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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Old 07-30-2012, 07:55 AM
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Question Meaning of these sabian symbols?

Sun is 14-15 deg Aquarius
Two Lovebirds Sitting On A Fence And Singing Happily

Moon is 22-23 deg Taurus
A Jewelry Shop Filled With Valuable Gems

Mercury is 19-20 deg Capricorn
A Hidden Choir Is Singing During A Religious Service

Venus is 21-22 deg Capricorn
By Accepting Defeat Gracefully, A General Reveals Nobility Of Character

Mars is 3-4 deg Capricorn
A Group Of People Outfitting A Large Canoe At The Start Of A Journey By Water

Jupiter is 1-2 deg Cancer
A Man On A Magic Carpet Hovers Over A Large Area Of Land

Saturn is 19-20 deg Capricorn
A Hidden Choir Is Singing During A Religious Service

Uranus is 7-8 deg Capricorn
In A Sunlit Home Domesticated Birds Sing Joyously

Neptune is 13-14 deg Capricorn
An Ancient Bas-Relief Carved In Granite Remains A Witness To A Long-Forgotten Culture

Pluto is 17-18 deg Scorpio
A Path Through Woods Brilliant With Multicolored Splendor

Ascendant is 9-10 deg Sagittarius
A Theatrical Representation Of A Golden-Haired Goddess Of Opportuinity

MC is 14-15 deg Virgo
A Fine Lace Handkerchief, Heirloom From Valorous Ancestors

What do those symbols mean? Do you all have different interpretations? I would like to know what you think the symbols mean. They don't make much sense.

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Old 07-30-2012, 08:10 AM
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

The Sabian symbols are images, I don't know if one can interpret them any further.There is some kind of system behind it, i havelooked at this, but found it quite confusing - just my opinion..

Not everyone can relate to the Sabian symbols.. Some people really connect to the symbols for their chart degrees and others don't.
Personally, I find that some of the symbols for the planetary positions in my own chart make sense and others don't. If they work for you, you can use them to help you understand your chart, but if you can't relate to the symbols it may be best just to leave it.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:15 PM
sdh3 sdh3 is offline
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

The Sabian Symbols most certainly can be interpreted and have been by one or more authors in just about every decade since their inception (1925). You can do no better than to begin with Dane Rudhyar's interpretations which are available for free at this Mindfire page.

thoughtfully
sdh3
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:39 PM
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

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Originally Posted by sdh3 View Post
The Sabian Symbols most certainly can be interpreted and have been by one or more authors in just about every decade since their inception (1925). You can do no better than to begin with Dane Rudhyar's interpretations which are available for free at this Mindfire page.

thoughtfully
sdh3
I most whole heartedly agree. sdh3, knows what He's talking about!
Keep at it Lordofpeace. It may not dawn on you all at once. It didn't on me...the day I was introduced to Rudhyars book I might have dismissed it but for the fact that one Planets' Sabian Symbol stuck out...that of the 21st of Leo for my natal Pluto... [and my M.C. is the 25th of Leo and was just a few minutes prior pointed out to me as being a most significant placement and the introducers' {my brother} comment about my being a rather 'Plutonian' sort.]
As for the only reason that I had achieved something some 16 years prior when I was only 15, in my first attempt at meditation that takes some yogis many years to achieve... or a lifetime...if they achieve it at all.

It came in time, as to my chart, a symbol later that year... one maybe two the next year...then in 2004... BA-DANG!

ps...the last time i checked though, the degrees and symbols for Cancer 16* - 30* were missing...and I don't know if they've fixed that problem yet.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:12 AM
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordofpeace View Post
Sun is 14-15 deg Aquarius
Two Lovebirds Sitting On A Fence And Singing Happily

Moon is 22-23 deg Taurus
A Jewelry Shop Filled With Valuable Gems

Mercury is 19-20 deg Capricorn
A Hidden Choir Is Singing During A Religious Service

Venus is 21-22 deg Capricorn
By Accepting Defeat Gracefully, A General Reveals Nobility Of Character

