Applying significators with no mutual reception?

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Hi All.

My friend S asked me to cast a chart for her, she wants to know whether or not she will get back with her ex, they broke up earlier this year. I've given her ruler of 1st instead of ruler of 11th because she gave me the time/location of the question.

The problem is - she is really hoping to get back with him (even considering relocating for him), and to me, things aren't looking so good based on the chart.

I just need to get a few more opinions before delivering the (bad) news

Her question is: Will I get back together with Matt?

So S = ruler of 1st = Jupiter @ Gem8°19'
Moon is S's co-significator @ Leo22°05'
Matt = ruler of 7th = retrograde Mercury @ Leo11°06'
Matt is co-signified by the Sun @ Can28°46'

I can see straightaway that both the North node and part of Fortune are in the 1st house. I take that as a good sign.

Both S's significators are smitten with Matt's (Jupiter in Gemini and Moon in Leo). Also, Jupiter is in the 7th house, so he's definitely on her mind. Interestingly, Venus is also in Gemini in the 7th - I'm wondering if the guy has recently been involved with another lady (my friend says not that she knows of). The problem here is: Matt doesn't seem to have much interest in S. Mercury in Leo shows that he's not interested in her at all and even though the Sun is in Cancer ruled by the Moon, it's about to leave Cancer and enter Leo in 2 degrees.

Also, it seems that Mercury is retrograding and applying to sextile Jupiter (with one-sided reception), the aspect will not perfect as Mercury will sextile Mars first. Not sure how that will affect things - i have seen charts where the relationship happened even though one person's planet did not perfect an aspect with the other person before having run into several other planets first.

Also, Moon's next aspect is sextiling Saturn in Libra, again with no mutual reception.

At this stage, I'm really not sure what to say to her... ... I don't want to upset her as we're not that close.

I've attached the chart below in both the Regiomontanus and whole sign house systems. Can you please take a look and let me know what you think?

Thanks

Regiomontanus


Whole sign

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Just to add, and this is more for Dr. Farr who uses a lot of arabic parts in his delineations, if you're going to use the Part of Marriage, I've already calculated it based on the formula ASC + DESC - Venus and it falls at Sco20°22', depositor of POM is Mars @ Lib9°40' .

[Culpeper]

Actually there is a mixed mutual reception between Mercury and Jupiter: Mercury is in the Face/Chariot of Jupiter. The mutual application of Mercury and Jupiter is also a positive indication. The malefic interference of Mars is partially offset by favorable aspects and the aspect of Venus to Mars. By adding up points the chart gives a positive or yes indication but it will require considerable effort on the part of the querent to make this work.

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Originally Posted by Culpeper

Actually there is a mixed mutual reception between Mercury and Jupiter: Mercury is in the Face/Chariot of Jupiter. The mutual application of Mercury and Jupiter is also a positive indication. The malefic interference of Mars is partially offset by favorable aspects and the aspect of Venus to Mars. By adding up points the chart gives a positive or yes indication but it will require considerable effort on the part of the querent to make this work.

Thanks Culpeper

My concern is that the reception is very weak, the way i see it is that she's crazy about him and he's only mildly interested, and i find it really hard to say it to her

I also thought that Mercury running into Mars would mean that he meets someone else, or run into some problems...

[misskitty]

Originally Posted by SagSunScorpioMoon

My concern is that the reception is very weak, the way i see it is that she's crazy about him and he's only mildly interested, and i find it really hard to say it to her

I think as of right now that is the case, however, it is his significator applying to hers and not the other way around... that is a good sign! She should simply stay receptive to his advances, but not push for more because she is in detriment, after all.

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Originally Posted by misskitty

I think as of right now that is the case, however, it is his significator applying to hers and not the other way around... that is a good sign! She should simply stay receptive to his advances, but not push for more because she is in detriment, after all.

Thanks MissKitty

I'll tell her that, emphasising the point that he is applying to her.

Do you think the fact that Mercury will sextile Mars first will stop them from getting together again?

[misskitty]

Originally Posted by SagSunScorpioMoon

Do you think the fact that Mercury will sextile Mars first will stop them from getting together again?

Well... I think to frame the question that way is to assume that the other factors in the chart are pointing to their definite re-involvement. I don't see that. I see a sextile, but that wouldn't have given a clear "yes" even if Mars was not involved, since sextiles are weak indicators. So to answer the question, I don't think Mars makes much of a difference... to me the chart is pointing to a communication and and an opening... will that some day lead to a rekindling of romance? MAYBE... but I think that depends on how the scenario being laid out in this particular chart goes. If it goes well, and a reasonable amount of time passes and the querent wants to ask the question again (particularly after Mercury Retrograde-- you don't want to start anything new under that anyway!) then another chart could be done.

