. Sometimes he's really arrogant and he seems to like when I tell him to shut up and get over himself. I can deal with Aries in small doses and his is playful enough. I've definitely experienced his Aqua moon - to which he seems to have a knee jerk explosion and then apologizes very quickly. There is no sense of pride and he owns up to his mistakes, which I think is really cool because as someone with a Gemini moon I don't really hold grudges and I move on from situations rather quickly.

I do wonder if he does see a little bit of his mom in me. The way he describes his mother (her birthday is today, in fact) is a woman who didn't take any **** and spoke her mind, but in a very diplomatic way - which is a lot like me.

His sun in the 12th house kind of worries me - isn't this a possible sign of someone with substance abuse problems? He is British so drinking is very much ingrained in the culture, so I cannot determine whether it's just the way he was raised (which it seems) or if it's something else.

He has told me that he doesn't want to be with anyone else, but at the same time he has never said we are in a relationship. I operate under the rule of unless you tell me we are committed, we are not. And while I do not have the desire to date anyone else, I still maintain some mystery because I feel like I need full commitment in order to let myself be vulnerable. Sometimes I can be a little withdrawn and I know this bugs him. He is coming to visit me again next weekend and in May and I am going over there in April. I guess we shall see what happens with this trans-atlantic love affair.

THANKS FOR YOUR INSIGHT A FEW MONTHS AGO!!!!
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:03 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

Dear Anjelik

I guess that because you send us an update and revive this thread that you are after any more info we can give before you commit to this man?I feel a strong need to warn you that what i said before was not explained clearly enough,But i think it is also important to remind you of your original first statement which in my opinion suggested that you already at the very least knew that there was something going on,But maybe you needed others opinions to clarify or confirm your suspicions?What can i say but seriously warn you that this relationship is hopeless and possibly even dangerous.I know this sounds a bit OTT,But seriously why write,Quote:"Re:Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just a power struggle?"Unquote.Why did you write this.Something must have happened for you to suggest this?You didn't just say this because you saw the composite chart did you?You experienced something that made you suspicious?,what was it please?We need to know.
I understand that some would maybe suspect something to do with Neptune,,But this planet doesn't fit the keywords
"Manipulative",Deceptive","Power struggle"These are not Neptune's modes,deceptive maybe occasionally,Never Manipulative,Neptune has principals which work against being Egotistical,Selfish,and is therefore against being manipulative and into power struggles for your own needs,As this is not going to achieve Neptune's ultimate need for 'Unconditional Love'.
I can only assume otherwise that you saw the composite chart,You saw the 7th house of this chart,You saw the battle going on there between Pluto,Mars,Saturn etc,You maybe thought that all those Trine's to the 7th from the Moon and Mercury in Aquarius,and the Trine from Jupiter in Gemini could some how overcome this battle,that they could tone it down a bit?Maybe in my hopeful opinion,The fact the corner falls in Libra which is just another 7th house over lay,That it will make relationship paramount,rather than battling with each other?.My own experience of Mars Conjunct Mars in a composite chart is continuous fighting for one up'manship,And this in itself is hard enough to control in one self with out the additional energy that operates below the threshold of consciousness,Namely Pluto.When it works in the 7th it works to change any parts that are not viable, Irrespective of whether we like it or not it will change that part,And if its main aggravation and tools that it has to work with are Mars and Saturn, and Mars and Saturns rather blunt way of sorting things out,It wont care whether you find it all very aggressive and even possibly violent,or not,Pluto will just get on with the job.I keep worrying that i am being OTT myself by saying such things,And maybe i'm exaggerating and i am consequently ruining a possible good relationship,Albeit with a certain amount of arguing and bickering(Moon Sq Mars),or Manipulating and power struggles(Pluto Con Mars Saturn) and( Saturn Sq Mars),With a touch of hard nosed relentlessness)???..... I might be completely wrong,What an idiot and ruin-er i would feel.......I sure hope i am wrong,I sure hope that Libra will hold these things back as they go against its major principals as well,Also the Trine from Jupiter,That's got to be optimistically supportive,Just like the Trine from Moon/Mercury in a socializing and conversational way.....Just something deep down is going to wait its time and get on with the job when its necessary,and hopefully not in to much of a negative way.
Have you noticed that the 2 nodes also fall close to the Square zone?,This suggests,Though doesn't confirm that you have met before and that you maybe need to sort thing out.
Also Neptune sq Venus could be connected in a loving sense.And might be one of the unconscious draws connected to the past,but drawing you together now.
There appear lots of factors pulling you together and trying to be supportive.But ultimately.....sooner or later a storm will brew,It will be very hard not to lose it.Because it creeps up on you.
I will shut up now and wish you well,And try and be a bit more positive in future....honest.... Lol im bad.Please forgive me?
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:29 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