Mars is 3-4 deg Capricorn
A Group Of People Outfitting A Large Canoe At The Start Of A Journey By Water

Jupiter is 1-2 deg Cancer
A Man On A Magic Carpet Hovers Over A Large Area Of Land

Saturn is 19-20 deg Capricorn
A Hidden Choir Is Singing During A Religious Service

Uranus is 7-8 deg Capricorn
In A Sunlit Home Domesticated Birds Sing Joyously

Neptune is 13-14 deg Capricorn
An Ancient Bas-Relief Carved In Granite Remains A Witness To A Long-Forgotten Culture

Pluto is 17-18 deg Scorpio
A Path Through Woods Brilliant With Multicolored Splendor

Ascendant is 9-10 deg Sagittarius
A Theatrical Representation Of A Golden-Haired Goddess Of Opportuinity

MC is 14-15 deg Virgo
A Fine Lace Handkerchief, Heirloom From Valorous Ancestors

What do those symbols mean? Do you all have different interpretations? I would like to know what you think the symbols mean. They don't make much sense.
Namaste`, Lordofpeace.

I hadn't taken the time to give your data a real look when I wrote what I did in the above post late last night/early morning here
We share a few degree symbols between us and I also notice the preponderance of Capricorn in your chart.
As Pluto is making it's run through Capricorn presently you'll be feeling it's affect alright...for a number of years ahead too. Right now Pluto is in the first decan and so far it looks like it has conjuncted your natal Mars and is all over your natal uranus right now. A Pluto transiting conjunct natal Uranus has got to be quite the experience I imagine as it takes Pluto apprx. one lifetime [avg. 84 years] to transit one third of a natal chart there's a lot of emphasis on what Pluto does conj. in ones lifetime.
Most astrologers are going to tell you otherwise. That Pluto is something that is only generational in effect and to not bother yourself about it.
They couldn't be too much more wrong. It is generational., but if you are a very advance and spiritually evolved soul it can, and most likely will, be of some profound impact.
As i was born with Pluto in Leo and Uranus in Cancer I'll never know the effects of a transiting Pluto conj natal Uranus. I do however know that transiting Uranus conj. natal Pluto has. That occurred for me between 1960-61. as Pluto is about 3 1/2 deg. from my M.C. that was also in the picture around that time.
I was * years old when i tried dream divination and was successful at it. I read an account of how it was done in a copy of Fate magizine in an article or letter sent in by two of its' subscribers. They had used it to predict the highest paying winning race horse at a track and as my father loved to play the ponies in those days I announced to him and my mother that I was going to try it.
They gave me that look like, "Oh how cute!" and dad rolled up the racing form and told me too put it under my pillow to help me out. He and my mother grinned at one another.
I got up with him the next morning which was unusual enough as he left for work at 6 AM each day. I told Him, "I had my Dream" and he said; "Okay let's hear it." He then looked in the form found a horse like the one I described and looked up and had that slight puzzled but still bemused look. He said, "Well why not? I'll put a couple of bucks on it."
It won it was the highest paying winning horse at the track that day.

That is about all I can relate to anything about a Pluto/Uranus conj. I was rather young and nothing else I remember seems to me out of the ordinary. ..but I have no doubt there was more to it that, I just hadn't been aware of as I was too busy being an 8 year old kid.
Transiting Pluto conj. Uranus is the same deal only longer in duration and maybe a little more intense.
Uranus is the higher octave of mercury and it deals with the mental facilities and communication but at a much higher vibration...meaning it is that which gives us our true intuitive abilities. Just like that dream of mine.
The fact that your in this degree symbols forum asking these questions at this time is a good indication of this. Sure People ask these questions in this forum all the time...but there's almost always something astrologically I can see that is spurring a sudden interest.
The more advanced you are up the spiritual ladder [and I mean the sum total of past lives and what little of this present life you've already lived.] the more pronounced these transits are on you. According to the author Trevor Ravenscroft those descended from the House of David that have any of the DNA of same in their blood, no matter ho minute makes those people way more influenced by the transits, or as he put it in his book "The Cup of Destiny", "These people are particularly affected by astrology."
Those most advanced souls or souls that have 'laid this life on the altar' [however that works...for what reason...whether that soul has to be very advanced to do so...I don't know...I do know it to be true. I know at least a couple of these sort of people, have done their charts and seen it in action.] These kinds of People both the very advanced and those 'on a mission here' are what Dane Rudhyar referred to as "The World Servers". These people will see that the Moons nodes in natal, progressed and in transit chart are quite directly affecting their actions or corroborating them...as can be seen through the Sabian Symbology.
The North Node daily tells what that ephemeral activity for the day means to world Human society it also will tell one of these people the reason for their actions that day if they are adhering to their path and are remaining true to their spiritual ideals.
[the north Node just crossed my Arabic part of increase and benefits this past week. I got a $4000.00 windfall just this last Saturday, for example.]

