Is there anything in my chart that points to potential fame?

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra

True.
Saturn is also about worrying.

nope, saturn is a 'reality check' saturn leaves the worrying to virgo and cancer....

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Love2Know

Ok so I don't get it so then saturn in the 4th wants what? I want a fast metabolism.....

Saturn in the 4th house
Saturn here operates in the latter part of life when its negative aspects are much harder to take. In the roots of the being a selfishness that must be broken up or the dues will be collected in the latter part of life.
Can gain through real estate and land.
Possibility of trouble with indigestion due to emotions. The ulcer type.
Often strong mother complex and a tendency to cling to the past.
Needs to get away from home in order to get over psychological bias. Appears independent but fears to leave home. Will be happier away from the place of birth.
Domestic responsibilities or difficulties are likely.
In childhood these may be the result of others` actions, but adults invariably attract these commitments.
There is a need for domestic security ‑ often provided by physical ties. Will take great pains to make a secure home
They would probably have to take on heavy ­responsibilities from an early age and may have had to struggle for domestic security and will work very hard to provide for your home and family. May have experienced poverty as a child

[Love2Know]

so what does saturn 4th sag mean to you then? I can agree with half, I talk about putting cameras in my future home and worry about having kids. I have a feeling poverty won't be an issue for me I think responsibility and feeling trapped by responsibility is and I need to find my freedom from within myself. As a tea reader recently told me, I am very blessed and all my problems are in my head and perceived and my happiness will be realized when I realize how blessed I am in this life. Basically I need to stop worrying so much. As a kid if my parents were even 10 minutes late from work I would think they died. I am security obsessed.

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra

True.
Saturn is also about worrying.

Who is teaching you guys these definitions?

Originally Posted by astrologer50

nope, saturn is a 'reality check' saturn leaves the worrying to virgo and cancer....

^^

I'd agree virgo and cancer would do more worrying, Saturn is about Ambitions, POWER! Karma, Fear of failure, hard work and reward.

Saturn is the son of Uranus and Gaia, and was considered a god of abundance! during the golden ages of the Roman empire, he was depicted by holding a sickle and a bundle of wheat, bringing in a fruitful harvest over his reign.

The Godess Gaia was the mother of 6 sons and daughters from Uranus, the first known Titans, and Uranus hated them. He cast them inside of Gaia (the earth) to cause her as much pain as possible, so she fashioned a sickle so her children could kill Uranus, and the youngest and most ambitious, Saturn, took the sickle to castrate and overthrow him. Uranus is the god of the sky, and the blood shed born the nymphs and giants talked about in the Bible. Saturn, after gaining power, paired up with his sister, Opt as his wife. Saturn re-imprisoned his siblings inside of the earth, so Uranus and Gaia foretold of a child that would eventually overthrow Saturn, and to prevent the same fate of his father, he started devouring his own children until Jupiter was born. Saturn was tricked into thinking he devoured Saturn when Opt wrapped a stone in blanket and had him sent away to the Island of Crete. Eventually Jupiter secured a job as Saturn's cup-bearer, where he fed Saturn a poison that made him vomit his siblings and they became Hestia, Demeter, Hades, Poseidon, and Hera, also known as Vesta, Ceres, Juno, Pluto, and Neptune. This is why Saturn and Jupiter are naturally (opposing) one another, where Jupiter brings abundance Saturn devours. When Jupiter ascended to his throne (Zeus), saturn in remorse fled to Rome and built the golden empire, a time of prosperity and complete harmony till the end of his reign.

Saturn is forever held as a malefic planet, but in fact when saturn rewards, it is the most profound of any ruling planet in astrology.

Saturn brings problems associated with "father" because of what he did to his father, and his own children to protect himself from his fate. Children are swallowed by his domination, and until the pattern is broken (Jupiter) he can remain a dominant force. He is linked to Karma for this and is considered the feelings of shame, guilt, suffering and depression, for his endevours dealing with his need to control his fate. After realizing what he did however, he created a time of amazing warmth, abundance, peace and harmony. Because he took personal responsibility for his actions, he holds the same standard to natives in their chart.

As the god of harvest, the seeds you sew will determine the harvest you yield.

Originally Posted by Love2Know

so what does saturn 4th sag mean to you then? I can agree with half, I talk about putting cameras in my future home and worry about having kids. I have a feeling poverty won't be an issue for me I think responsibility and feeling trapped by responsibility is and I need to find my freedom from within myself. As a tea reader recently told me, I am very blessed and all my problems are in my head and perceived and my happiness will be realized when I realize how blessed I am in this life. Basically I need to stop worrying so much. As a kid if my parents were even 10 minutes late from work I would think they died. I am security obsessed.

