Out of Bounds Mercury

[SagiCap]

I've just discovered what "out of bounds" planets are and noticed I have an OOB Mercury at 1deg, Cap. Anyone have more explanation of that? It's hard to find exactly what I'm looking for online - which is, real-life descriptions.

Would also be interested in hearing about OOB Venus. Thanks!

[Inconjunct]

I think this is some new thing some modern astrologers have cobbled together, being dissatisfied with having only ten planets, twelve signs, twelve houses, four major angles, six major aspects, midpoints, asteroids and hypothetical points to consider.

[SagiCap]

Some interesting info I found:

The Moon, Mercury, Venus and Mars, all occasionally travel out of bounds. Basically, it seems to be an "extreme" expression of that planet's energy within the sign it occupies. One with an out of bounds Mars can be said to be very physically inclined, gifted or imbalanced to the Martian expression. Many athletes or dancers for example, have an out of bounds Mars. If your Venus is out of bounds, you are most likely highly seductive, attractive and all things Venusian. ie: This is probably the most obvious thing about your aura/personality. I am supposedly a smarty-pants with an out of bounds Mercury.... ha! Out of bounds may also pertain to be "wildly expressed" energies, not given to limitations. I may always think out of the box, in oppostion to others and take concepts from a completely different perspective than others sitting in the same meeting, looking at the same info. This is actually true and happened today a few times already. lol!

Specifically out of bounds Venus and Mars: http://venusmars.tribe.net/thread/7e...1-b40f8ad1a5dc

Moon:
http://www.forrestastrology.com/Gene...of-bounds-moon

Out-of-bounds planets are any that have a declination greater than 23 degrees 27’. The declination is the angular distance of a planet north or south of the celestial equator. http://erosastrology.proboards.com/i...rint&thread=20

How planets go out of bounds: www.mandala.be/declination/pamela.htm)
from page: http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/e6...5-b13bc7188b9d

Anecdotal links: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/For...ML/019165.html

[stainedBlue]

Originally Posted by SagiCap

How planets go out of bounds: www.mandala.be/declination/pamela.htm

The above link returns 404, but luckily it was caught in archive: http://web.archive.org/web/201004060...ion/pamela.htm

I also share an OOB Mercury, along with Uranus. From what I've been able to learn about OOB planets, they're basically free of confinement in their expression, making them 'extreme' as various articles I've been able to find have suggested. Seems to me that would make them more natural in expression, but I also tend to think 'outside the box.'

[StillOne]

Interesting, So would these be out of bounds? I have my Moon by declination at 24° 1'58" N in Gemini in the 12th. Also Venus at 24°10'12" S in Sag in the 5th. I suppose I'm not surprised by these findings...

[I cee]

Just bumping this thread!

Has got me curious, I know nothing about this??

How does one find if they have an out of bounds moon, merc, etc

Never heard of this before?

More info please

Anyone??

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by I cee

Just bumping this thread!

Has got me curious, I know nothing about this??

How does one find if they have an out of bounds moon, merc, etc

Never heard of this before?

More info please

Anyone??

This is how I roughly recall it. Others may correct if I have some details in error.

The typical identification of a planet, like 25 Pisces 15, is determined by its position longitudinally, that is, as it moves over the lines on the globe that run "up" and "down" through the poles. The position of a planet is also identified by how far above or below it is from the equator. This is called its latitude.

In astrology, the latitude part of the planet's position is referred to as its declination. It will be either north [N] or south [S] of the equator. If two planets have the same declination and are both above or below the equator, say, within a degree, they are parallel. If they have the same declination, but one is above the equator [N] and the other is below [S], they are contraparallel. Parallel corresponds to a conjunction, contraparallel, to an opposition.

If a planet's declination is outside the path that the planets tend to follow latitudinally in the skies [the ecliptic], which is about + or - 23 degrees of declination, they are considered out of bounds [OOB] and are seen as a bit maverick or rogue.

The Sun is never OOB, as its path defines the boundary of OOB. Most reports that list your planets, including the detailed ones generated at astro.com, show the declination.

Hope this helps some.

[I cee]

Thankyou Ilenek
That was very helpful of you!
I do appreciate!
So I would have an OOB moon and merc?
Dare I ask what that would mean, in your opinion?
OOB sounds a little chaotic!

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by I cee

Thankyou Ilenek
That was very helpful of you!
I do appreciate!
So I would have an OOB moon and merc?
Dare I ask what that would mean, in your opinion?
OOB sounds a little chaotic!

