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Old 08-16-2012, 03:24 AM
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Sarah Joy Sarah Joy is offline
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which house is in-laws?

i've been finding contradicting information on this. does anyone know which house in the chart represents in-laws?

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Old 08-16-2012, 04:29 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: which house is in-laws?

Using Western house affinities:
-mother in law = 10th from the 7th
-father in law = 4th from the 7th
-husband's (or wife's) siblings = 3rd from the 7th
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:27 AM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

dr. farr,

As Mother is 4th .. did you mean 4th from 7th is Mother in law?


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Old 08-16-2012, 05:34 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: which house is in-laws?

No, in Western astrology mother is (and always has been) affinitive to the 10th house!
This has been one of the significant differences, historically, regarding house affinity allocations, between Western and Vedic astrological traditions (in the West the 4th has always been allocated to the father! As you know, most Vedic astrologers assign the 10th to the father, while many South Indian practitioners and Nadi practitioners, assign the 9th to the father)
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:43 AM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

dr. farr

Many thanks for clarification.

Did not know about these differences.

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:02 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
No, in Western astrology mother is (and always has been) affinitive to the 10th house!
This has been one of the significant differences, historically, regarding house affinity allocations, between Western and Vedic astrological traditions (in the West the 4th has always been allocated to the father! As you know, most Vedic astrologers assign the 10th to the father, while many South Indian practitioners and Nadi practitioners, assign the 9th to the father)
I never understood the reasoning behind why the mother is the 10th house. Wouldn't the fathers have a greater role in crafting our public identities and reputations?

For starters children are typically placed into the social class that their fathers are in. Then everyone also takes their father's surname not their mother's.

Although the reasoning and logic behind why the mother is the 10th is faulty to me, I will say that my 10th house lines up well with my mother.

The 10th house is naturally ran by Saturn, who has connotations to the father principle.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:33 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
I never understood the reasoning behind why the mother is the 10th house. Wouldn't the fathers have a greater role in crafting our public identities and reputations?

For starters children are typically placed into the social class that their fathers are in. Then everyone also takes their father's surname not their mother's.

Although the reasoning and logic behind why the mother is the 10th is faulty to me, I will say that my 10th house lines up well with my mother.

The 10th house is naturally ran by Saturn, who has connotations to the father principle.
If you think about the bolded part, you can see why the father is given to the 4th. Roots, the home and heritage, as well family including surname. Carrying that thought further it is only logical to give the 10th to the mother. Remember our chart is not only about us. The 10th is the 7th from the 4th. That's why the 10th is the mother. It isn't that the mother has influence over our 10th, but that the mother is seen as the marriage partner of the father.

If you look at the Thema, you'll also see that Libra was the "original" natural 4th house, the domicile of Venus (associated with the mother) and the exaltation of Saturn (associated with the father.) So mom lives there, but dad is exalted there.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:09 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

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If you think about the bolded part, you can see why the father is given to the 4th. Roots, the home and heritage, as well family including surname. Carrying that thought further it is only logical to give the 10th to the mother. Remember our chart is not only about us. The 10th is the 7th from the 4th. That's why the 10th is the mother. It isn't that the mother has influence over our 10th, but that the mother is seen as the marriage partner of the father.

If you look at the Thema, you'll also see that Libra was the "original" natural 4th house, the domicile of Venus (associated with the mother) and the exaltation of Saturn (associated with the father.) So mom lives there, but dad is exalted there.
I see it clearer now. Traditionally, our father gives us our roots, home, and heritage. The 10th has to do with our own individual accomplishments, so it's what we set out to do on our own no daddy involved.

I didn't know Libra used to run the 4th house. Does this have to do with that ancient train of thought where Cancer Boys Asc is the natural place for the Asc to be?
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:26 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

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Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
I see it clearer now. Traditionally, our father gives us our roots, home, and heritage. The 10th has to do with our own individual accomplishments, so it's what we set out to do on our own no daddy involved.

I didn't know Libra used to run the 4th house. Does this have to do with that ancient train of thought where Cancer Boys Asc is the natural place for the Asc to be?
I'm not sure what you mean by "Cancer Boys Asc" but yes, that train of thought. I have a thread here to explore it, maybe worth reading if for no other reason than to try to understand why things were thought to be the way they were?

