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  #1  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:14 PM
Manitou Manitou is offline
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Why do I have speaking problems?

Ever since I was a little kid, I've always had speaking problems. I'm NOT good at talking at all. There had been sooooo many times in my life where I had to repeat myself because people can't understand me! When I try to tell a story or explain what happened in a movie, I could never seem to get my point across or explain it clearly as I'm always at a loss for words and am unable to verbally articulate my thoughts. When people are talking to me and I have to repeat back what they said, I can't seem to remember half of what they said as I forgot most of it. Even when I TRY to listen closely to what they're saying, I still forget! I also have "foggy" thinking, like I can't remember what I had to do when the teacher just told me the instructions five minutes ago. So basically, I have very bad short-term memory. Although, the ironic thing is that I have NO problems expressing my thoughts into written text at all, which I am doing right now. I only seem to have difficulties with verbal communication. Teachers at school and close relatives suspected that I have autism, but I was recently examined by a doctor and he said that I was normal.

So, is there anything in my chart that indicates I have speaking and memorizing problems? All I know is that I have Mercury in Cancer ... and it's opposed to Neptune and Uranus, although the orb is a little wide, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But it's most likely the culprit, though. Mercury is also my chart ruler, so that planet should be prominent in my chart.

danny.jpg

Not that it really matters, but my mom said that I didn't speak until I was 4 or 5 years old. I'm also a very quiet guy ... despite the fact that I'm a fiery Leo and Leos are supposed to be loud and out-going.


Last edited by Manitou; 01-11-2012 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:59 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
Ever since I was a little kid, I've always had speaking problems. I'm NOT good at talking at all. There had been sooooo many times in my life where I had to repeat myself because people can't understand me! When I try to tell a story or explain what happened in a movie, I could never seem to get my point across or explain it clearly as I'm always at a loss for words and am unable to verbally articulate my thoughts. When people are talking to me and I have to repeat back what they said, I can't seem to remember half of what they said as I forgot most of it. Even when I TRY to listen closely to what they're saying, I still forget! I also have "foggy" thinking, like I can't remember what I had to do when the teacher just told me the instructions five minutes ago. So basically, I have very bad short-term memory. Although, the ironic thing is that I have NO problems expressing my thoughts into written text at all, which I am doing right now. I only seem to have difficulties with verbal communication. Teachers at school and close relatives suspected that I have autism, but I was recently examined by a doctor and he said that I was normal.

So, is there anything in my chart that indicates I have speaking and memorizing problems? All I know is that I have Mercury in Cancer ... and it's opposed to Neptune and Uranus, although the orb is a little wide, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But it's most likely the culprit, though. Mercury is also my chart ruler, so that planet should be prominent in my chart.

Attachment 25861

Not that it really matters, but my mom said that I didn't speak until I was 4 or 5 years old. I'm also a very quiet guy ... despite the fact that I'm a fiery Leo and Leos are supposed to be loud and out-going.
It never fails! I see this all of the time in the charts of people with speaking difficulties- MERCURY SQUARE MOON.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:00 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Hi Manitou

---It seems to me that the yod with Saturn-Mercury-Mars is involved in the matter.
Saturn is a sense of restriction or block on mercury (11th social) and mars (1st H appearance) in your natural outgoing communicative energy.

The yod is sometimes a frustrating pattern the causes a lot of confusion and a problem that is there in one's experience. But it can also give some breakthroughs at times in life.

---Also 6th house saturn is squaring Pluto in communication 3rd house.

The trine from pluto to mercury give chance of working with the matter therapeutically to loose the knots.

Best wishes
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:11 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

It seems like you have had the long transit of Neptune on the apex saturn of the yod in recent years which have probably made the issue more complex and confusing for you.
This transit is leaving you now. And it will be easier probably.

But also now transit Saturn is squaring your mercury in 11th house which can be experienced as restrictive energies in communication with friends and allies.

Perhaps not the best time for much light superficial social interaction anyway.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:24 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Hi Manitou. I think the essence of Leo is not showy at all. For me Leo is more about the connection with the core Self from which the ego draws its creative power, and towards which it must journey if the individual is to have a sense of fulfilling their unique purpose in life. This can be a very introverted journey. Often I think the most showy Leos are deeply insecure about this all-important connection to the core Self, resulting in the need for their creative output to be acknowledged and applauded by others. You may have a yearning for recognition, on some level, too.

