Tragedy at VA Tech

[honeymystic]

Hello friends,

Such a sad day for the States...
and for education and the passion to learn.... and the mounting evidence of a desperate need for us to care more for each other and we must unite to heal societal wounds as well as our own. just unfortunate that it takes a crisis for people to remember or acknowledge or deal with the issues that need love & attention.

i am new here & am excited to find this forum. many thanks.

i have a question re: which "birth time" is the correct one to use when drawing up natal chart for an institution such as a school, museum, hospital, etc.
Most often, I'd assume you'll use the grand opening but...

i looked up Virginia Tech's history to find the school's birth.
One date is the day that the Board appointed the President of VA Tech.
Aug 14, 1872 in Yellow Sulphur Springs, VA in case you want to know.

The other date is the day VA Tech opened which is Oct 1, 1872 in Blacksburg, VA. is this the obvious choice?

Which date is most pertinent?

I did a chart comparison of
aug 14 1872 (inner wheel)
oct 1, 1872 (2nd wheel)
Murder at Dormitory/ VA Tech 7:15 am Blacksburg, VA (3rd wheel)
Massacre in Norris Hall/ VA Tech 9:15 am Blacksburg, VA (outer wheel)

which expressed some striking aspects & very clear themes, Moon, Uranus, Mercury & Jupiter very active,
not to mention the transiting Saturn/ Neptune opposition conjunct the ASC/DSC axis, transiting Neptune being exact on the DSC.
perhaps i'll be able to stay up late one night, i can share detailed impressions. it might also be insightful to compare & contrast these charts to the events at Columbine 8 yrs ago.

thank you in advance for your answer to my question re: which time to use as the official birth time for VA Tech

Light & Love to us all,
honeymystic

[unukalhai]

A horrible tragedy by quite the scumbag. Many media outlets are reporting the suspect wasn't even an American national, but a student from China on a visa. Still no word on a motive or proper ID of the shooter. Of course, many conflicting reports as the police are releasing very little information as of yet. My heart is with the families of the victims, may they be comforted and find peace through faith in the divine.

I consider the 7:15am chart to be the one to use, as this is when the event started to unfold, and agree the opening day of the school is likely the chart you want to look at for the school. Appointment of the first leader could be viewed in relative terms to naming a baby, or something to that nature; but not the "first breath" -- The "first breath" for the school should be when it opened for business... Atleast this is how I've always done charts for organizations/businesses. Of course, the other chart is valid, but likely relates more to leadership and command issues of the school.

The event chart has Pluto (ruler of this extreme sort of violence) right on the 9th house cusp (9th house ruling over universities) which makes a lot of sense and instantly makes me believe I'm looking at the right chart.

Venus is involved in some significant manners. First, she's the ascendant lord for the 7:15am chart, as Taurus rises. The Sun is exactly at the Venus/Uranus midpoint, and the midpoint of Venus and the MC ruler (Saturn) is exactly squared by the Moon. Uranus also sits at the exact midpoint of Venus/Pluto. In short, she rules the chart and is involved in the tightest midpoints. She's also on the cusp of her own 2nd house.

The VE/UR=Sun midpoint becomes real interesting when you consider dispositorship... Venus is the first, Uranus is the last in the tree.
ASC[Tau]=VE
VE[Gem]=ME
ME[Ari]=MA
MA[Pis]=NE
NE[Aqu]=UR
UR[Pis]=NE *WRAP!* (end dispositorship tree)

Venus is futher implicated as the closest conjunction in the transit chart against the October 1st 1872 university chart. It conjuncts the school's North Node by a 10th of a degree, also in tight (2arcmin) sextile to the school's Uranus. Hmm... Venus and Uranus, again. The Moon was also applying a conjunction to the school's Chiron.