If this account has interested you. I suggest that you start with your chart axis analysis and read my latest thread in the Mundane forum, the Country sub forum on the USA natal "WHO" and "WHERE-TO"... a lot of the so called "Traditional Astrologers" are pooh poohing it saying that it isn't the natal chart of the USA... that's up for you to make a decision who you wish to believe.
[Trust me..it's the chart...]
Learn the process I outline there. I am suggesting it because i believe it is going to be obvious to you that the symbols explain the nation of the U.S. of A. and from that you'll get an actual demonstration. Rudhyar's book on the Sabians in the chapter titled "The Cross and the Star" details this. It is also on the mindfire site sdh3 gave you. In fact the entire book is except for those degrees of Cancer I mentioned [last I looked] and a chapter on the 'Binary Relationship of the Signs" for some reason, although it is listed...it isn't available...but that' Waaaaay advanced stuff that I'm still even learning more on...though, like I said, I've had my copy of Rudhyar many years...since the summer of '84 to be honest.

If you do so and find that you are way more spiritually advanced than you had given yourself credit for...remember there are those that will try to keep you from fulfilling your destiny. "Don't cast your pearls ...etc."
I take it your still fairly young and obviously still in some early awakening stages...protect yourself. Watch, observe and learn. Let your Archetype[s] be your guide, be true to your path.
You will be called upon one day to serve in some way...you never know when or where. This may in fact only be a lifetime of learning and by learning and advancing you are also of service to the ONE...only the ONE knows for sure...and those that identify themselves [sometimes] as the "Messengers from the Most High"...that refers to Angels loyal and dedicated to serve God and Gods Eternal Light and Love and also those souls that have "ascended" [Jesus/Yeshua, Rama, Krishna, Buddha, St. Germaine etc] and remain between Heaven and Earth in order to serve...all others you need not apply or want to, trust me.
May God Bless You in your striving for the Truth, and if it be your decision, to serve. if you so desire Gods Blessing.
Namaste,
piercethevale, aka Devananda, Sadhan Order of Yoga
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Last edited by piercethevale; 08-03-2012 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Namaste`, Lordofpeace.

I hadn't taken the time to give your data a real look when I wrote what I did in the above post late last night/early morning here
We share a few degree symbols between us and I also notice the preponderance of Capricorn in your chart.
As Pluto is making it's run through Capricorn presently you'll be feeling it's affect alright...for a number of years ahead too. Right now Pluto is in the first decan and so far it looks like it has conjuncted your natal Mars and is all over your natal uranus right now. A Pluto transiting conjunct natal Uranus has got to be quite the experience I imagine as it takes Pluto apprx. one lifetime [avg. 84 years] to transit one third of a natal chart there's a lot of emphasis on what Pluto does conj. in ones lifetime.
Most astrologers are going to tell you otherwise. That Pluto is something that is only generational in effect and to not bother yourself about it.
They couldn't be too much more wrong. It is generational., but if you are a very advance and spiritually evolved soul it can, and most likely will, be of some profound impact.
As i was born with Pluto in Leo and Uranus in Cancer I'll never know the effects of a transiting Pluto conj natal Uranus. I do however know that transiting Uranus conj. natal Pluto has. That occurred for me between 1960-61. as Pluto is about 3 1/2 deg. from my M.C. that was also in the picture around that time.
I was * years old when i tried dream divination and was successful at it. I read an account of how it was done in a copy of Fate magizine in an article or letter sent in by two of its' subscribers. They had used it to predict the highest paying winning race horse at a track and as my father loved to play the ponies in those days I announced to him and my mother that I was going to try it.
They gave me that look like, "Oh how cute!" and dad rolled up the racing form and told me too put it under my pillow to help me out. He and my mother grinned at one another.
I got up with him the next morning which was unusual enough as he left for work at 6 AM each day. I told Him, "I had my Dream" and he said; "Okay let's hear it." He then looked in the form found a horse like the one I described and looked up and had that slight puzzled but still bemused look. He said, "Well why not? I'll put a couple of bucks on it."
It won it was the highest paying winning horse at the track that day.

