The Shadow

[Shining Ray]

I got a new book a couple of weeks ago Astrology for Lovers by Liz Greene. It is mostly a Sun Sign book really. I have only read the chapter on my own sign Pisces, but it does make some very interesting points.

The Shadow side of Pisces is that we make everyone feel Guilty. I never really thought about this before and I had to take a long hard look at myself, and I probably do make people feel guilty at times. I have Sun in Pisces, Moon in Pisces, Mercury in Pisces and Moon/Mercury square my Neptune.

My mother always used to act victimised a lot of the time. If she was upset by something she would say things like "everything I do for you, and all I ask is for you to do one thing, and I get face pulled at me." or "I am not well, and you are not helping me. I am sick and you should all be helping out" you know the sort of thing which makes you feel guilty like you haven't been considerate or helpful and you have been selfish for not helping. Me and my siblings would get the tears, and the tantrums from my mother like we had done something really terrible. We were all very good kids most of us are Virgo Risings funnily enough, not that this ascendant means you are a good kid but we were well behaved. Yet if we said the slightest thing, or said no to something we would get screamed at by my mum and then the tears would flow, and she would make us feel really bad. Even though we had done nothing wrong.

But I have strong Pisces in my chart, and I have been becoming a lot more aware of how I express this energy. Maybe I express it like my mother and make others feel guilty. O.K I admit it is not maybe I make others feel guilty, I do make others feel guilty at times. I don't do it on purpose but I do need to face this shadow side of myself more.

Here's more information from my book on the Pisces shadow.

In ordinary situations, Pisces tends to be the victim. We can meet this figure in many Pisceans - they are the one's taken advantage of, used, bled white for money and sympathy, made to feel obligated through their tendency to feel guilty for every body's sins. It is almost inevitably the Pisces who stays with the violent husband, nurses the schizophrenic wife, supports the ailing mother, gives up this and that or the other thing to help somebody else. It is sometimes very hard to tell if these are the noblest or the silliest of human beings; and whether they are truly saints or wield a tremendous power through making the other feel hopelessly obliged. Nobody has quite as much power as the martyr.

It shows how much power this powerless sign can wield. For passivity is a dangerous animal, since the will has to go someplace. An every so often you see it break out.

The Pisces is all of us, that's why he's so often the victim. It's exaggerated but it's there. Watch the pattern of a Pisces life, and you will see the reflection of many man's distorted, exaggerated, but a true mirror. It's said that Pisceans make wonderful healers, priest, physicians, counsellor's. This is undoubtedly true, for they have the innate compassion wisdom and insight. They can also heal because they have been wounded, and because there isn't much in nature that they haven't already glimpsed in themselves.

But too passive a Pisces is a dangerous creature. The dark fish is bound to break sooner or later, either in genuine psychosis, or in self - destruction whether the quick or slow kind like drug addiction or alcoholism - or in the subtle destruction of another. Unless the Pisces has a more aggressive ascendant like Aries or Leo, or a strong Mars, it's all under the surface, for Pisces is a genius at undercurrents.

Pisces is sometimes called the sign of self undoing. And it is important to remember that it's truly self undoing with Pisces, never the undoing of others. Pisces has such a wealth of talent and vision that he is one of the most blessed of man. Yet so often his life is a failure. And it is because of his shadow.

It was a very interesting take on the Pisces sign and very true for me. The thing is the very things I hated about my mother (I Love my mum) was her acting the victim making others feel guilty for her unhappiness. But she is acting out the projection of myself.

How I experienced my mother is the reflection of my inner self. Sometimes I don't realize I am acting the victim because it is so ingrained inside me I just don't recognize it. Other times when I want people to do something for me I consciously act out my weaker side. I am now coming to an age were I want to stop this behavior I don't want to make my partner or child feel guilty. It is not fair.

Oh well I don't know hey, you grow up and realize you are just like your parents.

[lilllybelle]

I wonder what would be soul reason for this behavior in pisces? Such as geminis are said to have a case of expertness or know-it-allness because they were terribly rigid, stubborn and close minded in past lives ( which believe it or not, might of actually been very positive and benificial for them in that life). So I wonder what prompts pisces to potentially place guilt on others. There has to be a karmic reason for it.

[wintersprite1]

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

I don't do it on purpose but I do need to face this shadow side of myself more.