Venus is in Gemini, an air element, which means she's operating in her Libra modality, even if she's on the cusp of the earthen second house, which simply indicates her air nature will be played out in the physical (earth) realm. In this case, extracting what might have been considered "justice" (Libra, the scales) against their bodies (2nd house) -- I'd say this guy's intent was to get even for something he felt wronged him, that he was judge jury and executioner in a very literal sense.. Yet without this creeps natal data it's hard to say exactly what was going on. It would be most interesting to see a transit chart for this scumbag...

Also interesting is the Moon's relation to the ongoing Neptune/Pluto septile. At 7:15, when this all started, the Moon was biseptile Pluto by 8arcmin. The exact aspect was at 7:28. The Moon advances to form it's exact aspect to Neptune at 9:31, the time of the conclusion of this event and the dissolution of the scumbag by suicide (escape, Neptune) Thus, the event encompassed the almost exact time-frame it took for the Moon to complete it's exact septile-series aspects to Pluto and then Neptune (7:28 to 9:31) - as well as started with Pluto (the killing) and ending with Neptune (escape by suicide). I doubt that's a mere coincidence.

[lillyjgc]

Hi: I have drawn up an EVENT chart for what happened at Blackburg. I have set the time for the chart at 7:28am which is when I believe the first shot was fired. (Please correct me if you know otherwise, I am depending on news bulletins which say varied times). this puts Taurus 22 deg. as the asc, making Venus the chart ruler in the sign of the raging bull. Venus is approaching a square to mars in H11. I see H11 to represent the fraternity of people living in dormitories, studying . I also feels this links the killer-Mars in impotent and confused pisces to an organisation, perhaps religious as the 11 house is occupied by jupiter-ruled pisces and Jupiter is on the cusp of H8 in sag-the sign associated with places of higher learning- hence a big (jupiter), bad (retro jup) event in the house of death in the college. Retro Jup is also trine retro and debilitated saturn in H4, endings.(Perhaps the killer has been rejected from admission there or separated from his partner who was there.)but with both sat and Jup retro in H4 and H8 a serious event is indicated showing much death and chaos..Jup is also square the moon's nodes (nn.H11 SN H5..) Saturn is also connected to Uranus in H11 by an inconjunct and opp. neptune- a combination of energies that can only be seen as a volatile mix (mental illness?).Mars inH11 is approaching a cj with uranus, the unexpected which is conjuncting the nnode...an ill-fated event..The moon is at 12 deg Aries, (The sabian symbol for this position is: <A bomb which has failed to explode is now safely concealed>..Does this suggest there was an accomplice of some kind who got away?). Moon in hot headed aries is sep. from a cj to mercury, (stirring up of emotions? A communique that changed everything????). The sabian symbol for Mercury 9 deg Aries is <a scholar creates new forms for ancient symbols> - moon is applying to a trine with retro jupiter and a trine to retro sat,,thus linking these three planets very specifically. The moon is headed toward a cj with the sun- a combustion with the sun..The sun is in H12, along with the moon, mercury and pars fortuna - the house of secret sorrows and self undoing......the sun which gives life is applying to a trine with retro jupiter on cusp of H8 (death) and the sun is square the MC.and closely square the cusp of H4 (end of the matter)..that the killer took his own life is described by this aspect.
This debilitated saturn is square the asc, as is also Neptune in Saturn's sign...The arabic parts show the moon is conjunct catastrophe. The north node is opposite fatality. Pluto is square the MOTHER (might provide psychological insight into the killer..). Curiously retr Jupiter is trine PLAY....was he hallucinating, on drugs maybe? The mars in pisces suggests he might have been delusional...With Cap on the MC, the mother/saturn/neptune theme is highlighted..... So sad for all of you over there in America.... Love, Lillyjgc

[AquarianEssence]

Every report I've read says 9:15am when the police received 911. A young woman and man were killed in the dorm. About 2 hours at 9:26 the school officials sent out emails to advise caution. About the same time the other building was hit. The shooter's name is Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior in the university's English department who lived on campus. Authorities said he was a legal resident of the United States....(a senior from South Korea). I believe his family has been here 14 years. His birth data is Jan 18, 1984, S. Korea. I don't know the time or city. His motive seems to be both domestic and anomosity against the campus. He was tracking down his girlfriend according to reports.