I'm not sure I can say more that what others have said here in this thread and in the links that they included. Mercury and Moon will behave an in more atypical manner, contraparallel as they are by declination. I think the term "out of bounds" may kind of describe the behaviour. Sorry I am not more help, but I haven't looked at declinations in a while.

We can say that your Sun and Mercury are parallel, so that will have an effect similar to a conjunction. Sun-Moon and Moon-Mercury are contraparallel, which connects them with oppositional energy. If these pairs of planets, which are connected by declination, are also in traditional aspect to one another, this will amplify the effect.

[StillOne]

Originally Posted by IleneK

If these pairs of planets, which are connected by declination, are also in traditional aspect to one another, this will amplify the effect.

I didn't realize that parallel/contra-parallel in addition to traditional conjunction/opposition would amplify the effect... I was told to disregard planets that were already in aspect by conj/opp when looking into the parallels... But then, I learned this here so maybe this person was incorrect in this respect...?

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by StillOne

I didn't realize that parallel/contra-parallel in addition to traditional conjunction/opposition would amplify the effect... I was told to disregard planets that were already in aspect by conj/opp when looking into the parallels... But then, I learned this here so maybe this person was incorrect in this respect...?

I'm reaching back probably 10 years ago, so I'm not swearing to it, but as I recall, it is considered an amplification if the planets are in aspect by longitude [traditional astrological aspects] and also by declination. Because they literally are closer together if they are also parallel by declination.

Perhaps your other source might comment on why one would disregard planets that were already in aspect by conj/opp when considering declination?

[stainedBlue]

Originally Posted by StillOne

I didn't realize that parallel/contra-parallel in addition to traditional conjunction/opposition would amplify the effect... I was told to disregard planets that were already in aspect by conj/opp when looking into the parallels... But then, I learned this here so maybe this person was incorrect in this respect...?

IleneK is correct in saying there is an amplification (or modification would be more accurate, depending on the regular aspect in question) of the aspect. Parallels are supposedly equal in strength to a conjunction; and when two planets are both conjunct and parallel there is much emphasis added to that particular pairing. Contra-parallels seem to be given similar if not equal weight to an opposition, from what I've been able to find on them.

As far as out of bounds planets go, they're basically operating 'outside the box' of limitation, giving them more of an unrestrained freedom to be expressed more purely. Whether this is considered chaotic depends on perspective and how the person in question handles the imparted energies. I've had difficulty finding much satisfactory information on them in my searching, so I'm not really sure how to utilize them in my interpretations.

[StillOne]

Originally Posted by IleneK

Perhaps your other source might comment on why one would disregard planets that were already in aspect by conj/opp when considering declination?

I'm sure that source would be more than happy to chime in... if they weren't banned...

Anyhow, it could be my misinterpretation of what they said and it's been awhile ago now so maybe I don't remember accurately. However, what you say about amplification seems logical and like usual, very interesting

In post #21, Dr. Farr agrees that parallels in fact are of a stronger nature than conjunctions by latitude. However, he mentions also that he does not account for contra-parallels!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=22723

[I cee]

Thankyou Stillone for your nudge to the other thread!

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by StillOne

<..>However, what you say about amplification seems logical and like usual, very interesting

In post #21, Dr. Farr agrees that parallels in fact are of a stronger nature than conjunctions by [long]itude. However, he mentions also that he does not account for contra-parallels!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=22723

Thank you for the reference to Dr Farr's post that follows.

Originally Posted by dr. farr

As I have posted in other threads, I do not account for/delineate the contra-parallels, primarily because I have a question if they really are in fact like oppositions (some older authorities considered Parallel the same as conjunction REGARDLESS of which side of the ecliptic they were on, so this made me hesitate to look at contra-parallels as = to oppositions)

However, that the single MOST important aspect-related indication in any chart is the close Parallel of declination, yes I certainly consider that these need to be taken very seriously, as being similar to-but more "powerful" than-conjunctions in longitude.

If I understand Dr Farr correctly, the reason he chooses not to delineate the contra-parallel as an opposition is that some older authorities treated both the parallel and the contra-parallel the same as the conjunction. So it appears the issue may be more about whether to treat the contra-parallel like an opposition or a like a conjunction as per the authorities he refers to. However, I do not presume to speak for the good doctor; perhaps he might elucidate?