Oooh, Shadow work is so much fun!! There is so much more than just the Sun signs.... Try Googling: Jung Astrology and then look up: Richard Idemon.

It will keep you busy, but you won't be bored. It takes Astrology to a whole new level.

TK

[jagetoile]

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[jagetoile]

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[moving towards hermes]

Hello, this is my first post...

I think, the signifier of the shadow depends on the chart. Initially as one begins to do his or her inner work "the shadow" may refer to all those things one is unconscious about, and later this becomes refined.
Speaking as one with many planets in the personal quadrant of the natal chart, I once thought the shadow was represented by the 7th or 12th house cusp -- but have seen it pop out in the antiscion of my own midheaven! Now that isn't always true -- sometimes I am more and less conscious of those qualities. Anyway it can vary depending on where a person is at present.. People develop and grow.

[Neptune Rising]

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

My mother always used to act victimised a lot of the time. If she was upset by something she would say things like "everything I do for you, and all I ask is for you to do one thing, and I get face pulled at me." or "I am not well, and you are not helping me.

This reminds me of something I read somewhere about how your moon somehow reflects how you see your mother. I too have moon in Pisces, and my mum is a Pisces Sun. After my parents divorced when I was about 6, my mum became depressed for quite a few years. And the guilt thing was definately there, took me ages to shake that off and unlearn what I learned - that I could do very little right. Not her fault though, thats just the way things were and both our evolutionary paths at the time. I also went through a stage of making people around me feel guilty, I don't do it so much now I'm consciously aware of it.

I guess to get to the light side you have to go through the shadow, and incorporate both shadow and light, both sides of the same coin to make a whole.

Neptune

[jagetoile]

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[moving towards hermes]

Jagetoile, gosh - i don't know! Seems like it would be hard to say as the shadow can encompass so much. But I am equally a novice in astrology and Jungian psychology.

[AquarianEssence]

In ordinary situations, Pisces tends to be the victim.

I have to disagree. I would say the ordinary or normal Pisces gives herself in selfless service to humanity for the most worthy of causes. There is then, no need to be a victim because one is serving self when serving others, as we are all one.

The places I would look for the unconscious are the 12th house, the Moon who's light is shadowy and where unconscious memory is stored, the 4th house and most importantly Lilith, BML, the place where the Moon is furthest away. Perhaps the Sun could shed light also since that is the source of all shadows on earth and provides the light that the Moon reflects. I think I'd add the antiscia also since that is the perfect mirror.

I think a healthy dose of Virgo working with Scorpio prohibits too much from remaining hidden. Virgo tends to dissect, analyse and assimilate everything in sight and Scorpio wants to dig deep to uproot everything for transformation.

[jagetoile]

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[Shining Ray]

Hi Jag,

I do recognize my shadow side. I am aware it, I don't see myself as playing the victim as much as my mother did, but then again maybe it is still a side of myself I don't want to see. (but lately with my progressed Moon in Aries I have been very assertive with people, probably because I get angrier more easily lately. I have had major problems defending my self in life, but I quite like having my progressed Moon in Aries, I am feeling a lot tougher at the moment .

Pisces is not a weak sign by a long shot. As much as Pisceans can be compassionate and kind they can also be deceptive, and play on other people. Every sign as a light and dark side. I tend to fall somewhere in the middle. As I am learning to be more and more aware of myself, I can express myself better and make different choices in how I react. But like you I don't see the shadow side as wholly "bad" the two sides light and dark need to be integrated in to the personality. Deny your darker side and it will just be projected back to you from somewhere else. But with projection you can't always blame every single thing in life on projection. I wouldn't like to say that people who got murdered or raped and beaten had their dark side projected back to them because some victims are only children.

With Murderers, rapists and evil people in general where did there light side go why does their darker shadow take over the personality completely. Are people born evil or is it their childhood experiences to blame. I have been reading Liz Greenes Dark of the Soul, but up to now I haven't found it helpful in really being able to distinguish just by looking at a chart who is more prone to living out their darker side. Dr Phil's chart for example has loads of Pluto/8th house aspects yet he lives out his Pluto nature through helping other's psychologically with issues of abuse, drugs, obsessions. I believe the soul guides the chart, maybe a soul who is less evolved than Dr Phil with his chart would act out the darker plutonian side for the worse. There are times I act out the best in my chart and there have been plenty of times I have acted out the worse possible expression of my chart.