Since you sturggle more in the physical presence of others, and since you have Mars/Aries energy strong across your horizon axis (both ends of which deal with how we relate to others), I wonder if you experience anxiety around people due to the Mars rising and Moon in Aries in the 7th? This could distract you from engaging with them, and perhaps cause you to retreat into a safe place inside.

What messages did you get about the expression of (healthy and unhealthy) aggression when you were a child? This could help you to see if this speculation is true for you.

A Sun Moon trine can generate a kind of inertia in some people that makes them feel less inclined to try to grapple with more difficult parts of themselves. Even though you have this trine in fire, it is still possible that you need to work on expressing your fiery energy into the world (as your comment about not being what you see as a typical, extroverted Leo also suggests). You may be more inclined to live out your fire on the inner level through fantasy and creative thought (air houses) which obviously there's nothing wrong with. But if its affecting your ability to engage with the world around you then obviously its worth looking at. I would look at Mars in Virgo and see which expressions of that placement you are able to easily express and which you're not. I'd also look at how you experience Mars/Aries energy in yourself and in others. Do you know what you want? Do you go after it? How do defend/avenge yourself? How do you feel around other people's competitiveness and aggression? And how are your earthy organising abilities - is your Virgo ascendant just experienced as the obstacles of mundane existence, or do you resonate with the rhythms of everyday life, feeling at home in the physical world? Looking at Virgo/6th house issues could be especially useful to you on account of the close yod involving Mars in Virgo, Mercury and Saturn in the 6th house.

I haven't mentioned the Mercury/Neptune stuff here as I talked about it in the other thread. Obviously this is also relevant to concentration. Mercury and Moon are similarly involved with Moon and Mercury, which could also disrupt concentration. (For people who didn't see the other thread, I speculated that the not especially close hard aspects from Neptune to Moon and Mercury would be pulled together by Neptune contacting the Moon/Mercury midpoint. Uranus does the same).
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:31 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Yes I missed something really big there Shanti. Especially since Pluto in the 3rd also rules the 3rd and makes a T-square with Saturn and Chiron. The Saturn Chiron opposition is close enough for the two planets to be contacting the same midpoints, so it might be worth looking at that too, Mantou. Reading up about Chiron in the 12th could also be useful.

Pluto in the 3rd sometimes reflects feelings of being overpowered in, or by, communication. Did you have any siblings? Was anyone harshly critical of you? How was the communication generally in your early environment?
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:33 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Hi Manitou, I posted a similar request about my son who has a speech problem and like yourself will be a late talker. Funny enough my son and I have yods in our charts too!

I can't offer much advice astrologically but a couple things come to mind because this is an area I struggle with too.
Perhaps look up Auditory processing disorder and see if the description matches your symptoms. People with APD have problems with verbal instructions, hearing and understanding what is being said. Writing instructions out helps alot, because its not the memory that is the problem but the way the brain processes the information.

Also background noise makes understanding speech more difficult.
You might find that you understand a story fine in your head but to retell the story is difficult, I think this to do with thought sequencing. Have a look anyway,

Also diet could be a factor, my speech suffers when I eat the wrong things, preservatives make my mind fuzzy, salicylates causes my speech to stumble and caffeine affects the mouth muscles.
So for that reason I follow a natural diet that's low in salicylates. It's helped me alot.

I must say at least you are talented with the written word, that must be good for your confidence. The way you write is very clear and expressive!

Last edited by Too much Aquarius; 01-11-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:09 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Interesting! I am similarly afflicted. I always attributed it to having Neptune in the 3rd conjunct my moon in Sagittarius. I always get excited and have too many things to say when I speak. It ends up with me trying to order my words as they are coming out and so it take two or three tries to say what I am trying to say. Succinct is something that I have a problem with. I'm terrible on the radios at work and worse if I need to get on a mic and make announcements.
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:20 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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Originally Posted by Too much Aquarius View Post
Hi Manitou, I posted a similar request about my son who has a speech problem and like yourself will be a late talker. Funny enough my son and I have yods in our charts too!

