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Old 05-15-2012, 03:49 PM
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Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

I know someone who has her Sun in opposition to her Moon. This aspect fits her all around. In reading the description found here:
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunmoonaspects.html

it was recommended that:
Quote:
Look for a planet that might trine and sextile the Sun-Moon opposition for a way to release the tension the opposition creates.
I was curious to know if this type of strategy would help with oppositions involving other planets, and possibly squares, in the same way?

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Old 05-15-2012, 05:35 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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I know someone who has her Sun in opposition to her Moon. This aspect fits her all around. In reading the description found here:
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunmoonaspects.html

it was recommended that:


I was curious to know if this type of strategy would help with oppositions involving other planets, and possibly squares, in the same way?
I think this is a useful perspective:

"Opposition are about balancing the tension between two equal, yet opposite forces, and then productively harnessing the energy of both. The signs that these planets fall within are complimentary by nature. An air sign is always opposite of a fire sign; an earth sign always sits across from a water sign. As fire requires air to exist, and earth needs water to thrive, the nature of these relationships is ultimately necessary, and once mastered, beneficial.
As opposition create a sort of stress and tension, they can be difficult to deal with. This tension can lead to a movement back and forth between extremes, internal confusion, and indecision. An individual may consciously acknowledge and favor one side, but be in complete denial of the other. In this case, that planet's energy will continue to manifest in one's life, creating an opposing pressure. Many people fall victim to this energy, not realizing that it is an essential part of themselves that needs to be accepted; a missing piece that can help transcend the reoccurring problem, and create the whole person." http://brennacoleman.suite101.com/ha...spects-a194866

"While the opposition involves compatible elements, a square involves incompatible elements. This type of stress is a powerful impetus for action and change. A planet square another has a completely different agenda and direction, making compromise and resolution more difficult to attain than simply having awareness and acceptance. The way to come to terms with square relationships is to act. In fact, the huge amount of energy involved in the tension between two opposing and incompatible forces, needs to be expressed in forward action to prevent self-destructiveness. When utilized properly, these challenging planetary aspects can yield a strong will and character." http://brennacoleman.suite101.com/ha...spects-a194866

I think it may also depend on the qualities of the planets, houses and signs. Aspects with saturn might take some time and might cause some of its depression while trying to find balance. Whereas mars aspects might be more dynamic, impatient, aggressive to reach a resolution. And an opposition with a trine-sextile to a third planet would mean that the energy of the opposition would support that third planet - or like you said it might be the outlet for finding harmony.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:01 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carris View Post
I think this is a useful perspective:


"While the opposition involves compatible elements, a square involves incompatible elements. This type of stress is a powerful impetus for action and change. A planet square another has a completely different agenda and direction, making compromise and resolution more difficult to attain than simply having awareness and acceptance. The way to come to terms with square relationships is to act. In fact, the huge amount of energy involved in the tension between two opposing and incompatible forces, needs to be expressed in forward action to prevent self-destructiveness. When utilized properly, these challenging planetary aspects can yield a strong will and character." http://brennacoleman.suite101.com/ha...spects-a194866

I think it may also depend on the qualities of the planets, houses and signs. Aspects with saturn might take some time and might cause some of its depression while trying to find balance. Whereas mars aspects might be more dynamic, impatient, aggressive to reach a resolution. And an opposition with a trine-sextile to a third planet would mean that the energy of the opposition would support that third planet - or like you said it might be the outlet for finding harmony.
This is easier said than done but this post caught my eye because it applies to me. I have a Sun Sq Moon, Sun Sq Saturn & Sun Sq Mars. All the difficult aspects possible that you mentioned. I am a person of strength & independence but my internal life is havoc. I feel suicidal alot of times. I can't integrate my personal worth into my 'values' & my
relationships suffered & have now officially ended. T-Uranus & Pluto can be given the pat on this portion but it sounds beneficial to focus the energy onto the trines. I wonder how that is possible after escaping or resolving the squares.
Anyone learns something please pass the info to me as well.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:09 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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A planet square another has a completely different agenda and direction, making compromise and resolution more difficult to attain than simply having awareness and acceptance. The way to come to terms with square relationships is to act. In fact, the huge amount of energy involved in the tension between two opposing and incompatible forces, needs to be expressed in forward action to prevent self-destructiveness.
I found the above to be interesting regarding the square aspect. How to act though? Do we just try different ways until something works? Does the native have an instinctual idea of what needs to be done but is fearful of that action...?

