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  #201  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:02 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Mercury through the signs (cntl/exp/diff):

Aries 7.67 / 7.46 / 2.8
Taurus 6.08 / 7.49 / -18.7
Gemini 7.94 / 9.13 / -13.0
Cancer 7.67 / 7.65 / 0.3
Leo 6.35 / 7.80 / -18.6
Virgo 9.79 / 8.17 / 19.7
Libra 8.47 / 9.05 / -6.4
Scorpio 10.05 / 8.84 / 13.8
Sagittarius 6.88 / 8.28 / -16.9
Capricorn 11.11 / 9.58 / 16.0
Aquarius 7.94 / 8.31 / -4.5
Pisces 10.05 / 8.25 / 21.8
Can someone explain this? Lol I feel like I'm missing out on some quality information!

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  #202  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:25 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Can someone explain this? Lol I feel like I'm missing out on some quality information!
If you look at the article I linked up-thread, you should be able to understand the results.
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  #203  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:29 AM
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Re: Intelligence

Mmmm I don't understand what the three groupings of numbers represent. I get that they're control group, etc. But what are the numbers measuring? Percentages?
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  #204  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:36 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
I still don't understand how Virgo was higher than Capricorn.
Just because the results don't fit in with YOUR expectations it doesn't mean they are incorrect. In fact, there's something amiss if one can't adjust one's thinking when presented with evidence that goes against one's expectaions.

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Someone needs to examine this experiment and also do some more experiments.
Feel free to do so.

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I'm still wondering if Mercury is a malefic. I bet it is and that's why Uranus is malefic and behaves the way it does.
Mercury is naturally neutral and and only becomes benefic or malefic based on its dignity, placement and aspects. Mercury's nature has nothing whatsoever to do with Uranus's nature.
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  #205  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:37 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by MSO View Post
Mmmm I don't understand what the three groupings of numbers represent. I get that they're control group, etc. But what are the numbers measuring? Percentages?
Yes, as explained in the article, they are percentages.
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  #206  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:40 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Frank, my mind keeps pressing the same question: what does this mean for our understanding of Mercury placements for e.g.? How could the fall and detriment of M have such results? Does that indicate we are likely misinterpreting something about dignity and debility? The forum is rife with attacks on Pisces Mercury, yet take a look at these scores (as just one example of intelligence assessment of course, how do we measure creativity etc. in this way).
No, it just means some people simplify too much. "Detriment = BAD!!!" - no matter what the condition of the dispositor is, the house placement, sect, aspects, etc.
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  #207  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:43 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
Mercury is naturally neutral and and only becomes benefic or malefic based on its dignity, placement and aspects. Mercury's nature has nothing whatsoever to do with Uranus's nature.
Uranus's nature has a lot to do with Mercury's. I still sort of think Mercury is malefic but too fast to normally have any lasting damaging effects. Really, its effects are felt most beneficially in the same was as the malefics' effects are, not as the benefics' or even "neutral" Sun's and Moon's.

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No, it just means some people simplify too much. "Detriment = BAD!!!" - no matter what the condition of the dispositor is, the house placement, sect, aspects, etc.
Some other people when I was a beginner: "All of your planets are weak except the very strong Moon and moderate Mercury and Venus."
Me now: My chart is ruled by "weak" Saturn, not the Moon...
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  #208  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:47 AM
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Re: Intelligence

Is this experiment difficult to do? I'm wondering if it can be done again with a completely different set of people. I want to know if the results will be similar, as there can be other factors not accounted for, such as Mercury being oriental/occidental or slow/stationary.
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  #209  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:48 AM
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Re: Intelligence

Frank, consider this over-simplification then, I think there is a major error in modern astrology. This kind of simplification for me is on par with others reactions when I mention astrology - they think Sun signs and newpapers. A poor connection I think.

Similar reading if anyone interested:


Rethinking Mercury in Pisces
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=28241


Your Mercury and Your Learning Style
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=14944


Reload this Page RESEARCH - A Simple Mercury Retrograde Study
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=22905
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Transits
TR Jupiter conjunct ASC
TR Jupiter trine Mercury, MC
TR Saturn sextile Moon
TR Saturn trine Venus

Progressions
PR Venus inconjunct Moon
PR Mars sextile Sun, opposition Saturn
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  #210  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:54 AM
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Re: Intelligence

For example, take a look at the chart of a brilliant and famous astrologer, Reinhold Ebertin (attached).

He has Mercury in Pisces. However, what else is that Mercury doing? Mercury's dispositor is Jupiter, placed in Capricorn on the Capricorn ascendant, whose dispositor is Saturn, also in Capricorn in Domicile. Mercury is also widely trine the MC and sextile Saturn, reinforcing the Mercury/Saturn connection. Mercury is also closely square Pluto, and part of his legacy is that some seem him as rather harsh and pessimistic for their tastes.

