could i have the wrong ascendent?

[desiredusername]

first thing, my proposed birth time is around 8 minutes apart from being Aquarius rising. not that it's too important, but for some reason i feel like i don't fit with Pisces rising. I have a conjunct moon with ascendent, which can explain my sensitivity to things, but oddly, i dont feel like i can relate easily to my rising sign according to my birth chart. on top of this, my face structure generally seems more rectangular more than narrow. i can see the relation, there is a slight taper to my chin, but come up to me on an average day and i would definitely fit the aquarius description. You know... i take it back.. there's NO WAY that im pisces rising...

i read up briefly on chart rectification, which stated that between two possible rising signs, the more dominant sign ruler in the chart would indicate the most plausible ascendent.

Planet: Position Aspects Total Rank Percent
Sun: 68.5 ( 1) + 14.7 ( 4) = 83.2 ( 2) / 11.7%
Moon: 58.5 ( 3) + 5.7 ( 9) = 64.2 ( 7) / 9.0%
Mercury: 45.0 ( 8) + 33.0 ( 2) = 78.0 ( 3) / 11.0%
Venus: 15.0 (12) + 10.1 ( 7) = 25.1 (11) / 3.5%
Mars: 62.5 ( 2) + 9.7 ( 8) = 72.2 ( 5) / 10.2%
Jupiter: 50.0 ( 6) + 38.9 ( 1) = 88.9 ( 1) / 12.5%
Saturn: 55.0 ( 5) + 0.5 (10) = 55.5 ( 9) / 7.8%
Uranus: 48.5 ( 7) + 24.9 ( 3) = 73.4 ( 4) / 10.3%
Neptune: 56.0 ( 4) + 12.2 ( 6) = 68.2 ( 6) / 9.6%
Pluto: 45.0 ( 9) + 12.5 ( 5) = 57.5 ( 8) / 8.1%
Chiron: 17.0 (11) + 0.0 (11) = 17.0 (12) / 2.4%
Node: 27.0 (10) + 0.0 (12) = 27.0 (10) / 3.8%
Total: 548.0 + 162.2 = 710.2 / 100.0%


Uranus has 4th rank compared to Neptune's 6th.

so for 1 - i fit the physical characteristics of this sign
2 - The description for Aquarius rising felt way more like home than pisces..
3 - Uranus has more strength in my chart.



thats it for my amateur investigation, i definitely feel more at home as an Aquarius rising, but whose to say for sure i guess.

[Inconjunct]

If you're going to use that method (and I have never seen it before, but that may be because I'm not that interested in chart rectification), then the strongest planet in your chart would seem to be Jupiter, ruler of Pisces.

Facial features are not a good guide to rising sign.

Now, apart from unreliable indicators like appearance and Pisces being a less "exciting" sign than Aquarius, why do you think your rising sign can't be Pisces? What do you think Pisces rising means?

[Culpeper]

I have not heard of the method you mention. Appearance is not very reliable for finding a rising sign. I have Gemini rising, and do not resemble the descriptions of Gemini at all. On the other hand my personality description fits Gemini very well.

Mercury the ruler of Gemini is in Pisces in the 10th house in my chart. My appearance resembles that of Pisces very closely. Finding rising signs by appearance is more complicated than the books indicate. But look at the sign where the ascendant ruler is located.

[desiredusername]

Originally Posted by Inconjunct

Now, apart from unreliable indicators like appearance and Pisces being a less "exciting" sign than Aquarius, why do you think your rising sign can't be Pisces? What do you think Pisces rising means?

i think that i fit the description of a pisces moon, especially that mine is conjunct the ascendent. despite the moons obvious power on my interactions among others, when comfortable in any given setting my rising will feel more aquarian.

Originally Posted by Culpeper

But look at the sign where the ascendant ruler is located.

both are in the Capricorn and in the 11th house.

on the other hand, i could perhaps be confusing mars and venus' energy as my ascendent sign. this is all however, merely speculation, and as i know i should be worring about other things however, a little important to me.

[astrologer50]

using solar arcs can be very effective in rectifying a chart, plus you can test the Asc and MC with quicker moving transits like mars and mercury.

4minutes real time usually suggests 1' on Asc. Do you identify with Aquarius rising? rather than pisces rising?

[desiredusername]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

4minutes real time usually suggests 1' on Asc. Do you identify with Aquarius rising? rather than pisces rising?

indeed. i dont feel like pisces fits my persona, as i already have a pisces moon to explain it's energies regardless. Aquarius feels much more natural, and comfortable. also, 4:23 would make myself aquarius, maybe being mistaken as 4:32

[Inconjunct]

4.32 is a very specific time. It's not like it's been rounded up or down to the nearest five minutes, it's very precise. What do you think Pisces rising means that makes it "not natural" to you?

