What are Femme Fatale significators in the chart?

[MaeMae]

Would you think of Arnold Schwarzenegger's mistress/baby mama, a FF?

[hvnlystarz]

interesting discussion! i guess our personal definitions of a femme fatal are key in figuring out natal signatures.

for me it's kind of a like a dangerous driver. there are the ones who are living in a bubble, not paying attention, kinda ditzy, etc... and as such they are dangerous. then there are the ones that are actually out there with road rage looking to run people off the road. both drivers are dangerous- but one has malice and evil intent. to me that is a femme fatal- someone who has the intent to seduce, manipulate and harm. otherwise we could sit here and blame all the people who were attractive/charming, whom we willingly let seduce us. anyone with Goddess energy could be seen as a femme fatal- which to me doesn't feel right

just my thoughts- love hearing everyone else's though!

~h

[Neptune Rising]

Christine Keeler may be a considered a femme fatale. In her youth, she did have a very alluring appeal. In her chart, Lilith is conjunct the ascendant, but its also trine to her MC Venus. Lilith is also sextile her Pluto (which oposes her Venus). Her brief sexual aquaintance with John Profumo cause a scandal in the UK when it came out. The scandal also brought down the conservative government of which Profumo was minister for war at the time.

Her Lilith in Gemini in ascendant very nicely describes the nature of the scandal and how it was communicated, through the newspapers (Gemini and Lilith (secrects). It was made very public in Keeler's life (trine Venus/MC) through her romantic and sexual involvement (Venus/Pluto).

Her chart

wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Keeler

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by Love2Know

Venus square saturn, venus opposition saturn..... I have read it adds beauty especially as the native grows older. Of course, beauty is subjective yet a certain charm in any case. Through their own suffering they become the 'player', femme fatale...... example male.... Frank Sinatra etc.

Venus square Saturn is a hard one to deal with and it often involves finances and material assets too.. It certainly doesnt indicate more attractive as one ages thing. THat belongs to the planet of youth Mercury and perhaps the Sun....

It can mean feeling used by a beauty for material gain and status which is what Frank Sinatra may have felt...or having to offer that to win the beauty he wanted...Saturn doesnt indicate a player but other aspects may. Men who have fame and fortune are nearly always players anyway.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by Neptune Rising

Christine Keeler may be a considered a femme fatale. In her youth, she did have a very alluring appeal. In her chart, Lilith is conjunct the ascendant, but its also trine to her MC Venus. Lilith is also sextile her Pluto (which oposes her Venus). Her brief sexual aquaintance with John Profumo cause a scandal in the UK when it came out. The scandal also brought down the conservative government of which Profumo was minister for war at the time.

Her Lilith in Gemini in ascendant very nicely describes the nature of the scandal and how it was communicated, through the newspapers (Gemini and Lilith (secrects). It was made very public in Keeler's life (trine Venus/MC) through her romantic and sexual involvement (Venus/Pluto).

Her chart

wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Keeler

SHe was just like many other young woman, nothing so special in looks or appeal, but happy to trade her favours with the rich and powerful.. Was she not just a hooker???. Mandy Rice Davies was probably the more appealing to most men....

[sequestra]

Would Jane Russell be considered one? And I know Marilyn Monroe exuded a sort of innocent/childlike vulnerability perhaps not classically associated with the "fatale", but gosh she would have been hard to resist <3 (and so I agree with what Maemae was saying with regard to that Neptunian influence).

[Love2Know]

Originally Posted by Claire19

Venus square Saturn is a hard one to deal with and it often involves finances and material assets too.. It certainly doesnt indicate more attractive as one ages thing. THat belongs to the planet of youth Mercury and perhaps the Sun....

It can mean feeling used by a beauty for material gain and status which is what Frank Sinatra may have felt...or having to offer that to win the beauty he wanted...Saturn doesnt indicate a player but other aspects may. Men who have fame and fortune are nearly always players anyway.