Does anyone have a good example of how they handled a particularly challenging aspect in their chart?
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:20 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

One useful trick is to imagine that your squares or oppositions are trines or sextiles. Same planets, just different aspects. What would your life look like if you were to work toward the more empowering interpretations?

Another strategy is to think through how the opposing or squared planets opperate in your life. Let's suppose that someone has the sun in Virgo opposite the moon in Pisces. Virgo is a perfectionist and feels happy when she is improving something. Pisces is highly impressionable, a psychic sponge, with a deep-seated "go with the flow" philosophy of life and a rich imagination.

How does each get its needs met? One way is to "side" with either planet (oftentimes the more personal planet in a pair) and then imagine the other planet as its wise teacher or coach. Virgo coaches Pisces about turning that imagination into beautiful art work. Pisces coaches Virgo about letting go of her need to be perfect because she is just fine the way she is. Both of them are happy when the person takes up yoga.

Squares generate a certain amount of inner pressure to manifest the two planets. This is why squares often indicate what people do really well, even if they find the activity stressful, because they have a constant urge to develop the energies that the planets represent.

Again, it is important to find empowering interpretations. Neptune is the modern ruler of drugs, alcohol, undiagnosed illnesses, mysticism, and the ocean. Mars rules one's aggression, athleticism, assertiveness, and violence. So if someone has Mars square Neptune, she could obviously engage in some pretty self-destructive behaviour! But maybe she lives by the ocean and takes up jogging (Mars) along a beach-front path. Or sailing or sea-kayaking. A Mars square demands a martial expression, but now she has something that satisfies both it and Neptune. Or maybe she turns her Neptunian mysticism into an alternative therapy for injured war veterans (Mars.)

The sign, house, and ruler of the house cusp obviously give a lot of clues as to which solution out of many will feel right to the individual.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:36 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

I think its about understanding the individual needs of the planets involved first. As has been mentioned, one planet in a square or opposition aspect will tend to be favoured over the other (this of course can happen with any aspect - even a trine or conjunction - but is obviously more likely with a square or opposition). The dominant values and instinctive defences suggested by the chart as a whole will usually show which of the planets is favoured and which suppressed, and these defences will need to be relaxed enough to allow some acknowledgement and expression of the more suppressed planet. To express this planet can obviously generate much anxiety and even a deep sense of moral repugnance and humiliation, especially if one has felt condemnation for those on whom the suppressed planet has been projected.

I don't feel I've reached a point of stability or balance with any of my squares (I don't have an oppositions to personal planets) and maybe I never will - maybe that's in the nature of square aspects. But hopefully I've found a place of greater equanimity concerning the planets involved and will continue to cultivate that further in the future.

EDIT: And yes definitely what Waybread said - very useful ideas. I especially like the image of the coach/teacher.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:22 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

Good Response Waybread.

I personally think I'm too young to answer to the handling of the square energies but it's a nice thought of incorporating the opposition energies into one. I have my gloominess with Sun Sq Saturn + Sun Sq Moon because I always feel like I have to struggle for everything I want & it's not pleasant since I Have Libra in 7th (stellium) plus a Pisces rising. I really want a peaceful environment but I never get that.

On the plus point, I like the fact that Sun Sq Mars lends me the assertiveness to continue with my plans despite my Libran moon being eager to please others. Sun Sq Saturn is the point I thank for balancing the 'void of Earth' in my chart. It makes me practical & a high achiever. I can work consistently & become the authority on anything I want. It has taken me the Saturn return to start accepting my talents because I always suffered from low-self esteem & never thought I had anything special despite being exceptionally talented.