[honeymystic]

wow, thank you all!
unukalhai, reminding me of the first breath thing makes me go,"oh yeah".
thanks :-)
I am not as familiar & don't use midpoints regularly so what you shared is appreciated particularly for that reason. The septile you honed in on is very synchronistic & I would not have picked up on it right away. whoa...

lillyjgc, yes, what you have shared is along the lines of what I picked on when I briefly looked. You are right on target, as far as I can tell, judging from the new details coming out Ho Seung Hui.
&
AquarianEssence, thanks so much for the birth data of the perpetrator & all the info you offered. I was wondering how I'd get his birth data.

I will really try to contribute some insight as soon as I am able, on some topic or another... I'd like to look more closely at Cho Seung-Hui's chart, since I started the conversation...

From all media reports, this young man was deeply, deeply disturbed, isolated & anti-social. Probably fell through cracks, parents not dealing w/ or knowing the signs, teachers tried to reach out, perhaps he was not medicated, as some people need to be in order to function.... etc. Pluto, Neptune issues, w/ transiting Mars applying to transiting Uranus, lets see death, fanaticism (sag/9th), delusions & the need for pharmaceuticals (or lack of getting proper)(pisces/neptune, access to meds perhaps being an Aqaurian issue), suppressed hostility (Mars/Pisces) & rage is suddenly unleashed (Uranus) on a community/dorm/students (11th), death at a college (Pluto ingress from 8th to 9th)... religion (all the Pisces & 12th house activity) could be involved but it could also be the harsh cultural stigma of mental illness that still exists in most societies, & maybe ALOT more in S Korea. (I know personally several examples of this stigma & subsequent denial that sets in, because families/ people are at a loss & seriously have no clue what to do & lack the healthcare options to confront the issue at all.) Not dealing, pushing the problems under the rug, collectively is also 12th house, right?
omigosh, I forgot Venus in Gemini(media) being the chart ruler & the square to Mars(there IS a story about a girl being a motive) + Pluto for obsession..... AND I forgot Jupiter. this being based on the school's opening & the event chart.
it's so much more complex than that I know....... so, I'll have to start at the ASC w/ Ho Seung Hui's chart & get back to you, unless you beat me to it.

As an american (w/ a little A :-(, I am deeply concerned about our culture of violence & have been since I was a child.
I cannot help but make the connections between the violence that we, as a nation are perpetrating against many peoples in the world (& ourselves) and the rising tide of mental illness, anger, despair & violence as it is currently playing out here.
so, I personally have been in anguish about the suffering that "other" children & parents & elders, men & women are experiencing on a daily basis the world over from violence that my country chose to ignite & chooses to perpetuate, as well as that of the more "senseless" kind (all of it seems senseless to me all the time.
just had to get that out but it's a BIG ball o wax.
that said, i won't talk politics here if it's not the appropriate thread or if it is not appropriate at all...........

when I am reading or typing here, I am enjoying but procrastinating "work" that I "should" be doing to pay my rent (although I find this pursuit to be noble & endlessly informative & valuable).
so, all this to say, thank you, thank you & i'll pop in when i have less overwhelm.

Peace please,
Honeymystic

[lillyjgc]

here's the chart (hopefully!) lillyjgc

[unukalhai]

Wow cool, good job on finding the birth date.. Thank you

- He has a fairly close natal Mars/Pluto conjunction at the 3-4th degrees of Scorpio. This is some serious energy here, as the Mars/Pluto combination can be extremely ruthless and violent if mishandled, or show incredible strength, tenacity and resilience if handled in a more position manner. These two planets are anything but docile and tame when paired! At the time of the shooting, the transiting Mars/Pluto midpoint (3Aqu19) was square to his natal Mars/Pluto conjunction, the square closer to Mars than Pluto. t.Uranus was also trioctile his Pluto by a mere 6arcmin.

