Indicators of Passive Agressive Behavior

SimplyRed · #1 01-28-2007, 07:35 PM

In the recent months I have come to find out in close view this behavior. It states in the DSM that is is almost exclusively male. Just wondering about this. OK, Guys not directed at anyone.
Traits are extreme procrastination, obstruction to any progress, eternal fence sitters. Very ambiguous of goals and relationships. They like the picture unclear and muddy. If someone requests something no matter how big or small, they ignore them. They can appear very cooperative in the beginning and nice, but sooner or later the traits become obvious.

The DSM states it originates with their emotional fragility. They fear emotional dependency and have major problems with anger. In fact, they never display any anger, but do other things to deal with anger, like sulk forever and forever. They can pout when they do not get their way.

A lady I talked with said her husband left her alone with a new born baby for months and she figured it out and left. She said no matter what she requested he either ignored her or took forever to even do anything. He presented something totally different before married.

It seems like the moon sign, since dealing with emotions or fourth house would indicate this.

jjj · #2 01-28-2007, 08:03 PM

I am (female) someone quite agressive myself (mon in scorpio plus venus, mars, jupiter in scorpio) and I have noticed that I attract men that are my opposite (who find it extremely difficult to express anger)... they both have moon in aquarius and venus in cancer. One had mars in cancer, the other´s mars is in virgo.
I noticed that for them any concrete action is difficult, for them to tell you the truth in face (and to be sincere) is nearly impossibie, i guess because they find it hard to be sincere with themselves. Possible reason of this behaviour - extreme fragility (both very blessed in their first relationship, the wife left). Cannot find love any more because for them to open themselves (=honesty, passion, agressive behaviour) is very difficult.
I am still very attracted to one of them and i m the one who keeps going the relationship.

Belgianmoonguy · #3 01-28-2007, 09:19 PM

Passive Agressive Behaviour to me screams Pisces, don't know why

But as a Cancer Sun Sign myself, i can be guilty of it too. I rarely indeed give a direct answer to questions and i'm very ambiguous about almost everything

L.C. · #4 01-28-2007, 09:48 PM

Interesting observations, SimplyRed. Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, if you will, but you've described a lot of traits that I have.

I have both Mars and Saturn in Cancer. I always felt that Mars in Cancer folks get things done, but only when they feel like it!

I'm ambiguous or unrealistic with my goals, and, according to this very site, that's due to my Jupiter squaring Neptune: my sense of expansion being more or less muddled with a dreamlike take on life, and being self-indulgent.

To me, sulking is a form of self-indulgence.

Venuslure · #5 01-28-2007, 10:00 PM

I'd have to say having Mars in Cancer would make for passive aggresive behavior. I have this placement and I am pretty passive aggresive(speaking for myself)

Francesca · #6 01-28-2007, 10:14 PM

Yet some very successful boxers have Mars in Cancer, and some of the greatest generals and conquerors have been Cancers.. I would look for any Mars without a clear avenue of expression, besieged by hard Saturn aspects, maybe? I've known some Mars in Cancer people who were very passive aggressive, though. And passive aggressive behavior is clearly NOT restricted to males or even mosre prevalent IMO. Women can be masters of it, myself included.

milkywaygirl · #7 01-28-2007, 10:22 PM

yeah mars in cancer or any water sign. mars is aggression, in a water sign the path that aggression can take is more diffused than say a fire sign where it would be more of a direct path or outward flow.

SimplyRed · #8 01-29-2007, 03:35 AM

Thanks guys, not really thought about Mars cancer, nor cancer period.

I would say yea, strong pisces Neptune could be this way. For some reason, more thinking about the moon, but then Mars is aggression or anger.
The lady I talked to said, her spirit was broken after being around it. She said, I felt non human after awhile. Afterwards, she said she got better after leaving.

Indirect, seems complicated. Feelings are also venus, moon, and mars, Seems a difficult saturn aspect could do it as well. Really do not know. Never really heard much about this until recently. It is also associated with different other diagnosis.

At times, I wonder if any diagnostic DSM is really capturing a person's soul and spirit. I do not like to heavily lean toward labels.
I read today, soul and spirit are different. The soul feels, the spirit observes.

It is from an article, care of the soul. by Thomas Moore. The magazine Spirituallity and Health. He states nothing wrong with a soul that feels sadnes and there is no time table to stop feeling sadness
He said the spirit keeps us vital and alive, but can be too pure and judgemental, critical.
The soul makes us human because we feel feel sadness and emotional pain.

