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  #1  
Old 10-04-2011, 09:43 AM
haileyscomet haileyscomet is offline
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Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Hi,

I'm intrigued by the most beneficial planet Jupiter, sitting in my 12th house. I read somewhere having this placement in your chart means "a guardian angel is there and saves you in the nick of time". Personally, its hard to say if this is true but it is a little comforting to know that. My Jupiter is in a retrograde motion so does that make a difference?

What are your thoughts on this placement? Do you have this placement and believe in the "guardian angel" aspect?

Thanks


Last edited by haileyscomet; 10-04-2011 at 11:12 AM. Reason: grammar!
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:36 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

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Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
Hi, I'm intrigued by the most beneficial planet Jupiter, sitting in my 12th house. I read somewhere having this placement in your chart means "a guardian angel is there and saves you in the nick of time". Personally, its hard to say if this is true but it is a little comforting to know that. My Jupiter is in a retrograde motion so does that make a difference? What are your thoughts on this placement? Do you have this placement and believe in the "guardian angel" aspect? Thanks
There are literally thousands of astrologers, all with different points of view as well as with different opinions, so if you are a beginner do experiment and ask questions. Modern astrology has its roots in Traditional astrology which began thousands of years ago. Here's a link to a website that has plenty of free information and free lessons on astrology both ancient and modern http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:23 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

I have Jupiter in 12th, and yes, I've experienced this my whole life. Someone once told me (after I borrowed a shady friend's car and it spun out and stalled in the middle of an expressway), "Someone up there is looking out for you", because he saw it happen, and it was a miracle I didn't get slammed by any speeding cars behind me. Up until that moment, I never really saw it how he put it.

The 12th house rules things that are hidden from you, either from your conscious mind, or hidden from view. It rules the unseen. Jupiter rules philosophy and religion, the higher mind, and the "Good God" who blesses with good fortune, (where as Saturn is the "bad" god who punishes".)

So it may be guardian angels, but it may be something even bigger than that, that sends those angels when you need them most. Jupiter also rules faith, so you may have tests of faith, which when passed, will reveal that higher power coming in to save you at the nick of time. And true to form, being in the 12th, you may never see this beneficent one's face..but He's still there.

Last edited by divine g; 10-04-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:46 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

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Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
Hi,

I'm intrigued by the most beneficial planet Jupiter, sitting in my 12th house. I read somewhere having this placement in your chart means "a guardian angel is there and saves you in the nick of time". Personally, its hard to say if this is true but it is a little comforting to know that. My Jupiter is in a retrograde motion so does that make a difference?

What are your thoughts on this placement? Do you have this placement and believe in the "guardian angel" aspect?

Thanks
You need to remember planets are modified by signs, where they express are houses and how they express are *aspects*

Jupiter Retrograde
* has doubts about what they deserve and so ...
* finds it easy to settle for crumbs
* feels superior in some way inside
* abundance is felt on the inside
* looks inside for answers to religious questions

http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/retrogradeplanets.htm#neprx

http://www.horoscopeswithin.com/planetsinhouses.php
Houses/signs are like the backdrop of a stage/theatre, planets in houses behave like actors on a stage, the *aspects* show how these planets/actor behave in a house

For a proper evaluation, we need to see your chart please?

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Old 10-08-2011, 02:05 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Quote:
Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
Hi, I'm intrigued by the most beneficial planet Jupiter, sitting in my 12th house. I read somewhere having this placement in your chart means "a guardian angel is there and saves you in the nick of time". Personally, its hard to say if this is true but it is a little comforting to know that. My Jupiter is in a retrograde motion so does that make a difference? What are your thoughts on this placement? Do you have this placement and believe in the "guardian angel" aspect? Thanks
Jupiter in 12th in what Sign? Is Jupiter ruler of 12th - if not then consider which house of your natal chart is ruled by Jupiter