That is about all I can relate to anything about a Pluto/Uranus conj. I was rather young and nothing else I remember seems to me out of the ordinary. ..but I have no doubt there was more to it that, I just hadn't been aware of as I was too busy being an 8 year old kid.
Transiting Pluto conj. Uranus is the same deal only longer in duration and maybe a little more intense.
Uranus is the higher octave of mercury and it deals with the mental facilities and communication but at a much higher vibration...meaning it is that which gives us our true intuitive abilities. Just like that dream of mine.
The fact that your in this degree symbols forum asking these questions at this time is a good indication of this. Sure People ask these questions in this forum all the time...but there's almost always something astrologically I can see that is spurring a sudden interest.
The more advanced you are up the spiritual ladder [and I mean the sum total of past lives and what little of this present life you've already lived.] the more pronounced these transits are on you. According to the author Trevor Ravenscroft those descended from the House of David that have any of the DNA of same in their blood, no matter ho minute makes those people way more influenced by the transits, or as he put it in his book "The Cup of Destiny", "These people are particularly affected by astrology."
Those most advanced souls or souls that have 'laid this life on the altar' [however that works...for what reason...whether that soul has to be very advanced to do so...I don't know...I do know it to be true. I know at least a couple of these sort of people, have done their charts and seen it in action.] These kinds of People both the very advanced and those 'on a mission here' are what Dane Rudhyar referred to as "The World Servers". These people will see that the Moons nodes in natal, progressed and in transit chart are quite directly affecting their actions or corroborating them...as can be seen through the Sabian Symbology.
The North Node daily tells what that ephemeral activity for the day means to world Human society it also will tell one of these people the reason for their actions that day if they are adhering to their path and are remaining true to their spiritual ideals.
[the north Node just crossed my Arabic part of increase and benefits this past week. I got a $4000.00 windfall just this last Saturday, for example.]

If this account has interested you. I suggest that you start with your chart axis analysis and read my latest thread in the Mundane forum, the Country sub forum on the USA natal "WHO" and "WHERE-TO"... a lot of the so called "Traditional Astrologers" are pooh poohing it saying that it isn't the natal chart of the USA... that's up for you to make a decision who you wish to believe.
[Trust me..it's the chart...]
Learn the process I outline there. I am suggesting it because i believe it is going to be obvious to you that the symbols explain the nation of the U.S. of A. and from that you'll get an actual demonstration. Rudhyar's book on the Sabians in the chapter titled "The Cross and the Star" details this. It is also on the mindfire site sdh3 gave you. In fact the entire book is except for those degrees of Cancer I mentioned [last I looked] and a chapter on the 'Binary Relationship of the Signs" for some reason, although it is listed...it isn't available...but that' Waaaaay advanced stuff that I'm still even learning more on...though, like I said, I've had my copy of Rudhyar many years...since the summer of '84 to be honest.