I have been looking at murderers charts one's with birth times and charts that don't have birth times and yes there are hard difficult aspects like we all have in our charts. A Killer's chart I was looking at last night who killed prostitutes he had Venus in Aquarius in an applying square to Mars in Taurus, Venus and mars in hard aspect to Uranus (it was a T.Square). The South Node is in Aries the ruler Mars was at the apex of the t.square. But what I am trying to say is how many people have these difficult aspects and will astrology ever be able to tell these darker personalities from looking at the chart. I am beginning to think it is not possible. Astrology is an excellent psychological tool but I don't think it is deterministic, although to contradict myself I do believe certain things in life are fated. But anyway in the killer's case he had a bad childhood, did this make the difference or was he a dark soul to begin with.

But then how can any of us be too judgemental, in a past life when our soul was a less evolved who knows what type of crimes we comitted or evil acts we may have done. In my composite book it tells you how to read the chart from a past life perspective but you have to read your south node from a darker perspective to get an idea on what you may have been like in a past life. Here is a quick quote from the book.

The key point is that squares to the South Node often correlate with vextatious situations in which our own blindness and error plays a large role. Blindness and error are part of life, and we all sucumb to them. And always remember one of the cardianl insights into evolutionary astrology. You were even dumber in the past! These lapses should not be greeted with guilt or shame, only with the recognition that we are wounded, we run the risk of repeating old patterns, and that now there are better choices.

It is a tough subject talking about the shadow side, with projection denial, avoidance. Half the time I don't know what I am projecting. Like when I was in an abusive relationship all the anger and abuse that was directed towards me is this my karma, was I abusive in a past life. Is it my projected anger, I project because I have difficulty expressing anger and did I use my partner as a release for me. This is why it is so complicated. I do beleive though that nothing happens in life unless it shows the potential in the birth chart good or bad.

[jagetoile]

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[Shining Ray]

Hi Jag,

Yes you gain a lot of information from charts, I agree that to be able to read the chart better you need a little information from the person about their background. So you can try and judge what soul level they are at. I have been reading a lot of evololutionary books lately. And for example I have Pluto in the 2nd house but I don't see myself as materialistic as my sister who has a 2nd house Pluto even though we were brought up the same she has always been more materialistic than I have been. When I was younger I did want to marry someone rich who would take care of me, but now I am older I have gained more awareness, and I realize through Astrology I need to be more self sufficient. Or use my skills and talents (Pluto 2nd) to help others. But what I am getting at is how do you really know how Pluto in 2nd house is operating for the individual. Most of us who are on this forum do have a more growth orientated outlook and a lot of us are spiritual, so the way we use our energies is a lot more different than the way a thug or gangster who has a material selfish attitude would use the same planetary energy. One person could be ruthless in attaining money with a 2nd house Pluto while another is digging deep into their resources and skills and generating money to help people. Without knowing some details it is hard to judge the natal chart - But the general themes and life path and emotional state, thinking patterns and love life are represented in the Astrological chart.

[jagetoile]

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[Shining Ray]

Hi Jag,

The houses in Astrology do cover a lot, the 2nd house alone covers as you have said money, self worth, our values, skills, talents, security, what we collect and own. I like your description of the 2nd house meaning - what we gain, which in my case is power to be self-sustaining and yes relentless in changing my value system. Money is just one aspect of the 2nd house.

Astrologically looking for our shadow side or unconscious side, I have read that any planet in the 4th house shows the subconscious urge behind all action, the Moon natural ruler of the 4th also gives a clue to our natural instincts.

[jagetoile]

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[AquarianEssence]

Originally Posted by jagetoile

...you spoke of anticia, this is the first time that i've learned the "unconscious" side of anticia. it seems to me that anticion, to some extent, resembles the "declinaition---parallel, contra parallel", do you think the "parallel/contra parallel" as conscious/unconscious as well?

Perhaps, I hadn't thought about that possiblilty. There are many things we do unconsciously and combining two bodies either through parallel or antiscia is sort of like blood pressure rising without any conscious thought or effort on our part or like our bodies repairing the days damage while we sleep. Both parallel and antiscia are not physical bodies, so they are more an instinctive or unconscious invisible influence until we notice them. My husband and I share Sun antiscia and there is no better person for the other to expose what is done without thought, especially with regards to ego or any Sun connection. I should have had opportunity to experience thoroughly, contra-antiscia Sun with my 4th baby but as soon as he officially moved into the adult world he cut himself out of my life, very much like the negative manifistation of an opposition. So now my baby is in the shadows of our past, for now at least.

it's very contradictory experience when i posed the same questions in other forums. some say that the 4th is unconscious, others say that we are conscious of the angular houses. i don't know which to follow.