When Jupiter is Retrograde it's time to find inner wisdom and expand internal knowledge, examine your own code of ethics and exercise your own integrity. Think about how much you do to *fit in* out of fear and what are truly your own goals and needs. Jupiter retrograde is when the things we think we need but aren't really adding to our growth, are somehow removed from our lives. The end result is beneficial and the quest to understand is the journey and the teaching. source: Artcharts astrology
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:38 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Yes,

this is a lucky, lucky placement. These people don't have the neurotic fear of life, and their spiritual, essential self is kind of lovingly supported by "angels"
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Old 10-09-2011, 01:19 AM
haileyscomet haileyscomet is offline
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

@ Jupiter... My Jupiter is in Leo. Cancer sits in my 12th house. I think having this placement has a lot to do with me having a very introverted personality. When times are very bleak, I always have this hope inside of me that everything will be okay. I believe that's my "guardian angel" working.

Last edited by haileyscomet; 10-09-2011 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 10-09-2011, 01:47 AM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

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Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
@ Jupiter... My Jupiter is in Leo. Cancer sits in my 12th house.
What you say is interesting haileyscomet because the house position of your Jupiter in Leo is dependent literally on the house system chosen to create your chart. To get a visual idea of this, on astro.com when you choose extended chart selection that brings you to a page on which there are more options including a choice from fourteen different house systems. Clicking on 'default' which is adjacent to 'House system' shows a popup menu of these most popular of the forty or more house systems in existence. By creating your chart in Whole Sign as well as other house systems you notice how Jupiter as well as other planets switch houses. And here is a link to a general article on a brief history of house systems http://www.librarising.com/astrology...ignhouses.html
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:14 AM
haileyscomet haileyscomet is offline
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

I never knew that and I don't know how to feel because that means everything in my Natal chart has changed which I'm not too pleased. This Whole Sign System seems more valid so it leaves me a bit confused.

Last edited by haileyscomet; 10-09-2011 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 10-09-2011, 02:35 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

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I never knew that and I don't know how to feel because that means everything in my Natal chart has changed which I'm not too pleased. This Whole Sign System seems more valid so it leaves me a bit confused.
Astrology is thousands of years old. Originally, house systems had different functions and astrologers used the appropriate house system for the appropriate reason. For example, Whole Sign was used for assessing topics and then Porphyry was used to assess strength or angularity. So then if a planet was angular using Porphyry but not angular using Whole Sign then that planet was more 'goaded to action' even if not in the first whole Sign house. In order to avoid understandable confusion, a person fairly new to astrology is likely to find it necessary to continually revise and re-arrange what is being learned and then to take time to thoroughly consider new information. You have only just discovered that the house position of your natal planets is entirely dependent on the chosen house system and you probably have many questions as to how this can be. Since similar questions are often asked on this forum there are usually many threads available where previous discussions can be studied - doing this helps with processing any new information.

So here's a link to the thread “Whole Sign or Placidus?” http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...t=39669&page=3 in which dr. farr has given us a detailed yet simple explanation as to how the meaning of the word 'cusp' changed and how this led to modern day misunderstandings regarding the way astrologers originally used the Whole Sign house system.

dr. farr tells us how the Whole Sign house system was originally used

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Cusps: Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword - so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point"; now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other. And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded! In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT - and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses - each house - that is the "cusp" of each house -is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:

-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century - this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something) For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign - it worked better (FOR ME) I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners - to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:31 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Quote:
this is a lucky, lucky placement. These people don't have the neurotic fear of life, and their spiritual, essential self is kind of lovingly supported by "angels"
I go along with this, totally. I have been one lucky woman and when I passed difficult times, I never lost hope, it was just as if I knew that all would be well again, and YES, it did and usually better than before. My Jupiter is in Scorpio and also retrograde. Pluto rules my Asc. and Jupiter and is placed in the 9th of life philosophy (and I do have my own view on life).