[desiredusername]

Originally Posted by Inconjunct

4.32 is a very specific time. It's not like it's been rounded up or down to the nearest five minutes, it's very precise. What do you think Pisces rising means that makes it "not natural" to you?

i just think that it's possible that im not as sensitive as my chart indicates. i have many of the same characteristics in both descriptions. it's just that if i am aquarius rising, my pisces moon seems to over power it due to the conjunction. i relate less to "humble, transparent and sacrificial" than " outward-directed outside-in (centripetal) dynamic"

you're probably right, but i dont want to be this way. i would rather be a virgo rising, than 0' pisces moon conjunct pisces ascendant.. and as an Aries, no less.

[desiredusername]

so heres the strange thing

with three major events i used for delineating, venus had been within 4 degrees of a major house. (the 3rd, 7th, and 11th) so i subtracted the 3 from each of the house placements and averaged out came to 2.33.

my proposed ascendent was 2.33 pisces...

so am i zero degrees pisces ascendent? (or roughly so?)

[Inconjunct]

I think you are confusing yourself with all this. You have a precise birth time, unlike the majority of people, so just go with that. You have Pisces rising, and it isn't all about being sensitive and sacrificial.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by desiredusername

so heres the strange thing
with three major events i used for delineating, venus had been within 4 degrees of a major house. (the 3rd, 7th, and 11th) so i subtracted the 3 from each of the house placements and averaged out came to 2.33.
my proposed ascendent was 2.33 pisces...
so am i zero degrees pisces ascendent? (or roughly so?)

This is an interesting question desiredusername because it is possible your Ascendant is Aquarius rather than Pisces when the Equation of time is taken into account.

The equation of time has two causes:
1. The plane of the Earth's equator is inclined to the plane of the Earth's orbit around the Sun
2. The orbit of the Earth around the Sun is an ellipse and not a circle

If a sundial is used to determine the time it rapidly becomes apparent that it does not indicate the same time as clock time. The difference amounting to some 16 minutes at certain times of year. This difference is also seen as an asymmetry in the times of sunrise and sunset. It is called the Equation of Time. http://www.nmm.ac.uk/explore/astrono...uation-of-time

1. I have checked the Equation of Time Table and on March 24 the difference between time as read on a sundial and time as read on a watch or clock is 6.7 minutes which gives you a revised actual birth time of 04:25AM because was 6.7 minutes 'slow' in comparison with other days.

2. No matter how 'accurate' a time of birth appears, unsurprisingly when a child is being born medical staff are not standing around with writing implements poised over a piece of paper. Neither are they seated at a computer ready to type the exact time of birth. Therefore it is common sense that notes are written sometime after the birth has occurred. It is also common sense that the time is possibly estimated.

Also consider... what if the clock on which your time of birth is based was inaccurate by a few minutes? Whoever noted the time may have accurately written what they read on their watch or a clock on the wall just before they recorded your time of birth: however that does not mean that they wrote that time exactly when the cord was cut and/or you took your first breath because cord cutting and/or you taking a first breath would have occurred some time before you were weighed/washed/dressed and placed in your mother's arms. How many members of staff were in attendance at your birth?

Taking all these factors into account and after reading your own observations and opinions as well as noting that you have a very early ascendant – in my opinion, it is possible that you may well have an Aquarius ascendant.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by desiredusername

so heres the strange thing

with three major events i used for delineating, venus had been within 4 degrees of a major house. (the 3rd, 7th, and 11th) so i subtracted the 3 from each of the house placements and averaged out came to 2.33.

my proposed ascendent was 2.33 pisces...

so am i zero degrees pisces ascendent? (or roughly so?)

can you post the TWO charts for us to look at please?

I have found that pisces risers quite often have had a hard childhood and often feel misunderstood. Whereas Aquarius rising are great talkers, need freedom and independence. there is a big difference

Solar Arcs
Solar arcs are really simple, especially for beginners, just move the Angles, Asc, Desc, MC, IC 1' for each year of your life onto planets and vice versa. Not just used for rectification either. Under age 12 though these interpretations are directed towards family changes, maybe relocation, job changes, illnesses, additions to family etc. Another example is my Pluto is 28' Leo in 7th house and my Uranus is 3' Leo in same house to subtract these and you get age 25. That year my then husband and I had an almighty explosion (Uranus) and transformation (Pluto) of that marriage that started the demise and ultimate ending thereof....