I can't offer much advice astrologically but a couple things come to mind because this is an area I struggle with too.
Perhaps look up Auditory processing disorder and see if the description matches your symptoms. People with APD have problems with verbal instructions, hearing and understanding what is being said. Writing instructions out helps alot, because its not the memory that is the problem but the way the brain processes the information.

Also background noise makes understanding speech more difficult.
You might find that you understand a story fine in your head but to retell the story is difficult, I think this to do with thought sequencing. Have a look anyway,

Also diet could be a factor, my speech suffers when I eat the wrong things, preservatives make my mind fuzzy, salicylates causes my speech to stumble and caffeine affects the mouth muscles.
So for that reason I follow a natural diet that's low in salicylates. It's helped me alot.

I must say at least you are talented with the written word, that must be good for your confidence. The way you write is very clear and expressive!
Just did a little reading on APD and that sound exactly like what I've dealt with my entire life. That in conjunction with discalculia. I've never been diagnosed but both disorders seem very familiar to me. I constantly hear people incorrectly (much to my amusement more often than not) and have a hard time understanding what is being asked of me unless I can write it down and then re-read it. I spend a great deal of time replaying the sounds of words in my mind until the word represented by those sounds becomes clear to me. I hope that makes sense. I used to beat myself up over it and think I was stupid, but I finally just decided it's one of those silly things that makes me me and I'm okay with it.
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:21 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Hello.
From what I saw in your chart, you should be very communicative, and be able to transmit your ideas in a clear way. Look at this:

-Mercury in cancer (poetic language) in the 11th house (accidental exaltation);
-Mercury sextilling mars with reception to virgo;
-Vigo asc;
-Mars is the ruler of 3rd house and it is in the 1st (that can make a very chatty person);
-The ruler of 3rd (pluto) in the 3rd (house of communication).

BUT if we look with attention, besides your mercury opposition neptune (which creates a lot of things you describe) i noticed the following, that can make some difficulties in the communication:
-the ruler of 3rd (pluto) squares sun (the ruler of 12th) - again increases the negative traits of a neptunian mind (your mercury-neptune opp is very wide, besides);
-Pluto (all or nothing attitude) challenged in the the 3rd house;
-Pluto in 3rd squares saturn witch is the lord of your 6th hosue (a house ruled by saturn) AND saturn in 6th house.

Cheer up, your chart has signs of a great speaker deep inside,
Fragoso
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
Ever since I was a little kid, I've always had speaking problems. I'm NOT good at talking at all. There had been sooooo many times in my life where I had to repeat myself because people can't understand me! When I try to tell a story or explain what happened in a movie, I could never seem to get my point across or explain it clearly as I'm always at a loss for words and am unable to verbally articulate my thoughts[/COLOR]. When people are talking to me and I have to repeat back what they said,[COLOR="YellowGreen"] I can't seem to remember half of what they said as I forgot most of it. Even when I TRY to listen closely to what they're saying, I still forget! I also have "foggy" thinking, like I can't remember what I had to do when the teacher just told me the instructions five minutes ago. So basically, I have very bad short-term memory. Although, the ironic thing is that I have NO problems expressing my thoughts into written text at all, which I am doing right now. I only seem to have difficulties with verbal communication. Teachers at school and close relatives suspected that I have autism, but I was recently examined by a doctor and he said that I was normal.
Seems so mutch mercury-neptune opposition!
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:55 PM
Manitou Manitou is offline
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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Originally Posted by Fragoso View Post
Hello.
From what I saw in your chart, you should be very communicative, and be able to transmit your ideas in a clear way. Look at this:

-Mercury in cancer (poetic language) in the 11th house (accidental exaltation);
-Mercury sextilling mars with reception to virgo;
-Vigo asc;
-Mars is the ruler of 3rd house and it is in the 1st (that can make a very chatty person);
-The ruler of 3rd (pluto) in the 3rd (house of communication).