Sun Sq Moon is hardest to assimilate. My parents really are worlds apart & don't see eye-to-eye. Relationships are difficult for me. I can't balance them regardless of effort. But since my life is ruled more by my Uranian thought, my emotional needs are completely sacrificed by intellect.

Hope this adds insight for someone. Ny suggestions welcomed.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:01 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

"Look for a planet that might trine and sextile the Sun-Moon opposition."

Robert C Jansky calls this planet(s) "The Mediator Planet(s)"
"Herein,through the MEDIATOR PLANET,lies what might be termed a more satisfactory solution to the problem symbolized by the opposition."

"Squares have no Mediators,but they do have help from other planets...look for other planets in the chart that are either trine or sextile one or both of the planets that are in square.
Source "Interpreting The Aspects." by R C Jansky.1974

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Old 05-16-2012, 01:16 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

Thank you for StillOne posting this particular question and Carris's information. With my squares, I can get so frustrated and feeling very much Stuck! After all, square is between incompatible signs...

Personal thoughts:

I am thinking if there is no natal trine or sextile to help to resolve the square and opposition aspects. Should we consider the transit and progressive planets to find the timing of possible solution? I have been thinking that natal chart is the map but the way our personality formed/direction of destiny also depending on transit and progressive planets...Because transit and progressive planets "marked" the events that might interfere the direction.

Considering the method J.R. suggested, I look for the easy aspects that link both unhappy planets together.

For example,
(1) I want to resolve the problem that I have with my own mother:
Moon square Pluto
Venus trine Moon and Venus semisextile Pluto (minor aspect only )
So Venus is the middle man
Is my chart asking me to use empathy, love and passion (Venus) to forgive?

(2) The other one the mystic Neptune, Mars square Neptune, Venus square Neptune
Moon trine Mars/Venus, Moon semisexile Neptune (again minor!)
And here Moon is the middle man
Is my chart asking me to use intuition, my emotion(Moon) such as following my heart kind of action to response to difficult situation?

No (2) doesn't seem to make sense to me, how to use emotion to deal with illusion (Neptune)!!

Oh WAIT, should we consider the cusp's rulership? For example, my Jupiter rules that stupid Neptune in 4th Sagittarius. And Jupiter Quintile (minor aspect but represents talent of the native) Venus!! And Venus conjunct Mars!! Here we go, maybe religion and philosophy will work for me
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:46 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
One useful trick is to imagine that your squares or oppositions are trines or sextiles. Same planets, just different aspects. What would your life look like if you were to work toward the more empowering interpretations?

Another strategy is to think through how the opposing or squared planets opperate in your life. Let's suppose that someone has the sun in Virgo opposite the moon in Pisces. Virgo is a perfectionist and feels happy when she is improving something. Pisces is highly impressionable, a psychic sponge, with a deep-seated "go with the flow" philosophy of life and a rich imagination.

How does each get its needs met? One way is to "side" with either planet (oftentimes the more personal planet in a pair) and then imagine the other planet as its wise teacher or coach. Virgo coaches Pisces about turning that imagination into beautiful art work. Pisces coaches Virgo about letting go of her need to be perfect because she is just fine the way she is. Both of them are happy when the person takes up yoga.

Squares generate a certain amount of inner pressure to manifest the two planets. This is why squares often indicate what people do really well, even if they find the activity stressful, because they have a constant urge to develop the energies that the planets represent.

Again, it is important to find empowering interpretations. Neptune is the modern ruler of drugs, alcohol, undiagnosed illnesses, mysticism, and the ocean. Mars rules one's aggression, athleticism, assertiveness, and violence. So if someone has Mars square Neptune, she could obviously engage in some pretty self-destructive behaviour! But maybe she lives by the ocean and takes up jogging (Mars) along a beach-front path. Or sailing or sea-kayaking. A Mars square demands a martial expression, but now she has something that satisfies both it and Neptune. Or maybe she turns her Neptunian mysticism into an alternative therapy for injured war veterans (Mars.)