- I think this started building up around his Solar return this year. I say this because at the time of the shooting, the Sun was applying a square to his natal Sun. In other words, he was at the first big turning point (waxing square) in his yearly Sun-Sun cycle which makes that cycle very important. Looking at his Solar return is quite interesting. Assuming he was born when the Sun rose (Sun on ascendant, or "solar" chart) in Seoul, his Solar Return Sun would have been at the almost exact midpoint of a <1 degree orb transiting Jupiter/Uranus square. This was a major configuration earlier this year. Mars was conjuncting his natal Jupiter/Neptune conjunction, and the transiting Jupuier/Uranus square would not only midpoint his Sun, but t.Jupiter would conjunct n.Uranus. t.Uranus would then be in almost exact (9arcmin) square to his natal Uranus, showing the t.JU/UR square lit up his natal Sun/Uranus semisquare. Much simpler to express graphically:



According to further news articles today, he purchased the first firearm on Feb 9th, which would be when a Venus/Jupiter square lined up with his nodes, Jupiter conjuncting the south node and Venus t-squaring the nodal axis. Assuming he was born sometime around sunrise (as the Moon moves fast) Mars would have also been in opposition to his Moon. Transiting Moon would conjunct his Saturn that evening. On this day, the Sun conjuncted Neptune, activating the Saturn/Neptune opposition. He would buy the second weapon, the Glock 19 semiautomatic pistol, on March 16th, a day the Moon conjuncted Neptune, again activating the Saturn/Neptune opposition. Earlier, the previous evening (Mar 15th), the Moon had joined a very tight conjunction of Mars and Chiron to form quite the close orbed (1/3 degree) triple conjunction.

Also interesting is the close proximity of the event to his nodal square. As happens to everyone around his age, the transiting nodal axis squares the natal nodal axis, (and does so every ~9 years) indicating an important point of tension in one's self-unfoldment. No doubt this pressure added to his stress. The nodal square would have occurred this Thursday, had he not set himself upon this despicable path of senseless violence.

Anyways, I'm sure there is _alot_ more to all this, but thats what sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

Lilly, the chart came up really small, I think you linked to the thumbnail instead of the full size image... doh!

edit to add: the dates of the weapons purchases seem to vary by source... The March 16th and Feb 9th dates were mentioned in the article
http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBYVXI9N0F.html

The wiki page created for this incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shootings
states the second firearm was purchased on the 13th.

[AquarianEssence]

I hypothetically chose Seoul, S. Korea as his birth place and it appears from a new article I may be right. I saw this incident fitting very clearly into my World Ingress chart I've posted about elsewhere. Here is a post I just put on Noel Tyl's forum about Cho.