I understand what you mean but my logic was, these femme fatal qualities generall arise through pain..... so saturn would come into play. When I was hurt by a guy I dated a lot without the regard for some feelings of men I probably should have been nicer to... I was hurt though.. a great feeling of abandonment or mistrust can be found within the past of most 'deadly charmers' of course nothing alone explains anything. Yeah for the saturn square venus adding beauty to aging I just read that on an astrology blog so I dunno lol

I think Robyn explains it pretty well in her song, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv644ipg2Ss a lot of cold hearted men and women I have met who have the 'player' 'femme fatal' thing going on.. it commonly starts from a source of pain like this or parent issues....

[Neptune Rising]

Originally Posted by Claire19

SHe was just like many other young woman, nothing so special in looks or appeal, but happy to trade her favours with the rich and powerful.. Was she not just a hooker???. Mandy Rice Davies was probably the more appealing to most men....

Depends on the man, I guess. Its more of what she caused than what she did that I was looking at. The femme fatale aspect of her Lilith rising, as well as the aspects it made to her natal chart (linked to in the previous post), made her a femme fatale to the Minister for War in the 1960, at the height of the Cold War. She was also linked to a Russian spy. Prior to meeting them, she was a topless dancer and a model. It is said she had an affair with Profumo. Whether she was a hooker, it is debatable.

Stephen Ward introduced her to Profumo, who knows whether it was under the guise of prostitution, or a 'favour'. I don't even know if it was proven, or just heresay from the newspapers at the time which has stuck.

She found fame through that affair, as a result of her allure, uncanny how the Lilith rising trine her MC Venus so aptly describe how she found notorioty through the Lilith/Venus energy so strong (angular) and public (MC) in her chart, through the newspapers (Gemini). However, the Lilith is also scorned and rejected by the public, she tends to be a bit of a loners as well as wildly independant and controversial, she also liberates things and people from what may be surpressing them, but in this society, the following of instincts is very much frowned upon.

She is writing her own autobiography I believe, only read about it briefly, I think its coming out soon or out already.

[PersephoneAbducted]

Oooh, good thread! I think, or am told, lol, that I have this effect on men but I'm too nice to take advantage of it. I tried to attach my chart as a sig pic but if it didn't work, I have a 2H Taurus Sun conj Chiron opposite BML in Scorp, Gemini Moon opp Scorp Uranus. .... but now that I think about it, I have been known to use my sexuality to heal others. I could see that being an effect of the Chiron energy. If it weren't there, I might be a little more 'fatale'- like. As it is, former lovers tend to remember me fondly. Oh well.

To answer the original question, I think one significator would be an 8H Aquarius, or BML in Aqua. A femme fatale would need a certain degree of detachment in love and sex. My Pisces asc makes me care too much about other peoples feelings to treat them poorly.

[missuniverse]

Originally Posted by Love2Know

I understand what you mean but my logic was, these femme fatal qualities generall arise through pain..... so saturn would come into play. When I was hurt by a guy I dated a lot without the regard for some feelings of men I probably should have been nicer to... I was hurt though.. a great feeling of abandonment or mistrust can be found within the past of most 'deadly charmers' of course nothing alone explains anything. Yeah for the saturn square venus adding beauty to aging I just read that on an astrology blog so I dunno lol

I think Robyn explains it pretty well in her song, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv644ipg2Ss a lot of cold hearted men and women I have met who have the 'player' 'femme fatal' thing going on.. it commonly starts from a source of pain like this or parent issues....

I totally agree with you Love2Know, that femme fatale qualities would arise through the pain, past and maybe sort of abandonement or violence, disrepsect she could have experienced earlier in life.

And another thing about Femme Fatale I think is confidenece, and absolute comfort with herself, and I think both of these qualities manifesting with age.
So a woman to be called Femme Fatale is more likely would be in their late 20s- or 30s and older
I cant imagine young 18 year girl to be Femme Fatale...
its about very appealing mature feminity and confidence...

[missuniverse]

Femininity , sorry for mistake

[hvnlystarz]

you are correct missuniverse- femme means woman in french and fatale means deadly. to be a younger girl fatale one would say fille fatale- and i think they probably are much rarer

i still feel that to be a true femme fatale one would have to have conscious intent to entrance, seduce, use and abuse someone. to just be attractive and charming and have men fall in love with you because they are projecting all their unrealized fantasies on you doesn't make you a femme fatale. it just makes you an anima figure.