BUT if we look with attention, besides your mercury opposition neptune (which creates a lot of things you describe) i noticed the following, that can make some difficulties in the communication:
-the ruler of 3rd (pluto) squares sun (the ruler of 12th) - again increases the negative traits of a neptunian mind (your mercury-neptune opp is very wide, besides);
-Pluto (all or nothing attitude) challenged in the the 3rd house;
-Pluto in 3rd squares saturn witch is the lord of your 6th hosue (a house ruled by saturn) AND saturn in 6th house.

Cheer up, your chart has signs of a great speaker deep inside,
Fragoso
That's funny, because when I was around 7 or 8, I was an EXTREMELY talkative guy. Like it was very easy for me to open up to random strangers and I would tell them everything!

But as I grew older, I've gotten more quiet for some reason ...
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:00 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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Yes I missed something really big there Shanti. Especially since Pluto in the 3rd also rules the 3rd and makes a T-square with Saturn and Chiron. The Saturn Chiron opposition is close enough for the two planets to be contacting the same midpoints, so it might be worth looking at that too, Mantou. Reading up about Chiron in the 12th could also be useful.

Pluto in the 3rd sometimes reflects feelings of being overpowered in, or by, communication. Did you have any siblings? Was anyone harshly critical of you? How was the communication generally in your early environment?
Hi Miquar,

Yeah I have siblings ... 3 older sisters. I'm the only boy in the family and the youngest. I dunno about critical, but sometimes my sisters would say something to me that makes me feel bad.

Like there were so many times where they told me I was lazy and dumb, have bad hygiene, why don't I have many friends, or why am I not normal compared to typical teenagers, etc.

My mom says a bunch of critical things to me too. Way worse than my sisters, but I don't want to go into too much detail ...
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:03 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Cancer

Traditional Definitions:


Fruitful: Unless afflicted, Cancer shows a propensity for children or easy pregnancy.
Mute or slow of voice:
Cancer is not known for verbal dexterity
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:04 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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It never fails! I see this all of the time in the charts of people with speaking difficulties- MERCURY SQUARE MOON.
But the orbs are wayyyy too wide to be considered a square.

They may be squared by sign, but not by degrees ...
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:05 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Well, I have Mercury opposite the Moon, and I have no speaking problems, I just don't talk very much (contrary to my prior belief.) I think it your problems just have to do with Mercury in Cancer, which is no big deal considering a lot of the population has Mercury in a "mute" sign.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:50 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

There are 'two realities' - - - -
1 - status quo socio-cultural 'reality' wherein we all have similar abilities (i.e. , speaking and fluid conversation) and
2 - the silence of the 'zen master' . . . . . to avoid the labyrinth of words .

Flow with who you are . . . (opinion) . . . . and allow for 'inner revelations' . . . . speaking 'from the heart' is also quite effective . . . .

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Old 01-14-2012, 11:27 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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There are 'two realities' - - - -
1 - status quo socio-cultural 'reality' wherein we all have similar abilities (i.e. , speaking and fluid conversation) and
2 - the silence of the 'zen master' . . . . . to avoid the labyrinth of words .

Flow with who you are . . . (opinion) . . . . and allow for 'inner revelations' . . . . speaking 'from the heart' is also quite effective . . . .

Ion
Uhhhh ... I don't get what you're trying to say?
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:51 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

..........
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:41 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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Well, I have Mercury opposite the Moon, and I have no speaking problems, I just don't talk very much (contrary to my prior belief.) I think it your problems just have to do with Mercury in Cancer, which is no big deal considering a lot of the population has Mercury in a "mute" sign.
But I know A LOT of people with Mercury in a Water sign, and they don't have communication problems like me at all. My mom has Mercury in Pisces and boooooy could she talk and talk and talk. Her speech is also very dramatic, clear, and to-the-point.

But then again, her Mars tightly trines her Mercury, so I think that may be the case. She's also an Aries Sun and Leo Moon which may be why she's so direct with the way she talks.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:47 AM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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It seems like you have had the long transit of Neptune on the apex saturn of the yod in recent years which have probably made the issue more complex and confusing for you.
This transit is leaving you now. And it will be easier probably.

But also now transit Saturn is squaring your mercury in 11th house which can be experienced as restrictive energies in communication with friends and allies.