I did some digging, maybe this will help;

Saturn in Sagittarius: Saturn and the Earth (esoteric ruler of Sagittarius) combine to bring a certain mental pragmatism to this combination. The Archer-Centaur gives direction and purpose to walking the Path. When Soul-centered, Saturn in Sagittarius provides the ability for an individual to take the inherent wisdom contained in all the world’s creeds and philosophies, and synthesize this information into a teaching that transcends all religious differences. On the personality level, this position may restrict a person from widening his perspective through a rigid adherence to one’s personal beliefs

Saturn in the Fourth House: Take charge of yourself! The path towards a greater sense of personal fulfillment is totally connected to the construction of a strong inner foundation of mature responsibility. When well aspected and/or in a favorable sign, Saturn in the Fourth shows that such efforts have already been achieved and that the individual may now build upon such a solid foundation.

My own interp is that with Jupiter keeping an eye on saturn, it is likely that at some point you will need to take responsibility for the home, and once you do you'll create a prosperous and harmonious place to live. You could also home school your children.

[Rebel Uranian]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Saturn in the 4th house
Saturn here operates in the latter part of life when its negative aspects are much harder to take. In the roots of the being a selfishness that must be broken up or the dues will be collected in the latter part of life.
Can gain through real estate and land.
Possibility of trouble with indigestion due to emotions. The ulcer type.
Often strong mother complex and a tendency to cling to the past.
Needs to get away from home in order to get over psychological bias. Appears independent but fears to leave home. Will be happier away from the place of birth.
Domestic responsibilities or difficulties are likely.
In childhood these may be the result of others` actions, but adults invariably attract these commitments.
There is a need for domestic security ‑ often provided by physical ties. Will take great pains to make a secure home
They would probably have to take on heavy *responsibilities from an early age and may have had to struggle for domestic security and will work very hard to provide for your home and family. May have experienced poverty as a child

The 4th house rules fathers, or at least father figures, not mothers. Mothers/mother figures would be the 10th house. The 4th/10th axis is basically the family axis. I'm not sure if the MC/IC say the same thing but I've occasionally heard that the axis does. All the cases where I've heard it mean that put the MC as the mother and IC as the father most of the time, depending on who makes money.

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

The 4th house rules fathers, or at least father figures, not mothers. Mothers/mother figures would be the 10th house.

4th house is ruled by cancer, and thus the moon...

Venus, ruler of taurus, exhalts the moon, and provides the loving/nurturing and beauty/magic/luxury it brings... (thus the sextiles to house 4 from 2nd)

who in the heck told you 4th house ruled fathers? 10th house is ruled by Saturn, nothing is better suited for father than the 10th house (thus the opposition, as mother is quite different from father)

Saturn in 10th can also make you put emphasis on fatherhood, and with good aspects makes fathering important to you.

[Rebel Uranian]

There are no natural sign rulers for houses until you can tell me where the beginning and ending of a circle is. You can't match up a 1st sign with a 1st house because there are no 1st signs or 1st houses. There is a 1st house from the East horizon and a 1st sign of spring, but there's no 1st point on a circle to allow you to match up those two dimensions in any way. My 1st sign could be the 1st mutable sign of winter if I wanted it to be.

Saturn Joys in the 4th because the 4th rules fathers. Thus, it Sorrows (accidental debility) in the 10th. Now read. Please, that is.

Edit: Here's one of the quotes from that thread so you don't have to.

Originally Posted by dr. farr

Manilius (14 AD) gave much importance to the planetary joys (actually though he attributed the 4th house to Saturn's joy; Valens and subsequent Hellenists moved this to the 12th; I myself consider BOTH 4 and 12 to be joys of Saturn)

Manilius and Valens (and other Hellenists) give the following as the other planetary joys:
Mercury joys in 1st
Moon joys in 3rd
Venus joys in the 10th
Mars joys in the 6th
Jupiter joys in the 11th
Sun joys in the 9th

As I have posted elsewhere, I just give either +1 or -1 for any and all essential and accidental dignities/debilities' however, using the 1 to 5 points scoring method, in my opinion a planetary joy would be
a) an accidental dignity
...and
b) likely given a +3 score.