Maybe some of these passive aggressive people were not allowed to feel pain or sadness. Who knows

Howl · #9 01-29-2007, 05:32 AM

Heheh, I'm not sure that I qualify as a passive-aggressive, but I am somewhat "indirect". I assign this, primarily, to Mars in Virgo squaring Neptune in Sagittarius (though a Cancer ascendant and 7H Venus probably contribute).

When angry, I will most likely go quiet, leave the situation, and vent my frustration through thinking/writing/talking to someone else (Gemini moon, as well as Mars being in the 3H. I can write livid poison

) I would only choose to "return" when I feel that I have something certain, objective and balanced to say. Pure anger rarely, if ever, comes out impulsively from me.

I want to be angry away from people and come back when I feel clearer. Sounds like a Neptune/Mars square, doesn't it? I think I handle this aspect well enough not to qualify as a rabid passive-aggressive, although I have played it a little in the past. I find it painful to be very angry with people. I think Pure mars anger offends my sense of connection with people, I can't believe that someone would willingly create situations in which I need to feel that way! Especially those who I feel close to. I have found it difficult to manage/feel/accept anger towards people I love who have hurt me, my feelings tended to swing between idealisation and acceptance, and blunt hate. These things are hard to reconcile!

The only circumstance in which my Neptune - Mars square is truly comfortable is where I am expressing my philosophical/theoretical/abstract/academic points of view. With Neptune in Sagittarius (loosely conjunct Sun/Mercury), I am an incurable and idealistic big thinker, especially about how the world could be run (Neptune in the 6H). My 3H Virgo Mars is comfortable asserting these kinds of thoughts

Belgianmoonguy · #10 01-29-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.C.

Interesting observations, SimplyRed. Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, if you will, but you've described a lot of traits that I have.

I have both Mars and Saturn in Cancer. I always felt that Mars in Cancer folks get things done, but only when they feel like it!

I'm ambiguous or unrealistic with my goals, and, according to this very site, that's due to my Jupiter squaring Neptune: my sense of expansion being more or less muddled with a dreamlike take on life, and being self-indulgent.

To me, sulking is a form of self-indulgence.

From my personal Mars in Cancer experience (conjunct Sun) i totally agree with you... When i'm in the getting stuff done mood, there's no stopping me... but it takes long time before i'm in the mood...

SimplyRed · #11 01-29-2007, 07:40 PM

When angry, I will most likely go quiet, leave the situation, and vent my frustration through thinking/writing/talking to someone else (Gemini moon, as well as Mars being in the 3H. I can write livid poison

) I would only choose to "return" when I feel that I have something certain, objective and balanced to say. Pure anger rarely, if ever, comes out impulsively from me.

This is NOT passive aggressive, LOL
This seems like you are using good sense to me. You are not subjecting anyone to your poison:38: It is left on paper. Paper may dissolve. All the great tales may go up in smoke.

PA are not even aware of their anger, It is there but somewhere they do not know.

I do not know a whole lot about it, except it is major detrimental to relationships and work.

GeminianCancer · #12 01-30-2007, 02:10 AM

Hey, I'm a Mars in Cancer too, but my Mars conjuncts my Mercury. Plus, I have a Gemini Moon, so that makes me verbalize my feelings. I prefer to be direct when I have a concern to address. I'd imagine a strong 12th House influence might make one more prone to passive-aggressiveness, or just a Pisces emphasis in general, but other factors in their chart might play a major role. I know my own Pisces friend is far from passive-agressive!

Watersign · #13 01-30-2007, 03:15 AM

Hi,

I have mars in aries in the twelfth house and I have to resist the urge to be passive aggressive.

Teddybull · #14 01-30-2007, 10:15 AM

SR,
When I read your posts it was written for my ex who had mars in Cancer conjunct uranus (sq neptune) involving the 3rd and 6th houses. I used to think it was becuz he was defiant of me, I used to tell him to do things that needed to be done and it never got done on my time schedule. Things would get worse, rot or break.

It was so frustrating to me. I have mars in cap conj saturn. I use to just figure it out myself or call someone. I can not live with a procrastinator.

Definite anger issues in him. Very sulky, brooding. Had to get his way. He also knew that if he didn't do it, I would get it done somehow. And when he finally did do it, it was hell for me. Very bad moods and just downright hatred. He was also slothy. Didn't pick up after himself, could just as happily live in a pig sty as well as a clean home.