One can't just go by a single position in ANY chart and make a judgement on it in stasis, "cookbook astrologers" notwithstanding.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg R_Ebertin.jpg (45.5 KB, 5 views)
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  #211  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:00 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by MSO View Post
Is this experiment difficult to do? I'm wondering if it can be done again with a completely different set of people. I want to know if the results will be similar, as there can be other factors not accounted for, such as Mercury being oriental/occidental or slow/stationary.
Unfortunately, the program I did the research on no longer exists as a viable program. I only have it installed on one old computer that I hardly ever use and lost the installation disk in a move last year. I intend to attempt to restore everything to get it functioning on my latest computers, but I just don't have much time to sit down and do the work.
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  #212  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:03 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
Unfortunately, the program I did the research on no longer exists as a viable program. I only have it installed on one old computer that I hardly ever use and lost the installation disk in a move last year. I intend to attempt to restore everything to get it functioning on my latest computers, but I just don't have much time to sit down and do the work.
Ah, that's understandable. One more thing, did you happen to run each of the Moon's positions as well, the way you did with Moon in Aquarius?
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  #213  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:08 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by MSO View Post
Ah, that's understandable. One more thing, did you happen to run each of the Moon's positions as well, the way you did with Moon in Aquarius?
I tested every possible combination - but only gave the ones that were significant. If I ever get the program operating again, I'll look at all of them.
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  #214  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:18 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
Some other people when I was a beginner: "All of your planets are weak except the very strong Moon and moderate Mercury and Venus."
Me now: My chart is ruled by "weak" Saturn, not the Moon...
When were you a beginner?
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  #215  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:19 AM
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Re: Intelligence

I think you should also measure intelligence in different areas rather than just IQ. If I can come to the conclusion that Mercury in Capricorn is the best based on decent evidence, then it's going to be the best for something even if it doesn't have quite as high of an IQ as Mercury in Pisces. I actually have it and I didn't think it was very good of a position at all until I analyzed it. I'm not a genius (which is an IQ score ) but there are plenty of mental (of the mind, not psychotic, but the latter is true too) things I can do that "geniuses" can't.

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When were you a beginner?
A few months ago when I didn't know what I was doing but seriously doubted the results some people, with such certainty, told me. I have 2 planets in detriment and 2 in fall and they all get decent scores last time I checked once all other factors are accounted for. Considering all my planets are angular or in the 2nd house except Pluto and there are a heck of a lot of receptions and no retrogrades, that's to be expected.

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 12-18-2011 at 03:23 AM.
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  #216  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:25 AM
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Re: Intelligence

You're still new enough to shape! Maybe I can get you out of using Pluto... I loathe that planet.
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  #217  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:28 AM
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Re: Intelligence

Do you use Uranus and Neptune?

I use Pluto like Mars. Pluto, like Mars, can be pretty annoying, 'specially with all the romanticsism (no typpo)...
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  #218  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:41 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
I think you should also measure intelligence in different areas rather than just IQ.
OK, then - give me an experimental group of at least 300 charts with verified accurate and documented birth data with times that objectively meet a criteria that might be described as "intelligence". Let me know when you've gathered the data.


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Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
A few months ago when I didn't know what I was doing but seriously doubted the results some people, with such certainty, told me.
No offense intended, but you are still a beginner.

When I first encountered astrology as a young child and read astrology books voraciously I didn't even consider myself a beginner.

I considered myself a beginner when I began calculating charts by hand at age 16 (there were no astrology computer programs or the internet back then) - until I had calculated and delineated around a thousand charts.

Once I had my Saturn Return, I finally didn't consider myself a beginner anymore.

Please don't get ahead of yourself. Learn the craft and don't make pronouncements based on what you THINK something SHOULD mean.

Learn as much as you can from those who have come before you. Become a sponge. Some of the information you absorb will be useful, some will not. Develop your filters to separate the useful from the useless by actual experience, not from preconceived notions.

I wish you all the best in your journey of learning.
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  #219  
Old 12-18-2011, 04:36 AM
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Re: Intelligence

Omg iq tests have been proven prejudice and faulty so many times over and over again blah.
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  #220  
Old 12-18-2011, 04:48 AM
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Re: Intelligence

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Omg iq tests have been proven prejudice and faulty so many times over and over again blah.
OK, then please let us know what other objective criteria we can study.
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  #221  
Old 12-18-2011, 04:50 AM
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Re: Intelligence

Plus, IQ tests are NOT the only tests that qualify for Mensa.
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  #222  
Old 12-18-2011, 04:56 AM
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Re: Intelligence

Here is just a partial list of tests that Mensa accepts or has accepted in the past in the USA:

http://www.mensafoundation.org/Conte...yingScores.htm

I qualified on four of those tests, plus Mensa's own - but I chose not to join Mensa.
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  #223  
Old 12-18-2011, 02:56 PM
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Re: Intelligence

Eq survival capabilities, are you a member frank?
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  #224  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:19 PM
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Re: Intelligence

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OK, then - give me an experimental group of at least 300 charts with verified accurate and documented birth data with times that objectively meet a criteria that might be described as "intelligence". Let me know when you've gathered the data.




No offense intended, but you are still a beginner.

When I first encountered astrology as a young child and read astrology books voraciously I didn't even consider myself a beginner.

I considered myself a beginner when I began calculating charts by hand at age 16 (there were no astrology computer programs or the internet back then) - until I had calculated and delineated around a thousand charts.

Once I had my Saturn Return, I finally didn't consider myself a beginner anymore.

Please don't get ahead of yourself. Learn the craft and don't make pronouncements based on what you THINK something SHOULD mean.

Learn as much as you can from those who have come before you. Become a sponge. Some of the information you absorb will be useful, some will not. Develop your filters to separate the useful from the useless by actual experience, not from preconceived notions.

I wish you all the best in your journey of learning.
I am a beginner. That's why I can't do the first one quite yet. But how am I supposed to go further now? My parents are fine with astrology, but I don't think they'd be fine with me being so serious about it, and it's not something that I really like to talk about regardless.

I think it'd be interesting if we looked at intelligence in different areas such as logic, verbal skills, geometry, memory, etc. rather than just overall intelligence. It might reveal different advantages of different Mercury signs and different aspects. That's all I was saying.

Oh, I have the Sun trine Mars by the way, and that's why I'm not a genius.
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  #225  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:46 PM
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Re: Intelligence

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Eq survival capabilities, are you a member frank?
No I am not.
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