Further research on solar arcs try these threads.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12024&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12958&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6691&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/rectification.html
http://www.frankstar.com/solararc.htm
http://thezodiac.com/arcs.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Comparing%20Transits%20and%20Solar%20Arcs%20II.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/solar_arc_directions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression
http://www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/...tification.pdf

Ascendant physical traits
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25131

Ascendant sign research
http://www.cafeastrology.com/risingsignsascendant.html
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-ascendant.htm
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/angles.html
http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/zodia_sign.htm
http://www.astrologyzine.com/what-are-rising-sign-traits.shtml
http://www.alwaysastrology.com/rising-signs.html
http://www.astrofaces.com/astrofaces/index.html
http://www.forrestastrology.com/Audio-and-Video/The-Ascendant-Workshop-MP3
http://www.starslikeyou.com.au/star-files/ascendant/aries.php
http://www.forrestastrology.com/General-Astrology/the-craft-of-chart-rectification
http://www.elbertwade.com/page79.html

You can listen to author Jodie Forrest here describe Ascendants and planets in first house, even buy her audio on the subject
Just briefly, according to member Kannon [Cardinal signs are more rounded. Fixed signs are rectangular or blocky. Mutable signs are longish or narrow]
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28315
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38516
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25131

In your other thread you seems to identify *very strongly* with transiting chiron conj Asc, so why do you want or feel the need to change it??

[desiredusername]

the reason why is that both of the descriptions fit me, also, chiron is conjuncting my moon, which would still be in close conjunction with this new supposed ascendent if well qualified to be so as JUPITERASC mentioned.

and here are the two charts, before i dose off to sleep!

here are two of the charts; mother's death, and the transitioning to a different school. i have one other, if you need it.

[Kannon]

desiredusername, Yes, you do have the wrong Asc shown on your chart.

These two charts cannot both fit you. Your lack of clarity has to do with the Moon in Pisces in your chart being the recipient of transit(s), and possibly an interception of the sign of Pisces in the 1st house, which adds its qualities to your overall personality. Your correct Asc is not in Pisces. It could be in Aquarius (0 or 26*) or Capricorn (9*), but here was no Asc in early Pisces possible for your date and location of birth, no matter what your recorded time of birth says. Some here will dispute this, but they do not have access to the information, knowledge or experience that I have in chart rectification and validation. Take this from a world class chart rectifier. With the two events posted here I may have enough to give you a definitive answer when I have time in the next several days or so.

Is it correct that your mother's death is shown in the chart with transits for 13 May 2000?
And transferring to a different school 7 Sept 2006?

[desiredusername]

100% sure regarding my mother

90% sure regarding school.

thank you, sir. it is much appreciated. also, my dad was aware that i was born around 2:45, to my knowledge this would have made me capricorn rising.

[Kannon]

Looks like I've got the right Asc, but to be sure we'll need another life event of some kind. Think of anything, especially body related, an injury, accident, etc... or whatever else that stands out to you.

Once I've got it, I'll post the relevant charts with proofs.

[desiredusername]

Nov. 14th 2008 - self harm

[Kannon]

Thank you. That should be enough. I'm already sure of your correct Asc, but I'd prefer to add this event so its especially certain for you and anybody else who wants to observe and learn from this. Get back soon as I can with the results.

[C0rnholio]

desiredusername, think a little about your Descendant too. If you are like a Virgo in personal relationships then you have a Pisces Ascendant. If you are like a Leo then you have an Aquarius Ascendant. I hope you've had a few personal relationships already, at your 21 years of age. It's pretty black and white, if you ask me. Additionally, since the rulers of your Descendant are conjunct in the same house, sign, and share the same aspects it should be pretty easy to figure out what your Descendant is.

[Lion o ness]

Also think about your childhood... Im a pisces Asc, with Gem on the IC, and I moved around ALOT as a child..

Also Kannon rectified my chart.. He's great and did a wonderful job... I suggest taking his opinion..

My birth time was estimated, my Asc according to my birth certificate is 0 Aries.. But I knew that just didnt fit me.. My whole chart changed when Kannon rectified it

[desiredusername]

nothing to see here

[C0rnholio]

Originally Posted by desiredusername

no i haven't. it's all a little too confusing for me, and unfortunately, haven't found the effort rewarding in my case.. call it low self-esteem, it isn't very black and white for me. after all, i am posting on an astrology forum...... i guess you could say at my 21 years of age, i've just been trying to center myself and keep my cool. it's all too easy to be disappointed with people. whatever said adverse side effects may be..

Well, then chart rectification with Solar Arcs, or other methods, is the way to go. Sounds like your both Mars and Venus are in the 12th house. Something interesting must have happened in your life when they came out, if they came out already.

[desiredusername]

Originally Posted by C0rnholio

Well, then chart rectification with Solar Arcs, or other methods, is the way to go. Sounds like your both Mars and Venus are in the 12th house. Something interesting must have happened in your life when they came out, if they came out already.

i cant recall anything.. but what would you mean?

[C0rnholio]

How to rectify birth time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0G2S2Ti4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYMX9X2C1BQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNaFiCBvNk4

[desiredusername]

i can see see myself being either or.