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Old 10-11-2011, 10:03 AM
haileyscomet haileyscomet is offline
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Some people say its bad to have Jupiter in this house let alone retrograde!! I didn't think it was that bad.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:29 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Haily, I think you posted the same sentence twice!
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:30 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Quote:
Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
Hi, I'm intrigued by the most beneficial planet Jupiter, sitting in my 12th house. I read somewhere having this placement in your chart means "a guardian angel is there and saves you in the nick of time". Personally, its hard to say if this is true but it is a little comforting to know that. My Jupiter is in a retrograde motion so does that make a difference? What are your thoughts on this placement? Do you have this placement and believe in the "guardian angel" aspect? Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
@ Jupiter... My Jupiter is in Leo. Cancer sits in my 12th house. I think having this placement has a lot to do with me having a very introverted personality. When times are very bleak, I always have this hope inside of me that everything will be okay. I believe that's my "guardian angel" working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
Some people say its bad to have Jupiter in this house let alone retrograde!! I didn't think it was that bad.
There are thousands of astrologers, all with different opinions, so take your time before making any final decisions haileyscomet - btw you say Cancer is the Sign on your 12th house cusp and that your natal Jupiter is Leo... so that could mean your Jupiter is in 1st House when using Whole Sign. Is that so?

1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses are angular and as such are places where planets gain additional strength or 'accidental dignity' by placement.

Your Leo Jupiter's dispositor is the Sun, so what are the Sign and house positions of your Sun? Also are there any aspects between your natal Sun and your natal Jupiter?
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Old 10-12-2011, 06:06 AM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Hindu astrologers have taught that Jupiter in the 12th indicates moksha (liberation) from the wheel of reincarnations, as being a possibility as a result of the current life time's activities...
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:46 AM
haileyscomet haileyscomet is offline
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Yes Jupiter does switch to my first house in Whole sign systems- thats a little nice
But to my understanding, its not right to mix Western Astrology with whole signs? Is that so. Ive been doing a little experimenting but I read this system is much more appropriate with Vedic Astrology. My Sun is in Pisces and sits in my seventh house. No aspects between my Natal Sun and Jupiter.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:03 AM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

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Originally Posted by haileyscomet View Post
Yes Jupiter does switch to my first house in Whole sign systems- thats a little nice
But to my understanding, its not right to mix Western Astrology with whole signs? Is that so. Ive been doing a little experimenting but I read this system is much more appropriate with Vedic Astrology. My Sun is in Pisces and sits in my seventh house. No aspects between my Natal Sun and Jupiter.
vedic is completely different to western astrology. whole signs is not vedic and can/is used for western astrology..

I use Equal House system (where each cusp is same as Ascendant) and am a modern astrologer. Lots of newcomers come into Astrology/forums and get a free chart from www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few others if you wish to experiment…..

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_house_system#Equal_House
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
For further research try here...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3280&highlight=placidus+equal
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=638&highlight=house+system
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=152849#post152849
http://www.astryoologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=189223#post189223

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:27 AM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Whole sign was the original system in ancient Western astrology, followed closely by Equal house. Quadrant house systems did not supplant whole sign until around the late 9th century AD, after which time whole sign became completely "lost" in Western astrology until "re-discovered" in the late 20th century.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:47 AM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Why Whole Signs?

1. The houses and signs work together. Therefore the Sun in the 11th would work like the Aquarian archetype. I regard the houses as our inner ecliptic. Then it really makes no odds which hemisphere you are in either!

2. Whole sign houses will very often put 12th house planets in the 1st which visually supports Gauquelin’s evidence.

3. The AC, MC etc, are seen as points. Therefore the MC is freed from being anchored to the 10th and can be read as having an 8th, 9th or 10th influence if it happens to fall there. Incidentally in Ancient times the 10th house was known as the house of the Goddess (9th was The God” house) which explains why the 10th is associated with the Mother. Even though paradoxically we think of Saturn’s house as being very fatherly, it’s the mother who is often the disciplinarian.

4. Whole sign houses work at high latitude.

5. It was the house system used while developing the Arabic parts.

6. Whole sign houses correspond to 12 months. Approx 29 days = Approx 30 degs.

7. The Signs do not fight with the Fixed stars because they are taken off the ecliptic ring and are contained within the house meanings.