But in either case it seems that the tight contra-parallel may merit some consideration in the examination of one's own chart, if not in a professional practice, especially if the two planets in question are either in conjunction or opposition by longititude. I can say that in the case of my natal chart, I have a Sun-Moon square that always seemed pretty dramatic to me, although the orb was over 3 degrees apart. Now Moon is in Leo, so that accounts for some of the drama :-), but then I found out that they were parallel with an orb of 15 seconds and that really helped me understand. Likewise, I have a Jupiter-Uranus opposition, again, fairly wide, greater than 3 degrees. They are also tightly contra-parallel by about a half a degree of orb. So, to me, the opposition, is reiterated.

A final comment, if I may, about the behaviour of OOB planets. I would say that the expression of an OOB planet can very tightly reined in as readily as it can be excessive. You just know that it will not be behaving within the bounds of its traditional expression.

Just my thoughts and thank you for bringing Dr Farr's comments forward.

[Astro-Intuitive]

Good Morning.

Parallels and contraparallels are of the same strength in power as conjunctions in longitude. They are more powerful than all of the remaining aspects in longitude, because their aspects/influences remain constant as the earth rotates on its axis and do not change in angular vibrations (in power and strength) as do aspects in longitude.

With respect to the difference between parallels and contraparallels, northern parallels of declination affect an individual as a result of external events or circumstances going on around him or her (a new job/promotion, relocating to a new place of residence, starting of a new business, etc., are some examples) , whereas southern parallels of declination are highly personal and affect an individual only (overcoming personal addictions, inner awakenings, etc., are two examples).

Contraparallels, on the hand, often appear when the nature of event pertains to two or more individuals representing different sides of a situation and where both will be equally affected. Hence, marriages, competitions won, battles in court, negotiations, major purchases, etc., are often accompanied by contraparallels.

Take care.

[IleneK]

Originally Posted by Astro-Intuitive

Good Morning.

Parallels and contraparallels are of the same strength in power as conjunctions in longitude. They are more powerful than all of the remaining aspects in longitude, because their aspects/influences remain constant as the earth rotates on its axis and do not change in angular vibrations (in power and strength) as do aspects in longitude.

With respect to the difference between parallels and contraparallels, northern parallels of declination affect an individual as a result of external events or circumstances going on around him or her (a new job/promotion, relocating to a new place of residence, starting of a new business, etc., are some examples) , whereas southern parallels of declination are highly personal and affect an individual only (overcoming personal addictions, inner awakenings, etc., are two examples).

Contraparallels, on the hand, often appear when the nature of event pertains to two or more individuals representing different sides of a situation and where both will be equally affected. Hence, marriages, competitions won, battles in court, negotiations, major purchases, etc., are often accompanied by contraparallels.

Take care.

Might you say anything about the meaning of these aspects in a natal chart or perhaps refer me to some source materials? I do appreciate your thoughtful comments.

[Astro-Intuitive]

Originally Posted by IleneK

Might you say anything about the meaning of these aspects in a natal chart or perhaps refer me to some source materials? I do appreciate your thoughtful comments.

I'm sorry but I thought I already explained what parallels and contraparallels meant in my answer above. If you want a good reference, you can start with the works of John Willner. His book, The Powerful Declinations, is a good one to start with if you don't know anything about parallels.

If you want clear examples, then the real answers will come from working with validated (spiritual birth time) horoscopes, which is what I do. I have many examples from the horoscopes that I've personally verified since 2002. For the sake of brevity, I will show you just one horoscope/example. It is of Joseph (or Joe) McMoneagle.

You may or may not know who this person is, but he is a well-known remote viewer throughout the world. Here is his biography: http://www.mceagle.com/mcmoneagle/bio/bio-joe.html

And photo (followed by Incarn2 runs):



And visual horoscope (of the one highlighted and selected in yellow above):

Looking at this man upon first appearance clearly shows how much the Ascendant sign can be modified. It also shows how "just looking" at a person is not enough to ascertain if he or she is of a particular rising sign. Much more is needed - such as the reported physical birth time (PBT), background research on the person, calculation (via Incarn2 or some iterative method) of the exact moment in which spiritual energy enters the body of an infant, and testing and confirming of important life events within 4 minutes (00* 04') of arc or less.

I said that, because those who study and work with spiritual birth time (SBT) horoscopes and the physiognomy of Ascendants might first assume that Joe McMoneagle has a fixed sign rising, such as Leo. I know I did. But, he does not. He has Libra rising. (Incidentally, his PBT and SBT were not far apart, and both show Libra rising.)