Opposite houses constitue the planetary "sorrows" (according to later Hellenists and early Islamic-transitional era authors)
Mercury sorrows in the 7th
Moon sorrows in the 9th
(Saturn sorrows in the 10th and/or Saturn sorrows in the 6th)
Mars sorrows in the 12th
Jupiter sorrows in the 5th
Sun sorrows in the 3rd
Venus sorrows in the 4th

These would be regarded as accidental detriments (and probably scored in the 1-5 point scoring method as -3)

Also, notice the Joy of Venus. How wonderfully fatherly.

[Love2Know]

I learnt a lot about the post and mythology rageypoo, this indeed can explain my fear of having children yet feeling it is inevitable I also always wanted to adopt at least 1 kid. I do lack talking responsibility and still haven't moved out of my parents house. I also joke I never want to..... I can relate to what you posted very well.

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

There are no natural sign rulers for houses until you can tell me where the beginning and ending of a circle is. You can't match up a 1st sign with a 1st house because there are no 1st signs or 1st houses. There is a 1st house from the East horizon and a 1st sign of spring, but there's no 1st point on a circle to allow you to match up those two dimensions in any way. My 1st sign could be the 1st mutable sign of winter if I wanted it to be.

Saturn Joys in the 4th because the 4th rules fathers. Thus, it Sorrows (accidental debility) in the 10th. Now read. Please, that is.

Edit: Here's one of the quotes from that thread so you don't have to.

Also, notice the Joy of Venus. How wonderfully fatherly.

According to your link, Saturn "joys" in the 4th and 12th, which I can understand because 12th allows saturn to reign free. These "joys' have nothing to do with what the house represents.

the fourth house is NOT about fathers.

Originally Posted by Love2Know

I learnt a lot about the post and mythology rageypoo, this indeed can explain my fear of having children yet feeling it is inevitable I also always wanted to adopt at least 1 kid. I do lack talking responsibility and still haven't moved out of my parents house. I also joke I never want to..... I can relate to what you posted very well.

Saturn alone wouldn't keep you from wanting children, I think that would be more 5th house issues (house of creativity, children, lovers) as that was more lore than anything, so if it was placed there then certainly.

(after looking at your chart, Sag rules your 5th house, and saturn is in 4th sag, which could very well attribute ^_^)

[Rebel Uranian]

You mean the 12th. If you actually read the link, you would read that initially the Joy of Saturn was the 4th because the 4th ruled fathers and anscestors, something also ruled by Saturn, but then it got changed to the 12th because the 12th house is the "greater malefic" (or, simply put, the worst) house and Saturn is the "Greater Malefic." The 4th is not only about fathers but it includes fathers, just like the 1st is not all about the head but it includes the head (and thus is the Joy of Mercury, planet of "the head" or intellect.)

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

You mean the 12th. If you actually read the link, you would read that initially the Joy of Saturn was the 4th because the 4th ruled fathers and anscestors, something also ruled by Saturn, but then it got changed to the 12th because the 12th house is the "greater malefic" (or, simply put, the worst) house and Saturn is the "Greater Malefic." The 4th is not only about fathers but it includes fathers, just like the 1st is not all about the head but it includes the head (and thus is the Joy of Mercury, planet of "the head" or intellect.)

I'm sorry but the 4th is traditionally ruled by cancer and thus, the moon. It does not deal with "fathers" in any way other than family matters, that house is intended for roots, family, heritage, ANCESTORS and as the moon (mother) rules cancer, there's no evidence that this is a "father" house.

this link you gave me just shows a bunch of people speculating when theres no facts to back it up. Astrologer50 is right in her initial description of the 4th house.

[Rebel Uranian]

This is an article from skyscript on the 4th house. Skyscript is the most reputable trad website that I can think of and definitely one of the most reputable on the Internet if not the most reputable. If you don't use trad, that's fine, but I'm just letting you know that what I'm saying is perfectly valid and common practice (except to you.) I use trad for houses because I know that modern for houses doesn't work. Modern works better for midpoints and things it invented. Trad works best for the things it invented. Basically, types of astrology work best for the things they invented, not the things they adapted.

"Main Rulerships:
Everything that relates to the foundation and roots of our existence. Parents in general and fathers in particular; grandparents and ancestry. Paternity (inheritance from parents) as well as the psychological parental influence.
This house also rules hidden treasure and the treasures of the earth, such as mines and minerals, gems, oil, wells and water supplies; Lilly notes: "profit out of the bowels of the Earth" ([CA], p.558). It rules land, the quality and nature of the ground, (whether it is fertile, swampy, woody, stony or barren), and all buildings and structures on it - the property of the home as well as the emotional environment.
Farming, agriculture and any occupation that is concerned with tending the land is relevant here. Baigent, Campion and Harvey suggest nationalism, the ideology which represents love of the land ([MA], p.229); this would also embrace patriotism and a strong concern with 'roots', tradition and history.
It is said to indicate the beginning and end of all things, representing early childhood experiences that give rise to an unconscious emotional experience of life, the vulnerability of old age, the process of death, and funerals. Death by drowning is particularly relevant.