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Dear Anjelik

I guess that because you send us an update and revive this thread that you are after any more info we can give before you commit to this man?I feel a strong need to warn you that what i said before was not explained clearly enough,But i think it is also important to remind you of your original first statement which in my opinion suggested that you already at the very least knew that there was something going on,But maybe you needed others opinions to clarify or confirm your suspicions?What can i say but seriously warn you that this relationship is hopeless and possibly even dangerous.I know this sounds a bit OTT,But seriously why write,Quote:"Re:Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just a power struggle?"Unquote.Why did you write this.Something must have happened for you to suggest this?You didn't just say this because you saw the composite chart did you?You experienced something that made you suspicious?,what was it please?We need to know.
I understand that some would maybe suspect something to do with Neptune,,But this planet doesn't fit the keywords
"Manipulative",Deceptive","Power struggle"These are not Neptune's modes,deceptive maybe occasionally,Never Manipulative,Neptune has principals which work against being Egotistical,Selfish,and is therefore against being manipulative and into power struggles for your own needs,As this is not going to achieve Neptune's ultimate need for 'Unconditional Love'.
I can only assume otherwise that you saw the composite chart,You saw the 7th house of this chart,You saw the battle going on there between Pluto,Mars,Saturn etc,You maybe thought that all those Trine's to the 7th from the Moon and Mercury in Aquarius,and the Trine from Jupiter in Gemini could some how overcome this battle,that they could tone it down a bit?Maybe in my hopeful opinion,The fact the corner falls in Libra which is just another 7th house over lay,That it will make relationship paramount,rather than battling with each other?.My own experience of Mars Conjunct Mars in a composite chart is continuous fighting for one up'manship,And this in itself is hard enough to control in one self with out the additional energy that operates below the threshold of consciousness,Namely Pluto.When it works in the 7th it works to change any parts that are not viable, Irrespective of whether we like it or not it will change that part,And if its main aggravation and tools that it has to work with are Mars and Saturn, and Mars and Saturns rather blunt way of sorting things out,It wont care whether you find it all very aggressive and even possibly violent,or not,Pluto will just get on with the job.I keep worrying that i am being OTT myself by saying such things,And maybe i'm exaggerating and i am consequently ruining a possible good relationship,Albeit with a certain amount of arguing and bickering(Moon Sq Mars),or Manipulating and power struggles(Pluto Con Mars Saturn) and( Saturn Sq Mars),With a touch of hard nosed relentlessness)???..... I might be completely wrong,What an idiot and ruin-er i would feel.......I sure hope i am wrong,I sure hope that Libra will hold these things back as they go against its major principals as well,Also the Trine from Jupiter,That's got to be optimistically supportive,Just like the Trine from Moon/Mercury in a socializing and conversational way.....Just something deep down is going to wait its time and get on with the job when its necessary,and hopefully not in to much of a negative way.
Have you noticed that the 2 nodes also fall close to the Square zone?,This suggests,Though doesn't confirm that you have met before and that you maybe need to sort thing out.
Also Neptune sq Venus could be connected in a loving sense.And might be one of the unconscious draws connected to the past,but drawing you together now.
There appear lots of factors pulling you together and trying to be supportive.But ultimately.....sooner or later a storm will brew,It will be very hard not to lose it.Because it creeps up on you.
I will shut up now and wish you well,And try and be a bit more positive in future....honest.... Lol im bad.Please forgive me?

Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I wrote that because I am suspicious of everyone, really. I really have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to people and if I feel in any way shape or form someone is trying to pull power plays on me, I drop them. So, there was nothing that he did per say. He was a little flaky around the holidays and when I told him I am not playing games and am not interested in him any further he did a 180 and changed his tune completely. We don't argue - we have had disagreements and he can be a little more emotional and dramatic than I am, but in the end it never escalates to anywhere close to the level of intensity I've had with other people. All disagreements never get to the point of aggression and always end with some sort of solution or compromise. So to answer your question, yes, my question did come from looking at some of our aspects and it just made me go into ultra-defense and analyzing-mode.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:57 PM
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Re: Is he manipulative and deceptive or is this just power struggle?

I'm actually on the outside of the synastry - so that's my Mars, Pluto and Saturn all in his 7th House (Libra).

In the composite I see those same planets are also int he 7th house of Virgo and not Libra. Our composite Mercury is in Pisces. My personal Mercury is in Aquarius and his in Pisces.
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