SimplyRed · #15 01-31-2007, 11:47 AM

This is strange, Cancer seems to come up more than any sign.

I would have thought a bad Mars or something, however I know someone with an Aries Mars and very PA. I think the problem is Saturn conjunct Venus,

Could be any number of aspects. signs.

I think the core is how does the chart indicate expression of the self.

I did know a Cancer Mars boss once, God he was so indirect and hated any sort of confrontation. What was odd, is how he allowed people to manipulate him in the workplace. It was so bad, the manipulators made it a pure nightmare for people who had good work ethics. The good work ethics people had to pick up the slack over and over until they left.

TeddyBull, I can surely relate to the not doing anything. It is maddening. What is worse, is how bad it effects them personally as well. Not just the other people. It is like they have very selective hearing or something.

flea · #16 02-11-2007, 02:00 PM

I have Moon in Cancer opp Mars, which have been the main players in this discussion. I do have an aversion to conflict, it makes me feel uncomfortable. Sometimes I put up with very bad behaviour to avoid an imagined negative confrontational experience. I can connect this expereince with the mars moon conflicts.
To my mind passive aggressive or straight aggression indicates to me a desire to manipulate and control events in order to acheive something. Often to limit negative emotions such as jealousy and fear. This would seem to belie a lack of faith in life, trust in the universe etc.

However I don't think there is an aspect that tells you if someone is passive aggressive as I feel there is always some level of choice to personal behaviour. I think of the chart as an expression of the universal energy that is personally avaiable to you in this lifetime. What you chose to do with it is a personal choice. Many many people with act in a manipulative and controlling way to some people and not others depending what triggers they push.

I think Cancer has come up in this discussion because it is a sign that investigates emotional depth more than any other (Scorpio and Pisces being the other emotional players), it can smother or it can nuture. If you have Cancer energy your personal emotions and those of others cannot be ignored. It is part of you life to experience and understand what they mean. And you cannot look up any of this information in books. You have no choice but to walk into the experience to learn from your body, your mind, your feelings.

Love and Light
Flea

SimplyRed · #17 02-12-2007, 04:46 AM

Hi Flea,

I like what you wrote. Feelings and acknowledgement. Thanks

I have a Sag moon and somehow draw in many Cancer moons. My Jupiter conjunct them or in the reversal.

I did a thread on the Cancer sign to find out more, cause for a Sag moon cancer is major alien to me as far as reactions to situations.

What came out of the thread, Cancer people have an incredibe ability with their own energy fields, more so than Scorpio. They seem to have an ability to withdraw or send out good or bad energy at will. This goes beyond the moodines. Hey, I am moody myself and use to be a horror show at confrontations. I did not do them. I retreated.
I am better, but it seems at times I go overboard. Guess I will hit middle ground one day.

From the passive aggressive literature I have read. PA's never express anger, they rarely do. Their goals appear not even logical. Theer is more to PA then anger. It relates to emotional need. Rather than express this, they do other things. I still do not get this behavior very well. I understand the other ones, but PA is wierd to me. I doubt very seriously if anyone writting on this thread is a true PA. They do not admit to it, that in itself with be confrontational.
Cancers go out of their way not to be confrontational., I do not believe all Cancer could be said to be PA. Much more complicated as you state, than a natal chart alone.

flea · #18 02-12-2007, 09:47 AM

Thankyou SR,
I am a sag sun with a cancer moon, so I am a homebody with wanderlust. I agree with you about the emotional projection with Cancer. I understand it to be heightened empathy. It is received from others but also broadcast. Sometimes it means feeling other's emotions, which is tres tricky when you think they are your own. Sometimes I know the best thing is to just move away quietly.

I thought it worth mentioning that when it come to serious psychiartric disorders people will have many diagnosis during their treatment, not just the one label. (thx skbanergt for the info on PAPD very useful)

Dysfunctional relating is a common problem effecting the whole of humanity has to deal with and is what I imagine most of the posts are about on this thread. Misunderstanding our own emotions and how we perceive others emotions to be are a big part of the breakdown in relating. I offer this suggestion to ask ourselves what are our expectations of specific people and have we told them??

Love and Light
Flea

SimplyRed · #19 02-13-2007, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flea

Thankyou SR,
I am a sag sun with a cancer moon, so I am a homebody with wanderlust. I agree with you about the emotional projection with Cancer. I understand it to be heightened empathy. It is received from others but also broadcast. Sometimes it means feeling other's emotions, which is tres tricky when you think they are your own. Sometimes I know the best thing is to just move away quietly.