In Horary Astrology:
The querent's father. ...

..."

Fathers, structures, agriculture, material resources, the land/ground, tradition, old age, and final conditions. What about that is not Saturn?

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

This is an article from skyscript on the 4th house. Skyscript is the most reputable trad website that I can think of and definitely one of the most reputable on the Internet if not the most reputable. If you don't use trad, that's fine, but I'm just letting you know that what I'm saying is perfectly valid and common practice (except to you.) I use trad for houses because I know that modern for houses doesn't work. Modern works better for midpoints and things it invented. Trad works best for the things it invented. Basically, types of astrology work best for the things they invented, not the things they adapted.

"Main Rulerships:
Everything that relates to the foundation and roots of our existence. Parents in general and fathers in particular; grandparents and ancestry. Paternity (inheritance from parents) as well as the psychological parental influence.
This house also rules hidden treasure and the treasures of the earth, such as mines and minerals, gems, oil, wells and water supplies; Lilly notes: "profit out of the bowels of the Earth" ([CA], p.558). It rules land, the quality and nature of the ground, (whether it is fertile, swampy, woody, stony or barren), and all buildings and structures on it - the property of the home as well as the emotional environment.
Farming, agriculture and any occupation that is concerned with tending the land is relevant here. Baigent, Campion and Harvey suggest nationalism, the ideology which represents love of the land ([MA], p.229); this would also embrace patriotism and a strong concern with 'roots', tradition and history.
It is said to indicate the beginning and end of all things, representing early childhood experiences that give rise to an unconscious emotional experience of life, the vulnerability of old age, the process of death, and funerals. Death by drowning is particularly relevant.

In Horary Astrology:
The querent's father. ...

..."

Fathers, structures, agriculture, material resources, the land/ground, tradition, old age, and final conditions. What about that is not Saturn?

So because it mentions fathers you automatically assume Saturn? tsk tsk...

Being the "temple" for saturn doesn't make 4th rule fathers. 4th house is paternal, but feminine. Saturn rules 10th period.

don't confuse the similarities with rulership.

[Rebel Uranian]

Here's a bit from the skyscript article on the 10th house if you still think that the 4th is maternal and the 10th is paternal:

"Main Rulerships:
Employment, profession or trade; also employers and those in command. Honour, prestige, reputation, power, control, dignity, glory, acclaim, advancement - the worldly position, career or life-interest that attains these. Likelihood of success relative to one's station in life. Fame, infamy, notoriety - the public eye. Unfavourable publicity if afflicted. The Sun, Jupiter or Venus, if well aspected, indicate professional success, Saturn indicates responsibility or, if badly afflicted, disgrace and ruin.
Those in dignified positions such as royalty and nobility: kings, princes, dukes, earls, etc. The government or those in office."
[deleted quote over 100 words in one post against forum rules - Moderator]

The 4th house is Saturnian for a billion more reasons than ruling fathers. Just go read these articles. It doesn't hurt unless you just find reading trad that painful.

Also, if you really want to assume that the 1st house from the East horizon is equivalent to the 1st sign of Spring, both the 10th and 4th houses are feminine.

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

Here's a bit from the skyscript article on the 10th house if you still think that the 4th is maternal and the 10th is paternal:

"Main Rulerships:
Employment, profession or trade; also employers and those in command. Honour, prestige, reputation, power, control, dignity, glory, acclaim, advancement - the worldly position, career or life-interest that attains these. Likelihood of success relative to one's station in life. Fame, infamy, notoriety - the public eye. Unfavourable publicity if afflicted. The Sun, Jupiter or Venus, if well aspected, indicate professional success, Saturn indicates responsibility or, if badly afflicted, disgrace and ruin.
Those in dignified positions such as royalty and nobility: kings, princes, dukes, earls, etc. The government or those in office..."
[deleted quote over 100 words in one post - Moderator]

The 4th house is Saturnian for a billion more reasons than ruling fathers. Just go read these articles. It doesn't hurt unless you just find reading trad that painful.