I've often notice the person's cusps are repeated at personal events. Adjusting the chart to 12:14:53pm JST the ascendant is repeated exactly. I may have the right city, since a news article mentions them coming from a suburb of Seoul, being very poor. This puts his Mars-Pluto applying conjunct to the descendant 2* and 3* which distance tends to intensify (2) and exaggerate (3) the aspect. Karmic 15Leo/Aq along 5/11 supports an important event concerning large group and school attended. Most importantly, I think, if we assign the 12th house to death by suicide then the 19Pisces 12th cusp fits very well with Aries/Libra intercepted there since with the first shooting both Moon and Ceres (enraged over her loss, punishing others)were at the solstice point, contra-antiscion of this 12th cusp. One important Solar arc to support this time is in 1992, Solar arc Sun is square this ascendan. At death Solar Arc Pluto is the square the solstice point of Ascendant, SA Uranus trine this ascendant. Solar arc 12th cusp is the degree of Moon at death, critical 13Aries. I read he had inscribed the letters, ISMAILAX on the inside of one arm. This probably means Ishmael, ax. Ishmael is the oldest son of Abraham but didn't receive the rights of the firstborn because he was born to a servant. Isaac received those rights. In fact, Ishmael and his mother were outcasts. The name means god will hear. He was sort of a step son. Cho wrote a play involving a stepson that has been posted somewhere on line I think, by a fellow student. When instructed to sign in at a class he simply signed with a question mark, thus being known to some as simply ?. Notice how similar this is to Ceres. Mars is now conjunct his Ceres and is the solstice point of his Progressed 6/12.
This interception describes someone with a struggle to balance his perception of himself and his value as he tries to fit into the world filled with double standards and and a wide gap between the haves and have nots. The deficiency shown by the 2nd/8th lack of self worth is projected onto his arm through the name Ishmael. The sign of self is intercepted and hidden away in the 12, remaining unknown. His father was reported to have said that they needed to immigrate to the US so they could be somewhere so he isn't known. That is bound to make a very strong impression on an 8 year old, making it all the harder to release that hidden self. They had to fingerprint and match immigration records because he carried no ID, wishing to remain unknown. He disfigured his face, the other means of identity. He wrote about the unfairness of the rich, fitting the Taurus ascendant.
Progressing this chart puts Venus at 19Cap on the 9th house (university) cusp and is opposing his Moon. Venus is sextile the natal and 1st shooting 12th cusp where she is exalted. The tertiary chart puts the last eclipse degree on the 2nd with Aries/Libra intercetped in 2/8. Tertiary Venus is square the Moon with 1st shootin, and Jupiter square the Moon at 2nd shooting (Jupiter rules the 8th-death), Tert.Neptune at Aries point.
There are many confirmations here, not even touching on the asteroids or other things.

Edit to add, An article I read said the guns were purchased on Feb. 9 and March 12. On Feb 9, Moon sextiled the MC of the chart I am supposing with Sun sextile the asc. ruler, Venus. Also Moon conjoined his Saturn. On March 12, Moon aspected natal asc., Mars, Pluto, Mercury, Neptune and Jupiter. This fits.

[unukalhai]

Originally Posted by AquarianEssence

I've often notice the person's cusps are repeated at personal events. Adjusting the chart to 12:14:53pm JST the ascendant is repeated exactly.

Bravo for a great technique! I have not thought of using such a technique before, but I must say I will remember this technique. Thank you for sharing

Most notable is how his Jupiter/Neptune conjunction sits bang on the 9th house Koch cusp using this ascendant. It really speaks for how the highly idealized energy of the Jupiter/Neptune conjunction plays out in his philosophical/religious mind, as there was mention of religious themes in his vulgar display of pent up rage, and the "Ishmael Ax" jazz is obviously a reference to his self-perceived notion of being some sort of martyr. So deranged and downright sad. Mars/Pluto being on an angle is also highly relevant, as you had mentioned. Moon on it's own angle, the IC, as well as it's own sign, Cancer, seems to show his strong emotional potential, thus the potential for hurt feelings factoring largely into the event, which he made clear by many means.

Also, I failed to notice one thing in my analysis. Well ok, I'm sure I missed many things, but one thing that I should have not missed, as I was already "on" to it... hehe. I had shown how the Jupiter/Uranus square factored powerfully into his solar return, and how the Mars/Pluto midpoint that dreadful morning was square to his Mars/Pluto conjunction. However, what I didn't notice, was that morning both the Jupiter/Uranus midpoint and the Mars/Pluto midpoint were squaring his Mars/Pluto conjunction. The transiting midpoints were 3Aqu16 (JU/UR) and 3Aqu19 (MA/PL). Using AquarianEssence's technique to time his natal chart, his Mars is at 3Sco33 and Pluto at 2Sco02. This puts the square from both these midpoints inbetween his natal MA/PL conjunction! Yozer.