If you do so and find that you are way more spiritually advanced than you had given yourself credit for...remember there are those that will try to keep you from fulfilling your destiny. "Don't cast your pearls ...etc."
I take it your still fairly young and obviously still in some early awakening stages...protect yourself. Watch, observe and learn. Let your Archetype[s] be your guide, be true to your path.
You will be called upon one day to serve in some way...you never know when or where. This may in fact only be a lifetime of learning and by learning and advancing you are also of service to the ONE...only the ONE knows for sure...and those that identify themselves [sometimes] as the "Messengers from the Most High"...that refers to Angels loyal and dedicated to serve God and Gods Eternal Light and Love and also those souls that have "ascended" [Jesus/Yeshua, Rama, Krishna, Buddha, St. Germaine etc] and remain between Heaven and Earth in order to serve...all others you need not apply or want to, trust me.
May God Bless You in your striving for the Truth, and if it be your decision, to serve. if you so desire Gods Blessing.
Namaste,
piercethevale, aka Devananda, Sadhan Order of Yoga
Fascinating read! Thank you for all that. I read everything and I will take your advice. I am curious about dream divination. Sounds very interesting!
More members should be as thoughtful and helpful as you! Thanks again.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:34 PM
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

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Fascinating read! Thank you for all that. I read everything and I will take your advice. I am curious about dream divination. Sounds very interesting!
More members should be as thoughtful and helpful as you! Thanks again.
It's a pleasure to be a service.
I do want to say though. I only wrote the anecdotes of mine about dream divination and meditation as to the need for them to be mentioned.
It is because of what I saw for Pluto in my natal chart in the 21st degree of Leo that Rudhyar added in His own renowned, 'Keyword[s]' at the end of the dissertation on that degree that is a summation of the definition preceding it, of which is in bold type and capital letters as he did for all of the 360 symbols. [although I've noticed that the mindfire website has somehow omitted a couple or three or forgot to put them in bold type ...as I never went over the entire posting to determine this.]
That being for the 21st of Leo by Rudhyar is in His ''Keyword[s]" he wrote;
"PREMATURE EXPANSION OF CONSCIOUSNESS",
I've got my natal chart posted as an attachment in a number of posts of mine in threads and you can find it if you have a need to, but you can take my word for this. I was born with natal Neptune @ 21* Libra 53' and Saturn @ 22* Libra 17' ...and that's within a half of a degree of perfect conjunction. If you are familiar with that aspect and what it bestows then you need no further explanation by me. [Sakoian and Ackers' "Astrologers' Handbook" is one source I definitely know of that does and as it was the 'Handbook' that my brother gave me, along with the a copy of the book on the Sabian Symbols by Rudhyar and a copy of the 20th Century Ephemeris, as what He had determined to be the best on the subject of astrology that He knew of at that time, and as to which I could best rely on to get started in understanding what 'really is truth about astrology' at that time...and He may still today, I certainly recommend them, although there may be better handbooks, but I haven't as to this date, come across any that also give the mataphysical and paranormal proclivities and explanations for them.] If you are, then you'll understand that it was pretty much attributable to that conjunction of which only occurs about every 36 years or so. [Interesting tidbit of trivia is that Aldous Huxley took that mescaline "trip" on the eve of May 5th in 1953 which was the day before I was born...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:18 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

Hmm. I would start at the beginning. Marc Edmund Jones created the symbols along with Elsie Wheeler, and he wrote the book on them, The Sabian Symbols in Astrology.

Their original intent was use as Ascendant Degree symbols.

Sometimes Jones and Rudhyar agree as to the basic meaning of a symbol, sometimes they seem to diverge....

My personal preference is Jones, for two reasons: 1. He gives the original description of the images as Miss Wheeler gave them to him. He was writing what she told of her mental images on index cards as she spoke; each card had a zodiacal degree written on the reverse of the card, and 2. I prefer Jones more "realistic" viewpoint as well as his positive/negative possibilities.

I usually consult both works when I use the symbols and then let my own mind add its two-cents worth. I don't use the symbols all the time, but when for whatever reason it seems appropriate. They are quite often mind-boggling in their "fit".
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:10 AM
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Hmm. I would start at the beginning. Marc Edmund Jones created the symbols along with Elsie Wheeler, and he wrote the book on them, The Sabian Symbols in Astrology.