The sign, house, and ruler of the house cusp obviously give a lot of clues as to which solution out of many will feel right to the individual.
Waybread, what you said here are very insightful ! Thank you! I really do think this way we can manipulate this stressful energy to somewhere else in other form!! I do like to walk when I need to clear my thoughts. Sometime after walking 8 hours at work, I will still go to walk more, at time 12 to 14 hours a day to help myself to release those depressive emotions. Exercise helps to release "Endorphin" eating spicy foods (Mars) is also my favorite way to help with releasing the Mars' energy. I think having sex (Mars) will help as well (adult only!) Some people find eating sweet (Venus) can help for example, ice cream and chocolate!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphin

I have Neptune in 4th but never lived by the sea, I should consider moving near to the sea. When I feel extremely down and low or wanting to scream, I would think of going to the beach!! And I do look after old veterans at work! I found veterans and their wives very wise and I like to talk to them a lot. I think the cusp ruler where my stupid Neptune is sitting (ruler Jupiter should be able to help!)

Actually, I always want to have one or two cats for Many Many Many years!! I know 6th house rules pet but which planet rules cat? I always find cats very therapeutic for me! Maybe that will give me some clues!
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:08 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

You have several good pointers to work with. Love Waybread's response! Really nice piece of counseling.

I would just add a note about checking the rulers of the woman's Sun and Moon, and see if they make any aspect to one another. Might be helpful.

Also, every one of us has oppositions to deal with, of sorts: Ascendant v Descendant, IC/MC, even North & South nodes. Those oppositions don't disappear by progression the way that personal planet oppositions will do. We all (well... most of us) learn to integrate the me/you, mom/dad and the rest that's involved in our angles and other permanent oppositions. It just takes time and experience to do it. Sometimes we can work it out through our relationships with other people. I've seen a few people who never reconcile the poles of an opposition and who blame others for all their problems. IMO, that's a basic inability to accept the "other" in an opposition.

I think squares are harder. They are internalized issues that can persist over time and produce a lot of friction. We all have 'issues' in this lifetime, and a square does goad us to tackle those issue and become stronger by that effort. The edges of a square seem to sort of round off as they get buffed (or ground down) by wear over time, as we mature.

If a square involves any of the faster, personal planets, then by progression, these squares dissolve fairly quickly. Once they progress to a trine, that might trigger resolution of an issue.
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:03 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
I found the above to be interesting regarding the square aspect. How to act though? Do we just try different ways until something works? Does the native have an instinctual idea of what needs to be done but is fearful of that action...?

Does anyone have a good example of how they handled a particularly challenging aspect in their chart?
StillOne

If a person never read about astrology and never saw his horoscope would he feel the effect of his/her aspects? I see people whom I know very well, for example immediate family, who have hard aspects in their chart but it is not evident in their personality/behavior/character or in their communications. One immediate family member has a very tight jupiter mercury square and an exact conjunction of moon mars opposite uranus. But these aspects are not evident at all in his personality. On the contrary, he is the most well balanced, well-spoken, peaceful, sociable, successful person I know - nor have these aspects manifested in his life in an external way.

I think our worry and angst increases when we read about "hard" aspects in our horoscope. I find my saturn venus aspect to be very hard - but to be very honest its because I've read so much about it. We become like hypochondriacs - excessively worrying, preoccupied and obsessed - sensing hardship even when there is none. Now everytime something goes even slightly wrong I think, "See I knew it - with saturn venus none of my relationships will ever go right. Woe is me."

Since the angles, ascendant, descendent, mid heaven and nadir are naturally at right angles or at squares and oppositions - why should these aspects be considered in a negative way? Who decide that the triplicities would be harmonious and quadruplicities would be disharmonious? How did they decide that? Was it based on observation? Or were they just sitting around playing with geometry? Why did they decide to divide the sky into 12 signs or houses? In any case these zodiac signs are just place-markers and do not correspond to any real constellations. So why should gemini be considered disharmonious with virgo?