[Neptune Rising]

Originally Posted by PersephoneAbducted

To answer the original question, I think one significator would be an 8H Aquarius, or BML in Aqua. A femme fatale would need a certain degree of detachment in love and sex. My Pisces asc makes me care too much about other peoples feelings to treat them poorly.

Lol, I have BML in Aquarius in sextile with my 1st house Mars. Oh, and my Sun is the midpoint of Lilith/Mars. Also Venus/Mercury in Aquarius in trine with MC Pluto. Venus and Pluto are sextile my ascendant. I do have something that seems to magnetise people, especially if I put an intention in it. Lol, Pisces Moon though makes me too soft though to play it as some may, but that doesn't stop me attracting situations at times.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by missuniverse

Hello dear astrologers,

I been interested in the theme of femme fatale or distructive woman in astrology, and I ve found that some combinations of signs and planets such as Mars in Libra, Venus in Aries or Scorpio can make a woman a Femme Fatale ...

What are your thoughts about that?

I hate generalizations on placements like this, as I have Mars in Libra and Venus in Scorpio -am I a Dude Fatale? lol Definitely not.

However I do have personal experience with a "femme fatale", I fell into her snares a couple of times and was hurt badly. She is 34, and does have Venus in Aries but it is opposite Pluto so I think Claire's point on that is likely valid.

Not all femme fatales are consciously malicious, and some are acting out negative, subconscious patterns which are inevitably destructive to their men. Same applies to male fatales. And really, it takes "two to tango" so to speak, there is an energetic match there, and on some level a so-called "victim" of a person fatale signed up for the experience, ultimately for learning and growth, even if it is painful!

[gisele]

ohhhhh interesting discussion.

I have one: Venus in the 8th: Venus in the 8th house can penetrate into a deeper level of relating than most people. No other placement of Venus can understand the unconscious side of relationships. Venus in this house is attracted to deeper and dangerous levels of engagement. They crave intense, deep, emotional relationships, and would even prefer a stormy, tumultuous relationship to one which is smooth but lacking in depth.

Those with Venus here may be drawn into power-struggles and destructive relationships, and they are prone to jealousy The individual loves with all consuming, total devotion and expect the same attention from a partner. ...and if she doesn't get it she would seek to destroy her partner.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by gisele

ohhhhh interesting discussion.

I have one: Venus in the 8th: Venus in the 8th house can penetrate into a deeper level of relating than most people. No other placement of Venus can understand the unconscious side of relationships. Venus in this house is attracted to deeper and dangerous levels of engagement. They crave intense, deep, emotional relationships, and would even prefer a stormy, tumultuous relationship to one which is smooth but lacking in depth.

Those with Venus here may be drawn into power-struggles and destructive relationships, and they are prone to jealousy The individual loves with all consuming, total devotion and expect the same attention from a partner. ...and if she doesn't get it she would seek to destroy her partner.

Very interesting gisele, thankyou. This is much like the Scorpion Venus of course, but I seriously doubt that anyone would consciously "prefer a stormy, tumultuous relationship" . I know that the 8th house Venus with whom I'm currently enamored does not want this!

[gisele]

Originally Posted by Horus

Very interesting gisele, thankyou. This is much like the Scorpion Venus of course, but I seriously doubt that anyone would consciously "prefer a stormy, tumultuous relationship" . I know that the 8th house Venus with whom I'm currently enamored does not want this!

hehehe!! I can tell you that there are lots of people who can't get enough of doomed relationships... I used to be like that as well... I was only interested in the fatal attractions...And I did a lot of damage in my course and of course got burned several times myself. I needed that. It sounds strange and I cannot explain it.

BUT luckily I learned, upgraded my relationship model and moved on.

Now I channel my dark vibes into something more productive :-)

And I am glad your 8 house Venus love interest is sweet as pie, just keep her on her toes a little bit ;-)

[Neptune Rising]

Originally Posted by gisele

ohhhhh interesting discussion.

I have one: Venus in the 8th: Venus in the 8th house can penetrate into a deeper level of relating than most people. No other placement of Venus can understand the unconscious side of relationships. Venus in this house is attracted to deeper and dangerous levels of engagement. They crave intense, deep, emotional relationships, and would even prefer a stormy, tumultuous relationship to one which is smooth but lacking in depth.