I thought it worth mentioning that when it come to serious psychiartric disorders people will have many diagnosis during their treatment, not just the one label. (thx skbanergt for the info on PAPD very useful)

Dysfunctional relating is a common problem effecting the whole of humanity has to deal with and is what I imagine most of the posts are about on this thread. Misunderstanding our own emotions and how we perceive others emotions to be are a big part of the breakdown in relating. I offer this suggestion to ask ourselves what are our expectations of specific people and have we told them??

Love and Light

Quote:

Expectations seems like a decent start, of myself and you. I think this where a real breakdown occurs in relationships. Expections is a strong word in relationships. When you begin expecting something, the real person becomes distorded through the lens of need and want. I can say I am guilty of this at times or other's expect this from me and it is not based in reality.

I think many things can go into this. astrology could be even one or even just the fact we often bring our parents into the picture. More distortion.

Have been reading on a site about co dependency written by a psychotherpist. He states that often the people who try to help in these professions are not in touch with their own inner child and do more damage than good. This is another topic alltogether. However, it all does come down to the inner child and dealing with the child within. I also think Labels are worthless. They do give a guide for people, however a label can be very damaging. I started this thread on Passive aggressive, but this in itself is dealing with our child inside who may have been nutured well or not.

Tangled emotions, no one escapes this. I know I have been in situations where WHAT? I imagine others say What? as well. We bring in so many people into just two people at times. However, expression of the true self is the best place to start in the best environment.

The best
SR

Flea

Light and understanding

utopia · #20 02-13-2007, 10:05 AM

hi everyone

I totally agree with belgianmoonguy and L.C.

I have my mars and saturn conjuction in cancer in 12th house.
if I want something n one keeps me from having it but
it really takes time for me to act

I must confess I might face anger outbursts sometimes...

Carole · #21 02-22-2007, 12:47 PM

mmm...maybe because Cancer is known as crabby? ;-)

Carole

SimplyRed · #22 03-21-2007, 02:28 AM

Hi Guys,

I happened to run across this exerpt from a book on PA

Really, occasional angry outbursts are just a small part of this disorder.

http://www.simonsays.com/content/boo...=404304&agid=2

tuesdaysraven · #23 05-06-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplyRed

This is strange, Cancer seems to come up more than any sign.

I did know a Cancer Mars boss once, God he was so indirect and hated any sort of confrontation. What was odd, is how he allowed people to manipulate him in the workplace. It was so bad, the manipulators made it a pure nightmare for people who had good work ethics. The good work ethics people had to pick up the slack over and over until they left.

Same, my ex boss drove me crazy being like this. I also had an ex boyfriend, a Virgo with Cancer asc who was very passive aggressive. As I am an Aries with an afflicted Moon in Cancer I have started to think that the times when I draw in these types is actually a reflection on me and whether or not I am handling my own energies correctly.

Erickaf · #24 07-18-2007, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjj

I am (female) someone quite agressive myself (mon in scorpio plus venus, mars, jupiter in scorpio) and I have noticed that I attract men that are my opposite (who find it extremely difficult to express anger)... they both have moon in aquarius and venus in cancer. One had mars in cancer, the other´s mars is in virgo.
I noticed that for them any concrete action is difficult, for them to tell you the truth in face (and to be sincere) is nearly impossibie, i guess because they find it hard to be sincere with themselves. Possible reason of this behaviour - extreme fragility (both very blessed in their first relationship, the wife left). Cannot find love any more because for them to open themselves (=honesty, passion, agressive behaviour) is very difficult.
I am still very attracted to one of them and i m the one who keeps going the relationship.

I have heavy scorpio and not at all agressive!!!!

I am just intense and emotional. I think maybe mars in water house with 8th house makes someone agressive? I could never have a relationship with an agressive person...I lived with two of them my whole life (my brothers, both Cancers with Mars in Cancer with Venus in Tarus and the other Venus in Gemini). Its hard to deal with them. I know we all have love-hate relationships with brothers/sisters but their tempers and agression made me promise myself to stay away from these people forever lol.

Astrodawn · #25 07-18-2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utopia

I have my mars and saturn conjuction in cancer in 12th house.
if I want something n one keeps me from having it but
it really takes time for me to act

I must confess I might face anger outbursts sometimes...

Very interesting thread, my other half has saturn and mars in cancer 12th house, he is not passive agressive at all. If anything hes the other direction of direct aggresive, although this is probably down to the t squares he has to both of these planets.