What I'm trying to say is: do these interpretations just mess with our minds? Are these "difficulties" just the psychological effects of being told so? If you keep telling a child that he is bad - he will grow up believing that - and he really will start doing bad things - or imagine the world as a bad place
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
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StillOne

If a person never read about astrology and never saw his horoscope would he feel the effect of his/her aspects? I see people whom I know very well, for example immediate family, who have hard aspects in their chart but it is not evident in their personality/behavior/character or in their communications. One immediate family member has a very tight jupiter mercury square and an exact conjunction of moon mars opposite uranus. But these aspects are not evident at all in his personality. On the contrary, he is the most well balanced, well-spoken, peaceful, sociable, successful person I know - nor have these aspects manifested in his life in an external way.

I think our worry and angst increases when we read about "hard" aspects in our horoscope. I find my saturn venus aspect to be very hard - but to be very honest its because I've read so much about it. We become like hypochondriacs - excessively worrying, preoccupied and obsessed - sensing hardship even when there is none. Now everytime something goes even slightly wrong I think, "See I knew it - with saturn venus none of my relationships will ever go right. Woe is me."

Since the angles, ascendant, descendent, mid heaven and nadir are naturally at right angles or at squares and oppositions - why should these aspects be considered in a negative way? Who decide that the triplicities would be harmonious and quadruplicities would be disharmonious? How did they decide that? Was it based on observation? Or were they just sitting around playing with geometry? Why did they decide to divide the sky into 12 signs or houses? In any case these zodiac signs are just place-markers and do not correspond to any real constellations. So why should gemini be considered disharmonious with virgo?

What I'm trying to say is: do these interpretations just mess with our minds? Are these "difficulties" just the psychological effects of being told so? If you keep telling a child that he is bad - he will grow up believing that - and he really will start doing bad things - or imagine the world as a bad place
Oh well Carris I am a very good example I experienced my Moon/Pluto, Mars/Venus/Neptune square way before I started learning astrology. I felt the square effects all my life. They are very real! Not because I read about those aspects then started panic afterward.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:00 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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StillOne

If a person never read about astrology and never saw his horoscope would he feel the effect of his/her aspects? I see people whom I know very well, for example immediate family, who have hard aspects in their chart but it is not evident in their personality/behavior/character or in their communications. One immediate family member has a very tight jupiter mercury square and an exact conjunction of moon mars opposite uranus. But these aspects are not evident at all in his personality. On the contrary, he is the most well balanced, well-spoken, peaceful, sociable, successful person I know - nor have these aspects manifested in his life in an external way.
Indeed, for some people, possibly they have already found the solution to their challenging aspect(s)... or possibly hidden them very well only to suffer privately.

IMO, the people who have found a healthy solution to these challenging aspects have effectively transcended them and thus evolved the soul. Which, in my opinion is what we're here to do. Again IMO, our souls are meant to learn the lessons, to which some are possibly being presented in the natal chart as challenging aspects, and evolve higher.

On the flip side, I also see people who, it's very apparent, have these aspects and don't want to hear about it... essentially avoiding them all together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carris View Post
I think our worry and angst increases when we read about "hard" aspects in our horoscope. I find my saturn venus aspect to be very hard - but to be very honest its because I've read so much about it. We become like hypochondriacs - excessively worrying, preoccupied and obsessed - sensing hardship even when there is none. Now everytime something goes even slightly wrong I think, "See I knew it - with saturn venus none of my relationships will ever go right. Woe is me."
I agree, this can most definitely happen too! I've heard of psychology students studying the material and beginning to think they suffer from varius ailments that they're reading about. So we certainly have to be careful about how much we read into these aspects.

In light of that, I'm sure the effects of a square that involves a cadent house will be felt less... also dignities, debilities, etc.

Also as we've seen, squares can be incredibly productive! So helping someone that wants to embrace this aspect can make them more effective and efficient.

Last edited by StillOne; 05-16-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:06 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

I have to agree the best of me is formed after overcame or learned while experiencing these hard aspects. If I have a chance to go back in time. I would still choose the same path although I was indeed in a lot of pain. Those lessons were so valuable. I would choose the same path just to become the person that I am right now.

Tear, pain, anguish, disappointments force you to grow up to become a better You. Like a beautiful and powerful sword must go through the pain during the crafting procedure. I would rather to be a beautiful and powerful sword. So understanding how to overcome these aspects in a way assisted us to understand the valuable lessons of theses aspects have for us. And for those searching for answers while experiencing these aspects might also be benefit by reading this thread.

