| Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts. Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility. |
11-26-2011, 05:24 PM
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astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
what makes a person a lier in a natal chart?
12th and 1st same ruler = a lier? or what does it mean?
do you have any other aspects or charts of liers?
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11-30-2011, 12:03 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieror
what makes a person a lier in a natal chart?
12th and 1st same ruler = a lier? or what does it mean?
do you have any other aspects or charts of liers?
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12th house ruler and 1st house ruler CANNOT be the same 
[deleted Moderator-like comment from a non-Moderator - Moderator]
You should also remember we are all visual people and need to see charts.
How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126
what members like to see in a thread – help forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25930
May I suggest you read the 'welcome to the world of astrology’ and other ---sticky' at the top of this forum? It has some great explanations, links etc. At the top of every forum there are lots of ‘stickys’ which explain matters in that forum, along with guidelines & tips
There is a 'plethora' of information on AW, espec in the 'stickys' at the top of every forum, our Education forum and Recommendations forum to. Plus we have a good search feature,[but not foolproof obviously, so try here first] bit like google using keywords – initially select advanced and try just selecting 'titles' rather than posts
Last edited by wilsontc; 12-19-2011 at 03:12 PM.
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12-19-2011, 01:59 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrologer50
12th house ruler and 1st house ruler CANNOT be the same |
Unless ASC is in Aquarius...which is by some considered to be ruled by Saturn.
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"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
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12-19-2011, 03:29 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
Unless ASC is in Aquarius...which is by some considered to be ruled by Saturn.
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"By some" is a bit of an understatement 
There's more to it than what sign is on the ascendant. If anything a Capricorn rising would be more inclined to lie than a Capricorn 12th House.
It comes down to the significator of manners and its condition.
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Whole Signs! Use it, love it, live it.
Always search for the truth and accept nothing less. Sometimes you're wrong, it happens. Just remember, your ego can be brushed aside easily, give it a try. 
Sequestra says " he's quite nuts"
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12-19-2011, 03:34 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSO
"By some" is a bit of an understatement
There's more to it than what sign is on the ascendant. If anything a Capricorn rising would be more inclined to lie than a Capricorn 12th House.
It comes down to the significator of manners and its condition. |
MSO, I was trying to be "diplomatic?" What is considered the significator of manners?
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"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
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12-19-2011, 03:45 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
MSO, I was trying to be "diplomatic?" What is considered the significator of manners? |
1. Planet(s) in the first house.
2. Planet that rules the first house (if there are no planets in the first).
3. The Dispositor of the Significator.
If there is more than one significator, take the strongest one.
The dispositor is just the planet that has the most dignities in the first house. So if Jupiter is in Libra on the AC, then Venus would disposit Jupiter.
And so, when determining the person's manners, the qualities of the significator and dispositor are used. Both good, good nature. Both bad, bad nature. One good, one bad, good on the outside, bad on the inside. And so forth.
__________________
Astrologer In Training
Whole Signs! Use it, love it, live it.
Always search for the truth and accept nothing less. Sometimes you're wrong, it happens. Just remember, your ego can be brushed aside easily, give it a try.
Sequestra says " he's quite nuts"
Last edited by MSO; 12-19-2011 at 03:53 PM.
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12-19-2011, 04:16 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
If you use our search feature, there has been plenty of threads on here about this subject. I would look for mercury/neptune aspects myself and poss mercury 12th...
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12-19-2011, 04:17 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
Unless ASC is in Aquarius...which is by some considered to be ruled by Saturn.
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As *some* the majority consider Aquarius rising to be ruled by Uranus 
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12-19-2011, 04:18 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSO
1. Planet(s) in the first house.
2. Planet that rules the first house (if there are no planets in the first).
3. The Dispositor of the Significator.
If there is more than one significator, take the strongest one.
The dispositor is just the planet that has the most dignities in the first house. So if Jupiter is in Libra on the AC, then Venus would disposit Jupiter.