He seemed to make a strong point about how he couldn't stand all the overly rich kids, debauchery, etc etc... The negative, excessive side of Venus expressed in our society, in so many words. Noticing Pluto hadn't advanced that far from his Venus at the event, it showed that he would have had a Pluto/Venus conjunction within the past few years, of course. The last hit was on November 4th, 2004. I consider this important as Pluto has alot to do with efficiency, eliminating waste, and ensuring the sustainability of anything. I'm undergoing this transit now, and can very much relate to revulsion at pomp and excess. Certainly under this energy one notices how that some people, often undeserving, have riches way beyond the need of the average person yet not far away a person possibly more deserving may be desperate for a meal and shelter. Life isn't fair, it's just something that has to be accepted and one must work to better these things, not shoot people over it... But anyways, back to the point, at that last transit, not only was Pluto on his Venus, but Saturn was forming an almost exact opposition to his Sun while Chiron sat on the Midheaven opposing his Moon and the South Node was almost exactly on his Pluto and the Sun was applying a conjunction to his Saturn. I think this lineup left him with a very bad "taste in his mouth" regarding the Pluto/Venus experience, and deepened his hate and jealousy of those with riches beyond his own. It left him feeling sure he'd never achieve (mutual Sun/Saturn transits) it for himself even though he was going to a well recognized school and would have had more opportunity than many people. So sad, because in our society that piece of paper will go so far. I see how many people with even mediocre work skills can get high paying jobs simply based on interview skills and a degree from a good school. He would have had it made. Again, so sad.

Also, the wound he received through these experiences was brought to a climax when the March 18th Solar Eclipse fell on his Sun/Chiron midpoint.

Life wasn't easy for him.. He had some serious energy to face but he chose to take the path of the coward and bottle up his rage rather than get help. He turned down the long arm of the law, his friends and peers, everyone around him, who (from everything I read) made many attempts to help him. He was in a psychiatric facility atleast once, and was even deemed dangerous by a court. What's so sad about this is he turned down and shut out professional help. I'm convinced that if he opened up to a trained healer, this all could have been avoided. This should serve as a lesson to us all, that if we feel that much inner rage, there are many trained people who live to help.

In his "manifesto" as released by MSNBC, he showed a picture of himself holding two weapons captioned "Let the revolution begin" -- I must say, revolution through violence never works and only damages the cause of the revolutionary. Revolution is property of Uranus, an air planet, and thus true revolution plays out through dialog and through the intellect of the revolutionary mind. Those who stoop to violence in the name of revolution are pathetic and only cause convolution. It utterly disgusts me to see anyone use violence in the name of revolution, be it this coward or any of the violent wannabe revolutionaries called "terrorists" today. He only set back the cause of today's revolutionary and caused endless amounts of pain.

[AquarianEssence]

Thank you. I've noticed my own cusps repeated several times, and my husbands with events. But even it this isn't his real birth time, it helps to align his energy with the events. Good catch on the midpoint square. That is important. In looking at that I just noticed his Venus being quindecile Jupiter who was 1 degree away from natal Venus that day. This is important because Venus co-rules the 6th of the first shooting through interception and Jupiter rules both the 8th and 9th. The upheaval and separation of the quindecile would be on the side of Jupiter, fitting the mass deaths. Sad, that Jupiter in his own sign would act so poorly. But that is the case with religious zealots, I'm afraid. The only thing that seems strange here is that Jupiter is Rx, pulling away from this quindecile. But perhaps that can be read as obsessing on the past rather than looking to the future. Or perhaps it represents Jupiter standing in judgement, looking back to where she had come from. I understand he killed her in the stairwell as she was returning from her boyfriends house that morning. That would fit with the interception Sag on 8 being projected onto 9 in the way I interpret interceptions. Sadly, when people add the power of God and righteous indignation to their arsenal of justifications they are capable of great violence and upheaval (Aries intercepted, Mars in Pisces, Neptune mutual reception with Uranus). The Libra interception shows the imbalance between the worker and the one being served. I agree with him on that one. He probably watched his parents working long hard hours for very little. But he had more advantages than me or a lot of others. Sad. I feel for his parents and sister, and for all touched by this, including him. This is a heavy burden to carry forward.

[Sag Moon]

As long as this individual's planets are mostly below the Horizon at birth I can go with any number of times for birth.