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Old 05-16-2012, 05:30 PM
Judy_AzVirgo Judy_AzVirgo is offline
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

When we obsess over a square or opposition, I think we're practicing some linear thinking: one planet/element/angle against another.

Maybe one solution is to think holistically: everything in the chart is just part of the whole, and all of the pieces do work together to give us a functioning personality. Accept that, and maybe the pieces start to come together.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:34 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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Originally Posted by Carris View Post
What I'm trying to say is: do these interpretations just mess with our minds? Are these "difficulties" just the psychological effects of being told so? If you keep telling a child that he is bad - he will grow up believing that - and he really will start doing bad things - or imagine the world as a bad place
I understand what you're saying, but as we saw in my "twelfth house interpretation request" thread, astrology was accurately able to pinpoint my psychology. This is the reason I have an interest in astrology in the first place... to understand my, and others, nature better. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for some very accurate descriptions of the aspects I have, and my interest in transcending them, and hopefully along the way helping others do the same.

Last edited by StillOne; 05-16-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:43 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

I reckon that is healthy to talk about how we view and how we experienced those aspects in a way we heal ourselves. Talking and analysising them from all possible angles allowing us to understand the situation better. We don't have to be right all the time. And here we can see so many different point of views. It is really fascinating to see the variation of human mind!! We can all learn by sharing differences and appreciate our differences so at the end we all have a boarder mind.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

I have Saturn square Pluto in my chart. There aren't very many descriptions of this aspect online (I do have books at home but a lot of my posts are from work! Lol .)

One of the things I feel I need in my life is discipline and how sometimes I struggle with finding that.

I took a quick look around online and found this blog and I liked how it broke these particular planets into Excessive and Deficient in their natures. I think this helped put a perspective on how to readjust and as Carris mentioned earlier: Act.
  • Quote:
    • SATURN ISSUES: Structure; discipline; desire for quality and accomplishment; maturity; authority; perseverance; realism.
    • EXCESS: Rigid, perfectionistic, hypercritical, authoritarian; fearful, depressed; workaholic.
    • DEFICIT: Lack self-discipline, structure, goals, and planning; irresponsible, give up easily.
    • PLUTO ISSUES: Power and control; trust; to analyze what lies beneath the surface and eliminate the undesirable; separateness; holding on to things or feelings; death and rebirth.
    • EXCESS: Alternates isolation/symbiosis; controlling; mistrustful; overly intense; bitter, vengeful.
    • DEFICIT: Unable to look deeply within; lack of psychological insight; insufficient desire for transformation; stuck.
source: http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2009/...h-that-aspect/
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:03 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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how to use emotion to deal with illusion (Neptune)!!
Perhaps with the imagination, which is the realm of both Moon and Neptune.

But as you say semisextile is a minor aspect - a fragile connection.

When two planets are in close square they will activate some of the same midpoints, so maybe there are clues there too?
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:12 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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When two planets are in close square they will activate some of the same midpoints, so maybe there are clues there too?
I figured midpoints probably had an involvement in this topic. Could some help then be gathered from the house and sign the midpoint falls in?
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:19 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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I think our worry and angst increases when we read about "hard" aspects in our horoscope. I find my saturn venus aspect to be very hard - but to be very honest its because I've read so much about it. We become like hypochondriacs - excessively worrying, preoccupied and obsessed - sensing hardship even when there is none. Now everytime something goes even slightly wrong I think, "See I knew it - with saturn venus none of my relationships will ever go right. Woe is me."
But sometimes it can work the other way. If someone does not understand why the same difficult dynamic keeps arising in their lives, then looking at in terms of this planet square that planet can have a very positive effect. The struggle is validated because it has a definite root in one's psyche. I've often heard friends say, after a visit to a doctor for tests, something like, "If one of the tests comes back positive at least I'll know what I'm dealing with - what is at the root of these symptoms. And then I'm in a better position to do something about them."