Perhaps not the best time for much light superficial social interaction anyway.
Really?! Wow ... no wonder I've been noticing it's a bit harder than usual to contact the people I need the most. There has also been a lot of communication problems happening between me and my teachers. One example is the time when my teachers thought I was skipping class (I told them I was going to the bathroom), but I guess they misunderstood me and thought I was skipping. They were looking all over for me around the school. Then when I got back. they asked me where I was, and I said I was in the bathroom. But they wouldn't believe me, so they sent me to the principal's office to have a talk with the principal and they were gonna suspend me for skipping class. But then I have a classmate who was also in the bathroom and he was the only one who witnessed that I really did went to the bathroom. So he told the principal about it and they finally believe me. So if it wasn't for him then I would've got suspended from school. I had many other communication problems that happened just recently too, but again, I don't want to go into too much details.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:28 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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Hi Miquar,

Yeah I have siblings ... 3 older sisters. I'm the only boy in the family and the youngest. I dunno about critical, but sometimes my sisters would say something to me that makes me feel bad.

Like there were so many times where they told me I was lazy and dumb, have bad hygiene, why don't I have many friends, or why am I not normal compared to typical teenagers, etc.

My mom says a bunch of critical things to me too. Way worse than my sisters, but I don't want to go into too much detail ...
Yes that does sound like a typical experience of someone with Pluto in the 3rd, and this could have left you feeling uneasy about communication. Your Moon in Aries suggests that your mother felt confined by the sacrifices demanded by motherhood, and so this may have caused her to experience some resentment about that role.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:42 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

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That's funny, because when I was around 7 or 8, I was an EXTREMELY talkative guy. Like it was very easy for me to open up to random strangers and I would tell them everything!

But as I grew older, I've gotten more quiet for some reason ...
When you were about seven and a half your progressed Sun would have squared that 3rd house Pluto, perhaps igniting your passion for communicating. And Pluto can be about the unknown so that fits with strangers. Of course there would have been other progressions and transits at that time too that couls be relevant. Perhaps as the progressed Sun moved on to the Saturn Chiron opposition at around ten years old, you might have felt more inhibited about expressing yourself and some of that could have stayed with you.

But something else that occurs to me is that you have Sun and Moon in expressive fire houses and in sociable air houses, suggesting that your natural inclination is to be like you were at 7 or 8. You might want to reflect on the experiences that have changed your inclinations since that time. Perhaps adolescence left some scars. It can be that the difficult aspects in a chart are silent for the first part of life and then some difficult experience awakens them, or causes them to be felt with a new and challenging immediacy. Perhaps this could be said about your Sun Pluto square, in spite of what I also said about the progression of Sun to exact square to Pluto.

Was your mother always critical of you, or were you the protected baby for a time, before something shifted in the dynamic between you (perhaps connected to your older sisters finding lives of their own and your mother being jealous, or her seeing you differently as you approached adolescence and weren't her little boy any more). Adolescence is a very awkward time and it wouldn't have helped your new identity to emerge in a healthy way if your mother and sisters were saying belittling things to you.

Perhaps its a case of reclaiming your 3rd house Plutonian power so that you can shed the inhibiting skin that grew on you during this time???
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:50 PM
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Re: Why do I have speaking problems?

Your Moon makes some aspects that I have tentatively associated with autism or mildly autistic traits. I am not an expert, that is just an observation I have made out of the corner of my eye, and I could, easily, be wrong. I wish I could avoid using the term "autism" because it is loaded with assumptions about total inability to relate to the world, whereas it is a spectrum extending to a lot of people who seem completely normal and struggle with various forms of communication and meaning.

Autism seems to be about the Moon, a very common pattern in autistic charts is to see the Moon caught up in a tight hard aspect with that generational Chiron/Uranus opposition. But it can get caught up in other duality patterns too.

Your Solar Arc progressed descendant is conjunct your natal seventh house Moon at roughly age 19. Solar Arcs are the chart angles moved one degree for every year of life, backwards or forwards, and tend to begin their influence at one degree applying, and after that are triggered by a transit.

Last edited by silverfish; 01-16-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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