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  #1  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:22 PM
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The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

I'm going to be developing a fundamental trait list and a bunch of other lists and, as someone put it, "Hierarchical Saturnian" stuff, because before I know what I'm working with, I can't work with anything, and neither should anyone else, because that creates safety issues in real life, such as "Hmm, what's in this bottle? I don't know, but I'm going to drink it!"

Traits:
Hot/cold = extraversion and introversion respectively
Wet/dry = I don't know yet
Light/dark = I've seen this a few times, but I don't understand what it's about yet
Male/female = Dominating or submitting? (Saturn is cold but male according to Lilly & others, and Uranus and Pluto are probably cold but male too, but no known planets are hot but female)

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Old 03-06-2012, 01:02 AM
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Zonark Zonark is offline
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
I'm going to be developing a fundamental trait list and a bunch of other lists and, as someone put it, "Hierarchical Saturnian" stuff, because before I know what I'm working with, I can't work with anything, and neither should anyone else, because that creates safety issues in real life, such as "Hmm, what's in this bottle? I don't know, but I'm going to drink it!"

Traits:
Hot/cold = extraversion and introversion respectively
Wet/dry = I don't know yet
Light/dark = I've seen this a few times, but I don't understand what it's about yet
Male/female = Dominating or submitting? (Saturn is cold but male according to Lilly & others, and Uranus and Pluto are probably cold but male too, but no known planets are hot but female)
I suggest picking through the rather painful discussion I had with NorthNodePisces here for clues on all these polarities;

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ght=Chiromancy

We get into it starting at post #14. Debated on all the manner of elemental polarities, properties of matter and so on. It's an annoying read but I think you'll get something out of it.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:10 AM
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

I keep trying to, although I don't get the palmistry stuff well enough to follow very well.

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Originally Posted by Zonark View Post
Separation will make things longer, not shorter, as it causes space to gather between them. Moistness is condensation, so gathering, shortening and compacting of matter.

"Heat is the activating and dispersive quality, cold shuts things down and conserves. Hence Culpeper's statement that "cold doth binde the substance"."


The area around that says that moisture allows movement and dryness doesn't.

"Dryness is the quality that resists and gives form. It is hard, compact and insular. Imagine the difference between a mud brick before and after it's been fired. Moisture makes the brick adaptable and impressionable, whereas the firing process dries the brick and sets it into a strong, structured, resistant object. Moisture receives and allows for the absorption of matter, dryness resists letting other matter into its structure. For this reason, physiologically, bones, cartilage, hair, nails and ligaments are all considered dry. Where the dry quality occurs in the body, or where there is an abnormal concentration of it, it blocks the passage and intermingling of other substances in that area. "
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:23 AM
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
I'm going to be developing a fundamental trait list and a bunch of other lists and, as someone put it, "Hierarchical Saturnian" stuff, because before I know what I'm working with, I can't work with anything, and neither should anyone else, because that creates safety issues in real life, such as "Hmm, what's in this bottle? I don't know, but I'm going to drink it!"

Traits:
Hot/cold = extraversion and introversion respectively
Wet/dry = I don't know yet
Light/dark = I've seen this a few times, but I don't understand what it's about yet
Male/female = Dominating or submitting? (Saturn is cold but male according to Lilly & others, and Uranus and Pluto are probably cold but male too, but no known planets are hot but female)
Venus would be Hot and Female. Venus certainly isn't a cold planet. Positively scalding and sulfurous.

I dislike polarizing the planets because it assumes that they can be ruled by a binary system of dualities, whereas I think the planets are far more than that and have multiple potential modes of expression, at least in an archetypal sense.

As I see it;
Sun is Substantiating
Mercury is Connective
Venus is Receptive
Moon is Sublimating
Mars is Active
Jupiter is Expansive
Saturn is Restrictive
Uranus is Anomalous
Neptune is Intuitive
Pluto is Transformative
Chiron is Individuating (a process that is different than the Sun's individuation via substantiation because Chiron wounds to create differences and heals by the very same property, the ultimate difference being your unique individuality, a special kind of wound that no one can truly understand)

Sun is Male
Mercury is Asexual
Venus is Female
Moon is Female
Mars is Male

And the rest of the planets are pansexual, beyond sex dualities or triplicities. Even the simple Yin Yang polarity doesn't work for every planet, for example

Sun is Yang
Mercury is clearly both
Venus is Yin
Moon is clearly Yin
Mars is Yang
Jupiter is Yang
Saturn is Yin
Uranus is both, same as Mercury, could arguably be Yang though
Neptune is mostly Yin
Pluto is mostly Yin
Chiron... mostly Yang?
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:29 AM
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

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Venus would be Hot and Female. Venus certainly isn't a cold planet. Positively scalding and sulfurous.

I dislike polarizing the planets because it assumes that they can be ruled by a binary system of dualities, whereas I think the planets are far more than that and have multiple potential modes of expression, at least in an archetypal sense.
Venus is metaphysically cold. It just translates to introversion or possibly some other metaphysically receptive trait, as I wrote. It's not hot for being the "love goddess" either.

I'm trying to go beyond archetypes to see the "why" behind them. For this I need dualities. I need science. I need to avoid logical contradictions. Logic is all about dualities, true or false?

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 03-06-2012 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:54 AM
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
Venus is metaphysically cold. It just translates to introversion or possibly some other metaphysically receptive trait, as I wrote. It's not hot for being the "love goddess" either.

I'm trying to go beyond archetypes to see the "why" behind them. For this I need dualities. I need science. I need to avoid logical contradictions. Logic is all about dualities, true or false?
Have you ever read Robert Anton Wilson's Quantum Psychology? Logic can extend far beyond dualistic dichotomies. I'm a little busy right now so all I can do is recommend that book.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:33 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

One thing, RU: consult indications from all the substantive traditions regarding the planets: from Hellenist, from classical Vedic and from Chinese astrological sources; factor in the important observations of Paracelsus; study the much more extended elemental concepts found in Vedic literature regarding the 5 elements (Tattwa's), plus the Chinese 5 element paradigm (don't simply go with Greek humoralism alone)
This is the type of study I did-comparative astrology, comparative elemental theory; such comparative studies are sadly lacking in our field (astrology) but they are of the greatest value in helping one to come to certain conclusions...
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:33 PM
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

OK, I'll look at more. Maybe other cultures were sane enough to not dichotomize everything like us Westerners, yet still be logical after all. But I still want to do this thing rationally and scientifically.

Also, there are more traits than elemental ones, right? Or are those elements in their own right?

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 03-06-2012 at 08:41 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2012, 04:33 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: The Fundamental Traits of Planets (and other things)

Yes there are other traits, an important one trait being the way (modality, modulation) the elemental energy/quality is being manifested: in astrology these modalities are called moveable (cardinal), fixed and mutable (highly changeable) In alchemy there are about a dozen modulations (ways of expresseion) of elemental qualities/properties.
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