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Originally Posted by Carris View Post
What I'm trying to say is: do these interpretations just mess with our minds? Are these "difficulties" just the psychological effects of being told so? If you keep telling a child that he is bad - he will grow up believing that - and he really will start doing bad things - or imagine the world as a bad place
But one person will take on such messages at a very deep level, and another will brush them off. The difference is the difference in temperaments of the two people which was shown in their charts from the moment they were born, regardless of whether or not anyone actually cast that chart for them.

I take your point about the potential misuses of astrology though, definitely.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:25 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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Oh well Carris I am a very good example I experienced my Moon/Pluto, Mars/Venus/Neptune square way before I started learning astrology. I felt the square effects all my life. They are very real! Not because I read about those aspects then started panic afterward.
Same for me. I knew about my Pluto-Saturn-Moon-Mars conjunction Leo in the 12th squared by Sun in Taurus in the 9th long before I ever looked at a natal chart. And the chart surely did explain A LOT when I finally was able to see it.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:32 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

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I figured midpoints probably had an involvement in this topic. Could some help then be gathered from the house and sign the midpoint falls in?
I personally don't look at the house where a midpoint falls. But perhaps if two planets are in square aspect, their midpoint's house position in particular could be useful seeing how to integrate the planets' energies. This could be valid in general, or it could be valid only by virtue of the fact that when a transiting or progressed planet passes over that midpoint, it is in that house as it does so. Using this idea would probably mean using the house polarity (e.g. 6 and 12 rather than just 6) because there are of course two direct midpoints for each pair of points - the near one and the far one).

But I was mainly thinking about how to see which other natal points are involved with the tensely aspecting planets. For example, if someone has Moon and Mars at 16 degrees of Taurus and Leo respectively, then any midpoint which falls within orb of 16 degrees of a fixed sign will be on both the Moon midpoint tree and the Mars midpoint tree and may offer clues as to how the tension in the square can be released creatively. You could also look at midpoints landing within orb of 1 degree of cardinal signs, which fall on the Mars and Moon trees in a 45 degree sort. If the Venus/Mercury or Neptune/Mercury were such a midpoint then perhaps creative writing would be a good way to express Moon and Mars urges. Or if Jupiter/Saturn were on both trees then it may be appropriate to find a social context for the Moon Mars square..

But of course the whole chart must be looked at, including the house positions of the Moon and Mars, the positions of the rulers of these planets, the chart's emphases, etc, etc.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:50 PM
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Re: Overcoming Challenging Aspects Using Solutions Found in the Natal Chart

Poyi, Jupiter and Neptune are a good combination for the study of religion and mysticism. Jupiter deals more in conventional theology, and Neptune, with personal spirituality.

StillOne, I would think of Saturn/Pluto as potentially giving a hard edge to your personality, but you should also have tremendous staying power (Saturn) in a program of ongoing personal transformation (Pluto.) Saturn does really well with self-discipline, which could be helpful for all kinds of Plutonian themes.

Pluto fundamentally deals with cyclical time. sex-birth-life-death-rebirth. Pluto was the god of the underworld in Roman mythology, but he also ruled the wealth (such as minerals) found under the ground. Also, Prosperpine (Persephone), his queen and the symbol of the life-spirit, returns to the surface annually with the joyous revival of new plant life following its period of dormancy.

If you are at all artistic, for example, you might sketch or write poetry with Plutonian themes, and then use Saturn to perfect your work. If you are athletic, take up caving (spelunking) or diving. Or volunteer at a HIV-AIDS drop in centre or hospice, using your Saturn to provide some helpful structure for the patients.

These ideas are only suggestive. Depending upon your planets' signs and houses, and any other planets involved, you can come up with something that suits you.

Also, I realize that for someone who is struggling to cope with life's darker side, Pollyanna suggestions may seem like so much sublimation, or even silly. But the universe notices when we take baby steps to help ourselves, and gradually you should start to feel some realignment.

Also, for anyone whose chart has few mitigating "helper" planets, look for supportive transits. Somebody's Saturn opposite sun, for example, may be extremely difficult. But along comes transiting Jupiter or Uranus trining the sun and sextiling Saturn. These are times when the universe gives us an extra little boost.
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