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=52099
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:53 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "Cancer Boys Asc" but yes, that train of thought. I have a thread here to explore it, maybe worth reading if for no other reason than to try to understand why things were thought to be the way they were?

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=52099
Cancer Boys = Cancer

I'm checking it out right now. What I like so far is how they associate the Moon with accumulating and gathering resources. Cancer Boys is actually a very important influence among legendary businessmen. Modern Western gives no respect to Cancer Boys in this regard. Capricorn wrongfully gets the credit for being the businessheads and are overrated in this aspect.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:23 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

Just a footnote to what Dr. Farr and tsmall have already said.

The idea that the 4th house is associated with the mother is a modern astrology idea, not one that goes back to traditional astrology. The idea among some modern astrologers was that the numerical order of the houses was the same as the numerical order of the signs. So the 4th house should equate to Cancer, which is ruled by the moon. The moon rules mothers, so the 4th house should be Mom.

The 4th house can be understood as parents generally, but traditionally the 4th is Dad. Then his wife would be the 7th house from the 4th, or 10th house.

Derived houses can give you meanings that really don't relate to the base meanings of the house. Like your sister-in-law's cat would be the 7th from the 3rd (brother's wife) or 9th house, then pets are a 6th house matter, so the cat would be in the 2nd house.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:43 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

I would look at:

Mother in Law = 10 (4th from 7th) (oh, that's interesting)
Father in Law = 3 (9th from 7th)
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:07 AM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

if I might digress a little: using the derivative formulations, I have always thought that the 9th represents in-laws as the fourth of the 5th house being that it is the source through which children are brought into being as a result of the union of families coming together; often the bonds of inlaws are strengthed through the advent of the children being born, as grandchildren...but then perhaps it is more about the relationship between the grandparents and their grandchildren. As per our own grandparents it seems plausible that these would also fall under the influence of the 10th and 4th house axis, considering that the 4th is also about heritage and connections to the past, ruled by the Moon and Saturn.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:59 AM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

i've always thought the in-laws were 9th house as well and i've used the same formula of 4th house from the 5th. interesting...
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:21 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

There may be (obviously) some historical and cultural differences that have created the seeming differences of rulership over the same thing, in this case in-laws.

The 9th rules long distance, as well as law itself (or the practicing of law). So, it is possible that in some culture (I'm not familiar with sorry to say for the lack of any precise reference) in-laws were generally very distant, foreign and possibly in some position to execute the law or family laws of some sort.

Now, however, since this is no longer the cultural norm, in-laws simply function as legal family members your spouse. In the ancient past, this relationship might have been vastly different than it is today.

It gets sticky and I'll give you a good example. In the case of adopted children obviously the father and mother of the adopted child are not the 'real' mother and father. Yet, they (the parents in this example) would still be signified by the 4th (father) and 10th (mother) because, for all intents and legal and realistic purposes, they are the parents (father and mother). So, one would not think to use the 7th house for the parents of an adopted child asking about their mother or father since they do have 'parents'.

When in doubt, one really must look at the planets signifying the said persons as they (the planets) will always help determine the significator(s) by describing the quesited either physically or by circumstance or both.
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Last edited by Anachiel; 08-19-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:33 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
-mother in law = 10th from the 7th
-father in law = 4th from the 7tth
It seems like it would be something different from family to family, especially in western culture where anything goes these days. There are a lot of dads giving up jobs to raise the kids so mom can maintain momentum in her career.

In my initial view, mom and dad are seen as one. Of course that maybe my Pluto/libra projection of the ideal family.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:21 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
...

In my initial view, mom and dad are seen as one. Of course that maybe my Pluto/libra projection of the ideal family.
That's possibly true about both parents being one base or root, to one degree or another, and therefore can also be, traditionally, signified by the 4th.

So, the 4th can signify either the father alone or the parents (plural), though I think it was more intended for both parents in an ancestral (roots) perspective rather than as both as a unit, per se. But, in situations where the parents are estranged, as in a disappearance or abandonment, the 4th could be very handy.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:54 PM
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Re: which house is in-laws?

yes; and as a combined energy they leave their own imprint on our own yin-yang interplay...
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