Sidereal vs. Tropical, Natal

[Libra20]

Today's other thread about Sidereal vs. Tropical solar returns got me interested in posting re: the natal chart. I've often read how many say that Sidereal is more accurate. I recently ran my Sidereal natal chart and it switches me from a Libra sun to a Virgo sun. Not only that, but it leaves me with zero planets in Libra. I fit the Libra profile so well, that at least for me, I don't see how my Sidereal chart could be accurate. It also switches my Moon from Virgo to Leo which does not fit me at all, either. I've looked at a few other charts of people I know and the Tropical chart appears to fit better for all of them.

Has anyone else done this comparison and which system fits their natal chart better?
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FoxyMegan

[Libra20]

Full Moon,

You bring up an interesting point. If you spend much of your life identifying with your chart using the system that you are used to, how much of it is subconscious suggestion and therefore fitting yourself into that system.

I've only been studying astrology for a couple years, so I hadn't indentified myself with being a Libra (and the other aspects) for most of my life. However, now that I know about astrology, my Tropical chart fits me extremely well, especially, my Libran sun.

I do find it fascinating that you say that Cancer fit you well, but now looking at the Sidereal chart, that Gemini you are seeing in yourself more. Cancer and Gemini are sooooo different. At least the ones I know

I do have some Virgo traits, but I attribute the more to the fact that my Tropical chart has 4 planets and the south node in Virgo, than my Sidereal sun being there. Being a Libra, I do like to look at both sides, but I just don't see it here
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Vaporizer one

[Lissa]

I have to say some things in my sidereal chart sound completely wrong as well .I've been interested in astrology ever since I was a child and,although I only started trying to get deeper in it last summer,I used to read my horoscope on the papers and read my (Piscean)Sun's descriptions,and some of the things said about me seemed so wrong..I used to read Piscean's were so sensitivite and sweet and dreamy and considerate with other's and I saw myself being so impulve and egoccentric that I just thought:"Wow!".When I discovered birth charts,seeing my triple Aries placement seemed so right.My sidereal chart gives me the Sagitarius Ascendant I've always wanted(why wasn't I born15minutes earlier?????),but it puts my Moon and Mecury in Pisces,plus Mars in Taurus,plus Jupiter in Cancer !Too feminine for me !

[astro.teacher]

Sidereal and Tropical are two completely different systems of Astrology, they will both be accurate because they come from the same root, however the INTERPRETATIONS of each system are quite different. Reading Indian interpretations of Sidereal charts are a lot different then European Tropical charts and therefore I do not believe you can make a comparison to "which one is more accurate". They are both accurate because they both have a system behind them and using that system you will get accurate results. You cannot mix Tropical Astrology with Sidereal and therefore many people tend to see their charts as incorrect when they do this. Understand both systems then make the judgment upon which you prefer.

[StarNur]

Hmmm, I still have alot to learn about theory...this is an area Im completely lacking. Just havent had the time and patience to read up on the history and science behind it.

Sorry I had to bring this topic down to basics...But I came across this related Bill Nye the Science guy (who by no means is an expert in astrology) video...teehee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQPFoDkGFrU

Is it true the "Babylonians made all this (astrology) up" 2000 years ago? I thought it was used for much longer than this?!?

There was a rebuttal to Bill Nye's video from an astrologer by the name of James Young: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPVAY...elated&search=

What I got from James Young is that astrologers only consider the zodiac positions (I guess those who use tropical astrology?), and do not consider the constellations (those who use the constellations use sidereal astrology?).

Im still not sure, but do (tropical) astrologers really use the zodiac positions based on the constellations from 2000 years ago? Or has it always been relative to the sun, and the zodiac signs so happened to align with the constellations then? (I hope Im making sense)

[Michael]

The use of tropical astrology is a major point
of attack by skeptics. I don't think that Ptolemy
would be using the tropical zodiac now, he would
make the needed corrections as he did in his time.
However it seems people have misunderstood him.

[unukalhai]

Skeptics generally don't know much about what they blather about. They really should spend more effort constructively applying their intellect rather than telling everyone else they're wrong. Reminds me of the egg frying on the old "this is your mind on drugs" commercials :P

Ask an astronomer, who knows nothing of astrology: "How do you determine where the first longitudinal degree of the ecliptic is?" After all, a circle has no start or end, so some intelligent method must be applied to define where the "zero degree" point is. In astrological terms, what you're asking him is "where is 0 Aries?"