I say that because the Moon, I believe, is responsible for stored memory of all history, even before birth. She and Cancer is responsible for the emotional reaction that we don't understand, because it's connected to an experience we have pushed back into the subconscious which I don't really se as being different from the unconscious. Everything we instinctively do is connected to Moon. She really has no light of her own, she takes what is given to her, right or wrong, and stores it. An example of this would be an irrational fear of heights stemming from a long forgotten, dismembered, memory of falling from high places or even high status. Once we can become conscious of its origin we can remember and heal it. The 4th is where we deal with unconditional love and the dark night of the soul if that love has been distorted or withheld.

I think our shadow is our fears. Our fears are forgotten love that has become distorted and turned in on itself, kind of like rheumatoid arthritis where the body attacks itself. Once we face them we can see what they once were and let love back into its rightful place.

then there is the point of aspects. it is well know that in "opposition" aspect, the party undesirable we "project" to other people---unconsciously. then what about other conlictual aspects?

and the 1st/7th house, don't we project the 7th?

The opposition is only like this when we fail to see ourselves in the other and that we are one. The intention of the opposition is to blend and compromise, to create synergy not to oppose or project. If we can begin to see each of the 6 axis as partnerships rather than opposing forces I think the idea of evil will dissapear. My ID here is my business name and my descendant sign. I was given that name, I think, because we are entering that age, but I was also aware that it was my descendant sign. I am wearing the compliment to my Leo ascendant which I hold proudly . And, I would love it if I could build something that I can pass on to my descendants.

The antiscia of the Fixed degrees are square by sign. We can't posess what we love, love can't die, we can't be detached with sex and remain healthy and its pretty hard to invent our value because it will soon be exposed. When we deny these things they are in the shadows waiting to be seen. Anything that is unconscious and projected is the shadow. Perhaps I should have said the antiscia are where we can most easily shed light into the shadows.

[Shining Ray]

I think the 12th house might reflect the shadow, as it is right behind the Ascendant. Some people turn the chart so the 12th house is on the 1st for a past life astrology reading. But not sure how it works or if it is accurate.

[jagetoile]

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[AquarianEssence]

I agree Jag, we think a lot alike. The only difference here is that I don't look at compromise as not fully fullfilling either side. I think its more like taking turns or having some areas for one side and others for the other side. For example, 2 people have different things they like to do, but some that they both like. The compromise is allowing time to do things separately and together so all the needs are met. Libra gets out of balance if she always seeks to please the other, Aries when he only wants to do what he likes rather than allowing the other some space to be different.

The squares are a little more challenging because they don't have the common ground, they require a bit of creativity or just the right blending for harmony. Fire and water don't mix but using the fire in the right way to warm the water can be quite nice, or a steam bath.

I like your statement, "the hidden source of our fears" being the shadow. Well said.

[moving towards hermes]

oh, let's not equate shadows with fears alone... that is not a very helpful habit... shadows are not all negative. Often very 'positive' things may be hidden or not at the surface. Things are not bad just because they are dark... and humans have also demonstrated an incapacity to respect all those things of which we are conscious... we like to meddle.
the antiscia are just another facet of the narrative..

[AquarianEssence]

Agreed. All new discovery and invention is waiting for us in the shadows.

[moving towards hermes]

This thread http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ead.php?t=4707 was a nice reminder of the fact that there are personal shadows and collective shadows as well. What do you think of the assertion that the 4th house reflects the collective unconscious and the 12th, the universal consciousness?

[Soul Friend]

Originally Posted by AquarianEssence

The places I would look for the unconscious are the 12th house, the Moon who's light is shadowy and where unconscious memory is stored, the 4th house and most importantly Lilith, BML, the place where the Moon is furthest away. Perhaps the Sun could shed light also since that is the source of all shadows on earth and provides the light that the Moon reflects. I think I'd add the antiscia also since that is the perfect mirror.

I absolutely would have to agree with these areas of the 12thH, Moon, 4thH and Lilith or BML. I was prepared to say highlight these exact areas if not mentioned.

BTW, Welcome Moving Towards Hermes!