So this re-evaluation really effects those with Stelliums in the 12th and 9th houses. If this applies to you, try the whole signs and see how this changes your chart and if it make more sense to you.

source: http://darkstarastrology.com/house-system-astrology/
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:02 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Jupiter sits in the 12th House, Libra for me, but direct in motion, and conjuncts the Fixed Star Spica at 3 degrees. Luckily Jupiter also conjuncts my Asc Point, even though it is found in the 1st House.

Don't know yet if Jupiter has been a guardian angel too me, but I do feel like I have been saved from certain things in my life very often.
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:15 PM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

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Jupiter sits in the 12th House, Libra for me, but direct in motion, and conjuncts the Fixed Star Spica at 3 degrees. Luckily Jupiter also conjuncts my Asc Point, even though it is found in the 1st House.

Don't know yet if Jupiter has been a guardian angel too me, but I do feel like I have been saved from certain things in my life very often.
for me that's far too wide. Fixed stars and midpoints need to be no more than 1.5 degree
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:02 AM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

Not too wide for me- Spica I mean: I follow Robson and use an up of longitudinal conjunction for 1st magnitude stars of 3 degrees, for 2nd and 3rd mags, 2 degrees, and for nebulae and 4th, 5th mag stars of 1 degree; midpoints, though (and also the Lots/Parts) I consider orbs of conjunction (or aspects) only to a maximum of 2 degrees.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:30 AM
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Why Whole Signs?

1. The houses and signs work together. Therefore the Sun in the 11th would work like the Aquarian archetype. I regard the houses as our inner ecliptic. Then it really makes no odds which hemisphere you are in either!

2. Whole sign houses will very often put 12th house planets in the 1st which visually supports Gauquelin’s evidence.

3. The AC, MC etc, are seen as points. Therefore the MC is freed from being anchored to the 10th and can be read as having an 8th, 9th or 10th influence if it happens to fall there. Incidentally in Ancient times the 10th house was known as the house of the Goddess (9th was The God” house) which explains why the 10th is associated with the Mother. Even though paradoxically we think of Saturn’s house as being very fatherly, it’s the mother who is often the disciplinarian.

4. Whole sign houses work at high latitude.

5. It was the house system used while developing the Arabic parts.

6. Whole sign houses correspond to 12 months. Approx 29 days = Approx 30 degs.

7. The Signs do not fight with the Fixed stars because they are taken off the ecliptic ring and are contained within the house meanings.

So this re-evaluation really effects those with Stelliums in the 12th and 9th houses. If this applies to you, try the whole signs and see how this changes your chart and if it make more sense to you.

source: http://darkstarastrology.com/house-system-astrology/
I'm from the northern latitude and originally started with Placidus like most European people (apart from the British) and 1st reading was a shock because my chart seemed totally off. Different house systems also give very different planetary placements because of distortion. I've gone back and forth between different systems, got frustrated, quit, started again and finally settled on the whole sign system which I have always felt was the right one, warts and all, it's accurate.

My husband has 12th house jupiter with whole sign and when a guy has hobbies like for example hurricane surfing a guardian angel comes handy. He has had many close calls but always miraculosly been ok in the end.

Last edited by Valis; 11-08-2011 at 04:32 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2011, 10:39 PM
powerion powerion is offline
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

I have this placement, one time leaving work I was waiting to pull out on to a busy road. Watching the only side cars were coming on for over a minute and after having a bad day was impatient. When I saw my opening I hit the gas, then looked to where I was turning, seeing an oldman had just slightly made it past my car when I could of hit him into on coming traffic. I was awakened and gave thanks and still do.
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2011, 05:00 AM
Quicksilver82 Quicksilver82 is offline
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Re: Jupiter in the 12th...guardian angel

I too have this placement and it's in the sign of Scorpio. I oftentimes feel that I do have a guardian angel. Everything that has ever happened that was really good for me happened in the final hour. I have a tendency to feel somewhat "invincible" at times, which can be dangerous.

Jupiter rules my 2nd house, so I suppose that's why the "good" things that manifest in the final hour are financial in nature .
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