Also, if you really want to assume that the 1st house from the East horizon is equivalent to the 1st sign of Spring, both the 10th and 4th houses are feminine.

Well, my saturn is sextile by jupiter, and trine by venus, and as saturn sits in the 10th house, and according to your description represents authority in decision making, I'll have to judge this and say that Astro50 is correct.

Thanks for the links, they really helped ^_^

[Rebel Uranian]

You're actually using the links? To what, prove me wrong? Have fun proving the people who wrote that stuff wrong.

I never said that Saturn in the 10th didn't stand for authority and decision making. All I said is that the 10th house rules mothers and the 4th house rules fathers, and that the 4th house is more Saturnian. Read what Saturn stands for and then read what the houses stand for again.

"The Sun, Jupiter or Venus, if well aspected, indicate professional success, Saturn indicates responsibility or, if badly afflicted, disgrace and ruin. "

Saturn doesn't indicate success. The Sun, Jupiter, and Venus do that. Authority and decision-making are a general 10th house matter, not a specific Saturn in 10th matter.

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

You're actually using the links? To what, prove me wrong? Have fun proving the people who wrote that stuff wrong.

I never said that Saturn in the 10th didn't stand for authority and decision making. All I said is that the 10th house rules mothers and the 4th house rules fathers, and that the 4th house is more Saturnian. Read what Saturn stands for and then read what the houses stand for again.

"The Sun, Jupiter or Venus, if well aspected, indicate professional success, Saturn indicates responsibility or, if badly afflicted, disgrace and ruin. "

Saturn doesn't indicate success. The Sun, Jupiter, and Venus do that. Authority and decision-making are a general 10th house matter, not a specific Saturn in 10th matter.

it's well aspected

[Rebel Uranian]

Yes, but it just indicates responsibility, not big responsibilities. It's still in its house of Sorrow. That might not be bad at all depending on the net dignity of it. My Saturn is both peregrine and fall and the net dignity was +28 I think (this is based on Ptolemy.) +16 of that is essential dignity.

[Rageypoo]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

Yes, but it just indicates responsibility, not big responsibilities. It's still in its house of Sorrow. That might not be bad at all depending on the net dignity of it. My Saturn is both peregrine and fall and the net dignity was +28 I think. +16 of that is essential dignity.

Excellent, then I'm sure you will concede with dignity

[Rebel Uranian]

We must remember that dignity is valuable but our lives are valuable too. Oh, and that's a quote by the way.

[Quixotic]

Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian

@Quixotic - Can I see your chart? I don't think Saturn in the 4th means issues with father. Both the 4th house and Saturn rule fathers (or at least father figures.) Saturn is very happily placed in the 4th, as I have said. It seems 2 people with Saturn in the 4th like their father and 2 don't, and I suspect Saturn will move to another house of the charts of one party or the other.

Here is my chart c:

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Love2Know

I learnt a lot about the post and mythology rageypoo, this indeed can explain my fear of having children yet feeling it is inevitable I also always wanted to adopt at least 1 kid. I do lack talking responsibility and still haven't moved out of my parents house. I also joke I never want to..... I can relate to what you posted very well.

How is talking about mythology and fear of having children responding to OP's questions. if you have concerns, simply start your own thread!

Saturn in 5th and poss other planets in 5th describes children of lack thereof, not 4th inanyevent...

Originally Posted by fullmoonlibra

My Saturn is opposite to chiron[this is simply generational] in tenth and square to jupiter in seventh
Is it going to ruin my carreer? Or my marriage??

you should create your OWN thread as this is off topic again and not responding to OP but your own self interests...thread header, " Is there anything in my chart that points to potential fame?"

I would also mention that anyone wanting to discuss traditonal methods can go to Trad forum to explore those...

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Quixotic

Here is my chart c:

it's worth remiding members when threads go way off topic (like this has) to report to moderators using the report function top right of post [!]

Why are you reposting for lazy members with traditional methods when your chart has been posted at least once on first page??

[Quixotic]

Thank you a50.

I agree, can we get back on topic everyone? More specifically Fullmoonlibra and love2know; if you have questions about your own chart, make your own thread instead of leeching off of mine to get answers, please and thank you.

As much as I enjoy discussion and learning all that I can, a50 is right.
So lets get back on topic. Thank you.

[Quixotic]

Originally Posted by sequestra

Where do I report someone for being a forum nazi?

A50 is right, sequestra. The members asking for interps in my thread are being not only self-centered but rude as well. So please, do not try and pick a fight with someone trying to stand up for the OP.