Their original intent was use as Ascendant Degree symbols.

Sometimes Jones and Rudhyar agree as to the basic meaning of a symbol, sometimes they seem to diverge....

My personal preference is Jones, for two reasons: 1. He gives the original description of the images as Miss Wheeler gave them to him. He was writing what she told of her mental images on index cards as she spoke; each card had a zodiacal degree written on the reverse of the card, and 2. I prefer Jones more "realistic" viewpoint as well as his positive/negative possibilities.

I usually consult both works when I use the symbols and then let my own mind add its two-cents worth. I don't use the symbols all the time, but when for whatever reason it seems appropriate. They are quite often mind-boggling in their "fit".
You need to study the history behind these symbols more. Jones diverged from what Elsie gave to conform to what he had anticipated.
Rudhyar became suspicious of them after working with them for awhile.
At the time Dane was living in Los Angeles and found out that Elsie was living in San Diego. So Dane headed south to San Diego, met Elsie...and guess what.

Busted!


Marc had given Her the cards and what He had written on those cards didn't always jibe with what He issued.

Rudhyar forced his hand by starting those articles in the '40s in an astrology magazine....at the rate of about 3 or 4 a year [he would've never finished in his lifetime at that rate. Why would He do such a thing?]
You'll notice, if you do the research, that Dane quit these writings after about a dozen were covered...and then Marc publishes a book on them [the way they had been written down...or close enough] in the early 50's

Dane went on to publish His book on them some twenty years later...because, in my opinion...Dane spent considerable more time in analyzing them. Marc not only gave his consent to Rudhyar to write on them He even gave his blessing and permission to alter any Dane felt could use a little 'tweeking'. [A little 'Hush' payoff?]
Elsie didn't 'Create' them. They are precepts, put in place by the 'Creator'. Her psyche saw they in form that she could recognize. Marc tried to 'Re-Create' them.
Dane busted Him.

You've got to read between the lines of the accounts of the history behind them as to Dane and Marc. They were somewhat adversarial...but the 'Science of Astrology' had to come first...and they both knew that. To make a public squabble out of it would've doomed the symbols and they would of been forgotten by now...in all likelihood.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:02 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

To the best of my understanding, Jones wrote what Elsie said on each card. He then used the symbols in his classes to test them. He may have modified some. I don't know whether this is so or not. The point is that Jones was working with them, testing them, and may have modified some (I would assume to achieve more clarity). Certainly the two versions given in Jones' and Rudhyar's books are not identical in all respects.

I'm not sure "heroes and villains" is appropriate here.

I am aware of their relationship. The good thing is that we got the symbols more or less intact. How they came into my hands is far less important to me than whether they work or not.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-29-2012 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:47 AM
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

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To the best of my understanding, Jones wrote what Elsie said on each card. He then used the symbols in his classes to test them. He may have modified some. I don't know whether this is so or not. The point is that Jones was working with them, testing them, and may have modified some (I would assume to achieve more clarity). Certainly the two versions given in Jones' and Rudhyar's books are not identical in all respects.

I'm not sure "heroes and villains" is appropriate here.

I am aware of their relationship. The good thing is that we got the symbols more or less intact. How they came into my hands is far less important to me than whether they work or not.
Fair enough.
But if you read the introduction to Dane's book, "An Astrological Mandala", you'll find he does tell the reader to read chapter two for more on the history of the Sabian symbols for the first 25 years. All the clues are in there.
Personally, I find Dane's work to be more useful. But, then again, I believe Dane to have been the better at astrology of the two.
How many astrologers, do you know, that pay much heed to Marcs theories on the 'splay' [r.e.. "Bucket Types", "Locomotive Types", etc.]? Personally, I don't know any myself.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:59 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Meaning of these sabian symbols?

I have been a student of astrology for over 4 decades now. I happen to base my astrology on Jones patterns. They provided me with the window that allowed me to see into a chart.

So now you know one.
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