Joe Moneagle does not "look" like the typical Libra rising (and here, again, is why caution ought to be used in making fast judgments on appearance alone). In fact, it is understandable how he could, physiologically, be mistaken as having Leo rising - when one looks at the configuration of planets in his horoscope. Venus (ruler of ASC) is conjunct the Sun. Mercury parallels Venus, which increases androgen hormones and adds muscles. Jupiter is in the first house (which invariably expands the body and could easily make it big-boned). And Mercury makes its closest aspect (being almost exact in degree) to the ASC.

But even with the looks, the Libra temperament and desire for balance and harmony are still there.

Now, getting to the parallels...

If you look to the Declination (Decl) table (last row) in the chart you can see that the Moon is parallel his ASC. This man travels considerably in his life and meets many people along the way (natal Moon in 7th house). This is enhanced by his 3rd/9th house interceptions. But, even without the 3rd/9th house interceptions, he'd still be a traveler and involved with the public in some fashion (although that would not be indicated if one were looking solely from the perspective of longitude aspects).

Since the Moon rules the MC and is parallel his ASC, it also indicates his involvements with, and working for, those in power.

The parallels to his MC are extraordinary for any one human being. Actually, it should come as no surprise when one sees the absolutely powerful aspects made to this angle. They signify his prominence, military career, and working for the government as a secret spy agent.

For example, Pluto and Uranus parallel his MC. Uranus relates to paranormal affairs and Pluto relates to superlative resourcefulness, hidden power, arcane knowledge, the elite, the best of the best, problem-solvers, etc. Anyone with Pluto conjunct or parallel the MC, especially, is almost guaranteed to rise to prominence! Oprah Winfrey has this configuration and also has her ASC parallel MC, Mercury aligned with MC, and Mercury parallel her ASC.

Venus (ruler of his ASC) and Mercury also aligns with the MC (via their parallel to the IC). Again, this corresponds with his personal involvements with those in power, travelings, writings/publications, being in business with his wife as his partner, etc.

That briefly covers the parallels.

As to the longitude aspects....

McMoneagle is a remote reviewer (and psychic), and his horoscope reflects this. Most psychics have strong 3rd and/or 9th houses - where information is taking in and expressed or communicated.

Neptune is in the first house and relates to the type of work he does (Pisces on 6th house cusp). Neptune, along with Pluto, also relates to espionage or undercover or hidden activities.

The horoscope in its entirety also coincides with his involvement and many appearances on shows that tests psychics' abilities. The shows he appears on are mostly over seas.

Mars in the 10th house coincides with his military career. Pluto is in the 11th coincides with not only secret, powerful, intricate plans and schemes but also powerful friends and associates.

Venus, Mercury and Sun in the 4th coincide with the business enterprises he undertakes with his wife (as already mentioned), as his partner, who also provides services.

Over all, these are extremely powerful placements and indicative of one highly capable, efficient, powerful, intelligent and well-versed human being.

These examples (of the parallels/contraparallels) were brief, but hopefully you got the gist of what they mean.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: I also just wanted to add that the Mercury conjunction and parallel to his natal IC (along with the Moon parallel ASC) was responsible for his family constantly moving into many different homes while he was growing up. Another proven astrological fundamental that invariably shows when working with verified horoscopes.

Take care.
Shaun

[IleneK]

Thank you very much for this detailed response. It should be very instructive.

[gen6k]

what do you guys think about the very bottom? theres usually two clusters, the ascending cluster and night time cluster.

i think the out of bounds makes the 12th house planets a bit more prominent instead of stifled.

[Astro-Intuitive]

Originally Posted by IleneK

Thank you very much for this detailed response. It should be very instructive.

You are very welcome. I've learned a lot - and am still learning - so the least I can do is share what has been found to be valid, reliable and practical with respect to astrological fundamentals.

As long as understand the fundamentals (from example valid horoscopes), you can pretty much extract and apply the same principles to your own and others' horoscopes. And for a very long time (while never getting bored because you'll be learning additional fundamentals along the way)!

Have a great weekend!
Shaun

[Astro-Intuitive]

Originally Posted by gen6k

what do you guys think about the very bottom? theres usually two clusters, the ascending cluster and night time cluster.

i think the out of bounds makes the 12th house planets a bit more prominent instead of stifled.

Hello,

Excuse me, but...I'm not sure I know what you're talking about re: "the very bottom" and "clusters". Are you, perhaps, referring to a post from someone else that I did not read? If so, then I apologize.

Goodnight.