And so, when determining the person's manners, the qualities of the significator and dispositor are used. Both good, good nature. Both bad, bad nature. One good, one bad, good on the outside, bad on the inside. And so forth.
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Hey, thanks.  So I suppose if Venus is in fall...lol. Though if we are talking about manners, would that indicate the socitial "little white lies," with something else (poss. Part of Corruptness, eg) indicating lying for gain?
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"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
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12-19-2011, 04:18 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Reinhold Ebertin suggests Moon/Mercury/Neptune combinations gives a propensity for lying.
The British spy Kim Philby's chart can be found at Astrodienst.
J.R.R.
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12-19-2011, 04:23 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryRR
Reinhold Ebertin suggests Moon/Mercury/Neptune combinations gives a propensity for lying.
The British spy Kim Philby's chart can be found at Astrodienst.
J.R.R.
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Jerry...ouch? Though if we could also consider fictional writing as "lying..."
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"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~Mark Twain
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12-19-2011, 04:23 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune. Possibly Sun and or Moon in hard apsect to Neptune as well. House and sign placement would make a difference too.
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12-19-2011, 04:35 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall
Hey, thanks. So I suppose if Venus is in fall...lol. Though if we are talking about manners, would that indicate the socitial "little white lies," with something else (poss. Part of Corruptness, eg) indicating lying for gain? |
I don't know about the Parts, but I know that a benevolent planet having a malevolent planet as a dispositor shows a person who is nice on the outside, but mean on the inside. I have a friend like that who repeatedly makes promises he never keeps, and always blames it on other people.
Not that all people with this set-up are like that, but that's just my personal experience with it.
__________________
Astrologer In Training
Whole Signs! Use it, love it, live it.
Always search for the truth and accept nothing less. Sometimes you're wrong, it happens. Just remember, your ego can be brushed aside easily, give it a try.
Sequestra says " he's quite nuts"
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12-19-2011, 09:23 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieror
what makes a person a lier in a natal chart?
12th and 1st same ruler = a lier? or what does it mean?
do you have any other aspects or charts of liers?
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Mercury is known for his tricks - in fact Mercury's reputation as trickster made him a patron of thieves, Mercury rules functions of the mind–how you take in and process information, how you learn, how you think, how you strategize, how you communicate, talk and write. Your view of the world and your place in it is formed in large part by the way Mercury functions in your chart
So check out Mercury
Regarding 12th and 1st house having same ruler, that would apply to Saturn-ruled Capricorn and Aquariusi.e. Capricorn 12th house, Aquarius 1st house
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12-19-2011, 09:41 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
In my exerience,neptune square mars made for good liars!!But thats just been my expereince!
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Let It Do What It Do! 
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12-19-2011, 11:35 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrologer50
12th house ruler and 1st house ruler CANNOT be the same |
Yes they can be. These are the planetary rulerships:
...(Capricorn)
Aquarius - Saturn
Pisces - Jupiter
Aries - Mars
Taurus - Venus
Gemini - Mercury
Cancer - Moon (Luminary)
Leo - Sun (Luminary)
Virgo - Mercury
Libra - Venus
Scorpio - Mars
Sagittarius - Jupiter
Capricorn - Saturn
(Aquarius)...
This would be every Aquarius riser in both whole signs and equal house. In other house systems, it could be anyone with a 1st house of less than 30 degrees so that the 1st and 12th house cusp are in the same sign. I don't think it makes someone a liar since it's pretty systematic and very common unlike aspects and ruler positions, but I'm not sure what exactly it does.
Whoever doubts trad rulerships is going solely by feelings.
[Yesh, I just said what JUPITERASC said in some ways. But I'm not getting rid of it after I typed it because some bits are quite different and I like the way I laid it out.]
@JUPITERASC - Would you say that Mercury is somewhat "malefic?" I've been getting the idea that it functions more similarly to Mars and Saturn than anything...
Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 12-20-2011 at 12:09 AM.
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12-20-2011, 12:29 AM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pudinnpop
In my exerience,neptune square mars made for good liars!!But thats just been my expereince!
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Hey! I have Neptune square Mars and I never lied once in my life! 
Also I'm rich. And famous. And I have a pet tiger named Ralph who eats skittles and pop tarts. And I-
__________________
Astrologer In Training
Whole Signs! Use it, love it, live it.
Always search for the truth and accept nothing less. Sometimes you're wrong, it happens. Just remember, your ego can be brushed aside easily, give it a try.
Sequestra says " he's quite nuts"
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12-20-2011, 12:42 AM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSO
Hey! I have Neptune square Mars and I never lied once in my life!
Also I'm rich. And famous. And I have a pet tiger named Ralph who eats skittles and pop tarts. And I- |
I believe you, MSO but then I'm so gullible
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12-20-2011, 01:30 AM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian
Yes they can be. These are the planetary rulerships:
...(Capricorn)
Aquarius - Saturn
Pisces - Jupiter
Aries - Mars
Taurus - Venus
Gemini - Mercury
Cancer - Moon (Luminary)
Leo - Sun (Luminary)
Virgo - Mercury
Libra - Venus
Scorpio - Mars
Sagittarius - Jupiter
Capricorn - Saturn
(Aquarius)...
This would be every Aquarius riser in both whole signs and equal house. In other house systems, it could be anyone with a 1st house of less than 30 degrees so that the 1st and 12th house cusp are in the same sign. I don't think it makes someone a liar since it's pretty systematic and very common unlike aspects and ruler positions, but I'm not sure what exactly it does.
Whoever doubts trad rulerships is going solely by feelings.
[Yesh, I just said what JUPITERASC said in some ways. But I'm not getting rid of it after I typed it because some bits are quite different and I like the way I laid it out.]
@JUPITERASC - Would you say that Mercury is somewhat "malefic?" I've been getting the idea that it functions more similarly to Mars and Saturn than anything...
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Not necessarily Rebel Uranian - Mercury tends to be a chameleon influenced by nearby planets. Mercury conjunct Saturn/Mercury conjunct Mars could be considered 'malefic' when contrasted with Mercury conjunct Jupiter for example
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12-20-2011, 01:30 AM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mso
hey! I have neptune square mars and i never lied once in my life!
Also i'm rich. And famous. And i have a pet tiger named ralph who eats skittles and pop tarts. And i- |
bwahahahhahaa!! Mso!!!
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12-20-2011, 07:55 AM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
I guess there are different forms.
ie deception.(your spy types - could be scorpio)
being allaborate with the truth - boastful etc.
I would see the latter as easy aspects, merc, neptune ok but also jupiter.
someone I know who admits to lying and - has all easy aspects in her chart.
neptune in sagi,(conj mars and jupiter - all in 11th) merc in cap.
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12-20-2011, 01:03 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSO
Hey! I have Neptune square Mars and I never lied once in my life!
Also I'm rich. And famous. And I have a pet tiger named Ralph who eats skittles and pop tarts. And I- |
Can I pet your tiger and give him a sweetie?
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07-22-2012, 01:46 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vista
Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune. Possibly Sun and or Moon in hard apsect to Neptune as well. House and sign placement would make a difference too.
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I have observed that people with Mercury in aspect to Neptune tend to be deliberately deceptive too. Also they can be too vague or speak in a confusing manner rather than saying exactly what they mean.
Sagittarius tends to exaggerate the truth/ reality but not tell an outright lie. However, they are also one of the most blunt signs so you can usually rely on them for an honest opinion.
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07-22-2012, 01:50 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
Does anyone have some charts? Known pathological liars would be interesting to study.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica <--- lol, my new phrase of the week
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07-22-2012, 01:52 PM
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Re: astrology and lying =12th and 1st ruler same?
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