The one that I found to make sense to me using the progressed chart and Solar Arc charts is 2:20am as he would have had Sn conj. IC for his final curtain call.

It would also place the advanced asc close to Saturn and this person showed marked depression and signs of saturn when video tapeing what he was doing this for.

If you use 2:20am you will also see Scorpio rising and the Ma\Pl in the 12th. He had a lot of negative to deal with.Then Ma would just be hititng the asc in the progressed chart to carry oout his deeds. All that anger and restiction came to the asc and it needed release which would have been through the Progressed Moon in the 7th.

It would alos place Vertex which at birth would have been in the 8th to hit the Natal Moon which means that these energies would be made public through the nnatal 9th moon.The place of Higher education and mass media.

Hey,but that's only my outlook. This person is a strange and hard person to be sure to try to get a correct rectified chart on and I have been working and listening to a whole lot of what has been said.

Saturn in Scorpio asc. with Mars\Pluto in the 12th seem like the signature of this demented spirit.To add to it the progressed MC was squaring Uranus in the second as for his values which he strongly identified with.

[AquarianEssence]

One article I read that week said they had spoken to a neighbor where they lived in Seoul. Supposedly this person said the father mentioned needing to move to where no one knew them. With Cho signing his name ?, as reported later, I'm very surprised, if this is true, no one has followed up on it. If an 8 year old child is uprooted hearing this he would have the idea he needs to be unknown or might question who he is. Just a thought. Since its the only article I read like that, maybe it wasn't factual. I wish I could remember what paper it was, I'd write them.

[Sag Moon]

I have not taken the time to keep up with the press on him.

His aunt or grandmother said that he was a very depressed kid to begin with.

I think using Saturn conjunct Asc at birth makes mre sense then anything else.Look at the SP chart and the transits and it fits.Mars would have progressed to the Asc at the time of the shootings and Ne would have been at the IC. The Sn in both the SA and SP charts would have been at the IC.

Only Mn\Ma\Pl above the Horizon at birth.

He was clearly a disturbed introvert.

2:20am Seoul would place the asc as Scorpio wiith Saturn conjunct.

I am through ttrying to figure him out as I think they will get his Birth Certificate soon and then it will show what he had.

[AquarianEssence]

You might be right. Is someone trying to get his birth certificate? One thing I have to say though, is all the planets below the horizon must not always make someone an introvert. I've very outgoing and not a private person much at all. All I have above the horizon is Jupiter and Uranus in 12. My husband is super outgoing and he has an even split. My ex is a super introvert and has 7 above. My most extroverted children have all below the horizon and even split. I think it depends on which planets and the sign. The introvert with every thing above the horizon but severly challenged by sign nature will make a big difference, especially if its the Sun, Moon or Venus.

[Sag Moon]

I imagine also that those having an extrovert Moon,Sun and\or Ascendant would make a difference.Thanks for pointing that out.

I saw a chart I asked the person weather they thought themselves an Introvert having all planets under the Horizon and their answer was yes,
Extrovert\Introvert-I see now that it also depends on the other factors.

This person ,Cho,seems from what I have read to be very introverted and fixated.Therefore he seems to have had Fixed signs highlighted in his chart.

Anyway I am finishished looking at this guys chart as I have come to the time I think suits him best and many have done work,but never gave a valid reason for how they came to it.
After reading of a 2:30 time I thought I would try that,but it still did not fit for me. One came with a Venus conj. asc which I could not agree with either.He was not exactly a Venesian person.Nothing screamed of an flair for anything ,but personal introversion and a stoic attitude.The singleton Moon also has to be above the horizon.

To answer your question about the searching for his TOB I am just making an assumption as there has to be one that knows when he was born or at what time of day and the Koreans I bet arer meticulous at keeping such records.

As to another question that you had worked on with me about a configuration of Ur\Pl sq time that will come in 6\2010 I don't think now it's going to be an accident ,but something else.I used a Mars return chart for that time. All I can do is wait and see.