Hope that makes sense.

[dr. farr]

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

-querent = 1st house = Sagittarius = Jupiter
-quesited = 7th house = Gemini = Mercury
-quesited 7th house posits the SN = - testimony
-7th house posits querent significator Jupiter in detriment = - testimony
-quesited Mercury flows by retrograde toward Jupiter = + testimony
-Mercury applies (by retrograde) to sextile with querent Jupiter (+) but will not perfect prior to interference by earlier sextile perfecting with Mars (-) = net neutral testimony
-querent co-significator Moon flows away from both significators (-) but toward POM significator Mars (+) = net neutral testimony
-POM in Scorpio in 12th whole sign house = querent's 12th house of disappointments and grief = - testimony
-Mars, significator of the POM, is in querent's 11th house of gains, friendship and the Good Spirit(+) but also in its sign of detriment, Libra (-) = net neutral testimony
-Mercury applies to sextile with Mars (POM significator), which will perfect = + testimony
-Moon is in a pitted degree, which pretty much minimalizes all of the Moon connections in the chart = - testimony

Results:
Positive = +2 testimonies
Negative = -4 testimonies
Net = -2 testimonies

...with a net -2 testimonies, indications are that querent and ex will probably not be reunited (get back together) over the next few months (after that period of time, it would require a new question regarding this matter)

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Originally Posted by misskitty

Well... I think to frame the question that way is to assume that the other factors in the chart are pointing to their definite re-involvement. I don't see that. I see a sextile, but that wouldn't have given a clear "yes" even if Mars was not involved, since sextiles are weak indicators. So to answer the question, I don't think Mars makes much of a difference... to me the chart is pointing to a communication and and an opening... will that some day lead to a rekindling of romance? MAYBE... but I think that depends on how the scenario being laid out in this particular chart goes. If it goes well, and a reasonable amount of time passes and the querent wants to ask the question again (particularly after Mercury Retrograde-- you don't want to start anything new under that anyway!) then another chart could be done.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks again MissKitty. Yes that makes sense

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Originally Posted by dr. farr

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

-querent = 1st house = Sagittarius = Jupiter
-quesited = 7th house = Gemini = Mercury
-quesited 7th house posits the SN = - testimony
-7th house posits querent significator Jupiter in detriment = - testimony
-quesited Mercury flows by retrograde toward Jupiter = + testimony
-Mercury applies (by retrograde) to sextile with querent Jupiter (+) but will not perfect prior to interference by earlier sextile perfecting with Mars (-) = net neutral testimony
-querent co-significator Moon flows away from both significators (-) but toward POM significator Mars (+) = net neutral testimony
-POM in Scorpio in 12th whole sign house = querent's 12th house of disappointments and grief = - testimony
-Mars, significator of the POM, is in querent's 11th house of gains, friendship and the Good Spirit(+) but also in its sign of detriment, Libra (-) = net neutral testimony
-Mercury applies to sextile with Mars (POM significator), which will perfect = + testimony
-Moon is in a pitted degree, which pretty much minimalizes all of the Moon connections in the chart = - testimony

Results:
Positive = +2 testimonies
Negative = -4 testimonies
Net = -2 testimonies

...with a net -2 testimonies, indications are that querent and ex will probably not be reunited (get back together) over the next few months (after that period of time, it would require a new question regarding this matter)

Thanks Dr. Farr
I've also noticed that the North node is exalted at 3° Gemini, so does that mean it is at its fall at 3° Sagittarius?

[dr. farr]

I myself (like many of the Vedic practitioners) do not credit the exaltation and fall points (or other alleged rulership affinities) of the Lunar Nodes.
However, if we do credit the various exaltation/fall points given for the Nodes, then yes the fall degree would be 3 Sagittarius.

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Originally Posted by dr. farr

I myself (like many of the Vedic practitioners) do not credit the exaltation and fall points (or other alleged rulership affinities) of the Lunar Nodes.
However, if we do credit the various exaltation/fall points given for the Nodes, then yes the fall degree would be 3 Sagittarius.

Just noticed mean node falls at 2 degree of Sag. I guess that doesn't count then.

Thanks

[SagSunScorpioMoon]

Hi All.

An update on this one - my friend did not get back together with her ex, there's been no contact at all between the two of them since the chart was cast.

Thanks for all your feedbacks.