Those with Venus here may be drawn into power-struggles and destructive relationships, and they are prone to jealousy The individual loves with all consuming, total devotion and expect the same attention from a partner. ...and if she doesn't get it she would seek to destroy her partner.

I relate to this with Venus (and Mercury) in trine with Pluto. Its very much true as well, drama in relationships. Not sure if its femme fatale though? Relationships with Venus/Pluto are usually true, deep and transformative. Femme fatale, I get the impression, can tend to be more superficial?

[Neptune Rising]

Originally Posted by Bas Astro Service

Venus / pluto

Could you elaborate a bit?

[Love2Know]

PLus Saturn Moon!!!! Emotional nature is vital as well.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by MJ82

Some very interesting comments..

I personally don't think a femme fatale is necessarily ruthless. Charming and a temptress, a siren, yes, and the "fatal" bit comes from possibly devouring men (or women!) and being an utter heart breaker.

The term brings to mind many a famous woman, including Rita Hayworth and the roles she famously played. But she, as an example, never played ruthless and cold, quite the opposite. She was beguiling, slippery and impossible to tame or conquer. And men craved her and yet ended up in ruin. That's a femme fatale in my book

But you see they dont play ruthless and cold, just the opposite or they would not attract or seduce.. But in their hearts they are cool.
I would love to have looked just like Rita Hayworth...sigh...

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by virgo18

WHAT ABOUT?
(Venus in Scorpio conjunction Pluto) opposite Moon in Taurus.
Ruler of the ascendant in the 8th
Mars in Virgo 29 degrees (almost in libra) in the 10th house.
Lilith in Libra
The final dispositors of my chart are Pluto and Saturn

Moon in Taurus is sensual and acquisitive....Mars in Virgo would preclude any real sexual promiscuity or sensuality in general. Venus in Scorpio conjunct Pluto yes I can see that.... I have ruler of the ascendant in the 8th as well as Venus and Mars in Libra sextile Pluto
and have played the seductress for sure but I am not innately cool enough to seduce for my own ends...

[gisele]

Originally Posted by Neptune Rising

I relate to this with Venus (and Mercury) in trine with Pluto. Its very much true as well, drama in relationships. Not sure if its femme fatale though? Relationships with Venus/Pluto are usually true, deep and transformative. Femme fatale, I get the impression, can tend to be more superficial?

In my books, a femme fatale is a cold man eater as well, but there is usually a reason why she turned out that way.

And a destructive and painful first relationship that burned a woman (who is susceptible to these fatal attractions) can lead to this ruthless behaviour towards other men. Femme fatales manipulate, seduce, and seek attention/devotion because they have a huge hole inside. They feed off their victims to bolster their self-esteem (other than was stated earlier in the thread I think they are emotionally extremely insecure, but of course not when it comes to appearance..)

A lot of passion and deep feelings turned bad make a femme fatale.

It is this raging pain that turns them cold towards other's feelings.

[Caro]

hmmmm i would say I can be a bit like this

I have scorpio rising. mars in 12th. maybe other planets in 12th .

if you added to this venus conj saturn.

wasnt Ava Gardner like this with frank sinatra. she drove him insane.So maybe look at her chart if available.

[Love2Know]

Originally Posted by gisele

In my books, a femme fatale is a cold man eater as well, but there is usually a reason why she turned out that way.

And a destructive and painful first relationship that burned a woman (who is susceptible to these fatal attractions) can lead to this ruthless behaviour towards other men. Femme fatales manipulate, seduce, and seek attention/devotion because they have a huge hole inside. They feed off their victims to bolster their self-esteem (other than was stated earlier in the thread I think they are emotionally extremely insecure, but of course not when it comes to appearance..)

A lot of passion and deep feelings turned bad make a femme fatale.

It is this raging pain that turns them cold towards other's feelings.

EXactly, like the evil queen in Once Upon a Time Series........so saturn plays a big role and how the moon interprets and deals with the pain. Like I been cold a bit but my leo moon always warms me back up in time and I get optimistic again but it is also in the first.