He'll tell you: "Where the celestial equator intercepts the ecliptic"

You can see this, plain as day, with any astronomy sky mapping application which has the capability to display both the ecliptic and celestial equator, such as Starry Night Pro. Hold you cursor over the intersection of these lines and it will show you 0 degrees ecliptical longitude.

This point of intersection is also the location of the equinoxes, and thus the Aries/Libra axis of the tropical zodiac.

If we want to be "star-real" and use the constellations objects are actually in, we need to add some constellations to the ecliptic! How do we interpret that Mercury, during it's last retrograde, dipped south of the ecliptic into Orion, and that Jupiter is really in Ophiuchus now?

Using sidereal positions dates back to the days when we thought everything else revolved around the earth and had no understanding of the astrophysics of our universe. There's nothing "star real" about it, sidereal fails to account for the 13th constellation the ecliptic does pass through, fails to follow the actual width of the constellations of which none are 30 degrees, and fails to account for the slowly-changing nature of existence on earth (shown by precession). What it does do is lock the degrees of the ecliptic to far-away stars that have nothing to do with our solar system, because back in those days no better method was available. Thankfully scientists have expanded their knowledge of our universe and solar system, and we are able to benefit from this knowledge astrologically.

That the 30-degree increments of the ecliptic have anything to do with the constellations is bogus, IMHO. It just doesn't add up. They are separate and should be seen as such. As in Jupiter is under the cosmic influence of the constellation Ophiuchus but pours this cosmic energy into what I call the "9th solar principle", more commonly known as Tropical Sagittarius. Thus, there is a link between The Serpent Bearer and The Archer through Jupiter. Which do we experience? We live in a solar consciousness, so our experience is through the solar principles, however it is not irrelevant that these solar principles are colored by and connected to the cosmic principles.

[QuaOs]

As of my understanding, tropical zodiac system aligns to the Ecliptic, on "Solar plane" (as said "Solar principle") when sidereal zodiac system aligns to "Earth plane".

Then we can say that one's tropical chart gives the view on ego, "the who", that person as an individual, which goes along well with Western principle. On the other hand, one's sidereal chart gives the view on life process, "the who in where", that person as a part of the world/society, which goes along well with Eastern/Asian principle.

Additionally, equinoxes and solstices - which tropical system is aligned to - constitute the four major "turning points" of solar power, the four major pillars of seasons, associated with ancient festivals and rites i.e. Pagan Sabbaths. This might be what really give strength to tropical system, even if the earth plane seemed "nearer" and more apparent to us.

P.S. I'm in western astrology now, but also had some glimses to Thai and Chinese astrology.

[vishnukumar]

The constellations are very far away from the solar system, light years away!
Does it mean their vibrations have no impact on us?
The zodiac is like a window. If you look straight, you will see certain groups of constellations. If you turn your head a little this way or that, you will see a different group. So, it is not the proximity that matters, but the vibrations exerted by the stars. Sidereal zodiac is more relevant than the tropical.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by Libra20

Today's other thread about Sidereal vs. Tropical solar returns got me interested in posting re: the natal chart. I've often read how many say that Sidereal is more accurate. I recently ran my Sidereal natal chart and it switches me from a Libra sun to a Virgo sun. Not only that, but it leaves me with zero planets in Libra. I fit the Libra profile so well, that at least for me, I don't see how my Sidereal chart could be accurate. It also switches my Moon from Virgo to Leo which does not fit me at all, either. I've looked at a few other charts of people I know and the Tropical chart appears to fit better for all of them.

Has anyone else done this comparison and which system fits their natal chart better?

There is no "sidereal versus tropical" Libra. That is only in the minds of those who falsely think there is a difference. As a classical astrologer, I use both the zodiac, and the constellations. To practice astrology, one has to, or one isn't an astrologer. The zodiac, as we know it, is basically the seasons, and the contacts of the zodiacal path along the path of the Sun, Moon, and planets. The constellations are just as important, and must be used as well in all forecasting.